Here's a pic of my buddy's bull from the year before last. His face is scribbled on to maintain his privacy and because he's better looking than me so scribbling on his face is enjoyable.
In truth, my contribution to the killing of this bull amounted to a short period of pathetic cow calling while sweeping around behind and above my buddy. I am sure that any truly effective calling came from my other buddy.
The shooter belly crawled a good sixty yards to get within range and shot from his knees behind a 2 1/2 ft tall scrub pine.
However, I am on the bandwagon claiming that we served this bull up on a platter so that the shooter had only to avoid dropping the ball.
Maybe Les and Mike can address some calling/moving set ups or scenarios and decoys that they use?
I proudly and happily hauled out that load of meat with my Martian head.
Usually a bull will hang up when he hits an opening or if he's already in the opening he'll look across the opening and if he doesn't see the elk he expects to see, most of the time he won't come to the calls.
With that in mind, we try to get around or across to the bull's side of the opening/meadow before we set up and call.
Also, we try to be on roughly the same elevation as a bull that we are calling to, but that's sometimes easier said than done. Bulls like to come in from the same elevation or from slightly above when they come in. When you're on the same elevation as the bull, it makes it easier to adjust higher or lower to keep the thermals in your favor.
Some people say that you can't call a bull uphill because they feel vulnerable if they are coming to a bugle and the other bull/caller is above them. Les and I have both called bulls uphill and killed them so I'm not sure how much truth there is to that. It could be that a bull is less likely to come uphill to a bugle than they are to a cow call, but I'm not sure.
When you set up with a caller and shooter, the caller should be off to the side enough so when the bull approaches the caller he passes on the upwind side of the shooter. This can be tricky at times when you have both thermals and wind to deal with.
I know Primos says the caller should be at least 100 yards behind the shooter but it's also nice if the caller can see the shooter because they may have to adjust to get the bull to come to the right spot. Hand signals come in handy for telling the caller to move. Being 100 yards back might be more important in the kind of open country where Primos usually hunts but for the thicker timber I don't think you need to be as far back.
I've seen some guys post things on the Bowsite like "we heard a lot of bugling but they just wouldn't come out of the timber". I think glassing open areas has it's place for locating elk, but the vast majority of the elk I have killed have been in the thick timber and the shots were at typical whitetail distances. Instead of trying to pull them out of the timber you need to go in after them.
Another thing that has worked well for us is to call right below or above the lip of a bench. I killed my biggest bull by calling just below the bench. The elk were close but couldn't see us because they were above us and far enough back on the bench that they couldn't see down the mountainside. The bull came to the edge and looked down and then committed to come over the edge and I shot him at 19 yards.
In a similar situation we got into some elk and had a couple different bulls bugling. Les was shooter and I was caller and we had a bull coming up hill to us. I moved up above Les and just over the lip of a small bench. The bull could hear me calling and moving around and making noise but he couldn't see me because he was below the bench. That tactic pulled the bull right into Les's lap and his shot was something like 6 yards.
An hour or so later while we were cutting up Les's bull, another bull bugled from a couple hundred yards below us. We were tagged out so I decided to play with him a little and made a few cow calls. He charged up the hill on a string and the attached photo is a still frame from the video I shot as he came within 12 yards of us. We were hanging the quarters from Les's bull on a log while we were working on it. We sat down next to the log as the bull came in and one of the legs from Les's bull is in the photo. This was another bull that we called uphill and could have easily killed.
Cheesehead Mike's Link
They give out 2 NR tags per year. One goes to the max point holder and the other is drawn at random. Since the max point pool is already at 21, I have to rely on being THEE ONE out of 350+ applicants to draw it......but someone has to get it, right????
Mike that bull that you called in looked real big. Great memory for sure
Everything stated above is what I do on a backpack style hunt. If you're hunting from the truck you can have the luxury of a camp shower, washing clothes, boot dryer, etc.
When you’re hunting out of a spike camp you’re going to have minimal clothes with you and they get dirty and stinky. You’ll spill food on them, sweat in them, maybe get blood on them and possibly sleep in them. You might wear the same clothes for days (except underwear) and you might not get to clean up because it’s too cold, rainy, etc. Some days you’re going full-speed all day and when you get back to your tent you’re exhausted, it’s getting cold out and all you want to do is get something to eat and crawl into your sleeping bag. I try to always pick a time during the warm part of the day to clean up but it doesn’t always happen.
As Les pointed out, merino wool really helps cut down on odors because it has natural odor fighters in it but the elk will still smell you.
You’ll get used to it and not realize how much you stink until you get home and wash the clothes that you wore for several days.
A few years ago I bought one of those shower enclosures on sale at Cabela’s. We had a base camp hunt a couple years ago and used it with a solar shower with water heated by the sun or on the camp stove and we thought we were in heaven!
Keep your undercarriage clean!
I also keep a zodi outback in the truck and string up a tarp or two for a wind or rain block. It's amazing what a hot shower can do to lift your spirit on a tough hunt. I don't worry about using scent free soap. You're going to stink no matter what on a backcountry hunt.
I don't check in to the WI forum often but glad I did, best thread here in a long time.
I am a fan of baby wipes. I sleep better and feel sneakier when I am not super slimed.
I don't think that I'm going to fool the nose of any elk or deer, but use scent free deodorant. I feel more confident when I'm not overpowered by my own stink.
I didn't have enough hose to replace all of them and wasn't willing to be thwarted.
I used some shine line that I had with a tab of paracord tied to the end like a bore snake. Some hot water, a little bleach and a few passes and some rinsing and the hoses look like new.
Now's a good time to check your hydration bladders and hoses especially if you have kids or other people in your household who may have used them and not dried them out properly.
I sometimes fill my bladder and hose with bleach water and let it soak to get the funk out.
I normally don't drink anything but pure water out of my hydration tube so it doesn't get as funky as if you drink Gatorade or some other drink mix out of it.
After driving from Montana to Colorado we set up a spike camp and start hunting in some beautiful familiar country.
One thing for newbies to remember is to follow small streams up the mountainside because you'll often find one or more wallows.
We ended up having kind of a stand off and I nearly got a shot. He slowly walked off and I made some cow calls. He started to come back and made the nervous bark sound. I made the same sound back and he came closer and then walked off again. We continued the cat and mouse game a few times until he had enough and finally left.
Sounds like you hunt wallows fairly frequently. Are you guys hunting earlier season with warmer temperatures? And are you hunting wallows mainly on still, bluebird, high pressure days? It seems like most wallows I have come across are located in spots with really squirrelly winds.
Intercept the elk on their way to the wallow? What kind of strategy do you find yourself employing most frequently around wallows?
No, we typically hunt later in the season like from September 10th on. We really don’t actually hunt wallows all that much. I sit and watch them occasionally but I’m usually too impatient while elk hunting to sit and watch a wallow for any length of time. I spend so much time sitting still in a treestand hunting whitetails that I don’t really want to sit still while elk hunting. I’d rather run and gun and chase bugles which is something we don’t get to do while hunting whitetails. I believe that if a guy brought in a treestand and sat every day on some of the active wallows we have found that you could probably kill a bull every year but that is not how I want to hunt.
I agree that wallows can be in areas with squirrelly winds and often the winds or at least the thermals will be more consistent around the wallows in steeper areas like those last wallow photos I posted.
I look at wallows more like they are good sign that bulls were there and they may return and that wallows are often in areas of heavy elk activity. I may not hunt directly on the wallow but it’s good to know where they are when you’re hunting the general area because there’s a good chance that elk will be nearby or passing through at some point. I plan my daily hunts to pass through areas with known wallows.
One of the best wallows I ever found (which I posted a photo of on the original thread) was found while I was dogging a herd of elk with multiple bugling bulls late in the morning as they appeared to be getting ready to bed. I was keeping visual contact with multiple elk and trying not to get busted as I moved in. I had a 10-yard face to face standoff with a fired up bull (no shot) while up ahead I could hear elk splashing like crazy. I eventually made my way to where I heard the splashing and found the big wallow. As I stood next to the wallow I made few calls and the 330” herd bull came crashing by me at 20 yards but in my excitement I forgot to stop him for the shot. That was one of my most exciting days of elk hunting. A couple days later I hunted my way past that wallow again, stopped and made some calls and shot a bull that came in on a string. I remembered to stop this one with a cow mew that I made with my voice. That’s also the same area where Les killed the bull that he told the story about on the original thread. I also have a friend from Texas who coincidently hunts the same area and has had a lot of action centered around that wallow. The point is that a wallow might not always be the best spot to focus due to squirrelly winds, etc. but wallows are often in good elk areas.
Another thing for some of the rookie elk hunters to keep in mind about wallows is that they’re kind of like whitetail scrapes. The wallows you find out in wide open meadows near the lower third of the mountain are most likely not used during shooting hours kind of like the whitetail scrapes that are on the edges of big cornfields, etc. that are not visited that much during shooting hours. The wallows high up on the mountain and/or in thicker timber are more likely to be used during shooting hours. I think the elk feel more secure in the timber and higher up on the mountain and as a rule, you’ll have more elk activity early in the afternoon and later in the morning higher up on the mountain because you are closer to their bedding areas. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Although we don’t spend a lot of time actually hunting on wallows, Les spent some time last year watching a big wallow and had some exciting experiences. Maybe he’ll share the story…
After getting home from work last night, I was putting away the bladders and continuing my organizational attempts. I have at least a canister or two of extra milk weed floss harvested this fall if someone could use some.
Whether you hunt them or not, I believe active wallows are a good indicator of bulls in the area. In my experience bulls will wallow during any week of the rut. I don't think it's limited only to the warm periods because most wallowing has nothing to do with cooling off. It's more of a rut behavior and rutting bulls love to get muddy and stinky.
On the flip side of that, if I'm hunting an area and none of the wallows are active it's going to lead me to believe that there are very few elk in the area. I'm definitely going to take that into consideration when trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
We were actually working a bugling bull, Les was staying back and calling and I was trying to move in on the bull as he called. I came across these wallows while I was moving forward and I snapped a quick photo and stored them in my GPS.
I'm kind of leery when crossing those rock fields. I can't help thinking about how all of those rocks ended up there and the fact that new ones have to join them from time to time.
I'm digging your pics. Please keep them coming!
How many miles a day would you say you are walking when already in a spike camp? Obviously this would depend on encounters.
Also, if in spike camp and not seeing/hearing elk and no sign. Do you give it 1 day then pack up to find the better sign? Or what's the estimated time frame for an area?
Loving the pics Mike!
Grunter,
Yes, you hit the nail on the head; it all depends on encounters. The goal of establishing a spike camp is to reduce the amount of unproductive ground you have to cover and be able to start hunting basically as soon as you leave your tent in the morning.
Some days we might only range out 1-2 miles from our spike camp and spend most of our time still-hunting and doing calling set-ups in areas that we know are good from past experience.
Other days we might put on 7 miles or more if we're venturing out and checking out new country like we did in those photos above.
Regardless of the miles we put on, it's almost 100% cross-country. You'll notice that very few of our photos are taken on pack trails. 7 miles cross-country in mountainous terrain is a lot of work and my legs are often like rubber when I get back to my tent at night. My Ironman friend Les is in better shape but I'm pretty sure he gets tired at times too.
Another tip for rookie elk hunters is to get off of the pack trails. They're convenient for getting from point A to point B quickly but it's amazing how much the elk sign and action can improve just by getting off and staying away from pack trails. In my opinion you should not be hunting on or near pack trails.
In regard to how long we stay in an area, that depends on how far in it is and past experience in the area. Most of the time if you're going to pack in with a heavy pack far enough to get away from most hunters it's going to take a minimum of 4 hours. If you're going to commit that much time to packing in you want to give the area a decent chance but you also don't want to waste time in an unproductive area. It's one of the hardest decisions in elk hunting and it's easy to fall into the "grass is greener on the other side of he mountain" syndrome.
As a rule of thumb, when checking out a new area, we'll generally pack in with the food in our pockets for the day and maybe an extra Mountain house dinner for that day and then 3 additional days worth of food in our pack. That way we can hunt the rest of that day plus 3 days and pack out on the 5th day (eating whatever scraps we have leftover) or blast out with an empty pack and restock with food and clean clothes.
If we're going into an area that we expect to be good from past experience we'll generally pack in 7-8 days worth of food plus the food in our pockets and we can usually stretch that another day or so. We hate to do it but there have been several times that we have packed out uneaten food. There are also times that we have run out and wished we had more. Generally though, if it's a good area we will kill a bull before we run out of food and we'll be heading back to the truck with a load of meat.
I want to add info where I've personally found things helpful and I feel it's solid advice or options, but I defer to the experience of Mike, Les and others on this site.
The two common personality traits of the consistently successful DIY elk hunters I know are...
1) Confidence in their ability to handle any hardship a mountain hunt can present.
2) They're good at being alone.
What I mean by "good at being alone" is they do not let the thoughts of what is being missed from their day to day lives become a distraction. When a hunt gets tough, thinking about work obligations or family can be enough for some to use as a reason to go home. This year will be my 18th season hunting elk and I am challenged with being good at being alone every year.
"Another tip for a new elk hunter is you don't have to live in elk country to be a good elk hunter. Mike & Les are ringing endorsements for that statement. The two common personality traits of the consistently successful DIY elk hunters I know are...
1) Confidence in their ability to handle any hardship a mountain hunt can present.
2) They're good at being alone.
What I mean by "good at being alone" is they do not let the thoughts of what is being missed from their day to day lives become a distraction. When a hunt gets tough, thinking about work obligations or family can be enough for some to use as a reason to go home. This year will be my 18th season hunting elk and I am challenged with being good at being alone every year."
^^^^^^^Very much spot on.
The last day of my hunt this past fall, my buddy and I were taking a mid-day siesta and ended up discussing some family issues he was having and the conversation turned to the hurdles that I'm trying to overcome. I allowed all of the hassles and pressures to flood back into my head. I was mulling what I had to face upon my return home and for the next year.
I didn't have my head in the game and moved out of a key position during that evening's hunt. If I had remained focused and thinking critically, I probably would have had a Cinderella shot opportunity on a nice bull in the last half hour of our hunt.
Save the thoughts of obligations and strategies for the drive home.
I for one, love people, but when I hunt, I want to be alone......
my deceased sister once asked me, "aren't you lonely, I said I am alone but never lonely,,,,,
one of the reasons, I chose my place in the UP,,,,,,
I would like to have someone to go out west with,, but most do not have the time, that I would go.......
someone said to me, I can do about 10days, I say no thanks,,,, too far in driving for me to hunt just 10days......
YZF-88's Link
I did most of this hunt on my own. It was tough at first but really started to like the solitude. However, no doubt having a caller helped in the end though. My buddy took time off work to drive down and help just as the season ended. Then I had another buddy that I met through a hunting site drive down to help pack it out. Can't beat friends like that.
Has anyone ever founds elk or mulie sheds while in Colorado going otc? If so I'd love to see some pics.
Always ready to hear more stories about the hunt or things you've learned so I don't make the same mistake.
Congrats on the Breaks tag arrow, have you hunted there before? I was there in 2001 on 9/11 and it was really weird not knowing what was going on and just being able to get bits and pieces on staticy AM radio until my buddy got cell reception and called his wife. Sorry about your grandson...
I found the Muley shed and it's about 87" if I remember correctly.
A little time in Elk country will give you the chance to reflect on those cherished moments you had with your grandson. It'll be good for your soul.
I'm hoping for a good news email from NM game & fish today. I've had a good run with beating the odds and drawing NM tags by putting in for less desirable units. The worst NM tag can still be a pretty good hunt in my opinion.
My plan from now on is to save vacation for the last week of September when most folks have burnt out and gone home (especially if the weather is crappy).
Thanks goodness for Wisconsin NR turkey system. Getting to be the only place I can draw a tag!
I want to be able to have the time to meet up with them and give them a hand. I'm hoping that they'll put me to work packing out some beastly loads.
The scouting is rolling along in earnest.
Congrats on your 1st choice tag GG! Good luck.
Let's keep this conversation rolling. I appreciate these positive threads.
YZF-88, you're lucky to live in a state where you can buy an elk tag! I'm building some Utah points so one of these days my WI plates will be at one of those UT trailheads.
Zim1, I feel your pain! I drew NM 3 years in a row several years ago but haven't drawn since.
GreenGenie, congrats on the tag! I'll be looking forward to hearing about your hunt.
Elkaddict and I didn't draw New Mexico. We had already drawn a Wyoming General tag for this year so we only put in for long shot units in NM. Now that the NM draw is complete we can focus on researching WY.
My girlfriend and I are talking about taking a road trip this summer and spending a few days looking over some elk country in WY and then heading down to Grand Junction, CO to visit her dad.
When I get a little more time I'll post the story of my first elk hunt and what got me addicted...
The snow is starting to back off. Almost time for a road trip to check things out in the high country. Might even buy a bear tag on the way up there. Won't be too long and the elk will be sporting some velvet like this guy in July.
I am planning on taking this guy to Colorado for his first elk hunt during the opening week. He's been shooting a lot getting ready, making lots of progress. I called this one in for him this morning about 6:00. My dad, myself, and Hunter all have tags this week, this was a bird my dad found on Wednesday morning and didn't get to come in......with the kid along this morning Dad was there but wanted no part of shooting it :) I think someone owes grandpa breakfast.
Once I was hunting 10 miles deep into some forest service land in western Wyoming and stumbled on an outfitter's camp. Middle of nowhere. Their cook saw me wet & cold and invited me to dry off by their fire and eat chili. Got to chatting and turned out she used to live and work in Elk Grove Village!
Don't tell anyone that when I'm watching them, I'm paying attention to shot angles.
I do that at the zoo too.
I'll turn 56 while I'm elk hunting this year... hopefully I have at least another 10 years of elk hunting ahead of me...
>>>--arrow1-->'s Link
This is my first trip out west elk hunting, I'm hoping to get enough decent pictures to do a story when we get back with everything that was involved.
We still need to get together and have a couple cold ones and talk "elk" before the summer slips away...
GreenGenie's Link
