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Here is my plan:

- Had some dozer work this winter and am waiting for a return trip to clean out more stumps and to expose more soil and level it. This is for 2 different plots.

- Cut a bunch of cedars out of around a 10,000sf spot and raked it out. Laid 200#s of pelletized lime and 50#s of triple 19 fertilizer. In a couple of weeks, I'll be renting a tiller and will hit that area again and lay the same amount of lime and fertilizer again. I will then plant a spring plot of the Soil Builder Mix from nutritionist's company (he is a sponsor here and I attached his link). Come August, I will over seed that area with his Fall Draw mix.

- I am hoping to get my forester to do the two plot areas being cleared by the dozer. One is around 1/2 acre and the other is another +/- 10,000sf smallish area. I did a soil test last year in the 1/2 acre area and as expected, the soil needs work (results are below). I would expect the forester to lay around 2-3 tons of lime per acre and probably 400#s of triple 19 per acre. I plan both to be fall plots with a mix of winter rye, winter peas, and a rape/brassica mix. I'd be safest in year one with buckwheat and a sweetener like peas and rye for soil purposes but I think we'll wing it and see how it goes assuming the lime/fertilizer and weed killing goes well.

- I am also further clearing a many decade old logging trail that was overgrown with tag alders and probably has over 1000 cedar tree parts laid down by the loggers. My son and I opened it up decent last year (he shot a 6pt from that trail) and this year we're tackling it more trying to make it wider and clear the trees from the ground. We took out another couple dozen cedars 2 weeks ago from there. I am going to take a flier and plant some of nutritionist's Logging Trail Mix along with Birdsfoot Trefoil and Sweet grass. I will lay some lime and triple 19 but this one is a wing and a prayer. I will first spray the area with a Garlon4/diesel mix to kill all the cut tag alders.

I am in the same boat as you with a sandy loom soil but I was OK with the first soil test. The soil ph was 6.2 (better than I thought), the Phosphorus (P) was 5 which is low, the Potassium (K) was 23 which is very low, the Calcium (Ca) was at 993 which is right at adequate, and the Magnesium (Mg) was at 147 which is adequate.

I expect it to take me a couple/few years to get the soil really good. I just know that any form of food, outside of the Michigan's famous golden kernel, will be a huge differentiator on my land. I know none of the neighbors have plots. We did have deer on the land and killed 2 bucks and I have no idea why they were there from a food perspective. My son and I cut down loads of trees and opened up lots of areas for growth and I am assuming that growth attracted some deer in my very old cedar forest.

So, in conclusion, I can't give you a definitive answer but am telling you my plans and my forester feels the plan should work. I’ll probably tweak the fertilizer types and ratios to follow the soil sample closer. We shall see. I did get a Forest Stewardship Plan written for me and am using the same forester for the food plot work. I have loads of work ahead of me. This is a marathon and not a sprint...

I have a lot to learn in this arena, but it has been fun learning this far. I can't wait to see the fruits of my labor.

It would be great if others with more experience piped in. I always post my questions on the Big Game forum or pm/email nutritionist directly.

Here's an early spring photo of the rye in the second year before switching to buckwheat after tilling in late May. This picture was taken from the back door.

The pics are prior to tilling.

I will be broadcast seeding Grandpa Ray's Fall Draw into this in August. I will also add another 50#s of triple 19 fertilizer.

I have put down 400# of pelletized lime and will fertilize when I plant. I will be adding more lime too. This one is a shot on the dark because I can't use any equipment in here. I rented a tiller for the other in-the-woods plot but everything else in there was done by hand too. This one will require planting on a rainy day to get the seed through the dead foliage to the soil.

I have another similar sized clearing I need to get into and with my brush hog max.......to prep for next year.........

I hate bait, I hate food plots, its not natural, but I am the extreme,,,,,, the deer only need a forest, that is managed well

I had a forestry survey done.......and they recommended clear cutting half of my land to regenerate the aspen...........but Geeze..... I don't know if I'm ready to do that........

Big Bear, I had 21 semi's of pine chips taken from my place, made two 4 acres fields and then left two small areas natural. those two areas are so thick with cherry, white oak and maples trees you cannot hardly walk thru them. The birds and other animals did all the work for me in those areas. I would recommend having your place looked at and logged.

my wife thought our cabin would look like the moon, she was surprised, at this moment, you can hardly tell it was even cut......

forest are meant to be cut,,,,,,, all the hardwood and spruce were left, and it looks great, the grouse sure like it, I can tell you that

I don't have a lot of mature hardwood....But there are some young maples in open areas (Which are few)....

Worst case, I now have 3 areas worked up that can be improved in future years to help the deer herd.

I now have to prep it but have an issue. His heavy machinery really mucked up my one and only trail and now I can't get an ATV to the plot area (or beyond). I am now waiting on him to do some buildups for me. It is going to put me in a pickle but I can improve and seed into early Sept as I will be planting winter rye, red clover, Austrian winter peas, oats, and radishes.

Again, I don't expect much luck this year but the organic matter should help for next year and beyond. If I do get this done, I will have gone from 0 to 4 plots in one year on really crappy cedar swamp. I know none of the neighbors have land improvements and simply use the golden kernel which is the standard in MI, at least the UP.

These improvements have exceeded my Land Stewardship plan. I plan to add some apple and pear trees next year while continuing with soil amendments until I get them right.

There is a reason I got this land for the price per acre I did. I had no idea what I was up against. Note to self - never buy land in the winter because it is not representative of what you are getting - and, don't rush into it due to the price because you get what you pay for.

Luckily, there were plenty of deer on the land and they were there all season long with many new ones showing up during the rut.

We tilled it and tested the soil.... The PH was low 2 years ago at 4.7...... I added about 750 pounds of lime over the last 2 years......

My question is,,,,, how do I get the ferns from coming back every year ?? We just went up there and weed whipped the ferns down and then planted rye and clover and then hit the whole plot with "Plot Max" fertilizer.....

I'm sure that at least the rye will grow.......But the ferns will be back next year..... HOW DO I KILL THEM ?? Last year I hit the whole plot with roundup before I started.

I have another similar clearing on my land that I want to put a plot in.... But the ferns are a lot of work to get rid of. I cant get a tractor back in there...... HELP !!

Also..... I'm thinking about putting down some manure next year...... Good idea or bad ??

I believe another option is to get it all killed with a spraying in the spring when growth starts and then plant buckwheat and clover for a spring/summer crop as that helps prevent weed growth according to everything I have learned. I plan to do that with one of new plots next spring. I will till that under in August for green manure and then plant the fall plot. I am doing it for seed suppression, green manure for soil improvement, as well as providing some spring and summer food.

I'm no expert by any means. I've been well read and have asked loads of questions. I've received lots of advice from John Obrien from Grandpa Ray Seeds who is a sponsor here. I now have 4 plots, all created this year, and I have very little weed growth. I made one of them a spring/summer plot with triticale, clover, and peas and that inhibited any weed growth. That plot is the 1st one in this thread with the growth. I have broadcast in some brassicas, rye, and oats for fall and winter.

Bear: I looked for info on killing poison ivy around cabin and found the a mixture of Epson salts, vinegar and dawn dish soap would kill everything it is sprayed on. I havent tried it yet but that mixture may help you out. Just google for info.

I planted my 7 smaller plots Monday. They are smaller, maybe 50' by 50' but close to my hunting blinds. I planted turnip, rape,buckwheat, rye.

BB, don't be afraid to go stronger on the Gly. I believe most recommend 3 ounces of Gly per gallon of water but the guy at the local feed store in Esky where I bought 2.5 gallons of Gly told me to use 6 ounces given what I was doing. You are right on the purpose of the AMS and how it interacts with the Gly. I bought 2 gallons of that in liquid form.

I do believe that if you only do a fall plot, you'll get weeds and ferns back the following year and will need to spray it all down before planting again. That is why many people have a spring/summer plot of buckwheat and/or grains (or carryover from fall with winter rye or winter wheat and clover that you leave until fall). That type of plot helps to suppress weed growth.

I was back at camp yesterday and was very surprised to see all the growth that started on the new plot we planted last Saturday. Esky only had a dribble of rain during the week, so we were shocked to see any growth at all. They got some good rain last night and it should rain well today. All of my plots are in dire need of rain. The deer are really eating down what is growing though. I was amazed at what is in the seclusion cage versus on the ground in my plot that was cleared in the woods that has all the stumps. Lots of deer in there on the camera. I really like that idea of the seclusion cages that I learned from QDMA.

If they sell liquid Ammonium Sulfate I will change to that... The powdered form clogged up my hand held 3 gallon sprayer after a little use.....

I don't understand how Ammonium Sulfate makes the Roundup more effective..... The Ammonium Sulfate package says it is used to promote plant growth............. But I guess I don't need to know HOW it makes the Roundup more effective........only that it does.

I was talked into the liquid form of AMS due to the powder needing to be dissolved very well to not clog the nozzle. I bought a 2 gallon bottle which will last my life time. One only uses like 2 ounces per 4 gallons of water (I use a 4gallon backpack sprayer). I use it because it was recommended by many on QDMA as well as from Nutritionist and others on this site.

BTW, I bought a generic version of 41% Gly from the feed/seed store in Esky and it worked great and was much cheaper than Roundup.

Look at the seclusion cage of this 1st pic. I did not expect good growth here due to trying to make it brassicas only when it needed a soil builder and not timing it around a rain. But, there is growth in the seclusion cage (remember, I am a rookie in plotting.) However, the deer are not letting anything else grow.

I will be planting 4 apple trees in this location next year along with clover and buckwheat in the spring to be followed up by the Lickcreek mix for a fall planting.

The crows also get a lot of seed when you just broadcast it versus tilling it in. Next year, I'll have all the thatch to cover the seed. I don't want to till it due to the sandy nature of the soil. I don't want to lose the organic matter I'm building.

I added more winter rye to all the plots this weekend along with urea.

We have a handful of button bucks, spikes, and forks, but few 6s and 8s at this time. Last year, the bucks really didn't show up until the rut and then we had a constant influx of new ones probably due to all the ladies we have. We killed 2 bucks during the rut last year.

I felt all along that any food plots in our terrible cedar swamp would be a differentiator because we know the neighbors all thrive on the UP's Golden Kernel. We appear to have drawn deer from all around us. Unfortunately, my plots are too small to feed them all and I am very limited on areas I can plant as well as the size. Our goal next year is to try to expand our existing plots and maybe find an area to add a 5th one.

Last year, we took the 2 bucks and let all the does live even though my son and I each had antlerless tags and could easily have filled the tags. This year, I believe we need to take a couple of does off the landscape to help close the buck/doe ratio. We each have an antlerless tag this year too and I would love for our other youth hunter to kill a doe too.

I always thought that plots in my crappy land would be differentiators and when I see 9 deer in one at 3:30pm it makes me know that is true. We didn't have nearly the amount of deer last year that we have this year. We also have more and bigger bucks showing up than last year when we only saw 2 8pts. I am hoping for more during the rut too which is when the 2 8pts showed up last year. Looking forward to making it all bigger and better next year. Now I need my son to kill a couple.

I buy a lot of my seeds from Grandpa Rays Outdoors. John O'Brien is a sponsor of this site and he goes by the name nutritionist here. He has lots of great mixes that worked well for me. I copied in the link to his site. His Fall Draw and Frosty Delight mixes are what I used in regard to brassicas. I used the Logging Trail Mix and Soil Builder in other areas and got excellent growth other than the deer did not allow stuff to grow well.

I bought other seeds like winter rye, oats, and Austrian winter peas from the coop in Escanaba. My bigger plot is a mix of Fall Draw and those other seeds as well as some extra radish mixed in.