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Garlon4 Usage

For those who have used Garlon4 with diesel to kill buckthorn, tag alders, etc, is the mixture 4-1 of diesel and Garlon4?

Also, will the Garlon4 kill surrounding grasses and weeds of should some Gly be added to the mixture to cover them?

Thanks in advance!

Many use 4-1 mix. I have had excellent success with 5-1. Someone posted here once that they use 6-1 which is why I diluted my dose to 5-1. I also use an ultra low volume sprayer so I am not applying a whole lot except on stuff over say 3" diameter.

Not sure about the weed kill, I have not really paid attention to that but I did spray some on quack grass intentionally once and did not kill it.

It does not do the job on grass. I would not mix Gly unless the label says it is OK. Read the directions and be safe!

4-1 has worked fine for us. Like Jeff, never paid any attention to surrounding grasses.

Garlon 4 (triclopyr butoxyethylester) is oil soluble, hence why people use oils such as diesel to penetrate. Glyphosate is a water soluble herbicide. Putting glyphosate in diesel will not work. On the other hand Garlon 4 in water forms an emulsion. Glyphosate, if compatible, can be mixed with Garlon 4 in water. You so cut-stump and foliage spraying.

As far as mix rate for Garlon 4 in oil goes, 20% v/v is most popular. Some go as low as 12.5%. It all depends on how much coverage is done. Dilute=more coverage needed.

Garlon 4 is a broad leave herbicide. Glyphosate is a general killer of anything green. If you want long-acting grass and annual broad leaf control, Princep (Simazine) works well in water.

Gallon 4 (triclopyr butoxyethylester) is oil soluble, hence why people use oils such as diesel to penetrate. Glyphosate is a water soluble herbicide. Putting glyphosate in diesel will not work. On the other hand Garlon 4 in water forms an emulsion. Glyphosate, if compatible, can be mixed with Garlon 4 in water. You so cut-stump and foliage spraying.

As far as mix rate for Garlon 4 in oil goes, 20% v/v is most popular. Some go as low as 12.5%. It all depends on how much coverage is done. Dilute=more coverage needed.

Garlon 4 is a broad leave herbicide. Glyphosate is a general killer of anything green. If you want long-acting grass and annual broad leaf control, Princep (Simazine) works well in water.

Thanks everyone.

Would it be safe to spray the Garlon4/diesel and Gly/water on the same day? Basically what I have is an old logging trail that was terribly overgrown with tag alders. After loads of hours of working with a brush cutter and chain saw, I have most removed down to the stumps. I want to spray that trail to kill the stumps so I don't go through this effort again. Next, I want to spray Gly to kill the weeds and grass in there as I will be trying to get something good to grow in there (meadow fescue and birdsfoot trefoil). And yes, I will be laying down the lime and fertilizer according to the results of a soil test. This is not good soil in this area and my research shows what I plan to plant has a chance there. Northern Sweet Grass is another option and I might try that separately on a different section of the trail. THere is one area I have opened up getting lots of sun where some Alsike Clover might work in my main mix too.

HGL, yes, you can spray same day. If you want to avoid damaging the soil with diesel (it is a pollutant), just target the stumps or mix Garlon 4 in a paraffin based oil or canola oil if you broadcast spray.

Treefarm, if he broadcast sprays the alders do you think the cut trunks will get enough garlon to do the job?

Treefarm, what damage to the soil can the diesel cause? Seems weird to me that it won't kill weeds or grass but it could damage the soil. That said, this soil sucks as it is and will needs tons of lime and triple 19 for starters. I would prefer to not make it worse though.

It is hard to see the stumps now because of how far down I trimmed them with the brush cutter. Also, they are everywhere on this trail as it was totally overgrown with them. The trail was not walkable when I first started this last year. There were lots of sprouts from last year's cut down that I cut down this year. I am hoping to not have to do this annually.

Jeff, you bring up a good point. How much of this spray needs to make contact with the already cut alders?

Broadcast spraying will not be very efficient. Only a small percentage of the chemical will reach the target plants (alder, buckthorn, etc.). Expensive and putting unnecessary chemical on the landscape. These plants should be targeted directly. Cutting tag alder during the growing season will kill a significant percentage of it. Cutting it in the dormant season will invigorate it. Some of the others will be very resilient and will require stump treatment and then follow up on the plants that will continue to sprout from seed.

Diesel fuel is commonly used but as treefarm says, it is a pollutant and I would discourage broadcast spraying it. Again expensive, ineffective, and just not good for the environment. Again, targeted use is much more appropriate.

With any of the pesticides, pay very close attention to the mixing directions. I often hear people say they used more than recommended thinking it will work better. That's not how these products work. You are just wasting money, putting excess chemical in the environment, and in the long run building resistance the the chemical. Use the numbers the manufacturer recommends.

Thanks skookumjt. I will only spray directly on the stumps I see. I plan to use the 5-1 ratio recommended by Jeff.

If I spray this on uncut tag alders, I am assuming I only spray them at the base of the ground. How wet do they need to get to be affective or is this not a recommended approach?

Thanks again everyone.

In order to be effective, the herbicide needs to be applied to a cut stump. The chemical needs to be transported internally to the roots.

Garlon 4 mixed with diesel or other vegie oils 5:1 will kill any cut stump or live woody plant/tree/bush. Anything under an inch I think if you get half the circumference hit it will be dead. More than an inch try to get the whole perimeter of the low cut stem/trunk. Anything with s thin bark if you get it wet that should be enough. If the bark is more coarse like 4" buckthorn would probably be, or especially big box elder trees you should soak the bark good all the way around whether it is cut or standing. If it is standing get about a 4-6 inch vertical band on standing stuff. If there is moss on the bottom of the trunk I have always sprayed on the moss and had success but takes a lot of solution to soak through the moss. You could scrape that off if you want. I have not tried it yet but Treefarm tells me you can also spray above the moss and it will still die.

For future reference, if spraying with diesel in the winter I use #1 diesel, it comes out of the sprayer easier in the cold. In the summer the cheaper #2 is fine. You probably know about off-road diesel. It is usually cheaper than highway use but with fuel prices changing so much there could be circumstances where the highway stuff might be close or even cheaper.

If you think you will be doing a lot of base or stump treating for a while you might want to invest in an Ultra Low Volume Spray Wand. (see the link) $163 but it saves solution and pollution, valve is at the tip so no dripping after you let off the trigger, longer wand so less bending over, screen in the handle area so the tip clogs up less. One problem spraying in the woods is crap is always falling on the spray tank. Funnel top style tanks are magnets for this junk to get into the tank. I use Gilmore tanks as the top is more of a cap so less gets in but stuff still gets into the plunger area and gets between the seal and causes leaks of solution into the plunger tube. Or the junk gets into the solution and plugs your tip, or in the my case eventually plugs the filter in the handle. Always let pressure out of the tank when done. This stuff will last a long time even after being mixed with diesel but if you have crap in the pump tube then solution will find it's way into the pump tube and eventually on your floor, hands, whatever is in the way if presureized.

Great stuff Jeff. Thanks. I bought a 4 gallon back back sprayer and will see how it performs before I make a bigger investment. I'm hoping I might only need to spray Garlon this season and maybe next to get what I missed. I will use the same sprayer for the water/Gly mix for the weeds.

Oh and if you don't let the pressure out and the plunger area gets filled with solution and you don't realize it and pull up on the pump handle to put some pressure in it the tank then solution comes flying up out of the top of the tube. Don't ask me how I know this.

Happy, I'm sure you know more about the site's conditions than I do as I've never been there, but I'm concerned by your mention of tag alders. Tag alders indicate that you're in a wetland and they most typically are found within muck soil types. If your soil there is dark black and stains your fingers when you rub the soil between them, you have a muck. If you're trying to establish a trail system through muck soils, you'll definitely be encountering compaction of these soils even from just occasional ATV traffic. This is likely to result in the trail becoming the low spot, holding water and resulting in severe rutting.

If this is the case, I wouldn't be too concerned with ridding your trail from it's existing vegetation as it likely is providing the best sod/root support possible. Periodic mowing of the existing alder and grass might be a better option than trying to establish something new there that doesn't off as extensive of a root system. Odds are the soils at that location are also rather acidic and prone to excessive saturation which may make it difficult to grow much other than what nature is already providing.

Good stuff B2K. Yes, the soil is typically wet there and I have my doubts if I can get something to grow there. I am going to try on a smaller section (around 1/5 of an acre) and will plant Grandpa Ray's Logging Trail Mix (see link), Birdsfoot Trefoil and Sweet Spot - Northern Mix. The Birdsfoot Trefoil is deep rooting but would take time to establish. This section that I opened up on this trail does get lots of light now and is not as wet as many other areas of this trail. If this fails, I won't be out much and I believe the crap that is there now will propogate again. It it does work, it would be a huge benefit.

Note too that I have lots of trails on this property where I have cut tag alders to open the trails up and expand them. I will not be planting in those areas but would want the tag alders killed so I don't have to do this brush cutter work annually. I will only hit those with the Garlon4.

This land I bought sucks. I got what I paid for (90 acres and a nice cabin for $100K), but it is mine and I am improving it. It is 90 acres of mostly cedar marsh but there are some higher dry spots and the land does hold deer and year round at that. My son got his first buck ever with his bow from here last year. We saw lots of deer. I know all the neighbor's land are the same (lacks quality) and any plots I can get in will be differentiators. I have 3 other areas that are higher ground that I have cleared and will plant on. My soil samples were poor but not terrible and not anything that can't be corrected - in those higher drier plot chosen areas. The trail in question is by far the worst and I did not get a soil sample. I am going to take a flier on this 1/5 acre section and drop 300#s of lime and 150#s of triple 19, do a fall planting of the mix noted above (after spraying it with Gly 3 times this season) and see what happens there next spring. Maybe I'll be surprised? If it works, I'll do the same in other areas of the trail that are drier.

I appreciate all the comments and advice.

Hey all, I have another question.

Am I able to lay lime and fertilizer on the same day I spray either Gly or Garlon4? I live 3.5hrs from the land and time is a commodity. If I can't do same day, is the next day OK?

Thanks again for all the assistance.

Why are you wanting to spraydown and fertilize in the same day? Overseeding??

If you plan on spraying, liming, fertilizing, overseeding and cultipacking you can do it after spraying gly, just make sure it is dry.

I have never done it with Garlon4, I only use that to spray stumps and other woody invasives. I do not know what the diesel does to the lime or fertilizer.

I was looking to do as much as I could due to time constraints. I won't be planting until August but I want the lime and fertilizer to start working and I know I need to spray the gly multiple times this summer. I would prefer to spray the Gly though with or before the lime/fertilizer. The Garlon I can do on a different trip. Those recently cut stumps won't sprout much like the weeds/grass will.

Spray the individual stumps as they are cut. It's best to get it on the stump when it is fresh.

I wouldn't fertilize before planting, that's just adding food for the weeds. There is never a bad time to spread lime because it takes up to 6 months to start working.

I would cut the brush you want to, spray the stumps. Spray the gly and lime after the gly is dry and you should be good.

There never seems t be enough time to get it all done....

Good deal online at Harbor Freight on backpack sprayers.

Thanks Mike!

You are welcome!

Headed out to meet with the bee man. He is helping me set up 2 hives to see of we can improve the pollination on the property and surrounding areas.

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