I don't varmint hunt, but I'm assuming coyotes are fair game on Wisconsin public land. I'm curious if any of you have witnessed this big a population swing this year and if WDNR will do anything to intervene, or just let nature take it's course. Also curious if you would hunt the two birds or just ice those tags. Thanks.
If you feel that is the answer to the problem, then why shoot two of them? Even if your lucky enough to get that. Also, If you are a land owner, than make it turkey friendly. They'll be back..
Varmint control should be a priority
Only one other hunter that I know of that hunts turkeys in the square mile + around my home. All the landowners in our area, won't think twice about eliminating those rabies infested mutts either.
You stated you've filled a tag or tag(s) the last 5 years, and you don't take out coyotes that you know are on the property.
How many other hunters are there? Do you have any idea how many dogs you're dealing with?
My two cents...forget the turkeys for a year and drop the hammer on the coyotes.
With that said, I feel the same way as the original poster, that the coyotes are a problem. I saw the same coyotes hunting he saw, and we shot a female which was the only chance we had at one. I found 7 turkey feet on this property, and that was not looking for them, and that was only in an open field, and not at all where they roost. I believe the coyotes are on a high right now. I know they are actively hunting the birds, because I saw it first hand, and these turkeys are avoiding the edges unlike years past.
the turkeys are still there, they are just acting different while avoiding the hunters. Unfortunately, I'm one of the hunters they are avoiding simply because I'm hunting those same edges they are avoiding. We kill every coyote we see, no matter what we are hunting. It's the sacrifice you need to make as the alpha hunter, if you want to keep your competition managed. I believe you have to kill 75% of the coyote population to put a dent on them, and we are certainly not accomplishing these goals. I've killed 5 coyotes in a handful of years, and do not actively hunt them. I'm going to attempt to start hunting them after deer season however.
We still are 100% on tags so far, I've shot two, and hope to fill a 3rd on the last season, with four toms patterned pretty good right now. So they are still killable, just changing tactics a bit. I do feel like our population took a dive, but I feel like the hens are where the numbers dropped. I also attribute that to the very harsh winter we had a couple years back. They bounce back fast. Used to have around 200 birds in our winter flock, and we are now down to less than 100. Of course some little groups are spreading out and occupying new land, new food sources, and new roosts, making up their own family structures. That's what turkeys do....especially those who receive heavy hunting pressure. We do not hunt the land these turkeys roost on. There is a sanctuary of 120 acres that they receive NO pressure. We hunt the fringes of their safe zone, and it's worked for many years.
As far as shooting those two birds? I'm really not sure if you only have two birds. Our birds were anything but typical this year with cold and warm and cold and warm weather. If I thought for one minute I was taking the last two birds from the flock, and there were jakes to help out next season, I'd be forced to pass. We shoot no more than 6 birds from this property, leaving roughly half the birds to breed and live another day. We also look at the jakes we have. I know we had 18 jakes that survived the winter. That's right about exact where we are every year, so I think what we are doing is working.
That would be very illegal for a nonresident unless he had a furbearer license or was hunting on property he owns.
I watched this from a quarter mile away through my binoculars. Slightly out of my range.
In the past, i could see 40-60 birds in the winter flock. This year, it looked like 10-15. There were probably other flocks too but that's a reduction.
I also agree that the biggest hit was a harsh winter a few years ago. There was a LOT of freezing rain, snow, and very cold weather. I think that combination is very hard on turkeys.
My flock is weird this year. It is pretty late in the season. I had a group of 10 jakes pass by the other day. I saw another group of 6. So I have plenty of toms for next year.
I haven't seen very many hens this year. That concerns me a bit. But I think they are just more elusive. I'm hoping that they are around but just not out in the open like the toms.
How many other hunters are there? Do you have any idea how many dogs you're dealing with?
My two cents...forget the turkeys for a year and drop the hammer on the coyotes."
I just said I don't varmint hunt. In fact, during the last five years I've not had one coyote within range of my weapon (bow & scattergun). So that would not have mattered.
I don't know how many other hunters turkey hunt this property because I am a nonresident and typically can only get season E & F tags. I don't know how many folks hunt it during the first 4 seasons.
This is in southern Wisconsin. That winter really had no effect on this public land, because the highest turkey population by far was in 2015. I expect that is what attracted all the yotes recently.
NE corner of Wash Co, on the border, I see toms also every day, they are very wired, and will tolerate nothing,,,, reason is simple pressure,,,,,,,,
have an area outside of Cascade, landowner, lets one guy a year hunt, which is me this year, neighbors allow no hunting, on the border with state kettle land, I hate to tell you how easy these birds are, compared to the public......
I am pumped for Wed........southern Wis is a big area, your a little vague on your area, what county
Is the coyote the number one problem? Perhaps!
But do not let us forget about our ground feeders, raccoons, opossum and skunks! Not to mention the occasional Fisher!
These vermin account for more eggs gobbled (no pun) down each year. Thankfully, hens can re-nest without being bred a second time, but it still takes it toll.
So between all those predators...it's hard to make a living as a turkey.
And what about the weather?
From killing winters to wet/cold springs (nesting/poults), weather takes it toll. But you and I can not do much about that!
What we can do is stay vigilant on predator control.
Numbers are down in my area as well.
I am seeing a slight increase however and landowners are reporting more sightings overall.
My suggestion...cross your fingers and while your doing that, treat the local predators to a "dirt nap" every chance you get - legally that is! :^)
All the posts I read with regards to weather being a possible cause reference a "biggest hit was a harsh winter a few years back". I understand weather can play a big role. However, I clearly mentioned "That winter really had no effect on this public land, because the highest turkey population by far was in 2015". So the winter a few year back was definitely not a cause of this year's problem. I didn't see anyone post that this past winter was unusually harsh. Was that the case?
Not a turkeyologist and don't play one on TV - rarely if ever is it a single cause that contributes in any way to a decline.
Outside of weather, if it was - not a complicated fix.
Overall as a group, we suck at coyote control. Some of us step up to the plate, but most don't care enough to make a difference. If the opportunity presents itself, sure they'll take a shot - but overall we stink.
P.S.: Last winter was a great winter - mild here in West Central! NOW - it can warm up and bring short warm rains.
I had 20 degrees on Sunday - not good for turkeys or fawns.
It could be food location moved, roosting location interrupted too often, pressure from other hunters, predation, your individual take including other hunters, weather including the weather during nesting and laying as well as predation during laying. Of course coyotes are bad on birds. I see it here, but I'd still say that the winter a few years back was the biggest impact on this particular flock I do know well. I live here. I hunt here. It's private land. I have exclusivity, and I have the time to watch them, as well as many years of data.
Kill those yotes, but remember that we are the alpha dog with modern weapons in our hands. We are not too hungry that we cannot pass on a limited flock, and find a new place to hunt when things go south. Good luck!
I have hunted the same area for many years..I know there are turkeys there - sometimes they stay on the neighboring property and I don't see them and sometimes they come over and I see them every time I hunt. Birds move and split up once the spring season comes!!!!
This is why it is called HUNTING!!! Why is it when people don't see game every second of their hunt do they complain and moan...oh numbers are down etc....c'mon!
Turkey numbers are down drastically pretty much statewide. If you can't/don't see that, you obviously don't spend much time hunting them.
Very true, and they are even down considerably from that the last 3-4 years.
Number fluctuate... sorry, when I drive anywhere in the state...hwy 29, hwy 10 hwy 41 etc I see plenty of turkeys to hunt. Maybe they are down but considerably down?? Dont' see it!
Only place I see them down is up north and that is due to locals and others shooting ALL of them off seasons. I am not saying some predators don't get them as well.
I remember the days when only place there were turkeys in WI was in the west part of the state....
I just think a lot of hunters think they should be coming out of the woodwork!
1). Sightings
2). Gobbling
Based upon the above two - yes, numbers are down and have been for sometime.
The only period I did not hunt was the 4th period (D) -
BNG - There was a time when they were coming out of the woodwork - no longer!
Long for those days again!
I for one don't complain when I don't see game around every corner...if I don't like it then I don't shoot the does, the hens in fall etc. I just think we are partly to blame too, not just the predators and DNR.
Bloodtrail - don't disagree - are they down compared to a bit ago yes but there are still plenty of turkeys out there. I guess that is all I am trying to get at. As for gobbling. I have noticed even when I see turkeys or know where they are roosted etc the gobbling has been down all together. Once they hit the ground now a days they aren't as vocal as they used to be. As stupid as a turkey can be..I think they are adapting as well to the pressure.
Good point -
I base my numbers on gobbles from the roost and locations of those gobbles as they are spread across the landscape.
Seasons (Periods) 1 & 2, you can hear a gobble a country mile and then some on clear, crisp cold mornings!
We all know there are those rare mornings that a gobbler(s) for whatever reason will not gobble, even on the roost. Rare, but does happen.
Most often, you cannot stop a gobbler from gobbling off the roost. Once on the ground, it's a different story.
The surrounding areas, are pressured big time, I mean you still get them, but you have to hunt, and lots of competition..... I have neighbors who between the 3 of them, have like 7 tags, so they are out all the time, pounding the same areas.......
I would say the birds in 2, in the N Kettle Moraine, are in very good shape, some areas are better than others, but prime private land, is a deal breaker.
I have a tag for this week, but my wife had rotator cup surgery yesterday, and recovery is rough, so I am homebound, for my tag time
In fact - the last 2 weeks a simple hen was very hard to spot - nesting is hot and heavy!
I shot a gobbler at 9:10 AM today and just minutes prior spotted a hen hot footing across the same field, she paid me absolutely no attention!
Fortunately for me, the gobbler paid real good attention!
We will see some good numbers again if the weather holds out for a couple of years now.
So far the nesting season has been a good one in our area.
