Contributors to this thread:
Anybody hear if we can shoot does with our bows in the UP this year? there are a few permits in the Menominee area.
I still believe they are off the table.
No changes. Just the same three areas as last year.
"Info from Lansing"
Jon is correct. DMUs 055, 122, and 155. I'm in 155. Last year my son and I each bought an antlerless tag and then ate them as we got 2 bucks and that is enough deer for our family. We'll buy 2 more tags this year just in case. We do have a fair amount of antlerless deer on camera right now.
Just got the new antlerless guide, it shows no does with any type of deer tag in the UP with the exception of the tags in Menominee area. Should add to the herd for the next few years.
I listened to Chad Stewart on a radio talk show last weekend and he said no changes and what spikehorn wrote, this should add to next years herd.
I called the DNR and talked to one of the State's Deer Biologists..... Sorry ... I don't remember her name....... She said the same......No changes for this year. They do things on a 3 year cycle,,, and it won't be addressed until next year.
We had a nice chat.... And she eluded to what I already suspected..... That the decision to make does off limits for archers had little to do with deer biology...... And more to do with gun hunting organizations in the U.P. (U.P. Whitetails Assoc.) PUSHING the NRC to make it so.........
She even so much as stated that deer numbers go in cycles according to the weather in the U.P.,,, and the few thousand does that are protected by this are not significant.............
I'm sure that some of you don't want to hear that and don't agree with it.......
But I believe that harvesting a doe with my bow in the U.P. has little or no effect on the herd...........and I am looking forward to it being brought back...........
However..... I'd imagine that the U.P. Whitetails Asscoc. would like to make it a PERMANENT thing...........
And For the record......I'm just a TROLL......U.P. landowner...........So I know......because I live below the bridge my opinion don't mean SQUAT......
well big bear, I think your opinion means as much as anyone,,, now for speaking from the UP, and in particular Iron and Baraga Co, the only thing that will increase deer, besides being lucky with the winters are chain saws,,,,,,,,
the forest continue to be too much of old growth and I agree with John Ozogo, that a doe can survive bad winters, and predators, if she only has a chance, and that chance, comes from a YOUNG Forest, where she can go into winter, with something to eat,,,,,, besides the corn piles.....
lots of logging trucks rolling yesterday down 141, up on 95 and across M28, but, if there heading for Sagola, the lumber is not coming out from where it needs to be .....
progress is being made, and I am a landowner, but no I do not need a deer that bad, that I will shoot a baldie, when you can kill all you want in the lower....
Of course what do I know,,,, I can tell you some news of encourgagement, the wolves along the Paint River are getting the mange, and are not doing well
Like I said on the other thread..... My Forestry Survey I had done on my land agrees with everything you say......
They recommended clear cutting half of my property in order to let the aspen regenerate...
They said if I don't..... I will eventually have only shade tolerant pines on my property with nothing for the deer to eat.....
I either need to select cut a lot of trees.......... or bite the bullet and have half of my land logged off.... for the future of the deer habitat.....
do not get a processer in there, if you want some contacts on guys who select cut, let me know, you got to get that sun in there, popple is at a good price now, anyway, and it swings like the tree limbs, so cut it,,,,,,
where are you in the UP?
BB--Agree 100%. Also, UP Whitetails has been pushing to end archery hunting after Muzzleloading season; as if a few of that hunt in 0 degree weather are making a difference.
I shot a great buck for the UP, near Bergland, last year in late season,,,,,,,, thanks to being able to sit with my Heater Body Suit,,,,,, I have never heard of the UP whitetails trying to shut down the late season, so I will check it out.....
last year I hunted late season almost every day, and in total, excluding Christmas, I saw a total of 4 other hunters, in a very large area...
I hear a lot of talk and BS,but I never see anyone really hunting..........
for the most part, if they can not get deer within their bait piles, that are either close to their trucks or their houses, most so called hunters never really hunt.....
last year late season, I walked a lot of areas, and never saw, a human track and that is a fact....
these are the best of times
I have 20 acres with a small off the grid cabin in Newberry.....
I had my forestry survey done by Grossman Forestry. If I have the clear cutting done.....My plan is to call them and follow through on my survey. They would take bids to have a company cut my 10 acres.
One of my concerns is my road. My 20 sits back off the county road behind another 20......But I actually own the easement road that goes back to it. I paid a good amount of money to have it improved with gravel and felt road underlayment..... It pains me to think of logging trucks using it heavily to get the wood out.......... And of course there's the shock value of having my beautiful woods cut.........
But on the other hand....My neighbor that borders the north side of my property had over 70 acres cut about 4-5 years ago.........Now there's a young thicket of 10 foot tall aspen suckers growing in thickly..........Prime deer food..... My Forester said that's like having a 70 acre food plot on the north side of my property.....
I still have more thinking to do. I killed a bear on my land last year. If I clear cut......That probably won't happen again for several years.....and I'm 50........
"I paid a good amount of money to have it improved with gravel and felt road underlayment..... It pains me to think of logging trucks using it heavily to get the wood out.......... And of course there's the shock value of having my beautiful woods cut........."
Just have them log it when the ground is frozen and you will never know they were there, other than the trees missing.
Keith is correct. U.P. Whitetails has been after archer deer seasons for years. Whether it be the first season wanting the quiet period or the late season. He and I both have been dealing with this issue for a whole bunch of years. In 1994 they made an attempt to eliminate the 2nd deer license in the U.P. all together. There was so many signatures by both gun hunters and bow hunters on petitions against them that they and their leader had created a laughing session of the NRC. They had no facts, proof or anything to back up their attempt to hobble the deer hunters of the U.P. other than money making trophy bucks for non residents to kill. They figure they could tell stories by saying that is what the majority wanted, but did that back fire on them. They had a deputy DNR director in their pocket. That back fired on him and them. The NRC told them to take their fictitious jargon and do not come back with this again. Since they have been involved in other attempts to deplete deer hunting opportunity in the U.P. for the let em go, let em grow crowd. That was not to let em grow for breeding stock that was to let them grow for trophy bucks and in not way did any of it fit into deer management.
Interesting thread to read and some great conversation by participants. Lot of knowledge out there. One of the things I find interesting about this subject is reasons for low doe numbers. Last year their explanation for low numbers was predators,and winter die off. This all fell into a time frame of 4 years ago (last year) that it all started concerning the decline in antler less deer. The U.P. has almost as many predators as it always has. Wolf numbers are way up but they claim winter killed antler less deer in areas with lower wolf numbers. Then it went to number of coyotes killing deer, then bear killing fawns. These were all justifications for their observation of low antlerless deer numbers. First off after all the years in the woods I have not seen a predator target a doe deer as an easy kill. Fawns yes but not does. Does have an uncanny way to survive very rough winters as they have since deer first came to the U.P. and survived winters that were very severe including consecutive winters. For as many years as we have been hunting deer they have survived all the reasons for them to drop in numbers. But as they stated in 4 years their numbers dropped to create a policy of no antlerless deer hunting in the U.P.. No one has even mentioned or may not even know that five years ago, or four years ago concerning their numbers last year the cross bow for general use was implemented for the month of October. They have no way of knowing how many deer are shot with any tool for hunting with out registration and there is not a individual license for crossguns. They are considered by the state as archery equipment which they are not. The year before they were given to the general public they were listed in the conservation orders as equal to salt, pit falls, poison, drugs and trapping that were illegal to use to harvest deer. Over night the NRC made a decision they are different than what they were defined as for many years. The U.P. even during the harshest winters have never suffered lower numbers as they have since every tom dick and harry has been out slaughtering deer with cross guns. It is a consideration. I know it is my observation and I have been in the woods along time. In 1999 the DNR biologists around the state made statement that they will not longer manage wildlife but manage the ecosystem and evidently that is what that meant to do with the NRC implemented the cross gun for general use. In another thread I was reading discussion about mandatory registration. The way this state works they would still include the cross gun as archery equipment so they would not find out the damage that is being done regardless. They would not admit their mistake..
I talked with a man that works in the logging in the UP.A couple years ago he said they found several deer carcass in the spring from winter kill. As long as hunters only take there legal limit,I do not see the crossbow hunters hurting the deer population as much as the other factors such as preditors,habitat loss and weather.
So what will is take to have antlerless deer made available again to the rest of the UP?
I'm guessing the surveys have a lot to do with the rules too. If people are saying they are not seeing deer and the number of sightings per hour remains low, then the next action is to increase the herd which is best done letting does walk.
WI created County committees who recommend if a deer population should be increased, decreased, or remain as is. They take public input and also look at harvest information, Winter Severity Index, predation estimates, etc. WI does have mandatory registration (for those who follow the laws). The committees present that to the Legislature which then determines if units are buck only or they determine the number of antlerless tags made available for that county. This is year 2 of that approach which has gained lots of fans. WI does not like the WDNR running the show.
Wis is in their final year, of studying the crossbow effect,,,,,, the last 2 years, they far outweigh the effectiveness of hand drawn bows,,,,,, point is the xbow for everyone is a mistake,,,, they are not allowed for late season in the UP, but no one will explain why ?
I have fished a lot of remote areas this year, in the western UP, and have seen more does, than years past, which is a good thing,,,,, should we hunt them, I have no idea, does buck only help, I have no idea.....
razor, I don't have the link and am being lazy and did not look for it again, but I once read on the MDNR site that xbows are not allowed in late season in the UP due to the deer congregating in deer yards. It stated that xbows would be too efficient in those circumstances. I was really surprised to see that stated on a DNR site.
thanks, my friend got the same answer in crystal falls office,,,,,, by the way a shout out for that dnr center, really nice and helpful personnel there....
crystal falls office, represents the state well,,,, you should see the illegal bucks taken by poachers in the office, from the area,,,,,
I decided to look it up and found the link. Here is the snippet:
Why can't I use a crossbow in the Upper Peninsula during the late archery deer season?
The Natural Resources Commission thought that the large migration of deer gathering in wintering yards might be subject to over-harvest if crossbows are widely adopted by hunters.
razorhead, I agree the Crystal Falls DNR office has great people working there. Seen the buck and looking for his relatives. As for crossbows, I find it very ironic that they ban them in the late season in the UP, yet muzzleloader are legal. Muzzlloaders are much more effective then a crossbow and can easily kill out to several hundreds yards. One muzzle loader manufacture even says they are more accurate then a center fire rifle. Even though I have heard lots of protests over crossbows, I have heard none against muzzleloaders. Personally I think muzzleloader should be classified for what they are, a rifle and only be legal during the rifle season. I don't think it is going to happen and I am not starting a protest, just an opinion.
Dave Painter is a top notch CO and person , he works out of the Crystal Falls office.
Just got back home from Bow Hunting Bears(2nd season) in and around Trout Creek.They do not have a problem with doe's in that area. I have never seen so many,in that area before. Going back to camp after hunt we had to keep an eye out on the road as we saw doe's and fawn's every night. Last night watched one walk right thru downtown Trout Creek. Even saw doe's while fishing the Jumbo River south of M-28.
I am from Ohio and worked operating heavy equipment for 41 yrs. If they tear up your lane logging out your woods they should fix your lane on their dime. A farmer friend of mine here in Ohio had his woods logged. The logging outfit bought the to fix his lane. Mike Mahan In Sidney, Ohio
Hopefully common sense prevails and we will be able to shoot does with our bows again across the U.P. In 2017.
We can only hope I've seen so many does this year. Heres a thought one doe tag and one buck tag no apr. Any thoughts
