The North is getting to be a joke
Wisconsin
I had to come home, to handle something, I have filled already a MI tag, but I have to tell you, deer hunting as I see it, is becoming a joke. Not too long ago, I had to agree with BT that a little baiting, does not hurt much, but from what I have seen, leaves me in distress.................................... the piles of bait, the trucks loaded with all this crap, the lack of enforcement, I could take any wardens to more illegal baits you could shake a stick at, but I doubt, anyone is interested.........................
than the amount of crossbows, healthy guys mostly from 35 to 55 years of age, all out with these bullet guns, to kill their animals over the baits,,,,, I want to puke.....
at 67 I live in another world, but from what I see, I am not too optimistic on our future here in this state...................................
Yup, its ugly out there.........
what are you getting at? I hunt with a crossBOW over bait....
razorhead.... did you call the local warden and tell them about the illegal baits? if not, your part of the problem.
Wardens are short staffed but when you practically do all the work for them and they still do nothing. It's hard to have faith in them.
Sorry to hear some of you guys have to deal with this. Fortunately for me I'm not effected by this.
Yes the wardens are short staffed, but don't lay the blame on them for being short staffed. It all starts with the philosophy of their boss. The Secretary of the DNR. They do what they are told to do. Just like any employee at any job. I know some damn good wardens and they would love to write citation after citation, but their hands are tied. I hear it all the time. You are not alone in seeing this in non baiting counties. it's all over the state. Guys stop at the gas station to pick up a case of beer and 100 lbs of corn to feed the deer. Also, it's not just the crossbow guys, it is bowhunters and gun hunters too. All you can do is call it in, and complain to the big shots who never leave the office and let them know how unhappy you are with the spending of your dollars. They need to be reminded very sternly every so often about who they work for.
Yes, they work for us, and don't let them tell you anything different!
If your not a local and have property and a cabin I'd mind my own business . Unless you want your stuff to disappear or get destroyed . I've lived up North a long time and a lot of local's feel the deer are theirs when ever they want . Most local's like hunter's money but not the hunters . Sad but true . I was considered a outsider till I lived there 10 years . Your called a shacker . I remember a guy from Ill. turned in a local for a hunting violation . By the following year he sold his property . Tree stand's stolen , permanent ones torn down , cabin vandalized . I should write a book about Northwood's mentality .
Don't forget about the other things they have to do other than look at corn piles.
Swampy- Yup, we're diwn the road from you and since I was a kid we would remove anything in our vwhucle that might ID us as not being from there. Our neighbor (the one that we let hunt on our land for a quarter) had an old mobile home taken from his property. Didnt even bother calling it in because he was worried theyd vandalize his cabin while he wasnt up there.
Mike F, please tell us what the philosophy of the DNR secretary is. Does she instruct wardens to ignore all laws? If so, I don't think they are understaffed as they have nothing to do. Support your answer with something more than anecdotal things "heard all the time."
Well here we go again...........Dam northern guys and their baiting..... I don't care if hunters bait or not,,,, Blaming bait and people who bait for your unsuccessful season is like blaming guns for all the murders. Its the people doing the illegal practice in both. 99.9 % of the illegal baiting is done by those dam weekend warriors from the south. I see it every year bear baiting. They come up on the weekends and dump up to a 55 gal. drum of cookies and leave till next weekend. Not to mention they look for other baits and then bait along side it. The same is happing with deer baits. I call in every illegal bait I find (which are very few these days) and the wardens are there immediately . I don't know of one warden that isn't glade to address this. They also bait. I find way more illegal bear baits then deer. We have a way bigger problem with the out of state and southern Wis. bird hunters and their beeping dogs disrupting our deer hunt or all the southern Wis. bear dog hunters rigging their dogs and running on private land then we do with illegal deer baiting.. Best solution,, if your not happy with up here hunting,,,, Stay Home. You have more deer down south then we do up here. Put up with all the hunters on the limited public land. I bet that's a sh!t show.
In no way, do I blame the wardens, they are working their butts off, but are very short handed, and are pulled 3 ways to Sunday,,,, they do a great job,,,,,,
I guess my point was, its the mentality I see today, with young hunters, driving by with truck beds filled with bait, ,,,,,,,
I realize its not my place to tell someone else how to hunt, as long as they are legal, but I think, they are missing out, ,,,,,,,,, I also do not believe, any healthy person should be shooting a crossgun,,,,,,,,
that's all I have to say,,,,,,, otherwise, the woods are beautiful, go out and enjoy
arrow1 you are absolutely spot on.
Camp, I think we really need to delve into it to see if crossbows have increased hunter participation or if they have just moved existing hunters from one season to another. My guess is it is the latter much more than the former. I have no issue with their use during any muzzle loader or firearm season but that was already allowed before we had the new crossbow season under the "lessor weapons rule." While I do not bait, I have no issue with it where it is legal. Possibly I would think differently if I hunted in the north but if done legally, I am not sure that 2 gallons of bait is enough to make any type of significant impact on deer movement.
You can simply avoid this by walking more than 400 yards from a road. Northern deer are rarely hitting bait during daylight anyways so let people sit there in vain. People complain that boaters are lazy but if you aren't scouting other hunters as much as you are scouting deer you are lazy too.
2 gallons of bait is plenty to have the same effect as 50 gallons of bait. One area we hunt probably has 20 of those piles within a mile of us. The other place we hunt, a no bait area, probably as 6 within a mile. Yes I am guessing and may stretch the numbers a bit but it is happening everywhere.
If there were snow on the ground the DNR could use drones to see the deer paths in the snow and find exactly where every bait pile is.
The past ten years it has gotten harder and harder for me to pull my bow back, now I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder and a partial tear in my right, do not know what the future holds for me when surgery is complete. This is the first year since 1975 that I will not be buying any type of deer license. I will be selling my two bows this 1017 if anyone is interested. My only alternative now is the crossbow. No matter what weapon I use or which method I choose to hunt I could care less what others think. I will enjoy every moment when I am walking & hunting the great woods that God has given us.
MF, I would hardly think any anti-crossgun talk is directed at you or your situation. WI. had crossgun permits for handicapped situations, and it worked fine for many years. "Someone" was persuaded by the almighty dollar, and it all changed. No going back now.
I just have a few responses to the original post. I'm not defending people who are baiting in places where it is illegal, but in those counties where you can bait, I have no problem with it. As long as people are hunting legally, I'm not going to tell them they are right or wrong.
I also don't think it's fair to lump all crossbow hunters into a group of lazy, weekend warriors who hunt over bait. Again this is just my opinion, I would rather people use the weapon that they can make the most efficient kill with. I can't tell you how many wounded deer that I've seen already this season. That makes me sick! If a person choses to use a gun, shotgun, bow, or crossbow to harvest that animal, who am I to tell them what they can or can't use. If that person uses a bullet, slug, arrow, or bolt and makes a quick efficient kill then I'm happy and I would never look down on someone because they took a big buck with a bullet over an arrow or any other way.
Here is the best way that I can describe my point, my grandfather and even my dad when they first got into bow hunting they used a recurve "traditional" bow. When I showed them the compound bow that I purchased with all the bells and whistles they looked at me like I had a huge advantage over what they had and I can't deny that there is a huge advantage in almost every way over a recurve. Why do people shoot compounds over a recurve? Ultimately, I don't understand the hate for crossbows. I'm not as old as many of the people who post on these forums, I'm 33 years old. The deer that I have taken during archery hunting don't stick out any differently than the deer that I've take rifle hunting. I've only harvested 4 deer in my years of hunting but each one has left me with a memory and story that I will remember forever.
So blast me if you want! It wont change the way that I chose to hunt and I'm not going to tell someone they are wrong because of the weapon they chose to hunt with, the arrows they shoot, the broad heads they use, how high they climb a tree, whether they use bait (where legal), or many of the millions of other variables that can come into play when hunting.
Good luck to all the hunters this upcoming gun season. Be safe!
MF I agree with stage, nobody is going to think twice of you using a crossbow. It has it's places.
If my 13 year old son can kill deer with a bow, without bait, I see no reason why most adults shouldn't be able to do the same.
The reason the North is more huntable now than it was 6-8 years ago is because there is only 5-10% of the deer there was. Most of the lazy baiters won't even try. Yes some of the hardcore guys will, and a lot of the locals who live there have no choice but to try and hunt it, if they don't want to travel. Otherwise with the low deer numbers it brings way lower hunter numbers (and bait) so it makes it easier to hunt without fighting about guys "claiming" spots, or deer, or altered deer movement, illegal atv/vehicle traffic etc. I know we won't see many if any deer, but sure looking forward to the Northwoods this rifle season.
I agree with arrow1 on this....if you don't like it don't hunt it. I live in w.Marinette county and have a small patch of land. I choose not to gun hunt anymore unless my grandson is available to hunt, then I mentor him. My land is fantastic for bow hunting but is relitivley unproductive for gun season due to all the hunters surrounding me. I have no problem with the gun hunters coming up to hunt. I put my bow down and take some time off. I bait during bow season (legally), but I know for a fact alot don't. I love that fact that I can set up bait by one of my cams and get great pics to share with family and friends. I look forward to checking my cams every few days. I hunt for the enjoyment of hunting not for the thrill of the kill,I enjoy siting in my tree and watching the fawns play as moms keep an eye out for them. I enjoy seeing tons for wildlife in there natural surroundings, and I enjoy just being out in the woods. I could be successful every year if I wanted but I choose to hunt when I feel like it, not because I need to get a big buck. It simple....if you don't like what is happening then don't hunt it.
Brew, i'll give you my opinion, for whatever it is worth. My issue with crossbows is that they allow many more people into the sport of archery hunting who otherwise would not take the time to become proficient with a bow. As a bow hunter, I worry that the large increase in the buck kill that I think will take place can negatively affect the archery season we now enjoy. Certainly this is a selfish position but when the gun hunters, the single largest group of hunters in this state, begin to notice an adverse affect, it very well may come back to haunt bow hunters and the season framework as we now enjoy.
CaptMike,
I appreciate your concerns with an influx of more people who may consider archery hunting because as you said a crossbow allows them to join the sport without becoming proficient with a bow. It will be interesting to see the numbers over the next couple of years to see what effect crossbows have on the archery season.
I think for someone who is relatively new to bow hunting there are many things to consider. As I said before I'm 33 years, I have a two year old and Mrs. at home who like to see me and I like to see them. Because of this I likely fall into the weekend warrior hunter which for some reason seems to have a negative connotation to it as others above have pointed out. My priorities are my family first! My time away so far this season has been 4 days. Hunting is something that I enjoy and do with family and friends. As you said it takes time and practice to become proficient with a bow. I live in Southeastern Wisconsin so finding a place to practice with my compound bow isn't impossible but I can't go shoot in the backyard. I can't bring my son with me when I go because he doesn't sit still for more than 2 seconds. How do I become proficient with my compound bow? The truth is, I'm not! I practice when I can. In a way I wish I waited a year before getting into archery hunting because I can't say I wouldn't have purchased a crossbow.
Hunting is different for each and everyone of us and that's really all I'm trying to say.
Brew, you bring up points that I have not considered. It does take some amount of dedication and with that brings a more limited number of hunters to the sport. I know that the most motivating factor to get me involved in archery hunting was the relative peace I could find in the woods, as compared to gun hunting. And again, I will say that my position is selfish, although I suspect that is one of the bigger motivators for anyone with an opinion. I do think that over time, you will find archery hunting to be much more satisfying, due to the level of difficulty as compared to gun or crossbow hunting. Lastly, it will not be a whole lot longer before you can get your little one involved in archery. I did that with my two daughters at an early age and can say it is one of the most satisfying things I continue to do with them. And, that weekend warrior thing is something that most people with a job are forced to be. No shame in that and congrats for keeping your family first.
CaptMike,
Hopefully your concern about the large buck kill now that crossbows are allowed won't effect the archery season. Since they are two different licensed the kill with each can be tracked. If the crossbow buck kill gets too large hopefully the DNR will just adjust the crossbow season and not the archery (vertical bow) season.
I think we hit the quota on Mikes here ;^)
arrow1 is right on with this
The Natives can bait, so baiting is not illegal to all.
MF, sounds like we need to start a club, so to speak, of rotator cuff tear victims on bowsite. I know there are at least a few more here. Good luck with your surgery. DO NOT DELAY the surgery, the longer you wait the harder it is for the surgeons to fix and consequently the final results are diminished. I waited way too long because a stupid chiropractor kept insisting it was not a tear.
Neverbait,
I understand your point along with the others who have said it allows people who otherwise wouldn't take the time to become proficient with a bow. Almost all of you have said this is selfish on your part but I do understand and appreciate your thoughts and opinion.
I think it's also important to have an understanding that just because someone chose a crossbow people immediately want to group those individuals into a group of lazy, weekend warrior hunters. You have no idea the reason people are choosing to hunt with a crossbow unless you ask. Could it be an injury related? Could it be a person who finds themselves in a similar situation as myself and simply doesn't have the time to become proficient with a compound bow? Was cost a concern when selecting their weapon of choice? There are so many factors that come into play and for people to simply make a quick and fast judgement on a person and it simply isn't fair in my mind.
I had an encounter recently with another hunter on public land and how high I chose to climb in my tree stand. I was about 10-12 feet up of the ground and this other hunter said very sarcastically, "Man, you really need to climb to 18-20 feet or higher or you will never get a deer." What that person didn't know is I have an extreme height phobia and climbing 10-12 feet is difficult for me. I don't want to say that I felt attacked but it did make me feel rather uncomfortable.
Each of us are different in why we hunt, where we hunt, how we hunt, etc. If someone uses bait where legal, I don't view this guy any differently from someone who choses not to bait. If a guy hunts from the ground, I don't think they are different from someone who hunts from a tree. I view the crossbow in the same regard. They are no different than the rifle/shotgun hunters and/or recurve/compound hunters. We are all deer hunters, even the weekend warriors like me who can only hunt 5-10 days per season.
Way too many pushing their "correct way to hunt" personal agenda onto other folks. Hunting is supposed to be about the nature, the pursuit, and for most; the time spent with friends.
To worry about a crossbow hunter 5 counties over, a guy sitting in a heated box blind on his own private land that you don't hunt, guys driving deer in their woods, or a illegal baiter 6 miles away, is apparently the same as a girl being mad at another girl for wearing the same outfit to the party.
It wastes time, and accomplishes nothing. Nearly all of us hunt for the love of the sport. But all I see are the same tired and worn out diatribes from the same dozen people year after year, making this website a total debbie downer.
Good luck to all of you Legal and respectful hunters this firearms season, no matter what weapon you choose.
Now is the time to quit your bitching, and go out to the woods and enjoy this privilege we are able to enjoy.
"Could it be a person who finds themselves in a similar situation as myself and simply doesn't have the time to become proficient with a compound bow?"
Myself and a few others here are about the same age and family circumstances as you. If you don't have the time there is always gun season. I didn't hunt for a number of years because of circumstances and now I appreciate it just that much more now that I am able to find the time. If you want to use the logic of just putting meat in the freezer, well with the money you spent on the xbow and accessories could probably get you a side of beef. Include the hours scouting and hunting and factor them as time=money you could definitely find a more efficient way to fill a freezer.
I'm glad you're out there hunting and I wish you the best but on this issue I'll have to disagree. Xbows are great for the disabled but its hard for me to justify for an able bodied family man. We're all brothers in hunting but all brothers I know love to rough each other up...as long as its us doing it and not an outsider.
I know how I like to hunt and what gives me satisfaction and I also accept the fact that hunting means different things to different people.
I really don't give a rip how somebody else chooses to hunt as long as it's legal and does not negatively affect others by claiming public land and/or significantly altering natural deer movement on public land. In my opinion that is selfish.
Bowhunting is in serious, serious decline and crossbow hunting is on the increase. Everyone needs to get over it, just the way it is. I love my longbow and bowhunting.
The previous system left no one out. 65 plus and those with a legitimate reason, could use a crossbow. The only change that may have been needed was making it slightly easier to get a crossbow permit due to shoulder problems, but with the speed of compounds in the lower poundage, that might not have been needed, but I have heard from people that it was difficult to get a permit due to injury. We fixed a system that wasn't broken.
If a person doesn't have the time to become proficient with a bow, they likely don't have the time to become proficient with a crossbow. Let's be honest, the bulk of gun hunters shoot their guns once a year and would likely fail any test proving accuracy. So now we have people taking to the woods with a weapon they don't know the limits of and lead to more wounded deer.
Let's take it one step further and add the airbow to the archery season which shoots out to 100 yards. Every time we add a weapon with a longer range, we get one step closer to wearing blaze orange during bow season.
The people that I know that have switched to a cross bow had a major problem with target panic. They could not shoot their compounds at all. It was to the point where they had no control and could not enjoy shooting . Regardless , the type of weapon in should not matter . Its your attitude . Showing some restraint regardless of what weapon is in your hand and not shooting at every deer that walks by . The old " if its legal I can do it" is a really poor way to hunt . That standard is not enough for a State that has the amount of hunters that we have . The same applies to the actual hunt methods . We (this State) should be leading the way and setting the bar higher . Major attitude adjustment for the families that have been hunting deer for awhile are needed . Some of the traditions , sharing tags ,and shooting everything , excessive baiting , killing and not tagging . Basically using the deer like they are their own personal herd to do what ever they want . It very sad to know this attitude is out there . In 2016 its actually astonishing that deer are used and hunted the way they are . That people think they are doing something great when they hunt and kill with the lowest amount of effort possible . We should be beyond the idea that a hunt means different things to different people . That doesn't work . The standard set by the industry and the DNR is too low . There goal and agenda has little to do with having a quality hunt . Low level ideas and traditions need to end , do not pass it on to the next its that simple . If that does not change you will continue to have this divide between hunters .
Target panic is way over blown and largely an excuse for not practicing. Of all the things in life to panic about........a target?
Jodie,
"Target panic is way over blown and largely an excuse for not practicing. Of all the things in life to panic about........a target? "
I have to completely disagree with this statement. If you encounter a deer and think of this as a target as you phrased it and experience none of the effects of adrenaline or "shakes" then I feel sorry for you. Maybe you've hunted and shot hundreds of animals in your life but my first deer I ever harvested, my foot was stomping in the tree stand and I couldn't control it. I felt like my heart was going to jump out of my chest. These feelings still held onto me after I had found the deer. I still get this similar feeling when looking through my scope on my gun or through the site on my compound bow at a deer. Earlier this season I got my first deer during the archery season and these feelings/emotions/biological characteristics grabbed me so I have to disagree strongly with your statement. You can practice for hours and hours, when buck fever has you all bets are off!
Target panic is real , many people suffer from it . Its not specific to a compound , but its real . Hunting being turned into a joke is more important issue . Let’s take a closer look at what is behind bad behavior in the deer woods. Many are consumed with the measuring of a antler that sticks up from the head of a deer . And they will do anything and everything for this measurement to be a number that will bring them much praise . Or they are bent on eating as much venison as they possibly can . How do these ideas even begin to work in a state where thousands of people want to hunt and see deer . If you apply what we know about how deer grow and what it takes there is no reason to place so much concern over how big . And because food is everywhere and most people actually eat too much , shooting deer after deer just to eat them is a problem . These ideas are low level and actually a sign of mental illness . It is true . More concern over how a deer is actually hunted and what tools are being used . This will pave to way for a quality experience and put the focus on things that are of value .
Target panic is not exactly the same as buck fever. Many claim to have target panic when at a 3D shoot, no living animal. It is a mental state of mind, nothing else. No weapon will cure it.
So now yoire able to see it from the hwy?
The gas stations are loaded too. The deer will not starve in the northwoods, at least until after hunting season!
The worst part about all of that bait heading North? Most of them empty white feed sacs will be blown out of their trucks and end up in the ditch! Its really fun digging them out of our highway dept. mowers next summer when they get wrapped up in the disc mowers! UGHHHH!
I live in Ashland County and I find it difficult to blame the northern hunters, its sadly a result of economics, populations, and bad habit.
First, compound bows. It generates more revenue for the state plain and simple because it sells more licenses. I also am not a fan and refuse to ever purchase one, unless of physical limitation. But with consistent DNR cuts, that is an easy way to bring in revenue. Its also easier and that draws more people, as we continue to want conveniences with everything.
I'm very fortunate to hunt my own property, but from what I see gun season turns the most normal guy into a competitive, selfish ass regardless of where you live, north or south. I know local folks that hunt public land and have hunted the same place for sometimes decades therefore they think its 'theirs'. Someone moves in and there is a conflict.
Regarding bait, I believe there is a mentality that if I don't bait than I don't stand a chance to get something because everybody else is hunting over bait. Also, the larger the pile, the more 'lucrative' it is with the deer (whatever, they are browser's, size doesn't matter). Deer numbers up here have been so low for the past roughly 6+ years that many felt this was their only chance. I know many guys that also season never saw a tail. Now many deer are bait hoppers.
My biggest concern is that we are now 'teaching' the next generation of hunters some really bad habits internally and externally.
With all of that said, best of luck to all of you.
I agree with what Bow Cubs Bow says about bad habits. Many people who are reliant on the bait pile have no clue how to find deer by any other method and when the going gets tough they struggle even more.
Hunters that have never relied on bait know how to scout and cover ground and find deer sign and may have a better chance of finding deer. At least they're learning about deer and how to hunt...
Tid bits from that article...
Store owner complaining- "Our license sales are down. You know, you can understand that. If people can buy their license at home on their computer, they don't have to go out," said Grigg.
Grigg says the low deer numbers and the baiting ban in Oneida, Vilas, and Forest counties isn't helping. "The baiting ban, I'm sure, has hurt quite a bit on license sales. I've talked to guys who aren't even going to hunt because they can't bait," Grigg said.
The use of the word "rigmarole" in a paper made me chuckle- "It's too much rigmarole. People don't like to go through a bunch of hunky-dory," said Grigg. "They just want to go hunt."
"Especially for the younger kids, we noticed that they'd rather sit in the cabin than or sit at home and play their video games than go freeze out in the tree stand and seeing nothing."
By the way, in most northern counties the crossbow kills are significantly above real bow kills for 2016. Just an FYI for those who do not think bowhunting is dying.
I use to be the guy that hunted over bait and I definitely believe it pushed deer to be even more nocturnal. I always wanted to put in food plots and did it this last year. It was a ton of work but worth it. Deer seem to come into the plots without being so nervous now. Its way more natural to them. I'm in vilas county and I'm glad you legally can't bait anymore. If it were to become legal again I wouldn't do it. Food plots are the way to go
Could someone explain the difference between baiting and putting in food plots. Seems to me both are done for the advantage of luring deer to your spot and keeping them coming back. The vast majority of people planting food plots don't do it to feed the deer. Lets be honest, how many people would spend the time and money to plant if they didn't hunt it. I could care less if you plant, bait still hunt or make drives as long as you have a great time doing so and have memories to hold onto from doing it. Everyone has the right to hunt anyway they choose as long as it is legally and safely.
I will be mentoring my grandson this weekend and waiting to get back bow hunting in a week or so. Last minute change as of last night by son. No stands set up for two, no blinds set up, not even a for sure spot to go. It will be old school boots to the ground tomarrow for me, at least for the majority of the am. Good luck to all this season and have a safe hunt.
Im surprised during the election that Wisconsin didnt show up as a yellow state.
Trout, I suspect there are many others like myself who plant food plots designed to feed the deer later in the winter. Being in farmland, I cannot compete with the thousands of acres of corn and beans, in addition to the natural foods available. What I plant are plots designed to help feed the deer during a time of year when much of the natural and ag foods are gone from the landscape.
Thanks capt m. It is honorable for you to do so....I know around by me, some farmers leave standing corn for the wildlife in the winter.
If people were serious about helping deer they would do things to provide natural browse and thermal cover.
Retro, why do you assume that those who embrace one endeavor do not do others as well? The immediate conversation was regarding food plots. Maybe try starting a thread about "serious" deer helpers. You may learn something?
If I was not a hunter, no way in a million years would I spend my time and money creating food plots. Since I am a hunter and do it, I love that they provide lots of nutrition in all seasons. I look at it at the macro level. But, I'd never plant if there were not deer.
Happy's reponse was kind of what I was getting at...Im curious how many food plot planters are anti bait people. Seems to me it is done for the same reason in many instances. Just my opinion...could be wrong. For example, someone has say, 160 acres and plants a 5 acre food plot to help hold deer in the area to hunt. Someone else has 5 acres and puts out 2 galloons of apples every few days to help keep deer coming in their little patch. I find it hard to see a difference.
The difference is this. Food plots can only be established on private lands. Baiting, where legal, can be done on private and public lands. Eliminate baiting and the public land hunter losses out, while private food plotters gain an advantage. That is exactly why many private land owner QDM type guys want to eliminate baiting, it helps them hoard and keep deer within their private lands.
You make a good point xtrout.
If I had my own land and wasn't a hunter, I suspect I would still plant plots and do anything else I could do for habitat/wildlife improvements. I really enjoy seeing all types of wildlife and if improving my property would help that I would do it.
There is NO difference. Food plots are planted to kill deer over. Plain and simple. For some reason (big money) they have become a politically correct way to bait deer on to a property. They have become as big of a crutch for people as bait piles.
There is NO difference. Food plots are planted to kill deer over. Plain and simple. Maybe "plain" to a "simple" guy. At any rate, you guys keep beating it up, meanwhile, I'll take a walk and make sure the fence is still on. Wouldn't want them eating too early...
crusader, I totally agree. If I had more land I would do the same. I had a couple that used to live next door to me and they put out bait all the time and still do at their new place. Neither hunt or even own a weapon, they just like to watch the wildlife. They put out corn all winter long for the deer and such. It is pure enjoyment for them. On the other hand the landowner behind me (which lives 200 mile away and is up 2 days aweek from spring thru gun season, found out that I bowhunt a few years ago when he was up and (I asked permission to go on his land and recover a deer).The very next summer he planted about 4 acres of corn right in the middle of his heavily wooded 80 and leaves it stand. I think its great that he leaves it stand for the deer for the winter but I do believe it was an alternative motive in doing so. As I stated before there is plenty of standing corn in the area left by farmers for the deer.
The key phrase there is "your entire property." Really don't care what you or anyone else think. My property, my choice.
Neverbait (Fred) "lazy donkey city dwellers" Wow....when you get a chance try looking at the shared revenue numbers and youll see the urban areas in this state only get back $.80-90 on the $1. I have respect for al people no matter where they live. There's hard workers and bums everywhere.
Not beating anything up Capt. Just stating the obvious. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Typical responses and jargon from the same people.
I have a customer who lives on ten wooded acres surrounded by other ten acre wooded parcels. They have a pond int there front yard. The husband had half of his front yard replanted in food plot so they could sit on their deck and watch the deer. His is not a hunter. Every time I do a project for him he raves about all the AWSOME thing he sees all year long. The turkeys fighting, big bucks,etc. he pays someone to re-plant the plot for spring, summer, winter forage. All that $ just to watch the wildlife. (I did give him a paintball gun so he can shoot the coyotes) he's gotten a direct hit on three so far.
Neverbait, "lazy city dwellers"???? The only reason I don't own hunting land is because my wife and I want to retire to the mountains in AZ. In order to finance our dream we now own two beachfront rental homes in Mexico. (I suggest anyone looking for a huge return on investment look into this) the mortgage on my own home will be paid off next October. A whole 6 years after buying it. Within two years we will begin the search for our dream ranch in the mountains. 34 years old buddy, grew up on welfare and had my first son when I was 16. Lazy??? I bust my ass to have what we do and make our dreams come true. When you paint with a brush that broad you may strike a nerve! Eventually I will have a nice chunk of Wisconsin hunting land to call my own but our priorities are not there at this point. And yes I will make that land the best wildlife habitat I possibly can and no, it will not be fenced.
The responses are typical. Its hilarious how many guys try to deny that food plots are bait and are done for the purpose of congregating and killing deer.
Kill plot
Kill plot
They never let this one in the beach grow. Look at the seclusion cage. They are still in there digging up the little that remains.
They never let this one in the beach grow. Look at the seclusion cage. They are still in there digging up the little that remains.
3rd of the kill plots. They come in all shapes and sizes and were planted with different goodies.
3rd of the kill plots. They come in all shapes and sizes and were planted with different goodies.
"The responses are typical. Its hilarious how many guys try to deny that food plots are bait and are done for the purpose of congregating and killing deer. "
You'll never hear that from me retro. I admitted above that I would not plant them if they did not attract deer or if I was not a hunter.
When I added 4 plots (3 are smaller kill plots in the woods) to my crappy cedar swamp land this year in the UP, it was done with the premise that they would be differentiators and draw deer from all over because all the neighbors had the same crappy land I do. There is not much for food sources in the land. Holy crap did my plan work. The 3 kill plots in the woods all hold lots of deer as does the one bigger plot we opened up. They are working as designed. We have far more deer, bucks included, on our landscape than we did last year in my 1st year of ownership. We even attracted a big ass bear who likes the plots.
A baiting vs food plot thread is like pissing in the wind. I don’t believe the op intended that. And yeah food plots have really caused problems in the north, especially on public land.
Maybe Retro needs to list those who deny food plots are done for the purpose of congregating and killing deer. My guess is the list will be short to non-existent. Of course they are done to attract deer and in most cases to then kill one of them. The food plots are just one component of many that land owners do to attract and increase the number of deer on their property. As he so astutely noted earlier, some of the others are to provide habitat and water. Apparently he and Neverbait would prefer that landowners do nothing to their properties, just so the two of them can wander aimlessly and occasionally kill a deer? But, I must agree with him, sometimes the truth hurts. What those two should be doing is thanking the private land owners who help to bolster the number of deer on the landscape. Most landowners who work to improve their land are particular about the deer they shoot and through proper management, provide a better quality deer herd for all.
The DNR has no problem with food plots. They have a problem with baiting because they don't want deer nose to nose in a bait pile because of CWD. If you don't like food plots that's fine but why crucify people because they choose to have them. Food plots help the deer herd up north. Yep I hunt over my food plots and kill 1 or 2 deer a year while all the other deer get great nutritional benefits from it. Its not just deer that benefit from food plots. Grouse ,bears, turkey,s, deer, rabbits all benefit and i dont hunt all of them just deer. Like somebody else said it's my land and my choice and food plots will never go away. The deer herd up here isn't good and food plots can only help not hurt the population
Hey Happygolucky, do you mind sharing what you planted in each of those spots? And when you planted them? Been trying different things with mixed success. Thanks
Nobody, I don't want to derail this thread so feel free to pm me and I'll give you more specifics. I'll throw this quick synopsis out there.
1st pic: winter rye, oats, Austrian winter peas, radishes, clover - planted in August 2nd pic: Grandpa Ray's Outdoors (sponsor on this site, see link) Soil Builder Mix - planted in May and then Fall Draw broadcast into existing growth in August 3rd pic: Fall Draw and rape planted in July (mostly failed due to lack of rain) and then added some of same mix from #1 in August. The deer never let this one grow up and are still digging stuff up. They like the area. 4th pic: This was a hope and a prayer due to being in the middle of tag alders, buckthorn, and cedars that I opened up. You can see all the stumps. Wasn't sure if anything would grow. Grandpa Ray's Logging Trail mix and radishes. They don't like this one as much now that it got cold. All the clover and radishes are gone and only the high sugar ryegrass and fescue remains. Will Gly this out next summer and do differently. I was surprised at how well it grew though given the terrible terrain it grew in.
I've been playing around with food plots for several years now and I have never killed a deer off of one. However, yes it does pull more deer onto my 60 acres and my deer sightings have increased as a result. The food plots are part of an overall improvement plan and my land is scheduled to be logged soon.
There's a big difference between somebody who improves their land to make it attractive and improve habitat for deer and other animals on a year-round basis and somebody who owns a small chunk of land with no deer habitat and the only reason deer even go on that property is to eat from a bait pile. People seem to feel that just because they have a chunk of land they are entitled to have deer on it even if there is nothing there for the deer so they dump bait to bring the deer in.
I bought 50 of the 60 acres that I live on from a guy who baited regularly. During the many years that we were neighbors, the few deer that were on our properties were mostly nocturnal because of the bait piles and the activity that surrounded baiting. All that time he could have planted food plots in existing small fields that were just full of weeds but instead he chose to dump piles of corn and sunflower seeds. Since I bought the property, did away with the bait piles and started planting food plots both habitat and deer sighting have improved immensely.
My biggest issue with baiting is how it results in the claiming of public property. When people bait on public land they end up claiming public land and becoming possessive over the deer that are coming to their bait piles. That's selfish and wrong.
Food plots on public land never have been and never will be a problem. The same can't be said for baiting on public land. End the practice of baiting and it's a level playing field; everybody can still hunt, it's that simple.
If you want to have a food plot, then buy some land and plant away all you want.
And don't throw out the excuse "I can't afford land so it's not fair". Some of those people who feel it's not fair that they can't afford to buy land also don't have a problem claiming public land. I don't get that mentality...
Whats the difference between baiting for deer compared to baiting for bear on public land? Just curious since it seems that people generally don't have a problem with bear baits.
None. Both methods are designed to lure an animal to a specific spot. Of course they are different creatures with different habits but when you get right down to it, they both are meant to do the same thing.
The question wasn't:
"What's the difference between the GOAL of baiting for deer compared to the GOAL of baiting for bear?"
Yes they both have the same goal and technically there's not a lot of difference. Realistically though there is a difference because the number of bear tags is limited and regulated and therefore the number of bear hunters is much less. There is no limit on the number of deer hunters so there are way more deer hunters creating much more potential for conflict.
The other very significant difference is the fact that baiting is not necessary to effectively hunt deer. Yes it may be easier but it is far from necessary. All you have to do is look at the success rates of states and counties that don't allow baiting or the success rates of many hunters who don't bait. Yes, baiting may make it "easier" and/or a lot of deer hunters may think that it is necessary but in reality it isn't.
Bear on the other hand would be very difficult to hunt in Wisconsin without bait. We don't have the opportunity for spot and stalk, etc. like some of the western states. I think the only effective way to hunt bear in Wisconsin is with bait and/or hounds but the number of hunters has to be limited to reduce conflicts.
Yes, baiting deer and baiting bear are both meant to do the same thing but the effect on other hunters is much less with bear baiting.
CM, first you state, "The question wasn't: What's the difference between the GOAL of baiting for deer compared to the GOAL of baiting for bear?" I assume that was meant for me as I am the only one to respond. Yet, you sum up your post saying, "Yes, baiting deer and baiting bear are both meant to do the same thing but the effect on other hunters is much less with bear baiting." I could be a smart-alec and say the question wasn't about the effect on other hunters but it is not worth a peeing match on semantics, particularly when it appears we agree.
Yes CM I believe that you and I agree for the most part and we also have the same initials.
Tweed asked "what's the difference?" and you answered "none" and your reasoning is because they have the same goal.
You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree with the "none" part of your answer. Just because they have the same goal does not mean there are no differences.
I also don't think semantics has anything to do with it. My statement was a direct answer to his question. You are correct that the question wasn't about the effect on other hunters, Tweed simply asked "what's the difference?" My statement that you quoted was part of my answer to Tweed about the differences, i.e. the affect on hunters is one of the differences.
Using your philosophy it may not be possible to answer Tweeds question because no matter what I answered you could say he didn't ask that.
Happy, Your honesty is refreshing. Never will understand why people have such a hard time admitting the same? Food plots are legal but for some reason guys are real sheepish about admitting they are planted to make killing deer easier. Weird!!!!!
Mike & Mike - I left it vague exactly for these types of comments. The effect on bears, deer, hunters, property owners, public land hunters, sportsmanship. Anything you veterans of the woods can think of I'd like your 2 cents.
I believe that baiting deer with corn piles and food plots is the biggest reason crossbows have become the new popular rage. Condo stands and crossbows go together like pork chops and applesauce.
I posted this in the gun hunting thread but probably should have posted it here instead.
I walked (can't say I was really hunting but had the gun with) two public land parcels that used to have deer on them. I was curious as to what sign I would find. First parcel, next to a county road, I think 120 acres logged a few years ago. Tough walking as you might expect except on the skid trails. I think there is one deer on it based on how little track there was with 3 days and 3 nites of snow on it.
Second parcel, huge area with roads going thru it. There was one truck parked on about 7 miles of road. I walked about a mile of closed road and saw 1 track. Bough pickers had been on it even tho it is a closed road.
I hunted a spot near there yesterday, again only one track even tho someone had been dumping corn in front of his blind. (he could only see a narrow path to the bait pile, really nothing else. How stupid is that?)
I have hunted that area for 30 years and we did quite well back then, it is sad, terribly sad.
This area is where I had two bear baits this year and was getting wolf pictures at both sites. The deer in Sawyer county will never recover unless something is done with all the wolfs.
I'll add onto what many of you are already saying and what I have been saying for a number of years, predators and baiting is out of control. And then we have back to back brutal winters, while overharvesting does, and here many of us are today worried about the future of a quality bowhunting experience in the northwoods. I also now think we need to add the crossbow into the discussion as having a potential large impact on a limited resource.
I was lucky enough this past week to have Mr. Wolf out of the area (although he could be heard several miles to the south each day just past dusk) and most hunters packed up and heading home by Sunday afternoon. So I got to see what my area is capable of without pressure and wolves-even with very low deer densities. Scrapes were being opened up on Monday and Tuesday after the Saturday onslaught and bucks were back on their feet during daylight searching. I wish I could have stayed all week.
However, the two small groups hunting my area filled their tags with small bucks. I'm not going to preach or say you can't shoot small bucks, but when group after group fill up on small bucks, age structure goes out the window and guess who complains next year when there are no "nice" ones around. I also base that statement on talking to several groups and driving around to see what was hanging on buck poles. I'm not telling anyone how to hunt, because we all have a different definition of what a quality hunt can and should be. I think you know my definition. ;) But it sure seems like we have gone from over harvesting does to overharvesting yearling bucks.
A friend of mine who hunted with me for three days in Bayfield Co., has a friend who is a biologist in northern Wisconsin and we shared our observations with him yesterday on the number of yearlings harvested and seemingly no mature bucks. He said that is what they are hearing as well. We also checked with a contact in another area in Sawyer County that used to be our stomping grounds and the harvest was extremely skewed toward yearling bucks. I guess this is a consequence of no doe harvest as many hunters are mainly meat hunters and finally a decent fawn crop two year ago when we got a mild winter after two brutal ones.
Yes, it's bad up there, but at times I get a glimpse of what it could be like if hunters and the managers of our natural resources got on the same page. Wishful thinking perhaps with the diverse agendas and hostilities, but it's difficult for me to give up on the northwoods hunting experience.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Along the lines of what musky buck said...
I was also thinking based on observations on the private land we gun hunted in Sawyer county. We saw very few doe but no bucks. We were thinking that small bucks are being shot by people that might normally shoot a doe for the table but since that was not allowed anything goes was the their choice on bucks. After several years of this now we are seeing the results.
Combine that with the wolf population and the previous bad winters it is sort of a 'perfect storm'.
At the spring meeting where they discussed what the deer committee would recommend for doe permits the DNR ag deer rep said there were a few farms with some crop damage from deer but it could be easily handled with some crop damage tags.
The majority of gun deer hunters will shoot any antlered buck. They are and will always be a fill-a-tag group. Gun hunters will as a group always complain. The north is what it is, a tough hunt. Want a trophy and higher chances? Hunt south and private land and pay a high price.
Yes, we need to limit predators but realize what the north always has for carrying capacity for deer is.
Hunted our gun season stomping grounds in the forest of Sawyer county. None shot, few seen. Did a lot of 1 man drives to my 2 kids and bumped a few to them, all does. Of the miles walked doing this, it looked to be small pockets of deer in areas. They seemed to be just scattered and moving all over and not any specific place. Areas with a lot of deer sign in the spring looked to be decimated during the summer with wolves and other predators, but mainly wolves from the reports of bears hunters loosing dogs and the tracks I found. The places I have/had with the best deer sign past and present seemed to be popular with others since those were the only spots with hunters. Not many hunters at all other than those places. Did find the remnants of a cut up doe opening morning that wasn't there Friday evening. Being that I was seeing more and more deer up there the past two years compared to this year, something big had happened in my hunting area. I feel the combination of predators and the night hunting that is allowed now thinned the deer down drastically. The places I found with buck sign looked to be hunted hard during the bow season also, and with the limited buck sign I found those places were over hunted. It is sad to see up there, and will always go up there to hunt those big woods, but the deer herd is hurting bad. The north is going to loose a lot of revenue if it continues and nothing is done about it. The other scary thing was the limited amount of fawn tracks around. Something needs to be done, but unfortunately with the blind mentality of the liberal public and a certain judge that is allowing this, the future looks bleak.
Live2hunt. "The north is going to loose a lot of revenue if it continues and nothing is done about it." Your comment is to late.
Yes, I actually thought I should had said "did loose there revenue" after I posted it.
I hunt in vilas county and this ranks as the worst gun season I have ever seen. 2 hunters and only 4 deer seen and just not many tracks in our woods. I will still continue to hunt because it's time spent with my dad but not with much optimism. If it gets any worse than this I don't know how it can be turned around
If you think the last two winter kills were bad, just wait until the next rough winter with the now imposed baiting and feeding ban in several northern counties.
Missouribreaks, just what are you talking about? The last two winters were mild and little if any winter kill. Baiting and feeding ban? Not in this area.
Guys here's a tip check out the map for dog depredations for each year. This being 2016 I would not have waisted time hunting in areas where depredations have taken place this fall. While it doesn't give you places to hunt it does tell a story as where to avoid.
I was referring to a previous post, "the last two deer killing winters", not the last two winters. That is what I was talking about!
Drop Tine- I don't think that's a good tip at all as those packs can be in an area one day and 10 miles away the next. Just because there wasn't depredation in certain areas doesn't mean there not there.
It's a good tip as most of the depredations happen in rondeviou sites. They happen to spend a lot of time in these areas because the pups can't travel long distances. Long time in one area = lots of killing to feed the pack and pups. Use it or not it's no skin off my back.
Funny now that I think about it, the past two years I've seen more and more deer up in Sawyer county. This past year was terrible for sign and sightings. This was also the first hunting season after Night hunting was made legal. Food for thought?
By 6 weeks old they are already venturing out over a mile and by the time September roles around those so called pups are traveling miles each day and now hunting with the pack. Now if these dogs were getting killed in the Spring it would be a different story, it would be in the denning areas and I would stay out of those areas. That depredation map and the kill sites, well, you could drive 15 miles in every direction and still run across the same wolf pack. No matter where you hunt these days your in wolf country. Just saying.
