Lucky for him......
Connecticut
November 26th (my birthday) headed to a spot where I know some big deer are. One in particular I'm after. On stand by 5:30 at 7:08 a shot goes off from a couple properties over. I had met a fella that just had purchased a piece in that direction on the 22nd. So I get a phone call shortly after stating that he had shot a decent 8 and not hit him well. I've hunted this trac for 20 years at this point so I knew where the buck was headed I told him to hang tight and give him a couple hours. So after an hour he decided to track him. He sent him directly my way with Minor leg wound...I dropped him in his tracks...biggest deer I ever killed. But in all fairness he sent him my way...but tough call seeing how I put the fatal shot on him. I helped him drag it back to his house. He couldn't be any happier..I get as much excitement out of A freind/neighbor harvesting a giant but was tough for me this time to be happy for Him since he had put a poor shot on such a incredible animal...I spend a lot of time away from my kids and wife to go after these smart critters...kudos to him...right time and place...lucky for him I was on stand to finish the job!
Wow! unique rack.
Fatal shot, not first shot is entitled to the deer, or so I understand it. Taking the deer because of a minor wound to the leg, is ridiculous. Well...... you cut his head off so we don't have to look at him..... I guess that's justifiable. I hope you didn't singe his cape on the muffler.
Great palmation on the rack. Regardless of who physically takes the deer you absolutely get credit for the kill. Way to go, taking him quickly with a well placed arrow in the boiler room.
Congrats dude!!!..one good turn.....
That is one special rack.. Gotta say. I've never bothered to have anything mounted, but that one would have me into SERIOUS negotiations with the Missus...
I honestly can't tell you what I would have done if I were in your position. Legally, it was 100% yours... unless you take into account the regs (don't know if we have them here) which prohibit electronic communication between hunters for the purpose of pursuing or taking game, though perhaps ethically that gets waived because the animal was already hit. Sounds as if you probably wouldn't have killed that buck on that day without that phone call... but maybe next week? "Minor" wound, who knows...?
But I CAN tell you what I would have done if I were the other guy... He made a bad shot; sounds likely that it would have been entirely survivable, but you bailed him out so that the deer didn't suffer. I like to think that I would have thanked you and helped you drag him out... with YOUR tag on him.
GF - I agree! I would take absolutely no pride in making a bad shot, and even less pride is saying it was my deer after another hunter put the deer down. My guess, he's a newbie and was more interested in coming home with a real trophy than the ethics involved in the kill. Years from now he may look back and regret the situation,......but some guys never do.
if you shot with the bow it is technically his deer...if it is a gun kill your deer...
Jax out of curiosity what makes the difference with the bow situation? I was under the impression whoever makes the fatal shot?
Bow: 1st lethal hit. Gun: Who anchored him.
That's sort of the convention.
I have to say - there's no consensus or written rule on either the gun or bow kill scenarios. To me, I don't care if it's a bow or gun used, whoever delivered the killing shot has right to the deer, ESPECIALLY if the first hunter who wounded it did not have permission to access the deer on the PRIVATE land where the wounded deer ended up.
Ace - what do you mean by anchored him? I've seen 3 legged deer in the woods that survived for years. In fact, I hit one with my truck years ago, the half leg was completely healed over and the deer jumped 15 feet from the side of the road into the path of my truck. Luckily he stumbled due to the short leg and went under my trucks wheels, instead of wiping out the front end.
Bonehead I grew up hunting areas with a lot of hunting pressure. If you had shot a deer you had better b there within minutes or someone else would claim it. Even if a fatal shot that was not necessary just to claim the deer they would shoot it again. This is not one of those situations but what I'm getting at is if a wounded deer is walking by you and you take the shot and drop him he's your deer.. I know he's your neighbor and you don't want to argue about it but he should of been man enough to realize that its your deer.. If you didn't kill him he would prob be still out in the woods suffering.. So imo I believe the deer is rightfully yours.. What an awesome rack..
I am not sure...either in the hunting class or a law book....this was years ago and always the rules we followed....
if you called the Warden he tries to determine who put the fatal blow...I heard of some cases where the warden made them flip for it
bonehead....I think the intention is the fatal shot with bow....so If I shoot a deer with a bow...it runs 200 yards in front of a another hunter and it is a dead deer walking and he shoots it too it is the first hunters deer
but if it is a leg hit or guts it would be the second hunter....that is what my crew and I have always followed...I thought that was the law but I could be mistaken....
Tough situation, definitely a birthday I won't forget!
here is where I found it
The "International Bowhunter Education Manual" state the "Unwritten Law of the Bowhunter" it is also called the rule of first blood and mortal wound. This means that the first person to wound a animal in a vital area causing a sufficient sign trail he can follow, and thus having a good chance of recovery if not for other hunters, has the right to claim the kill.
better get permission on his land after this .
Ha! Thought the same thing Steve!!
There is no LAW that I know of to cover this. This is all about ethics and respecting another person's shot. Think of this way - Is that deer really going to change your life for the better? So you did the right thing in my book.
"Bow: 1st Lethal hit. Gun: Who anchored him. That's sort of the convention."
All that says is that bowhunters adhere to a higher standard of sportsmanship than gunners!
And historically, that may well have been true... Back when archery seasons came about, there were only a few serious archers out there, and maybe they were more likely to feel a sense of brotherhood than competitiveness... and I think you can argue that those days are mostly gone.
But it's not entirely arbitrary, either...
For one thing, a mortally-wounded archery deer is expected (rightly or wrongly) to be able to cover more ground after the shot, so it is (presumably) a lot more likely that a situation involving a second lethal shot would arise among archers. Especially (again) if you think back to when bowhunters routinely conducted deer drives and took low-percentage shots the likes of which are generally frowned upon these days...
In other words, people expect a mortally wounded firearms deer to flop over on the spot, which explains why a lot of gun-hunters will dismiss a poor shot as a clean miss or figure "Aw, I only winged him... no sense spending the rest of the day chasing down a healthy deer..." (and ironically, the expectation of a Boom-Flop hit seems to push a lot of hunters towards more and more powerful cartridges... resulting in poorer shooting... resulting in a whole new crop of Whoop-Ass Mags every twenty years or so...).
There's no Stupid like Voluntary Stupid, is there??
But the other, more sinister side of it is that if a guy tells you that the deer that you just shot is actually HIS... I've always heard that possession is 9/10ths of the law.. and having two heavily-armed individuals arguing over a sack of meat and bones can't go anywhere good.
As I said last night... I've never run across this situation (and hope not to), but I like to think that if I ever finish off a deer that someone else has hit ... if he can Find it, he can Have it.
Maybe not if it's a trivial wound in 6" of fresh snow, but if a guy has the skills and the fortitude to trail a wounded deer all the way to where I shot it, I couldn't say with a clear conscience that he wouldn't have recovered it if not for me. And anyone willing and able to work that hard should be rewarded - NOT taught that following up isn't worth the effort.
So maybe that gets back to the original thought... Maybe the old-time bowhunters expected these things to happen from tie to time and felt obligated to make it worth a guy's while to stick it out on a trail.
I personally would honor first blood. I shoot a wounded deer and some comes alone tracking, I let them take it. That's what grandpa told me I should do.
Hey, Crow - thank you. You just confirmed some of my speculation there...
But FWIW... Did this neighbor trail the wounded buck to your property line and call you when he got there, or did he just wing the deer and then put out an APB so that anyone in the area would know that he was staking a claim on that buck?
Bone head you're one of the best men on this site because of what you did .God bless you and I hope you get what you want out of life.you da man
There is an old case out of New York that is actually one of the first cases taught to students in law school about property law. PIERSON v. POST, 3 Cai. R. 175; 1805 N.Y. LEXIS 311 (NY 1805). It sets the test as "the mortal wounding of such beasts, by one not abandoning his pursuit" While you probably could have claimed it legally, you are better off doing the decent thing in this situation. Having said that, the first shooter ought to offer you a backstrap - not a legal requirement but back on the right way to do things.
Did you drop him in his tracks with a bow? Looks like he was hit in the neck. Minor leg wound? How minor? Nice of you to let him have the deer, but i feel like there is another side to the story. Really nice buck either way.
He said his wife was a fantastic cook and would call me to have my wife and I over..if he does or not who knows. But the thought was nice..
I like the question asked - "did this guy track the deer onto your private property? Did he call you first? Did he seek permission to trespass?" The answers should tell you something about the type of hunter you have hunting next to you.
Thats might nice of you to do that. I guess at my age now, I would have taken a pic with the deer and guy to remember the moment and help him bring the deer to his home. Pop open a few beers, take some more pics and then help him start cutting it up. I believe in karma, who knows maybe now you have a friend for life that will be there for you when you need it most. Its only a deer, get back out there and kill another. Great job!
Bone, Sure was a nice thing you did to give him that deer, but that was your deer, if it was a body shot maybe I could see it but not with a leg shot. your a true sportsman and I hope all this leads to a good friendship and he gets you permission on that property .
"All that says is that bowhunters adhere to a higher standard of sportsmanship than gunners!"
GF: Actually (as Bone said) it refers more to the fact that even with a lethal hit, (IE: heart or lung shot), the deer can easily run several hundred yards. If someone else shoots it just before it drops, he shouldn't really expect to claim the deer. Bonehead, I give you a lot of credit, I think you took the high road, it says a lot about you. You now have Karma on your side, that's never a bad thing.
This is what happened to me probably fifty years ago. First, there were very few deer in East Texas at the time. Sometimes you could go a whole season without seeing a buck. Second, I hunted strictly for the meat. If it was legal, I tried to kill it. I had kids to feed !
We were hunting some of the National Forest lands and come across a guy on opening morning that said he had shot a buck's leg off. I knew where he was hunting because I saw him come out of the woods. I knew that stretch of the woods like the back of my hand because I squirrell hunted there a lot. I asked the guy about blood traing and he said there wasn't enough to trail. He seemed uninterested in trying to find the buck, so after lunch I told my brother " I'm gonna go kill that buck ". Of course he laughed and said " Good luck ". I walked the quarter of a mile or so and eased into the wooda where I thought the buck would have gone. Slipping along like I was squirrell hunting except watching eye level and not the treetops. Sure enough, I saw the buck get up out of his bed and I killed him. I didn't offer the deer or even offer to share the deer mostly because the guy hadn't been interested in following up himself. I would do the same today under the same circumstances.
In this area, "The first FATAL hit" is considered the owner. So that would answer the who killed it question as far as I am concerned, no further discussion needed.
But... what I would do next, would depend entirely on the other party. Obviously, if he is a complete cloaca, I keep the deer. If he is a super nice guy, maybe I do give it to him. I would sure like to think I would. Although that is a dandy buck, I actually do have a couple larger and probably would not mount him. So, why not give it to him. I hope I would think that way. Might depend on my mood, that day. Either way, great gesture on the true killer's part. Goes along way to adavance good relations.
Bowriter, the ones you have larger are the CT deer? If so snap a quick photo if you don't mind would love to see them!
That's a great story….MegaMan. Your friends last name isn't Rob by any chance is it?
Mega man if you read the first post I am the guy that gave up the deer not the one who took the deer.
I have been in this situation only one time and it was when we could rifle hunt well into December (1986). I was hunting private land in Hartland. It was very cold and a good amount of snow on the ground. I heard ice breaking as something was coming thru the swamp were I was set up. I saw the deer and it looked like a doe. I shot as it came out of the swamp,breaking the shoulders. The deer did a nose dive and was dead by the time I walked over to it. It turned out to be a good sized buck that had already dropped his rack. Before I started field dressing the buck I heard more ice braking in the swamp and turned and saw a hunter coming my way. He told me that he had shot the buck on state land and had been tracking it for 2 hours. When we examined the deer we found a 4 inch gash in the bottom of it's belly not even opening up the cavity. It was real obvious who had killed the deer and the other hunter acknowledged the deer was mine. We talked for I while, shook hands and off he went in the direction he had come from. No question of ownership on that one thankfully. I have heard horror stories about guys arguing over a deer.
spectacular deer
BoneHead you are a magnanimous individual -
Anybody who shoots a deer in the leg should subordinate any claim on the deer-
I don't know what the rules are but in this case the situation is cut and dry - I would be embarrassed and disgusted with myself -
But it gave an opportunity to demonstrate a real overture of generosity on your part -
It took me many years to learn that your value in this life is not what you get for yourself but rather what you do for others -
A much bigger honor trophy is on you man - congrats
Thanks Rich! Thanks everyone!
Happy to share the woods with you, Bonehead.
Ace - if you read my follow-up posts, I think we're on the same page pretty much across the board...
One thought that occurred based on some other folks' posts, though.... if I were in Bonehead's boots and it was a deer I had no plans to have mounted, I'd let the guy have it if he wanted it. Maybe split the meat if I was running low.
It's just that for me, that would be a Career Deer, and IMO the animal being shot by someone else is only/just as serious a consideration as the wound itself.... under the circumstances, might not be any different than if the guy had merely bumped it out of its bed or missed clean.
"It sets the test as 'the mortal wounding of such beasts, by one not abandoning his pursuit'"
Ahhhh... back when laws were as sensible as they were well-expressed.
The guy Gene ran into is someone I'd like to meet. He made a shot, trailed the animal SUCCESSFULLY for a matter of hours - not abandoning his pursuit 'til the beast was down - and upon finding that his shot had not proved mortal, walked away with a clean conscience. All good.
I can't believe the guy who shot it first even wanted it. How can he hang that deer on his wall and claim he killed it? He wounded it, and not fatally.
Thanks herd manager.. That's exactly what I'm thinking. I believe if he had put a shot on the deer that had a chance to kill it I would say ok.. But that's not the case.. He wounded it.. You killed it.. Your buck.. If he wants the leg I'm sure you would be more than happy to give it to him..lol..
If I were him I wouldn't have claimed it (I wouldn't have let it go to waste or failed to follow up in an attempt to make a lethal shot) I'm not sure what I would have done but you certainly will have a good relationship with your neighbor.
I can tell you that if I were that gentleman I would have definitely not claimed the deer and I would have asked you the person who took the lethal shot to take it.
It might be a grey area if I made a poor but lethal shot...say guts?
This is an easy question for me to answer; I would have done exactly what BoneHead did. I had a similar situation when I was new to elk hunting, but I was on the receiving end of the other hunter’s generosity. Caution rifle hunt story: I jumped a bull elk down at bottom of a draw. As it was running I shot at him, hitting him several times. The bull was still in sight when another hunter shot the bull dropping it in its tracks. I immediately got pissed, I was young and this was my first bull elk. It took me some time to get down where the bull was. Once I got to the bottom of the valley I found a blood trail that led right to the bull. The other hunter was waiting at the bull when I got there. I was ready to argue with the other hunter, but luckily the other hunter was much more mature than I was. He simply said if you can show me a blood trail this is your elk. He then assisted in gutting and quartering the elk. I learned so much from that experience! My take away at the time was that in this situation or any like the animal is not worth being in a possible very bad situation. My take away now with 23 years of elk hunting experiences sense the event is that I now know that there is a good chance that I may have never recovered that elk. If I had to do it again and knew what I know now, I would have given that other hunter the elk. Live an Learn!
Wow! Beautiful deer congrats!!!!
Great deer and well done Bonehead (sounds like I am insulting you with that handle...lol). I've been hunting state land exclusively in CT and PA for 30 years and have been in similar situations 3 times during various gun seasons. I was not the initial shooter in all cases. I kept the deer in 1 situation where I did not know the other hunter but we determined that I made the fatal shot. In the other situations, friends/family were involved where there was no argument as to who tagged the deer, the initial shooter did. There was one other time as we were tracking a deer, another hunter shot at the wounded deer and missed. We were ready to give that deer to the hunter if he had dropped the deer on the spot or in close proximity. The deer ended up expiring on its own after a long track job.
Slipshot the difference is you hit the elk several times.. Not once in the leg.. Which was a graze to
Yeah, that and the fact that who wants a shot-up Elk? LOL...
But seriously... I like Elk meat too much; the only thing I like more is Elk HUNTING, so I wouldn't want to burn my tag on an animal that had been all shot to hell...
I shot a buck 45 years ago that ran up to a young kid with his father and bedded. The kid finished it off and was flying high. I congratulated the kid and walked away. Shot a nice deer later that day. The kid, now grown, owns a sporting camp behind a locked gate on 70,000 acres of timberlands. He gave me a key years ago. Kindness pays, and it's just a deer.
