Contributors to this thread:
Have any of you folks heard the status of the current bill to pass for season long crossbow usage during archery season? I was told by a friend that it was probably going to be passed? I cannot not find any current info on the topic.. Best Regards Arrwknker82
Well, the camel's nose has already penetrated the door, so anything goes in NY as long as $ is driving.
But to answer your question (sorry about the digression, lol!), I haven't heard a peep,
How about Using crossbows during gun season on Long Island
Crossbows were legal in 1C for 1 year in January Special Firearms season but that was it.
Two bills have been submitted, S1386 and A479.
There are at several bills introduced in both the Senate and the Assembly. They are referred to the environmental conservation committee and have to clear there before any action occurs. A00479 basically makes crossbows archery equipment, puts them in archery season, eliminates max. draw weight, reduces discharge distance from 250 feet to 150 feet.
A00477 is basically related to reducing the age to hunt deer and bear from 14 to 12. It includes things like using a gun, muzzleloader, bow and crossbow. Every sportsman in the state should support this bill to get youth involved at an earlier age and have a chance of keeping them interested and involved. The link takes one to the text of the bill:
I don't have or use a crossbow but was wondering if there has been an increase in harvest numbers since it was introduced ? I would imagine there hasn't been much change , I only say that because a guy that can't find a deer with a bow still isn't going to find one with a crossbow .
all a crossbow is... a horizontal re-curve or a compound with a built in release mechanism.
'and drawing and holding mechanisms.
'and require about 90% less skill and devotion.
But NY State wants to kill deer.
'and require about 90% less skill and devotion Just wonder how many have ever shoot a cross bow before making these comments!
So really what is the big gripe with crossbows? Why bring it up on this site at all, keep it seperate and off the discussion table if it bothers archers so bad. What I mean is what business is it to someone if I choose one weapon over another? I don't plan on hunting your property what do you care what I do on mine as long as it is legal? I'm not competing with you... I drive a GM pick-up, I don't care you drive a Volkswagon beetle on the same road I drive on.
I'm going to hunt with my compound bow as long as the good Lord allows because I enjoy doing it. Then I will buy a crossbow. It's my choice....... not your business! You know what I mean?
Yes I shoot crossbow. I like it. Its cool. I shoot recurve too. I also shoot high power rifle, and skeet. I like it all. 'But just not in archery season.
'But about the gripe: do you really want an answer to your question, or is it just rhetorical?
Well, I guess I never should have "gone there". But if you want to know what I have against xbows in archery season, my eye toward that is in the attached link.
But to sum it up, my 2nd post was something like this: "How about you start a special season just for xbows. that includes rifles" Yes, I'm sure plenty of good folks would like that. Fine, fine.
Bow Shot, I guess the difference between your way of thinking and mine is like liberal and conservative thought... each side does not get the others mindset, but at the end of the day you obey the law of the land ... that is Democracy.
Agrred, 100% Well said my friend.
'And I would place myself in the right-wing conservative camp, for sure, lol!
we agree 100% on that my friend... your welcome at my camp anytime!
Cxbows with muzzle loader I think all will agree on.
likewise scentman, thanks kindly!
since it has been allowed has it changed the overall harvest numbers ? The DEC asks on the website or phone when kill is reported what method of kill . Does anyone know the numbers with crossbow and has it effected overall numbers?
Dan
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/2015deerrpt.pdf Doesn't look like it effects overall numbers , doesn't look to be as big a deal as first expected ! Dan
Crossbow was in the news this week on Long Island. Apparently some jerk used one to kill a red fox in a state park. He was seen by a person in the park who gave info to police...Tom
What I am finding hilarious is that the crossbow folks are using the same arguments against the Airbow that the bowhunters used against the crossbow. To me their isn't much difference between the Airbow and the crossbow.
FULL INCLUSION HERE WE COME! (SOONER OR LATER).
Plain and simple if you don't like something don't use it I bow hunted my whole life and after neck and 3 shoulder operations I cannot pull my bow I went and bought a Xbox and couldn't pull that back until I purchased a cocking device and now I can enjoy the sport that gives me happiness
Ask states like Kansas what they think?? The big problem is crossbows turn many folks who would never even think about bow hunting into what they think are bow hunters. In other words guys who only hunted with a gun now have a weapon that is super quick to learn how to shoot, takes only the skill it takes to shoot a gun and puts them into bow season. So will it increase the kill rate,?? No doubt because it will put a lot more hunters in the woods. Studies show it is not the bow hunters who switch or use crossbows, it is the gun hunters who make the switch that use them. I recently saw where as many as 2 out of 3 guys who never bow hunted would take up the crossbow if it was allowed throughout bow season. I hope any law goes down in a hurry that would allow them into our true archery only seasons!! Shawn
I think you are being very small minded Shawn. I personally don't care who hunts with what.
There are three other guys that hunt the farm that I hunt. One used a crossbow last season and never shot at a deer with it. He didn't hurt the population one bit.
I just bought my first crossbow and love shooting it. I'm going to hunt turkeys with it this May. I might hunt deer with it this year too.
I hope they allow crossbow hunting along with archery season. It definitely is not a muzzle loader as New York State says it is.
I guess the reality of this issue has never been a simple black or white one, but rather shades of grey. I will offer my feelings on it based on 45 yrs of bow hunting only.
I think that I would agree with Shawn on his post being accurate. It may make me" small minded" but it doesn't make the post any less truthful. One thing that has amazed me about this issue is that I have NEVER met a bowhunter who has been against a disabled person or elderly bowhunter using a xbow during the bow season. Most I know however DO object to those who are not the above wanting to use this weapon in the bow season. Pogo and Conor have earned the right to hunt with this weapon during bow season but I feel that too many others will use their conditions to justify a "blanket" law change. If they are young and healthy there is no reason to use it other than looking for an unfair advantage....Tom
"Looking for an unfair advantage," like maybe a vertical bow with double cams, harmonic dampers, fall away rest, electronic lighted sights, range finders, lighted knocks, mechanical broad heads, triggered release, etc.......?
Similar debate going on on the NY Trappers forum, some trappers pissed off at the coyote and fox hunters using rifles,shotguns and electronics calls, and coyote hunting contests, because it's possibly cutting down on his trapline take. What a bunch of BS.
Here is the scenario:
I have been a gun hunter for 30 years, I enjoy hunting, I only take ethical shots. I have passed many deer because I could not put them down with one shot.
Getting older I would love to hunt in the warmer time of year bow season offers, but I do not have the time because of my job to get proficient with a bow. Now NY State is offering xbows during archery season. I bring my ethics to xbow hunting, why should I not be entitled to hunting during this time?
When the current political tide reverses (and it eventually will), significant threats shall return to our gun, hunting and trapping rights. In my opinion, sportsmen should be supporting every new law or regulation that ADDS to opportunity, even if it doesn't personally benefit you THIS time.
So if the issue with crossbows is that they are too easy an require no commintment and little practice then should we also give up our gun season because guns are easy? As far as them being legalized only for seniors and handicapped I was wondering where I fall in the scenario. I'm a senior ( 69) and still shoot recurves and longbows at about 50 lbs at my draw length. Actually I can still pull and shoot a 75 lb recurve but it is no fun. So my question is even though I can still pull my bows of choice can I still use my Excalibur matrix 355 if I choose to. I'm assuming I can if they become legal for handicap and seniors even though I don't need to. I just want to.
Silverback I believe the issue with crossbows is that there are groups in existence who do not want crossbows in "their" archery season. With this in mind they have proceeded to spread fear of crossbows bringing the decimation of the deer herd. If this was the case the herd would already be decimated because of gun season. I can fully understand why bowhunters do not want guns in archery season, noise, but there is no noise from a crossbow. Even though I do not own a crossbow nor do I intend on buying one, could someone please explain the reasoning for keeping them out of the archery season.
Look at the history of what it took to even get bow seasons. I mean ask the folks who were part of that. I know now many are getting up there in years but you would not be so quick to say they should be allowed if you knew what these pioneers did just to get an archery only season. Sorry to may guys that don't have a clue and you can argue until you are blue in the face, the numbers do not lie!! Ohio, Kansas, many others, see what it has done to their archery seasons. Sorry they are not archery equipment even by our states regulations. Read what archery equipment is defined as, it is not a crossbow. Shawn
The History of New York State Archers & Bowhunters
N.Y.F.A.B.
NEW YORK FIELD ARCHERS (NYFA) was organized in 1949 by a group of "bowhunters". The members of this group believed that the bowhunters of this State needed to group together in order to address their needs.
Dr. Paul Crouch, a bowhunter who was responsible for the two week bow season for the antlered deer in 1948, was NYFA's first Bowhunter and Conservation Chairman. Dr. Crouch, along with his successor, Bill Wadsworth, and NYFA, were instrumental in achieving many of the hunting privileges we enjoy today. These include: In 1952 it became legal to take a deer of either sex while bowhunting.
In 1967 bowhunting stamp was first issued. The stamp plus a big game license enabled a person to hunt deer with a bow in the early "bowhunting only" season.
In 1974 the bow season was extended to four weeks in the Northern Zone and to five weeks in the Southern Zone. In 1975 a five day bow season was added after the gun season. In 1976 the Junior Archery License became effective. In 1977 the pilot course of the Bowhunter Education Program began with volunteers from NYFA holding classes for all new bowhunters. In 1979 use of the mechanical release was approved for bowhunting. In 1980 the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation adopted the BEP course and required that all bowhunters complete a bowhunting training course. NOTE: This course is being used throughout the United States and the world. NYFA boasts very proudly that we piloted such a prestigious and timely program.
In 1982 NYFA becomes New York Field Archers & Bowhunters ( NYFAB). In 1986 the "second deer permit" was adopted. In 1987 NYFAB supported the Deer Search program which was adopted by the DEC.
Maybe the natural progression is the crossbow since in 1979 the mechanical release was finally approved.
Lets not forget Walt Dixon
History of New York Bowhunters
In The Beginning - As told by Walt Dixon (Charter member)
Ever wonder how we got started? Did you become a member early in NYB's history? How does an organization like NYB begin? How did we get our first members when youre dealing with all of NY State? How do you grow membership and decide what programs to create, how to deal with State government and DEC?
I was there in the beginning. I was at the very first meeting of 17 bowhunters from all over NY. We did not all know each other. How could this meeting come about when the attendees were from all across the state? Heres the story.
In central NY near Syracuse, there were a small group of bowhunters, 10 or so, that started a small archery club named Bois DArc. We met once a month to shoot, make arrows and teach ourselves and others more about traditional equipment. A few of us happened to notice an article in Bowhunter Magazine that was an interview with Greg Haskell, owner of Skyline Camo. In that interview, Greg mentioned he'd like to start a bowhunting organization in NY. Tom Weaver, a member of our club, took the time to call Greg. Tom reported that Greg had said there were several other people around the state who had called him and he'd like to arrange a meeting to discuss starting a NY State Bowhunting organization. The members of Bois DArc decided to offer Greg a place we could all meet near the center of the state. Dale Walburger made the arrangements for a meeting to be held at the Lafayette Inn? in Lafayette NY, 15 miles south of Syracuse on March 17 in 1991.
On that morning in March, 17 bowhunters from around the state met. Some were only at that first meeting, never to be seen again. Most continued to work on the project of creating and building a state bowhunting organization. Those present at that first meeting included; Greg Haskell, Ben Dodge, Tom Weaver, Dale Walburger, John Engelken, Bob Gardner, Doug Korn, Gordy Ferris, Doug Kerr, Jeff Vinson, Fadi Bahouth, Bill Webster, Michael Paul, Russell Scott, Dick Mertz, Bill Saroka and myself. After introductions, we discussed this ambitious venture and were all in agreement that a single interest group which focused only on bowhunting was needed in NY and we wanted to form one.
Up to that point the venerable New York Field Archers and Bowhunters (NYFAB) had done a tremendous job representing both bowhunting and field archery in NY. We felt their focus had changed more towards field archery and tournaments, although they still represented NY's bowhunters, and that a single interest organization representing only bowhunting was in order.
During the meeting, Ben & Greg disclosed they had worked on a set of by-laws. Gregs daughter had artistic skills and had made a tentative logo, a six point buck head in a broadhead on top of the state of NY. The meeting went on most of the day and we agreed to adopt the by-laws and logo. Most of us got out our checkbooks and wrote a check to Ben Dodge as seed money to pay our first expenses. We also decided to split the state into 3 regions; East, West and North. (Later this would become the 9 regions matching the DEC boundaries that we now have) Ben Dodge volunteered to lead us as the first president. I followed as vice, Greg Haskell as treasurer and Doug Korn offered to be secretary. Bob Gardner, Gordy Ferris, Fadi Bahouth, Michael Paul, Bill Webster, Bill Saroka, Dale Walburger and Tom Weaver became directors in our 3 regions.
In April of 1991 we had our second meeting in Coudersport, PA at Denton Hill at the Professional Bowhunters Society second year gathering?. Many of the founding members also belonged to PBS. We spent some time shooting arrows at the 3-D targets during the day, while late afternoons and evenings were spent doing NYB work.
June 2nd & 3rd, 1991 was our third Board meeting. It was at this meeting that Harry Rhulen was added as a charter member and made 2nd Vice President to represent us as our attorney. These meetings were laborious, starting Friday evening and going all day Saturday and all day Sunday. My wife, Brenda (who went on to serve many years as NYB's Administrative Secretary) and I hosted these meetings at our home. At night the guys would be in sleeping bags on our couches, floors, and basement. Ben and I would begin working on the days agenda beginning at about 5 AM while the others got a little more sleep. By 8 AM we would all be up and work until 10 or 11 at night! It was a true labor of love.
August 24th, 1991 we held our 4th BOD meeting (remember all the officers and directors are traveling from the far reaches of the state with no reimbursement) followed by our first general membership meeting at the Lafayette Inn on August 25th. We decided to have an annual rendezvous and planned it for April 25th and 26th 1992. There were 26 members at this first general meeting in 1991. We had issued our first newsletter prior to that meeting. The newsletter had no name and was photocopied at 6 pages including a map on how to get there. At this August meeting, Ralph Stuart volunteered to help out with the newsletter. When asked if he had any background, we found out he was the Senior Editor at Outdoor Life Magazine! We couldn't believe our luck in landing Ralph to take over our publication. The first issue was named Full Draw and was the pride of the organization. Unfortunately for us, Ralph eventually received a great job offer at another magazine which took him out of state and he could no longer do our magazine. Very fortunately for us, Ben and Diane Dodge along with Doug and Michelle Korn took over as our editors (during my presidency they saved my life!) and continued delivering to our members a first class magazine.
January 18th, 1992 was our next board meeting followed by our first Rendezvous, April 25th and 26th 1992 at Creekside Gun Shop in Holcomb, NY. We actually had two board meetings and a General Membership meeting this weekend. If youre getting the idea we were doing a lot of work, Youre right ?!
All during the first 4 years, the officers, board members and other member volunteers were busy trying to spread the word. We traveled all over the state trying to reach every club, county federation and bow shop to ask, Who is the best known bowhunter in your area? After obtaining a name we would call that person and say, You may not have heard of us, but can we come and talk with you about a new state bowhunting organization?? I met with the President and another officer of NYFAB to help them understand what we were trying to do, and also reassure them we had no interest in target archery and hoped for their support to work together on bowhunting issues in the state. As all of you began to join and chipped in with the work, the load became easier. Many of us were putting in 20 to 30 hours per week, nights and weekends for the first four years just to get NYB up and running. The grassroots efforts on the county level really had a strong impact. In 1993 we topped 3500 members and even reached 4000 at one point!
We continued to have an Annual Rendezvous with lots of 3-D shooting and Ben Dodge put together our first spring Banquet in April 1995. As all of you continued to volunteer and work I began to realize what real quality bowhunters and human beings made up NYB. I can't begin to mention all the names of the men and women who have given their blood, sweat and tears to grow NYB with members and programs. Those of us that founded the organization are greatly humbled and in awe of what you all are accomplishing. Take a look at the NYB Accomplishments? link elsewhere on this website. Print out that list and if someone asks you why they should join NYB, show them what you've accomplished.
I could go on and on, but I simply wanted to give you insight into the beginning as we approach our 20th anniversary. I hope you found it interesting. Please continue to support NYB with your membership, sign up a fellow bowhunter, teach a youngster, and continue to work hard for the organization you have helped build. Those of us that founded NYB never imagined the levels you would take your state bowhunting organization to. You've made us the best single interest sportsmens group in New York and one of the best state bowhunting organizations in the United States. Many of you are so accomplished in many areas and have so much to contribute. I, along with all the founding members are proud of NYB and so very proud of all of you.
Walt
Thats funny PC, had to google all that stuff I am sure. Did you actually read it all? Look to other states as they were far ahead of NY. I am sure you can google that as well. Crossbows have no place in our bow only seasons. Ask NYS bow hunters association and see what they say. Shawn
Let's be honest with ourselves. The reason 90% of the people that want to shoot the crossbow is because it will extend their effective range. Doubt me, look at the muzzle loader season with inlines and scopes. Some people hate that they have to let a deer walk. Bowhunting should be a close range sport and the crossbow blurs those line. I belong to a large archery club and I run a Hunter Shoot every year where if you hit outside the ten and eight ring you have to deduct points. The average compound shooter range I would guess would be a maximum of thirty-five yards. Sure we have some guys that are amazing shots and hardly ever miss. The crossbow is going to extend that effective range even further out to I would guess 55 yards and it will go up each year with new improvements. Then you have the Airbow which is not much different which will be making a push to be included in archery seasons. I love the argument that we shouldn't care what other people do in archery seasons. Ok, what if they bait, or shoot after dark or poach etc. Why should we care?
For myself, I've always hunted with a recurve or a longbow and I put those restrictions on myself. I've never shot a compound but I've seen kids at my archery club become effective at 30 yards within two weeks of picking up a compound and taking a few lessons. So let's be honest and just say you want to increase your effective range or not miss a chip shot because you flinched, at least for 90% of the people that want it without a handicap.
Not this hunter mint... It's a meat in the freezer thing for me, I like the idea of resting that cross bow on a steady railing and making a good shot at the same range I would a compound...and if it were legal a pile of akurn rage with that deers nose buried in it. scent
Effective range on foam and hay bales and effective range on live animals is two totally different things. I don't have an opinion either way on crossbows.......they don't have an impact on my hunting areas......but being an effective killer as opposed to an effective target shooter is a world of difference.........lots of people including very proficient target shooters crumble at the moment of truth.........just picking up a crossbow does not mean you will automatically be lethal on game.
xbow guys, 2 questions:
1) Would you be happy to have firearms allowed in archery season?
2) Would you be happy to allow firearms in archery season for disable hunters?
Just yes or no please, nothing personal, but I'm not really interested in your reasoning, it doesn't matter, I just want to know.
scentman, you just proved my point. If your effective range was the same as your compound you would have meat in the freezer regardless. Obviously your effective range is longer with the crossbow.
I read your point as a crossbow hunter would take longer shots at game... I then explained I would not take longer shots that I prefer a rested ready shot at a standing deer, that's all.
My effective range with my Excalibur Matrix 355 crossbow using a fieldpod and shooting at a stationary target is 60 yds. Tight groups and bulls eyes all day long. My effective range using the same crossbow in a hunting situation at live animals is 30 to 35 yds. Any experienced hunter knows shooting at live animals has limitations. Bow shot to answer your question no I would not. Hell I don't think compounds belong in archery season but as long as we have them{ and we always will} why not a crossbow. My effective range with my Mathews z7 extreme at deer is the same as crossbow. I just like my crossbow better.
Sitting in a blind and with a solid rest. I have seen many videos of guys shooting live animals at 80 yards and more with a crossbow. Just average every day guys. There are few, very few average everyday compound guys that can do that. Sorry argue til you are blue in the face, they are not a bow. Crossbows have been around for over 400 years and our bow hunting fore fathers did not lobby states to allow them in archery seasons and compounds had not even been invented yet. If they were actual bows then they would of fought to include them way back then. Silverback so wait use it during gun season. It is a shame money is driving the allowence of them into "our bow seasons". Hell they are even being advertised now as "your next rifle" look at Raven Crossguns new ads. Scooby
I do use it during gun season. I use my longbow during bow season
This can be solved easy, last two weeks of archery season you can use any bow. crossbow compound or traditional. Prior to this only longbows recurves self bows, no mechanical releases scopes or sights let offs or anything giving a mechanical advantage.
OH,OH Petcontain,, now your going to piss off the compound shooters. LOL.
I'd be in for 100% traditional all season., and if you have a real (real-real) disability, use anything. But I don't hunt for horns, and most of my shots are under 15 yards.
Any more xbow takers on my little quiz? Silence is an indicator!
100% traditional archery all season for me. After all in my eyes compounds are too easy,take little practice,have so many accessories to make it easier to get a deer. I know I'm dreaming but it really fries my ass when I hear so many compound shooters bitch that crossbows are too easy.That same argument could be made against them by traditional bow hunters. Look, I'm a traditional bow hunter but I would not push my way on anyone or try to prevent anyone from using the bow of their choice be it compound or crossbow. I have a Mathews z7 extreme and an Excalibur matrix 355. When I'm not shooting my longbow i'll use my Excalibur at times. just prefer it over the compound
If you can use your weapon of choice during the NYS hunting season that's all you need to worry about... don't worry what I use or the distance I prefer to shoot in the NYS hunting season. Scent out.
Silverback - the Excalibur matrix 355 is illegal in NY because its 240lb.
bowshot, it depends on what the meaning of happy is. :0) ))))-------)
Yup killed an awful lot of deer with my recurves. They really ought to keep the crossguns out no matter what, they already have given them to much. I believe for handicap folks they are fine but beyond that I am sorry they are for the folks who just want a much easier way to say they archery hunt. Shawn
"Crossbows are for the folks who just want a much easier way to say the archery hunt" That pretty much describes compounds as well and to say different is utter denial. Archery season was granted back pre compound when recurves and longbows were king. A special season was granted because it was difficult as it was supposed to be. Then came the compound that with all of the high tech accessories was developed to make shooting and hunting easier. My problem is why is that ok when crossbows are not. I don't care to hear the argument they are hand held and hand drawn. After being sighted in they are pretty damn easy to shoot. A newbie within an hour can be pretty damn efficient at 20 yards. It took me two years of dedicated longbow shooting to become good enough to shoot at a live animal. I'm not buying that crossbows are too easy and compounds are not. Want to band the crossbows,fine then ban the compounds too
scentman, by "happy" im mean have absolutely no problem with it.
Sorry I'm late for class again, lol!!
My wife got her hunter safety 15 years ago. She goes to 3D shoots with me but only manages to pull 32 lbs. She would like to try deer hunting with me but the draw weight is a big problem, hence if crossbows were legal during archery season she may hunt. Her confidence could be built fast to take only safe ethical shots.
"This can be solved easy, last two weeks of archery season you can use any bow. crossbow compound or traditional. Prior to this only longbows recurves self bows, no mechanical releases scopes or sights let offs or anything giving a mechanical advantage. " This just might happen if the crossbow increases the archery kill to a point where they want to shorten the archery season. Look how the crossbow has affected the PA archery season.
Mint how has it affected the PA archery season and OH for that matter? How has nuisance permits affected the NY season? The NY deer managers I believe are controlled by the insurance companies not the well being of the herd.
Ohio has a one week firearm season while NY has a 23 day season for this year. In PA they are talking about what they are going to do if the archery kill keeps expanding. If you remember the DEC didn't shorten the regular season in NY to create a NY youth firearm season they took it from archery season. Give it five years and the rifle hunters will be complaining that the archery hunters are killing all their deer before the rifle season.
I believe you may still bow hunt during the youth season as they didnot close it for the 3 days.
Have been reading the articles here on cross bows plus and minis. Just wonder how many have really shoot a cross bow ?
Please look at the legal definition of a Bow or even look in a dictionary. The key part of the definition is "hand drawn" and the string is hand held or with a release attached to ones hand. Sorry but what most fail to realize is that they(crossbows) are not attracting a bunch of new hunters, studies show they are attracting gun hunters who want to squeeze into "our" archery seasons. Its a joke and now some states are seeing that allowing them into regular archery seasons is a mistake!! Shawn
Shawn you are again speaking general in nature. Could you please provide the data which backs up your statement "some states that are allowing them are now finding out it is a mistake". I see no difference between a gun hunter who picks up a crossbow as to one who picks up a compound, it is just another hunter who wants to take advantage of our seasons. If too many deer start to be killed the state can adjust the season and limits. I went to town the other night a 2.5 mile trip and came back on another road a mile away and counted 15 deer feeding, mind you they have not dropped their fawns yet. So what will my deer population be in 2.5 square miles?
If the gun hunters want to jump into the archery season they need not wait for the legalization of a crossbow. A compound is easy enough to shoot and a newbie could be proficient enough in a very short time. The time and effort and skill needed to shoot a compound is much closer to a crossbow than it is to a longbow or recurve. Hand held and hand drawn or not compounds are not that hard to shoot so stop bashing the crossbows.
Personally speaking I have a compound a recurve a longbow muzzleloader a rifle a shotgun and a rifled barrel shotgun. If I get a crossbow they would have to add more seasons to use them all. My favorite is the recurve.
Just look it up on line guys it is not that hard to do. Kansas is just one of the states. It is totally inaccurate to say that picking up a compound and learning to get proficient with it is like shooting a crossgun and being accurate with it. Most if not all people who have gun hunted can buy a crossbow take it home and put the scope on it and be hitting a paper plate at 50 yards within 15 minutes, few if any could be doing that with a compound!! I recently wanted to get my wife into shooting with me a bit. Do to a shoulder that has had 9 reconstructive surgeries she cannot shoot a "real bow". I bought her a fairly cheap crossgun, within 15 minutes of her first shooting it, she was shooting 3" groups at 40 yards off our porch handrail as a rest. I have trouble doing that with my compound and I have been shooting a bow for over 45 years. Sorry but comparing the ease of shooting a crossgun to that of a compound is like comparing apples to oranges!! Shawn
Ok Shawn your point is for a person who can not pull a lot of poundage is they are easy to learn. accurate with little trouble and you can shoot out to yardage more than the compound. So you have another hunter with a certain amount of tags who can only take so many deer because of the limit on tags. Welcome to the fold, how does this decimate the deer herd? With decreasing hunter numbers the State is looking for ways to reduce the herd. What is the problem?
So Shawn,What is your beef on accuracy and obtaining it easily? Following your line of thinking I'm against you shooting a compound and think you should go straight to a traditional bow and work hard at being accurate.
So Shawn,What is your beef on accuracy and obtaining it easily? Following your line of thinking I'm against you shooting a compound and think you should go straight to a traditional bow and work hard at being accurate.
I shoot a recurve a real lot, I have killed well over 50 deer with my sticks . You just proved my point with your statement!! Way too easy to be accurate with and with no commitment to learn, that is exactly my point. It takes no skill to shoot a crossbow, that is why 5 year old kids are shooting deer in some states as well as their lazy gun hunting Dads!! That is why crossguns attract the gun guys, guys who are too lazy to learn to shoot a vertical bow. They have no place in regular archery season and the only reason they are gaining any ground is greed and money. Its a shame. Shawn
My local shop has sold about 200 crossbows the last 3 years. Probably 190 of them have been to those with a bow license - aka = current bowhunters. We have now have 10 new gun hunters all but crowding out of all our spots in 2 counties with their crossbows. ;^)
Well I see your minds are made up as is mine. No amount of reasoning will change your mind. I'll just go back to my measly 11 acres and hunt with my longbow,recurve,compound and crossbow and I will enjoy myself doing it. I don't care what anyone thinks including the state of ny.
Steve that is a shame as the local bow shop where I am from tells me it is just the opposite. Guys who have never even shot a bow make up about 90% of their cross bow sales. The guys don't even really know anything about cross bows either so the shop guys tell me, but in 10 minutes they are hitting a tennis ball at 40 yards. Shawn
My post was meant to show an example of how there has been zero real impact of the crossbow in my area.
Think I'll give it another shot: One more time, I've only gotten one taker so far... xbow guys, 2 questions (yes or no please.): 1) Would you be happy to have firearms allowed in archery season?
2) Would you be happy to allow firearms in archery season for disable hunters?
Bow shot I think you've taken the question to the point of a straw man argument. I don't think there can be a meaningful answer to the questions you pose. I'd say "no" to both questions but they're "false" questions because I don't think anyone suggesting gun season should be merged With archery seasons, nor is anyone suggesting disabled hunters gun hunt during archery. If they did want disabled opportunities during a portion of bow I'd say have at it.
I think the proposition that X-bows are more consistent with gun hunting seasons is ridiculous. Yes....X-bows are fast....over 300'/second. Well so are the new vertical compounds aren't they? Okay X-bow can be pre-cocked...yes. Compound bows 65% let-off? Gimme a break....65% let off? Compound bow pretty quick second shot capability but X-Bow not quick second chance at all and is louder than compound. X-Bow are quite heavy on average...not so maneuverable around the confines of a tree stand ...advantage compound. Despite the inherent accuracy possible with an X-Bow, don't kid yourself....most shooting is still going to be within what we could call "bowhunting close" distances. I would surmise that given a fair odds shooting opportunity with a practiced, competent user, an X-Bow may be counted on the make maybe more consistently good hits.
I would say that the biggest, real "watershed event" was when they let all the compound shooters in with us recurve and longbow guys. I'd say that that had a hell of a bigger impact on harvest rates than X-Bows will ever have on current bow harvest which is obviously dominated by compounds.
Whatever you use, I wish you the best season ever this fall and don't care what tool you choose to kill your deer with.
ah, excuse me, , guns are allowed in bow season, it's called small game hunting - turkey, grouse, rabbits, squirrel - heck, some guys even have the nerve to use dogs - while they may not be after venison they do have an impact on those of us that hunt deer, the deer seem to know they are around, sad I know, they should not be allowed in the woods at all... (sarcasm intended)
i tossed my stick in the pond... i'm done beating this horse.
Jdawg,well said thank you.
jdawg your argument makes no sense. There was not this big argument whether compounds were "real bows" they are hand drawn and hand held as well as held vertical. The crossguns are not and you just said in your statement they are easier to shoot by claiming in the same situations a crossgun would be more accurate. Shawn
Well as a Bow Hunter Ed I now have heard all the BS as to why we can and cannot have a crossbow. I am not required to teach any thing about crossbows and that suits me, but still are asked many questions. It would be nice to just have an end to the issue so we all could go forward.
Shawn what caliber or gauge is a crossgun? Why is the current setback for a crossgun from an occupied building 250 feet and not the 500 required for a gun? Why can you use the crossgun during the last two weeks of archery season and in the extended archery season but you can not use your rifle or shotgun? Do you sight in a crossgun on the archery range or the rifle range? What is wrong with having the most accurate weapon available for a given season, isn't this why compounds took over from recurves, self bows and longbows? If somebody wanted to chuck a spear what season is available?
I have no dog in this fight but I do not believe in the purist stance of not in my season. I do not own a crossbow most likely will not but my wife or my grandsons may want to hunt with one. I believe they should be able to go out in archery season with me.
Sorry you prove my argument everytime you post. they have no place in archery seasons period. Look in any of NYS regulations eve from just several years back as bow is a had drawn hand held weapon. Not something you cock and has a stock and you shoulder just like what? OH, a gun!!! I just find it a shame states just want the money and throw out the window what was fought for so hard many years ago. Shawn
Just check out Ravin Crossbows. Their Ad says it all: Meet Your Next Rifle
Shawn I have proven nothing, my opinion and yours does not count. A bunch of spoiled bowhunters running around saying not in my season, we fought to hard to have this to ourselves means nothing compared to PSE Matthew's Barnett Mission Hoyt X-Caliber Bear etc who have built successfully sold product in the majority of the country for hunting purposes and have a good track record. Also we have a state under pressure from farmers, insurance companies to cut the herd. Bow hunters alone can not do it. Party Permits have not done it, so turn to full inclusion of crossbows just one more attempt to reduce deer numbers.
The fact that this thread has been going since January tells me that a lot of these guys need something else to do with their time. Put down the key board , pick up WHATEVER it is you shoot that makes YOU happy and practice.
Well gentlemen per NY Outdoor News the crossbow and antler restriction have stalled (disclaimer, I read this at 4 am prior to my first cup of Joe)... So at least for now we are at last year's regs. So now to open Pandora's Box, with no particular priority of sequence .. 1. I'm a bow hunter I prefer no crossbows during archery(exception of senior citizens or disabled -----> you can get a "Doctor's note" from a Physician for usage of a draw lock thus converting your bow to essentially a crossbow (you know the discussion draw, verses locked and loaded argument) 2.Pro antler restrictions (exception youth and senior citizens) 3. More implemented input from us the NY residents, NY property tax payers, hunters, trappers and fisherman to do what's best for our resources 4.I'd like to see shorter deer season with one buck limit. 5. Very stiff penalties for selfish humans that take natural resources wrongfully (Per other states who levy HEAVY FINE$ for those found guilty). 6. Only NYS residence, or NYS property tax payers should receive DMU permits. 7. Tax reduction/breaks for land owners that allow non- contractual(lessees) property usage for sportsman These are just my opinion guys so don't get all worked up, my opinion and a buck will get me a cup of coffee at Mickey D's.. Stay safe and best of luck this year Arrwknker82
Sorry to be late to class, I'm running 4 PCs and a MAC, had to kill all my cookies, so blew away my passwords. Bummer. Any way, Jdawg, thanks for being the honest fellow, :
" I don't think there can be a meaningful answer to the questions you pose. I'd say "no" to both questions but they're "false" questions because I don't think anyone suggesting gun season should be merged With archery seasons..."
Not quite a straw man, in that I was not proposing something nuts, seriously. Two things: 1) Very few hunters really don't care what the other guy in the woods carries for a weapon. Those that really don't just like their weapon, and that's that, nothing more. I WISH I was like that!!
2) For the rest of us, the rub about the "other guys" is competition and advantage. Either by numbers of hunters, or more efficient weapons. We want quieter woods and more deer.
3) Those of us that fall into camp 2 are not anymore selfish than the stick guys that didn't want Cbows, or the gun guys that wanted no bows, the mountain hunters that don't want to see another soul, the guy that doesn't want a next door neighbor...or on the other end, the guy that wants full autos, wants a roaring deer camp, ATV access, on and on and on.
4) Elderly, handicapped? Let 'em use anything. But as for me.... when I finally qualify for either of those classes: Nope. No one owes me anything so that I can get into their game.
That's all. Nothing deep
Have you seen the New Ravin commercial? Experience rifle accuracy.
yeah I saw it, does not suprise most of us except those in denial....Tom
Not this year (again). Maybe next year?
Answer this question. I have 850 acres I hunt, all private and posted. What do you care what weapon I use, if you were there to bother, you are trespassing and breaking the law.
Petcontain, its the American way NOSE IN EVERY THING
archer756 I get it, you are not doing it my way so it is wrong, instead of what is best for the sport.
Petcontain, read what is stated, you do what you want. but there are always some one else that has to get their nose into other people's business.
Stupid question, next you will be saying you should be able to hunt deer all year long since you aren't "bothering anybody"
Mint I do hunt deer all year long, I just limit my time of harvest.
Time to buy a compound I guess. Where to begin?
Jdawg Great response! Crossbow use during the entire bow season will happen someday. Might take a few years but it will happen.
"Time to buy a compound I guess. Where to begin? " I would go to an archery shop. I was down at my archery club on Sunday and I guy was nailing the bulls eye on the practice range. His friend told me this was the first time he ever shot any kind of bow. Within a dozen arrows he was nailing within a four inch group every shot.
'Sorry, late for class..
"Answer this question. I have 850 acres I hunt, all private and posted. What do you care what weapon I use, if you were there to bother, you are trespassing and breaking the law"
Nope don't care, and I'm happy for you. Its the ever-enlarging crowd I now have to compete with (or watch roam) on public land for venison. Oh well, that's just the way it is.
You are aware that your just demonstrated my point, right? You have 850 acres for you and yours only. Good, good... fine, fine. But you have it for the same reason most bare or cbow users are not overjoyed about xbows: you want it for yourself (and family/friends) and prefer to limit competition. Its not selfish, its just natural. You bought it, or lease it, you deserve it. And you are not less of a person to exclude whom you will from accessing it. But if someone insists on intruding into it, they are indeed less of a person.
That said, hey if xbows go all in. Fine. 'Happy for you.
bowshot I worked to develop my hunting area so I would be one of very few people on the land, reason for this is not to limit competition but to limit unknown hunters from a safety aspect. Not so much during bow season but gun season, I don't like slugs breaking branches over my head.
I lease, I join a hunting club (limited members) and I have asked permission. These all limit the number of people I see and helps to assure safety. In CNY I know an area 3000 acres 50 people max archery only. Cost $10/year.
As far as Xbows go I do not own one nor do I plan on buying one, I just see no reason they can not be included in the regular archery season. It does not matter what you use self bow xbow recurve compound just like I don't care if you use a muzzleloader 308 30-06 12ga whatever.
Petcontain, understood, no problem. I might contact you about the 3000 acres CNY thing, I'm still looking for a lease, lol!!
bow shoot leases are out there. My hunting club just gave up a 195 acre lease on Morgan Hill to take a 272 acre lease in Georgetown. Morgan Hill lease was snapped right up by someone. Check with Gutchess or Farm East LLC, part of Gutchess.
Hmmm. Ok I'll give 'em another shot, but I've contacted them a few times and came up dry. No harm trying it again! I think They pointed me to a/their site last time. I'll google.
Hey Mint -- I took your advice and did it. Ended up with a Mathews HTX 28" 60lbs, but cranked down to 50lbs. At 60lbs I could feel the pinch in my shoulder (grade 3 shoulder separation in 2009, which is still fully separated). I used the accubow since February to build up strength. I shot several bows with several sights/rests, but the HTX felt the smoothest to me and that was the last one I shot and was tired/weaker at that point. I bought it last Saturday and pick it up customized this Friday. How do I change my username handle? lol
Bow shot just try I know the owner of the hunting club has been leasing with them over 20 years. So if he tells them he wants to change they lets say give him consideration. This is called a relationship. Last year they offered a Chenango county lease and this year a Georgetown lease. We have close to 400 acres leased with them.
Also try Coastal Timberlands Company they have leases in Otsego and Oneida Counties. Good luck
Understood Petcontian, thanks for the intel. 'And you meant $1000 per year on your other post, not $10, correct?
If you are talking about the 3000 acres for $10 a year I meant $10 a year
I find it interesting that Crossbows are not allow to be used in 4J
