2017 Proposed Bear Permits
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
I just found out the DNR has proposed a higher quota in all zones for bear. Zone C will have more than 7,000 permits available. The hunter success has declined and kill has risen ever so slightly as the bear population continues to rise. By the DNR's own admission they feel this is possibly due to hunter saturation, so what have they done the past couple of years is give out more permits and 700+ more this year. Insanity at it's highest level in my eyes. Maybe Zone C should be split with less tags and then the kill will go up.
Reason does not belong within the DNR.
Rut you should look deeper into the picture, this is not the old DNR, they follow marching orders now............. good or bad, they have less say than you think
Naz 's Link
Not sure that's hunter saturation has anything to do with it. It sounds more like they're trying to keep the bear population from getting established too far south, where nuisance complaints will soar. Zone C hunters with ideal spots can do very well. Wonder how many take an easy-to-get Zone C tag in hopes of "finding" a spot and then don't fare so well? You can read about the hoped-for quota and proposed tag numbers — and reasons behind the numbers — at this link.
I know from talking with some people at shows that they have had it with hunting Zone C. Not worth their time with people honing in on their bait sites. Sure if you have a huge track of land I'm sure you'll have less conflicts, but on 40's or 80's with baits on them a bear can go were ever he wants to eat, then it just comes down to out baiting your competition and many don't know how to bait, won't spend money on quality bait or even know what good bait is. I heard the same thing a year ago that Zone D had increased it's quota mainly because of bear conflicts and this year it's the severity of bear bear related conflicts. I call it idiots that have no idea about what bears do. Transplants/tourist with cabins here call because of bear problems, a bear got in their bird feeder, garbage cans are tipped over, there was a bear in my yard. My God they're bears, most conflicts or nuisance complaints are easy fixes. I'm not saying we don't have an over abundance of bears, but if people were just a little bit bear savvy we wouldn't have all these bear complaints.
I've been putting in for bear preference points the past four years. I started when I was 30 with the hope that I could take a bear when I'm 40. I'd like to hunt Zone B but I've been told it's going to be a long wait which is again why I started putting in four years ago. I know its hard to predict without knowing what the future will hold for bear hunting but will 10 be enough? I don't know the ins and outs but could my dad grab preference points with the goal of transferring them to me? Is there any magical number that it is essentially a done deal, guarantying a tag?
Thanks for the info.
skookumjt's Link
Mike, you can check the current point requirements on the attached page. The minimum has stayed roughly the same for B for a while if I remember correctly. A has been trending upward.
You cannot transfer points other than to a youth.
Hoot's Link
I've talked with some that didn't draw with ten points last year. Try Zone D, plenty of bears and not the long wait.
We had some hunters draw with 5 points in Zone D.
I have a spot already picked out in B so I want to stay there.
If you want to hunt sooner go to Minnesota. 3 points will get you in most areas. If you want a challenge go in the BWCA zone, it is easy to draw. No baiting in the normal sense, you can bait but only while the hunter is at the bait, need to take it out with you. Our little group has grown to 3 of us for the 2017 hunt and we should draw this year. We do not pre bait, usually go to totally new country each year. Will probably go up about 4 days before the season opens to start baiting.
As far as Wisconsin goes. I hope they don't make the mistake that MN did when they went totally nuts with more and more tags, even giving the option to buy a second tag if the hunter wanted it. They totally destroyed the age structure in some areas.
I run plenty of baits in zone C and the biggest problem is the number of hunters who try to bait on their own and fail. If their baits aren't hit they are not purchasing the kill tags. When over 20% of the tags go unpurchased, there is a problem.
Unpurchased kill tags by zone
Zone A 102 Zone B 37 Zone C 1266 Zone D 129 Total 1524
I think one of the answers is obvious. If 1/5th of the tags drawn aren't purchased in a zone, the quota has slim to no chance of being met. By raising the number of tags, they are hoping for the purchase of more tags, thus hoping to raise the harvest rate closer to the harvest quota.
The state should set a deadline for license purchase about a month after the draw results are posted. Then have a second draw for the leftover tags. Naturally those that don't buy their tag loose all accumulated points. They might need to ask when you apply if you want to be considered for the leftover tag draw. (because you might make conflicting plans by the time that second draw happens.)
I agree with Jeffs comment. If you had a May 1st deadline to purchase the tag, a left over tag draw would benefit the State and real hunters who put in for the tag with intentions to hunt. I'm sure those non purchased tags are from save a bear tree huggers who get a kick out of cheating a hunter of a tag and they actually think there saving a teddy bear. Granted-they could pay for tag-at least then the State is getting something and it becomes more expensive for them to run the scam. Also, zone C has more issues that just to many tags, they have a tremendous crop of feed, less public land and the private land is a little more tough for bear hunting than up North. My son who helps me guide in Zone A and D is a Forester and worked a lot on Private Land and Public in zone C before getting a job in Hayward. He also had a few hunters down in C - he said it was tough because of the above three issues.
Zone C is to large a land area and to diverse in habitat and bear and hunter distribution to be managed with a generic approach of high tag numbers, to maintain the bears at desirable levels everywhere in the Zone. Throwing a splash of tags across 2/3's of the state to control bear numbers is not sound game management practice. divide Zone C in 4 or 5 north to south boundary lines or better yet issue tag numbers by county.
then your getting higher number hunters where there are higher number of bears, and of course lower number of hunters where there are lower number of bears. Yes overall there will be fewer tags but the hunt quality and resulting success rates would climb and the kill quotas will be achieved sooner and consistently.
and while I am the Bear Czar I will raise the desirability and status of the bear by increasing application fee to $15 and the license fee to $100. Thus upgrading the bear hunt from the casual opportunist vermin population reduction overcrowded hunt to an upgraded limited trophy hunt for the serious hunters.
and no bear dog training or running in Zone C! no baiting or dog training till July 1, leave them alone in May and June there breeding for god sakes, have some respect. no dog training after August 15th let things settle down. For the dogs best interest, lessen wolf interaction and land owner trespass issues. The Bear Czar has spoken so shall it be!!!!!
ok what would you do as the BEAR CZAR?
"and no bear dog training or running in Zone C! no baiting or dog training till July 1,"
You do know there already no hound training till July 1st ??
"leave them alone in May and June there breeding for god sakes, have some respect."
Again I go back to the only thing going on at this time is baiting. There are no dogs in the woods at that time.
"no dog training after August 15th let things settle down. For the dogs best interest, lessen wolf interaction and land owner trespass issues. "
Perhaps we should shorten the bow season and close it October 20th. The rut will be coming and their breeding then. Give them some respect for god sakes!
One should know the laws and have an understanding of a sport before commenting on it. Bear hunting in WI. Is the one DNR's bright spot and needs no changes made to its format.
sharpspur@home's Link
According to the regulations map you can train dogs on bears south of the designated line during the may 1 to june 30th. So DT maybe you should take your own advice lol
Scott, bear hound training has its own separate set of rules from sporting/bird dogs. It's not zone specific.
All dogs must be kept on a leash from April 15-July 31 on all DNR public hunting lands with the exception of Class I dog training grounds and certain Class II dog training grounds where approved on the dog training permit. Except where prohibited in state parks, campgrounds, natural areas and other posted areas, from July 1 to the following April 14, hound dogs may be trained on free-roaming raccoons and rabbits on DNR lands without a leash. Northern Restricted Zone: Dog training on any captive or free-roaming wild animal in the northern restricted zone is prohibited May 1 to June 30 on all lands except as follows for raccoons and rabbits only (all the following must apply): the licensee applies for and receives a hound dog training or trialing license; the licensee complies with any restrictions placed on a license to prevent the intentional or unintentional pursuit of wild bear; the licensee may list up to three townships in the same or adjoining counties for training purposes; the DNR approves the property locations listed; and no more than two dogs in a single pack may be used to pursue raccoon or rabbit for training purposes regardless of the number of persons assisting or accompanying the hound dog training license holder and regardless of the dog ownership. Bear dog training period: An individual may ONLY use dogs to pursue free-roaming wild bear from July 1 to August 31 and provided: each dog is uniquely tattooed or wears a collar with the owner's name and address attached; and no more than six dogs in a single pack may be used to pursue bear regardless of the number of persons assisting the licensee and regardless of the dog ownership. Note: Bears may not be pursued where prohibited in state parks, state campgrounds, state natural areas or other posed or restricted areas. No person engaged in training dogs may kill or cause to be killed any free-roaming wild animal including unprotected wild animals without department approval.
If and when they decide to split Zone C will be to give the dog hunters more area to train and hunt. There are many factors involved with that issue and the #1 factor is the amount of continuous large pieces of public property that will be big enough to handle training and hunting with dogs. I don't see any way they can spit zone C and allow hunting with dogs, unless it is an east/west split along the HWY 39 corridor.
As far as training, we have issues every once in a while on private land, the dogs are on the camera, nut never any people. They are smart enough to just let them run from the road or lead them in a way before letting them go.
As far as baiting, I would like to see some sort of tracking done by the DNR, like they do in Minnesota. It would be nice to have some sort of way to track hunter density across the counties. Right now there is no way of knowing how many baits or hunters there are anywhere in the state and it should be public knowledge. I don't mean putting anyone's name on the list, just a simple map with dots would be more than enough information to get hunter density and see if there are any real hunters with competing baits in a county.
"As far as baiting, I would like to see some sort of tracking done by the DNR, like they do in Minnesota" Then I think the only way to keep track or count is to have smaller zones, limits on how many baits each hunter can have, restrictions on how many hunters a bear guide service can guide. Limits on how many hunters a bear guide service can guide has been talked about within the ranks.
Mike F's Link
In Minnesota a guide can run 3 baits for every hunter they have in camp, plus 3 for themselves. That means they can run 33 baits for 10 hunters. I don't know many guides that runs more than 3 per hunter in Wisconsin. As far as the number of hunters a guide service can have should depend on the guide service and their staff.
Bait Station Limit. No more than three bait stations may be placed at one time for each licensed bear hunter. If a hunter wishes to establish a different bait station, one of the hunter’s three existing bait stations must be removed. Each licensed bear hunting outfitter may establish up to three bait stations in addition to bait stations placed for licensed hunters.
I like that they have to purchase the tags before August 1 and the unsold tags go on sale August 5th.
Their legal bait is quite different also.
Just set a kill or "harvest" number for zone C,and unlimited tags, some areas have problem or nuisance bears and the occasional stray in areas that aren't the best for bear hunting anyway. When or if quota is met then close the season.Allow no baiting until 30 days before the season starts. Also there are a some very large areas within zone C that allow no hunting and or baiting for bear.
I really like Jeff's idea about unclaimed tags.
One question - I've never understood this, why is legal to train hounds in Zone C, but not hunt for bears with hounds?
To be honest, for the hound hunters to run in C it would possibly do harm to the sport. Most of the population in Wisconsin as far as people go is in zone C. There is less public land and the public land that there is- is smaller in size than what is in the North. It would cause a lot of public negative awareness to the sport-all it would take is a few runs that started on small public tracks that go onto to private sections to start a negative impression of hound hunters in a much bigger way than it does up North- that's my two cents. Most hound hunters are very responsible and love the sport, it would only take a few bad incidents in Central and southern Wisconsin to ruin it. I'm thinking that may be the reason.
Either a second draw for unsold tags or sell them over the counter. 1 per person/per year and you wouldn't have to use your preference points and you couldn't transfer this tag.
As far as dogs in zone C - a few train dogs by me and they know they are not welcome on private land, but they do it anyway and there is no way of finding out who owns the dogs we have pictures of unless you catch one. With the number of small game and deer hunters on public land I think there would be a lot of conflicts. And like Haywardguide stated, the number of continuous public acres where there are bears isn't that big.
Thanks Hayguide Although I would assume that must happen during training season too, but probably not to the extent of kill season.