Apple tree planting
Wisconsin
LOLOLOL, no idea where that picture came from!
LOLOLOL, no idea where that picture came from!
I have gotten a few requests on tree planting as my thread got eliminated when I got booted. Here's the pictures of a completed planting. First of all when planting, don't dig the hole so deep as you don't want to bury the graft/ tree union. After planting, I take a piece of window screen and wrap it around the trunk making about a 3" cylinder, this is to keep bunnies and vermin away. I use cable ties or electrical tape to hold in place. Next I place a piece of weed barrier down and cover with 1/2" - 1" stone. Follow that up with concrete reinforcement wire, I usually make it about 5 1/2 feet across.
Here's the one that I wanted.
When my trees get a little larger in size, 4" or so I put T posts next to them to discourage rubbing.
What truck diameter is it safe to pull the cages so bucks dont kill them?
Tweed, some years I do and some years I don't, it all depends on work commitments but I always try to get my dormant oil spray on. In my opinion that is the most important spray of the year. Last year I was fortunate with my timings of spray and I was able to get 7 sprayings in.. Not necessary for deer but I wanted to harvest a dozen bushel or so as the may 15 frost hit my home orchard hard.
November, In some areas where it is all small bucks you probably get by with pulling them at 2" but in your area where the average buck is 150" you probably need to wait until they are 6" trees. After you pull cages on 2" trees I would take 3 T posts and set them next to the tree and zip tie in place to keep deer from rubbing them. I had 1 client that removed cages on 17 trees when they were 1 1/2" and he gave them no protection, that November bucks rubbed everyone of them which ended up killing 2/3. Definitely need to keep the window screen on until 4"also .
Thanks Trapper! Can you zoom in on exactly what a T-post is? Why not just leave the cages?
Do you add lime or fertilizer in year 1 around the tree?
Should the stones go right against the trunk or slightly off it?
How far apart do you plant the trees typically?
I'm planting some for the 1st time this spring. I've acquired lots of info and saved it but always seem to get more questions. I appreciate your assistance.
Does anybody ever go with the $100 5'-7' trees that are supposed to fruit in the first year?
I'd be surprised if those would really bare their first year. I'd think they would be under too much shock.
Waiting sucks but once they're established you forget about the time it took to get there.
Unless a 5" tree is dug and planted with a good size tree spade I wouldn't even think of buying one that big.
I got a good deal on two potted trees (usually don't buy potted but it was a super price) late last spring, both set a few apples. I pulled all but one off when they were marble size to reduce stress, leaving me one for a taste test later.
Go Lucky, a T post is a normal steel fence post. As long as the stones are big, enabling the trees to breathe they can go right tight to the trunk. 12 feet would be a proper spacing. As far as lime and fertilizer, most of my trees are planted in the center or along the edges of my food plots so they reap the benefits of that.
Go Lucky, a T post is a normal steel fence post. As long as the stones are big enabling the trees to breath they can go right tight to the trunk. 12 feet would be a proper spacing. As far as lime and fertilizer, most of my trees are planted in the center or along the edges of my food plots so they reap the benefits of that.
Reggie, 15 years ago I was given 7 trees that were 5"-6" caliper, I used our companies 60 inch tree spade for moving them. Most had 2-3 bushels of apples on them just prior to me moving them. I also planted 15 trees that were 5/8" diameter that fall. After 6 years the small trees were out producing the big ones. Actually 4 of the big ones died within the first 4 years.
Good point Jeff, I don't allow my trees to fruit the first 3 full years after planting.
I throw about 3 lbs of rusty nails in each Apple tree hole . Great results . Also , if you transplant , tie yarn to a North facing trig & replant the same way . Much higher success rate .
Thanks for the feedback guys. The only private in can plant on is super overgrown, and the canopy allows little light through. Just gotta convince the non hunting in laws to let me cut down half of their forest! Then I can plant some trees.
Might seem like a strange question but are they best planted in Spring or Fall?
Another question has anyone successfully planted producing oak trees?
I plant mine in May but have planted as late as mid June.
Spring is better because it give the new root system more time to get establish and take in nutrients for the dormant period (winter).
I've never planted oaks but the parks in my area have plenty of new sapplings. They take forever and a day to grow but you're kids or grandkids will benefit. The parks dept fences them about a foot from the trunk and 4 or 5 feet up.
One thing not mentioned yet is root starter. I dig the hole about 6" deeper than needed and replace what is probably not topsoil that deep with good topsoil mixed with some root starter and milorganite and a LITTLE BIT (small closed handful) of 19-19-19 mixed in. You don't want the 19-19-19 to be in direct contact with any roots but the others can be. So as you start to backfill where the roots are don't mix straight fertilizer in. Just add a little straight fertilizer on top of the soil. You can mix some milorganite and root starter in with the backfill material. Use the non-topsoil you dug out (and more soil added to that) to make a little dam around the tree to catch and hold rain, especially important if there is any slope to the soil, then leave the uphill side of the dam open. After about 4 years you can take that dam out.
Another thing DO NOT dig the hole in a funnel shape. The sides of the hole need to be vertical and the bottom flat. Otherwise freeze/thaw will tend to push the backfill material up and tend to tear or at least damage roots that transition through the V. Straight sides won't push up as much. Trees moved with big spades have enough root mass to tolerate some soil movement at that transition area.
One thing I have added in the past is water retaining granules. Not sure what they are called but they hold water and expand when the soil is wet then release it when the soil is dry. I really don't have a clue if it helped any but the theory sure sounds good.
Trapper, tough luck on loosing some of those big trees. But with free trees and free access to the equipment at least you were only out some time and fuel.
Maya, I plant 90% of my trees in the fall as I usually plant potted ones. If you hit the right nurseries you can buy them for 60-70% off full price. If I'm doing a mass planting with dozens of trees, I'm more likely to do bare root trees in the spring.
Places like Home Depot, Sams Club, grocery stores etc that just have trees during spring and into summer do seriously mark stuff down mid summer and those are the only time I will buy a potted tree. If you loose a few no big deal. You now have a hole with loose dirt for planting your next tree. These are the times when they come with roots growing circles around the pot so cut those before planting. Utility knife going up and down every few inches around the pot should get most of them.
Trapper, do you plant those bargain potted trees right away or plant the tree pot and all until late fall or spring to replant them properly? I did that with 5 Mugo pine 3 years ago partly because I wasn't sure where I was going to put them. This spring I moved two of them, they were seriously root bound with tap roots going through the holes in the bucket. I need to get the other 3 moved somewhere this spring.
Jeff, Back before we could bowhunt up to the day of gun hunting I would plant the trees during that down week and do them properly. One year I bought 20 trees in fall, at sale time, I then took 10 bales of straw and laid down 1/2 bale at each planting location as a frost blanket and then I went up in the middle of December and planted them then. Now, if I come across a deal I just set them on the north side of my garage at home and mulch them heavily and then plant them as early as I can in spring. Actually after planting 100s of trees I think my planting days are mostly done. Now I'm more into grafting a number of varieties onto one tree.
Trapper, we have much in common. One time the nursery in Durand had to get some good size ash, maple, and other ornamentals off of some property he leased so his prices were awesome on 3 inch trees. Ground was not froze there so he dug them with a spade on his skid steer and we loaded up my trailer and wrapped up the roots with tarps. I got to Hayward with them and there was some frozen soil and I really did not have time to plant them just then anyway. So I dug a trench with the skid steer laid the roots in the trench, sprinkled soil over the roots, threw straw over that and canvas over that. They were fine till I got them planted in spring. One thing tho, don't plant a tree and then back over it with the skid steer. I straightened it back up and hoped for the best. The tree is actually still alive but the side I hit and scraped the bark off of looks horrible.
Comment on my planting post above, you do not need to use 19 19 19 fertilizer, 10 10 10 will work just as good, just use a little more.
Thanks guys. Much to learn.
Have any of you guys try grafting. It looks interesting, I have 15 or so tree for scions. Where do you buy rootstock to graft to?
I've been doing some research on grafting as well. Think I'm going to experiment grafting a few scions from my yard trees onto a couple fence line wild apples just to try it. I'd really like to graft some cherry onto a couple plum trees I have that never seem to fruit but I read mixed stories on if that's possible. Endless youtube training videos about grafting so that gives me enough confidence to at least try on wild apples. I've seen root stock for sale from maple valley orchard in swamico. They also sell scions.. I was considering planting strait rootstock instead of the common wild Apple seedlings I plant in some of my wildlife plantings. Anyone ever done this? Will a semi dwarf rootstock produce a random Apple someday or would a known cultivar need to be grafted on for any production? Just thought this would be a compromise(4 bucks each) somewhere between buying cheap wild Apple seedlings (2 bucks each) vs grafted known varieties (20 bucks each). Plus I'd have option to graft them once I maybe know what I'm doing in a few seasons
If anybody needs scions let me know soon. I will be cutting mine in the next 2 weeks. I graft 20 or more every year. Think outside of the box, I even graft crab apples to regular apple trees instead of viseversa.
If you graft 2 different kinds of scions onto the same tree will it then be self pollinating?
Trapper- do you graft onto your existing trees or buy rootstock to graft onto? I have a good idea how to do it and can get lots of scions from our trees.
Yes it would Tweed, but I bet you a case of beer, if you only plant 1 you also would have fruit.
RJN, I only graft to existing trees. I have a lot of trees that have 5 or more varieties to them. A good graft to an existing tree will produce close to a 1/2 bushel in 3 years. Its amazing how fast they will grow, a 1/4 inch scion will be wrist thickness in a short time.
Had a few PM s about the rusty iron . I learned this from a apple tree farmer in the state of Washington while on a Blacktail hunt . It wroks for me .
I've heard that before Ruger, just like throwing a book of matches in when you plant a pepper plant.
Ruger, can you explain the concept of the rusty nails when time permits. Thanks in advance.
Trapper- how old are the trees you are grafting to? Are you bark, cleft, etc grafting? I ordered 6 b118 rootstock from Cummins nursery to graft to but also want to try it on some of our trees.
Another thing to think about - if you are planting these for the deer. Mix in some crab-apples. The Harrelsons and Honeycrisps tend to mature early, then drop in the fall. If you want to still attract the deer into the winter, you have to get something that matures late.
My pop has a variety of crab-apples - some still have fruit on the trees well into January. Grouse (eat the smallest apples - although still really big for the bird size) and deer will still appear looking for them.
RJN, I primarily do cleft grafting but on occasion I will rind graft. I'm not sure but I think I have slightly better luck with clefts.
What Ruger said about transplanting trees you dig being planted with the same compass orientation as it was before you dug it is important. I said in an earlier post to orient trees you purchase with the strongest root into he prevailing wind but that was only because you don't know what compass orientation the tree had when it was dug up.
I have a question on a similar topic.
If a person was to plants shrubs like say highbush cranberry, would those need to be fenced off too for some number of years?
When is it considered to late to trim apple trees?
I prune our trees after the worse temps of the winter is over. I will be out there in the next few weeks.
I checked mine this morning and it looks like the rabbits did a number on 3 or 4 of them.
hoping they'll be OK.
MF, I have pruned mine back as late as mid April in Central Wisconsin. I usually shoot for March and do it during Maple Syruping.
OK, so I still have time. Thanks Trapper
I will weigh in on potted trees. What happens to a root in a pot? It goes circular. That pattern can stay and eventually kill the tree with root zones being chocked. At a minimum, reduced vigor. I can always tell a potted or balled/burlaped tree. They look like a telephone pole shoved in the ground. A healthy tree has a raised root zone leading from the truck.
Also, when potted, those pots many times stay above ground. This leads to extreme temperature fluctuations. Overheated summers and frozen block winters. Again, reduced vigor.
Don't think planting a big tree transplanted buys you time. You end up with a big tree with reduced vigor for years, if not forever. I will always race somebody. I will take a seedling, they take a ball.
As for what time of year to plant, I will always take spring. Spring planting allows a vigor to start roots with moisture prior to maybe freezing solid in winter. A fall planting while some do it, means a tree sits somewhat disturbed all winter and trying to get moisture. Trees do need moisture in the winter, conifers are classic for winter burn. If root zone freezes, little water can nourish the needles and they dry out.
There is never 100% right way, but I think I have it dialed in.
I planted 200 Norway Spruce seedlings three years ago...most 15-18", although I think the seller was measuring the roots on a lot of them as most were more like 8-10"...anyway, when the heck will they actually start growing because I thought I was getting a "fast grower", but they haven't budged since the day they were planted...no new growth up or out?!?
Southfarm, are they getting any water? You might need to add some fertilizer to give them a kick start. They are on a growth timeline were they will never grow or slowly die if you don't help them. With just 200 of them you should be able to give them the help they need. I would start with a soil test to see what they need or just add some 10-10-10 and water them good the same day. Haul some 55 gallon drums of water to them if you need to. I used to have a 150 gallon sprayer tank I used for this purpose but sold it long ago. Give them as much water as practical for you to give them once a week or so when it is dry out. At least a gallon each, couple gallons if you can.
Sleep, creep, and leap. Our NS are on there 3rd yr also so I'm hoping they take off. Like Jeff said, triple 10 when the ground thaws.
South Farm, a lot going on with new planting. Generally, fertilizer is not needed, especially new plantings. Trees are amazing at growing in nutrient poor soil provided they get water.
From what you described, the seedlings had a fair amount of root mass. The best thing to do is take a sharp scissors and cut the roots back. If the roots are pushed into a hole and crooked, they grow poorly. I use a 3" auger and make a deep hole. I then push the seedling ALL the way to the bottom and slowly pull to proper level before packing soill firmly. This makes roots go straight down.
If soil is too wet or clay, most trees have a tough go. The root zone need air. Usually by year 3 spruce will take off. Be patient, hopefully yours do.
I forgot to mention more on seedling vigor. If the stock is not kept cool or roots dry out (or drown), seedlings take a hit. I always refrigerate or keep as cool as possible until in ground. Do not put seedlings in pail of water, even for a short period. Do not let wind dry roots when planting. Best is a polymer root gel (geletin granules in a pinch). Coat roots. Cool and moist goes a long way to keeping roots viable.
I went with Norway Spruce because they are purported to grow well in poor soil. I also planted the seedlings myself because I had read about J-rooting and I did not want to have to trust somebody else to plant my trees correctly...I did as Treefarm mentioned by pushing them all the way down and then pulling up. The one thing I did not do, and wasn't even an issue until year two, was to beat back the competing vegetation...I have A LOT of raspberry and blackberry on my land so this spring I'm going to address that issue. Water wasn't a problem as we've had decent precip, but I'll also do more there and haul water to help them along. On a positive note, last fall I discovered a good amount of natural regeneration of Jack Pines...they seem to be doing better than the Norway Spruce all by their lonesome with no help by me.
Great thread guys and thanks for all the great information. First time fruit tree planter and its getting close and have a few questions. If I go with 6 ft 12 gauge wire 2x4 spacing is 4 ft distance around tree enough? Also I have been having a whole lot of issues with bears. Tipped a small tree over with my tree stand in it, mauled my tent, and threw my camera in my pond all this past year. Do you think they will destroy my tree fences or trees? What about when they start producing fruit? Any thing that can be done to deter them from these trees?
The wire is for deer, rabbits and other annoying critters. From what I've seen, if a bear wants your apple trees bad enough you lose..
Man... I had a whole pear tree disappear last week.
Lesson learned. I'm using drainage tile to protect them next year's.
Many other trees have almost been girdled.
Found 5-6 apple trees on the new property I purchased. They are 6-8" in diameter and nearly 20' tall. My brother noticed all the apple trees were growing under or nearly under dense pine cover. The pines mature so my guess is the apple trees grew later at random. Probably to late to prune but should I clear out the pines around them?
If your planning on hunting by them the pines might add more seclusion but if they are totally blocking the sunlight I would fire up the chainsaw.
I'm going to start grafting this week. Also going to see if I can get my apple trees sent this week and planted. Overnight lows are above freezing the next 10 days.
Very little seems to grow under pines so I wasn't sure if the acidic soil they tend to create is benefiting them or not.
You would not need to cut down any pines on the north side of the apple trees unless they are close enough for their roots to suck up water and nutrient that the apple trees will need.
I was still pruning apple trees at hayward Thursday, but the important ones were done 2 weeks ago. Been working on some wild apple trees on the neighbors property that have been ignored for many years and what little pruning did happen was done leaving 1-3" stubs on the trunk so they had to be cut back to the trunk. I probably spent 2 hours on each tree and they will need more work in the future as I did not do the really tall branches.
Anyone use compost when planting? I used some organic stuff in the bottom of the hole and now hear I was suppose to mix it with topsoil. I planted 1 chestnut crabapple and 2 libertys.
Well....tis the season.
What fruit trees are people planting right now?
I just ordered a pear tree and will probably also order a couple Red Rome apples that ripen in mid October. They're hard to zone 4.
I have a few dwarf apple trees mixed in with the pines. Planted in 2003 and they are doing just fine.
I have some Wolf Rivers that I Will be planting this weekend to replace the ones that the critters girdled over winter. I thought I might loose 10 or 12, but only 2 didn't make it.
I mix compost in the hole and this year I am going to make sure the grass in the drip line is gone, and make sure all the trees are protected with wire mesh before the snow flies....
What can I use to kill the grass without harming the trees? I don't want to do something stupid and kill the trees.....Thanks
I just use gly on calm day
I have a few branches that didn't bud. Should I prune them now oe wait till fall?
People will probably disagree but I'd wait till June just to give them a chance.
If it's over grown you should do some heavy pruning.
Mike F. Use Simazine (Princep). You can spray right over leaves or needles and not harm tree. It is long-acting and your sprayer will rinse free of residue.
My guess is you dont have many apple trees?
1) plant 5 yo bareroot 2) cage with 10 lineal feet of 5 foot cage and 2 tpost to prevent deer/bear 3) staple a 3 foot high aluminum window screen to the trunk for winter vole girdiling. Any planting less and you lose.
Sure don't, just a few in the yard. Again though...What the heck is that!?
I used 17 linear feet of 5' re-mesh for caging. That gets > 5' diameter. I staked those down with tent stakes because the re-mesh is heavy as it is. I did the window screening. I also added stones on landscape fabric around each tree to prevent weeds/grass competition and because the mice/voles won't bother to dig through it to girdle like they do with mulch.
This may sound crazy, but I have experimented most everything to keep Meadow Voles from girdling trees. The fastest and longest lasting...wait for it...3M Rubberized Undercoating. I spray about 1.5 feet of trunk ground up. It stretches when tree grows. Not a permanent barrier, but can fix a lot of trees quickly.
...then there is deer damage. Seems only a sharp broadhead works for that.
Tree farm- is there a age the tree should be before you attempt the flex coat? I believe I've seen you mention this before but was scarred about it being oil based/petroleum based. Let's say I have bench grafts from this year in my garden to nurse along... are they to young? Do you think the as seen on t.v. flex seal stuff would be better being that it comes in white? I'm a big tree tube fan but like to have options. And maybe both options would help. Also will this prevent the annoying low buds on the trunk from developing (really annoying to lift hundreds of tree tubes to remove these)?
I purchased 7 pear trees from Woodstock nursery, 5 Kieffer and 2 Parker. All are in the ground and seem to be doing well. I was disappointed however that 2 of the Kieffers have about a 2 foot trunk then 2 branches looking like a U growing strait up. Do I leave them alone or do I remove one branch ? If I am to remove one do I do it now or wait until a certain time of year? These strait up branches are about 2 to three feet long. Picture a strait stick with a horse shoe sitting on top. Hoping for some suggestions.
Northbound, I was fit to be tied losing sugar maple seedlings. This this what I started doing. I did a control row ( no treatment) and a row sprayed. To this day, the test row has almost 100% survival. The control row has very few..and those are reproutef. I then started doing new Apple trees ??. Now Apple trees are not gnawed. I used 3M brand. Mainly heptane as organic which flashes quickly. I was worried about the non-polar organic solvents but they never bothered the trees. That said, "test on hidden piece of fabric".
Must add, tree tubes (I.e. Blu-X) are great but accelerate growth. This can lead to flimsy trunks. Apple trees are tough because first mice, then deer. Again, a good sharp broadhead works, but tough to hit those voles.
Thanks treefarm. Think I'll do some trails with that white flex seal as well. Thanks to trapper giving me a wonderful surplus of scions- More than I could graft onto my wild fence line Apple trees. I ended up finding 40 dwarf bud9 rootstocks on Craig's list to use the rest of the scions up. Only had enough tree tubes to do half of those. Good opportunity to test the coating methods as I have a rabbit issue, no unprotected Apple will survive winter on my land, took me ten years of losses to admit to myself that every single one needs some protection
WIBuck, take a picture. I can help you. Generally. Don't prune a new tree until roots establish...and then, only during dormancy. If you are growing a veneer quality tree, that is one thing, a fruit tree, only prune weak joints.
Thanks Treefarm the next time I get over to this land I will take a picture.
I discovers a single apple tree on the land I hunt. It is full of flowers, so in guessing I shouldn't prune it. I have also hunted by this tree for 3 years but have never seen an apple.Is it possible that the flowers don't turn into apples? And should a plant a few more around next year to promote fruiting?
Reggie - Are you sure it's an apple tree? Not a plum, a pear, or a choke cherry? There are a lot of trees with blossoms out there.
If it is an apple tree I am sure it would like company.
I had to cut one down today that was split by a big branch from a white pine tree. I counted the rings and it was 35 years old. Glad that only one got killed....
Mike F- I THINK so, but I will try to make a positive ID next time I'm up. I guess I never thought about it being a different tree. It looks so, appleish!
I have become a huge fan of the attached website for all things habitat. It is an offshoot of the old QDMA site after they shut down. There is a section dedicated to fruit trees.
I read about the Flex Seal solution on there and they advocated using the white just like some people paint a white paint/water mix on the trees for some protection. I think the white was better to prevent over heating from the sun.
Chestnut crabapples are great pollinators. I'm seeing crabapples now on my 3 yr old trees.
Treetubes envite voles to nest...,..goodluck with that
I got my pear tree today.
Didn't have anything to fortify the soil so I just top dressed with some wood ash.
Will it help any? Figured it would as potassium....
