Bowsite.com

I thought someone posted a study on here (maybe it was the MA page) in the spring showing that total fawn deaths attributed to non human predators was around 30% with the highest % being bears, then bobcats and coyotes split the rest... Roughly - dont quote me :). Serious question though - Is that about right?

We have something in common - I was also bitten by a dog as young boy, got $25 from the owners insurance and they paid the doctor bills, no rabies shot needed though.

That's OK, but please don't tell me you're living with 30 cats.

did the bob cat test positive for rabies?

Yes-see link. I had suspected this would turn out to be the case as ordinarily bobcats are wary of human contact.

I know, don't take things there Bob. Sorry, I can't help myself sometimes,....I'm bored. Why can't shawnm start another live hunt??? It's either his fault or Obama's. Just kidding shawnm, love watching your hunts, Obama,.....no so much.

Why isn't lyme being considered for the Staten Island project with WB if it's such a problem? Seems inconsistent to me. If SI has a problem with car/deer collisions then killing (WB, not hunters) them immediately fixes the problem, not vasectomies. You already pointed out that deer kill so many people, so it would seem like a logical solution.

Doc's position can be summed up this way: In Redding you have to kill most of the deer so people don't get Lyme Disease or hit them with their cars, but in Staten Island, you just have to neuter them. What we still haven't heard from him is why he is apparently just fine with those New Yorkers getting Lyme Disease or hitting deer with their cars. Maybe he's a Red Sox fan?

It gets worse.67,000 people are injured each year in the UK trying to peel the cellophane off a packet of sandwiches or open a ring-pull can.

Research shows that around seventy per cent of British people are ‘concerned’ or ‘very concerned’ about national security. I would hazard that around zero percent worry about putting on their socks.

Or near to zero: Googling “design” and “homeland security” yields a score today of 3,220,000; Googling “design” + “putting on socks” + “safety” yields a score of 840.

It gets worse.67,000 people are injured each year in the UK trying to peel the cellophane off a packet of sandwiches or open a ring-pull can.

Research shows that around seventy per cent of British people are ‘concerned’ or ‘very concerned’ about national security. I would hazard that around zero percent worry about putting on their socks.

Or near to zero: Googling “design” and “homeland security” yields a score today of 3,220,000; Googling “design” + “putting on socks” + “safety” yields a score of 840.

V. Not sure why we are talking about accidents in the UK. But CT hunters want more opportunity to hunt deer and the CT public are looking for sensible densities so they don’t hit them with their cars and so their kids don’t get bitten by ticks and get sick. Should be a match made in heaven, but no. Something can be done about the number of vehicle collisions with deer, have fewer deer. See the link here. Doesn't have to be sharpshooting, can be hunting, if hunters were willing.

If hunters could get it done, they would have ample opportunity to do so, and that is the point I have been trying to get across. But when deer densities get to a certain level, hunters complain there are no deer around, blame DEEP, and then advocate for Sunday hunting all in the same breath. In an instance like Staten Island, they chose they route they chose for the reasons they thought were important. That was their decision, not mine. Sometimes hunting isn’t the answer, like in Staten Island, and when hunting can’t get deer densities low enough, which is most of the time.

Again, I am not hell-bent on killing deer. There are public health concerns that facilitate additional deer management strategies like baiting, like Sunday hunting, like 4.5 month seasons, like unlimited tags, like use of crossbows, like no setbacks for archery, etc. Hunters are all in for preserving public health when it gets them something like Sunday hunting, but then when a guy like me calls them out on it, I get crap like Chas writes in a lame attempt to insult me for seeing things for what they are.

But man, Dr Williams, I read your posts and it just really furthers for me a belief that's really been growing the past several years for me. Hunters need to stop justifying our enjoyment of hunting through primarily a population control focus. Sure, that's a good outcome of hunting... But man... It really paints "us" into a corner.

What do you do when the population really is low? How do you justify hunting then? It feels like a slope towards really depressed opportunities to hunt, or at least, a highly mechanized view of hunting.

Feels like "we" ought to "fight" for it based on other merits and note that some real positives may include things like: population control, forest regrowth etc...

They are similar approaches, but feel really different to me.

Today was the day doc made it to the ahole list.

Clearly you are here posting just to play devils advocate and annoy people. Congrats!!! You've done it.

I guess to show how stupid stats are and easily manipulated they can be...i could care less if 18 people died from paper cut infections since the invention of the Gutenberg press

What Doc is incapable of grasping, is that most Hunters are not looking to kill as many deer as possible, we want a healthy herd, and shockingly we expect honesty and integrity from these public employees whose salary we pay.

Asking for Sunday Hunting, or additional access, has nothing to do with wanting to kill more deer. It's about getting to enjoy our passion, and it's about fairness and property rights. Every serious bow hunter I know thinks we should reduce the deer take, and most of us agree that the number of tags should be reduced.

Doc likes to say that he doesn't work for the DEEP, or speak for them, but then he comes here and speaks for them, hmmm. Seems like most guys here have figured him out. He doesn't bowhunt but he sure spends a lot of time here tellling Bowhunters what we need to do. He's not Plaing Devil's Advocate, he's Trolling.

Crow, sorry if pointing out the obvious annoys you.

And let's talk about Sunday hunting? Did you also forget to mention those same asking for Sunday hunting are asking for reduced bag limits and changing the tagging process to avoid unreported kills? Sure you did!

And please tell us why a DEEP employee can't tell us what impacts the deer herd that they're responsible for managing? Is there a law against educating the public? I've spoken with more than one game warden in my 48 years afield and they were always there to discuss the deer herd in the areas I was hunting, even when I disagreed with them. Talk about ridiculous.

Let's also throw in your recent comments about how deer kill so many people and make thousands of others sick, and yet you arguing that your good friend Tony D is doing the right thing on Staten Island by de-nutting (yeah, I know that pisses you off instead of saying vasectomy) instead of killing and removing these disease plagued killers of the human race.

And let's not forget your outright lies when you tried to tell us that Great Mountain Forest has a deer problem. You didn't know that I know the caretaker there and discussed your comments with him and he said whoever said that doesn't know what he's talking about!! The only deer problem we have is there are none!

My, my we have the little boy on the playground that no one wants on their team, but you still try to play with us. You must be so lonely to spend your time on site where everyone thinks you should disappear. I guess you've counted all the ticks (what an exciting, interesting job you have) and now you're bored, so you'd rather get roasted on this site then find another hobby.

Why don't you start a thread for that rather than filling this up with BS....

What I find ironic, is that any time anyone searches Scott Williams, or Tony DiNicola, or White Buffalo, these threads will show up in the search results, and then they can decide for themselves if WB is worth hiring, despite all the crap they bring along with them; or if Scott Williams is worth considering for that big job counting bugs. Maybe Mike in CT can do the math for us on business and opportunities lost.

The more Doc chimes in, the more people see what he's really all about. Priceless.

However, when I contacted Jody Bronson at GMF ( a place I hunted for years) he stated whoever said we have too many deer on the property doesn't know what they're talking about, there are none; and you tried to deflect that lie by saying you called Jody and had a good laugh. Does that refresh your memory?

Your agenda is the only thing you're interested in and it's what you promote on this site. Anyone who challenges your statements is a fool in your eyes, and most of the time we're talking about opinions, not facts. That's what pisses us off. Just like when you say less deer equals less ticks equal less lyme disease. That's not a fact, that's an opinion. The science doesn't prove what you say as a fact.

Why don't you go on the PETA website and present you deer kill agenda? Tell them that all the deer need to be killed to save us from lyme disease. Or how about you go to Staten Island with your good friend Tony D from WB and tell those politicians and the residents that all the deer on the island need to be kill just to save the masses from lyme disease and deer/car collisions. Or is it that you don't believe in your own agenda enough to stand behind your words and beliefs? You chose to hide behind a keyboard on a bow hunting site where you're opinions are not welcomed. That doesn't make sense in my opinion and apparently most guys on this site feel the same.

It's just too easy to poke holes your arguments, maybe that's why some chose to call you an a-hole because they can't believe a sensible person would conduct themselves the way you do on this site. Let me put it this way,.... you tick us off:)

Bob. The topic of conversation was organizations that had controlled hunts for deer management purposes. I have that original thread saved somewhere. I've known Jody for years, been working up at GMF for 17 years, have done spotlight counts there, have been working with MDC, etc. I know there are not a lot of deer up there, and these guys are being proactive in having a deer management program before things got out of control. Most municipalities and agencies wait until things are out of control before doing anything about them. Look at the mess in FF County. Good grief.

"less deer equals less ticks equal less lyme disease". More "fake news" from BBB. The scientific literature says otherwise (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25118409).

Bob, i know it's easier for you make stuff up and put words in my mouth, but try thinking instead. I guess we are in the era of Trump where facts don't matter neither does proving falsehoods wrong with facts. Like inaugural attendance. It was the most attended inauguration ever in the history of the world!!!! The only reason it looked like the mall wasn't full was because they put protective coverings down on the grass.

What is your definition of a controlled hunt? Mine, as stated earlier, is "a coordinated effort to lethally manage deer using hunters." Please share your definition with us. Please.

When take is referred to in terms of a "season" I would tend to agree that this doesn't sound like a controlled hunt.

GMF is a permit-required area but then so are many others that allow deer hunting during the season (e.g. Skiff Mountain) so I wouldn't equate the requirement of a permit with meeting the definition of a controlled hunt. FYI, there are permit-required areas for small game (e.g. pheasants) as well and as this is basically put-and-take hunting I don't think anyone would every classify this as a controlled hunt.

Controlled hunts (aside from having an objective of reducing overpopulation of deer) by contrast are generally restricted (or limited) in a number of ways that differ from "regular" hunting-some examples:

*Limited to a set number of days *May have restrictions on days of the week and can have restrictions as to hours of the day *May require hunting from treestands only *May specify no field dressing of deer taken *May restrict the use of weapons (e.g. archery only) *May be limited to state officials only (e.g. CT DEEP) *May require hunters to park in designated areas only f *May require permitted hunters to visibly display permits in their parked vehicles.

The use of controlled hunts has been encouraged in areas with an overabundance of deer as a proactive management approach for a number of years. Given the low population of deer in GMF with respect to what many biologists consider "healthy deer densities" for healthy forest ecologies (18-20dpsm) it doesn't sound as though there would be a need for a controlled hunt.

My definition is this - "A controlled hunt is a hunt established in a designated area that is not/has not been open to hunting to the general public, and is used to reduce the deer herd to a specific number of deer. The number of hunters is limited and the number of deer taken is limited. Hunters must apply for a separate permit outside of the normal CT hunting license process to participate in a controlled hunt."

There you go, you see the difference? Mine is much more controlled than your, therefore the word "Controlled" is appropriate.

For the life of me I just don't understand why he keeps coming back?? But I think I'd miss him if he was gone?

You were not pointing anything obvious.

This what you posted:

"Let's talk when bobcats kill as many humans as deer do instead of just scratching them". This was a bobcat post until you hijacked the thread. I think you are a smart man (but I've been wrong a lot) and you just like attention so you are just looking to piss off people here. It doesn't annoy me cuz I have a supper natural ability to deal with aholes. It just gets boring and repetitive. You keep spewing your crap on every post and you'll just lose all credibility.

I'm just sayin...

Mike, I would have to disagree with you. GMF is not a permit-required area like Skiff Mountain. GMF does not have a joint agreement with DEEP. The only permit required to hunt GMF is written landowner permission, just like any other private land. If you search for “Great Mountain Forest” in the DEEP hunting regs, you get nothing. But I would generally agree with you about your take on controlled hunt definition.

Bob. I am guessing you are not in contact with Jody (based on his take of your last correspondence with him) but I just heard from a colleague in the know that 14 deer were taken on GMF this year. I should shoot Jody a message and confirm that number. I am going to disagree with your definition. “A controlled hunt is a hunt established in a designated area that is not/has not been open to hunting to the general public.” No. Look on page 24 of the CT hunting regs. All of the controlled hunt areas mentioned are open to the public and have been hunted previously. “and is used to reduce the deer herd to a specific number of deer. The number of hunters is limited and the number of deer taken is limited. Hunters must apply for a separate permit outside of the normal CT hunting license process to participate in a controlled hunt.” Generally, I would agree with this, but it is not always the case. Mike’s definition was more accurate, the “control” isn’t about DEEP limiting take further.

So it is clear we are having trouble defining “controlled hunt” so I just got off the phone with a fellow certified wildlife biologist at DEEP’s Wildlife Division and asked him to define it. He said that it is tough because there is no written definition of it anywhere. But when I asked him to come up with his own definition, without prompting him, after some thought, said a controlled deer hunt is:

“A management tool used to reduce deer populations to a level that is compatible with the management regimes prescribed for the property.”

So given that definition straight from the horse’s mouth, GMF has a controlled hunt, as does MDC, Town of Redding, Town of Ridgefield, Town of Guilford, Town of whatever, Nature Conservancy, Aquarion Water Company, South Central Connecticut Regional Water Authority, all of the agencies and municipalities I mentioned in that earlier post Bob loves to incorrectly refer to.

I tottaly agree with your statement. Go sit in a corner and wait. Comeback to us when it happens.

No, I haven't talked with Jody in a while since I like hunting where there are deer. GMF has 6,000 acres and all they took was 14 deer for the entire season with high powered rifles, bows, muzzle loaders, shotguns, or whatever!!! You think that's a good place to hunt?

And why are you quoting the DEEP handbook on controlled hunts??? That has zero to do with our discussion. You didn't ask me what the handbook said, you asked me for MY definition. I'm getting really tired of having to remind of things Doc, please take notes so you can keep up with the conversation.

And why do you think the biologists definition is any different than what you wrote? It still fits EVERY form of hunting in the state. We're limited by the tags were given, the days we can hunt, the length of the season, etc. If the state is not trying to get the herd to a certain population then why do they track the kill at all? Why do they limit us with less tags during one season, like the gun season and more tags during others? Aren't they limiting the take Doc to get the population to a certain level?! Why don't they let us kill those damn people killing deer all year long, or at least most of the year like coyotes. Deer kill more people than coyotes so why not have a season from early Jan to late Dec, just like coyotes? Because they want a certain population, so they control how many are killed. It's just that simple.

And you still never answered my previous challenge to you. If you're so damn convinced your approach to game management is correct, then why aren't you at Staten Island convincing the politicians that the deer need to be killed, not sterilized? Just tell us all, as the all knowing authority on the evil deer empire where you draw the line on helping the general public survive the ravages of the deadly deer. I guess it only applies when Tony gets big money and you get to count ticks. I guess you just know can't convince them, any more than you can convince us.

And in my conversations with Jody, he mentioned that he never gave you permission to hunt GMF property, but that he gave you permission to cross GMF to get to your state land spot. So when in yesterday's post you stated "Let me refresh your memory concerning one LIE (to keep it simple) you were caught in" regarding some bogus fictitious claim of yours, it is in fact you who are lying when you stated today "However, when I contacted Jody Bronson at GMF ( a place I hunted for years)" because you never have hunted GMF property legally, ever.

So this is three lies regarding you and your relationship with GMF. Some might call that, pathological. What's funny is that in past posts, you mentioned that they gave you permission to cross GMF property and you encouraged others on this site to speak to property owners to cross their properties to get in the backdoor of state properties, remember??? Best to think Bob before barfing up lies on the keyboard and falsely accusing others of the same. I think it's safe to say that my relationship with GMF is real while yours is in some fantasy land.

A while to me means the past several months. To be specific, if you in fact have that thread when we discussed GMF, I think it was last year, that's the last time I contacted Jody.

I'm sorry to say Jody is mistaken. Initially Bridgeport Hydraulic granted me permission to cross their property for several years and I would use the Peat Rd on the west side and a utility road on the east. Jody granted me permission to cross their property for several year, and that in my eyes constitutes a pretty good relationship. After several years of asking for hunting permission, and waiting for other hunters to drop off the list, I was granted permission to hunt the area west of the Peat Road for the last couple of years that I hunted that area.

I'm POSITIVE that if Jody were to take the time to look back through his records he would find this to be true, but I don't want to make this about Jody and GMF because I've always respected what they do there. I have no reason to lie about GMF because they were only brought into my discussions with you when you lied about GMF conducting a hunt to reduce an over population of deer in the area.

In this case Doc you just don't know what you're talking about. I won't call it a lie because your comments involve GMF, so get back with Jody and ask him to research his records. I'm SURE you'll come back to the site and post a correction to your mis-information.

And Steve - if you followed anything I've posted in the past you would KNOW that I supported Sunday hunting for private landowners and I also said I would never use Sunday as a day to hunt, because to me Sunday has a different meaning. And don't forget, we're all still limited by the number of tags the DEEP give each hunter and the DOC has said several times that we have too many deer and the DEEP is doing the right things, not the hunters on this site saying we need to let does walk and only take what we can eat. Nice try!

Bob it is pretty clear to all that it is you who are confused. I know when you emailed him, February 13, 2016. I save all these threads so I can refer back to them. Oh and I see here you asked him if he ever hired a sharpshooter. Oh and I see in the same thread no one said anything about sharpshooting, ever, except you for some reason. Again, if the last time you communicated with him was 346 days ago, how on earth did he tell you about this year “Jody said they only took 7 deer all season.”? And how did he tell you about me “Jody said don't ask for permit, you'd be better off hunting on main st.” Pathological comes to mind or maybe you are having conversations with him in your own head? So in the attached image, where you are directly calling me a liar about something I never said anyway, it is in fact you who are lying about talking to a friend of mine I woodcock hunt with annually and correspond with periodically. Why would you do that? It’s just weird, but it does help to verify the bogosity of the other random outbursts you have had in the past. It’s kind of like lying about attendance at an inauguration, if you have eyes in your head it is so easily proven false. In this case, you just told us in your last post “. . . I think it was last year, that's the last time I contacted Jody.” I have your original email to him from Feb 13th 2016 asking him your nonsense and hinting at permission to bow hunt GMF too if you want to see it.

I said they were seeking low deer densities through a coordinated or “controlled hunt” for forest regeneration as they are a working forest. Then you said something to the effect that “GMF would NEVER EVER EVER EVER hunt to reduce the deer population.” That is just genius Bob. How the heck do those guys hunt deer without reducing the deer population?? We better figure this out and institute the same program in Zone 11 and quick!

You save all the threads??!!! Really??!! Why? Is it because you feel the need to document what you say so you can spin your last reply (lie) to fit the current situation in hand? You know, spin control. A phrase used often when it comes to you. Or is it because you have nothing better to do with your time? If you tell the truth there's no reason to document past comments now, is there?

Man do you ramble. How did you get to the attendance at the Trump inauguration? Then again, you took the bobcat thread and turned it into killer deer killing all of mankind,....save the children and forget about bocats! Man, it was just a thread about a bobcat in the news. Your mind works in a Funny way Doc!

Yes, it was last Feb and that's a while ago in my book, so what's your point? I never said it was Nov 13, 2016 at 5:03 PM, did I? And it was last Feb is when Jody said "You don't what you're talking about". Jody wasn't talking about YOU Doc, what he said was "Whoever said we have too many deer here doesn't know what they're talking about (liar, or maybe stupid), but you already knew that was you, didn't you. You'll find that in the thread as well, but you won't copy and paste that part, will you!! And it was last Feb when Jody told me they had only taken 7 deer for the season, so that would be the 2015-2016 season (there's more than one season Doc), but you won't post that part either, right? And YES I asked him if he ever considered using sharpshooters since you were the one who said this was one of the areas that had too many deer. Post that as well, I said it then and I say it again. No lie there.

So let me summarize so there's no confusion in your mind. It was last Feb when I asked Jody about everything mentioned above and he said (1) there's no deer on the plateau (2) whoever said that doesn't know what they're talking about (that's you) (3) don't ask for a permit because there's no deer (4) the current crew only took 7 deer for the season (5) and there were 10 million people at the Trump inauguration. OK, he didn't say #5, that's just me having some fun. I'm SURE you'll say I was lying about that one at some point in the future :)

So Doc - this is getting old. You continue to struggle for some kind of credibility and all do you is lie about your lies, but it's understandable when you tell soooo many. I know there's no ticks out this time of year to count and I know you really enjoy playing with me, your only friend, but I'm taking my ball and going home now. Bye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9c0wOX5dMc

This is more my speed

And now back to our regulary scheduled winter program of counting ticks on a flees ass and the detriment they pose to humanity during the summer months when it's warm as opposed to the winter when it's cold..and dark...and disturbingly dismal......