Bowsite.com

I understand it's within the law but I frankly don't understand it.

And another question - since the KBA is supposedly a powerful lobby group in regards to hunting in our state - why has the KBA not been able to get the KDWPT to eliminate any season tags, and statewide tags and severely limit or eliminate mule deer stamps for out of state hunters - seems the # of mule deer stamps issued to OOStaters has slowly crept up yearly as I predicted it would -

As a resident I like the flexibility of statewide tags or the large Eastern/Western Unit Mule Deer Rifle tags, but I dont think it's right. Maybe as a compromise let a resident pick 2 or 3 contiguous units to hunt but thats it.

Lastly the deer leasing is ruining the WIHA program. It is just sickening the amount of WIHA lost the past 2-3 years even. If I'm to take any positive out of it...it may open up the doors more for me to knock on landowners doors in a place I really like to go since they will now have decreased hunter traffic - or so I think. It was refreshing 2 days ago on a hunt when I visited with a landowner (EXTREMELY large land owner as in K's of acres) who said deer hunters are just a pain in the ass - I think the family was to a point where any money coming in from leasing really didnt matter to them so they wouldnt do it. That was nice - I've been able to hunt 3 years in a row for birds and I hope it continues. I frankly hope most of the states white tails get wiped off the map with some disease like EHD so people will stop coming here in search of the mystical big booner that lives behind every tree. Deer hunting has ruined access and ruined bird hunting as far as I'm concerned. The downhill slide started about 1996. I want to start my son on deer hunting and we will hunt mulies or simply travel out of state. But I have a while to think about that - he's only 2 1/2 now.

Cheers.

That being said......

The other 2 questions I believe are fairly pertinent. Deer greed is ruining other hunting opportunities much less deer hunting opportunities. It's not just our local residents but those who come here with wet dreams of having their opportunity mirror what is reflected on TV shows.

Coupled with that, we have zero deer management in place when folks are allowed to hunt statewide and in any season, much less archery season stretching as long as it does and virtually unlimited tags. I respect hunting with a bow - tried it for a couple years in high school but with the time I have I'd rather devote it to other things at this point/past points in my life....may try again when I'm retired and have nothing else going on. I love to muley rifle hunt but I should not be allowed to hunt anywhere from OK to NE and in about a 100 mile wide swath if you're either in the east or west zone. Mule deer hunters should be confined to one or two units much like white tail deer hunters.

However I think if we took a long hard look we'd admit there is about zero management happening/going on. If the KBA is a powerful voice is there a reason this hasn't been addressed? I think it was Sito that offered and fulfilled his pledge of providing a membership for a first timer a year or two ago and I accepted - I appreciated it for sure. However as someone who's primary interest is not archery and after reading the magazine and based on discussions here it seems that for the most part the KBA is only interested in archery and deer related matters. Maybe I'm wrong? I hope so. Maybe this will open some fresh dialogue for 2017.

As far as the other points, I agree that greed and mis-management put forth by our KS legislators are both of major concern.

Have fun in the "out of doors" with your little one, and have a great 2017!

A resident being able to purchase a statewide tag good for any season for White tails is ludicrous. Same as being able to hunt with a crossbow during archery (I'd actually like to hunt with a cross bow - but think it should have it's own season or be limited more than folks using compounds/traditional setups) On top of that archery season is too long (proposed for 2017 nearly 4 months -- you really need roughly 1/3 of the year to try and harvest an animal?) So many things need to change (inc either species tags for archery being OTC). The only good thing that happened was the elimination of T-tags some years ago, however when they went away state shifted to virtually providing unlimited out of state tags and unlimited otc resident tags, it really was for naught but it did likely help shift some of the revenue to the revenue starved KDWP.

I'd pay to join the KBA again if they stood for all hunters, I'm not getting that impression. I dont think I've heard one of you knock the states management practices besides blame it on the legislature or a loss of CRP. To those in the know - what are the KBA's stances on the states complete lack of management. I was thinking if I recall that you all pushed for a longer archery season as a compromise to allowing cross bows - maybe I have it backwards, but something like that comes to mind.

With a lot of Brownbacks lackeys out of office now is there a possibility people are in office that actually care about wildlife? I still can't understand why folks cant see the big picture - if they want to create more revenue and economic stimulus they'll do it by focusing on upland bird populations and hunting opportunities which in turn will trickle down to everything else.

Lloyd had a chart that compared length of season and satisfaction rating, primarily for firearm hunters. Even if you tagged a deer, the further into season you got, the less satisfied you were.

I can only speak for myself, but am seldom in the woods before early/mid October. Don't like to sweat and swat bugs, then say I'm having fun. I think most bowhunters that I talked to feel the same way.

Instead of stirring the pot here, sounds like you need to be attending the commission meetings and expressing yourself.

Through here! Think I'll go sling a few arrows?

And no, I don't use feeders. Couldn't afford it even if I wanted to.

I hunt over and put my cameras overlooking natural scrapes or mock scrapes that I make in late-Oct. I killed my last 2 bucks over such scrapes.

You can get just as good of an inventory while hunting near or placing cameras overlooking scrapes.

On top of that, it is natural for deer to visit scrapes...they have been doing it for centuries and thus a lot longer than visiting corn piles.

Damn Husker, you are beginning to sound like, well, ME! You better watch it or you will bring Habitat for Wildlife or Osage Orange out of the woodwork to jump on your back!

I would mostly blame trophy hunting bowhunters for taking all or most of my permissions. Bowhunting has taken over in my impression, not the any-season tags that allows hard working men the opportunity to hunt once in a while. As for bow season, I would be all for reducing the number of days into segments. I would be all for outlawing feeders, isolating crossbows to their own season, reducing NR tags (like Iowa), and overall requiring everyone to complete a minimum level of competency bowhunting class to reduce the cripples. Some countries in Europe require hunters to become thoroughly competent before they ever step afield. I'm tired of seeing slob hunters that kill everything that moves with no respect for the animals or the habitat.

Jason,so you take a 240 yard shot at a running deer and kill one at 507 yards and you want to mandate that bowhunters take a competency course to help reduce cripples?

Rationale?

I'll email my representative when I'm aware of issues - that being said if there is an association who watches out for all hunters, especially the residents I'd like to join them. Right now I dont think anyone can argue deer hunting is the root of all evil and is what has ruined not only deer hunting opportunities/access for many, appears to have decreased the trophy quality and most importantly to me, has removed any focus off of upland which is what our state used to be known for, I think it's no small coincidence the trophy quality and # of mature deer was far higher than it likely is today when our upland habitat and #'s were far superior.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/harvest/deerharvest.html

As for my wish to go out of state - it was only if the hunting opportunities continue to dwindle and it would be for mule deer which I believe rules out ever wanting to set foot in WI -- I'll let you enjoy the hardwoods and the bitter cold winters up there, I was too busy enjoying the nearly 50 degree day today :)

As for the WT herd being decimated I really would not mind - I'd rather see more mule deer than White Tails - Id venture to guess Mulies are more of the native subspecies here anyways. I guess I went mulie and never went back - there's a similar saying about something else but you get the point.

Maybe you're just a bitter Badgers fan? Though I really dont have a pot to piss in being a Husker fan as of late...but am holding out hope we are on an upward projectory with the new coach.

Best thread of the year so far!

We've got guys who are bowhunters but not really...someone who is scared of mosquitos...a woodsman...someone who actually believes a scent stick is the same as a pile of food...a guy who used "myriad" and "extrinsic" within two words of each other..........................and..............................a trainwreck!

Cheers my brothers! Keep on keepin on!

Before I go further, what is your angle Shane? You are critical of the KBA, but admit above that you rarely bowhunt anymore and only did for a few years in HS. Why even belong to bowsite or the KBA? Bowhunting is a way of life to many people I know and the KBA is the KS Bowhunters Association so their focus is going to be on maintaining and improving rules and regulations that benefit bowhunters rather than ALL hunters like you wish. Would a unified sportsman group be effective at working with the legislators and commissioners? Possibly so, but eventually one faction feels slighted and the group starts infighting due to differences in opinion on prioritizing their efforts.

With that said, have you contacted commissioners via email or attended meetings? Have you contacted legislators when they were working on proposed bills in the past? If not, I recommend doing so to get your ideas and concerns to people that can make a difference.

I am sorry that you feel hunting is so poor in Kansas. Yes, things have changed and not sure I would say for the better, but it is still a great state to live and hunt in. There is lots of opportunity to hunt upland birds and even deer without paying a dime. Upland habitat has always been a priority to the KDWPT biologists I know, but farmers don't like weeds and have been farming cleaner all the time. This last year, grain prices were low and chemical/fuel prices were high so some weeds actually grew in some wheat stubble fields, which made for GREAT brood rearing habitat for pheasants. Some of these fields are in WIHA. The CRP program has also been huge for raising pheasants and hiding big deer and LOTS of it has been converted back to farming in the last 5 years and now the national acreage cap has been lowered making it hard to get new land in the program. Hope there is a change to that, but not sure it will happen anytime soon.

You may be getting your wish. I feel our WT herd has significantly reduced in numbers in recent years. The farmers and other hunters I talk to are saying the same things.

Good luck to you this year.

Matt

Matt

I'd also think even if the KBA was only looking out for bowhunters and as you've stated WT#'s are down the KBA would push for more management. This doesn't appear to be the case.

I won't knock you for hunting over corn as it is legal and other than stating I do not agree with it, but we all have a right to our opinions. Frankly most of my friends use trail cameras and I'm not even a fan of those. I may buy one someday simply to collect the photos for my own amusement but wouldn't want to use it as part of my hunting toolbox. So I guess I have some quirks.

Lets just say I get to the point I'm aiming for where I have a business that fully runs itself and I can bowhunt all I want. I would still think it's absurd that the season runs for nearly 4 months, not including the doe seasons.

I just spoke to an old neighbor I keep in touch with who now lives in Idaho - he has a guest house on his property and invited me up anytime to use his place as a base to go hunting - I've started to study what would be around him and like most states that appear to have a solid management plan in place Idaho has their state broken up into far more units than KS does and vary the seasons and length by unit. They certainly do not leave deer season open for nearly 5 months like KS does if you live in Unit 15 & 19a? (The one up by KC?) if you're counting doe season as well.

I love to hunt and love the opportunities but I think the season is far to long. Not to mention the issue Jason presented with slob hunters wounding deer and continuing to hunt. I've wounded I believe 2 in my life if I recall I could not recover, one was a doe and the other a little 4 pt white tail buck so no one is immune to it, but if you shorten the season it will shorten the time these bozos have to continue this behavior amongst other things.

................ah, heck, never mind.

Yawn...........................

It's such a human tendency to justify what we like to do as "the" right way. Guilty, myself, too...

So...If I'm reading between the lines the KBA has asked for more management and shorter seasons but yet the KDWPT makes them longer and refuses to perform any sort of management? Is it a personnell issue where they simply do not have the manpower to manage anything so it's just a free for all? Help me understand.

As for meetings, I dont have time to drive many hours from Wichita to sit there for an hour and if I've followed meeting locations it's fairly infrequently they will have one if ever a meeting here. Secondly - I've always heard there is no point in attending per your statement above - "most words fall on deaf ears"

So like all things I'd like to think there is a solution. In the digital age, you can blow elected officials email boxes up by using facebook and rallying people online, blow the phone lines up, find elected officials personal cell #'s and post them for folks to call etc.

I'm not waiting for someone else to do the work, but in the digital age there are easier solutions than sitting in person and driving 4 hours to a meeting...ie some of my examples above.

Writer - you have a platform if you'd use it. You're nearing the twilight of your career - start getting the attitude of someone a little older and stop giving a crap what others think and use your platform to help with change. I'm not sure how closely your editors censor you but hey I'll chide you on. Start saying it like it is - pheasant #'s are not that great, quail is decent but still garbage compared to 15-20 years ago and the KDWPT is a complete disaster much like Brownbacks govt.

First off, do you understand how the decisions are made in recent years concerning game legislation, management, seasons, regulations etc?

You would have a clear picture of why things have happened if you had attended KDWP&T Commissioner Meetings, Legislative sessions, Legislative Committee hearings, Legislative house votes.

Those meetings are most always attended by a handful of hunting related lobbying groups represented by 1-5 members of each group. The media is usually in attendance, mostly to report on the big game issue items. The outdoor column writers are common fixtures at them. The rest of the attendees at the meetings are typically individuals promoting their own personal interests and ideas of what would produce "the best way" to manage our wildlife resources to benefit themselves. There is always a seat open at these meetings if people would just take the time to attend, stand up to speak out in person, rather than playing arm chair quarterback and criticizing from the sidelines and on the internet.

Just so you fully understand who "runs the show", the Kansas Legislature is the boss. They hold the purse strings and have authority over the KDWP&T's operations. The Legislature determines how much money the department is allowed to operate on, how they will operate, how the wildlife will be managed etc.

The lobbying groups; Kansas Farm Bureau, Kansas Livestock Assoc., other insurance lobbyists, K-State, Kansas Outfitters Assoc, NRA, Reps from Cabelas-Bass Pro and other sporting goods retailers, Muzzleloader and firearms clubs, KBA, and occasionally a handful of bunny and tree hugging groups.

Out of the above listed group of lobbyists, there is only one group listed that consistently lobbies for the conservation of the wildlife species over their personal gain/ interests each and every time. They have fought to preserve all resident hunter rights. They are at EVERY KDWP&T Commission meeting, nearly EVERY Legislative hearing on the big issues. They are not paid lobbyists, in fact most of the time they are attending the meetings on their own $. They do not have financial backing from big $$$ interest groups, they do not have the funding to smooze the politicians with gifts, meals, special hunts, and other "gifts" that the paid lobbyists use to convince legislators to vote certain ways. Their membership is a VERY small percentage of the archery hunters in Kansas, because it seems most archery hunters prefer to not get involved, have their voices and opinions considered. I do not agree with everything the KBA does, they are not perfect by any means(what group or club is?). I joined the KBA back in the 90's because I recognized their efforts at the meetings while attending them on my own to fight against the commercialism of our wildlife resources. I saw the KBA in their green shirts and hats at every single meeting and hearing. I met and spoke with their Legislative Chairman at the time. I was very impressed with their dedication and honest approach in their lobbying efforts. They supported measures proposed by other conservation groups if it benefitted Kansas sportsmen and would not negatively affect the wildlife resources. Wildlife conservation and preserving the rights of Kansas hunters was their primary goal. I ended up assisting their lobbyist with research and meeting with Legislators, preparing testimony, filling in for him when he could not be away from normal job, and eventually being named their Legislative Chairman during a very turbulent time back when deer commercialism first began making it's push into Kansas.

The other lobbying groups- Their lobbyists are mostly paid professionals with large scale financial backing, complete with professional offices and support staff doing the research and testimony preparation. They represent large scale agricultural interest groups. They have open door access to the Legislators due to their membership and financial position. There was one very vocal and loud lobbyist pushing the leasing/sales of hunting land while promoting deer commercialism back in those days. You all know him.

The Political factor- There are two main committees that deal with wildlife issues at the Capital, one in the Senate and one in the House. Bills are introduced in either the House or Senate. The Chair of each branch decides which bills are sent to the committees for further debate and consideration. The majority party decides who serves on said committees. The speaker of each house is typically decided by the majority party. They typically assign their most senior member to the speaker position. They also follow seniority rule when naming the committee chair. Legislators are assigned to the committees based on their back ground. In my term as a lobbyist, this meant members of the two committees consisted of landowners, farmers, ranchers, and a lawyer, doctor or school teacher from the left side of the aisle. Many of the committee members were actively involved with commercial hunting operations, many had outfitters doing business on their own properties. Out of those listed professions, ask yourself who do you think the legislators would most likely side with? Oh there were a handful of Legislators that listened and considered our testimony, that worked with us and tried to meet in the middle of the road. I was given the chance to testify at a joint conference committee hearing by one such legislator. He was one of the few that would meet with me, he chaired over the hearing that day. Typically, lobbyists are not allowed to speak at such hearings, it was rare opportunity, one I was not prepared for to say the least. He asked me to the podium and for the KBA's stance on the proposed bill being debated. After I spoke, he asked for a vote on the measure without allowing any other lobbyists to speak. For the most part we were sorely out numbered and had little to no chance to stop the commercialism push back in the day. In 2003, due to a promotion at my real world job, I had to resign the Legislative Chairman position as I could no longer go to the Capital building to lobby for them. I am still a member of the organization because I still believe in and support their legislative efforts.

There are retired legislators and lobbyists that were instrumental in the deer commercialism push that have held or are in power positions concerning wildlife issues.

Added in- Those that think the KDWP&T pushed for and promoted deer commercialism, didn't speak against the open border policies we have today, you should have gotten off the couch and went to the meetings yourself. They fought against all the liberalization of the tags and proposed measures to allow leasing to get in the door, until being told and shown by the Legislature that they would do as they were told or ALL regulations and decisions would be decided in Topeka.

But assuming it's true, to what do you guys attribute that? Baiting? (other states allow it). Crossbows? (ditto). Long season? (ditto again). Great hunters? High deer population-good management?

I would think if everyone hunting KS was holding out for a giant the success rate wouldn't be nearly so high.

Thoughts?

Matt, don't worry - I apparently lost the respect of the entire trad world when I bought a compound just to see what it was like to shoot and hunt with one, LOL!

Trebarker, no doubt. CO's elk success stats can be way off. For instance, my home unit is very tough hunting - rugged, low elk density. The archery success rate is ALWAYS around 7%, historically, including cows. Then for a few years it mysteriously jumped to 23%, with abnormally high bull success. One year it was almost all bulls killed. I only know of a few hunters who killed elk of any kind during those years (I passed some up each year but did not take one home), and the game warden told me he only checked a couple dead archery elk all season. He had no idea where those stats came from.

But then when people searched for high success rate units in which to apply, mine popped to the top, so people started putting in for the zero-point unit draw with as many as 10 points for a couple years. One guy blew 18 points. Now the reported success rate mysteriously has dropped back down to the 7% range. The cynical part of me thinks the CPW did that to get some people to burn elk points, and it worked.

Look forward to meeting you next month Lou, at this time I'm planning on being there but things could change at work keeping me from being able to go.

I understood the basics of how some of the stuff went down (IE legislature are calling some of the major decision/policy direction that was made, but definitely have gratitude for typing out some of the inner workings) - that being said, has the KBA ever considered morphing itself into something else where it stood for all hunters - I've helped with banquets etc for pheasants forever/quail forever but frankly I see no point in it as I've seen nothing gained from it other than a bunch of drunk/tipsy guys spending money that I have no idea where it goes - if something similar could be organized where it stayed local and fought for local folks I'm sure you could get a following. I'd for sure raise my hand to help.

As for not wanting to use technology and Writer refusing to admit he does hold a platform that can make a difference if he chose to use it, one could point to a few examples where things have changed at the statehouse due to the public outcry...one that comes to mind was the Eagles reporting on a law that was passed or was going to be passed allowing the state employees the right to refuse to sign off on a same sex marriage -- or something to that effect. Anyways the subject matter isn't that important - you get enough people fired up about something and have them light up phone lines and fill email inboxes it can help get things done.

I personally would not be opposed to having an organization with some financial heft to grease the wheels to get things done as the other lobbyists have done.

Michael, I dont think Ive ever met you personally as this will be the last response I'll pass your way but we do have a # of mutual friends I believe, so if we ever do have the chance to meet I would have the same discussions in person. As for saying I'm not seeing birds please quote me where I stated that, I've seen some but this season and last are still a far cry from a # of years ago. You are partially correct in that there are pockets where the #'s have not been this good in so many years, but the key is small pockets. I'm of the opinion if you increased your sample size and did a little bit more research and analyzed things in a subjective way, I'd guess you'd come to the conclusion that the bird #'s are not what they were. I will give you kudos for not posting the county and basic location of your quail hunt photo montage this year. That was a nice change - so I guess an old dog can learn a new trick from time to time, that or the person putting on the hunt laid the law down about not publishing it. The paper took away the weekly outdoors report email - they may give it back if you write some fiery articles throwing the legislators under the bus for their mismanagement, maybe have a great multi part investigative expose. I dont recall ever seeing a journalistic piece calling some of these guys out over the years. I wonder if your predecessor would have done so - he left about the time all these changes were starting to take place if I remember - but I was only a teenager when that happened.

I'm also not sure what gives you the impression I'm never happy and I probably do not know that much - have plenty to learn and hope to learn more until the day I die - the day you think you know it all you'll be proven wrong. That much I know.

You must be good! Ethical?

With that said, I think it can be effective, but I've never killed a buck over a pile. However, I never thought I would see the day, but I have started to use it during the late doe season to help me fill as many tags as I can... my family relies on venison and I have other families that I donate the meat to as well. They kind of expect it. My time is very limited and I need to kill as many as I can (We don't seem to have a quantity problem... just a mature buck problem). That doesn't justify using bait, but corn piles are easier, no doubt. It doesn't guarantee success... I think a mature old buck would be pretty hard to kill over a bait pile, but I know guys do it.

I do wish they would outlaw it.... people hunting hedgerows/property lines with a pile of corn really irritate me. I've been bordered by outfitters for several years and I know they are dumping the piles by the bucket loads next to treestands... hard to compete with that kind of behavior. I've also had corn poured literally 3 feet from the property line on a property that doesn't have a tree on it. But a guy is paying taxes on his land so who am I to say he can't do what he wants on his property??... just think there's something wrong with it. I wouldn't do that to a neighbor.

I will hopefully be hunting in Europe this year... I'll let you all know the competency level of those hunters. I'm sure we will be using hounds since it's tradition, so I'm sure some running shots will happen... hoping I can take my bow along, but from the sounds of it my chances with a bow will be slim with the hounds chasing and this will more than likely be the only time I get to do something like this so I'll probably end up taking a rifle.

Writer- I have seen fewer pheasants this year than most. I have hunted Butler, Saline, Edwards, Pratt, Ellsworth, Harvey, and Sedgwick Counties and really haven't seen enough to justify it. It is nothing close to what I hunt in SD or even Liberal in 2008 when I shot my limit in 4 shots off a standing milo corner. I would bet my next paycheck if you had to give up your permissions of prime birding land and hunt the public and WIHA that I do, your articles would not report a fraction of the numbers. That being said, I do find a covey of quail everytime I go out and have discovered my Flint Hills chickens have gained a few more birds.

BTW. Shane smiles constantly when he is watching his dog work birds.

Here in CO a high-ranking CDOW official once told me (not knowing I was a bowhunter) that if it wasn't for the "damned CBA" they could cut our archery season way back, combine us with Muzzleloaders, and be done with us.

You don't have time to get involved. Understand. Life is about priorities. Almost all the volunteers in key organizations have jobs, careers, families, etc.. Why don't you organize a coalition of all the different groups with chapters in your state to do what you suggest? In CO we had the United Sportsmen's Council which has now grown into a different mix of stakeholders. You can do this from home through the magic of the internet and conference calls.

I'm on three boards and know what it takes. But I do it because I care enough to try to make a difference.

If you haven't seen more Pheasant and Quail this year than the last 5 you are in a bunker. They've exploded, and I hunt a couple county's too.

As far as the sustenance pile's...It ain't huntin...everyone here knows and agree's, in their "mind's eye"...yet it's easily substantiated by the lack of ethical "lawmen". You go through this thing one time...choose your path.

I hate the thoughts that run through my head... screwed up world we live in.

I won't, but could kill every deer the rest of my life over a failure pile. Would that negate the success i have had without it to date?

They are deer, put there for us to kill and eat. How a person accomplishes that shouldn't matter if done legally.

For the record, the buck I killed on the 31st was on the ground in a bedding area no where near a corn pile. It wouldn't have been except I was careless when hunting the failure pile several days prior and failed to execute. But that really doesn't matter because I admit that I hunted bait and therefore am less of a hunter now:)

Matt

No, that isn't the #1 reason. You wanted another avenue that might afford you more sightings and/or success.. It's okay to say it. ;)

See you next month... :)

That does not mean it is the best in 25-30 years - As for a soap box - call it what you may but there are plenty of discussions even in this thread of individuals at the state level making/voting for policy which affects all of us and it seems the policy is certainly slanted a certain way - those folks should be called out. I'm not a great linguist so I have no reason starting a blog to write about such things but I or others I'm sure would help on the social media side to get the word out if Writer does not want to take up the cause. He does have a great sounding piece and he is certainly a more talented wordsmith than most.

Matte - you deserve an award for being the most giving hunter. :) I'll be sure to have a participation trophy made and present it to you should we ever meet. As for mentioning areas - I have repeated myself numerous times - he was fairly specific on location and if you have a WIHA map you'll see that this area now has virtually no WIHA left. Lots has been lost in the past 2 years even. Maybe not a direct result, maybe it's due to deer, maybe the land owners were pissed off at WIHA traffic, I dont know. There could be a correlation. Hot spotting in the internet/social media age can be a problem and technology certainly makes it 10000x easier.

Some of the residents, myself included do not see the wisdom in allowing virtually unlimited tags, much less a free for all in the area you can hunt (Residents have more freedom than NR's and I am in the camp residents need more restrictions along with everyone else) Those of us who have lived here and experienced KS for years have seen the quality go downhill, along with the ease of access. To reiterate as some others have made a point, that as the access has gone away, you simply have to try harder which I guess is fine, but it sure does make the barrier to entry so much greater to newbies wanting to take up the sport of hunting much less non residents coming here with no connections.

As far as the state and its liberal tags... I can't comment because I haven't hunted Kansas for deer since early 2000s. No dog in that fight.

Norman... great points!

I have said all along that I would rather see each weapon maintain their own season like it historically was with a ML Season, Archery, and Firearms. That said, I would be strongly opposed to more regulation on residents like you suggest KSHusker in regards to limiting where I can hunt. For the simple reason that no matter how much restriction is present you can only shoot one buck. For a year or two residents did have to pick units, even archery hunters. For most it probably didn't matter because they only hunt one or two counties and I would contend it is still that way. What it did do is prevent people like me that live in the west, grew up in central KS and have family in East Central from hunting with my family and friends. Call me greedy if you want, but it is important to me to have the option to hunt across this state.

The big issue to me that goes along with your thoughts on lack of management is that we don't have a specific check system to know what is being killed and where. I realize the surveys provide data that has allowed KDWPT to extrapolate the data giving an idea of harvest numbers and location, but I am not confident in the numbers. Allowing NR to pick an adjacent unit is a problem to me as well because you could have way more people hunting a specific unit than anticipated due to the adjacent unit policy. I think this happens more in the west. I.E. applying for unit 1 with 2 adjacent and always hunting unit 2. I have brought these concerns up to KDWPT in the past but they are confident in their data. Maybe things will change in the future.

As has been said above....Voice your concerns to the biologist, commissioners, and ultimately your legislators. A group that spoke for all sportsman would be awesome, but unrealistic imo because each group has different priorities. Your ideas of more restrictions to improve the resource are commendable, but I have found very few hunters agree with those sentiments unfortunately.

Matt

The ability to hunt statewide and in multiple units as Matt pointed out concentrates people. I remember a # of articles about the Pratt Sandhills and their massive deer. There are still a # of them there as I've seen them bird hunting, but the herd of mulies per my knowledge is gone - I've got no idea where they went, but there was a very decent sized herd and per what I've seen they have vanished. All through HS and into college a good friend of mine at the time (his dad) was part of a group of 6 guys that had the most amazing deal I've ever seen - a hunting lease/gentlemens agreement complete with cabin on 4700 acres that was was fairly landlocked and bordered a large chunk of the Pratt Sandhills - I bird hunted with them every chance I could get as i loved the sport and they in part gave me a love for Setters I have today. Anyways we'd see the mulies quite often, their group had shot a few from time to time.

I have my own hypothesis on where they went but it may stir the pot a bit. That being said with the articles, folks have a tendency to hot spot - so it's not hard when people are not relegated to an area and to end up with large concentrations of folks putting their time and energy into one particular spot. I've seen this in more recent years with bird hunting.

I live here as I've stated - I shouldnt have the freedoms we have presently in regards to deer here - we keep it up the quality will keep degrading. There needs to be more emphasis on management and less on having a free for all to try and make everyone happy. The hammer fell about 1996, our favorite former governor and his cronies spearheaded the roller coaster ride we've been on since then.

I sound like an old man at 36 nearly 37, but damn I do not like the changes to the detriment of what I'd love for my son to enjoy.

You just don't up and change your philosophy on something when you have the best thing going in the country. It would be like Bill Belicheck doing a 180 and start running the read option with Tom Brady. Totally ignorant. Yet this is the philosophy that has been taken by the state of Kansas. Totally Ignorant. They sacrificed their knowledge and intelligence and gave in to special interest and money. No dignity left!

The hammer fell before 1996. 1996 broke the camels back but it started a few years earlier with game tags and especially when they opened up the season in September for the damn muzzle loaders. They are a gun and should have stayed in the rifle season, not a special season in Sept.

Husker I really liked reading your response especially about your dad hunting back in the day. It wasn't that long ago that Kansas had a 3 month long season and residents had to draw a tag for the gun season. Some residents simply did not draw a tag. Now everyone claims entitlement and wants their own season. It's frustrating hearing posts from both residents and non residents who simply just don't have the experience that some have on here. In order to manage for the future, you better know where you have been, where you are, and where you are going!

Don't tell me the volunteer surveys qualify as an accurate approach to determining herd size or harvest numbers.

Unfortunately, they were unable to stay ahead of the population explosion and what we saw in the future years was the result. Multiple antlerless tags, up to 6 maybe 7 at one point, and basically OTC tags for Non residents, and less restrictions for residents. One thing that has remained is only being able to tag one buck. There were even a few years where you could get a leftover tag and shoot more than one buck in the late 90s.

The last two years are the first time I have actually heard farmers out here asking 'where are the deer' and show content on the population being acceptable and perhaps too low. Hopefully KDWPT takes note that sportsmen and farmers alike are seeing fewer deer and management adjustments are made.

I agree on the check system, I think we all do, but if you have listened to Lloyd speak anytime in the last 15 to 20 years he can show you numbers to support the current reporting system. Lloyd could show you so many numbers to support his findings by the end of trying to argue with him you just throw your hands up and agree:)

Ultimately, I agree with you guys on wanting more management of the deer herd, but hunters are the minority of the general population. When the legislators are getting pressured by constituents about crop damage, vehicle accidents, etc. hunters take a back seat. As the deer herd starts to thin hopefully more people will shift and push for more management.

I do have a question for everyone....what is your management plan or what do you think the state should do and what should they manage for? What is important to you?

Matt

Non Resident*Draw every 3 years and significantly cut back the numbers available. All Tags whitetail only. Raise price to $500 per tag.

*Last 10 days of Sept for Youth and disability season.

*Mandatory online check in system for all tags purchased. You don't report, you don't get a tag the next season. At the end of the season every hunter must report on line. Then we can account for every tag. Some won't be honest but it will be much more accurate than we have now. *All Outfitters $2500 outfitter license. One Transferable Tag per outfitter that outfitter can sell to highest bidder. *All big game hunters must pass a Bowhunter Education course *Baiting illegal *No party hunting *And I would charge a park pass for any hunter using public lands that is to be displayed on the windshield. SEK is a mess in the minded land wildlife area's. Nothing but trash dumping and parties.

Where I hunt there were more deer in the 90s than in the 80s. The population has perhaps gone down a little in the last few years but not by much. The main difference I see is the absence of mature bucks. I don't get them on camera or see them in the flesh. I haven't killed a buck since 2010. I will admit I missed two since then. This year I only saw one buck that I would have shot without hesitation. I don't have an explanation for the lack of mature bucks. I don't think they are being shot out.

Sito look at the evolution we have seen in the last 25 years. How can the future look bright?

I like some of the ideas that are being proposed except for the increase to the cost of a hunting license, especially when it comes to youth. If you are a parent and trying to buy hunting licenses and tags for 2 or 3 kids it can add up in a hurry. I would like to see the statewide any season tag go away and limited drawing for NR tags. I do hope they are making plans to make some changes to the Mule Deer tags in order to slow the declining population. We need to get back to actually managing the resource but I feel that as long as we allow our legislators to set regulations for KDWP&T then their hands are tied.

Deer numbers are slightly down in my area and I'm excited about that.EHD rewards the areas that let deer walk and curses the area that targets 2 1/2-3 1/2 yo

I do think it would have to be significantly more than one or two does killed though to "earn" a 2nd buck tag. I'd bump it up to 4 or 5 depending on the buck to doe ratio in that area.... heck make it 8 or 10 and I bet some guys would be able to accomplish it.

Mandatory check stations would surely be required though and I WOULD BE ALL FOR IT!