A mechanical broadhead (MBH) is like any tool; used properly they can be very effective, used improperly you're courting disaster.
Like any product group the buyer has to learn the products; to quote a favorite movie title you have "the good, the bad and the ugly." Cheap knock-offs have accounted for a high number of the horror stories you hear about MBH use.
An often overlooked factor in bad outcomes with MBH use is the bow hunter; lack of proficiency (not enough practice), using a bow that isn't as highly tuned as possible, taking bad shots (steep quartering angles were a recipe for disaster with the older designs that "scissored" open) are as common as cause, if not more common that poor design in my experience.
Every good hunter I've ever known also never assumes a broadhead (any kind) is sharp enough out of the box. One great "tool" to check broadhead sharpness can be as simple as cutting a 2-3" square in a piece of cardboard and then stretching a few dozen rubber bands across the opening. Slowly drag your broadhead over the rubber bands and if the blades are as sharp as they should be the rubber bands should be cut very quickly and cleanly.
Accept the fact that like any human endeavor you can't control everything but do control all the variables (bow tune, shooting proficiency, high quality SHARP broadheads) you can and your positive outcomes will vastly outnumber the negative ones.
Go with your gut. I had a bad experience with a mech head years ago... My friend shot the deer 2 years later and I have the head on my bookshelf as a "trophy" - he got it out when butchering.
I went on a Mech's stink bender for a few years, and gradually returned. I've been very happily shooting rages - originals, and more recently the extremes. They have been nothing but awesome for me. Mikes points regarding knowing your tools really hits home. If you know the limitation or maybe better said, the way a head works, you can keep it working well. For me, that's resulted in lots of really big holes and pass through's with Rages.
But, there are MANY good heads. Actually, today, there are many GREAT heads. We all have our own bias and like to use what we like to use.
Tricks are awesome for example, just a GREAT fixed blade head.
If you want to go mech, the ones you got may be awesome - they look like they would be, but I've not used them or played with them so cant really offer to much on em...
That said, some Mech's just historically have had GREAT reviews. NAP's Killzones and spitfires, Wasp Jackhammers, Grimreapers Whitetail special feel to my like they have always gotten great reviews. Likewise, if you can find em, Rocky Mountain Snypers and Red Head Gators. Rage's are like walking into a chevy convention and screaming FORD FORD FORD at the top of your lungs :) It's either people love em or hate em...
Try the ones you got out. put cardboard on a target and shoot it a few times. See how it opens and how it looks.
Will
I've had similar experiences in the past; in my opinion it comes down to quality, in particular the quality of the steel used for the blades.
shawnm's Link
1. With regard to re-sharpening and the re-using a broadhead and not being aware if the blade (or the screw shaft) is bent (unable to perceive with the naked eye). There is a technique called "spin testing" and I use it for checking arrows with and without a broadhead attached. It might surprise some to know that even carbon arrows can "fatigue" over time and use and will wobble when spun. (Of course this can be due to an imbalance related to the insert).
Obviously one would detect wobble due to a bent blade on a broadhead fairly easily using this test and would then discard the broadhead.
2. With regard to duplicating "factory sharpness"; again, it might surprise some how many blades out of the box might be sharp, but not as sharp as is optimal. Some of the newer sharpeners have come a long way but nothing beats a good set of stones and you can definitely improve on the edge you have out of the box.
Over time I've found it's rarely a good idea to make broad, sweeping generalizations about much of anything. When it's a human endeavor and you don't know the people involved it's an even worse starting point for a productive conversation.
I thought about a good-natured jab along the lines of "at least Silverado and I weren't asked if we'd stopped beating our wives yet" but figured it was an honest mistake with no offense intended and given that I've walked in those shoes in younger days, just let it go.
I do agree without reservation that every hunter should only go afield with equipment they have complete confidence in. For each hunter he or she is the only "best" judge of that reality.
We've got a guy on Leatherwall by the name of Larry Hatfield who has done most of his hunting with the same bunch of Ace 2-blades that he started with, and that man - well, actually, he's far too kind - but if it were within his temperament, he would laugh his TAIL off, following this thread with its talk of $10 broadheads not being trustworthy as "re-usable".
Those Ace heads are now all the way up to $5 a pop, by the way. I'm not sure what his heads cost him.... seeing as he bought them in the mid 1950s... With the Aces, he says, sometimes the tips get bent. So he'll beat them flat again on a rock out in the field and then peen them good and flat with a hammer & anvil when he gets home... if needs be.
And I expect most of those heads have been re-shaped and re-sharpened a time or two by now, considering he's killed over 300 black bears and he gets at least one deer, one Elk, and a bear every year to this day. At 85. Most years I think he gets two Elk.
Point being, I guess.....
You can obsess over your equipment if it pleases you. Buy the Latest and Greatest and Best of everything that's out there, if it makes you feel better about yourself. Free enterprise in a free country, so as long as your dependents are all getting their needs met, Go To Town.
But EOD, all that matters is putting a sharp blade through two lungs. If you want a blood trail to follow, then (as a rule) you need to put the blade through the far side of the animal as well, so the critical piece is getting that exit wound, for which you need penetration, which mechanicals do not favor. Nor do flyweight arrows, for that matter, but some people can't imagine hunting with anything under 300 fps, so I guess you gotta do whatcha gotta do.
I think Larry killed most of his bears with a #35 kid's bow, just because that's what he had on hand at the time; I doubt those arrows would crack 150 fps going down-wind in a tornado, but whatever.....
I've killed 1 or 2 with Hypo's. I went back to extremes because I like the slightly less steep blade angle when open and slightly bigger hole. One Hypo I shot into a 180~# buck, was a very steep shot. It went in high right lung, and stuck in the sternum on the off side, the head was pushing skin out on the bottom but didnt break it and the head's tip was slightly bent, curled more so. I should look and see if I can find it to post a pic for you to see. Point blank, I've had fixed blades look worse on that kind of shot, and the deer was down in sight, so... it was not the "curl" that caused me to change. Again, I just liked the slightly bigger hole with extremes and less steep blade angle.
While expensive, I'm not a guy who shoots a lot of deer any year. 2 is a big year, 1 is average. So, I view any mech head as one and done. My choice, and I'm willing to "eat" the investment. I did shoot about 4 deer with the same slick trick mag. Resharpened the blades a few times, then put in a new set. Had to file the tip once when the head went through a deer and into the ground (it did that every time actually) and hit a rock under ground v just leaf litter etc. Tricks are frigging awesome heads!
Now that, was an bad broadhead :)! Without it I suspect we wouldnt have the quality of heads we can choose today if we opt mechanical, but, man... OOPH is all I can say about that one :)!
Sorry to highjack Shawn - any time quality of heads conversations are crossed with history Pucketts jump to my mind...
I will say that most mech heads will perform as good as or better than fixed heads on any shot that is too far back (which seems to happen a lot for reasons I don't want to get into right now). They have a large cutting diameter and will make a big hole to make following a blood or intestinal fluid trail easier. A fixed head can leave a really crap blood trail on far back hits, so if your trailing skills are not all that refined, you may lose that deer, but it is just as dead.
Mech heads can also mask tuning issues when they all "shoot like field heads". Sounds nice for making things easy but can make the difference between meat in the freezer or feeding the coyotes. A fixed head will let you know your bow is out of tune. That can make a big difference when it comes to penetration. Seems many of the high tec things designed to make everything easy these days have a greater degree for the potential of complete failure than things that have always worked but require a little more effort. KISS rule!!
That's the irony, IMO.... Seems to me that the guys who are most likely to use mechs are the same guys who practice on 3D targets and train themselves to hold pretty tight to - if not actually INTO - the shoulder... where they are far more likely to hit bone. Especially if they'e shooting from a treestand, where the shoulder blade provides more coverage of the top of the heart...
Guys who are more old-school might be more apt to split the difference between the rear edge of the shoulder and the last or second-to-last rib.
But what gets overlooked is that the same wide cut that clips extra blood vessels - sometimes even a big one - also clips extra bones. Sometimes even a big one. A guy might even argue that this means that they are just as likely to cause you a problem when hitting a Hard part of the animal - due to poor penetration or a structural failure - just about as often as they might pull your fat out of the fire when you hit them where they're soft & squishy.
So it's a wash. Unless you typically aim at the hard parts anyway. Then you can lose more than you win....
Interesting psychology, though... Would you rather find yourself saying...
"Gee, I never would've lost/recovered that animal if not for the head I used"
or
"I made a good/bad shot; the equipment did exactly what it was supposed to, so the outcome is On Me."
And I agree with Adam that using a point that merely disguises the fact that your arrow is not flying right is just asking for penetration problems. I've only tuned a compound once, but it was not at all difficult to make small adjustments and walk it back until I had to be sure to shoot the broadhead first so I didn't trash all my fletchings.
As far as the head not performing or failing, give me a break. Even if you shot a field point through the boiler they will die. I always cringe when I hear someone say they had a MBH bounce off a deer. I am advocating that you use junk or not doing your best to be your best physically, mentally and equipment, but lets not over think this. Just make the shot!!
In a perfect world all the deer would stand perfectly still and wait for the arrow to hit. In reality an alert deer can drop as much as 8 to 10 inches before the arrow gets there at 20 yards. Even relaxed deer will often react to the shot and significantly move before the arrow gets there. Bow speed is highly overrated IMO, I bought into speed over penetration to reduce compensating for arrow drop and reduce the time for deer drop when I was younger and learned that reading body language is a much more important factor when taking a shot at a live animal. It's not as simple as aim and shoot. Its important to take into consideration all the factors involved when taking the life of any animal to ensure the most effective and efficient means of doing so. Its important to have the right equipment that will get the job done if things don't go as they should, which happens far more than most of us are willing to admit.
People who shoot at 3d targets are learning to aim too far back IMO, so expandables should work fine for them. The depiction of anatomy on most targets is not accurate. In reality on a perfectly broadside deer if you hit the second to last rib, you are in the guts. If you want to hit the boiler room you are aiming below the scapula. The attached anatomy pic is one of an actual deer that was dissected down to its vitals and it is the most accurate pic I've seen for vitals. Look where the heart and lungs lie in relation to the scapula. It its a eye opening reality that conflicts with most foam target depictions.
A majority of the deer I've killed with a bow early on were liver hits. I was always aiming about an inch behind the "crease" to avoid hitting the shoulder. I hit a few in the shoulder early in my career and spent sleepless nights because of it and lost them. I became scared of the shoulder and started aiming a little behind it resulting in liver shots and long blood trails. I then went from a fast, light arrow with mech heads to heavier arrows with fixed coc's. The shoulder became a non issue, I aim for the heart and my results have greatly improved. Short bloodtrails and no excuses. I have always limited my shots to under 30 yards, most are 15 or less. The attached pic is from a doe that was 20 yards relaxed while feeding, and she still dropped 4 or 5 inches before the arrow got there. The scapula is a non-issue with the right broadhead.
Im not trying to argue, Im a very analytical person and I'm just trying to get some helpful information out there based on my experiences. Take it or leave it. This is only my opinion, these are my reasons for using the equipment that I use, and my results. Anyone can do whatever they chose for whatever reason they want but I have learned some really hard lessons and I don't want others to learn them the hard way if they don't have to.
Would a fixed blade head do any better? Probably not on that shot. I do know that several outfitters out west do not allow you to use MBH for elk due to the lack of penetration when hitting a bone.
My wife shoots fairly heavy arrows with a good COC head (stingers). She killed her first buck with a spine shot (clearly not intentional). Got about 5" of penetration only. I've had that happen over the years with fixed and mechanical heads. In both cases, shooting a hair over 90ft/lbs of energy, I only got about 5-6" of penetration (again, with fixed and BIG mech heads).
All that said, I think the the key issue is this: If you choose to use large dia mechs, shoot a ton of energy. I do, and that's why I'm confident with the 2.3" heads I use now. The doe I shot last year was quartering away fairly steeply - a shot Pat would have loved based on his blood trail games comments. I was confident, with the distance and had the arrow enter 3/4 of the way back and high, exit literally just in front of the off side shoulder, low on the body. Arrow stuck a foot in the ground. That's with a 2.3" mech head. That's not "proof" that big mech's are for everyone... Just an example that if you use equipment as a system, and understand the equipments role in the system they can work great.
Even then, you get a situation that's tough to figure - like my example several posts ago about the curled tip on a hypo when it stuck in the sternum area, or when folks shooting fixed blades (or mech) hit a shoulder knuckle or spine, get insert deep penetration only and wonder what happened.
Just have to choose the head that broadly fits your system and approach well while giving you confidence. There are so many awesome fixed and mech heads today, it's hard to go wrong so long as they fit your system.
And that would be true because.....????? What? Archery equipment has been around for at least 9,000 years... arrows may date back over 70 THOUSAND, and you're saying that none of it worked properly until 20 years ago?
To Longbeard's point; put a sharp blade into two lungs, and you've got a dead deer out there just waiting for you to go pick it up. And #35 is plenty to go clean through a deer, whether you clip a few ribs or not, so long as you don't use a stupid-light arrow.... or one that won't fly straight. If you need blood on the ground to find the animal, then a second hole is a big bonus, so you go with a head that presents relatively low resistance to penetration and you just need to be able to hit a target the size of a volleyball.
Which is not hard... unless you are shooting beyond your ability or you are shooting at an animal that is likely to blow up at the sound of the shot. So you want a calm animal and a quiet bow, and you don't go shooting at an animal that's too close in the first place. It's bad enough dealing with a steep shot angle (as from up a tree), but you cut loose with a loud bow at close range and just about any deer is going to turn inside out... at which all bets are off and a head that will break or bounce off of hard bone isn't going to help you any.....
Adam - that's a good pic, but you have to realize that it gives a false impression of the size of the lungs in a live animal. A dead deer like that, the diaphragm is completely relaxed, and because the deer was on its side when they took the pic, the guts and liver were intruding on the chest cavity to the greatest extent possible, and actually MORE THAN would ever occur in an animal that was on its feet, because gravity would have the liver (and all that lies behind it) sagging down & towards the rear. So what you're seeing there is the bare minimum volume in terms of lung volume.
Humans are about the same size as deer, and that minimum volume in a person (as if you had pressed out all the air that you can) is about 1.2 - 1.5 liters, but we normally maintain lung volume of about twice that, moving maybe 1/2 liter with each breath.
Nothing wrong with holding into that triangle created by the scap, the humerus, and the line that runs from the rear corner of the scap to the elbow - so long as you use a good, solid head - but you have more room to the rear than you may think....
Personally, I try not to get too deep into the corner there because the target is a lot taller as you go aft , and I try not to shoot up any more meat than I have to.... The other problem I have seen when you hit through the meaty part of both shoulders is that all that muscle creates a lot of resistance to the arrow and to the passage of any blood through the wound channel, even if you do get an exit....
spike78's Link
spike78's Link
That guy is amazing that you guys describe. Even if he only "really" shot half what he has listed (I dont believe that, just for argument sake) it would be an impressive career of hunting. Not sure whey arrow velocity is an issue. How fast was a native american's long bow? 100-120fps maybe? More recently, how about Fred Bear's bow? I mean, if that story of him arching an arrow up and over a rock to kill a bear is true, it almost seems like gravity had to pull the arrow down to earth faster than the bow shot them :)!
Will's Link
notme's Link
https://youtu.be/z_oB6yOmKqg
longbeard - alright, so I'm not the only senior on the sight, cool.
That said, crazy to think how far things have come in a short time frame. From Party Lines to cell and sat phones... Crazy!
When Larry Hatfield was a little kid, he might even have used smoke! He said his dad used to drop him off for a week at a time with his little brother to mind the herd.. when was about 7, maybe? Might've been younger. Talk about your free range kid!!!