Contributors to this thread:
I was at a Whitetails Unlimited banquet last night and one of the Raffles was for a new compound bow.
The table next to me burst into laughter after one of them asked the question "who still shoots a compound bow?" The gentleman went onto say It's all crossbows now.
I just shook my head and and said WTF to myself.
I love everything about bowhunting. The serenity, the solitude and especially the challenge of getting close and being able to draw undetected.
Is this the new normal? Are we a dying breed?
I think we're a stagnating breed and we will become more specialized.
I'm getting a friend into archery. He's really enjoying it and learning quickly. We wen tot shoot at a local shop and the first thing that caught his eye were the xguns. My heart sank. I didn't say anything to him about it. To each his own. But I did make a conscience effort to explain why I enjoy the challenge trying to be an archer brings and how it benefits me in other aspects of life.
I hope that sticks in the back of his head.
Woody....there's nothing wrong with black top walkers.....
"I love everything about bowhunting. The serenity, the solitude and especially the challenge of getting close and being able to draw undetected."
I don't think anyone is planning on taking that away from you, much like how no one took away recurves/longbows from the traditional guys when compounds reared their ugly head.
I often wonder if some of you guys would feel better if every deer hunter out there that was using a crossbow left it on their lap when a deer came in close and then went through the motions of pulling back a compound, then if undetected (because apparently pulling back a compound is super hard) picked up their crossbow and shot the deer. Would life be more fair to you if that was the norm?
Three years ago my shoulders went to hell in a hand basket. The following year a friend let me use his x-bow. I shot a doe. These are my opinions only, no challenge what-so-ever, a weapon out the box ready to use, no practicing involved per-se. I might as well hunted with a rifle. I miss archery hunting, but in my eyes x-bows are not archery equipment as I know it. I still spend time in the forest still sit in a stand without a weapon just enjoying nature and being out there. Been working on rehabbing my shoulders and can draw my bow now. Hopefully I'll be looking for the CHALLENGE of bowhunting this fall again. Like I said just my opinion and not looking to be bashed for what I feel.
If there comes a day I can't pull my bow I will not hesitate to get a xbow. But I'll use a virtical bow till then.
I blame 'The Walking Dead' for making crossbows look cool!
Brew, what about baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire? Do you see that catching on?
Drop Tine,
People parading the woods with Lucille look a likes and they're thirsty!!!
"unless you try to pass yourself off as a bowhunter when you are not one." Very well said. I tried to enter a golf tournament with the pictured equipment. Was informed that this is NOT golf. But it hits a golf BALL with a golf club. A little extreme, but anyone that thinks that crossbowers have the same skill set as a bowhunters would use Iron Byron as well...If you are a crossbower please do not call it bowhunting. Just my $.02-LC
Lame, you need to put a scope on that thing!
I had a talk with my son in law last night. He doesn't see the ability to get out into the woods with a crossbow as a challenge and was wondering if I would have the time to tech him how to shoot a bow. I told him that if he wants to shoot a bow I would teach him under one condition. That I also teach my grandson to shoot a bow. He is in his mid 20's and is looking forward to the challenge.
I don't see an issue with crossbows, if you are not able to shoot a bow. There are a lot of lazy people out there that love the crossbow law. Not me....
Lame X2
lame - If you are a crossbower please do not call it bowhunting - Exactly! The one and only time I used a crossbow I didn't think of myself as a bowhunter that day, even though I've been a bowhunter for 50+ years. I don't bash anyone for using them, to each their own and if it keeps them hunting for something they love to do I'm happy for them. I do get angry with some that don't know the limitations of the crossbow though.
I shoot a bow. My kids shoot bows. My friends shoot bows, with one exception. He switched to a crossbow several years ago after his arm was shattered and almost ripped off.
If my arm gets shattered and almost ripped off or something, I'll pick up a crossbow.
Otherwise, I'll shoot what I'm shooting, my kids will shoot what they're shooting and my friends will shoot what they're shooting. That won't change because of the opinion of some guy at a banquet, the opinion of some guy on the Leatherwall, the opinion of some guy on Longrangerifle.com, the opinion of PETA, or HSUS, or...
I'm doomed. But that has much more to do with being married than what some guy says at a banquet, probably after a few pops.
I hope for the best. I will never hunt with a crossbow.
The only ones doomed are the ones choosing (not forced) to shoot the cross gun. They are the ones missing out...
"The only ones doomed are the ones choosing (not forced) to shoot the cross gun. They are the ones missing out..."
I would agree with that x1000
Btw I have no issue with anyone who has an actual physical handicap from using a crossbow.
the group I'm referencing all looked healthy and capable of pulling back a bow, but who knows.
Funny how once crossbows became legal for all, how many guys got "bad" shoulders. I go in next week for yet another procedure on my neck. My doctors have begged me to go to a crossbow. I will shoot my real bows until the pain keeps me from being proficient. Seems that pain limit is a lot less for many. I see some of these guys that switched due to "bad" shoulders playing golf 3 or more times a week. How does that work with bad shoulders? I'm sure they are the same types that would use the contraption lame posted if allowed to golf. People no longer have any pride in working hard to do something. They want easy, yet they want to brag how tough it was.
Hunter r, yes, it would make me feel better if you went through the motion of drawing a real bow before you lifted the crossgun to kill your intended quarry.
Tweed, you are doing it right bro, very inspiring. I'll get there this year as I'm definitely going the trad route. Work is just getting in the way of that dream right now.
Lame, do you think that machine would fix my slice??? I need some help big time in that area. My opponent and I doubled our betting stakes this year and if he'd let me use that I may have a chance at making a profit.
Kevin , that is the reason I quit as a member of my WTU chapter, and the whole organization. I was a banquet committee member for 20 years, all volunteer. Once they began to advocate the crossgun, I retired my membership.
Bowhunter numbers are in a decline and that will also affect bowhunter clubs and organizations. Crossbow hunter numbers are on a rapid increase, a shift in dynamics for certain.
"Hunter r, yes, it would make me feel better if you went through the motion of drawing a real bow before you lifted the crossgun to kill your intended quarry. "
Crusader dad I don't deer hunt with a crossbow. I deer hunt during archery/crossbow deer season with a compound bow, one that I have to pull back when I want to shoot a deer with it. Sometimes if I really want a challenge when I see a deer I pull it back but instead of shooting I let it down then pull it back again a second time then take the shot. Talk about extra fun and extra fulfilling. In fact the more I think about it I wonder if other "real bowhunters" challenge themselves with multiple draws or maybe most guys take the easy way and only pull their bow back once on a deer.
Hoyt , Mathews , PSE, Bow Tech , all the rest , and the bow or archery shop ,, all doomed there is no way they will stay in business, and they deserve what they are going to get . The cross bower shoots very little , doesn't have to . No connection or passion towards the actual weapon . Its a stain a big time stain . The companies will sell some but not enough . Its all for nothing, no gain , no advantage. It has to be the most useless thing ever . Please one more story about " I hurt my shoulder and I couldn't pull my bow " makes me want to vomit , very week and lame .
Can anyone translate what hunterr said?
Capt, Hunter was mocking Crusader regarding drawing a bow before shooting.
Tweed, I know, I was just mocking hunter for that stupid response.
I guess my opinion is I don't care what others choose to hunt with. If someone uses an xbow and calls themselves a bow hunter i really don't care. I try to just worry about what I am doing and not let others bother me. It can be difficult at times I will admit. I just find life to be more enjoyable when I am living my life and not worrying about small things such as someone calling themselves bowhunters or what they use when hunting. I will continue to use a compound bow because I enjoy practicing just as much as hunting. I don't use a compound bow to impress others or to fit into the ''bowhunter'' group I just enjoy shooting it. If someone enjoys hunting with a xbow I am perfectly fine with that. I have family and friends who never bow hunted before but started with xbow because they loved hunting and I enjoy spending time with them in the woods because for me it's about memories created not what weapon you choose to use.
"Lame, do you think that machine would fix my slice??? I need some help big time in that area. My opponent and I doubled our betting stakes this year and if he'd let me use that I may have a chance at making a profit."-Sure would. All you have to to is put the appropriate CLUB in the machine, cock the thing and fire the BALL at the target. This would make you a golfer ??? I prefer to call myself a tennis player in that I use a ball and a hitting implement. This thing is a sport and I'm pretty sure that no one will go hungry because of not developing a skill set.
+1 Willert88 excellent post.
Willert, I am concerned with them. Season frameworks historically were set by considering the overall held th of the species. That not only includes overall numbers but also age and sex structure. That is why more efficient weapons such as firearms were given shorter seasons and more primitive weapons longer seasons. Allowing a more efficient weapon to be used over an extended period might prove to be detrimental to the species. No, to date that has not happened but where is the harm in reacting proactively as opposed to reactively? Operating from a reactive position is always tougher to do than from a proactive position. Sometimes issues need to be looked at in the long term as compared to the short term interests of a small but lazy/greedy group.
And, as others have stated, when you think beyond deer many species are already on a limited drawing or quota system. More efficient weapons such as crossbows will mean harvest objectives will be met quicker and easier, thus causing shorter seasons and potential loss of hunting opportunity for real bowhunters.
Yes, bowhunting is doomed. Not to extinction, but to irrelevancy.
I still get that rewarding feeling even when shooting a big doe with my compound. I know for a fact I would not have that feeling looking through a scope and pulling the trigger. My brother switched to a cross gun. The majority will make the switch, why, it's easier.
Lets see , weapon use doesn't matter, reason being for those who follow that line of thought more folks hunting and more time to hunt .But over time the end result with increased kills will probably be shortened seasons and less time to hunt,hmmmm. Effective easier equipment use usually leads to shortened seasons period.
"Hunter was mocking Crusader regarding drawing a bow before shooting."
Actually Tweed the intent of my post wasn't to mock crusader dad at all ,assuming the definition of mocking is "making fun of someone in a cruel way." My point was it isn't that difficult to pull back a bow in a hunting situation, and different people choose to challenge themselves in different ways and to different degrees. No reason to get all over-sensitive about the post I made. ;-)
We all use things in our lives to make things easier. I think it's time to get over it and move on. Using a quote from a movie. "They're here"
Drop Tine I agree, but then we should also be willing to accept shorter seasons, combined seasons, point restrictions, and more " limited draw", quota type hunting, etc. I am good with that, but my guess is many other hunters are not.
It's a lot harder to pull back a bow unnoticed than it is to raise your gun and pull the trigger.
Missouri, the crossbow hunters have their own season. It's separate from bow archery season and can be regulated as a separate season.
The age of bowhunting has come and gone. You basically have two choices. Accept it or move on to something else in life.....
Not so fast Woods, for some folks that may be a shred of truth for some and for others...no way! Remember -everyone here is just a tad different. Some may...some may not!
Crusader - Not all scenarios are the same. In some instances it may be harder to pull that rifle or crossbow and easier to sneak that bow...
The next five years will be interesting, not just in Wisconsin and for deer, but in all states where crossbows are legal. I doubt very seriously we will see crossbows lose any ground when, where legal, they now represent the majority of those hunting with archery equipment. Where crossbows are legal, there is a declining number of bowhunters as defined by the P&Y club. Others on this board have pointed this out, and I agree with them. I do believe the golden days of bowhunting (when defined by equipment type) is over. All we have to do now is watch the decline in numbers of bowhunters and the continued very rapid rise in interest and use of crossbows. Surprising others cannot recognize the trends.
Woods, there should be a better choice of words than dumb. False would be correct but maybe uneducated instead of dumb. I don't know. Don't know either why people with a belief like Retro or Missory would even be on a Site for Bowhunters. Just pondering in my own opinion again.
The one good thing that crossguns did for me was push me into going traditional. Best thing that ever happened.
I have for years now, replaced the word Dumb for "Silly". The point still gets across without causing unnecessary insults. Couldn't imagine calling my wife, kids or friends dumb!
+1 Willert88 great post!!!!
I saw a TV show and the host was using an Xbow. I don't care what a guy uses to hunt deer but what I did not like was this guy was saying he was "Bowhunting"....
I hunt with a recurve and occasionally a compound. I consider a bow you draw and hold Bowhunting.
Terminology is important to me. I won't look down on any hunter. Just don't BS ppl on the terminology. Yes, more skill is required to bowhunt than Xbow. Perhaps more skill required to Xbow than gun???
I tried an Xbow at the WI D&T Expo years ago. First shot I hit the X. My buddy wanted to try. The guy told him to pick another spot but he shot the same X I did. We kinda got kicked out of his booth because my buddy robinhood'd my arrow. That was an angry vendor. So, how hard could an Xbow be? Oh, I thought it was loud and really more gun like than anything. Not really interested in trying again.
Just my 2c.
Bill
Crossbow hunters are not bowhunting, to think otherwise is dumbsilly.
Yes they are still a bit loud but the technology for xbows is in its infancy. There is a lot more to come. The technology for a compound has gone about as far as it can go and it is still human powered. One thing that should be required now that they are here is xbow education so that these guys that are out there now know what they are doing out there. As I have 26 trail cams out during the season I see how many they are wounding by overshooting their weapon even with the extended range they have. Not seeing the brush in their scope is another problem as is walking around with a loaded weapon. I have pics of this as they are trespassing while tracking deer. What do they think? They are going to shoot the deer running away? Sure did screw up my rut hunting. I have pics of one guy doing this smiling ear to ear as he is tracking & trespassing. I guess he was happy that he shot a small 9 point in the neck and it took 5 days to die. Guess they need to learn shot placement also. Once again my personal opinion.
I've been thinking about this thread for a couple days now. I don't think we bowhunters are doomed at all. Sure, the clubs and orginazations are seeing a decline. But if you look at the age of some of us on here, we are plenty young enough to keep our heritage going strong. I have other hobbies besides bowhunting and that's what keeps me from joining an org or club. I assume that's likely for the other young guys on here as well. It doesn't mean that we aren't going to stay with real bowhunting though. Real bowhunters will stick with our sport no matter what technology brings. We, as fathers, will also have enough influence on our children to convince them that bowhunting is the better way, thus ensuring our tradition survives. It may mean less competition in the woods for my future grandkids but it doesn't mean bowhunting is going to die.
Crossbowers are the guys that take the easy way out and if they have a couple unsuccessful seasons they will give up. That's fine with me because a real bowhunter learns that he/she will not kill something every year and learns to accept that and appreciate the high even more. My son is the perfect example of that. He sits on the computer all the time. You-tube is his life. Until fall comes and then it's hunting time. I don't force him and I'm sure he will be a bowhunter his whole life no matter where his life takes him. I can also garuntee he will never be a crossbower even though it's easier. I think/assume that's the way it is for a lot of our children. They just aren't old enough to become regular posters on bowsite yet.
The young guys are what we need in the clubs and orgs. It is hard to represent the sport without numbers. When we are told that we don't represent the majority it is tough to get things done sometimes. Everyone doesn't have time to be active in a club but should be counted on for support. Then if you do get some time to come to a convention or get together & give us your input we can work together. New blood is welcome and needed. If you get all your info from the internet from people that hide behind there keyboard you will be misinformed. Us old guys can't carry you forever. Plus then we get called the good old boys club & other things that are pretty lame. I don't always love what the clubs do but just like family, you don't always love what they do but you still love them.
Albino had some pretty good points that probably everyone who is a bowhunter should consider. The one thing we all should focus on is the preservation of our sport for tomorrow. Without work today to preserve it, we may very well wake up one day to find it gone. No, it is not going to suddenly disappear, but it will be chipped away at, a little bit at a time, until eventually what is little left bears little resemblance to bowhunting as we know it.. I'm thinking it may be a kind of an incremental situation. Maybe, maybe not, who knows? But I believe it is better to be proactive to preserve bowhunting than it is to be reactive to try to resurrect it.
To all the fellows on this forum who are not members of an organized archery group or a state association, why not do some research on-line and see what is available in your area? There are active archery/bowhunting clubs throughout WI. Go on-line, You can find 'em. Read about 'em. You just might learn you'd like to join them. If you are a beginner at archery or bowhunting, joining a club is one of the best ways to learn about the sport. Make the call, you will be welcome! And once you do become a member I'd almost be willing to bet you will not regret it. Good luck to all, hope to see you at a meeting.
See... The problem with clubs is that they require / X amount of work hours. And it's very reasonable to require those hours.
But whether you old guys want to acknowledge it or not... There's not nearly as much time for dad as there used to be to do these things even if they wanted to.
Us young guys really appreciate you guys for supporting these clubs with your time, energy and knowledge.
I know it for one, I can't wait to have enough time to dedicate to these recreational pursuits.
Hats off guys.
Albino makes a great point and casekiska drives it home. Unfortunately, Tweed is right. I don't mind putting in work hours for a club but I don't have the extra time/desire to even go to the meetings at this point in my life. I also, at this juncture in my life, don't have the desire to join a club or organization. I know it sounds bad but I'm just being honest here. If I'm going to leave my house in the evening, it's going to be to go play poker. If I'm going to take time out of my day away from work it's going to be golfing. Sat aft/evenings are reserved for my wife and Sunday's are church/family days. I love learning from you guys on bowsite and would like to meet you guys. However, I'm not at a point in my life where joining an orginazation that requires my time outside of the home is something I'm ready to commit to. I love bowhunting and the traditions it encompasses and I would hate to see it taken away. It sounds very selfish but I'm depending on you "workers/members" to fight the fight for now. If your backs are against the wall you can count on me to be there but until then you can find me chasing white balls around. I truly am sorry if I offend any of you with what I have just said or if I make you feel like I don't deserve to be a member or your ranks.
Absolutely not! No offense taken! There once was a busy time for me also,....a wife,...two daughters,...extra hours at work,...sometimes a part time job,...and parents with health issues. (But I always made sure I had time to bowhunt in the fall. That was important and I squeezed it in.) As far as you deserving to be a member of the ranks,...that is not for anyone of us to decide. There is no one here qualified to judge, except maybe you.
You are bring up another perspective, one that is just as valuable as any other. I will say this, I have enjoyed your posts on this forum, keep 'em coming.
I see it a bit differently than Crusader does. To me it is about priorities. I've been engaged in things that I value and have given much of my time to these things. This was done with little kids at home and a regular job to keep. And, I do enjoy poker also.
Bowhunting will never recover, most new hunters where legal, start with a crossbow. There is no going back, the decline in bowhunting and bowhunter numbers will continue until only a minority are left.
I had no family that hunted. I started hunting with a friend who's a gun hunter. I then progressed into bow hunting with a compound. When I can make time, I'd eventually like to build a self bow. I don't think that's an unusual path. I don't think that bow hunting will "never recover".
I think bow hunting organizations are going to continue to face challenges though. The trend seems to be away from groups and clubs.
I fall into the time handicapped category too. A short week for me is 60-65 hours. I push 70-75 too often. Three kids. Confirmation, orchestra concerts, choir concerts, band concerts, school plays, basketball games, NJHS service projects... Forget chasing a white ball around. Let me just lay on the grass in the sun for an hour. While I think I'd enjoy hanging out with some other bow hunters for a meeting, I think I'd enjoy some extra time to shoot my bow without the burden of watching the clock even more. Poker? I'll go for the homonym!!
I think there are hunters that will continue to progress into bow hunting. I think bow hunters like myself and some others here will become more active in organizations when more discretionary time becomes available. I think herd quality, habitat, access, costs and predators all figure into the equation.
As well as the temperament of those representing the sport and the organizations...
Was at Cabelas north of Milwaukee Sunday to get a new Quantum flipping baitcaster. Wondered over to "archery" area looking at the Glen dell 3D target. There were three guys with salesman holding crossbows in the aisle talking about them and two at the counter getting theirs set up. There was a young lady shooting a compound though... to be honest it was kind of sad to me. Easier wins every time unless you are Dick Preneke fan!
I'll be joining a club this year to get my kids more involved. Shooting a 3d course and shooting from elevated stands adds a little more fun than just shooting in the field behind the house with Dad. I looked into the state group about 10 years ago. At that time there seemed to be a lot of in fighting going on and they were closely associated with characters I would not consider giving money to. Maybe they have gotten better, I'll never know.
Clubs are great. You meet a lot of new people and make some good friends. Just like all walks of life, there are all different kinds of people. After being in several different types of clubs a few things are common. Usually the majority of the work and contributions are done by a few people. Remember, everyone is busy. Most if not all of the time, contributions are made by volunteers. People need to do and give what they can without fear of being judged. All contributions in time and money are appreciated no matter how small. In the end clubs survive because of what anyone contributes. The benefits of being a part of a club may be more about the new relationships than other gains. After all, what would be a better organization / club than one for archery and bowhunting? I can't think of any.
I have belonged to an archery club 17 yrs. WTA and WBH about as long as well. I think you get out of a local club what you are willing to invest.
I have enjoyed my time belonging to my club. Also got a chance by traveling around to other club 3d shoots to meet other like minded good people. Some of these guy I hope will be life long acquaintances. I have seen new members come and go. more drop out than stick. I get the busy schedules but I wish when my kids were young I had archery as a family activity. I have gotten my wife and grandkids into archery and it has been a cherished bonding for all.
Clubs participation is a good way to assure a future for "archery".
Bill
Look at society as a whole, a lot opt for the easy out. Nowadays! Instant gratification. In the end. As they reflect back and look in the mirror they don't know what their missing , The shortened season is. Coming just a matter of time! Still deadly. Out to fifty 3 inside of a fifty cent piece. With my Mathews !!Bring it on You crossbow. Users!!
Look at society as a whole, a lot opt for the easy out. Nowadays! Instant gratification. In the end. As they reflect back and look in the mirror they don't know what their missing , The shortened season is. Coming just a matter of time! Still deadly. Out to fifty 3 inside of a fifty cent piece. With my Mathews !!Bring it on You crossbow. Users!!
In 5 years the compound will be the new traditional gear and stick and recurves will be considered prehistoric! As discussed earlier, this will bring about consequences that effect bag limits, season lengths, public perception, etc. and we'll see what it does to new hunter recruitment. What some fellow hunters view as new traditions (not just the X-gunners) and progress makes me shake my head. I really feel for the guys in their 60's and 70's who have seen bow hunting turned on it's head lately and have done so much through the years to grow the sport and gain more opportunities for fellow bowhunters.
I'm in education and that is one field that prides itself in change. Education is not doing so well despite embracing change IMO. Careful what you wish for.
I was at an event this past weekend and I think everyone there had trad gear. Young and old, man and woman.
Archery isn't as dead as you may want to think.
Bowhunting will not go to zero, but within ten years bowhunting will lose 90% of it's bowhunters for the crossbow. One archery event is not representative.
Bowhunting as it was intended, and defined by the P&Y club,..... is doomed. There will always be a few bowhunters, just as there are a few hunters who shoot flintlocks and cap and ball.
I make sure everyone that tells me they are going to a x-gun that have no handy cap at all to make sure they get there free pink camo that comes with the x-gun license. They will cause issues like stated with tags, season length, time, etc. The ease of use maximizing the kill during the rut, and the stupid wounding shots taken with these things (long range and not finding blood) that increases the kill also will impact the archery season. Hopefully when that time comes, it is just the x-gun users that are the only ones who have to limit there hunt.
Hasn't Wisconsin already lost nearly 50% of it's bowhunter potential number to the crossbow, in just three years?
Note, I stated potential number. Meaning of all archers in the archery season including those shooting crossbows.
I do know that the number of deer taken during archery season in the county I hunt was roughly split evenly between bow and x-gun last season.
"all archers in the archery season including those shooting crossbows." Difficult to refer to crossbowers as archers. Opportunists, maybe, but pretty not sure they're not archers.
arch·er ?ärCH?r
noun: archer; plural noun: archers a person who shoots with a bow and arrows, especially at a target for sport. the zodiacal sign or constellation Sagittarius. singular proper noun: Archer; noun: the Archer
noun: archer; plural noun: archers a person who shoots with a bow and arrows, especially at a target for sport. the zodiacal sign or constellation Sagittarius.
This is the definition that I found...no mention of a shoulder-fired weapon.
Soon it will be the air bow!!
The air bow blows. Not legal in Wi for big game. Never will be. X bows are on there way out but pink camo should be mandatory for using them. There are thousands of kids coming up with the NASP and other youth programs using real human powered bows. Bowhunting is alive and well & will never die. Just another of my many personal opinions. No need to work as a member of WBH. Just need support & numbers so we are fighting for the majority. Yes, we did lose some hunters to xbows. They cam out of Bowhunting, Gunhunting and some just quit out of disgust. They added no youth, they added no women, they added nothing. All they did was take away from the other groups. License sales went down.
Lame... "This is the definition that I found...no mention of a shoulder-fired weapon" Your definition also doesn't mention that an archer DOESN'T use a shoulder fired weapon.
Lame... "This is the definition that I found...no mention of a shoulder-fired weapon" Your definition also doesn't mention that an archer DOESN'T use a shoulder fired weapon.
The majority of hunters that now use crossbows are former compound bow users, or new youth that would have started with compounds. They prefer the crossbow over the compound for the same reasons they chose compounds over recurves. Where crossbows are legal during archery seasons(full inclusion like Wisconsin), within ten years compound bow shooters will be minimal, my guess no more than 10% of those hunting in the general archery season. I hope to see an actual increase in stickbow hunters but not certain where that will go. Join Compton Traditional Archers today.
And yes, bowhunting as we knew it is largely doomed as are clubs and organizations who limit members to bowhunting and bowhunters as described by the Pope and Young Club. To be honest, one has to be greatly myopic to believe otherwise. Just look at Wisconsin and Michigan after just a few short years of full inclusion into the main archery seasons. Doomed is correct.
Sawtooth is right. Most if not all kids will start with a cross gun and most likely never switch to a bow and arrow.
I think it's cute when guys from other states (don't live here, pay taxes 12 months a year and vote) come onto this site and try and point out all of our peccadilloes when most of them would be well advised to fix things at home....
Crossbows, bows and bowhunting are a national concern, as are nationally based clubs such as the NRA and P&Y. To only worry about one state you pay income tax in is not real productive.
Woodsdweller. "The "Silly" is strong with this one." That's better lol
Far from stupid RC, it's called reality, get in touch with it.
"silly" even though you mean "stupid". I get in less trouble that way.
Reading this post is some what funny! I am a recurve shooter and always will be! I am 68 yrs. old and have shot traditional my whole life. I remember when compounds hit the market and this is the same response the stick shooter was saying. Just keep shooting what ever you shoot and enjoy it! There will Always be something NEW coming out! Just enjoy your time to hunt and being in the woods! Good Luck this fall!
the appropriate response to that banquet table should have asked what shades of pink their crossguns are? I will look down on able bodied people using these during the archery season but the genie is out of the bottle now. We can thank Mr. Buck Rub and the like agendas for this. I know our group will continue to be archers and raise our kids to do the same, not much else you can do.
I agree with bobin. And, the decline in compound use for the crossbow will be very similar to the minimization of recurve use in favor of the compound. How is that thought for dumb and silly?
I agree with Albino. Anyone who has seen the numbers of kids the NASP program attracts will know that hand drawn archery equipment should be safe and well for some time to come.
Thanks for talking about NASP. I never even heard of it until a few days ago here on this forum.
I'm going to see what I can do to get the program at my kids' district.
My daughter did NASP at the Oostburg School District. GREAT PROGRAM! Wish more schools did NASP.
Tweed - if you are looking for information on NASP or proposing a program for your local school district you need to contact Dan Schroeder at (608) 235-4619 or at
[email protected]. Dan is the go-to fellow for WI NASP and I believe will be able to assist you with whatever you need. He'll answer your questions, will make a presentation to your local school board, and will coordinate the introduction of NASP in your area. He is a professional at this and has done it many times. In addition, there are funds available for school programs to facilitate this introduction and Dan can coordinate this also.
Only "bowhunting", as defined by the P&Y club on their website is doomed. Hunting is not doomed, some of the best ever still exists.
What defines strong and long? Do you see the number of bowhunters growing over the next ten years, I do not. Recurves are strong and long, but not what they would have been if compounds had not come on the scene. Hawkens are strong and long, but not what they would have been had inlines and repeating rifles not come on the scene. You are hiding behind the strong and long comment without definition, or at least predictions. I predict a 90% decline of compound bow use over the next ten years, in states where crossbows have full inclusion. Just my prediction, could be wrong.
Safari club chapters around the state have been and are huge supporters and contributors to schools who embrace the NASP program.
woodsdweller, you better get a crossbow holder added to your lineup of products.
So, will there be more bowhunters? You are ducking that question, quack..
Technology has gut shot bowhunting. It will run for a ways before expiring, but the crows are already starting to circle....
Woody, I guess you were right. Stupid pretty much seems to be the correct word. Columbus Wi. (for those not from around here) has over 250 kids enrolled in the NASP program. That is just one school. For the last 3 years I have worked the MOHEE event held at the MacKenzie Center near Poynette. The bus in about 1800 kids from around the state. (No Mud Ducks or FIBS) We teach them all the NASP way. To think they would hunt with a xbow is myopicadilly. (found that word in my Readers Digest)
When based on numbers of hunters, bowhunting is doomed in Wisconsin, crossbow hunting is booming.
I once heard that IOWA stands for Idiot Out Wandering Around. I think that might be with an xbow.
Woodsdweller, mentioned an atlatl a few posts back. I was at my sons school yesterday and noticed a student practicing with one. Curious, and surprised school would even allow this I approached him. Turns out he's tired of hearing his friends who hunt talk about crossbows so he is taking the opposite approach. The reason they like them is because they are "cool". He wants to show them you don't need to make things easier to kill a deer. And, his weapon is even "cooler" than an xbow. He built his weapon in the school woods class with the teachers blessing. Living in an apartment, the principle lets him practice in the back of the parking lot. He's very accurate out to 10 yds now and hopes that by sep he will be comfortable making a throw out to 20. This kid gets it and by being allowed to practice at the school he has a chance to recruit another hunter or two simply because of the awesomeness of his chosen weapon and the interest it generates. He said he is currently working on a self bow and set of wooden arrows in that same class. And guess what, two of his buds are also making self bows now in hopes of using them this fall! We are not doomed! We just need a few more kids like this and everything will work itself out.
Kids are malleable. Like sponges, they learn from their parents, teachers and peers. When a youngster is found hunting with a crossbow, you need not look much past his parent(s) for the reason why. This is one huge reason to support the NASP program.
That is really awesome for that kid! And I think shows that kids and young men aren't as lazy and wanting instant gratification as much as some assume.
I think though...that the only state you can hunt with an atlatl is Mississippi. I could be wrong though. I would love to see this adopted in WI!
Tweed - I think Pa., Ala & Missouri it is legal for using atlatl. I may be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading this sometime back.
Crusader - Might this be a northern Wi school? It seems the schools up here are more tolerant than the schools in southern Wi.
My cousins son is the same way but the problem is they are rare kids. With cross guns legal the majority (90%) will choose to hunt with the easier choice. Will they ever switch, more than likely no. If they would pass the law of having to wear pink camo while cross gun hunting, the kids and adults might feel silly enough to change their mind and bowhunt.
How many of us went from gun hunting to now hunting?
Why did you do it?
Guys that pick up the xgun might... just might... after a few years want to switch things up and go to a bow.
Hoot, it's SE wi. Racine to be exact. It's our local private Lutheran school. Core values are strong and troublemakers are not accepted among the students. The teachers are allowed to use common sense and their own discretion. I suspect making weapons at one of the local public schools would draw some attention. Not the case at this school. The students have proven themselves to be trustworthy.
As far as him hunting wi or another state with his atl atl, we didn't get that far because he started telling me about the bows they are making. It definitely reassured my faith that although our numbers may decrease, with kids like that, we are not doomed.
Tweed - No one hunted in my family. I more or less just self-taught myself. The thought of bowhunting just intrigued me. I started bowhunting before I gun hunted for deer. I was hooked on bowhunting the first time I went out even though I wasn't worth a damn at it when I first started. The challenge is what I would say had the most impact on me.
Crusader - Common sense, now that's something you don't hear very often anymore. Sounds like an outstanding school. You are so right, with kids like this we are not doomed. Congrats to those kids.
Hoot, you must be my Brother from another Mother. I also had no hunters in my family. Started with a bow when I was 13 hunting rabbits along the RR tracks. Shot my first Buck, Turkey, Bear, Elk, Mule Deer & Antelope with a bow. Rock & Roll will never die & either will bowhunting.
They should stick crossbow n muzzle loader seasons together!!!
They should stick crossbow n muzzle loader seasons together!!! You know it never seems to amaze me you'll see a guy get a handicap permit handicap parking permit and yet you see them a quarter to half-mile off the beaten path, kinda makes you wonder. Kind of makes you wonder if it's between their ears the handicap!!
One of my biggest pet peeves are these so called handicap permit people that aren't disabled. They disgust me to no end. I call it lazy!
Right on. A true. Handicap I respect ! But. The ones that find. A way no tolerance!!
I have a ruptured left upper bicep tendon, along with a very minor rotator cuff tear. Also have moderate arthritis in both shoulders.
I shoot righty.
My 64 year old shoulders have forced me to hang up my 76lb longbow and 67lb recurve.
I've replaced both with a 53lb longbow and a 52lb recurve.
All is well.
Way to tough it out Rick. Forgot to add that we had 260 shooters at the WBH convention NASP tournament. All human powered bows.
Saw the latest crossbow quiver at cabelas.! If nothing else your still being home the ?? meat
Great to see the middle school kids shooting archery. The Middle School Archery Team shot at the Sparta Classic both in competition and the fun 3D shoot. There were 70 archers shooting per flight and about 500 total archers for the three states that shot that day. Our Middle School team is young, but they shot well with their highest team-score to date and many archers shooting their best score of the year!
Way to go Warrior Archers!
Hopefully they continue on with archery gear and not take the easy way out.
I sure hope they keep using archery gear. Most of he kids up here are really outdoor kids and not in front of the TV giving their thumbs a workout. They teach how to tap trees and make maple syrup, trapping courses, hunters education is taught at the school and their spring break is deer gun season. Deer hides are donated to the school and for every hide donated you fill out six raffle tickets for prizes consisting mostly of outdoor stuff.
Flipping through the channels I just seen another air gun used to take a "preserve" deer. It's called the Dragon Claw. Will shoot either arrows/bolts or .50 cal slugs with no modifications. It chronographed out at 481' ps.
It was a Kieth Warren show and he went on to say hunters should embrace new technology rather than finding what's wrong with it.
Hunting a preserve using a controversial weapon and we are supposed to embrace that??
Mark these words.....in 10-15 years compound bows will be so old school in Wisconsin there will be a big push to call them primitive, with a season of their own.
One season for compounds, recurves, atatl's, pointy sticks and good throwing rocks.......and one season for crossbows, blow guns, empty shotgun shell hulls, and whatever other prostitution of our sport comes out of the "industry" in the meantime.
I sure hope the "primative's" get the rut.
Agree with Tracker. Compound hunting and clubs are already on their way out in states where crossbows are legal during the archery season, Wisconsin included. Compound use likely will not go to zero, but only a small minority of archery hunters will use a compound bow.
This thread keeps going in a circle. X bows are on their way out. Not that many pussies in Wi. Just my personal opinion.
"dumbest comment ever" Remember the magic word "silly".
Crossbows are on their way out?
I think a lot of new crossbowers will quit after a couple unsuccessful seasons. The ones that don't quit will eventually switch to a real bow. There will be some who continue to use a crossbow but the real hunters will see the light. We are not doomed.
+2 Albino
Crossbows are on their way out? LOL!!!! Just like all the muzzleloaders who tried an in-line and went back to their flintlock.
LOL is right. Just like all the compounders who went back to a recurve. Some did, most did not. Most new hunters never have hunted with a stickbow, Hawkens, flintlock or lever with open sights. Hunters do not move from easy weapons to more difficult...except for a select few. From reviewing hoards of previous posts, there are those who are ethically obligated to use the most accurate archery weapon possible, that would be a modern scoped crossbow.
Agree, crossbowers are not bowhunters.
Thank all those who pushed crossguns through, The N.R.A. Cabellas, gander mnt., Buckrub, and all those who made profit from the degradation of bowhunting in Wisconsin. Me I moved to Colorado and believe me crossguns helped me make that decision.
Yes, x bows are not archery equipment. Plain and simple. I think once the season gets shorter as in other states it will become a relic. Wasn't there once a x bow org in Wisconsin? Won't be long & this whole x bow thing will implode. The only market will be for poachers that can't afford what some call air bows. Best comment ever. Personal opinion only.
I wasn't sure whether to post on this thread or the "I think we are going to be ok" thread! I hope you're correct, Albino, and x bows go away except for those with legit physical limitations or 65+years old. CDAC data for buck harvest numbers for Bayfield County, where I hunt, from 2014-2016 are mind-numbing if you are interested in preserving "bow" hunting.
2014 Bow-253; X bow-204 2015 Bow 277; X bow 260 2016 Bow 268; X bow 349
I'm not liking that trend at all. What will 2017 look like for the x bowers?
Trespasser, you are nothing short of a fool. If you were in the least bit enlightened, you'd know that the owner of BuckRub lead the fight to keep crossbows out of WI. Glad you Moved to CO, now you you can take a toke and continue on in your fantasyland.
All of those innovations you've just mentioned are related to bowhunting. A crossbow is a shoulder fired weapon and therefore is not bowhunting. Your points are pointless because one is not the same as the other.
Also, just fyi, the old trad guys routinely took shots of over 50 yds just hoping to get an arrow in the animal. The ethics of long range shots have only recently came into question.
Shoulder fired weapons of any kind belong in the gun season or for legitimately disabled hunters. That's it!
Good response Crusader. Masterbait is such an ignorant thing that he does not deserve well thought responses. What you said is understood by us who think and have no agenda to derail every thread that comes up.
Musky, Either thread works. The Ok thread should be for more positive posts but not likely on here. I & WBH agree on the handicapped and 65+ using them. That is what they are made for to give them a level playing field. Now they lost any advantage they had to pusses that walk right by them that are stuck at the edge & wreck their hunting. What a slap in the face for our Veterans & other Disabled. By the way My average shot in Wi. is 13 yards with 150+ kills. Out West on Big Game it is longer as Muleys & Elk usually stand and watch the arrow come in.
