Arrow Questions
Connecticut
Just wondering what everyone uses for arrows? What type of vanes are you using, 4", helical, straight, feathers, etc? Broadhead weight? Brand of arrow?
I've tried so many different arrows, vanes, heads, etc over the years and I haven't seen anything that is definitively better than the next. The only thing that seems to work best is practice, practice, practice.
Bob, I use aluminum, because I have settled on a standard broadhead weight of 125gn.
Selecting a carbon shaft requires the user to adjust both the head weight and shaft length to achieve best flight. From what I have gathered about carbon, all makers vary their "grains per inch" specifications, which puts the work on the user to adjust the shaft to their equipment characteristics and form.
I bare shaft paper test for best flight and have settled on 2016 shafts at 31.25". I fletch with 5.5" banana or high shield cut feathers. Flight visibility is excellent and the larger fletch absolutely controls the fixed blade broadheads I use. Left wing feathers are mounted with an extreme left helical. The appearance of the fletch from the nock end is like looking at a propeller.
For hunting I like a stable, heavy arrow, without wobble, thereby putting all the force squarely behind the point for maximum penetration.
"definitively better than the next" - That's for you to decide through experimentation.
The carbon arrow have a lot of overlap so picking one isn't that hard .Steve beman hunter 400 .100 grain head 2 in blazer with straight offset I shoot the same arrow at 52 lb and 60 lb Steve
Wild Bill, all that you mentioned can be easily achieved with an Easton arrow chart and carbon arrows. And I dare say each carbon arrow probably has a longer average life than aluminum.
Beaman 32" 340..125gr,2" blazer vanes slight offset.32 1/2 " draw,67#..i have a bohning jig that I can get a good offset with feathers but tough to do with balzers...ihave the carbon express blue 350 I want to try
The good thing about Carbon arrows vs Aluminum.....carbon are either broke or straight, there's no in between.
I shoot Easton Axis 300's. 29" long with a 125gr tip. I also shoot a little over 70lbs on a 30" draw. I wanted a stiffer heavier arrow that flies like dart and can penetrate. I'm shooting AAE Maxfletch vanes after trying Blazers. I found the AAE gave me quieter arrow flight and better consistency. They also give me a tiny bit extra length for more helical while still keeping a small profile.
All I can say is try to shoot the heaviest weight on your bow you are comfortable with, with an adequate arrow that maximizes the stored energy you're transferring and you'll be deadly. And do all the fine tuning yourself so you're shooting darts at the end of the day.
Shoot aluminum, four inch vanes. Tried carbons, didn't like them.
I do shoot carbon. I really can't compare to anything else as I haven't shot anything else. I started off with what I could afford but this year was finally able to purchase a nice set. I shoot bloodsports with a 350 spine. My draw is 29" and I'm pulling 65lbs. I use 100 grain muzzy trocar hb for broad heads. They do fly true and I like them. Hopefully I can tell you more after they fly through a deer or bird..
Easton Axis 400 28'' balzer vanes, 100 gr heads. 9 gpi & small diameter 5mm I like the small diameter arrows.
Beman ICS carbon. 62 lbs. Currently having all of the blazer vanes swapped to traditional 4" since I shoot with a Whisker Biscuit and the difference in drag is pretty clear when I pull each one through the WB. Wish I could increase the amount of helical twist while I'm at it, but I doubt that would work well with WB. I usually shoot 100 grain heads but started experimenting with 125s yesterday. No significant difference noticed out to 20 yards indoors, but I expect there will be outdoors at 40+. Not that I have ever had issues with penetration... ( insert man card joke here), but I wanted to see if shifting weight forward would make a noticeable difference. I checked and could find no brass inserts for these shafts. Not sure what brand of nock, but they light up and they are green. Slick Trick viper tricks on front end.
Victory .300 spine carbon arrows with Vanetec, swift vanes, 2.88. with helical 150gr Unvented VPA broadheads.
Easton ACC Prohunter 340s with 3" wrap, blazer vanes, nocturnal lighted nock and 100 grain Vipertrick. They weigh 455 grains.
longbeard,
Easton charts are only for Easton arrows. Each maker has a different "grains per inch" for the same 400,500,600 shafts. Therefore, the charts are only ballpark, and, from what I hear on the Leatherwall, proscribing stiffer shafts than needed. Aluminum charts were providing the same ballpark, however, with more different shafts available, it was easier to find the correct spine. Once you established easily available head weight, you only had to trim the shaft to get good flight. Carbons require you to not only trim the shaft, but also establish a head weight through trial and error.
As far as carbon lifespan goes, I'm not convinced they last any longer. I shoot twice weekly outdoors with other shooters and their carbons break just like mine sometimes do. In fact, they have to use aluminum collars behind the point to protect the carbon from splintering due to a rock or tree hit. Of course the size of the aluminum affects point weight and has to be factored to achieve good flight. Many traditional carbon users advocate extreme FOC to get around tuning for good flight. I don't know what they do about shooting broadheads on the same shafts. Doesn't seem right to me.
Having raised two sons, who also shot bows, I'm pretty good at straightening aluminum from almost any bend, to the point. At the club, we have a lost arrow pail outside. Use to be full of aluminum and most bent. Now the pail is full of carbon and most splintered.
If you don't properly check each carbon you shoot, every shot, you could wind up like the hand in the photo. Nah, I'd sooner go back to wood.
True WB but its still a great chart to go to, I've been shooting Easton arrows for years. Also I have never had to conscously "establish" a head weight. I pick a head I want to shoot and at what weight, factor in the weight I'm pulling + my draw length and I go to the chart and pick the spine that fits. As you said all arrow manufacterors have a chart. I was commenting on your first post because you made it sound so complicated when using carbon arrowws. Really its not, don't overthink it.
As far as your second post, you show a couple of pictures of splintered carbon arrows throgh someones hand. OUCH! and then you reference that your good at straightening aluminum arrows. I hope you meant that you re-use them for tomato stakes or for you turkey decoy
longbeard,
I straighten aluminum to shoot again and again, but not if they have a dent, well, maybe sometimes. It just depends on where the dent is and how deep the dimple.
Have you shot a bare carbon shaft to see how straight it flies?
I've been shooting tapered carbons for quite a while. Really like 'em, except that I had to get glue-in inserts for the nocks because when I hit something hard, the nocks were splitting the rear end of the shaft. I used to just glue in a nock, but once that one breaks you're toast.
For me, the carbons were better than aluminum because I tend to bust up arrows more often than lose them. But now that I've acquired a couple of longbows, I'm drifting towards wood. I'll want to know what aluminum shaft each bow likes best, because sometimes you just need a dozen arrows TODAY, but I've always had a thing for wood.
I just traded off my compound, but I have helical-fletched feathers on the arrows for it. Yeah, they rob some speed, but not enough to matter at short range, where I'd rather be sure that the arrow is settled and flying point-on.
Lots of interesting comments, but I tend to over simplify my shooting criteria. The central concern for me is this - is there a certain arrow that provides better accuracy? Does it fly better? Group more consistently? More penetration?
To me, accuracy over-rides everything else when hunting whitetails in CT. GF stated that our shooting distances in CT are typically short, so penetration, speed, arrow weight, broadhead weight, etc tend to be lesser concerns for me. If there's an arrow set up that provides superior accuracy then that's what I'm looking for. I haven't seen one yet that is far better than the next. Most arrows today are pretty damn good, it's mostly operator error when it comes to a poor shot. I always like to try new set ups, so you've given me a few ideas already.
Yes I have shot bare carbon shafts. Usually when you buy a dozen arrows, even carbon, there are rarely 10 out of the 12 that are straight. As BBB mentioned accuracy is the ultimate in what we do and it all starts with the straightest arrow we can get. When ever I buy a dozen arrows I ask the sales person if I can hand choose the arrows from a big pile. Sometimes they say yes and I smile!!
longbeard,
What method do you use to determine straightness?
I recall other shooters telling me that carbons are either straight or broken, I never heard of new arrows not being straight.
I have a few arrow straightening tools that could prove useful in determining arrow straightness.
B3 - I agree that accuracy trumps everything, however most modern equipment is pretty good and most of my shots at deer have been under 15 yards. The biggest thing I need to improve has to do with the guy standing behind my arrow. Tinkering helps build my confidence in what I am shooting, and that indirectly helps with accuracy. Whenever I think of buying a new piece of equipment I remind myself about the 300 lb guy who spent a ton of extra money on a bicycle because it is 8 oz lighter than the other model he was looking at.
Carbon arrow are speced out to like .001or.003 it doesn't make much difference to me with the drop away rest a bent arrow highting the side of a solid rest will push the arrow out straighting arrow between v blocks and a indicator is very slow you need a lathe so you can spin the arrow and see were it is high or low do it all the time when you machine a part
N8 - confidence is huge consideration when shooting and I agree that we all tend to have our own tricks to build confidence, but I think new and better equipment falls into that category and I guess why I started this thread. But you also stated what I have learned over the years, and that's that the 8 oz difference makes no difference at all. The difference comes from me getting down from 300 lbs to 180 lbs of pure muscle, and that comes with practice, training, and diligence.
Omg I hate seeing that pic of the hand with splintered carbon ..that probably never stops itching .. never mind the physical damage .. if a carbon arrow has any imperfections throw it away far away so you don't accidentally shoot it latter .. carbon express shoot well over the years but they do brake easily .. was thinking of going with gold tips or Easton metal jackets .. so the carbon hand mutation won't happen to me .. omg I like my hands just the way they are .. what is the safest arrow to shoot .. I want to examine th e Easton metal jackets might be worth the piece of mind .. good luck and be safe guys
WB if you examine them closely you can actually see that some aren't straight. When I buy a dozen raw arrows I usually cut down from both ends because most of the inperfections of carbon are near the ends.
roll them on a piece of glass if you want to see if there straight the put a feeler gage under the high spot that way you can even measure how much there off .
Kid venison - if you think that picture is disturbing, wait till I post the one of the 300 lb fat guy riding a bicycle
N8tureBoy,
Please don't do that.
longbeard, Very interesting. I always heard that a slight bend near the point wasn't quite so bad as a bend anywhere else on the shaft. Of course, shooting a recurve where the fps is below 200, leaves room for an imperfect arrow to work reasonably well. Ok for foam targets, but not ethical on animals. Wobbles are real easy to spot on the ends of the arrow.
Main thing about short-range penetration is getting the arrow straightened out QUICKLY, which is why I like large-ish helical feathers... Though if I can get a good bare-shaft tune going, I'll probably cut back down to 3"-3.5" shields or French Curves...because if you don't need the extra stabilization, it's only costing you speed... And I'd be surprised if I can get an honest 180 fps without resorting to underweight projectiles...
But that reminds me... I've got a dozen brand-new Beeman 400s cut to 27" that could use a good home...
