Carrying a firearm while shining deer
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
Its not my thing so I have to ask: can you now carry a loaded long gun in the vehicle's passenger compartment?
Tweed. No. Only a loaded handgun per CCW rules.
In my opinion shining should be outlawed all together. And don't put me on your dumbest comments list. I already have enough of those. lol
Albino- why do you feel that shining should be illegal?
Corect me if I'm wrong here because the law may have changed since I last read it but aside from cc permit holders any gun in transport must be encased and unloaded. If this is still the case than anyone pulled over for shining that has a gun out of its case should be ticketed for illegal hunting even if said gun is unloaded at the time of the stop.
As far as shining goes, my son and I really enjoy seeing 30 pair of eyes staring back at us in the spotlight on our way back to the house after a hunt. We usually take the long way home and shine the fields for 30 min or so. It's amazing to see all those deer out there when just a couple hours before the field was empty. For those against it, what are we hurting by shining deer?
No firearms are required to be enclosed in a case during transportation. However long guns must be unloaded and handguns can only be loaded inline with CCW regulations.
What on earth would someone need a gun uncased for while they are driving? That rule should have remained in effect. Now that I've gotten the clarification I do not like the idea of being able to have a firearm in a vehicle while shining. With the exception of those who have a conceal carry permit. Cc folks are liscensed and therefore should be allowed to carry anywhere/anytime they want as long as they are not consuming alcohol.
Crusader, I hope you weren't shining on your way home from hunting with a weapon in the car-cased or not. Other than under the CCW rules, it's illegal to have your gun/bow/xbow in the vehicle while shining.
Even if its in the trunk?
You cannot have a weapon with you period unless it is a handgun under authority of CCW. And that's the way it should be.
Skook, we did have our bows. They were cased and in the back. I know ignorance is no excuse but I had no idea we were breaking a law. Had I known, we'd have just ran them to the house and then taken our ride. It really was happenstance that we started doing it after our evening hunt because on our first night a big buck ran in front of my car and it gave me the idea to shine a few of our fields on our way to the house for the evening.
I have to admit that even though I never thought about it since the thought of using my bow that was in my vehicle would have never occurred to me. Because I'm not a poacher and meant no harm. I agree with skook. I also see no reason for a gun while in transport to be uncased. Unless of course you have a pistol and cc liscense.
listened to the senator on talk radio just a couple hrs after this bill was introduced, the link (woods) put up pretty much covers it. It was up for topic when act 35 was passed but it was shot down I believe. I think it will be a hard one to pass. I agree with most of it and would never disagree with anything gun control related, but while personal protection is at the front of this bill,I think some of it is a little overboard such as shinning and stadiums ect.
If we get shooting hours, that will cover this. Have all the guns you want with you when shining or sitting or walking but fire one of those weapons after legal shooting hours and you have broken the law.
A lot of the laws. States impose are unconstitutional. The 2nd amendment covers a lot of it.
I wouldn't mind the change. After a hunt it would be nice to shine the fields on the way home.
Tweed, Lot of posts on here since you asked about why I am against shining. I have many reasons. Always hate to make laws just for the few bad guys out there but I have seen where it spooks Horses & Cows. Pretty irritating to have your house shined constantly till 10:00. I have had 3 vehicles shining at a time just on 120 acres. Some start just as it is getting dark. I think it spooks some of the Deer & changes when they come out. I think it encourages poaching & trespassing when you have a few nice Deer that have been let grow. Especially now with the new quieter weapons available for poachers. If you do have nice Deer word gets out & the shining is constant. Everyone wants to see them & some want to figure out how to cut them off & screw up your hunting. To me it is just a pain in the but. Then again just my opinion. I also forgot to mention the thrill killers that seem to be getting more common. I have found a few of their deer.
If you have ever found a gut pile or a deer walking to your stand you would understand why people don't want to allow shining. Criminals kill a lot of deer and steal them under the cover of darkness. I am not saying everyone who shines is a criminal. There are plenty of law abiding hunters who enjoy shining. There is no need to pressure the deer which are already receiving enough pressure during the hunting seasons.
I think all firearms should be cased in a vehicle. No reason to have a gun while shining unless cc.
IMO the penalties for poaching are way to weak. Many times it seems to be not much more than a slap on the wrist. Commit a crime against a so called pet or domestic animal and the penalties imposed are much more serious. The penalties for poaching should be no different or more severe!
I admit I enjoy shining deer, but I would be just fine with it being banned. My father-in-law has heard shots at night for years and we are now finding bolts in his fields that were certainly shot from the road. Allowing a person to carry a gun while shining won't stop poachers, but it makes it easier to get away with it. And tempts the guy who is on the fence about poaching a deer when a weapon is in the backseat.
Shinning - Havent done it for years. That being said , I can remember the enjoyment my family had running around looking for deer. We had a blast. The picture that is cited above. Chances are that this occurred well after 10 PM which is the closing hour for shinning. Could have been before 10PM, but unlikely. Sinning like every other thing in life should not be banned because of the action of others. Christ - if that happened you'd never be able to do anything. There will always be some clown(s) that violate. And - once the law against shinning is enacted - the clowns will still be shinning and shooting deer. Changing a law on the actions of a few idiots does not make sense.
Good Hunting!
Helgermite -
Please don't hold your breathe on fines imposed and any type of increase.
Right now DA's across this State are reducing fines to stay out of court!
Too many cases and not enough attorney's in the DA's Office because many, many cases to be plea-bargained to stay away from a possible trial - no one has time for. Homicides, sexual assaults, armed robberies take precedence so conservation crimes - kinda on the bottom. So unfortunate.
If we all knew what was being plea bargained and the "fines" and "charges" that are being impoased - your blood pressure would rise a tad.
I say do not blame the DA - they only can work with what they have. And what hey have is not enough help. The courts do not have enough Judges.
"8" - makes sense. Keeping the honest guys honest?
My two cents, first on shinning. I am a fan of shinning, something my friends and I have done since we got our drivers license. It is something I will continue to do unless it becomes outlawed. As far as making it easier for poachers I have the view if someone is going to violate then they don't care about the law to begin with so why would making it illegal stop them from doing it? As for having an uncased weapon I am all for that also. Since the law was changed I haven't used a case. If I am going up to my cabin for the weekend to shoot guns it's nice being able to load the car up without having to find 3-4 cases. During hunting season after sitting in the woods all day freezing its nice to just unload gun and set it in back seat and not have to pull a case out and zip it up with numb fingers. Now is it a huge deal no I got by just fine when we had to use a case but in my opinion it makes sense not to have to case a firearm. I don't really understand why you needed a case to begin with, if you are a law abiding hunter you don't drive around with a loaded gun and you don't shoot from road to begin with.
I agree with CaptMike, the shooting hours bill should cover this too. You aren't guilty of anything until you shoot at a targeted animal.
As far as the cased weapons, I rarely case any gun or bow since the law got changed. Why mess around with putting the gun or bow in a case when you can just lay it across the back seat or in the front passenger area?? If I travel more than an hour away, I'll case it to protect the weapon better, but other than that, it makes no sense to case it if you have room to put it in the vehicle. It is great for coyote hunting with hounds, some days you'd have to case and uncase your gun 50 times....now you just need to load and unload it.
There are some very good points on both sides of this discussion. I am now standing on the fence as to my opinion. I enjoy shining and after hearing some guys reasoning for not wanting to case your gun while driving that makes sense too. 8 also makes a great point in it will prevent a couple guys who may be too tempted by that big buck in their spotlight. Ughhh, I just don't know which way to go on this one. For me, I will still continue to unload and case my gun because if for no other reason, it prevents damage. Same thing with my bow. It also makes my intent pretty cut and dry if I ever did get pulled over by a GW while shining. I never even knew this was a law to begin with.
And WD, it's hard enough for me to get in between the legs of my wife. Duct tape would just give her another excuse;-) I don't like that idea at all.
"The bill removes the general prohibition against carrying a firearm while shining wildlife. For example, under current law, if you were to shine the headlights of your vehicle at a deer at night while possessing a firearm in your vehicle, you would be violating current law. Under this bill, situations where you are carrying a firearm and shining (but NOT shooting the firearm) would be allowed."
It only makes sense and it's about time. The law as it stands is stupid and always has been. I wonder how many poor souls have gotten fined for having an unloaded, cased, firearm in their vehicle while shining that they more than likely never would have considered using to poach a deer. I haven't shined for years, but when we did yes we had to leave the hunting area after a hunt, drive somewhere and drop the weapons off, then go back shining. Why? Because apparently in the DNR's eyes and some of the posters here every law abiding hunter is a sneeze away from violating if given any sort of opportunity. And personally I'd like to be able to turn my truck around in a field without receiving a citation because my headlights shined on a deer that was out in the field if I happen to have a weapon with me. It's refreshing to see some of these draconian laws that give LE way too much discretion challenged, and hopefully ultimately changed. If only we could change the mindset of the DNR so they quit spewing their nonsense that casts the violator light on most hunters.
If a cars headlight shines on private land in the course of driving, as in on a curve or turning a corner that is fine. Otherwise it should be illegal to shine any sort of light on private property that you do not own or have permission to shine on. You are basically trespassing.
As far as the pic that MikeF posted of the headless buck. Happened 30 yards from my house last year, it was around 10:00 PM during gun dear season. Heard a shot or loud firework just west of our house. Called the sheriff but don't think they ever showed up. Next day there was a nice size headless buck laying in the ditch. A large rock outcrop between down where the buck was and and our house baffled the sound of the shot or I would have insisted that the sheriff get there fast. Talking to the warden the next afternoon he pretty much said too late now. County had already disposed of the body. No evidence left except some blood on our lawn.
Some would say, maybe it was hit by a car and they finished off. It is still illegal for them to take the rack without a possession tag. Plus the warden there would not issue a tag for the antlers alone, they must take the entire deer under road kill circumstances. (This was in MN so Wisconsin may have slightly different view on this, especially now that you can just call it in.)
I never had much use for people that shine and after this any new law that restricts what and where shining is legal gets cheering from me.
HunterR - I would suggest that as soon as possible you get down to the State employment office and get your Warden application in the mail. With such an insight to violator(s) and how the law should be enforced and citations dispensed, I bet you'll be teaching at the academy before you even graduate as a recruit!
You really have no idea how much "discretionary authority" a law enforcement officer has regarding enforcement issues. And Thank the good Lord and Greyhound they have it to make the decision they have to make EVERY day.
HunterR sez: "DNR so they quit spewing their nonsense that casts the violator light on most hunters." And what pray tell, what background, what information do you have that lends any truthfulness or creditability to such a statement? Anything?
Just curious....
"County dispensed of the body" - WOW...
Takes our County like 10 days and that's a good week! We hire a "Deer Contractor" and they bid to pick up deer in the County! Even so, the body has to be somewhere...warden could have looked at it.
With the sound of the shot, most likely poached.
Too bad!
I even called the county maintenance folks myself. It was near end of first shift by then and she said it was already out of county hands and either incenarated or buried by then. Not sure which she said. She did confirm that they had picked it up. My guess is they had a truck out picking deer up in that general area when they got the call.
The timing was backwards, I didn't really know what was up and didn't call the warden until after the evidence was gone. i.e. I didn't connect the shot with what I thought was just a road kill that had the antlers stolen until it was too late. I never even looked for a bullet hole on the carcass because at the time I was thinking road kill. Maybe it was road kill, maybe the shooter hit it and dispatched it, or maybe the shooter just saw it suffering in the ditch and decided he needed to finish it off and keep the antlers. Whatever happened I am still kicking myself for not putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 4 in a timely manner.
WD, you are totally right. Violators will violate and making the act of shining itself illegal won't stop everyone, nor will keeping it illegal to have a gun on board while shining stop many from poaching. But anything that makes it easier for law enforcement to ticket people for the the act of shining itself is good with me. I say make it tougher to shine, not easier to actually poach while legally shining.
albino said "Tweed, Lot of posts on here since you asked about why I am against shining. I have many reasons. Always hate to make laws just for the few bad guys out there but I have seen where it spooks Horses & Cows. Pretty irritating to have your house shined constantly till 10:00. I have had 3 vehicles shining at a time just on 120 acres. Some start just as it is getting dark. I think it spooks some of the Deer & changes when they come out. I think it encourages poaching & trespassing when you have a few nice Deer that have been let grow. Especially now with the new quieter weapons available for poachers. If you do have nice Deer word gets out & the shining is constant. Everyone wants to see them & some want to figure out how to cut them off & screw up your hunting. To me it is just a pain in the but. Then again just my opinion. "
I agree. We had 3 nice bucks coming out to an alfalfa field during early bow season and into the rut. As gun season got closer more and more shiners showed up and the bucks started coming out later after shooting hours. Know this for a fact by the trailcam pics showing them coming out later and later. Once gun season rolled around they were gone and the shining stopped. One of the buck showed up again in December.
On the shining I was just giving my personal opinion from experience of 44 years bowhunting. Not trying to get it outlawed and either is the bill. I have found dead deer with 22 holes in them off roads & snowmobile trails. Maybe outlaw snowmobiles & cars after 10:00 lol. When I reported them to the Warden they thanked me for reporting it. Did not come out to look. Now with my phone I send pics right to the Warden. I think the newer class of Wardens are very fair & do not treat every outdoorsman as a Criminal. I Thank them if I get checked because they are doing their job. A small price to pay for what they do for us.
Almost forgot C Dad. That duct tape comes off really easy. I just try to get it back in the same place before you get home. LOL
Lol^^^. Is that why she's always tired?
"I think the newer class of Wardens are very fair & do not treat every outdoorsman as a Criminal." I agree with this. Secretary Stepp has directed them to try and improve their image.
One way to stop shining is plant trees along the road right of way. Start now and the problem is solved in a few years. The longer you wait the longer the problem exists.
"I think the newer class of Wardens are very fair & do not treat every outdoorsman as a Criminal."
If only we could get some of the die hard DNR fanboys that post here and the outdoor media to follow in their footsteps we'd be off to a good start.
I'm all for having clear laws that are easy to enforce and easy to understand, in my opinion the less "guessing" (read as "discretion") LE has to do the better off everyone is. Not to mention in this day and age how many cases are dropped due to a good attorney and questionable evidence/procedural errors? Possibly if things are more cut and dried a higher percentage of charges would make it to convictions based on less "guesswork" done by LE and a lot less of the court system's time would be wasted on weak cases.
"If a cars headlight shines on private land in the course of driving, as in on a curve or turning a corner that is fine. Otherwise it should be illegal to shine any sort of light on private property that you do not own or have permission to shine on. You are basically trespassing. "
I was referring more to driving and/or turning around off road on property I own (which is why I said "in a field") or on property I have permission to be on. I wouldn't think any LEO would write a ticket to someone in a scenario where they are simply following the layout of a public road. Good luck with that trespassing thing for people shining private land they do not own. Whatcha gonna do when the drones start flying over? Might want to think about some thick camo netting covering your whole property, could be costly but then you could be assured no one will see anything.......
HunterR -
I mean no disrespect, but you really need to center your comments on things you have some sort of knowledge or experience with. Honestly.....
Based upon your comments it's quite clear you have none of that, when you speak of law, law enforcement or procedural expectations within the criminal justice system.
HunterR sez: " Not to mention in this day and age how many cases are dropped due to a good attorney and questionable evidence/procedural errors? Possibly if things are more cut and dried a higher percentage of charges would make it to convictions based on less "guesswork" done by LE and a lot less of the court system's time would be wasted on weak cases."
What statistics or evidence (of any type) do you have that maintains how many "cases are dropped" due to a (a) good attorney (B)" questionable evidence/procedural errors"?
Other then just pulling that from your backside, what qualifies such a statement? Just curious? Do you spend a lot of time in courtrooms across the State? Perhaps you're a "Investigative Reporter?" What's up?
The reason I asked is, because every case BEFORE it goes to a court, is REVIEWED by the District Attorney's Office. So, if the case was flawed or inappropriately handled, the District Attorney would point that out before a court hearing and not move on with the case. Being human DA's sometimes miss an element here and there and the case is dismissed - absolutely, but it's a rare occurrence. If it happened like you report, the DA would be out of a job!
And what's with this "guessing" you talk of.
Our wardens receive training like they never have before in the history of our Warden Service. Nearly 20 weeks of recruit training - another 12 weeks of FTO training and then out by themselves. It should also be noted that today's warden is a graduate of a 4 year college degree as well.
LEO don't "guess" in their jobs. Because someone who guesses in an investigation often times, will soon find themselves in the unemployment line in a BIG hurry. Everything they worked so hard for is in the toilet.
EVERYTHING a LEO does is under review by a supervisor and he/she must be able to articulate in no uncertain terms why he/she did what they did and why they did it. There are a whole lot of "HunterR" folks that are asking questions of LEO's and that's not a bad thing. People have a right to know what their police are doing and why. What they don't need is someone drawing conclusions based on nothing more than a "feeling" or they "heard that".
Your career as a LEO rests on your integrity, ability to make safe, sound decision and to use your authority in a manner that serves the greater good of the public you serve. It's doing the right thing at the right time for the right reasons to serve and protect.
Thanks HunterR
Tell that one to black lives matters See where it gets you!
Don't get me started on blm.
Tough crowd. Got to love it.
Give a guy a spot light, he'll become a poacher.
Take a gun case away, he will poach.
Change hunting hours to shooting hours, he will poach.
Sounds like hunters are forced to violate based on regulations changes.
But it's ok to harvest an animal you do not have a tag for.
What exactly is gained by shining a field that you don't or do own? If you own the field, I'm guessing you have cameras on your place to get a feel of what is using your land. I've never understood the attraction to shining a field and seeing a set of eyes. In my opinion, it should go the way of the backtag and be eliminated. Just opens the door for trespassing or illegal shooting if they see something of interest.
I can only speak from personal experience with the family but they not only enjoyed seeing the deer, but enjoyed counting them as well.
There are plenty of folks in this State that shine deer and never take a shot at anything other than one of "Jack" once there home!!
Did you read that article, it doesn't support the value of shining for #4. Everyone has their own opinion and mine is that shining does more harm than good. If the deer aren't pressured in your area, you should see them coming out to fields well before dark. If you are shining long enough to see deer interactions, you've been sitting by the road side for too long with a light in your hand. If you are shining land that you don't own, it's just wrong and you are messing with someone else's opportunities.
That is the #1 problem with this forum. As soon as someone has a different opinion, the belittling and name calling starts. The loudest voice wins and the rest just stop reading & responding. Very sad.
Butthurt report form
LMAO
+1
I'm surprised about the people all upset about shining, like they can't do anything about it. Try planting something, it works well as others have said and there are many options. Temporary screenings work good for the first few years until the more permanent stuff is established. Just think, start now and in a few years you'll have to find something else to whine about. No more of your houses being lit up waking you from your slumber (I can't imagine the horror when there's a thunderstorm with lightning) and no more unsuccessful hunts due to people shining the night before and changing the deer patterns causing you to be unsuccessful. OMG
Private property owners don't own their mineral rights Under rheir property. As I have bought up hundreds of acres without land owners even knowing. Just like the dakotas horizontally drill for miles just lake shining. The landowner only owns the land nothing above or below. Your a steward of your land at best! Scouting with amy drone tells me what the landowner is up to. Next time a drone comes over your stands don't forget to smile!!!!say Cheese!!!
Check this bad boy out. 15 mile gps range. Iluminates. 5 acres. Like daylight.
Check this bad boy out. 15 mile gps range. Iluminates. 5 acres. Like daylight.
We have the skinny. Field reports. Day or night. Set on the couch Shine your land for you can send app to your android phone. your land for you.
Look at the benefits. Finding a lost cow. Find out what your buddy's up to , locate your wife , for the man on the go check your foodplot bid foot sighting. Turn the old nocturnal buck. Into a daytime feeder ! The list goes on and on!
There is absolutely no reason to be carrying a firearm when shinning deer. None! Shining deer is not a right! Make up your mind - either you want to shine deer or carry a firearm - I know, leaving that firearm or going home to drop it off is asking a lot for some on here - but if you choose - nobody is forcing you to engage in the practice - leave all guns/bows/crossbows at home if you shine. If you don't have your guns and such, shine till 10PM and go on with your day! Pretty simple stuff!
No it's not. A CC holder can legally shine with their gun now.
Ron- Once again - Thanks for pointing out the obvious! The title of this "bill" should be the "Lingering violator headlight bill"...
That is because every example I read in support of this bill is from guys like yourself that like to point out..."What if your headlights "linger" in a field". And I say "SO WHAT"?
People seem to think there's a warden behind every tree just waiting, salivating to write that one ticket for all those "lingering" violators?
Do I have to check with the DNR and find out just how many "shining" tickets were written? And then only to find out it's like less than 1% like the ridiculous "Shooting/Hunting Hours" bill?
We should be focusing our energy on issues like "Hunter Retention" "Hunter Image" and our youth.
Wasted time - and yes Ron, some pretty simple stuff.