Mathews Inc.
Rattlesnake article in T and G.
Massachusetts
Contributors to this thread:
Will 26-Apr-17
Jebediah 26-Apr-17
BC 26-Apr-17
spike78 26-Apr-17
bucktail 27-Apr-17
Will 27-Apr-17
Jebediah 27-Apr-17
hickstick 01-May-17
spike78 01-May-17
Tekoa 03-May-17
Will 04-May-17
Tekoa 04-May-17
From: Will
26-Apr-17

Will's Link
http://www.telegram.com/sports/20170424/mark-blazis-supporting-timber-rattlesnake-restoration-on-mt-zion-island I really like Mark Blazis articles in the Worcester T and G. This one, well, it got me thinking, and I have to admit, it's got me changing mindsets.

I've vacillated on the issue of rattlesnake re-introduction to Mt Zion. One one hand, it does seem like a sensible place for this project... but on the other, well, really? Does this make sense big picture? What's the real value?

The more I've spoken with biologists about it, and reading Mark's article... Something hit me. I sure think it stinks when wildlife management issues become fodder for the general population or legislature. It's like asking a huge group with no knowledge of a subject to make educated guesses (that's all the decisions become) on the subject. Sort of like when radio hosts go talk to random "fans" at a Sox game and ask questions of "Pink Hat Fans" to get the hysterical, completely clueless responses... OR, when TV hosts ask folks questions like "Are you trying to eat gluten free?" and when the person says yes, they ask "what's gluten" and the person has no frigging clue what or why they are avoiding it. Here, an EASY example was the ban on trapping. Let people with NO clue create a rule based only on subjective thinking and the outcome was horrid.

So, while I feel strongly about that, here I was on a subject, (Snakes on Zion) feeling like "we" the masses should control the idea. Rather than learning from experts, we have been learning via conjecture, fear, etc.

I still feel like this effort, perhaps could be better put elsewhere. I wish these biologists would work to improve other aspects of our wildlife resources - be they game or not. But, the science, while not perfect, sure does suggest that if these snakes even survived in the first place, they would be hugely unlikely to have interaction with "us".

I think begrudgingly, Mark's article has pushed me back to my earlier thoughts... That I dont fully get the rationale, but, big picture, it's likely a positive environmentally... and more so, it's a positive because it would keep wildlife management decisions in the hands of those who have made such decisions their life work.

Take a look and lay out your thoughts. I'm curious!

From: Jebediah
26-Apr-17
From what I've read, Blazis is generally on the mark, but I think this is a case where he and I differ. He says correctly that we're exponentially more likely to be harmed by people, both on and off the trail, versus rattlesnakes. I attribute this to there being about 7 million people in MA, and 200 rattlesnakes. Seems to me this is just about the right ratio.

From: BC
26-Apr-17
Whats a pink hat fan?

From: spike78
26-Apr-17
I'm all for it however if they are released on an island We are not allowed on then snake enthusiasts will not be able to enjoy these rattlers so it defeats the purpose.

From: bucktail
27-Apr-17
We need more rattlesnakes in Massachusetts like we need more ISIS and Islamic extremist in Massachusetts!!

From: Will
27-Apr-17
Bucktail - that right there is funny :) BC - Pink Hat's are those fan's of a team that only "pop" up when the team suddenly is good. Stereotypically these may be women, and drove the onslaught of, literally, things like Pink Hats when the socks broke the curse. These are fans who, if they were asked what position say, Tom Brady played, they may say "Pitcher" or "Goalie" :) and be serious. (Note, dont ask me what position Brad Marchand plays on the Bruins, I'm a pink hat Bruins fan :))

You raise a good point on that Jeb. Ill counter it though with this. One of the densest populations of rattle snakes AND copperheads in MA is the Blue Hills. Hundreds, probably thousands of people walk, run, walk dogs, bike etc in there weekly, and I dont think the state has a record of a bite occurring there. Zion, conversely, only is open for biologists.

My "fears" included that the snakes would swim and you could end up with populations off the island. Those may or may not be there in small numbers - within 3 miles of Zion as the crow flies I can think of 3 things literally named "Rattlesnake ..." Two Rattlesnake hills - one in New Salem north of Zion and one in Petersham, due east of the proposed release site - and certainly in range even based on Blazis article - at most it's a mile, I'd guess .75 miles, most of which would have to be swum. Then there is Rattlesnake Gutter Rd in Shutesbury or Leverett... that may be more like 4 miles as the crow flies. But, certainly suggests that at one time, snakes were seen/found in those areas.

As a kid, I remember workers building or fixing the Petersham Curling Club or Golf Club building supposedly found 2 Timber Rattlers under the building while working on the foundation, that's never been substantiated, just what I was told in the Petersham rumor mill. I saw two copper heads in Petersham, about 10 years apart and a mile apart, and no place close to a good rocky outcropping. A friend who works for MDFW still doesnt believe me :)... I should have ran the second one over with the lawnmower I was using at the time... PROOF! :)

The info on how 1.) likely they are to die if they go far from the island and 2.) how limited people interaction with them would be has me changing views... Then again, if global warming is correct, in 50 years it will be mute because they will have expanded range from PA to the North East given it will be warmer here all year than now - but that's a different debate.

Damn, I'm still belly laughing over your comment Bucktail. to funny.

Spike - you raise a neat point, if you actually want to see one of these, you cant on Zion... I guess you could take a fishing boat, cruise close to the shore with bino's and see if you can see one sunning on a rock back in the woods? Or, go for a walk at blue hills :)

From: Jebediah
27-Apr-17
Detected a flaw in my reasoning, or something: my thinking is that I don't want more critters around that can harm me. Like ticks, or coyotes, or venomous snakes. But what about bears? And also moose? They could certainly harm me. But I would like to see more of them. Oh well. Just more Jebediah pretzel logic.

From: hickstick
01-May-17
maybe if we had more rattlers around we'd have less rodents. less rodents = less lyme disease. (not to mention would probably lead to less clueless day hikers wandering through my stand setup at prime rut for fear of the snakes. LOL)

From: spike78
01-May-17
Marc, I hear that!

From: Tekoa
03-May-17
I haven't posted in a while but I'm with Spike and Hickstick on this one. There was a similar thread about rattlesnakes here a few years ago. Nothing has changed and I find it hard to understand how hunters whom I like to think of as conservationists can be against reintroduction and protection of a species that was always part of the local ecosystem. Is it really only about how many turkeys and deer we can kill?

Tekoa

From: Will
04-May-17
Tekoa - Great to hear from you man! Turkey hunting? Hope you had a good winter and the spring is kicking off well.

You raise a great point about conservation. Ultimately, "we" were a part of eagle reintroduction and help with things like protection of endangered species and wild spaces.

From: Tekoa
04-May-17
Will, One turk so last Saturday and I will be having the drumstick for lunch with fiddleheads in about 5 minutes. Took me a long time to find a good way to cook those legs but I finally did. Dozens of jakes around the house this year but few longbeards. Will be trying a few new areas to wrap up the season. It is always nice to walk some new land. Good luck. Tekoa

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