Summit Treestands
Riddle me this...
New Mexico
Contributors to this thread:
splitlimb13 09-Jun-17
smarba 09-Jun-17
smarba 09-Jun-17
splitlimb13 09-Jun-17
Dyjack 09-Jun-17
smarba 09-Jun-17
splitlimb13 09-Jun-17
HDE 09-Jun-17
HDE 09-Jun-17
mrelite 10-Jun-17
Retired-11-2000 10-Jun-17
splitlimb13 10-Jun-17
Buglmin 10-Jun-17
ohiohunter 12-Jun-17
splitlimb13 12-Jun-17
IntruderBN 13-Jun-17
ohiohunter 13-Jun-17
splitlimb13 13-Jun-17
smarba 13-Jun-17
earlyriser 13-Jun-17
splitlimb13 13-Jun-17
Shaft2Long 24-Jun-17
smarba 26-Jun-17
splitlimb13 28-Jun-17
ohiohunter 29-Jun-17
HDE 03-Jul-17
splitlimb13 05-Jul-17
bigbuckbob 07-Jul-17
LaGriz 09-Aug-17
From: splitlimb13
09-Jun-17
I AM wondering why in the world would a guy back pack in to some really tough country, 9-11 miles in, in Sept, looking to put down an elk that can leave you with 400-600 lbs of meat to haul out on YOUR BACK, BEFORE IT SPOILS. ??? With out a horse and mule pack out service arranged in the event they kill one.

I really do not like the fact an animal loses its life just to end up buzzard meat , due to the fact that a person does not care enough to realize this is not an ethical thing to do. I recently received a call from a guy who learned the hard way to set up a pack out in the event he is successful. Made me happy to see he learned from his mistake . At THE same time i think guys need to think ahead and not get caught in the moment.

Don't you all agree this is not the right thing to do ? Or is it just me?

Don't want to fight, would just like feed back.

From: smarba
09-Jun-17
Need to have a plan for meat extraction for sure. Farthest I've hauled is a little over 4 miles with a partner. But we had access to a stream where we could keep meat cool during the time it took us to make several trips to the truck where we had ice packed in coolers. Could probably do it a little farther than that if necessary, but 9-11 miles is a LONG way to haul meat unless it's on a very good trail. Still would need to have ability to keep meat cool.

That said, no way you're going to get 400-600 pounds of meat from an elk. As long as you're smart and debone everything you're looking at 200-300 for mature bulls. We are very diligent about salvaging all of the meat and the most meat we've ever gotten, which was from a HUGE bodied bull, was 315.

From: smarba
09-Jun-17
Even if you arrange for pack horses, you still need to account for keeping the meat cool duirng the time it takes for horses to become availble to reach you (i.e. if they are busy packing out for somebody else).

From: splitlimb13
09-Jun-17
I agree Smarba and I'm talking bone in cuz that's how we do it with horses no de-bone till after so usual around 400 with bone. For the record no trail , and log over log.

From: Dyjack
09-Jun-17
Don't get me wrong I agree with having a plan. But for the sake of conversation.

Could it be argued that it's more ethical if they debone it then carry it out on their backs? Less weight less trips. Less trips less time needed to cool meat. Plus no bone sour.

But there's more variables than just the distance as well. Late recovery on a bull, temperature fluctuation, rivers, and shade cover. If you're eleven miles back in a shady forest with very good cover I imagine your odds of meat salvage go up drastically. So a guy eleven miles in wide open plains will have a much harder time keeping meat than someone high elevation in a dark forest, right?

From: smarba
09-Jun-17
Correct Dyjack. A cool shady valley with a creek in the bottom will provide better cooling than a grassy mesa. Even with a tough partner it's going to take 2 trips. So need to account for how to manage the meat.

That might entail taking advantage of shade or a stream, ferrying the meat part way to truck where staging conditions are good and then going back for the next load, packing all night long, etc. But as splitlimb's opener post, a plan for meat extraction needs to be in place BEFORE skewering an elk.

It would be my personal opinion that the odds of hauling an elk out ~10-miles on one's back without losing any meat would be extremely difficult for 2 people, and perhaps impossible solo. There just aren't many places in NM Sept where meat can be kept cool enough to tackle that endeavor.

From: splitlimb13
09-Jun-17
Great points all the way around. A big part that comes into play is the amount of experience the person has who is hauling the meat out. And this particular country it is impossible for two men to get a bull elk out before the meat spoils and also before they themselves are physically incapable of even walking back for the second trip Mt. Last year they actually lost the entire bull was I believe I stated above. the frustrating thing is we see this every single year. So I guess my point is please hunt with in your physical and mental capability. There have been guys who mentally lose their stamina worse than their physical capability

From: HDE
09-Jun-17

HDE's embedded Photo
HDE's embedded Photo
This one was 1.6 miles from the truck, couldn't imagine 5. We skin and hang to cool asap as there may not be creek water nearby. We let hang overnight and debone and packout the next morning. This one was shot the day after Labor Day last year and packed out on Wed.

From: HDE
09-Jun-17

HDE's embedded Photo
HDE's embedded Photo

From: mrelite
10-Jun-17

mrelite's embedded Photo
mrelite's embedded Photo
It's hard to hide from the sun down in the Gila units, even trying to hang meat in the shade is tough for more than 30 minutes, let alone having the shade be cool enough to cool meat down.

I met some guys from Wisconsin that were getting ready to hike 6 to 8 miles in the wilderness and we asked them right away how the hell are they going to get the meat out before it spoils that far in, their response was "we got this, we do it all the time in Colorado" I warned them that the weather down here and going through the Middle fork canyon to the hills beyond isn't the same thing as hiking in the Colorado trees, we wished them the best of luck and off they went, don't know if they had to haul out meat but as I packed my bull out I was thinking I am so glad I wasn't 6 + miles in. I am sure there are people that can do it but the odds of meat spoiling is extremely high, we should always put a plan together that has a high success rate for meat extraction not a plan that has to have every star align to be successful.

Another thing that bothers me is when people only take the so called best parts and leave a bunch of the meat for the buzzards, I met some dude down there that actually admitted this, said he never goes back because it is often spoiled when he returns, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then the next year I went to Colorado and found a kill site that was just like what that guy described, what it means to me is that this issue is not isolated and needs to be addressed, here is a pic of what I found.

10-Jun-17
Lost my honey spot as a non resident when they changed % a few yrs back. Had a great bow place. So now I am MZ hunting in Dec. No problem with the heat. LOL.

From: splitlimb13
10-Jun-17
Wow Elite!! Hard to say but but that dude needs to be turned into the wardens dude! Those fools you're talking about are talking 6 miles , im talkimg 9-11 !!! Wherd they killed last year I wound even put my stock in there. Not bragging here guys buy me and my brothers can get into rough s ruff but I wouldn't there.

From: Buglmin
10-Jun-17
I agree, that needed to be turned into the F&G. It upsets me when guys brag about going in over 8 miles into the wilderness, shoot elk and only have a couple hundred pounds of meat from two bulls!! But they sure took the cape and head off the carcass above...

From: ohiohunter
12-Jun-17
If you want to choke stop by the mayhill store and listen to some of the stories about the customers comments during hunting season. You will gasp.

From: splitlimb13
12-Jun-17
As elite posted you bet your bottom dollar the cape and antlers are gone. This issue is horrible if you have no means of taking meat 11 miles out of the wilderness do not apply for the unit. And if you do apply don't hunt so far in.

From: IntruderBN
13-Jun-17
Things look doable on google earth to the online scouters.

From: ohiohunter
13-Jun-17
Being from back east there is one term most easterners are very unfamiliar with... "as the crow flies". Little do they know they are not crows.

From: splitlimb13
13-Jun-17
Intruder and Ohio, you both could not be more correct. Everything looks doable on a map or computer screen ,except when you get there and the canyon walls are torn down from floods and trails no longer exist ,the country is log over log falling down. Then the reality sinks in. Unless a person is straight up stupid.

From: smarba
13-Jun-17
Good point Ohio: "mountain miles" are different...

From: earlyriser
13-Jun-17
In my experience, there are a lot of "straight up stupid" people in this world.

From: splitlimb13
13-Jun-17
I tend to agree with early riser !!

From: Shaft2Long
24-Jun-17
Most people just shouldn't hunt elk. I know a lot of guys that routinely draw and kill and hear a lot of stories from them and other hunters about their hunting and meat retrieval practices. What I hear is appalling, wasteful and selfish stupidity.

I Routinely hear about how rough the country was and how bad ass these guys think they are for accessing it. Iit usually ends with "we just took the horns y no mas." Or "we just took the back straps and a quarter." "There's no way we were getting that bull out of there." Then why'd you shoot it?

I've helped pack meat with people who thought I was stupid for taking neck meat and brisket and said they always just leave that stuff. All of these people are able bodied and hunt with at least one partner but often have more than that around.

I think elk hunting is something a lot of guys want to do and talk about because it makes them feel macho but very few will actually put in the work to do it right. When most guys kill an elk, step one is usually to hike back to camp for a knife, game bags, a pack and some help. Honestly, if you're too lazy to carry around a knife, bags and a pack that's at least stout enough for a small load of meat on the first hike out, your too lazy to pack out an elk. Golf may be something these people should consider.

For years I've thought I probably should stop hunting elk. I've got herniated disks in my back some issues with my knees and eat way too many cheeseburgers. I didn't have to worry about as I didn't draw for 9 years. This year I played a game of spot and spook the herd for about 3 miles. If I'd shot one it would have worked out because I was hunting with two other guys. However, I hunt by myself 99.9 percent of the time and I thought if I'd hit one of those and been by myself it would have been a major chore. It convinced me, that for at least the foreseeable future, I'm not going to apply for elk anymore. I only add this last part to show I don't think I'm a supreme hunter that has a right to look down on anybody that doesn't do it my way. It was an honest assessment of where I'm at right now and I'm glad I didn't waste any meat before I figured it out.

From: smarba
26-Jun-17
Well said Shaft.

From: splitlimb13
28-Jun-17
Shaft,it's nice to hear some humbling words. I really do wish more people would triple think their actions before acting man!!! Kinda makes you wonder how man animals are wasted every year.???

From: ohiohunter
29-Jun-17
Reminds me there is a guy from midwest that posted on FB's elk addicts asking about gear for 10mi deep for his OTC first CO trip. I brought up spoilage and of course there are all kinds of guys who do this and the meat is fine... they fail to mention they are further north wear temps are considerably cooler. I'm sorry but solo, 10mi deep, sept heat = wasted meat... and most of it if not all.

From: HDE
03-Jul-17
10 miles in the mountains is a long flippin' way...

From: splitlimb13
05-Jul-17
10 miles in mild country is even a bad idea in Sept. To know there are "HUNTERS " that will be in that far in on foot in the nasty rugged stuff make my stomach turn. Sure it's public land,sure it's anybody's ball game, but at least respect the animals enough to know limits and stay within them. I may offend some with this statement if so I apologise in advance . IF A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE PACK ANIMALS OR ACCESS TO AN ON CALL PACKER (WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING) AND WANTS TO HUNT 7-15 MILES IN THE WILDERNESS HAS NO BUSINESS IN THERE.

From: bigbuckbob
07-Jul-17
Anyone every try a product called MeatSavR? Supposed to retard spoilage when sprayed on the meat.

From: LaGriz
09-Aug-17
It works both ways

In 2010 I rifle hunted in western Wyoming. A local guide took is girlfriend on her first elk hunt. She dropped a rag horn bull in the open on a south facing slope early on the opening day. They gutted the bull old school style and left it there in the sun. Returned later in the afternoon with an ATV and series of cables to try and winch the carcass up the steep grade. Problem was the bull was killed in a "no ATV use" section of the NF. The recovery team met a group of other hunters they thought might rat them out so they opted to leave the bull in the sun the rest of the day waiting for the others to leave. When finally recovered the bees, flies, and direct sun had taken a toll on the bull. I suspect the meat was bone sour, especially the side that was on the ground. Looked pretty discussing to say the least.

My Buddy and his two sons from Vermont killed a bull a few days later and they opted to pack it out that night. I had hunted elsewhere that day and returned to camp late only to hear the same locals put my friends down for being so foolish. I could not listen to the insults any longer and when out to meet the trio. They had the bull quartered up, bagged up, and in the truck by 10:30 PM. I told them to be prepared for criticism when we returned to the ranch. By the time we returned, our hosts were well liquored up (it's Wyoming) and full of them selves once again. My buddy took a few barbs from them and then retorted very dryly, "We Vermonters are kind of different, as a rule we don't care for fly-blow and spoiled meat". I thought I was going to choke! The next day it got ugly as I was told our 8 days of (paid for) lodging and DIY hunt was really only going to be 6 days. My buddy left his copy of the contract at home so we had little recourse. With 2 elk down it was decided that we should all leave. They had 3 fully guided hunters in camp with unfilled tags and it was a bit embarrassing for the outfit. Wasted wildlife sucks no matter what your zip code might be.

LaGriz

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