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Archery Season Date Change

I just got finished listening to an audio recording from the Fish and Game commission meeting where a representative from the Colorado Bowhunting Organization stated that they are in favor of dividing the elk archery season into 2 parts, before and after the black powder season. I find this a little odd that a state bowhunters organization would promote this. I thought at first I misunderstood it, but once re-listening to it, the rep even led a drumroll to announce the organizations decision. But now I see on a different post that the CBO never endorsed the plan that this rep spoke of. I am very concerned with this as I have members from family who are traveling here in September to black powder hunt while I bow hunt. Is this really what bowhunters want here or did the rep just make a mistake and give the wrong info? What gives?

Wow...That is NOT what I would want!!!

I received this from Roger Trudell today... Dear [[]]],

The CBA Board would like to provide an update to our members regarding the discussions pertaining to the archery/muzzlelader overlap in seasons. The survey of our members reflected that the majority of you favored keeping things as they are now, although we had a wide variety of opinions. The Board consensus is to support the current status of the seasons. It remains to be seen if that position is suitable to the Parks and Wildlife Commission. Several options have been openly discussed such as wearing blaze orange/pink during the overlap of the muzzleloader and archery seasons, and the possibility of splitting the archery season into two segments with the muzzleloader season in between. No changes have been officially proposed at this time. The one concept that seems to have the strongest support is not to have a reduction in archery season days. The CBA Board is totally supportive of this concept. We do not want to lose any bowhunting opportunity as is reflected in our Mission Statement. As this process proceeds we may need to consider some other alternatives that may be brought forward by the Parks and Wildlife Commission. We will keep our membership informed of what may be proposed in the future. In closing, please rest assured that the CBA is vigilant in keeping track of this issue. Thank you all for your support for the CBA and Colorado bowhunting.

Ok thanks, So why is there a difference from your letter to what they actually said at the meeting? While I was listening I couldn't believe my ears. If the speaker did make a mistake than what's the chance the commission that decides the seasons will remember this and implement it? Also if they do this, will it happen this year? A lot of people already made plans. The way the rep was talking he was using this years calendar at the meeting.

There a thread 2 post below titled "CBA Muzzleloader Survey" with 100+ post all about it. Read up

OK I looked through that post and don't get it. They say one thing at the commissioners meeting and a totally different thing in the letter. Sounds like this group is a bunch of politicians. Say one thing and actually do another. Not a good group to be in.

I think some wires got crossed in the development of the CBAs position and the delivery at that meeting. I'm guessing the current release is accurate and the CBA will be supporting no change currently. If a change does happen, taking effect this season would be extremely unlikely. Odds are it would be at the next 5 year season structure unless something legislative happens and they push for it sooner.

What group would you recommend being in?

kadbow...Same as current.

Yes, I've had issues with ML hunters (shot at an old forest service sign between the bull and me...didn't know either one of us was there) so I MAY wear orange this year.

I wonder who exactly is pushing for this and why it is such a big deal? I mean why so much time effort and energy on something that is a nonissue?

coelker, the family of the young man that was killed by the muzzle-loader hunter is pushing for this.

And pushing at the legislative level if i am correct

This sounds like suggesting we change everything for everyone because of a 1 in a million (or so) accident. The guy that shot the son should be punished and not the masses. Accidents do happen and you can't legislate away stupidity. Keep the seasons the same and remind your friends to always know what they are shooting at.

We have often come back home for the majority of the muzzy season, to regroup & resupply. Others years we hunted straight through, with only the occasional shot in the distance. Personally I'd be thrilled to see an extra 9 days added onto the end of the season. In recent years, the rut seems to be just getting going as the season ends. But that's just me. I can see where groups that are doing both muzzy & bow would be dismayed. We've played that game in the past. It would also put a near end to giving the elk a break (to rut) between end of archery and first bull hunting ( 2nd rifle-?)

I sent that letter from Roger Trudell to my friends at the CPW. They also suggest I forward it to the wildlife commission, which I did and they did as well. And no,.... no one from the CBA ever made contact with anyone there that the split season recommendation was an error. My friends at CPW were quite surprised at this original recommendation of the split season. They are all waiting for the CBA to make an official retraction at the next meeting because to them it is still the official stance. I hope CBA clears this up at the next commission meeting so they don't look like a bunch of domestic turkeys.

I would have hoped they would have sent a retraction right away. The CPW and Commission should be expecting one because the proposal at the meeting wasn't workable once you look at the calendar and I'm sure any interested CPW staff or Commissioner would realize that just like many of us here did. The CBA quickly clarified with members and a copy to the CPW and Commission seems like the thing to do. Maybe it went to someone and was just shelved until the next meeting since no action would happen until an official proposal was presented?

Stuff like this in Aug and September is poor timing since everyone wants to get in the woods.

I personally spoke to Commissioner John Howard last week. I didn't speak to him as a CBA rep, but as a round table delegate. All the commissioners are aware of Tom's condition. I walked away from the discussion feeling confident the commission is aware the CBA position is support for status quo. I also expressed my personal support for status quo.

Mason...CBA Chairman, Mike Yeary, made contact with CPW Director immediately following the meeting and reiterated the CBA's official position (same position that was articulated in the letter to members from Roger Trudell). While obviously some CPW Staff may not have been privy to the discussion between CBA Chairman and CPW Director following the testimony, I assure you that those that are pertinent to the decision making were presented with an official and clarified CBA position. This issue has been stated many times and everyone understands the situation and circumstances regarding it and the steps taken to make sure everything is as it should be. Time to let it rest for now.

I'd say if we were to keep the same amount of days to hunt (won't happen) I would be all for the split.

Hello Mason I have Question for You. Are You a CBA- Member? I am Moose Hunting ! That's what you should be DOING! Thanks T-3

Hello Mason I have Question for You. Are You a CBA- Member? I am Moose Hunting ! That's what you should be DOING! Thanks T-3

Sir, I am a member. I joined at the last jamboree. I am done hunting this season, I filled my deer tag last weekend. I am grateful for your service to CBA. I brought up this issue when I listened to the commission meeting audio in which you clearly stated that it was the CBA's position to recommend a split season. This was not an option on the survey. Sure by taking all the questions together one could make a far fetched conclusion that this could be a solution, but this would be a stretch. Then, within days, I received an official letter from a board member that the official CBA position is for no change. This is in contradiction to the statements you made to the commission. I called two friend who are managers at CP&W and asked if they or the commission had received Roger Trudell's letter of official CBA position. They said they have not and that senior staff and the wildlife commission itself had not received this official position. They suggested that I forward the Trudell letter to them, and they would in turn forward it to all of the senior staff and they recommended that I forward it to the wildlife commission. They gave me the commisions personal emails. I received responses back from the stating that this was the first they heard of this and that CBA needs to clarify their position at the next commission meeting or that the statements that you made were still the CBA's position in standing. So despite bowhunters (Rose) post that the CBA chairman had made contact with the head of CPW to state the CBA's intentions, it is still being denied that any contact was ever made according to staff level personnel and commission members. I think there is a grave disconnect here. One side is either not being truthful or has been misinformed and bowhunters will bear the burden of this misspoken position.

Mason, perhaps the best way to solve your concerns is for you to call or contact CBA Chairman, Mike Yeary, and voice your concerns to him. He can give you the information in his own words on what transpired before, during and after. His info is in the magazine...if you don't have it, shoot me a pm and I will send it your way.

And congrats on your deer!! :)

So, at the next meeting will the CBA be officially supporting the status quo?

Hello All and Mason- I can Tell you Have NOT LISTEN TO JODY KENNDYS CPW- REPORT SAYING- COLORADO BOWHUNTERS ASSOCIATION and the MUZZLELOADER WANTED TO KEEP THE STATUS QUO ON SEASON-OVERLAP! The CBA has had Meetings with CPW - STARTING IN APRIL ! READ MY REPORT IN NEWSMAGAZINE FOR APRIL and MAY, JUNE AND JULY AND AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER! STATING CBA POSITION! STATUS QUO! I HAVE 6 FACE MEETING THE CPW AND THE ONLY OTHER PERSON FROM THE CBA WAS MIKE YEARY! PLUS NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS WITH DIRECTOR BOB BROSCHEID ALL 4 REGIONAL CPW MANAGERS , JODY KENNDY, DANILE ISENHART, PLUS ATTENDING ALLCBA DIRECTORS MEETINGS! COUNTLESS TEXT MESSAGE! BOB BROSCHEID CHALLENGED the CBA TO SEE IF WE CAN COME UP WITH OPITIONS TO GIVE TO COMMISSION! PLAN A STATUS QUO, PLAN B SEE MY REPORT! AND CBA AND THE BOARED DISCUSSED IN THE AUGUST MEETING! ALSO THE CBA HAD 3 PLAN! START THE MUZZLELOADING FIRST 9 DAY SEASON FIRST THEN GIVE THE ARCHERY HUNTERS 30 DAY SEASON WHICH I AM ALL 4! AND WOULD NO CONFLICT BETWEEN THE 2 HUNTINNG GROUPS AN NO CHANCE OF A PERSON BEING SHOOT BY MUZZLOADER! THANKs - T-3.

Hello And MASON, WE SENT A SURVEY WHICH I READ 337 CBA REPONSES I TALKED MIKE YEARY as I DROVE DOWN TO TRINIDAD, BUY MY SELF WHICH A FEAT BY IT SELF I COULD NOT GET ANY BODY ELSE TO FILL IN FOR ME! BEING PAIN MED I HAD NOT TAKE SO COULD DRIVE! I ARRIVED AT 9:00 AND PUT TOGETHER MY REPORT ON OPIONS TO THE COMMISSION. I WORK ON THE REPORT TILL 4;30 in WEEDING OUT THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY! I REROWTE MY REPORT 4 TIMES TO CLEAN UP THE AIRS IN AN THE SPEELING AND TO PUT IN THE FORMATE THAT IS PROTCALL TO THE COMMMISSION! SEE AND HEAR MY REPORT! IGAVE MY REPORT TO THE COMMISSION! HOPE YOU HEARD CHAIRMAN PRIBL COMMENT TO ME AND THE CBA ! SAYING THANKS TOM AND CBA AND ITS FORWARD THINKING! AN DEICATION TO THE COMMISSION TO HELP THE MAKE A DECISION ON THIS ISSUE! AFTER THE MEETING I MET WITH ALL THE COMMISSIONERS, CPW STAFF AND SAT DOWN AND TALK AND EAT WITH DIRECTOR BOB BROSCHEID AT THE BBQ, AND THE PERSON THEY ALL ASKED HOW AM IDOING WITH MY CANCER I TOLD THEM I HAD MEETING WITH MY DOCTER. AUGUST 2nd AND HE TOLD ME AND MY WIFE IT COULD BE ANY DAY NOW I COULD DIE! I BROKE DOWN AND CRIED I LITTLE AND TOLD MY WIFE I WILLLLL BATTLE TO END! SORRY GOT GO MOOSE HUNTING! THANKS T-3

NO Moose to Today But getting Closer! God Bless, Thanks T-3

Tom thank you for standing up for us bowhunters. Keep fighting for yourself and your wife. Good luck beating down the cancer and finding Bullwinkle! God Bless you.

IT Has Been an Honor to Serve As Liason for CBA to Colorado Parks and Wildlife in Over 6 years I have so of the Most Amazing People that have Deicated there Lives to Protect Wildlife. The Friendships I had with these Men an Women and Memories are Priceless. The Cancer in Me is a Blessing. Because God says you have to have a Burden to get a Blessing! Had a close in counter with bull an a Cow Moose today. The wind wrong it was 30 yard shoot a little to far with recurve so I passed She will be there Tomorrow. Thanks -3

T3, I really like the idea of starting muzzleloader before the 30 day archery season. Alot of folks have complained over the years about the overlap, but here is a solution that makes sense. There will be some detractors on this suggestion too, but at least the CBA is working on a solution, instead of just punching a keyboard.

Thanks for the dedication on staying with this, especially after the criticism (some from me). Get some rest knowing that you are doing your best on this issue.

No way to fit separate seasons in before the quiet period without losing days or weekends. So, I'll stick with status quo. If we get to the point where it looks like we will be losing something no matter what, then pushing for a solution that minimizes our loss would be prudent.

Hello Stix, If still here I am going to propose Plan C in the Next 5 year Season Structure Big Game as Citizen Petition. Here the Advantages 1. We as Bowhunters will never have any conflicts with Muzzloaders again! 2. We will never worry about being SHOT BY A MUZZELLOADER AGAIN! 3. We never worry about wearing BLAZE ORANGE or PINK during Archery Again! 4. Muzzleloader will get there 9 day Season No Conflicks with Archery Hunters! 5. Archery hunters will get 30 Archery Season! 6. Archery Hunter will have Competition in Field with Muzzleloaders! 7. Archery Hunters get the VERY BEST TIME of the YEAR to Hunt ELK and DEER! 8. ELK will get 5 weeks from the END of Muzzleloading Season to Do THERE MATING Before the first Rifle Season! 9 Archery Hunters will less Problem Deal with General Public! 10. Archery will get same number of Weekends as Before! 11. Archery Hunters will get cooler Temperature to deal with The MEAT! I Tom J. Behunin am ALL for THAT PLAN! FORWARD THINKING! THANK YOU STIX. T-3.

I would love to see a seprate Muzzleloader season, that hunting impliment getting it's own 9 day season would elevate the potential of any type of negative interaction. The 9 days out of archery season would be tacked on at the end of season for archery hunters, thus no loss of hunting days, cooler weather and potentialy some of the best hunting. Just my thoughts.

Is what i hear is correct no hunting with muzzleloader? I have a brother who cannot bowhunt because of medical problems and i love bowhunting and we get to hunt together for over 20 years. I guest he could get medical release from doctor and send to cpw and shoot a crossbow. Thats one disadvancage.

I am with you T3, great thinking! My best to you on this! There will be folks who don't like it for a host of reasons, but I think it will be looked at favorably by most if it comes to pass. I would also check if other conservation organizations will get on board with your proposal. I can help with that.

T3 i will keep you and family in my prayers and good luck on your moose hunt. I

I'm good with the 30 day season, only thing is that drops archery from 5 weekends a year to only 4. And in 2019 that would mean archery ends on Oct. 10th, give or take a day. Will the commish go for that? or will archers lose a week there?

IF, we could separate it like that, AND grantee a 30 day season, I'd give up a weekend.

If ml starts week earlier than archery current start date, nothing has to change.

Other recreational interests and the cattleman's association will not be amenable to big game hunting beginning any earlier than it does now. Archery season used to start in mid August but the cattleman's association won that round.

I'm not sure muzzleloaders would be excited to trade a prime bugling week for a hot week in August and having one less weekend as part of their season.

Well, here's a bit of disclosure that you all deserve to know.

I am a member of the Colorado State Muzzle Loaders Association and currently serve as a board member. I am NOT the wildlife rep so for that reason I have kept this to myself and kept my posts in a non official mode. I will continue to present in that way.

I AM NOT a troll. I'm a commited bow hunter and have been for over sixty years. I also enjoy hunting with the muzzle loader but moreso enjoy shooting matches and events with friends.

At our last board meeting we voted to have our wildlife rep draft a letter of full support for the CBA position of "no change". We considered what our approach would be if the CBA made a change in their position and decided that we would reconsider our support if the CBA made a change that would not be acceptable to the CSMLA.

We did not discuss the potential changes in position on the part of the CBA that would prompt a change in position on the part of the CSMLA but my own personal thoughts on it are that the CSMLA would probably not be supportive of moving the ML season into August.

Once again, MY COMMENTS HERE ARE NOT AN OFFICIAL CSMLA POSITION. It's just myself personally trying to shed a bit of light on the issue from my own perspective.

Good to know... Status Quo is always the best and safe option.... Now will commission feel that way....

Separate seasons would be my preference but only without anyone losing days, weekends or being able to hunt when they are bugling good. Since that means going too far into October for the CPW, status quo is my preference.

Funny (to me) to see the idea of pushing ML ahead of Archery being presented as a win-win... although it WOULD probably chase off a lot of the opportunist in-liners who couldn't give a rat's ass about muzzleloading and just want to be able to hunt the rut. Of course, that would just push them into Archery, whereupon they would all suddenly develop crippling shoulder injuries, I'd expect.

JMO, it would probably make more sense to shift ML to the tail end of Archery and let them hunt during what is currently the "break" between seasons - I'd think that would be the best/least disruptive alternative, because ML (IIRC) is the only statewide season that's 100% draw, so the impact of those hunters can be moderated by quota.

But what I would prefer to that is an extra-early any-weapon, by-lottery, cow-only season to achieve the harvest objectives, and eliminate the bonus cow tags for Archery. Those seem to do more harm in terms of hunting pressure than good in terms of population reduction (and I say that as a non-resident Native who would VERY MUCH prefer to be able to run into town for a second tag in the event that I somehow filled the first one). I just think there is way too much potential for guys to hunt for a bull on a cow-tag and go buy a bull tag after the kill. If they don't get a bull, then there's always a rifle season to try again, which is a luxury that an honest bowhunter does not have.

"probably chase off a lot of the opportunist in-liners who couldn't give a rat's ass about muzzleloading and just want to be able to hunt the rut" An easy way to fix that is to make ML a side lock cap or flint, iron sight, primitive season and leave it where it is.

Changing ML to side locks only is far from "easy" it was tried just after in-lines came on the market and failed. Now that in-lines have been a part of that season for around 25-30 years, I expect it would be even harder.

My guess is the only change to ML equipment regs if there are any, will be allowing pellitized powder, sabots and scopes at some point. Pretty rare to see things go the other way.

Two of my Sons have taken up BP elk hunting but I still bow hunt. One is a Co. Resident and two of us are not. We always hunt together for a week. Separate seasons would eliminate spending time together hunting elk. I hope they leave it the way it is now. PD

Hello All, Had hunt my rear- end off, But got My Cow Moose Today at 1:00. I am tired that battle is over! Thanks T-3,

Whats the diffrence between guys hunting with a caplock and an inline? I know some OLD caplocks that would outshoot any inline made today creedemore for one. My inlines use #11 caps sights that are 1800s technology and will outshoot any of todays production inlines. So im not sure what good it would do to back muzzleloaders up to older technology. The only muzzleloaders today that hold a real and true advantage over the days of old are the smokeless that are illegal and i hope always will be in Colorado.

There is a reason modern inlines are so popular. Going backwards on technology rules isn't happening so the effect inlines do or don't have on season participation doesn't matter.

Congrats on your moose T3!

OK I got it, in lines not going away any sooner than compounds.... On another note, there is a thread going on about a guy who got hot with an arrow while bow hunting here. I hope that situation does not add fuel to the "bow hunters must wear orange or pink" campaign.

T3 congrats on your moose!

PECO: That nothing new. It has happened in the past. One rotten apple in the barrel ruins the rest!

Hello All, Just got Back from Nebraska with my two sons and only grandson, the Good Lord Blessed us Again with Two Beautiful Animals I with an Antelope and My Son Steven took a nice 4 point Buck! God Bless AMERCIA! The Home of the FREE And The BRAVE! THANK YOU ALL my Fellow Bow Hunters I Invite you All to COLORDO PARKS and WILDLIFE to SHARE in my good fortune. Oct. 6 at 6:00 COME TRY SOME MOOSE MEAT, I will Feed ALL That will come I HAVE PLENTY! RSVP ON THIS IF WILL COME! The CBA IS having its monthly board meeting. GOD BLESS ALL, THANKS T-3.

The CBA is having its monthly board meeting, Oct. 6th, at the CPW headquarters in Denver, 3030 Broadway just off of I-25. The meeting will start at 6:30 pm but Tom is inviting all to attend and share in his good luck. A moose meat feast, a bite or two at least. I will be there. Paul

Thanks Paul, Also I Tom BEHUNIN will donate a Grizzly 660 Rhino and Raffle Off at Meeting! So I am Donating it to the CBA to Raise some Money! Since I stepped down as the Liaison between COLORDO PARKS AND WILDLIFE and The COLORADO BOWHUNTERS ASSO. in AUGUST to the We need another Volunteer take My PLACE WOMAN OR MAN! GOD BLESS! T-3

I think it's 6060 Broadway.

Tom, I plan to attend. I told the CBA chairman I would be glad to help with liaison duties to the extent I can - given my time constraints with family, work and round table meetings. I'd invite others to volunteer as well, knowing it is an elected position.

Thanks for the generous donations, I'll try to bring my moose meat and we can compare taste.

Tom is the ATV for this meeting or the CBA banquet next march? And yes, 6060 Broadway, Denver. Thanks

Hello Paul I will be giving 4 ATV AWAY 1 for Oct 6th meeting, 1for Dec meeting, 1for Paul at the Banquet! and One for the Jamboree! With MY Condition I cannot ride them anymore! Say 20 a Ticket! Thanks ALL God Bless! T-3

Dear "Archery Seasons Date Change" Threaders, I am not sure Tom B. will be at the meeting on Friday, as he is in the hospital today. There is hope he will get discharged soon. When we were together over the past week, he discussed donating an ATV (Grizzly) to the CBA for the 2017-18 Banquet in Fort Collins. I am not sure how we would pull off a raffle in just a few days (CBA meeting this Friday). Also, we have have to get approval from the State Gaming Commission on any major raffle item. I hate to speak on Tom's behalf, but I am going to try to talk him out of the moose meat for this Friday. I don't know how he could get out of the hospital, get to the game processor and get it all cooked up for us by Friday. I am going to visit him tomorrow so will try to update out before Friday. By the way, he made an amazing shot on that cow at 21 yards (top of the heart) - she went 37 yards. I have most of it on video which I am editing for his friends to view. RJT

Dear "Archery Seasons Date Change" Threaders, I am not sure Tom B. will be at the meeting on Friday, as he is in the hospital today. There is hope he will get discharged soon. When we were together over the past week, he discussed donating an ATV (Grizzly) to the CBA for the 2017-18 Banquet in Fort Collins. I am not sure how we would pull off a raffle in just a few days (CBA meeting this Friday). Also, we have have to get approval from the State Gaming Commission on any major raffle item. I hate to speak on Tom's behalf, but I am going to try to talk him out of the moose meat for this Friday. I don't know how he could get out of the hospital, get to the game processor and get it all cooked up for us by Friday. I am going to visit him tomorrow so will try to update out before Friday. By the way, he made an amazing shot on that cow at 21 yards (top of the heart) - she went 37 yards. I have most of it on video which I am editing for his friends to view. RJT

By the way, he used a recurve! I doubted he could pull it back all the way and he has only shot about 40 practice arrows all summer due to the cancer. I guess the 20,000 shots done in the 10 years prior to this create muscle memory and confidence. RJT

Congrats to Tom!

The Machine brings up an important fact, above, concerning a Colorado Raffle. A person or organization needs a Raffle License and number to conduct a raffle , concerning what ever item. ATv, boat, house, etc. At this point the CBA or Tom does not have the License to do, SO, and promise of a raffle at the CBA BOD meeting, ie, a ATV, can not be conducted at this time.

Tom's generosity is humbling for sure as he is a very good man with a lot on his shoulders at this time. My prayers to Tom and his family. Paul

Best wishes to Tom in his struggle. Stay strong, Tom. You have family and a lot of friends supporting you.

Back to the topic - the "quiet period" gained strength after the collared studies proved early season hunters push the elk down onto private land. When there were 14K bowhunters it wasn't such a problem. Now its getting worse every year... I have a copy of great research paper on the learned behavior of elk, which proves that older cows teach younger cows to do this at a certain time of year now, (as well as bulls learning that bugling brings in humans, but that's another topic). There is no way they'll change the season to end so close to the rifle seasons, when they are concerned about rifle harvest as it is with the continued aging of the overall hunter demographic.

So the only real viable alternatives in the real world are A) Status Quo, or B) Split season of some sort within a 30 day window where somebody loses opportunity - most likely bowhunters.

I like all the resentment towards muzzleloaders. What if archery was given the month of august (1-31). They could have it all to themselves, but could you imagine the whining? I also think the "quiet period" is over hyped. Utah, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho all have seasons during this time with no real ill effects to the herd or bull quality.

Nice moose, congrats to Tom and thanks for his service.

How about an auction for the ATV? Maybe post a few photos here with any other relevant information such as year, CC's, hours/miles and maintenance and we get started?

Roger, please read my post above concerning any raffle. Maybe in the future. Paul@the fort.

"early season hunters pushed the elk onto private property". Well lets put this into prospective and not give the impression that all of the elk were pushed onto private property. The DOW White Elk study in the north and south units of parts of the Flat Top Wilderness area, concluded that a portion of the elk move to private property when bow hunting season started. Some electronic collared elk, not gps devices. . So what percentage did the model conclude that actually moved. If I remember correctly, in the north and south units, less than 20-25% of the elk actually migrated to surrounding private properties. That still left 75-80% of the elk on public land. The following years, the DOW concluded and with the support of local adjacent ranches, a change needed to be accomplished, and the units in the Flat Tops went from OTC to limited draw. Years later, the DOW used the same " evidence/information, from this White Study, to change units 54, 55, and 551 from OTC to limited draw with a great "push/recommendation" from the local Cattleman's Association.. I do not believe in both cases, a follow up study was ever conducted to show that by limiting bow hunter numbers , that actually reduced the number of early migrating elk.

I agree, with Lou, if there is a change from status quo, there will be a group that will lose hunting time. While the State ML association is small, (less than 600 total members,) it still has a voice as well as all of the other resident and non resident ML rifle hunters. And if some non beneficial seasons is recommended, they will react. Any recommended change to the Commission, needs to be coordinated with both the ML and bow hunter user groups so they are on the same page. And that is only the first step. Once the CPW staff reviews any issue and recommendations, and after they conduct their statewide CPW regional meetings, they also will have input into the process and usually the Commission follow the staff recommendations. I highly doubt they would recommend any change and maintain the current 30 day Early Season, which involves the 9 day ML rifle season. The last time this same issue/possible recommendation came up to move the ML season in a different place, the DOW at that time, stated they were not willing to make any change and that if this was a big issue, they would recommended that the bow hunters would get the first 21 days and the ML season, the last 9 days. What other states do to manage their wildlife, their big game hunters, and their season structure, is really not a concern and according to a recent CPW survey/public meetings, of Colorado's hunters, the survey indicated that the majority of Colorado hunters are satisfied with the current season structures. No doubt, bow hunters who have an elk license has increased. In the year, 1989 there were 14,500 resident and non resident bow hunters; today, 44,000 with 19,500 being non residents. I understand that both the CBA, and the ML association recommend Status Quo as the majority of their member voted that way who took the time to answer their surveys.

This whole issue of the split stems from the accident two years ago, that ended up with a young bow hunter killed by a ML rifle hunters who took a "sound shot". The youth parents stated later, "we are going to do all we can to have the ML and bow season split" so this does not happen again",-- though the Wildlife Commission or the State Legislation if needed. In a meeting between the CBA and the CPW staff, the staff listed a number of "possible" recommendations to be considered, one being a split and one being the wearing of hunter orange. Again, this issue only came up because of the accident. I hope to hear more about this at the cBA BOD meeting this Friday at 6 pm in Denver at the CPW Hdq, 6060 Broadway. First hand info is the best.

I suggested an auction Paul.

Edit - it's not only about pushing them into private property (in the North Park units I'd guess the percentage is much higher, from personal experience in both private and public). But there is also concern from the CPW about early season hunters pushing elk back into public hellholes out of reach of the aging rifle hunters, which as a demographic average around 50 year's old now and growing older (the average) by almost one year every year. Like tag creep - it's "age creep".

Compare the number of bowhunters plus ML hunters in CO with any of those other states Orion mentioned. I just returned from a month-long elk bowhunt in WY in a general unit. The few resident "bowhunters" hunted a couple weekends or maybe the first week, then went home to wait for rifle season. There was virtually no bowhunting pressure on the elk after that except from a few NRs. Diametrically opposite what happens in our state.

To add and I agree with Lou, currently in 2016 there were statewide 12,362 ML Limited draw and OTC draw, rifle permits give out. Their success % was 17% so add the 44,000 bow hunters and the 12,000 ML hunter for a total of 56,000 hunters, then add in the rifle bear hunters, the grouse hunters, the ATV and bikes, hikers, 4x4ers, big game viewers during September. That is a lot of pressure on the resource, land, water, and wildlife which creates more issues with how to manage all of that and give each user group, hunters, ranchers, other outdoor users, their "fair" share of time in the field.

Folks, I visited Tom in the hospital tonight. He will not be able to attend tomorrow's meeting. The moose tasting will hopefully occur at the December CBA Board meeting. The ATV raffle/auction will be at the Fort Collins CBA Awards Banquet in March, 2018. Good luck with the upcoming rut and seasons. RJT

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