Contributors to this thread:
I haven't researched it closely, because I don't really care about deer hunting in MN; but it appears they've banned baiting in that state. It'll will be interesting to see how many more states begin to follow suit and join the non-baiting states. It's all about CWD by the way...
Cattle salt licks will spread more CWD than anything else.
Have facts on that, Forest? I'm just beginning another article on CWD, and that would add greatly to it.
Post is sorta true...
"Deer baiting, illegal in Minnesota since 1991, continues to be the
No. 1 violation among big-game hunters in the state, according to the DNR. In baiting, hunters typically place corn, apples, pumpkins or other food near their deer stands in hopes of attracting a deer."
Colorado Wyoming and states like that with a lot of CWD and have had it for years and baiting has never been legal there. The University of Wyoming I believe is done the most studies on it
I baiting is made illegal in Kansas they will double non resident rifle tags to make up for lose in archery tags. Keep pushing you'll love it.
I thought KS just offered X amount of NR permits, and they decided to apply for archery, black powder or center fire? Iowa still gets tons of interest from bowhunters.
That's all hyperbole Forest, bring something solid to the table for once. "A" fact is that baiting congregates ungulates, which can and does lead to the spread of diseases.
Why take the chance? What is your motive? Will you be honest?
Well is it Frank? Where in KS or OK is there no "ag"?
"I baiting is made illegal in Kansas they will double non resident rifle tags to make up for lose in archery tags. Keep pushing you'll love it." While the grammar of this statement is 2nd grade level, the jest of it may be on par with Kindergarten.
It could certainly be passed at a food plot, or a full section of milo or corn. Also on licking branches, under oak trees dropping some of the first acorns of the year. But few things concentrate deer more than a feeder, especially a gravity feeder, a pile of corn on the ground, mineral site... No matter what the laws say, the spread is not going to be stopped. It's spreading across plenty of states with anti-baiting laws. I remain neutral, but am gathering facts for another article.
I believe that we cannot lose any more rights no matter what it is. We are in a fight and if we do not band together we will all lose. That's my motive what is yours???
I think What Forest is saying..is..
If ks bans baiting,. many nr bow/crossbow hunters will stop using archery equipment,..they will apply for firearms permits because without the bait, they cant get deer close enough for a shot.
I just see many people planting food plots.. people who cant afford the foodplot equipment will hire custom plot planters..
Again i ask..are we just banning feeders and placing feed on the ground in one 30ft area..or pile?
Many non-hunters have feeders in their yard to attract wildlife so they can simply enjoy watching the animals.
Is it ok to bait turkeys and not deer.
I can plant corn..raise it to maturity, then swath and roundbale it...leaving shattered corn everywhere..totally legal
Or raise the corn as a buffer strip and then brush hog it...same effect...then entire area can be covered with a firearm..
I would like to ban trail cameras..especially the wireless cell cams..and drones..
Ive seen bucks eating from a bird feeder...the kdwpt will charge that homeowner with a baiting violation..
If a rancher places a salt block in his pasture, is it now illegal to hunt that tainted area?
If the goal is to stop baiting only deer, into a small area, or to a gravity feeder,..is it permissable to spread bait across a 100y area..much like a food plot?
Perhaps The only answer is to ban all forms of food, either planted, poured, or cast,..which is used for the sole purpose of attracting deer.?? No hunting fruit bearing trees such as apples or pears,..no food plots,..
Then...some states allow bait,..but in limited quantities, or it must be entirely removed weeks before the season opens..
Im open to suggestions...just so many differing scenarios.
What I call Elitest hunters are the reason we'll never be united as hunters. Their way is the only way and won't respect or support other people's ways of hunting or enjoyment. We shouldn't worry how somebody else hunts or condemn it. This is the reason some states have banned deer hunting with hounds, baiting, blood tracking hounds, lighted nocks, or do not allow certain types of weapons,etc. I don't run deer with dogs, shoot a crossbow, used lighted nocks, etc.... but I don't let it bother me if someone else does. It's like golf, I'm not out their to compete with the other man(the challenge is the course), I'm in the woods to test myself against the deer. What difference does it make to me how someone else harvests an animal if done so under the laws and bag limits? I can promise you this, the anti's will stand together regardless of their opinions on matters because all that matters to them is passing their agenda. We as hunters should NOT be lobbying for things that will decrease our numbers as hunters, but fighting for everyone's rights to be in the woods even if you think their way of doing something is stupid. The anti's think any way of killing an animal is immoral, inhumane, and should be stopped. Using your skills alone to harvest a mature whitetail buck is challenging and impressive. I just don't think one should look down or publicly ridicule a brother outdoorsman for using things that increases their opportunity at a harvest. I read that entire exchange on baiting in the other thread......very sad to read as a hunter.
Sorry to get on the soapbox, I just felt like throwing that in...
I think I understand what you are saying "doc", but you are from TX right? Would you say that origin might sway a response one way or another? Doesn't matter really, I'm quite positive you have the ability to state your own reasons and observations.
Something stood out to me in your refutation..."I'm in the woods to test myself against the deer".
I think that's why we are all out there, in theory, but some have taken to a method that offers no test. I was brought up one way, I reckon many here the same...maybe not in TX though? It should in fact be a test you're right, not a "given", not instant gratification, not as though we were waiting on a certain "one" because we have him named and trained.
We "as hunters" should stand up for what we believe is right, so shall we have others determine what's "right" for us? I for one don't want to be seen in the same light as someone who trains an animal with sustenance to come to a pre-determined spot day after day, night after night, just to say that I "got one" or to put another "rack on the wall". Surely everyone here realizes how that practice is perceived by those who've never hunted?
Add-in the already present and growing concern of spreading disease via baiting, and you have a potential catastrophe on your hands. It won't matter who was brought up to hunt or brought up to bait...there will be nothing left to chase.
Don't be sad, it's not too late to make a difference!
P.S. That's absolutely not your motive Forest, I'll give you another chance...think about your answer and just tell the truth.
Baiting and disease won't be the end of hunting. As are numbers fall, and hunters refuse to take antis seriously, the doomsday clock runs a bit faster. Look at all of their victories -- wolves in the Rockies, closures on mountain lion and bear seasons or tactics, grizzlies in BC, the anti-fur movement, outlawing leghold traps, pressuring the USFWS into Africa's business, getting airlines to refuse to work with hunters, setting the presidence of closing a hunting contest because it's "gambling." I could go on and on while 90 percent of hunters pound their chests and yell "who cares what those azzholes think. Puck 'em!" Meanwhile, we all have our agendas that we twist to serve our own purpose, and try to convince others it's best for hunting.
why would where I'm from sway my stance to support all deer hunters? They've already taken out deer hunting with dogs here in Texas, but I support their right to do it in Louisiana, Arkansas too. I never knew it was a given that a mature whitetail buck will come to a corn pile. In fact, I've seen very few mature bucks at a pile or feeder, and those are typically at night. As far as the congregating at feeders? They gather at ponds for water...,,, ban ponds. They gather at food plots......ban them too. Anything man made should be banned right??? The concern of Cwd is exactly that, a concern. How do you keep the deer naturally spread out since them gathering up is your concern?
I'm not sad, that conversation was sad......as is this one. Someone supporting your God Given rights and you talking down to them. I still support any man's right to hunt. Heck Sito I might would even buy you a beer if we met.
If we don't stand up for your fellow hunters it won't matter how you were brought up, whether to bait, rattle or smoke pole....... as there will be deer that you're not allowed to chase.
Have a nice evening, sito
I can hear you loud and clear Mike, but you and I also know that numbers of folks in the outdoors has taken a bit of a boost recently(not as a % of "yore", but in the last 10yrs YOY)...what drives those folks?
Not a test, It's a calling of the "wild" in my opinion and that's all I have is my opinion.
Each of us gets to choose...I won't choose for you, and you sure as hell won't choose for me ;?)
Totally my motive Kyle don't pretend like you know who I am. I hunt all over the world 80% of it is not over bait. I am for all legal methods of hunting. You're the type of person that could actually do some good for bow hunting if you could just see past a small issue and look at the larger ones. I agree with the elitist term those guys are killing r-sport. I agree 100% with the guy from Texas
Dr we used to be united as hunters in this state. It all changed in the 90's we we first gave a special season to the "Muzzle Loader" elitists. That is when it all started. Then 2 years later all hell broke loose. SitO is spot on when he mentions your location. Kansas has become "Texas Like". Back in the day, I don't ever remember bow hunters ever bickering about regulations. We were a close nit group. Then came the cornholing of resident bow hunters. Back in the late 70's, 80's, and early 90's I had never known or ever heard of anyone whatsoever putting out a pile of corn.
For the record, I'm not a doctor.
I'm surprised you are neutral, writer. If you admit that feeders congregate deer, and that CWD is spreading and a concern I would think that would lead you to be against baiting. While you say that it spreads in states with baiting bans, wouldn't you agree that the potential transmission rate would be much greater in states where there are a large number of legal items that serve as gathering points to increase the rate of transmission?
If that was the case Pat everything in States like Texas Louisiana Mississippi would have chronic wasting disease
I think it would actually have to spread South and East based on this map...so those states may be the last to be affected which it appears to be doing.
Your map shows it spreading in States where baiting is illegal and cattle salt licks are everywhere...... That's what I see but my IQ is that of a kindergartener so what do I know.
That's why writer said he is neutral, I assume. But what I'm suggesting is that if feeders congregate deer, and congregated deer spread the disease, we should move towards less congregation opportunities.... know what I'm sayin?
We got to hold on to all our rights know what I'm saying. CWD is not new. It's been around a long time. 50 years...... Why is baiting all of a sudden going to make it worse?
Look at the two maps and fill in the blanks for yourself. It has happened slowly as confirmed cases have crept away from a concentrated area. I can't say if it's going to all of a sudden make it worse. I can assume it won't help matters if incidences increase...based simply on common sense. Feeders are to deer what day cares are for little kids in terms of transferring germs, sickness, etc....
Looks like I missed a bunch in the last few days. Harvey was in town entertaining us.
I dislike baiting,crossguns and expandable heads but there is no stopping any of them,legal or not.The real question I face,do I fight each to my last breath and splinter hunters or do I shut up and continue trying to bring kids and women into our heritage. There is no easy or logical answer.
Dick Teach kids/people your way respect other legal hunters and love God!
Why do you dislike expandable heads?
On the WI site there is talk of some deer being naturally resistant to CWD. Over time natural selection will prevail. Food for thought on what might or might not work.
And yes Kyle, I still believe food plots are different than bait piles, but that is JMO and understand others disagree.
Cherney a number of reasons but the main 2 would be head 'failures' I or friends have experienced and the fact many who use them pop them into a quiver where they remain regardless of time,weather,etc til actually shot.While most may be reasonably sharp when first put on,many aren't when used. I've used them,with great success at times,and there's a lot to like about them but...IMO the cons outweigh the pros substantially.I still use them for turkeys but am aware of 2 failures last yr on turkeys as well.Blade failure on one,failure to open on the other. If interested I can send U a couple of pics though where they have worked wonderfully giving blood trails a near blind person could follow I think.
I have used them on most of my deer and have had great blood trails and no issues. I was just curious why you dislike them.
has there ever been anything proven that it is feeders that are congregating deer to spread CWD and not the total numbers of deer being higher in an area.Good point about Texas,they probably feed more deer than any area in the country.I am trying to teach my deer not to kiss during rut but not working so well,good thing it's not 12 months long.I just don't think they know,afterall it didn't work so well killing every deer in a county like some states did other than dead deer don't get CWD>this is the mentality in several states,at least in the past.
Hunters transporting the skeletal remnants of deer across the country has probably contributed the most to the rapid spread. Ok, let's say Kyle kills an elk, that's.... No, wait, let's say Forest kills an elk (more believable) in northern Colorado, and hauls it back to Greenwood County and dumps the bones after he's processed the animal. If that elk was a CWD carrier, those prions could easily be spread to the deer in Forest's hunting area. That's the main explanation as to how it popped up in places like New York or West Virginia. Captive cervids have transported the disease and introduced them to wild herds in some areas, but the lawful transport of such deer has largely been curtailed. Frank, if some deer are resistant, why are herds so decimated along the Colorado/Wyoming border, where they've had the disease for up to 50 years? Just askin...
Writer on your point and still talking Mn,it is illegal there to bring a deer carcass into the State from anywhere else.No idea if other States do the same.
Man I have seen a lot of deer and elk headed out of Colorado to other states in my life.
Mike, Not a scientist, but read some of the research. They guess 250-500 years before a fully resistant herd and that killing all slows the resistance as you are killing animals that have some resistance as well as those that don't.
Interesting concept, Frank.
Never heard anything that it's 100 percent fatal.
MN CWD issue heating up because the DNR is pointing fingers at the deer farmers and deer farmers at them. Both sides need to handle situation more reasonably and try to work together. Much misinformation out there as to how CWD originated and now spread in SE MN. My thoughts are when neighboring states like Wisconsin and Iowa have boardering counties that are positive CWD the deer simply migrate across the river to MN eventually spreading the disease. MN DNR would rather believe it all comes from deer farmers. Either way now the DNR has enacted a no feeding ban throughout central and north central MN as a "proactive" measure to curtail CWD their if they find it exists with this seasons testing in these areas. There currently are no CWD positives in the wild herd central and north central that they know. I don't believe in the eradication of deer as they did last winter in SE MN killing so many deer with several hundred too young to even give a valid test. I hate what this state has done to deer quality and overall management. What did I do about it? Bought out- state licenses for bowhunting in five different states and stay out of this mess. You guys in Kansas are lucky. You have some quality deer. We do not. See you this fall in Kansas.
Forest, im up and down i70 quite often. I used to always see a lot of mule deer or elk carcasses in trucks or on trailers headed back east..not any more..all i see is racks and trailers hauling coolers. I know its illegal to bring any bones, spine, brain, etc...into arkansas
The town I grew up in is on I-70. I have never seen sick deer in Kansas. I have in Colorado.
Just because you're not seeing sick deer doesn't mean they aren't there. Just because you are seeing sick deer doesn't mean it's CWD. I see sick or sick-looking deer every year, sometimes several, but I spend "a bit" more time afield than most, especially non-residents. Many of the animals that have tested positive appeared healthy when killed. Some interesting things are happening on the CWD front in Kansas. I'll put them in print as soon as I can get some confirmation.
Writer,I have hunted the Colorado/Wyoming border several times over ten years and I routinely saw more deer, elk, and antelope than I've ever seen anywhere. The state finally did admit what a failure it was when they killed thousands of animals to try and stop the spread of the disease.
I do not like the baiting law in KS.However,it is legal so for the most part keep my mouth shut about it.That said,I understand the political process and once baiting is banned it's not coming back due to the "unsporting" light it cast on the public eye and to a much lesser extent fellow sportsmen.
Although I try to silver up my tongue about the issue compared to Sito,in almost everyone of his posts I feel the exact same way.
Will a ban hurt license sells? I don't think so but pro baiters will interject that narrative for sure.
The X factor is does the unnatural proximation of deer from baiting,salt licks,supplements,attractants (BSA) increase the spread of the disease from animal to animal?
Is the freedom and enjoyment gained from BSA worth the risk of spreading the disease as we continue to learn more ?
Is there a happy medium between those two hypotheticals? Lol No way and we can't expect such.
The goal should be more money into research and into serious dialogue and education of hunters today by raising big game license fees nationwide tomorrow.
Maybe there could be a $1 wildlife tax on every bag of corn sold. Just kidding, like I have said for years I like how Montana handles and respects their Wildlife.
Thorton, the mass killings have never worked. Once it's in an area, it's in an area. Getting different reports, from surveys, in parts of southern Wyoming. And antelope don't get CWD. Only cervids.
I have seen sick deer in here in Chase county. Ten or twelve years ago during late December I had a very large bodied buck come by my stand at less than 10 yards. He had already lost his rack and appeared almost in a stupor. He was coming from water, and was nothing but skin and bones with drool around his mouth. I started to put him out of his misery, but decided that I would let nature take it's course.
There was no way I would have tagged that deer. Also, I knew if I shot him I would need to contact the local Conservation Officer so the deer could be checked. Quite frankly, I felt it was very unlikely that it was CWD. If it was CWD I did not see anything positive about knowing it existed in my county.
I did see another large buck that acted the same that same year. He too had lost his rack. This was about fifteen miles as the crow flies from the other sighting. I have not seen anything like this since.
Writer- would be interested to read anything you have on killing off in numbers and how fruitless it is has been other states. That is the DNR strategy in MN and headed my way in North Central MN. So disgusting. They killed several hundred in SE MN that were not even old enough to test for CWD. <1. Called it eradication. What a waste.
It's been several years since they started telling you not to transport spine and brain from out west states.I really bet the prion is in the soil such as anthrax in Texas.I watched a show about a ranch there they said they still have it in the buffalo wallows and deer get it,when they find one they burn it to help with spread
If baiting spread CWD Michigan wouldn't have a deer left in the state. For the most part 95% of the deer "hunters" in the northern half of the state and the U.P. bait. Millions and millions of pounds of corn, apples and carrots but mostly sugar beets. Every gas station and corner store sells it from October until December in 50 lb bags. Guys here "hunt" for a good tree first and then dump their bait. Now a sugar beet might weigh up to 10 lbs so when you have beets as bait no one deer is going to eat all like they do with corn. A kernel of corn isn't shared but a beet, heck 10 or 15 different deer can bite into it passing around what crud they might have.
We have deer pop up with CWD or test positive for it but it's not just at hunting season. Its year round and folks don't bait year round. Nature just has natural population controls built in that have been around long before man started playing God. CWD is just one of them we notice more because deer killing is such a big sport.
