DeerBuilder.com
Invasives are giving them selve's away
Wisconsin
Contributors to this thread:
GVS 22-Oct-17
Oleduckhunter 22-Oct-17
Jeff in MN 22-Oct-17
GVS 23-Oct-17
bfisherman11 23-Oct-17
Oleduckhunter 23-Oct-17
Jeff in MN 23-Oct-17
CRX32 29-Oct-17
Jeff in MN 29-Oct-17
treegeek 29-Oct-17
Jeff in MN 29-Oct-17
Treefarm 30-Oct-17
Bloodtrail 30-Oct-17
Treefarm 30-Oct-17
CRX32 30-Oct-17
Badgeralum 30-Oct-17
Treefarm 30-Oct-17
LTL JimBow 30-Oct-17
Bloodtrail 30-Oct-17
CRX32 30-Oct-17
Badger Bucks 01-Nov-17
Badger Bucks 04-Nov-17
Badger Bucks 04-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 04-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 04-Nov-17
Treefarm 05-Nov-17
Treefarm 05-Nov-17
CRX32 05-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 06-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 15-Nov-17
Live2hunt 15-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 15-Nov-17
CaptMike 15-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 15-Nov-17
CaptMike 15-Nov-17
Treefarm 16-Nov-17
WaK 16-Nov-17
Treefarm 16-Nov-17
WaK 16-Nov-17
WaK 16-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 16-Nov-17
Treefarm 16-Nov-17
WaK 16-Nov-17
WaK 16-Nov-17
Treefarm 17-Nov-17
HunterR 17-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 17-Nov-17
treegeek 25-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 27-Nov-17
Treefarm 27-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 28-Nov-17
Novice 28-Nov-17
slimm21 28-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 30-Nov-17
Jeff in MN 30-Nov-17
happygolucky 30-Nov-17
GVS 01-Dec-17
Badger Bucks 01-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 02-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 03-Dec-17
Badger Bucks 05-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 05-Dec-17
Badger Bucks 05-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 06-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 18-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 21-Dec-17
silky 22-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 23-Dec-17
Treefarm 23-Dec-17
Treefarm 23-Dec-17
silky 23-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 23-Dec-17
Treefarm 23-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 23-Dec-17
Treefarm 23-Dec-17
Treefarm 23-Dec-17
skookumjt 24-Dec-17
silky 24-Dec-17
GoJakesGo 24-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 24-Dec-17
Badger Bucks 26-Dec-17
Jeff in MN 26-Dec-17
From: GVS
22-Oct-17
For me this past weekend the the invasive and undesirable species were jumping out at me. The Japaneses barbary was flaming red, the honeysuckle was mostly green with yellow leaves, the box elder was still holding green and yellow leaves to give away the last survivors meager attempts to rekindle life. But most notably, the buck thorn was raising it's middle finger with it's deep green leaves. Too bad for all of them as I am at WAR with them. I was marking all such offenders with the flagging tape of doom as I would encounter them on my property. They will be sought out an destroyed!!!! Open your eyes and help save our woods.

22-Oct-17
I battled some on Friday. Unfortunately my woods has lots of it. It's going to take a long time.

From: Jeff in MN
22-Oct-17
Just hit the buckthorn as you find them. I do sometimes paint them as I go so I can tell which ones were sprayed and next year if any are alive I can tell if I missed spraying it or it somehow survived. Most of what I spray now are so thick with it I just spray and go back the next year to treat what I missed.

I was gonna hunt on the ground tonight in an area that I killed a lot of very large buckthorn years ago. Well, that didn't happen because many of those 6" diameter trunks, that have been dead several years with double and tripple trunks lost their grip on the soil and were laying on the ground blocking view and shooting opportunities pretty much all over that area. It was a pretty sight.

From: GVS
23-Oct-17
Here is a link to a buckthorn training video.

https://cedarlakebuckthorn.wordpress.com/history-and-proliferation/buckthorn-training-video/

From: bfisherman11
23-Oct-17
I've been at war on my place for a while now. I used to just dig them up with my tractor and bucket. That was not a finesse way so I evolved to the cut and spray. I'm about half done and still more to go. Always, ha

Bill

23-Oct-17
I have tried most methods. I now use crossbow and diesel and the basal bark method.

From: Jeff in MN
23-Oct-17
Watch the active ingredient amount on the label. Fleet farm sells something with Triclopyr 4 in it but less than 1%, I almost got sucked into that when I was desperate to get some. I think it was pre mixed for foliar treatment. The Garlon 4 I bought recently was around 65%. I actually bought 2.5 gallons of real Garlon 4 recently for around $220, shop around as the generic stuff is about that same price.

From: CRX32
29-Oct-17
Here’s the situation. The land I hunt was a pasture 10yrs ago. The cattle kept the brush down. It’s mostly hickory & oak hardwoods. Now the prickly ash, prickly pear, & multiflower rosebushes are starting to take over the edges, and soon the whole thing. Should I cut and spray, or just spray when the foliage pops next spring? What chemical is best?

From: Jeff in MN
29-Oct-17
Foliar spray works best in fall but while the leaves are still suculant, too late for that now, at least it is here with the recent hard frosts. Basil treatment will work all fall through winter, and to some extent over summer. I mostly use Tryclopyr - 4 (generic garlon-4) but earlier this month I found real garlon for the same price. Look down a ways in the forum and you should find more details posted there. The active ingredient should be 60+ percent. Thought I found some at fleet farm once and it was less than 1%.

For those in east central wisconsin, the place I got the real garlon from is a small farm supply store next to Fox Hills in Mishicot. But they only have it in 2.5 gallon jugs.

From: treegeek
29-Oct-17
Crx now is what I think is the best time to spray and since you are tagged out (beautiful buck) you have a few hours to work these next few weeks. I have mostly small buckthorn. Smaller than an inch diameter. I just cut the tree and put full strength round up immediately on the stump. Have never had a problem with resprouting. Many others spray with triclopyr. Tordon is also very good but some issues with leeching into the soil.

From: Jeff in MN
29-Oct-17
Tordon used to be a restricted herbicide, maybe still is, and was expensive too. Or at least it was in the RTU version (ready to use).

From: Treefarm
30-Oct-17
Tordon (Picloram) is a no no. Please do not use it. Picliram is very persistent and leaches through soil. Colateral damage is very probable as well. Stick with glyphosate (where water formulations are appropriate, or triclopyr, where water and oil formulations are appropriate. Basal bark application is so simple, please teach it to others. No cutting necessary.

From: Bloodtrail
30-Oct-17
I just started using Roundup "Super Concentrate" a with a glyphosate of 50% - I think used straight out of the bottle on cut stump I'm golden. As far as basal bark treatment I don't know? What ya think Treefarm?

I can get this stuff for 15.00 a quart. 49.99 in stores

From: Treefarm
30-Oct-17
Roundup (glyphosate) is not suitable for basal bark unless the bark is cut, so I recommend only for cut stump method.

Basal bark method can be accomplished by incorporating a penetrating oil, diesel will suffice. However, you need an oil loving herbicide (an ester). Garlon (triclopyr) 4 is just that. Mixed 20% in oil, you spray or paint a band around the circumference of tree. No chainsaw, no looper, no sawing needed. Very very simple.

From: CRX32
30-Oct-17
So, can the basal bark method be done in the winter when this brush is dormant? Do I need to have an Applicators license to purchase Garlon 4?

From: Badgeralum
30-Oct-17
No, you do not need an applicators license to purchase Garlon 4. The only thing you need an applicators license for is if it is Restricted use, which most things are not.

From: Treefarm
30-Oct-17
CRX, do basal bark treatment right in dead of winter. Best time is later fall to about March.

30-Oct-17
As I have been hiding and waiting for the big one I noticed a high level of invasive on public land today . So who is going to take care of this on public ? Today I used it for cover as I sat on the ground . I was glad I had it today .

From: Bloodtrail
30-Oct-17
So at 15.00 bucks a quart of 50% Roundup I'm stuck with cut stump application only then Treefarm....For that kinda money I can treat a lot of trees cheap - bad side is basal bark is much easier.

Treated about 150 trees this afternoon - took off from hunting today for the occasion. All cut stump.

From: CRX32
30-Oct-17
This basal bark method sounds excellent. How about the Pathfinder II? Sounds like it’s a premix of Garlon4 & basal oil. Wondering if it’s strong enough.

From: Badger Bucks
01-Nov-17
Tips reiterated from previous posts: Buy Triclopyr 4 from genericherbicides.com. Much cheaper than Garlon 4. (Half the price, even with shipping.)

Mix 0.5 gallons with 3.5 gallons diesel. (Off road is tax free if you can find it.) Use on cut stumps or basal bark. That ratio is right from the DNR handout. Some say it is too weak... tell that to the thousands of buckthorn and other trees I have killed with it over the last 10+ years. Just remember to mix well before each use.

Basal bark means spray the bottom 12 inches or so of the trunk and walk away. In June, the BT will be crispy brown in 2 weeks. In winter, the tree may start to bud in the spring, then die.

Triclopyr 4 mixes well with water and can be used to foliar spary BT, garlic mustard, poison hemlock, and many other nasty invasives. Good stuff!!

From: Badger Bucks
04-Nov-17

Badger Bucks's embedded Photo
Badger Bucks's embedded Photo
Badger Bucks's embedded Photo
Badger Bucks's embedded Photo
Neighbor's land

From: Badger Bucks
04-Nov-17

Badger Bucks's embedded Photo
Badger Bucks's embedded Photo
My land. (Piles of dead buckthorn.)

From: Jeff in MN
04-Nov-17

Jeff in MN's Link
Shop around for Garlon 4, or the generic Triclopyr 4. You can find the generic in the ballpark of $70 per gallon with shipping in one gallon jugs, a little less in 2.5 gallon jugs. Amazon has it. I usually get mine from a company called Alligarie, see the link. Their dealer in the mid west is Skip Welsh . A case of 4 one gallon jugs is $62.50 per gallon plus tax and shipping. A little less if you go with 2, two and a half gallon jugs. If you don't need that much and don't have neighbors to share a bigger order then Amazon might be the way to go. I found actual real garlon 4 at a small independent farm supply store in 2.5 gallon jugs for about that price in Mishicot Wisconsin this fall. Short Lane Ag supply, 608 W Church Street, Michicot, WI Phone: (920) 755-2600 They also have locations in Colby and Pigeon Falls. If you shop around just be sure you are getting 60% or 61% Triclopyr when you buy the generics or you will have to mix accordingly. I almost bought some at Fleet Farm that was less than 1%. It was actually a pre-mix under a different name. Most of what you find is the 60%.

I like the 1 gallon jugs because I will take the sprayer with a gallon of mix in it to the field and carry an extra gallon that I mixed in a empty triclopyr jug (or two) along with me when I know I will use more than a gallon of mix. Just mark the jug 'Diesel Mix' so you don't mess up later. That way all the important warnings are on the jug in case someone thinks that jug is good for another use.

Don't go carrying around a two gallon sprayer, first it is too much weight when full to be carrying around for hours and second one gallon sprayers are shorter if carrying it around in your hand versus over your shoulder.

I only spray about 4-6" of the base. If the base is mossy then spray above the moss. I also strongly recommend an ultra low volume spray wand if you are going to do a lot of spraying. It also has a longer wand so less bending and reaching. It also has a filter to keep crap from clogging up the nozzle. However the screen still does clog up once in a great while.

http://www.arborchem.com/products/ulv-wand.html

From: Jeff in MN
04-Nov-17
If you are skeptical about the effectiveness of what you are doing then spray a dab of red or orange paint on the stems you treat, go back early summer and see if anything you painted is still alive. Tip, always spray paint the same side of the stem (north, east, south, or west) so when you go back you don't need to walk around each one to find the paint. You are more likely to find live ones without any paint than finding any paint on live ones.

The only advantage to spraying NOW is that they are so much easier to spot as the subject of this thread implies. There is other stuff that sill has green leafs but not many and they are mostly a lighter color of green. You can do basil treatment year round, maybe slightly less effective in spring and summer because the sap is going up, not to the roots. So maybe spray a little more on or mix a little stronger in spring and early summer.

Last year I got my buck early so I headed to the land I hunt in Iowa and treated 80 acres of woods that had modest infestation on 70% of it. Only BT I have seen in that area is one about quarter inch in diameter in a fence line. I pulled it out by the roots which is also an effective means. I did most of the other 30% of the woods which was infected worse and after half done it got dark but I kept spraying until I ran out of solution. I did miss a lot where it was dark out and still a lot there in the area I did not do. But I will hit it that area after I am done hunting there.

Some public land areas are a disaster. Eight years ago I hunted Mississippi river backwater areas around Kellog MN, it was getting bad then, I cannot imagine how bad it is now as I doubt Wisconsin or Minnesota are doing anything to slow it down.

From: Treefarm
05-Nov-17
Those actively protecting their property against buckthorn are true land stewards. It is difficult to make the time. Listen to my motto, "Make is a 30 day job today before it becomes a 30 day job tomorrow". Think about it. You have to protect for the future. There are areas already being decimated by buckthorn...no native tree regeneration. Eventually, no more oaks, maple, Birch, hickory, you name it. With it goes wildlife food and timber value.

Very hard to sit in a bowstand and see a buckthorn that missed my treatment.

Keeping buckthorn at bay is easy, even with neighbors who do nothing. A strong uneven age native component can battle itself against buckthorn.

If there is be word of advise, don't sit back and do nothing. The native genetics will get lost and the property will become a worthless brush-infested desert. Take it from those of us battling it, if done methodically, you will win. Please protect our wooded areas for our future generation. It is like eating an elephant one bite at a time.

From: Treefarm
05-Nov-17
Edit: "Make is a 30 minute job today before it becomes a 30 day job tomorrow".

From: CRX32
05-Nov-17
So I’ve been busy reading (messaging TreeFarm), doing lots of research on all this spraying I have to do. I bought a cheap backpack sprayer from Menards today, probably not a low volume wand, but I’ll see what happens. Definately going to use forestry oil instead of diesel, seems more environmentally friendly since the land I hunt is a watershed to the WI River.

From: Jeff in MN
06-Nov-17
Definetly not a low volume spray wand, the only way you get one is if you specifically buy one. A normal wand is fine, you just waste more solution and bend a bit more. If you don't have a huge amount of BT to kill the cost of the LV wand is a waste.

Let us know how the backpack works out. I have always liked my little Gilmore one gallon tank but having that extra hand free might be nice.

From: Jeff in MN
15-Nov-17

Jeff in MN's Link
This post is in response to a question Wak asked in another thread. I thought it was a subject better discussed here.

Any plastic tank hand sprayer will work fine. I have used a one gallon Gillmour for years, I own two of them. However lately I have had dried up leaf particles getting into the tank and plugging up the wand and the little rubber stopper at the bottom of the pump assembly which results is solution going up the tube that you pump for pressure. Must be getting in thru the opening where the shaft goes through the cap area and eventually thru the rubber stopper. Just avoid sprayers where the pump assembly sticks up a foot or so above the tank itself. Makes it hard to carry. With any hand sprayer relieve the tank pressure every time you are done. Or risk solution going up the pump tube or out the wand.

Tanks bigger than a gallon get clumsy and heavy to carry for basil treatment. If doing foliar you use more solution so a bigger tank might be worth it.

For moderate levels of use the wand that comes with the tank will work fine. But for lots of use an ultra low volume spray wand is nice to have. It is brass, it is longer so you can reach farther and bend over less. Makes a nice fine spray cone so you don't miss the the little trunks and have to hit the stem multiple times. It has a filter in the handle area, where the hose hooks to it, which makes my tank letting crap get into the tank a bit more tollerable. It also has an adjustment that stops the trigger at the point where is sets the amount of spray you want to come out. I don't use that feature but once in a while it set's itself. But they cost $160 dollars. See link. I finally got Treefarm to buy one and he loves it too.

One recommendation with any spray tank or wand you might want to change the hose out to a true rubber one (from auto supply place). The ones you get with a sprayer get pretty stiff in colder temps. Some are a little short too.

You should be able to get Triclopyr-4 for around $70 a gallon, real Garlon-4 a couple bucks more. 2.5 gallon jugs run a little cheaper per gallon. Amazon is a good source if you don't have a source near you with reasonable prices.

From: Live2hunt
15-Nov-17
That's what that stuff was where I bowhunted this year, buckthorn. I thought that's what it was, dark berries with green leaves still. The bucks really loved making scrapes under it for some reason. This is along a river on county land.

From: Jeff in MN
15-Nov-17

Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Yup, deer eat the leafs, bucks rub the trunks and it all seems good until you understand what Treefarm posted in the other thread.

Part of Wak's question regarded protecting planted trees from deer. I don't know any good answers other than fences. Tree wrap helps a lot but even that won't stop rubs. I have used blue-tubes but have had too many transplants die inside of them. Even so once the tree gets above the tube tops the top will get eaten. I now use 6" x 6" cement reinforcement mesh. It is 5' high and make the diameter whatever you want.

You can kind of see what I mean in the pic. Just got to take them away or cut the top of the ring down when branches start to hit the wire. The black socks have rocks in them, meant to pull the apple tree branches down over time. The stakes are just treated 2x2 with a point cut to drive them in, then weave the stake thru the 6x6 mesh and a sheetrock screw is put in at a downward angle and goes over one of the horizontal wires holding it down. Use 4 stakes per tree, maybe 3 if the ring isn't too big.

UPDATE, you can see that even with the rebar mesh once the tree gets as big as these trees are the deer can still chew branches but at least then it is just branches, not the trunk. The deer around my orchard eat the apples but have been very considerate not to chew up branches. In return for their consideration I have not shot any of them.

From: CaptMike
15-Nov-17
Is the goal to spray the trunk as close to the ground as possible or will anywhere on the trunk suffice?

From: Jeff in MN
15-Nov-17
Lower is best, more active ingredient gets to the roots faster. But on buckthorn 'trees' that have moss on the bottom I have treated above the moss and they died. Probably soaked the trunks a little more on those. It is more important that the whole circumference gets sprayed. Maybe treefarm will chime in on this one, I think he has done some treatment above ground level, using a sponge type paint brush no less.

From: CaptMike
15-Nov-17
Thanks Jeff, sounds as if I have some work to do.

From: Treefarm
16-Nov-17
When applied with oil, the herbicide is systemic so it becomes a matter of surface area treated. The best reason I can think of for doing Main trunk as a band is that the cambium is destroyed.

As an experiment, run a strip of spray vertically down the side if a box elder and comeback in a year or two and see what it did. Almost acts like acid.

Let's keep this thread going to answer questions and educate so that it can balloon to neighbors getting educated. The future of healthy woods is very bleak without assistance.

From: WaK
16-Nov-17
Treefarm or Jeff,

Have either of you used Garlon 4 in water to folliar-spray small buckthorn colonies?

What about Japanese Barberry control? Recommendations? Thx.

From: Treefarm
16-Nov-17
4 is an ester, 3 is an amine. Both work for Foliar spraying using water. 4 forms an emulsion.

I recommend Foliar spraying about October 15-20 while buckthorn leaves are succulent and native trees have dropped. Spraying then avoids collateral damage of native species, singling out buckthorn.

I mix at 4-4.5% (v/v%). I will add MSO as well at a rate of 1oz/gallon mix.

4 works on most any broadleaf plant. Barberry has waxy cuticle so additional penetrant may be needed. I have no experience.

From: WaK
16-Nov-17
MSO?

From: WaK
16-Nov-17
Does basal spraying with Garlon seem to be more effective than basal spraying w gly?

From: Jeff in MN
16-Nov-17
methylated seed oil, MSO. When mixed in the spray solution it breaks the tension on the outside of the water droplet after it hits the leaf, thus making for better surface contact between the garlon and the leaf.

I don't do much foliar spraying, what I did do last year was not effective. I think I was a little late and did not use any MSO. I am going to do it much earlier next summer. The BT is so thick there I don't have to worry about killing other foliage because there is none.

I have never used gly so can't answer that question.

From: Treefarm
16-Nov-17
Glyphosate is not suitable to be used for basal bark spraying. It does not have the ability to penetrate bark as it only mixes with water.

MSO is an oil that is emulsified when used with water. It is like a tackifier and helps spread the herbicide mixture over the leave.

Another option is to use a surfactant. Surfactants break surface tension of water and help spread water and herbicide over leave.

From: WaK
16-Nov-17
Thanks for the replies. My question about gly was regarding the efficacy of it vs Garlon as a foliar spraying agent (not for basal bark applications). Gly is a lot cheaper; however, my experience with it as a foliar spray for buckthorn, even at high concentrations, has been unimpressive. I’ve never used Garlon as a foliar spray: if it only works as well as gly in that application, I don’t want to waste my money using Garlon.

From: WaK
16-Nov-17
I hired a land management guy to help me kill some buckthorn a couple of years ago. He actually treated a colony of young buckthorn with gly sprayed from a Husqvarna blower/sprayer (mister?). I don’t think that method of spraying is actually legal, but, boy, did it ever do a number on that buckthorn stand: The bushes are all dead and no buckthorn has regrown in the area in 2 years. It was a seemingly safe area for such spraying, as no other natives were growing in the area.

From: Treefarm
17-Nov-17
Yes, glyphosate is great for Foliar. If using glyphosate containing surfactant (like or Round-up), stay away from the water to protect aquatic invertebrates.

From: HunterR
17-Nov-17
Speaking of deer bedding in buckthorn, I've had a handful of different foresters on my land throughout the years and I remember just a few years back one (happened to be a DNR employed forester) mentioned that he knows landowners who do really like buckthorn for deer bedding (they claim there's not much better...?) and actually have areas (5-10 acres) that are almost nothing but buckthorn and they apparently hold deer. Interesting how some love it and some hate it, I guess it depends on a person's long term goals.

From: Jeff in MN
17-Nov-17
I suppose if you diligently weed out the females and keep it below 10 feet high it wouldn't be so bad. But who does that? People either do their best to get rid of it or do nothing.

My daughter moved into an older house that she is renting in one of Wisconsin's larger cities. First thing I notice in front of her house is buckthorn hidden in another bush of some sort along with a tree of some sort fighting to get through it. Look towards the neighbors hedge and BT scattered thoroughout it too.

From: treegeek
25-Nov-17
TTT

From: Jeff in MN
27-Nov-17
Been treating BT about every day the last two weeks. Would hunt a little early and late and treat in between or even not hunt at all and treat all day. Today I started out working on a little thicket of mostly stuff 6-12' tall plus little stuff. I am standing at a big oak tree thinking which way to turn next when I realize the bark on the tree next to the tree I am standing by has bark that looks buckthorn. Sure enough when I looked up it was confirmed. Two 4+ inch trunks on opposite sides of an 8" trunk. To top it off this tree is maybe 5' from where the owner mows lawn and he had no clue it was there even tho he has also treated this same area several times over the years. I don't think he believes me.

I ordered a Ultra Low Volume spray wand for him and according to UPS it got delivered at 5:30 tonight. I expect I will get a call when he gets back from his pistol club shoot. I have shot several deer on his property over the years and figured I owe him to help treat the BT and make it easier for him to continue with his own treating. I had a 1 gallon spray tank that I left for him and put a brand new rubber automotive type hose on the tank too. The hoses that come with most sprayers do not work too well in cold weather like we had last week.

From: Treefarm
27-Nov-17
Way to go Jeff in MN. I second the ultra low volume wand, it is my new standard. I killed a lot yesterday. Sure going to look different with buckthorn dead. I was planting shagbark hickory nuts and found a 2'x3' patch of Garlic Mustard north of me. Glad I found it before it spread.

From: Jeff in MN
28-Nov-17
Treefarm, I am seeing a LOT of BT that appears to have been killed in the past and re-sprouted from ground level. I am guessing this is from not treating the whole circumference. Or could it be from treating too high? I thought treating above ground level was OK to do (like when thick moss is present) even tho I always treat ground level anyway and spray from at least two directions on all trunks unless they are less than about 22 caliber diameter. Since this guy has always used a stream type tip and normal short wand I am guessing he is not always getting the whole diameter. Opinions? Well, I am off to the BT woods now. I plan to start with a small patch that a deer hid in 40 yards from me in my stand a few days ago. The whole little patch is about 2" diameter stuff.

Footnote, the landowner finally had some time to treat a couple days ago. While I was treating I used about a half gallon of solution, in a little less time than that he used 1.5 gallons. One of the benefits of these low volume wands.

From: Novice
28-Nov-17
Fyi, there are various YouTube videos of treating BT. Spent some time last night trying to educate myself. There were a couple from MN (Jeff wasn't in them, though) and even 1 from the WI DNR. I just need to find one that shows the ingredients of the herbicides and how to mix. Some guys were adding a dye to the mix to make it easier to see what you already treated. I like that idea.

From: slimm21
28-Nov-17
I signed up recently for some grant money to help with BT. I'd do it myself, but I just don't have the time. I'd say it is medium to thick in my little parcel --- the deer seem to move pretty well in it and I think to a certain degree they like the cover -- that makes me a little nervous to remove it, even though it is probably best for the health of my woods.

From: Jeff in MN
30-Nov-17
Skimm, there have to be better things to plant that will do what you are thinking the BT can do for you. If you decide to leave it be sure to kill any that start to form any berries and keep them cut down to say 10' tall. Otherwise in no time at all there will be no foliage at the level where a deer could hide in or eat.

Novice, just be sure you get the Triclopyr 4, that way you can do the diesel mix or the water mix methods. Diesel to treat trunks, water to treat leafs. The active ingredient should be at 60 or 61 percent, depending on brand that you buy. (Fleet farm sells a ready to use mix under a different name that is like 1%.) For diesel I mix I use 5 parts diesel, to 1 part triclipyr-4. 22 ounces of Triclopyr plus 5 times the 22 ounces of diesel makes just over a gallon, just right for a 1 gallon spray tank. Soak the bottom 6 inches of the trunk and they are dead. If doing hillsides be careful about falling/rolling objects bending the stem down, I have found stems where logs rolled on them and the upright stalk was 4 feet from the roots.

I have not used dye but Larry does. He uses plain food coloring and says blue works best. When I mark where I have been or what I have sprayed using paint I like white. I can see the darker wet on the trunk which is why I have not used it but I think I will try it as sometimes the wetness is not obvious and dries up in a couple of hours where dye wouldn't loose color.

Triclopyr is a relatively safe chemical but still use precautions like wearing gloves and washing hands frequently. Safety glasses with sides to keep branches from catching an eye would be good too.

From: Jeff in MN
30-Nov-17
Holey smokes, I just did the math. The landowner I am helping and I have gone through about 4 gallons of concentrate over the last 12 or so days. That is 24 gallons of mixed solution. I use less spray per hour than Larry does because I try to be careful about the pattern using paint to mark my way and try to treat every stem down to the pencil lead size ones. Larry runs a pattern that yields faster work but he will have lots of gaps in the areas he did because he does not mark his path . Not that either is right or wrong, just that Larry will have to redo his areas next fall to catch the stuff he missed. We are both doing hillsides right now, much of it at close to 6/12 pitch.

From: happygolucky
30-Nov-17
My land near Escanaba, MI is so thick with BT that I could never do this by hand. I have brought in the big boys (dozers, excavators, grinders) to create openings and trails taking out the BT they run across and then some. I have already gone through my share of Garlon4/diesel and will still use some to hit any fresh growth.

I can only attack in strategic areas because my land is basically cedar swamp and the BT thrives in there. The bucks sure do like to rub on BT more so than my cedars. It is amazing too how they maneuver in the densest of the crap.

There are many areas where I do not want to remove it because I believe the deer are bedding there or nearby and like it for security. Where it is in my way or in areas where I want browse to grow (higher areas), I am having it removed.

From: GVS
01-Dec-17
I am so impressed with all of the good information that has showed up here since I started this thread I have it bookmarked and have shared it with others that don't come here.

I really am fortunate that the only BT that I have are stragglers but I see it growing all over the roadways just a couple miles away.

I have been mostly getting rid of the prickly ash and spent last Friday doing just that to the final patches. I started doing this 5 years ago on a patch that adjoins a neighbors patch. Mine is now all gone with native grass and other vegetation coming up. Across the fence the PA is so thick that nothing grows under it and it is obvious that the deer sign is mostly on my side. I am pleased that it disappeared so quickly. There are only a few stray sticks on the ground where it was so thick that I had to treat it on my hands and knees.

Thanks for all of the great valuable information.

From: Badger Bucks
01-Dec-17
I have been treating BT for about 10 years. I just bought another parcel next to me. With the prior owners permission, I have been treating the BT near our property line. Now I will go through all of it.

As such, I ordered one of the ULV wands Jeff recommends. Arrives Monday. I will connect it to a backpack sprayer I have been using with diesel mix for a couple years. Will also get automotive hose - the stock hose has stiffened to the point of being un-usable. I assume it didn't like diesel.

I will report on how these work. I assume I will regret not making the switch years ago - many gallons of spray wasted.

From: Jeff in MN
02-Dec-17
BB, your back will like the longer wand too. I can't imagine carrying the sprayer on your back, especially with the steep hill I am currently working on.

CRX32, would you copy paste the URL for the wand and the hints that I just sent you on using the wand into a post here so I don't need to retype it all?

From: Jeff in MN
03-Dec-17
Holey smokes, freight on the ULV wand I purchased 2 weeks ago was $19.50. Seems way, way higher than reasonable.

From: Badger Bucks
05-Dec-17
Too funny - I work in very rugged country and can't imagine having to carry around a 1 gallon sprayer and not having at least one hand free all times to grab onto something if I start to lose my balance or start sliding!! I spray hundreds of gallons of mix each spring on garlic mustard using a backpack sprayer as well. I tote between 2.5 and 3.5 gallons of mix on my back - up, down, and across some very steep hills. Having one hand free at all times has saved me many, many times. I am 6'4" 220 lbs and in OK shape, but I don't think anyone ever mistook me for being athletic or having overly great balance !!

Maybe we should settle this once and for all. Let's meet and trade equipment for an afternoon and see which system is best - I offer my place as the test plot!! ;)

BTW - UPS dropped off new wand at 7pm last night. (Poor bastards and their holiday schedule!!) Freight was $23.75 AND they charged me WI sales tax on the total. (Even though they are in PA.) That brings the total to $197.62 !! Plus I still need to get the new hose and a couple hose clamps from NAPA on the way home...

Can't wait to try it out this weekend though!! BB

From: Jeff in MN
05-Dec-17
Guess I have to confess that I have never used a backpack sprayer and having the extra hand would certainly be handy. Between the sprayer, the wand, grabbing trees, and a can of spray paint (to mark my pattern with so I don't wander around aimlessly) it would be good to have more than two arms. I have pretty much had enough spraying (note I did not say done spraying) buckthorn for the year. So, badger, where are you at for that tank versus backpack competition next fall?

Yup, many companies now hit you for sales tax for the ship to state. Legally I guess they are required to if they have a 'business presence' in that state.

From: Badger Bucks
05-Dec-17
Iowa County - Southwestern part of the state. Pretty far from your stomping grounds up by Hayward...

Picked up the hose and clamps on my way home. (A good reason to stop at my local NAPA Auto Parts and Gun Store - Not joking!!)

Got my new wand attached to the sprayer. New wand seems well made. It is a bit heavier, which is to be expected. That rubber hose is a good idea.

If it weren't so windy tonight I might have taken it out for a test drive! Maybe Sunday....

From: Jeff in MN
06-Dec-17
BB glad someone took me up on that rubber hose tip. You will be happy with the wand in spite of the extra weight. Heck, if you can carry a 3.5 gallon back pack sprayer you can handle that the weight of your new wand.

From: Jeff in MN
18-Dec-17
Not too late to keep treating. As long as the snow isn't too deep go for it. Only an inch of snow where I am in Minnesota right now. Perfect conditions, add dye in the mix shows up really good on the snow. Leafs are sill hanging on to help you identify the BT. Landowner and I went thru 4+ gallons of the diesel mix today. Probably will do a similar amount tomorrow. Hit quite a bit of small stuff up to an inch but a lot of it was 2-6" diameter. Good deer sign, several beds and trails had plenty of track on them. Maybe I should break out the bow. Pretty sure I will putting up a new stand in the area we treated today.

From: Jeff in MN
21-Dec-17
Since my last post the two of us applied another 7 gallons of diesel mix. 4 gallons of that went on a section that is maybe 3 acres. Lots of BT that was over 2" up to about 7" diameter. We have come to the conclusion that we will need to cut some of that down next summer and pile it up. Otherwise over time they will fall over and make for a tangled up mess crossing each other and be near impossible to get through that mess for future treatments. We are calling it quits for now with snow and low temps coming.

I think we used up 7 gallons of garlon or 42 gallons of mixed solution this fall. Using dye with an inch or so of snow on the ground really helped this past week. I did a second pass over that little 3 acre piece after the landowner treated it using 2 gallons of solution. I used another 2 gallons on it treating stuff that he missed. Without the dye and snow I could not have done that. There is still a lot of small stuff in that section that will need to be treated next summer with foliar spray.

From: silky
22-Dec-17
I had the county forester on my land, I have a lot of honeysuckle. She was telling me about a program called eqip by the NCRS where they will help with cost sharing. I was wondering if anyone was in this program? I have been spraying with garlon and diesel. I was also thinking of renting a bobcat with a fecon. any thoughts?

From: Jeff in MN
23-Dec-17
Treefarm rented one a year or two ago. He said it was awesome but expensive to rent. I know windshields are expensive and imagine if you broke one on a rental it would cost you plenty. Something to keep in mind. But buckthron would still need to be treated if you don't want it to come back.

From: Treefarm
23-Dec-17

Treefarm's Link
Silky, let me offer advice. I am unaware how large the property you have or if other exotic invasive species are present. Keep in mind, native "crap" like prickly ash is ok, and beneficial as habitat and cover. If it is widespread keeping "good" trees from growing, take it out.

On to honey suckle. The verdict is still out about killing it with triclopyr. Personally, cutting it and applying a solution of 25% glyphosate is said to be effective. I just don't tackle honey suckle very often as buckthorn is more prevalent where I walk. There is honey suckle, but I feel it spreads slower. It is shallow rooted, some pull it. (Million $ idea here, market a high speed winch you attach to a adjacent tree and pull out every nearby honey suckle).

Now Fecon. They are kick-butt. Very heavy so best on frozen ground and frozen surface helps grind stumps completely. I did rent one and on the largest Bobcat (870) and was best money ever spent. I chewed through buckthorn (glossy) like butter. I made a couple miles of access trails. I did not selectively mow areas targeting exotic invasives. The areas I did Fecon, I followed up the next year with triclopyr/penetrating oil to prohibit resprouting.

So. ??. If you do clear with Fecon, be prepared for followup stump treatments. This is very tricky as you will also have desirable vegetation and trees coming back. So, in the end, I would only recommend the Fecon for trail making.

The old adage, "eating and elephant, one spoonful at a time" plays here. Better to surgically attack leaving adjacent "good stuff".

Good luck on your habitat improvement project. A healthy forest is all that is needed to have cover and feed deer.

From: Treefarm
23-Dec-17

Treefarm's embedded Photo
Fecon in action in minus temps
Treefarm's embedded Photo
Fecon in action in minus temps
I have a video too but can't figure how to post it.

From: silky
23-Dec-17
I have 205 acres, 25 tillable , 100 in crp 60 acres planted in red and white pine getting there first thinning this next year planted in 2003. The other crp planted in white spruce white pine oak and maple. The rest woods and lowland . The honeysuckle very prevalent along my trails and creek bottoms. Now that I know what it is it really takes over in places . Have some autumn olive and a little buckthorn. But by far the majority is honeysuckle. Going to look into the EQIP program administered by the NCRS. to help offset the costs

From: Jeff in MN
23-Dec-17
I always knew I had honeysuckle at my place but let it be not knowing it was invasive and didn't think I had much. Well today I was searching for some of the last few buckthorn on my property. As I went I started treating honeysuckle. After a little while I started to realize I had 10 times more than I realized. I went into the mode where I only treated the easy ones so I would not run out of herbicide again.

Today was the first time that I really felt like I had BT licked on my land. I did treat maybe 15 stems, all under a half inch. That is nothing. I used way more herbicide on grape vine and honeysuckle than those few BT.

I also treated a small corner of the neighbors that was horrible with BT 3 years ago. It is a triangle that is maybe 150 yards by 80 yards. It was just full of stuff up to 4" diameter. Today I treated probably 20 stems under a half inch plus some real small stuff. It will need foliar spray in some areas this summer. I also picked out a sweet tree for a stand.

Snow was on the ground for 24 hours and plenty of track on the game trails, some of which I created while doing the BT treatment over the years. Fresh beds all over the two places, bumped one deer but did not see it.

I don't know why garlon mixed with diesel wouldn't work on honeysuckle. Some of what I treated today would require a mini excavator or skid steer with a grapple claw to pull. (neither of which do I want to drive where these honeysuckle are) Some were 15' high and 12' wide. Guess I will know if the garlon worked by early summer.

From: Treefarm
23-Dec-17

Treefarm's Link

From: Jeff in MN
23-Dec-17

Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Jeff in MN's embedded Photo
Anyone know what that attachment is used for? Gotta be something with field maintanance, they were there for just over an hour. A second person followed him in and out with a 4 wheeler.

Treefarm, you link does not work.

From: Treefarm
23-Dec-17

Treefarm's Link

From: Treefarm
23-Dec-17
Rock picker Jeff

From: skookumjt
24-Dec-17
Jeff, that us a rock picker. I own one of those. I also own a Fecon. I primarily use it for shearing tag alder for habitat projects in the winter and for clearing shooting lanes and food plots other times but am getting more requests for invasive treatment. It is very effective, but you are right it needs follow up with herbicide to be effective.

From: silky
24-Dec-17
Great article Treefarm thanks

From: GoJakesGo
24-Dec-17
No pics but 55 acres I own or have access to have been sprayed for BT. Im sure there is more but a vast majority of the 2-5" shrubs have been treated.

From: Jeff in MN
24-Dec-17
I suspected rock picker, thanks for confirming. How does it work, I am guessing you scoop the rocks in the end of the drum and spin it to get rid of the dirt. I imagine next time I walk back to the area they went into that I will see some rocks laying off to the side of the field. That is the same area as the triangle shaped 'woods' that I treated buckthorn in yesterday.

I wish the honeysuckle study would have also been done without cutting the stumps. I doubt it makes a difference since with buckthorn it does not matter. I will find out in spring.

From: Badger Bucks
26-Dec-17
Honeysuckle is tough to kill with basal bark treatment using diesel and triclopyr 4. A year after treatment, you can see where almost the entire trunk looks dead and rotten, but the bush itself is lush and thriving. I don't have a lot of honeysuckle, but have treated some multiple times before having to finally cut it and treat the stump. (A tree trimmer like my Stihl kombi tool work great for this. Less bending and struggling to reach the trunk than when using a chainsaw.)

I have my theories as to why it is so resistant, but these are only guesses: 1) the bark is like tape and maybe it resists the diesel from penetrating 2) the whole trunk is very stringy. Maybe unlike trees, the cambium is hidden deeper inside and this prevents the poison from contacting 100% of it 3) although my 1:7 mix is sufficient for BT (and multiflora rose and box elder and bitternut hickory and .....), maybe honeysuckle needs a stronger dose

I am a Professional Engineer, but an amateur botanist - I doubt i will ever know the truth....

From: Jeff in MN
26-Dec-17
Guess I will hope my 5:1 mix will do the job. Some of what I treated had probably 6 stems coming up from the roots. Those might be the ones more prone to take the aggressive approach of cutting them first. After I did a few of the multiple stems I went more for the single and double stems mostly because of the snow on the ground and difficulty of hitting every stem in the cold weather.

I do have two good size gas trimmers with cutting blades. How big of diameter can they effectively cut? I have never used the blade on them.

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