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He's got someone lining his pockets again....

If you are referring to my response to you and Retro, just the littlest bit of reading will demonstrate who initiated the dialogue. Now please do not take this as "attacking" but it appears your feelings are easily hurt, or, you simply inject a snide comment, most likely due to me presenting you with facts you cannot refute. I realize you are simply trying to save face. Time to grow up.

Yes it is time for you to follow your own advice. Well stated. Now try to listen to yourself. It might echo from that very tall pedestal you use to look down at all others here. Careful buddy.

Snide remark? I told retro "Well played" on one of his comments which was intended to be humorous. Why would you take that personally and get your undies in a bundle over it? It was well played and it made me laugh. No need to lash out at retro or me. Remember, others are entitled to their own opinions on bowsite. People should not have to pm you to get permission on what to post. Expecting people to do that would be, well, ignorant ;).

Isn't it true that you, representing SCI and Southeast Wisconsin Bowhunters, registered in favor of AB 194?

I found this online and it interested me.

"According to the Senate committee clerk’s report, nobody registered in opposition to AB 194. Those who testified in support of AB 194 were Czaja, Danou, Schimelpfenig, Moulton, Lobner, Dymale, Fritsch, Brent Gardner of the National Rifle Association, Sen. Paul Farrow, R-33rd Senate District, Mike Pjevach of SCI and Southeast Wisconsin Bowhunters, Chris Caliendo of SCI, Steven Cripps of SCI Badgerland, Kathy Pantzlaff of United Sportsmen of Wisconsin, Jeff Nass of Wisconsin FORCE, and Jeff Perlewitz of Southeast Wisconsin Bowhunters.

Those who registered in favor of the bill but did not testify were Scott Meyer of United Sportsmen of Wisconsin, Natural Resources Board member Greg Kazmierski, Tom Corcoran, and Craig Enders. "

Why would you and all these others vote in favor of this bill versus making a statement and voting against it? I am truly ignorant to why someone would not have voted against this. Thanks in advance for the edification.

This is what I'm finding...

Not that you know anything about merit, as you have yet to add anything of merit or fact to this conversation. Guess that makes you ignorant on the subject?? ;)

"Because I really do not care for you" I'm sorry you don't care for me Captain because I really think you are wealth of knowledge always willing to assist those who know less than you.

Yet, this conversation is good as it brings awareness and interest to others. Something that was sorely lacking in 2013.

Captain Mike - you stated the following above -->

"Tweed, you are correct that he is a member of the NRB. Rest assured he did not and does not in any way support crossbows in an archery season. I too will eagerly await any supporting facts to show otherwise. "

So, seeing that I am a fan of Google, I tried to find the information for Tweed. That is when I discovered this interesting information. It was straight forward and it looks like factual information that you indeed were not against full inclusion of xbows and voted in favor of it. I hope you invested that money wisely. Please school me some more. I told you I need the edification. Oh, and yes, Kaz did approve full inclusion of xbows too according to what I read. That makes this statement by you 100% wrong --> "Rest assured he did not and does not in any way support crossbows in an archery season". I guess you don't need to wait any longer for supporting facts to prove otherwise. You are welcome!

No Captain - you don't ever get into belittling and name calling. That one is even a new low for you. Mommies (sic) dress? Thanks for continuing to prove my point about you and how you interact when people opine differently than you like. You should not type when you are angry.

"The three major co-authors of AB 194, Rep. Chris Danou, D-Trempealeau, Sen. Paul Farrow R-Pewaukee, and Rep. Mary Czaja, R-Irma, led off the hearing with their comments for why they drafted the bill.

Danou said this was good for the hunting tradition and for businesses, and that it will not violate the public trust or issues of fair chase.

Czaja noted that it would provide growth for businesses, such as Mathews Bow in Sparta."

We know it helped Kaz's Buck Rub business. When you go to his website https://www.buckrubarchery.com/ It states "The Midwests Bowhunting and Crossbow Authority".

Seems like a huge swing in just three months.

Even Donald cant' get that kind of turn around 8^)

Bowhunting is dying and will continue to die. It is not about the law. Bowhunters have a choice and most have chosen to drop out of bowhunting and move on to crossbow hunting. It is as simple as that, bowhunters quitting bowhunting to crossbow hunt. A choice hunters are making.

So what does that say about all those people who voted in favor of full inclusion like you did Captain?

This was to be addressed after year 2. It is now year 4 with no changes. If money won the first time, and it looks like the money may have flowed (legally but ethically right is the question) down many levels with EVERYONE changing their votes out of nowhere, how could one not expect the same result going forward? Maybe airbows are next? Kaz would profit from them too. He's a leader in Crossbows in the Midwest.

What disturbs me with this unexpected discovery is wondering if the members in the groups Mike and others were representing knew their "leaders" were either A) crossbow advocates all along or B) chose to follow the money going against the member's wishes with the vote. This is worse IMO than the legislature voting 96-0 to move forward after the hunters voted it down multiple times. These people were representing others. Then you have the Governor signing it in going against the Sportsmen for Walker. We all knew that was money related but we did not know how deep it flowed.

It is a total shame how corrupt politics and money can always win out in every situation. I can't believe that not one single person in that group would have had the gumption to stick up for what he/she felt was right and voted no. Money talks.

Please be accurate Captain. I never said no other states have limited crossbow use. I said no states have shortened their archery seasons due to crossbows. Please try to be factual for once. I hunt in MI and knew they did not have full inclusion. I love what Kentucky did. Thanks for providing that information.

We will disagree on full inclusion. Many are in disagreement on this and although you don't allow it, people are all entitled to their opinions. There are people on both sides as you've seen and it is simply conjecture on both sides. When the dates or kill rules change, then I'll change my position. Kentucky and MI are examples of non full-inclusion. Kudos to them.

I am open minded on my opinion on the impacts of xbows. I know that is a rare viewpoint. I voted against them but know they are here to stay and will live with them. As you know, I even have friends who use them. I won't judge or belittle my friends. Having lived through the advent of compounds, there is some history with what has formed my opinion. After all, bowhunting survived the influx of hunters and kills when the wheels came. You have never once posted any statistical information to make me believe that bowhunting is ruined as we knew it. When I see that information, I will definitely change my opinion. I am very willing to change my opinions on things as I learn more. I love learning from you since you seem to know it all. Until then, I will just hunt, enjoying my time and solace in the woods and not live my life as if the sky is falling. I still feel bowhunting is alive and well in WI. I guess I like to look on the positive side.

But, since crossbows do have a negative impact on all seasons as you say, why did you vote for their full inclusion? That seems strange to me yet it is right there in black and white that you did approve them for the exact same dates as the existing archery season. Did you cave for personal gain or have you been a crossbow advocate all along? Was it worth stabbing all those hunters you represented in the back?

Got any numbers or email addresses?

Legislators have made it very clear that they pay little attention to groups so it is imperative that individuals reach out rather than rely on the groups they belong to.

More name calling Mike. SOP for you. The best thing to do now after being this exposed is to just be a man about it. You can't hide from the truth anymore or try to fabricate it as you have done often in this thread.

Reggiezpop, the Captain is not willing to answer any questions asked of him and I believe everyone knows why. I really can't believe he and his constituents were all allowed to be bought out. The last thing the Captain ever wanted was for someone to find out that he actually endorsed xbows to be used during the exact dates as the archery season. His self pats on his back for his work on this - when he actually went against his club members and all those hunters who voted against xbows, for his own personal gain - is just head shaking. What will anyone be able to believe that he writes anymore?

I posted this in a previous thread: Kill numbers, the gun/buck kill has been up every year since crossbows were allowed. Just last year the buck gun kill increased 5,429 with 13,303 less gun hunters than 2015. So to say that crossbows have had an impact on gun hunters, the numbers after two and three years don't prove what you are saying.

If the numbers had shown a decline, WBH would have been all over the state, using those numbers as propaganda to shorten the season. Many of those crossbow hunters are also gun hunters. Those guys like getting a chance at hunting the rut. Why is it that you people that claim crossbows damage the buck population aren't claiming the same for the youth hunt. In two days, the youth hunt claimed almost 3200 antlered deer. It took over a month for crossbows to claim that many. Now add in the no age requirement to hunt deer and that number will increase with all the new kids behind the gun. Where is the complaining over this? Maybe the youth hunter should be allowed to participate in the program for two years only. Think of the bucks saved.

Since when is the State of WI responsible for archery clubs membership? Archery Clubs have been on the decline before Crossbows were given inclusion. If a club fails, it is the club (both members and the board) that owns the reason for failure. Talking of Archery Clubs around the state, I see Blackhawk Bowhunters in Verona raffled off a crossbow, they even posted a picture of it on their FB page. Does that make sense?

And yes, many bowhunting clubs were in decline before the crossbow revolution, they just would not admit it.

That genie is out of the bottle, and its too bad,,,, no healthy hunter from 14 to 64 should be allowed one, if we are to have a archery season,,,, They are that effective, and wish Wisconsin leaders would wake up.......

At one time, they had it right, it was called the lesser weapon rule, where they could be allowed any time a firearm was legal,,,,,than all the whiners got involved,,,,,,,,

Wisconsin is going to see some more hard numbers this year,,,, time to give the unrestricted crossbow users, their own season, ,,,,,, Hopefully it will happen.....

You can say all you want about the compound, but not everyone is Levi Morgan, and it takes practice to be good with it, and because you have to pull it back, regardless of let off, it still is a weapon you need to make a commitment too..... Too those who say, well I do not need to practice, pick up the weapon, 2 weeks out and go, are usually poor hunters, or those who wounding rate is high, or just do not care,,,,,

As far as old guys on the WCC,,,, what do they care, if they are over 65 they can use them....

I remember the baloney, with all the therefores and other acronyms I had to use, to write a resolution, to be able to cut up a deer..... Well you thought those WCC board guys were gut shot,,,,,, Took way too long, to get if finally passed..... I went to the WCC meeting at the time, and respectfully addressed the committee, and told them they were out of touch with hard core hunters.......

I also think our NRB, is a lot better now, than what use to be on it,,,,,, the WCC well that process is too slow

Last night I watched Deer Hunting 2017, by Dan Small..... Tom Hauge, who retired, but my gut said, he was shown the door, you could hear the frustration in his voice, on present day deer mgt, disconcern for cwd, etc,,,,,,,

Now I do not know him, but have followed him as he was involved with the DNR, the guy was no dummy, but in the end, a politician knew more.......

No I do not see a limited crossbow season coming, wish it would, hope I am wrong, but I do not see it..........................

But who is to say precisely where such a line is to be drawn or whether it is even appropriate to draw? and why?

Should we go back to the native american ways? Self bows from local materials you gather and process yourself without tools? On foot.

Guess you can't drive to that hunting land, nor use that climbing stand. Hope you don't have corrected vision nor any modern medical advantages! Does this somehow magically apply to the weapon system only?

Don't pull out that cell phone to call your bud to help recover. And don't home base from that comfy home. This list could go on forever.

Seems what gets lost in the fog is 'legal or not'. Wisconsin deciders currently ( and far as I can tell always ) manage around population. Nothing about age/sex structure, trophy, or weapon systems. Go figger. Right now peeps in charge are influenced by $/special (non hunter) interests mostly aimed at herd reduction. Regardless of weapon system method used to fill your tag, the smart money is on deer management 101 as regards your own personal local future.

The only time any weapon is a threat is when the herd population is too low. Well, that doesn't happen much in WI (according to those managing herd size) and can be countered by tag limitations. Besides, if anyone thinks any particular weapon is disenfranchising their hunt they have to come to the realization that they themselves have that same opportunity. Everyone makes their own choice but not for someone else.

When would a special Xbow season be? The rut? After muzzle-loader? If weapon systems have relevance to management shouldn't they occur in the order of effectiveness? But we could never forgo the traditional firearm season timing - so that will never happen.

Effectiveness order order would have to be Stick bow, Vbow, Xbow, Muzz, then all Firearms. Keeping the trad 9 day week that puts Xbow and Muzz right in the rut. If this were the new schedule Xbow would probably last out till the January end and maybe even Muzzleloader could as well. We already have the antler-less only hunts and holiday hunt stuff - what difference would it make what weapons are used? Herd management is accomplished by tag issuance. Weapon type is almost irrelevant.

We already allow sophisticated Muzzleloaders, perhaps there should be a traditional flash pan hunt as well? Concurrent with Xbow or after?

DNR wants to get the job done. Legislators(majority R's)/Walker want to have more fun and reduce restrictions. Adding weapon choices and making hunting more convenient and successful for the hunter is what is currently going on. Reducing any season or weapon system is not in line with anyone making decisions. If somehow DNR limited Xbows new law would reverse that in days, assuming the gerrymandering and voter suppression remain.

Short answer: yes!

The new bill will allow the hunters that have difficulty visually confirming deer presence to actively engage deer that are behind cover or hillsides, increasing their chances for a successful harvest. The intentions of this bill are to entice new crowds into joining in the whitetail hunting sport. Last years 2020 bill allowing the use of belt-fed machine guns did not meet the expectations of 100% of the Wisconsin community.

*Regulations

-Max mortar round size: North of Interstate 94, 107mm, South of Interstate 94, 81mm

-High explosive rounds only, as incendiary rounds pose a risk for forest fires

-A sponge wring-out shall be submitted to Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources for zones that have tested positive for CWD

-Firing mortars from roadways or any moving vehicle is prohibited

-Mortarman shall use discretion in ensuring an ethical kill barrage before dropping their rounds