Summit Treestands
Carcass Tagging Proposals on NMG&F Web
New Mexico
Contributors to this thread:
78cj5 16-Nov-17
raceguy 16-Nov-17
ohiohunter 16-Nov-17
78cj5 16-Nov-17
raceguy 17-Nov-17
ohiohunter 17-Nov-17
78cj5 19-Nov-17
ohiohunter 20-Nov-17
78cj5 13-Dec-17
HDE 13-Dec-17
raceguy 14-Dec-17
priley 15-Dec-17
HDE 15-Dec-17
raceguy 17-Dec-17
priley 18-Dec-17
raceguy 18-Dec-17
priley 18-Dec-17
raceguy 18-Dec-17
priley 18-Dec-17
raceguy 18-Dec-17
raceguy 18-Dec-17
smarba 20-Dec-17
raceguy 20-Dec-17
raceguy 20-Dec-17
Coues HNTR 02-Jan-18
priley 03-Jan-18
HDE 03-Jan-18
butcherboy 05-Jan-18
raceguy 09-Jan-18
raceguy 09-Jan-18
HDE 09-Jan-18
raceguy 10-Jan-18
butcherboy 10-Jan-18
ohiohunter 10-Jan-18
raceguy 10-Jan-18
Oryx35 10-Jan-18
ohiohunter 10-Jan-18
raceguy 10-Jan-18
wilhille 11-Jan-18
HDE 11-Jan-18
Oryx35 11-Jan-18
raceguy 13-Jan-18
Oryx35 13-Jan-18
raceguy 13-Jan-18
raceguy 13-Jan-18
wilhille 15-Jan-18
wilhille 15-Jan-18
wilhille 15-Jan-18
mrelite 15-Jan-18
wilhille 15-Jan-18
raceguy 15-Jan-18
wilhille 15-Jan-18
raceguy 15-Jan-18
raceguy 15-Jan-18
From: 78cj5
16-Nov-17
Just looked at the proposals for rule changes. I asked some questions because I don't understand it all. Looks like we are getting carcass tags and antler tags. These have to be attached before any part of the animal is taken from the field. No more of the old days of filling out and attaching at vehicle. Also saw something about proof of sex naturally attached so I don't know if we are going to have to leave a testicle or teat attached or if the skullcap with hide attached is good enough. Mainly I am looking at the clean proposal updated 11-9-17. Proposed Statute 19.31.10.9 F and G.

From: raceguy
16-Nov-17
Good catch. Soon we will look like skiers with a truckload of lift passes attached to our jackets to fill a tag.

From: ohiohunter
16-Nov-17
If they expect the antler tag to be attached will they provide weather proof tags? B/c a day of rain or a good wet antler and a piece of paper aren't exactly a good combination. Thanks for the update, please keep us informed.

From: 78cj5
16-Nov-17
I am thinking they will be tags like at the hospitals or concerts. The problem is if you rip the tag coming out of the field it is void and you will be cited and animal taken. Waiting for answers.

From: raceguy
17-Nov-17
78cj5, you mean those quasi paper bracelets?

From: ohiohunter
17-Nov-17
If they do send out tags guess who will absorb the cost of the tags and postage? Long time ago after the paper and string tags ohio sold you long plasticy 2-3" wide sticker tag. You had to fill out w/ a pen, but they were pretty tough esp when you sandwiched the adhesives together. But again there is far far more cost involved compared to the current system in place. Now it is all hand written telephone check in, that would be disastrous to NM wildlife, seems way to easy to scam.

From: 78cj5
19-Nov-17
Ohiohunter--The reason they are doing this is now you print your tag at home. I don't think many would do this but you can kill an animal, fill out the tag, and take it home. If you are not checked and say it is opening day on a two week elk season, you can reprint your tag and go back to hunting with out anybody the wiser.

From: ohiohunter
20-Nov-17
No doubt some less than honest folks have done just that. If they want to keep people honest start making them check in their animals. Either at designated locations or via telephone. At some point post hunt you will have cell service if you doe not pass a check in station. This will give G&F and cross reference, so you've tagged out, Warden check your tag while hunting. Boom, hit.. "says here sir you're tagged out". Processors can only accept valid checked in carcass tags. Its rather simple and via telephone everything is computer. This is how they are doing it back east with deer, compared to elk and moose, midwest deer might as well be treated like small game. Ever since I've been introduced to the west's tagging system I was perplexed at how an animal carrying so much more value than a deer back home is so loosely monitored.

IMO the answer is in front of our face, unless there is something outside of the system's straight forwardness, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

From: 78cj5
13-Dec-17
The carcass tagging is going to be like the tags they use in AZ. I have never hunted AZ so can't explain that further. One for carcass and one for antlers. If you kill a female then the antler tag is not used. The difference is when you buy your tag it will take a week or two to get the carcass and antler tags to you in the mail. Two numbers will be on your license, the license number and the generated carcass tag numbers. Every time you reprint your license it issues a new carcass tag number, new tags to be mailed to you, invalidating the previous carcass tags. If you lose your license a week or two before the hunt you will have to stop by a regional office to get new carcass tags.

From: HDE
13-Dec-17
Best thing G&F ever did was allow you to print your license off and go hunting. Stupid to go back to a validate and mail.

Of course, I only speak of abiding by the law and shooting only one [legal] animal.

The villages in NM will still shoot and consume year-round...

From: raceguy
14-Dec-17
Thanks 78cj5. Not familiar with AZ rules either.

HDE The only thing I can think of is that many in rural NM do not have easy access to the internet, much less a printer.

From: priley
15-Dec-17
I'm pretty sure rural NM has had internet access since the Bush admin, part of no child left behind. That was DSL but anyone could print a license.

From: HDE
15-Dec-17
I just know that being able to print your license at home and no carcass tags is the best thing when you have LO permits.

Sometimes you have to time your hunt according to weather for migration, etc.

Also having multiple copies to put in a truck or camper before you go in case you forget to put one in your pocket or daypack.

From: raceguy
17-Dec-17
Priley, I'm pretty sure they don't. Go visit the local bowshop in Alamagordo, if he's still in business which I hope he is. Nothing but dial up AOL, and they drive to Mescalero to apply with G&F.

edit: that was 3 years ago, things may have changed post Bush. Go to Mora! LOL the only technolgy is at the Allsups! There's plenty who don't have access to the internet in rural NM. Maybe cell phone but outside of Albuquerque, Santa Fe and Cruces, it's limited.

From: priley
18-Dec-17
Thats BS raceguy. Anyone that would drive from Alamagordo to Mescalero for internet access should have stopped at McDonalds.

Every residence in rual NM with a land line has access to DSL.

From: raceguy
18-Dec-17
Priley, take your BS wherever it is. G&F actually had an application site in Mescalero for the locals when they went to online applications. Get your facts strait. Do you realize that people in the sticks don't even have a landline? I know a few and it's wierd how they live. Maybe you can get McDonalds to dig a trench for them.

From: priley
18-Dec-17

priley's embedded Photo
From NMGF
priley's embedded Photo
From NMGF
Really? You are sticking with this BS? Ok even if there are a few that can't print a license or tags they can call NMGF toll free.

Show me a household with out cell phones, hell Obama phones are everywhere.

From: raceguy
18-Dec-17
Ever been out to Zuni or Mora? Good luck with your cellphone out there. That's why G&F had application centers located around the state. Tucumcari, Raton, and Alamagordo all had application centers for the locals. Go down to Alamagordo and talk with the shop owner himself. His shop is a singlewide on a dirt road and he didn't have an email address so I could stay in touch.

From: priley
18-Dec-17
Are you suggesting there is no cellular service in tucumcarri raton alamagordo? Thats BS, there might be NMGF application centers but it is not because there's no cell service. I have been in some areas of the state without coverage but its not far to areas with coverage. The tag system we have now is very convenient and I personally love it, but not being a poacher I hadn't realised how easy to cheat the system it is. They should change it, I don't what we need but it needs changing.

From: raceguy
18-Dec-17
Never said Tucumcari, Raton or Alamagordo didn't have cell service. That's just where G&F went so that people in outlying communities could drive to town and apply. Confirm it with them if you like. I know things are alot better but when I travel to Zuni for business I loose my Verizon signal ten minutes after making a left in Gallup and never get it back. Sometimes I might get a bar near Ramah but people have to drive up to Grants for a decent signal and go to Walmart. Same thing in alot of northern communities. My ex has family in Mora and relies mostly on text messaging as cell phone calls constantly get dropped. Mountains can wreak havock on cell signals and their land lines are soo old and outdated they cant carry much data.

I like the current system and don't understand the need to make wholsale changes. People have gotten used to it and make arrangements to apply. To my knowledge, G&F no longer does the application centers.

From: raceguy
18-Dec-17

From: smarba
20-Dec-17
Our current system makes it very easy/convenient to have a tag in your pocket/pack and a spare in the truck in case you somehow misplace your tag.

But it also makes it very easy for poachers to always have a notched/filled out tag with every one of the animals they kill if they happen to cross paths with a G&F officer.

No matter what system is implemented, poachers will be poachers though.

From: raceguy
20-Dec-17
"No matter what system is implemented, poachers will be poachers though"

Yep. I'd be curious as to know how many poachers even bother applying. I honestly don't know. Some may just buy a turkey tag if they are worried about getting stopped in the field.

Is there a way that G&F can allow only one downloadable license which can only be printed once? It would be the same as getting one license in the mail. Any techies here?

From: raceguy
20-Dec-17

From: Coues HNTR
02-Jan-18
If it is like the Az tag then it will be a self destructing sticker that after applied then it will self void if tried to be taken apart. I see no need for two different tags one should suffice.

From: priley
03-Jan-18
hell I don't care what kind of tags they change over to as long as I draw one. I'll even drive to Santa Fe to pick it up.

From: HDE
03-Jan-18
It's dumb. Really dumb.

From: butcherboy
05-Jan-18
To me a poacher is someone who willfully kills an animal for the head, no tag, and leaves the animal to rot. Those people will not be putting in for the draw. Most hunters who draw a tag are law abiding and terrified of breaking game laws and getting fined or losing privileges. I see no reason to change the license and tag system we have now.

As for internet service or cell service, there are places that have neither of them but access is available by other means. Heck, I can drive across NAPI and lose service or out to the Carson Jic Ranger district, or even just fishing out on Navajo Lake! Lol I’m not far away from quick acces though.

From: raceguy
09-Jan-18
Exactly butcherboy. Putting more rules and resources on otherwise law abiding people really does nothing to crack down on poaching.

I agree, most could travel to get access but it's an inconvenience. Traditional mail-in apps are out making it a tad more difficult for those in rural communities to apply. I know its easier on the budget, but I'm not sure it helps with the poaching problem. G&F might be better off focusing on poaching instead of creating a new tag rule for law abiders. Spend the time and money on the real problems.

From: raceguy
09-Jan-18
I'm curious, how many here have been checked for a license while in the field in NM? In all my years I've only been checked once while fishing from the bank at Eagle Nest. Never hunting and that includes big game and small.

From: HDE
09-Jan-18
Been checked twice. Once in 1990 in unit 2 (2A now) and then again in 2001 (2B now), both on deer hunts. And on the WSMR oryx hunt I did in 2001 as well so three times I guess.

From: raceguy
10-Jan-18
The sobriety checkpoints in unit 9 (San Louis) and 17 (Magdalena) don't count BTW. LOL

From: butcherboy
10-Jan-18
Checked once in 2a, twice in 2b, and once in 6a

From: ohiohunter
10-Jan-18
Been checked at least 4x in about 7yrs. In fact just checked this past saturday.

BTW, the new proc is online and the carcass tags are in effect

From: raceguy
10-Jan-18
Thanks ohio! Seems like G&F is focusing on unit 2 for deer from the previous posts. Understandibly so.

From: Oryx35
10-Jan-18
I've been checked in 21, 22 twice, 24, 53, and WSMR twice. Probably a few others I'm forgetting. Border Patrol has also stopped me multiple times in 25 and 26.

From: ohiohunter
10-Jan-18
I'm hunting 32, and it happened to be the 37 warden covering for absent warden.... in the back of my mind I was thinking.. 37 has a deer season too! lol.. whatever big brother gov't wants to do, they'll do I guess.

From: raceguy
10-Jan-18
Sounds like they are stepping things up. My family had a cabin in 6 (jemez) and I was never checked in 10 years (prior to draw). Have drawn 9 twice, 16c three, and 17 three times for elk and never saw an officer in the field. Maybe thats why my opinion is a little slant, but it's good to hear they are out there checking.

Unfortunately, NM is a big state with a little budget. We need more officers.

From: wilhille
11-Jan-18
In regards to the Border Patrol, I got pulled over by Border Patrol in July on a county maintained road, with weapons drawn pointed at me yelling to see my hands. Then the "officer" while yelling at me to show my hands, told me to roll down the passenger window. While doing so he raised his weapon at me and aggressively advanced towards me screaming to put my hands up again. I told him "You told me to roll it down! Im an American!" He then started screaming "I don't know you bro! I don't know you Bro!" After he gathered himself and calmed down, I continued on my way. Guns pulled on me because he "didn't know" me and he wanted to pull someone over. F@#$ the BP. Coincidently, I audio recorded this event because I thought it was strange that out of nowhere I was getting pulled over. You can hear all of it. I could have been shot because he felt "threatened" when I "reached" for something when he told me to roll down the window. They can pull over anyone at anytime? Oh it is in the name of "security." Disabled Veteran Plates, Army Unit stickers and License plate on my vehicle. Sounds like a suspicious vehicle to me. Do your job on the border and stop harassing Americans. Rant over lol. As far as legally getting stopped and checked, been checked in 23 elk, 24 deer, 16 fishing.

From: HDE
11-Jan-18
That cop was out of line and needs to be jack-slapped...

From: Oryx35
11-Jan-18
Wil, that's pretty crazy! Fortunately my interactions with BP have been pretty tame. They mostly just wanted to know what I'm doing, where I'm going, how long I'll be around and if I've seen anything. Most didn't care that I was armed and didn't get out of their vehicle (usually put on their lights and pulled up beside me when I stopped).

From: raceguy
13-Jan-18
Will, knowing you personally.....damn dude! Why does trouble follow you lol? How's that record bull being poached a few years ago out of the area you hunt feeling? You could have had him! And knowing you, you probably knew generally where he was at!

As far a being checked, I only considered "in the field". I've been checked once at camp right next to a forrest road, where they drove up. Yet I've never seen them walking around in the middle of NF. I know that's too much to ask, but that's where a lot of poaching comes from.

From: Oryx35
13-Jan-18
Raceguy, the poaching may happen in the field but I imagine the evidence often gets taken to a truck or camp. For the number of officers available I'm not sure it's worth the return on investment to have them in "the field" for most units. Obviously the wilderness area are the exception. I've never been checked in the field per se, but on oryx, antelope and deer hunts I have had them watch me through a spotting scope and then meet me at the truck as I was leaving.

From: raceguy
13-Jan-18
You might be right Oryx, but there is still a very low deterent from being caught. Our laws are not like Texas, that there they are actually enforced. They loose a truck and house in the case of civil restitution "if" you are caught. Poaching is a problem here and that's why we are discussing it.

Officers are spread amongst the state, but the focus is on premium hunt areas (as noted above) and focused checkpoints, not in smaller mountain areas where I know for a fact that poaching runs rampit. It's like a familiy heritage to just go out, they know where the local warden lives and where he/she goes. It's scary.

Wilhille got caught cheeting. LOL just making fun at u bro

From: raceguy
13-Jan-18
Did I just say "that there" in my post? Insert Jeff Foxworthy joke....

From: wilhille
15-Jan-18
Got caught cheating? What?

From: wilhille
15-Jan-18
Don't be putting my name and cheating in a post about poaching greg. I've never poached I don't know wtf you're talking about. I don't even get the joke if there is one.

From: wilhille
15-Jan-18
I'm pissed about this. I don't know what joke you're trying to make but I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm no cheater.

From: mrelite
15-Jan-18
wilhille, for what it's worth and as someone just reading the thread, I didn't read it as any implication but just as raceguy trying to make light (not necessarily a joke) of the unjust of the border patrol harassing you.

From: wilhille
15-Jan-18
I probably overreacted. I'm sure there was a joke that I'm not understanding. In fact I'm embarrassed that I maybe did overreact. I'll wait until Greg and I talk. I will call him.

From: raceguy
15-Jan-18
I'm sorry bro, I know you you don't poach or anything. You a are upstanding father and served our country. Like you said, you have a veteran licensce plate and unit stickers on your truck but still got harrased. I was making fun out of the fact that law abiding citizens like yourself get harrased when the real problems are elsewhere.

I have a bad sense of humor, my apologies.

From: wilhille
15-Jan-18
Thanks Greg. Like I said I'm embarrassed I came to the conclusion I did. I'll call you tonight and I'm sorry I even went down that route. I knew better.

From: raceguy
15-Jan-18
It's all good my friend!

From: raceguy
15-Jan-18
Willhile is the most honest guy I've known. A good hunter and a gentlemen. I'm proud to have him as a friend. Unfortunaley, my words on the internet might get mixed up. I know Willhile and if he ever saw a poacher.......watch out, he's one of the good guys. Sound's like he got screwed.

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