.223 as a deer rifle
Wisconsin
So I thought I would toss this out for debate, is the .223 a large enough caliber for deer. Under WI law, unless I'm mistaken, its legal to use. Found this interesting as we have been debating its use in our hunting group. Any thoughts?
I've used it along with my son using the same rifle when I mentored him. It was in a AR15 configuration. Shot placement is a must, but it totally does the job. Haven't had deer go further than 20 yards after the shot. I've never used factory rounds. I reload, so I used a Sierra 65 grain soft point and it works well.
In a perfect world, with a perfect shot, yes, it'll do the job, but then so would a slingshot.
Kinetic energy 450gr arrow@300fps=90
180gr bullet@2700fps=2914
53gr@3100fps=1131
It can be argued till the cows come home which kills. What is excess killing power.
I personally use 53gr Solid copper (to avoid Pb injestion) in .223. I know my limitations, mainly distance and choose it over .284 for deer. If you can't consistently hit boiler room, no bullet should be launched. As a bow hunter, we pass on poor shots, that's why we kill with arrows.
A lower grain bullet can be just as effective as a heavy grain bullet at closer range as a lower grain projectile may not exit (wasted energy). I have lots of experience using .223 and it works perfectly for me. If it had failed me ever, I wouldn't be using it as my preferred caliber. Most often than not, deer get knocked off their feet and drop. I concur, 20 yards is furthest I have had one go. Last year, a boiler room shot with .284 ran 140 yards, that doesn't mean it is less effective than a .223. It was however, a pass-thru! Food for thought.
Wouldn't be my first choice, but consider this.. People consider the 357 magnum one of the best handgun rounds for deer hunting. The 223 has a muzzle energy of 1280 ft lbs with a 55 grain bullet. The 357 has a muzzle energy of around 650 ft lbs depending on the bullet. I know people aren't shooting deer at long ranges with a 357 but a 223 will also carry more energy at longer distances. Another thing to consider is the bullet diameter. You're not going to leave as large of hole with a 223 but more likely to have a pass through. All in all I would say that if you're a competent shot with a rifle, you shouldn't have an issue killing a deer with a 223. Like I said, it wouldn't be my first choice, but I don't see why it wouldn't do the job.
I forgot to mention, pass through could be good or bad. Pass through means less energy transferred to the target. But it could also mean more blood with a big exit hole. Just food for though....
Excellent points all around I do own a .223 in Ar platform but I prefer my 12 gauge ( mostly because my shots are 50 yards or less) I use the .223 for coyote incidentally if you have a yote problem let me know id be more than willing to collect a few this winter!
I wouldn't reach for a .223 round for deer hunting personally, but they definitely get the job done.
Two of my brother in laws use them. Between them, 4 deer taken last 5 years. 3 of which were 3+ year old bucks. Not one went over 70 yards after.
As others have stated, shot placement is crucial. Everyone has a made a bad shot a few times in their hunting career. I wouldn't want to accidently hit a deer in the paunch with a .223, much more likely to be a lost deer than with a bigger caliber I would have to believe.....
And will agree with others too that round type needs to be taken carefully into consideration. Definitely wont be hunting deer with your AR FMJs.
Not the best choice but it will work. Quality bullets are a must!
I let my younger gramdkids use a 223. Less recoil & muzzle jump . I use 69 gr bullets with a stout load . The are limited to 75 yards. The load I use is just a tad less than a 243 .
However I see no reason for an adult to use a 223 .
I use a 6mm sometimes which is very close to a .243 It's all about placement. People make the same mistake with gut shot deer hit by gun that they do with bow --- they go look to fast. My opinion anyways.
24.5 grains of IMR 4895, 65 grain Sierra softpoint with a federal match primer is my load of choice.
6.8 spc is my cartridge of choice for woods deer hunting, in an AR platform . 85g bullet at a little under 3000fps (not that much more KE than a 5.56/.223, but .27 cal. Utilizes the same AR-15 lower). With a chest shot, deer tend to go about 20-30 yards—same as with my .308. Probably taken 20+ deer with it. A lot of my buddies have switched over to that chambering and platform because the light recoil allows for very fast follow-ups in thick stuff. .223 shouldn’t be much different. Just gotta put the hole where it belongs.
I dropped a doe 4 years ago with a .223 - 10 yards and dead. That said, I’ve moved to a 6.8 SPC since and all deer have DRT.
This is gonna be fun. Everybody who gets a deer report how dead it is and what magnum they used.
This is how silly the question is...the ability of a .223 to kill a deer. Just like broadheads, everybody has an opinion. Some like cannons, some don't. Personally, I like to see the deer drop and field dress liquified lungs. That's exactly what you get with high powered rifles...even .223. As skilled archers, I would hope you can see that a high-powered rifle is no challenge. I will be carrying my bow after opener, after I get a deer with my trusty Winchester.
After the military and law enforcement career, the last gun I want to see, is anything with an AR platform...... give me a nice classic, good looking bolt in 308 or 30.06, the look and feel of the woods,,,,, now we are deer hunting,,,,,
I am too old school,,,,, ha ha
I'm looking into .277 wolverine. My dad built one and loves it. He's going to be using it this year for deer hunting in Texas. Only thing it would require is a barrel swap on my current AR15 and head spacing.
Wildcats can have their downsides: fun to play with, but can be problematic. Had a .300 whisper prior to .300 BLK’s creation. It was problematic. First and last wildcat chambering. I still hand load almost all of my rifle rounds, but won’t go back to a wildcat
My son got an ar 223 a couple yrs ago for my granddaughters to use. Grandson used it 2 yrs ago and it worked fine. Im with razor on the old woodstock guns. I have a 30-06 from 1954 (my dads gun) and a 300 savage from the 40's (gramps gun). My son and grandson use them now.
Savage Model 12 SS Bull Barrel Fluted 26" 63 grain Sierra SP bullets w/ Bushnell Elite 4200 4 x 12 scope with adj. obj. This setup shoots a 10 shot group of just over a 1/3 of an inch at 100 yards off the bench. I use this setup to harvest a lot of antlerless deer. I do take a lot of head shots only at standing deer out to 200 yards. My favorite setup is my Winchester Model 70 .270 with a 26" Shilen Barrel with 150 grain Berger VLD's on top of 52 grains of IMR 4350. She shoots a 3 inch group off the bench at 800 yards. Berger bullets are famous for turning organs into jelly and dropping deer and elk in their tracks.
My 13 year old put a lot of rounds through a Ruger M77 .243 this year and the recoil didn't bother her. Actually it was kind of scary how well she shot it! Too bad I couldn't get a deer in front of her.
Save your money, why not buy. A 243 or 25-06. In a Browning X bolt hunt with class!!
I read an interesting article about this same topic a few years ago. The guy writing the article had chronicled all of his deer kills from several States over the course of many years, 100's of deer. He used everything from .223 to .300 Mag to 50 cal ml to 12 ga shotgun. When all was said and done, the caliber that had the shortest tracking jobs ended up being the .223, the average of the (about 50, if I remember correctly) deer was something like 13 yards, where the next average was something like 50 yards. He said that the .223 was by far his favorite gun to deer hunt with, thus giving that caliber more kills than the others. He did say that shot placement was absolute key to shorter tracking and that he always seemed to make better shots with the .223, which he attributed to the lack of recoil, which in turn left him more relaxed for the shot and didn't flinch with the expectation of a heavy recoil.
It was a very interesting article, I wish that I would have paid more attention to the author of the article. I remember another article about brush guns, everyone thinks that shotgun slugs are best for brush...but 12 ga deflected more than the 20 ga, which was considerably more than the worst rifle. I believe the 30-30 was the worst rifle for deflection. Speed was a big factor in deflection, but projectile shape and rotation were the biggest factors. The longer cylindrical shape of a rifle bullet, compared to the "ballish" shape of a shotgun slug, along with the high rate of rotation would actually correct itself to very near its original flight path. Once a shotgun slug gets deflected off course, it continues off course. So, at the end of that article, the author was completely surprised at the end results, that made the smaller, high speed calibers better brush guns than the always thought larger, slower projectiles.
Just a little more food for thought.
Interesting Fivers. I believe a lot of people who are against smaller calibers base their thoughts on anecdotal evidence. I think of it like broadheads. Damned be broadhead "A", terrible bloodtrail and lost big buck because of it. Then, broadhead "B", could have been blind-folded and deer went 10 yards. All of a sudden, broadheads "B" has a new salesperson. Shot placement is key, regardless. And that can be said for bullets.
A whitetail deer can amply be killed with a smaller high-powered rifle. Even if using a .50 cal. rifle, shot placement is critical. You don't need more than 100% dead.
The advantage to a small caliber is just what you stated. High speed energy is amazing.
The deer I got this year with 53grain Barnes ended 100% dead. Very consistent with past performance and another reason why it is my favorite for WI style hunting. I could use my 7mm mag, but quite honestly, those deer make more distance. I also like not having to see a visible baseball sized hole all the way through the deer. 120% dead is not needed.
Over 10 deer have been taken by myself and my son with that pesky .223 round. A few have dropped in their tracks with the rest going 2-20 yards. Lungs turned to jelly if hit broadside. My son shot his first deer with one at 120 yards. Shot entered near left shoulder and exited right shoulder. Split the heart in half. His 2nd deer the same year was shot broadside and took two steps and tipped over. Deer was maybe 60-70 yards away when it was shot.
