Looks like numbers were down
Wisconsin
My guess is the really # are not down . But the reporting of the Deer are .
My guess is weather was not the best. My guess is there were indeed less deer harvested. My guess is the same violators as before, violated again. My guess is those same law abiding citizens registered their harvested deer. However, I know nothing, except I heard very little shooting both Saturday and Sunday, which was very unusual. I heard this from all my friends, which leads me to believe that less deer were killed. I also have heard the same thing from many hunters saying gun season doesn't have that same thrill it used to.
Could it be 2 things both around the crossbow.
1) more gun hunters are now crossbow hunters and prefer hunting when the weather is better and the Rut. (Fair weather hunters)
2) crossbow hunters are burned out on deer hunting by time gun season rolls around. Being they are spending more time in the woods than before.
Same here C2D. Not one shot heard this afternoon.
I never saw a deer opening weekend neither did my hunting buddy. Not much shooting around us either. In St Croix county.
Not surprised. Wasn't much shooting by us either. I don't think the deer even knew it was gun season.
Could be there aren`t the number of DEER that they think....everyone has been saying that FOR YEARS. I certainly don`t see them like it was many moons ago and the area is EXACTLY the same.
It's because of all the new poachers the state encouraged by doing away with tags ;-)
Hunting has changed, so weather and rut timing has a bigger impact than it did many moons ago. Some of the smaller changes are better ammo and optics, which results in fewer shots, the biggest changes are smaller groups, less drives, enclosed blinds, portable heaters, cell phones, fragmented land with smaller unhuntable properties that create sanctuaries for deer and many other things. Most of these cause less disturbance in the deer woods, everyone has their way to and from their stands with many sitting from dark to dark. Now days most hunters sneak to their stand well before season opens, since the stand is enclosed with a heater, so they don't have to worry about getting froze out before shooting time, don't have to worry about walking around to warm up, since the stand is heated. There is no reason to walk over to see how your buddy is doing for the day and see if they've seen any deer, just send them a text to get your answer or send a text if you want to head out for a while and sneak back out and meet at the truck.
After all of that, throw in game cameras, so you know what bucks are in the area, and hunters are more selective on the deer that they want to shoot. To go along with that, it seems that less and less hunters actually hunt for the meat, so it doesn't matter as much if they eat their tag for the year.
That's my take on why the kill is down and less sightings from years ago. I don't see it getting much better either, even with higher deer populations.
Fivers very good synapsis.
I too believe the deer numbers are down. I know that I will be taking the time to attend my county CDAC meetings.
I agree with most of what Fivers posted except what I see around here most hunters leave stand around 10 AM and return around 2 PM each day. Very few all dayers out there.
Kill numbers but not the kill are down because fewer bothering to register deer. My guess is around 30% fail to register deer. Just a guess from what I hear hunters saying about what they do with registering. For those that say deer numbers are down: 1. How would anyone know since registration is a joke and no way accurate? 2. In my area from personal observations and camera photos, deer numbers are up.
Overall, from my sightings all season (bow and gun), deer numbers are up (especially young bucks) on the property I hunt. One stand in particular has produced multiple sightings each day. Only 1 deer taken by our youngest hunter out of it, however. Everyone else hunting out of it has passed every antlerless and small buck that was seen.
I think it is a combination of everything mentioned.... I think the deer mgt has to take a long hard look at it, would be interesting to hear from them in the future, of what they think,,,,,,,,, Hunting is so much different , in different areas....... By my house, deer drives if very popular, but its all family and invite only, all controlled, and all big connected farms,,, But they move a lot of deer, there is a lot of shooting, and deer are moving,,,,, I heard a lot of shooting around my house opening weekend....
My partner now in Vernon County, said it was like a funeral there, hardly much shooting, no deer really moving, lots of corn up......
my friend in Florence Co, saw a lot of deer bowhunting, but nothing much for gun,,, lots of guys in the woods, all sitting on baits, that invasion pretty much puts the bucks down,,,,, a reason to take up late season bow hunting or ml.....
In general, fewer hunters,,,,,, my brother in laws, both in Waupaca Co and Adam Co, everyone is in a condo stand,,,, no one moves, not many deer move, and there is plenty of deer, its like a chest match,,,,,
in general hard to say,,,,,, I think the deer mgt in the state is screwed up, no one seems to be on the same page
The registration system is a joke. It actually encourages more deer to be killed at a lesser price. No one has to buy more tags if they cut their own deer. Thus the registerated number of deer will be down. Probably not by 14000 but some of that number is due to what I said. Incredibly stupid law.
In Richland county, every hunter received 4 doe tags with their archery and 4 doe tags with their gun license. When the department (CDAC) promotes this kind of slaughter, why would anyone think there is concern for a few unregistered deer?
One more thing,,,, most states have call in registration, some have none at all, except for a survey card, but from South Dakota to MI, they due require a tag on the animal.....
and they don't print out a sheet 4 feet long, a simple small square tag, easy to use, and to put on,,,,,,,,,
GH, I agree. How in the world do other states manage their deer herd? Despite what we read here, the sky is not falling.
Interesting that the numbers are so far down after 2 winters that have been relatively easy.
I personally have seen the same amount of deer as past years in RC but my family who hunts in Green Lake County saw far fewer. What I do know is that those who saw nothing will tell you that the numbers are way down.
Re: Violators. I like to believe that hunters fall into 2 categories, Those who follow the rules and those who don't. I believe most will register their deer, regardless of how it's done.
Other factors include hunting interest on the decline, terrible weather on opening day, more opportunities to take a deer pre-gun season and the other issue is CWD. Some of the new studies involving primates are cause for concern. Everyone should get their deer tested. This has no doubt impacted some of the meat hunters.
Lastly, what change in harvest is just random occurrence and what indicates a decline in numbers AND how do you accurately measure deer numbers?
I really think that the registration system isn't as bad as some think. It's so easy to register, and easy to buy more tags-why would people risk trouble by skipping it. I know of a group that always cut up their deer at camp. Never wanted the hassle of running to a registration station, honestly due to excessive drinking leaving camp just didn't happen. They had licences and never took anything they didn't have tagged, but never ever was one registered. Now they register at camp on cell phone. Simple. I also know local guys who where embarrassed about occasionally taking a fawn or little spike. To embarrassed to have people see them at the bar registering. Now those are more likely to be registered online where no one sees them. The downfall I see is I think more guys are taking small bucks knowing that no one sees how small of a buck they took. While perfectly legal, a little frustrating for neighbors with let it go/grow mentality. I heard very few shots compared to years past. However more single shots than unloading of guns. Maybe the use of rifles now being aloud and gaining popularity is helping make more kill shots than shotgun miss's?
From the newspaper
New age or not, Kleefisch’s rule package isn’t unique. Although Wisconsin is the first big Northern state to eliminate carcass tags for deer hunting, Connecticut and New Jersey don’t use them, and Kentucky abolished them several years ago. Further, most Southeastern states never used them, including Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Tennessee, North Carolina and South Carolina. In Canada, only British Columbia doesn’t require carcass tags.
In fact, several states, including Michigan, don’t require deer hunters to register their kills. Others not requiring registration are Texas, Kansas, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, North Dakota, South Dakota, South Carolina and Saskatchewan.
Its hard to get away or leave a tradition...because that's all we have known.
Between my 2 boys and I in the C.N.F., we saw 12 deer opening day. Others saw 0 in our camp. But, My boys and I hunted the way we used to always hunt. You go on your stands, and I will come through at a certain time. The ones in camp who just sit, did not see anything. When the Rut is done, or the bucks are tending the does that aren't moving, it's the only way your going to get deer. Too many guys sit and stair at there bait pile and wonder what has eaten all that corn and will not move.
Northbound, I agree with your Rifle/ Shotgun comment. This is just a comment from someone that has been gun hunting 50 years now (God I'm getting old) years ago at my start I was a pioneer using a shotgun with a scope on it. Most in my camp used smooth bore 12 gauges with a bead on it. A few had iron sites. Many many misses in a season. I would hear 100 shots in the first few hours, this year I heard less than 40 in 2 full days of sitting. All were single shots this year but one 3 shot volley. Years ago, few had a tree stand for gun hunting let alone a warm shooting house/ Lodge that kept them warm. After a few hours a few people would walk around to warm up, thus bumping a deer or 2 that would go onto the neighbors land and you would hear a volley of shots from that direction. In a few hours later you would hear a drive going on a different neighbors property and here comes a herd for everybody to unload on. Many deer had more than 1 hole in them. Now it seems like there are more 1 well placed shots. In our group we have become lazy with our well made clothing and comfortable stands. We get to our stands in the dark and we don't leave them until its dark just because of the risk of bumping a deer. No wonder we don't see as many deer. My neighbors all do the same thing. The 5 bucks and 4 fawns that I saw this past weekend were all natural movement. What are we thinking? Is this a better way to hunt? I don't know. But different it is compared to what was. Just my humble observations..
I saw zero deer opening weekend, granted I'm sitting public and my bow stands which don't offer long views to really have an advantage with gun. I feel gun season just puts everything on lockdown. Not gun shots but as a group gun hunters don't care as much about scent control, wind directions, intrusion, ext.... So, with this idea, Monday I decided to still hunt (scout for next year). Kicked up a young buck and a doe shortly after the buck. (Doe is in my freezer). Yesterday same tactic different public grounds. 4 fawns and 2 does got up 20 yards from me. One doe I swear I hit good but can't find any blood. The others slowly trotted off, jumped those 5 again about 80 yards away, that time they took off in a hurry. All said maybe sitting all day is great for preserving more big bucks for bow season next year, I don't think it's near as productive as gun hunting pushed deer. Wish me luck at finding a white belly with the drone this afternoon. The doe from yesterday ran into cattail marsh, no blood to track and grid searched best I could. I only killed one deer with a gun (3030) years ago, zero blood, watched it fall in 50 yards no exit. Then the one Monday (270wsm) no blood, watched it fall in 20 yards no exit. Am I just spoiled by massive rage blood trails? Do rifles not make big enough holes? I don't come from a line of hunters, self taught so I'm honestly asking
Live 2 Hunt..... what a great post,,,,, 2 years ago, I crossed a ridge, saw a young hunter in his 30's, on a ground blind,,,, He said " mister what are you doing, walking around, its opening weekend",,,,,, I smiled and said, I will make a wide cut, so not to bother your area, good luck......
Later that week, at the watering hole, I saw him, he bought me a beer,,,, he said he saw only one deer,,,,, sat all the time, for 4 days..... I told him I saw 13, and shot one,,,,,,
I also explained to him, the northwoods has changed,,,,, there are baits everywhere, an invasion of guys and gals have come up, are sitting all over the place, scent is swirling, atv and trucks in and out, I said, them bucks are hunkered down,,,, this is not like private land.....
He said to me, how do you know where you are going, without snow, or a gps, and what do you do, when your too far from the truck,,,,,,,,, I said, I make a fire, and eat a hot lunch,,,,,,,,,
My most exciting times to hunt with my rifle is when there is 4 + inches of snow. I'm still hunting all day, that is generally when I get my deer.
Posted on wrong thread...sorry...
northbound, a short answer to your question would be a bullet kills by something called hydrostatic shock. Ever notice a lung shot deer how the lungs are totally destroyed or how much meat is blood shot from a shoulder or ham hit? This shock is carried through the fluids of the body to the nervous system, it has greater effect when vital organs are hit. Bullet shot deer frequently don't bleed as dramatically as a bow shot one. An arrow on the other hand does it's damage by blood loss or spinal hit. So unless your using a muzzle loader or shotgun your bullet holes are small.
CaptMike, to answer your question: How in the world do other states manage their deer herd? They don't. They have little idea of what is out there and they do not have the deer population or harvest Wisconsin has or had in the past.
So some of you guys are all for wardens coming on your land any time. As a necessity to do their job. But you also don't think them being able to check if deer were tagged properly was good? Taking the tagging requirement away also hinders them.
Smoked, Texas has one of the highest deer populations in the country and is 95% private, meaning the people do most of the management. Maybe WI is taking the wrong approach?
Capt, I hope you aren't suggesting WI should have all public land be private, there is nothing right with that. That is what makes WI great for hunters, we have a lot of public land where all can hunt. Not just the rich.
Texas is 200,000 square miles larger than Wi.
Wisconsin is 2nd (after Kentucky) for deer density at 18/sqmile.
Texas is 15/sqmile
Weren't people just complaining about how bad deer hunting is here on another thread.
https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines-and-backstrap/top-10-midwestern-states-ranked-by-deer-per-square-mile
Live2, of course not. My point is that Texas has a very healthy deer herd and it is mostly managed by the landowners. Smokey is attempting to make a case that WI is far different from other states, which I disagree with.
Rut, taking the tagging requirement away does not hinder them in the least. They can and should, still check people with dead deer to make sure they are properly reported.
High fence makes no difference with my point. It is still the landowners who are managing the herd.
2nd week of deer camp moto. Complain about not seeing any deer till Thanksgiving. Brown is down afterwards.
Since gun season started my oasis of deer have become a desert . Must be because of all the pickup size bait pile's on the neighbors . Makes me mad but it's the same every year .
"Must be because of all the pickup size bait pile's on the neighbors"
If in fact your neighbors really are baiting like that. Turn their asses in. Either you are part of the problem, or part of the solution.
Wi St. has manage for the private not for the public, just go back in time of the T-Zone on where it all went upside down. I was living smack into it and the private just hunted public and protected their own while decimated the public and the state is always is driven by the private lobbyist. RutnStut, Deer Baiting 2000 should have ended the this issue, still would like to know where the $1 million went?
The state of WI just recently addressed that issue when they started making the hunter choose private or public for their antlerless tags.
I'm part of the problem . I don't turn neighbors in . But to be honest all the bait piles I've ever come across In the wood's are more then two gallon's .
Radio said this am, that deer numbers coming in are real low,,,, also opening weekend the numbers down for the 2nd time, ,,,,,,,, Do you think that a lot deer are just not being registered?
The least amount of shooting I have heard in 40 years, and by far.
Same here missouri, sightings are down as well. Usually see at least a dozen or so per day. Most I've seen per day are 4 and it was a group of does yesterday.
While we saw fair numbers of deer, the overall sentiment from others in the area was that numbers were down. Certainly weather plays a part and rain on opening morning and lots of standing corn did not help.
Deer numbers are up significantly by me however I have heard fewer shots. I attribute that to the fact that almost all the hunters I have seen were at their cabins or the bars.
Numbers are up in the areas I hunted this year. southeast, west central, and northeast. Gun hunted the opening weekend in west central wi. A lot less hunters this year compared to last. I saw 16 deer On the opener and that was on public land. Tagged out on Sunday. Heard maybe 30 shots all day last Saturday. Everyone in my group saw deer minus 1 guy.
In Lincoln County yesterday afternoon I herd well over 500 shots in 4 hours of hunting. That is no exaggeration either. I have no clue what was going on. There were times I herd 30 shots in one barrage of fire.
While no shots were relatively close to us. It made me nervous having my grandson out there with that going on.
Washburn County was down 317 opening weekend from a year ago and last year was terrible!
It seems to me that gun season has basically become a two day season. Theres just nodody hunting after opening weekend anymore.
I'm sure some of it are that deer are just not being registered. But I don't think it's a huge issue. There just aren't the amounts of deer there used to be, and that's what the DNR wants. There also isn't near the amount of people hunting. Plus the majority of the ones that do hunt aren't too serious. It's also been talked about how the style of hunting has changed. There are a lot of people that sit in enclosed, heated stands watching over bait piles. So yes I do believe the kill is way down. But I believe there are several contributing factors.
My stand is on a 10 acre corn field of standing corn. I have hunted sun up to sundown 6 days this season from this stand. Not 1 single deer has gone into the corn. I have NEVER seen such a thing in 20 years of hunting from this spot. It is impossible to comprehend. I normally see 75-125 deer each season from this stand. I've seen less than 20 this year. The area south of the cornfield is filled with wolf kills. Apparently they have scared off the deer. Overall, our entire group has seen a drastic reduction in deer this season. Northern Polk County. Everyone we are talking to in the area are saying the same thing.
Rut I think you about nailed it,,,, however I wonder about factual data the DNR has or gets from the current registration, compared to the old way.... Since the DNR does not talk much, its hard to tell..... I would love to see them write an article, in their Natural Rescource magazine, on such a topic,,,,, I have no idea.....
Today I showed Tweed some nasty areas, if he wants to kill a buck,,,, I told him, the buck kill was good around here, but farmers out on their land, are doing drives and moving deer......
Today I was told, that another hunter, was saying to my friend, that not all their deer were registered,,, I guess, there reason was, they did register the first 2, but after that, they stayed back in camp, for several days, never came out, no cell service, and by the time they did come out, it was past the dead line,,,, maybe with no tags being on deer, than did not think much about it..... I have no idea, but its a possibility not all deer are being checked, with the current system,,,,,
Regardless someone should tell the outdoor writers, when they start their articles, there are not 600,000 hunters hitting the woods,,,, participation is way down,,,,
no one was out today around my house, or in the area,,,,, I showed Tweed some spots, if 2 guys were in there all season it would be a lot, and one, that you can get to by canoe, I would be, no one has been in,,,,,,,
"Today I was told, that another hunter, was saying to my friend, that not all their deer were registered,,, I guess, there reason was, they did register the first 2, but after that, they stayed back in camp, for several days, never came out, no cell service, and by the time they did come out, it was past the dead line"
I could see this scenario happening, and it is unfortunate. Some good laws have been passed but a little tweaking could be beneficial, for instance extending the registration requirement from 5 pm the day after harvest to 5 pm the day after season ends. Overall though, I believe the new simple system is creating more hunter compliance being it's just so dang easy to call/online register, sure beats the dead deer road trips that were required in the past so the 21 year old girl working at the gas station could hand you a tag to put on your gross dead bloody deer.
Hearing less shooting doesn't surprise me as it's difficult to shoot something that isn't there. Lack of hunters doesn't surprise me either as many have and continue to give it up due to few sightings. Watching trees grow is fun and all but some deer hunters prefer to at least occasionally see a deer or two, and after countless tree growing watching excursions they search out more exciting endeavors. From what I can tell even this current season once again way too many tags have been given out and/or are available, this is where the problem starts IMO.
Aush, I don't doubt your observations. Wolves are a problem, despite what some here will claim with baseless statements.
HunterR, from what I have heard, most CDAC meetings have been very lightly attended. If deer hunters do not make the time to voice their opinions, no one else will do it for them. Rest assured the other interested parties like ag and forestry are there.
I also think young hunters want constant action. They see it on tv, and expect it in reality. I know my 18 year old son doesn't want to hunt the way I do anymore. Sitting all day to maybe see a deer or two is boring to him. But hunting a small acreage I don't do drives.
I remember everyone this spring saying " glad to see deer numbers up this year." What happened?
aushwegan why would you hunt from the same stand for 6 days straight when you weren't seeing anything?
It seems like the deer stopped moving here shortly after the full moon on 11/4. So strange. We have only seen about 15 deer and only 1 buck this whole gun season. Last season we saw over 100 deer in the 7 days that we hunted.
Saw my first adult deer during gun season today. 6 of them. The doe I harvested today was still in heat. I have heard of numerous bucks still chasing. The pressure is way down around me and they are finally starting to venture out form the swamp. There is still a lot of standing corn near me, over 400 acres. The number of hunters around me were way down, so were the number of shots heard.
In my opinion, the weather, lack of snow and amount of corn still standing will save a lot of deer from guns.
Hunter R,,,, that is a good suggestion for the gun season, that you have till 5pm at the end of the season, to register that deer,,,,, I am going to suggest that, and you should also
I personally never saw a deer this gun season. Hunted Bayfield Co. the first 4 days (still hunting). I did manage to push a few doe to the rest of the fellas. One of the guys saw a nice 12pt but no ethical shot. Hunted public land in Jefferson Co. for a couple of days during the week. Finished my hunting today in the SW part of the state on private land. The deer are usually plentiful on the private land, not today. According to the land owner, they just “disappeared” 2 weeks ago. So, it’s on to predator hunting & brush spraying!
Everyone claimed deer numbers were up this spring? Was this before or after fawns were dropped? And how many people were out enough this spring to have a handle on how many deer there were?
So what is the consequence for not registering deer? Is it so severe that people are scared to admit it when they do? or is the "punishment" so minor that people don't care one way or another. None of this was made public knowledge when they sprang all these wonderful changes on us. There probably wouldn't be so many people that didn't trust the DNR if the department would communicate better.
captmike I noticed it and so did a lot of others. Before and after fawns
Yes, deer numbers were definitely up in my county. Very noticeable. And I hunt in wolf country. Imagine that......
In Oneida county where I hunt the numbers are way down. I hunt with a group of guys that number between 6 and 9 each day. We sit mornings and afternoons and make drives in between. Usually 3 or 4 drives per day. We have yet to see a buck between all of us. Most drives result in no deer seen. We are not rookies at this as we have been in this area for many, many years. We obviously aren't as smart as some of the hunters who used to hunt here because they have moved to different parts of the state due to the lack of deer. The number of people in the bars for fish fries and Thanksgiving meals was way down according to the owners. Sad what the over harvesting in the past and the wolves have done to what used to be a great place to hunt. By the way baiting has been banned for two years now.
Cannot expect a simple guy to comprehend an issue with multiple, complex factors.
Oneida county has been hurting bad! I feel for ya tracker! I have 3 different friends with big families who all hunt up there. Same story as you! They all use to get some real bruisers up there. I definitely understand the northern herds are hurting.
Capt Clueless, the wolf expert from southern WI. LOL!
Careful Retro, your "happy" girlfriend might accuse you of attacking me! LOL!
My friend John, gave the same report for his place in Vilas County, and these guys are no rookies, and cut a lot of big country.... The deer are just not there,,,, they saw some does and fawns, and passed on 2 yearling bucks.....
In my area of Lincoln I would say numbers are up. Passed up several opportunities on deer/bucks that were just not what I was looking for.
Reminds me of the hunting I had here 10-12 years ago when I bought the place.
Next year I’m adding more water and a food plot to make it even better.
DT - glad to hear good news
We are seeing descent #s on our land but I believe it's because of what we put into it. We only take a few does a yr, only harvest mature bucks, plant food for the winter months, installed a pond and water holes, plant spruce for cover, plant 3-4 apple trees per yr. Seems to be working.
Capt, The "clueless" part is factual when you make believe you know the deer situation in a county that you've never hunted.
Retro, when you pretend to know anything about me or where I hunt, you prove that you are the clueless one. Some say that those who ASSume are fools but with you I think the problem runs deeper.
Ive had 1-8 does wander past the rear of the house every few days since mud Oct. Not gun hunting but I haven't seen a tail since a week before the opener in Marathon co
Ok guys....I'll let you all in on a little secret......
The DNR sent out notices to the deer this year when the gun opener would be.
They did this with hopes that the resulting higher density would quickly spread CWD and cause a true crash in the coming years.
Because there will be less deer as a result, the price to apply for a tag will be $125.
Scoundrels.......!
I heard more dusk and dawn shots the weekend before than I did opening day (alot more)
Hey...folks need their "camp meat".
Tweed - I knew it! rotfl!
