Contributors to this thread:
For or against no age limit?
Are you for the new age limit or against it?
Against. With that said, I'm for less government intervention, so I fight this. I don't think this is a safety issue. I believe the child is merely the appendage that pulls the trigger. I also believe children will do anything to make their parents happy, and this rule is stemmed from adult desires, not the children's. Pass a written and field test at any age, and I'm not against it.
I do not care,...... but the concept is dumb and provides ammunition for the antihunting crowd. No non-hunting voter can understand toddlers carrying guns and shooting animals, even when mentored. And, when one looks at society, we all know many parents are not capable of mentoring. No good can come out of this.
Against. It is just another problem of immediate gratification. Anything the child wants, the child gets. Then when they get to be adults they can't handle when they don't get their way. Besides, they are children, let them be little. If you want to take them out hunting then let them tag along, without a weapon until 12.
10 infants got Deer tags ? Walker is a joke .
so does this mean, that the date of birth, you can apply for a bear tag, for your kid? talk about a clogged system
Against. I like 10 year olds with mentors but younger than that no.
Against. I just wonder who's back is getting scratched from this or who's getting more money. That's all ramrodding these dumb laws through is about.
For it. I've been traveling to MN to turkey hunt with my sons for years as this has been an option there, as has been the case for several other states. There are not all that many that will utilize it, but I have no problem with those that have youngsters who are ready to enjoy the hunt together.
For the record, my youngest two, although both probably capable of killing a deer with a rifle, did not hunt this season as neither was actually ready to hunt and understand the full concept in my wife's and my mind... Both still spent time in the woods with me and other family members though learning. -Truly a case by case decision for us.
Against! Seriously 10 infants got tags!!! What a joke and quite frankly disgusting. I think that it makes hunters look bad. How this passed-- blows my mind
Against. Ironically, despite this being a desperate move to increase license sales, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more license sales lost because of this legislation. I will think twice before putting myself in a public woods under low light conditions.
We'll our camp had a great experience with an 8 yr old taking his first deer this year. That was on the second day of the season. Forget immediate gratification. He sat all day Saturday and even passed on a couple of opportunities. He practiced prior to the season just handling the gun. Took time to learn how to shoulder it. He also knows all of the parts of the gun and can name them when you point at them. His father went over all the hunters ed stuff with him (even prior to the bill being passed.) He knew TABK in his sleep. He will point out to others when they are not being safe or when there may be a potentially dangerous situation. He's been accompanying his father the past couple of years on archery and gun sits, just to watch and learn. If anyone was ready, it was this young boy. Say what you want, but there are good and bad examples in everything (including age levels.) The boy mentioned above has a younger brother. His dad says this one will probably not even be ready to hunt by age 10. Kudos to dad and I can only guess he's thankful that it's now left up to the people that know their children best to decide when they're ready to hunt.
In favor of it but this is meaningless as it is law.
Against, this law was rushed through with little thought.
Tomas, were you involved in any part of the process that led to this law? Just curious to know what you base that statement on.
I'm with Duke and the Captain, I like it! So my vote "for"...
I am against the "zero" age limit. I do not think that a child that young can comprehend what taking of a life means. I agree that it should be left up to the parent, but infants under the age of 1 should NOT be allowed to purchase any license. My feeling is that the parent purchased the license not reading the new law and was hoping to get an additional deer for the freezer.
I hope common sense prevails and that parents don't ruin it for their children.
Groundhunter - youth not old enough to hunt have been able to purchase bear points for some time. Yes, another mess....
In the realistic world is likely just parents being 'cute'. I can see people framing 'baby's first buck tag' for a camp wall or whatever. Many more would have been sold if those silly back tags still existed. People spend money/ donate money for all kinds of useless things. No harm no foul. If any of these tags have been filled, then that's a issue that should be looked into but, my money is on them all being unfilled and a total non issue.
Bloodtrail - so you believe parents should be able to buy tags for infants when no doubt these dad's are shooting the deer? For someone who enforces the law I'm shocked your for this one. Why have any minimum age laws? 90% of hunters/parents are against this new law.
I'm not for or against it. Some kids would be ready to hunt at a young age, most would not be. It is up to the parent or the kid, but I believe there should be a minimum. Most tags bought for these younger kids are just an extra tag for the parent and more money for the DNR is my feeling. A win for the DNR, bad for the buck population.
Do away with party hunting during gun season and I might be more supportive of it. But being able to buy a tag for an infant is really greedy. But I am for the parent making the decision on when their child is ready to hunt.
That is a wishy-washy answer I know but I had to explain it.
Not wishy-washy at all. I agree with you. I'd love to see no group hunting at all.
Against. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. One awful incident is too much. I know this situation is different, and not hunting, but it was at a gun range, where in theory the shooting is monitored and controlled. I doubt that girl said to her dad, can I go shoot an Uzi today? Do I think some kids are ready early? Yes. Do I think some parents are responsible and safe enough to pull it off safely? Yes. But I think that if the family has that much of a hunting tradition the kid is going to be a hunter later in life regardless of hunting age started. It is when people get cute that stupid stuff happens. There is a reason minors are not allowed to do things adults can do. Kids can sit with adults at any age. I still remember the first time I saw my dad pull the trigger on a deer. Awesome hunting experience, and one to grow on. I feel bad for the poor kid who gets scope eye, not making the shot, wounding the deer, not finding it, and going to school the next day explaining how they got a bloody eye, and no deer to all of their friends. That sounds like an awesome entry to the sport... Will it happen every time? No. Could it happen like that at any age? Yeah. But I believe the older you are the less likely it is to go down like that, and the more resilient you will be about that experience. I think the worst part of the law was the allowing two guns between the mentor and men-tee. That and the potential of group bagging, and increased possession limits, that are just begging people to abuse.
It is dumb things like this that turn people that are neutral about hunting, against it. Hunting is getting to the point that it is hard for a hunter to try and defend hunting anymore.
Against...agree with smokey
Inmyelement nailed it.
Obviously, by and large, to the non hunting voter, hunters are no longer hunting to control population numbers, advance tradition, and provide food for the table. The quest for horn porn, toddler animal killers, and ego has shattered all of those arguments, gone forever.
I personally would like a "For" or "Against" without sharing your views, sentiments or comments. But that's just me.
Against. Only about the money !
I seen 100’s of photos of successful youth hunters over the gun season. The smiles on their faces said it all.
Why take it away from those that do it correctly to prevent those that abuse it? Should we take cars away from everyone because some drive drunk?
Where are all the people now that when this law was just talk that thought it was great getting rid of government intrusion?
Training toddlers in diapers to shoot and kill/wound animals is not solving government intrusion. There will always be government intrusion in everything we do, and there will be more.
Opposed to it. Can't say i'd like elementary school aged kids consuming alcohol, voting, driving or buying cigarettes. Being old enough to hunt with dad used to be a rite of passage. Just my take on this-LC
Missouri how isn’t it? It putting the power back into the parents hands without government mandates.
Because hunting is regulated in other forms by the government such as seasons, bag limits, size of gun limits, license fees, etc etc. In fact, the states and feds actually own and control wildlife, there is government intrusion everywhere. And, there are controls on who can actually own a weapon. Giving guns to babies in diapers so they can attempt to mortally maim animals is hardly a noble priority for any intelligent parent. In fact, in my 50 years of hunting I have never seen such an ignorant request by hunters. It is no wonder the non hunting voter can no longer understand and appreciate sport hunting, it has reached new lows with a damaged image which is beyond repair.
It is just a matter of time until news breaks that the next serial killer or school shooter began his gun toting career and animal killing spree while just a toddler in diapers.
Missouri I appreciate the lengthy reply. But it’s full of what if’s.
The only reason I was against it when proposed was they were and did eliminate the 1 gun rule in a mentored hunt. I was in the woods 8 of the 9 day gun season and never carried a firearm mentoring people.
I guess I see this whole issue as creating a problem where there was none. The long term consequences can potentially be extremely negative..... for such a small and brainless gain. Of all the things in life and parenting to worry about, is putting a gun in the hand of a kid wearing diapers really a priority?...... Really?
Against and NO argument will change my thought.
Um, fellas it’s to late it’s the law.
Reactionary not proactive. Been saying it all along.
It is never too late. The repercussions are just beginning for the hunting community.... The voting public sentiment will not be good for the long term hunting careers of the diaper brigade.
MO, I usually agree with you so I ask you a fair question. There are many other states that already allow kids of any age to hunt. Please show me instances where the things you claim have already occurred. Surely there must be some?
CaptianMike, We are in a different age and time. Unfortunately the liberal antihunting media has a rolling agenda now, and it is working. There have already been press releases on Yahoo front news page of Toddlers now carrying guns and hunting. I posted a link on the Big Game forum. This is not speculation, it has already happened. Just because it never happened in the past, does not prevent the topic from becoming reality today. This kind of toddler hunting press and debate was avoidable.
Missouri after looking at your thread in the big game forum it seems as hard as you tried to steer the thread you didn’t get the result you were looking for.
It seems many if not most support putting it in the parents hands.
I am neutral, however the future of hunting resides in the votes of the non hunting voter. We really should do the best for our hunting image and heritage, this is not it.
I'm just wondering where all this toddlers in diapers toting guns stuff has come from? Did any of you that hunted this year's 9 day gun season actually see any toddler's in diapers hunting? I did not, nor did any of my buddies hunting in other areas or the near camps we talked to. I'm not questioning that it didn't happen, but according to what's written here it's rampant. And do we know for sure these tiny little hunters are wounding or maiming animals at a higher rate than others? What about the kid that was shooting the last few years before ever stepping into the woods vs the adult who's first hunting season it is and only practice was 2 days before the season started? Or the guy that never sighted his gun in the last couple of seasons and picked up a brand new box of ammo recently never fired out of that gun? Just thinking out loud.
MO, I basically agree with you in that we are in a different age and time and that we'd like to not present hunters in a poor light to the public. Where I disagree is when we are willing to stop our own efforts to promote and/or enjoy our hunting, just in an effort to try and limit ammunition for the anti hunters as I believe they will attack us, regardless what we do. Rather, I'd suggest our efforts focus on presenting the positives of hunting to the non-hunting segment of society through the same channels they use.
Couldn't agree more novice! Great argument for testing straight across the board. Everyone, young and old, takes classroom hunter's safety, and passes a field exam before they can hunt. What a concept?
Novice, you know people really do get riled up over personal opinion. I'm guilty of it myself. Of course people exaggerate about diapers and such. You know why you didn't see any toddlers hunting? For one, they'd likely be on a blind with their mentor, and two, there weren't many. There weren't many, because most people (I repeat most people), know that it's ridiculous to have your child hunting at such a young age. Then again, a four year old, and 7 five year olds this year registered deer? Do you personally think 5 is too early? Yeah, so do I. If you dont, and honestly feel they are "special", then why not have hunter savant be required to take hunter's safety? The reason is, is they can't. They can't read, and don't have the frame for even a small rifle. It's more of a parent thing to me, even though it has very little impact on me. Maybe even zero impact?
Pete, I hear you and will not disagree some are just not ready. Plenty of adults too. I don't mind the suggestion of hunters ed and proficiency test. We have tests for other things (driver's license, etc.) Should that maybe be the criteria rather than age? The 8 yr old by us would have passed with flying colors. He gets it and understands hunting (not just shooting or the book smarts either.)
Novice- the 8 yr old you hunt with is a part of maybe 5% of 8 yr olds that are mature enough to kill a deer. So just make it legal for any age, that makes no sense. We have a group down the valley that drinks while hunting, shoots into brush, and shoots anything that moves. Now they can take their kids at any age, unreal.
Novice, I enjoy having discussions that where people can listen to one another. I'm glad to hear that about the 8 year old, and I believe it. I coached football for several years. Seen all types of kids, and all types of parents. All unique.
RJN, what do you base that 5% number on?
Capt - common sense. I have alot of nieces and nephews, I also go to an elementary school everyday that my 6 yr old attends. I can tell you from what i see none of them should carry or shoot a firearm.
Why should I surprise you with my answer to agreeing to the age change!
This is as bad if not worse than when we allowed mentored hunting for our children 10 years of age, as a minimum. Oh my God.... the world was coming to an end, there was going to be dead 10 year olds everywhere along with adult hunters laying there bleeding in the woods.
Guess what....hasn't happened yet. Thank the Lord, and not to say it never will, but look at the success rate with our mentored youth! A shot in the arm for our Mentors and youth - Good job!
In fact - the only "hunting accidents" were ADULTS this year. That's right thee (3) different adults ended up shooting themselves during deer hunting. Maybe we should limit the age for hunting - your DONE at 40 years of age because those guys shoot themselves!!
Over the years adults have been shooting themselves and other people for years...nobody says squat about that! But we will have "diapered children" in the woods....Oh my!
Let's get real for a second here.
No one is taking babies into the woods. That is so extreme. The children they may take, may appear to be too young but that's a parental decision, based on parenting. Parents need to be allowed to make these decisions. They decide everything else about their kids. Who they hang with, what they play around with, when they can drive a car, But somehow...they are not able to make a sound decision of when their child can accompany them into the field and be mentored by them?
"But Pat...what about all those "bad parents" out there...what about them?"
What about them? 99.9% of them are so bad they may hunt themselves, but take time to take a child...not happening.
That just adds to the list of why they are bad parents...too much time in the tavern, a little time in the woods and yep, another deer season in the books!
This time next year, this law will be a distant memory and the dust will have settled and life has moved forward.....maybe a few 8 or 9 year olds...maybe a 6 year old out here and there but nothing to get all crazy about.
The parents that believe their son/daughter is ready to hunt I don't believe will make that decision lightly. many will not allow it...that's OK...that's what parents are for to begin with!!!
Don't like it.... SAY No to the kids, Followed by a " and maybe in a few years when you show me you can act more mature".....might be a good answer!
Common sense minimum age laws are put in place and enforced because the majority are not physically, mentally ready. The majority of us on this forum are hard core hunters and realize 10 yrs old should be the minimum, not any age. Yes some kids could sit at a bar and be responsible, most cannot and thats why there is laws.
"Common sense minimum age laws are put in place and enforced because the majority are not physically, mentally ready." Why are WI kids so much different from those in other states or countries? And, the 5% number was random, pulled from who knows where, just as is 8, 10, 12 or 18 years of age.
Bloodtrail, excellent points. I congratulate you on having the patience to try and articulate and explain to people who are speaking from emotions and without facts.
So far, 26 against, 5 for and 3 I don't care. Very interesting
Was kind of neutral for me...Until you throw in the 2 gun rule. That makes me against. I mentor my grandkids and I am the judge of when I do it. I have one 10 that hunted this year, have one 14 that I have mentored 4 yrs, Have one 12 that I havent let hunt yet. Have 3 more on there way to hunting (hopefully). I know none of them were ready before 10,but who am I to judge what others can and cant do. Dont get me wrong,some of the ages talked about on here are rediculous no matter what.
What I don't understand is, why is it so important for the guys who are for this to have their children at such young ages shoot deer? My son has been in the woods with me since the age of 6. Not once did ever say he wanted to shoot. He was just fine with learning and observing watching how dad hunted. At 10, he was the shooter and at this point he was ready. Maybe not physically, but mentally he was. He even made a comment horns only, because that's what dad did. Eventhough i told shoot anything. My point is because he was an apprentice for 4 years made him more mature at 10. Not intending and argument here just curious on why it's so important. Even before the no age limit, there was nothing holding anyone back from taking their kids with them.
Scott, that is the beauty of this legislation. You, the parent, are free to choose. What we all need to understand is that what is correct or right for you or I is not always correct for others.