Moultrie Products
Nantucket Massacre
Massachusetts
Contributors to this thread:
xi 05-Dec-17
GED 05-Dec-17
Ungie01201 06-Dec-17
MA_Bowhunter 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
Moons22 06-Dec-17
peterk1234 06-Dec-17
Oneday121o 06-Dec-17
Oneday121o 06-Dec-17
Dthfrmabove 06-Dec-17
Will 06-Dec-17
muzzy 06-Dec-17
Belchertown Bowman 06-Dec-17
Dthfrmabove 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
huntskifishcook 06-Dec-17
BruceP 06-Dec-17
Murphy31 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
Murphy31 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
Belchertown Bowman 06-Dec-17
muzzy 06-Dec-17
Sosso 06-Dec-17
Will 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
Will 06-Dec-17
Belchertown Bowman 06-Dec-17
Bowhunt3138 06-Dec-17
muzzy 06-Dec-17
Pi 06-Dec-17
muzzy 06-Dec-17
Bowhunterman 06-Dec-17
Pi 07-Dec-17
From: xi
05-Dec-17
Everyone, there are people who know how to hunt the Island in a very proficient way. I have family friends that live there and know people who hunt it. Step ladders and shotguns, the people I know who go there every year are welcomed by the landowners and caretakers. They want the harvest to happen, BUT, they DO NOT want the PICTURES ! Only thing worse on the Island than the Opiods, is the tick borne diseases.

From: GED
05-Dec-17
Agree with the pictures. Bad for non-hunter perception of us.

From: Ungie01201
06-Dec-17
Agreed

From: MA_Bowhunter
06-Dec-17

MA_Bowhunter's Link
Are you refering to the pics in the link? I was pretty dismayed when I saw this. Didn't think it was respectful. More about the slaughter than the sport.

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
I don't think it is either disrespectful or negative in any way. Maybe a bit gruesome for those with a problem looking at dead things but there is no disrespect or degrading aspects to this account.

The same response would be evoked at the catch on most fishing vessels . Lots of dead things for a reason.

A slaughter house would send an irrational person into a fit and it goes on and on all year long. It is time for the fuzzy people to deal with this problem of problem animals or shut up and go back to their TV dinners.

This action as pictured is a success and nothing to hide or be apologetic about. It is a publicly endorsed action and a help to human concerns / living conditions.

If anything, we should expand awareness and desensitize the Fuzzy Fantasy Fanatics (FFF)...

People first . Thank you to those who help the problem of overpopulation and disease control and shut up to those that put animals over human concerns.

Eat Ticks if you don't like it !

From: Moons22
06-Dec-17
Pi totally agree. Don't see anything wrong with the pic. Hell of a job Nantucket boys! Just hope that all deer were processed completely.

From: peterk1234
06-Dec-17
Wow. I knew there was a problem with overpopulation there. Never realized it was to that extent!

From: Oneday121o
06-Dec-17
Can’t see the picture, is it a closed group on Facebook?

From: Oneday121o
06-Dec-17
I watched a video on it. I have to make it to that island next year lol. That looks like fun!

From: Dthfrmabove
06-Dec-17
Guys see the pic I posted on BB with the state police a few days ago. . Is that anyway to portray the end of the hunt ?? I totally agree with the management part the little bugs are a grave concern out there but stacked up like cordwood in a trailer with a guy standing over them like that. Sorry not my cup of tea the way that one was portrayed. Just my opinion. Again nothing wrong with the management aspect

From: Will
06-Dec-17
My thought is to envision it as a meme...

What I mean is this. Get out of "our" lens. For example... I'm assuming that's something like all the deer shot on a given day or area or something within the hunt on the island, it looks like a lot of successful guys / gals and some healthy food for families. A benefit is that the deer remaining will have more food and the environment on the island may benefit as well.

But, if I step back and envision those pic's on a non hunting friends (not an anti) social media feed in meme form... With some hyper - politicized, quite possibly false or strongly/intentionally misleading statement ("Yeah, a hunter is a real man." or "Sure buddy, you will use all of that") How would those non hunting friends feel about the pic and about hunting after seeing it?

While there is nothing illegal, and point blank, nothing wrong with it... the potential propaganda that comes from shots like that is brutal for "us".

Reality doesnt sway opinions or beliefs. In fact, people tend to deepen their position even more strongly when they are wrong, but WANT to believe or feel their position is being pushed.

Being excited and proud because of some really successful hunting and bringing home good food and likely some good memories is great. But other people may not see it that way.

From: muzzy
06-Dec-17
Hunters are a small minority of the general population, we already have a hard enough time justifying what we do. Pictures like that shouldn't be posted on any social media site, it's just a black eye for hunters.

Did it have to happen, yes. Does it need to be openly broadcasted, no.

As far as the slaughter house goes, they're not posting what they do on social media, if they did, peta, and every animal rights group would be protesting outside of that slaughter house. Bad for their business, just like that pic is bad for hunting.

Desensitizing the general public will never happen, emotions get in the way of rational thinking.

Humans over animals, I'll go with the animals. They mean us no harm, people on the other hand just suck. Thieves, drug addicts, murderers and on and on. Never had a deer steal a tree stand or a trail camera.

06-Dec-17
Will you have the ability to see through another persons eyes,.. Even though you may not agree with them,.. you have the ability to see something as they might see it. That allows you to sort of understand them.

That is a trait that not all people have,.. or can do,..

I believe it is a form of what they call Empathy.

Those who cannot do that just say ,.. Meh ,.. Fuck em,.. I don't give a shit.

From: Dthfrmabove
06-Dec-17
Well said Will !!!

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
Then there is this : What we are seeing play out in our immediate political environment and times. That pesky First Amendment... Free speech.

After the manipulators have had their monopoly on the Soap Box , along comes the reasonable voice to blast their illusions out into space where they came from. Let them talk ... they will anyways.

We are seeing enough of those illusions being corrected in our public Media to send the "Zombie -non thinking Drones" back into their respective hiding places ... wondering how they could have gotten it so wrong for so long. That process must play out and we best embrace. It is the ebb and tide of our free society. It shows "them" for what they are. Not in a racial way but " Hands up don't shoot ! " That kind of person.

When Reality shows up it will validate the truth and expose the prejudice of what lingers in the minds of the sleeping- sheeple . They need to be shocked back into thinking and a fair examination.

How do you think Trump did it ? Candidates were so stylized as to fall for every trap he laid down. Then he would slip out and say got yu. The Public doesn't want a leader that can be that easily manipulated. Because deep down they know that is not the best survival trait. That's the same point.

Let people draw the wrong (Pre- judged ) conclusions and then blast them with the truth. Maybe that will wake them up and make for a better social condition then the one that we have let evolve.

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
Agreed BB, Empathy is a needed quality but it doesn't stop there. That leads to the need to dialogue on what points may be missed in their "thinking" . It Works both ways.

All too common the one group that wants to be "understood" also doesn't want to let you expose the errors in their thinking . Like those adolescent thought processes with most young folks. Only it is much worse now and a social movement among some groups. There are groups of people that have perfected their shtick and isolate and insulate the discussion so that any attempt at penetrating the illusion is a trigger for the shut down or worse a claim of discrimination and such.

These bad habits have bloomed out of control in recent decades and I suspect it is because "wrong- thinking for self promotion " is "self aware" and knows it can't survive out in the open, under the scrutiny of full dialogue and the burden of reason.

That is why there was a collaboration among MS media and Political projects . Control the dialogue and manipulate people into un-informed decisions.

06-Dec-17
PI, while I agree with your sentiment, I don't think it's the best strategy if we want to continue our past time for the long term. The HSUS loves to get their grimy little fingers on pictures like that, it's exactly how they sway the sheeple in the voting booths. Anti-hunters have had huge success pulling on voters heart strings and passing hunting laws based on emotion and bad science. Hunting bears with hounds and over bait has been outlawed in most states by using such pictures and emotional dialogue to accompany it, even though most biologists know that both methods are an effective and in some cases necessary management tool. The bear hunting issue has been brought to the ballot twice in Maine over the last 6-7 years and fortunately hunters were able to beat big out of state money which brought the initiative to the ballot in the first place, but fast forward 10 years, multiply the number of hipsters in Portland exponentially, throw in a bunch of these "massacre" pictures and the vote could go the way of the antis like it has in so many other states. I think if we want to start a war, we also have to be prepared to lose a war and I just don't think we have the numbers or the money to be throwing these types of pictures around so freely on public forums.

From: BruceP
06-Dec-17
Will, Muzzy, great points from both of you. Couldn't have said it any better.

From: Murphy31
06-Dec-17
That's a pretty common sight in places that actually have deer. Everyone gets but hurt because its not normal to see around here. I have zero issue with the pictures. What are they suppose to hide them under tarps, and act like it didn't happen?

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
I don't advocate throwing any pictures around without having a clear message that makes the appropriate point. " Islanders and Conservation folks relieved that population is being controlled ." " We are grateful for the efforts to bring a balance back to this problem area".

More people are reasonable minded if you give them the reason up front. Then the other kind. Do the work up front and it is no longer a hush hush so we can keep getting away with it flavor.

Different school of thought based on how we think the public is educated and or manipulated. I know that if I tell someone a reasonable answer to a hard question they don't usually bother thinking for themselves and it goes my way. Do the work up front. Label any pictures before it can be labeled otherwise.

From: Murphy31
06-Dec-17

Murphy31's embedded Photo
Murphy31's embedded Photo
Here's a picture from the first year we started going to Ohio. Opening day of shotgun at the butcher. Never saw that many deer my life.

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
HuntFC. We are already in the war. We have lost ground with the other PC atmosphere and techniques . That is shifting back to more reason and open dialogue and that is our best weapon. Silence and propaganda is theirs. They are better at it than us. But that decade and the manipulators are on the way out.

Honesty , out in the open , will win the argument and while I agree there is no need to talk about what is already working , I am prepared to mitigate the damage and win the war that may escalate. I don't think this picture will do that but again if it is being put out there it is wise to make appropriate notations along with it. Trying to keep the pictures from being posted is not going to work. But that is the better solution if it was possible. Don't fix what ain't broke and don't break things that are working. That bell can't be un-rung so what is the next best thing to do? Honest information.

06-Dec-17
We need to put up photos or a cow or pig processing plant right next to that other one,..

The "food industry" just hides their actions behind walls, laws, and legally binding agreements signed by employees.

At least deer live a normal life until harvested the same cannot be said for cows or pigs.

From: muzzy
06-Dec-17
1996, question 1 changed the trapping laws in Massachusetts. Had it not been for numerous pictures in newspapers of a three legged dog it probably wouldn't have passed. They also snuck in the fid/ Ltc change.

You see, if it wasn't for the pictures of the dog most people wouldn't have even cared, but the pictures were a powerful tool that influenced many non hunters. 1,400,000 voted yes, 740,000 voted no.

After the vote passed it was reported that the dog lost its leg after a auto accident. The power of the press.

If you think we can win the war with posting pictures like above your crazy. No one here is butt hurt by the pics.

The people on the island realized that something had to be done, the rest of the non hunters, general public will always think of some dumb alternative.

This is Massachusetts, not Ohio, Kansas, Pennsylvania where deer hunting is a way of life for most folks. In case no one noticed, we're a dying breed. Looked at like we're Neanderthals, cruel brutal killers of beautiful creatures.

Let the anti hunters, animal lovers gather a bunch of pics of deer piled up and quotes of guys saying how awesome it is, is feeding their agenda.

We are a small group of people trying to do something we enjoy, we're under funded, out numbered and don't stand a chance.

Am I proud to be a hunter, absolutely. Am I reluctant to show it off, yes. It's just the state we live in. A lot of you guys are talking about secret vehicles that look like tree huggers and bird watchers are in the woods, afraid of being labled hunters and fearing vandalism.

Let's not be our worst enemy, we already have a tough enough fight ahead of us.

From: Sosso
06-Dec-17
Deer only ever have one bad day.

From: Will
06-Dec-17
Muzzy - I couldn't agree more. Question one was brutal. When I was at the hearing for the Outdoor Heritage Act earlier this fall, when MSPCA was presenting their discussion points, they were still using similar strategies.

Open, honest dialogue is a good thing. It requires middle ground. It requires understanding that the person with another view, very well may get butt hurt by what they read/hear, and being thoughtful enough to try and get your message across in a way which prevents that (butt hurting) and helps them reach their own conclusion.

To me, this is not a PC/Non-PC thing or a Left/Right thing. It's a "golden rule" thing.

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
I agree with you Muzzy.

I agree that fake news Did a lot of damage , in many places. Not just hunting but all over our social mind set. We have been watching all sorts of manipulation by the Main stream Media which is being exposed for the Propaganda Tabloid crap that they peddle as Real News. It is dying under its own weight . That was supported by Progressive -Liberals who live this way and we on the other side didn't make our voices loud and clear. They won that decade for sure.

I don't know how our once good state of Ma got there . But, knowing how the other minds are processing things should educate us on how to get something across to them . Ive worked in the heart of Progressive - Liberal Land and learned to talk their language / understand how to speak to them.

The picture without information is dangerous as you say and no good can come of it if it is put out there for emotional manipulation. But I think the public knows enough about Lyme to give us an advantage in the argument. Trapping is a bit more abstract to people because they don't associate it with a human illness and I would think many are bothered by the prolonged suffering of a trapped animal. Coyote hunting is not an issue for most because Coyotes eat their beloved pets and such.

A little propaganda of our own (truth based is best) should take care of the deer issue. " Lyme disease carriers are being managed " etc. From most folks I talk with it is a necessity to keep the deer population down . Even if that is not fully the solution to lessening ticks, the public thinks this and we need to advance that point . Even a P-Liberal will want it and they do ,which is why these big deer hunts are promoted and acceptable already even in Mass. Many towns are open to accepting hunting now as a management issue that were once closed tight.

I don't know who labeled this a Massacre to begin with. But it should be called "A Management success". "Down with Lyme Disease ."

P.S. I just took a deer tick off of me after a short walk with my pups. They are still very active ... We best kill some deer to do our part.

From: Will
06-Dec-17

Will's Link
https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/articles/will-social-media-be-the-death-of-hunting

Ironically this just buzzed my fakebook feed...

06-Dec-17
Excellent Will,.. again nice post,.. about social media,..

We see this here on our forums a little ,.. we sometimes see folks labeling and dividing us into groups and people for example "Liberals" and such,.. creating division. I consider myself liberal but still a hunter,.. I really don't know why I am bad if liberal,. LOL? The gist of the article is,.. we should think more about what we post.

This chunk of the article I really liked

"We can start by policing our own ranks (Thinks of Pi making sure we are all polite). Individually, we can be supportive of one another and stop the bickering over trivial matters such as equipment choice or hunting method. We also need to put more thought into what we post online. While we should never be ashamed of our hunting heritage or attempt to hide it, we do have to be conscious of the 94 percent of Americans who don’t hunt and try to keep our posts as tasteful as possible."

I thought of that "attempt to hide" comment and how we often do that,,.. thinks hunting car choice thread,..

Thanks Will that was really informative and I feel struck a true note to what I read,.. and made me think,..

From: Bowhunt3138
06-Dec-17
Nothing good can or will come from these pictures getting to either anti-hunters or non-hunters . It looks horrendous !! It might need to be done , I know it does , but we can't give the antis easy ammunition like this !! I'm PROUD TO BE A HUNTER !! But this isn't a good image of or for US !! Just my 2 cents.

From: muzzy
06-Dec-17
Pi, agreed that massacre was the wrong choice of words and management success would be more likely accepted to the non hunting public.

From: Pi
06-Dec-17
A firm hand shake Muzzy . I think we are good.

From: muzzy
06-Dec-17
Hand shake, all good.

From: Bowhunterman
06-Dec-17
You can all say what you want that picture was in bad taste . I have hunted the island before they are proactive to hunters but pics like that invite Sharpshooters and more private no hunting land

From: Pi
07-Dec-17
Bowhunterman, That may be true for some but seems fear based and extreem.

It's hard to judge how people react but solid truth and positive dialogue is our best bet to keep people reasonable. I doubt that any Islander is unaware of the process and its need . They know full well what is going on and why. If people start sniping then it is a police issue and stop and frisk will be enacted. "No one gets off the boat with the wrong gun- Policy". My reasoning is this : Those folks want to take the numbers down for good reason and that won't change till it happens. Then Private land will have their select hunters ... Just be sure to be one. There will always be over- flow onto public land .

It is not a big problem . It is a big solution .

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