Charged by Pitbull
Pennsylvania
My yard borders an SGL, a few days ago I was heading out to sit for the evening. I walk through my gate and close it, I hear the next door dog bark as I proceed to walk into the woods. I got maybe 15-20 yards into the wood line when I hear said dog come charging up into the woods without a leash growling showing teeth. I Yell "hey, hey, hey" and flinch as the dog a Pitbull got to within 6 inches of my thigh, I flinched and readied as I thought I was gonna be attacked and bit. At this point the owner yells and the dog stops and goes back to her, I'm physicially shaken and full of adrenaline and rage. I tell her to get her F'ing dog under control and on a leash, if it attacks me I will shoot it! I had to repeat myself 5 times before she could hear me bc she has at least 6-8 other dogs barking. She finally hears what I say, calls me a few expletives and says she's calling the police, I good so am I. I proceed to call and tell dispatch my version of the incident, I say I'm going hunting and not letting this ruin my hunt, I leave my name, phone number and address and she says an officer will contact me. So I go to my stand and sit for the evening, I get a call by and officer and hour later and the woman said I pointed my gun at her which is a blatant 100% lie. I told the officer my version of the incident and stressed that she was lying. He met me after dark in my driveway and I told the story again and he also gave me a form to fill out and explain the events transpired.
My question is am I wrong in any way or am I right for stating that I will defend myself against an attack? I have never wanted to kill or have ever had a want to kill a dog but if I'm or a family member is being attacked I will. Thoughts?
You were excited at the near attack and gave her a waring. I would have probably done the same. However, hindsight being 20-20, I think I would have been better to not address the owner in anyway and simply call the police. Hard to do when you were almost attacked but if you're looking for any sort of advice this would be mine. She should have apologized at the near attack but you can see what type of person she is and you ain't gonna be the one who talks any sense into her.
Was the person walking the dogs your neighbor?
Me personally.... No way I would let a dog- any dog of size, charge at me full bore- without stopping, teeth showing and growling, get to 6" of me. I have raised dogs all my life and love them as much as anything. I carry now after having a mess of coyote flank me and my leashed beagles for 1/2 mile. I commend you for being gracious in that situation!
That kind of crap really ticks me off. I think you were right to do and say what you did, and were quite reserved in your actions. I doubt I would have let an aggressive acting pitbull get within 6" of me without doing something about it, but that's a tough one... things like that happen so fast, and warding off, injuring, or killing someone's dog is a delicate situation. But what if it was an unarmed child that the dog went after? I had a cousin almost killed by a german shepherd in a similar situation. People need to control their pets, or eventually someone else will.
Yes it's my neighbor that in my 5 years of living there I have never said a single word to. These people for lack of a better description are trash, it sounds like a dog kennel over there because they have so many dogs and they are outside barking at all hours of the morning and night in which I have called the local police about numerous times. The last time I called on them was just a few weeks ago during archery where the husband decided to start target shooting in his back yard not 100 yards from my house. I have a 4 month old and it sounded like they were shooting right at my back door, 1 it's a safety zone violation & 2 it's city ordinance violation as well. Other neighbors can't stand them either, while the policeman was there responding to the incident my other neighbor spoke to him confirming how out of control their dogs are. God forbid when my son is old enough to go into the woods on his own and venture and that dog or any other dog for that matter attacked him there would be hell to pay. I have no interest in speaking to these people, they aren't the type I want to be friends with, especially after this incident.
A new Pa law was signed last year and it basically make it a felony with up to 7 years in prison if a dog owner leaves a dog outside for more than 30 minutes in temps above 90 degree & under 32 degrees. You're damn right I'm gonna be out there with a stop watch counting the minutes those dogs go unattended in those temps. I will do whatever I can legally to get them in line.
Was involved of the killing of a Doberman Pincher years ago that cornered us on the public road. Bottom line is the owner is responsible to restrain the dog and you have the right to defend your self if its off owners property. The owner was a PA State policewoman that tried to prosecute us. That said was working near the turnpike this year and some german sheperds running around, they bit a engineer sending him to the ER , a contractor and a state employee all on different days.. All attacks was off the owners property, and they still have all the dogs. Guess its in who you know. But the dog catcher does drive by daily now.
I have had dogs charge me on public property. I have a concealed carry permit and carry a pistol even when jogging and mtn biking.
You have a lot more restraint than I do! No dog is going to get within 3’ of me if it is aggressive and charging at me. First thing I do when I see a dog off leash is reach for my pistol! ;-)
Haven’t had one break the 3’ barrier yet, thank God. But if one ever does, it will be the last time it ever does!
I am a dog lover.
But..
I would have been firing warning shots at 20 feet. If he kept charging, then that's his problem!
Let's not loose sight here. He has a terrible neighbor that has 6 or more other dogs, and she obviously has lost control of them. Pa has leash laws to prevent something like this happening, and most people do not see it the way it was intended and these "rules" do not apply to their dogs. Stupidity is the responsibility of the owner and really not the dogs fault. I would however be careful with what one guy said before, "firing off warning shots" - are you kidding, that opens you up to a lot more than just a dog charging you. However, protecting yourself against dogs off their leash is your choice. They have a saying out west where wolves were reintroduced, "dig don't tell".
Another great option is pepper spray. Sabre has some great products specifically designed for stopping aggressive dogs. Where I run and hike, if I were to pull my gun out for any reason, it will be a MAJOR hassle when the cops show up, which they will whether a shot is fired or not. My mindset has been, and always will be, that pulling the gun is the absolute last resort, which basically means that the dog has to actually be in the act of biting. Since pepper spray isn't lethal, and doesn't cause the hysteria that a gun does, you can blast away as soon as an aggressive dog gets within five yards or so. There's no need to wait to see if it was actually going to bite you before taking action, and when the owners get pissed you can kindly let them know that it was a much better option for their dog than plan B!
She committed a crime by filing a false report in which she accused you of a crime that you didn't commit. The only problem is it's her her word against yours at this point. I'm sure the Officer knows she's lying or you'd have been cited at the very least.
Bonafide, I'd be filming the minutes the Dogs are out in the cold. It sounds as if you have a bigger problem with these neighbors than just their dogs. I'll expound as I have nothing else to do right now. This is only advice as I'd handle it. Not saying I'm right; but I am saying I can read people very well and I do my homework before I take action.
Bottom line is if you'd dispatched that dog while it was on YOUR land, you'd be in the clear with the law. Keep in mind some people view pets as Children though and that could open up a huge can of worms and troubles w/ neighbors. I hear you that you want nothing to do with them. I personally would either talk with them while accompanied by an active duty Officer, or at least another Neighbor who has seen their unfavorable behavior. I would be polite and at least ask for shock collars or fencing. I would be clear that as a dog lover I'd not want to but would protect myself or Family if charged again. I also would inform them that this entire conversation was being recorded audibly & visually at the beginning of the conversation. Not informing is not only not admissible in Court but a violation of Federal wire tapping Laws.
I have a huge dog and although isolated I have a huge responsibility with it. I've trained her very well and although I can trust her, I still leash her when she wants to sunbathe on porch or has to go out. If I don't leash her, I'm out with her. She knows her boundaries but will bark at joggers and approach any vehicle that enters property barking. She barks and circles. She will not attack unless their is a physical altercation with one of us. The only minor problems I have with her is she will try to sneak off if in heat, she will try to cover scent of a bath by rolling in Deer feces, she woofs very loud at any outside sound and often wakes 7 month old baby. Only other problem is as big as she is she can knock people over by just coming up and leaning against their legs to be petted and rubbed.
Yes your neighbors sound like a problem and I'm not perfect but I try to respect the few neighbors I have. I wish you luck in however you handle it or whatever occurs.
Thank you all for the input, I was not loaded as I was only 10-15 yards inside the SGL wood line and in a safety zone. I also am a dog lover, I have two choc labs myself and I would be devastated if anything happened to either one. This all happened so fast that by the time I turned to see what the noise behind me was the dog was basically right on top of me as it ran up the edge of our property line wood fence with no view of what's behind the fence. I don't ever want to have to resort to shooting a dog particularly a pet dog regardless of breed and I would never attempt a warning shot as that opens a totally different can of worms, I'll only shoot to defend myself or family from an attack. However, this dog is a Pitbull and I know for a fact that these people have trained them to be home protectors as my other neighbor has told me. And yes these people are nothing but problems, they have no regard for the neighbors on either side of them, us being one of them. I also have no desire to ever be friendly with them but I do want to be civil. And yes she definitely committed a crime when she falsified a claim of me pointing my gun towards her and the Policeman whom took my report is aware of that as he spoke with me he rolled his eyes when he told me she said I did such a thing. I have called on them on a few occasions and will continue to do so as they continue to have no regard for the law. Thanks again.
Ya all can say and do whatever it is ya deem right while sitting there at your keyboard, criticizing others. I'm just gonna use my cell phone from now on and if a 130 pound dog is chewing me up and I'm losing blood fast, I'll just call the wife and tell her I won't be home for dinner anymore cause the Bowsite police said I'm not allowed to shoot this dog.
Once again, RC proves that the bar does not serve watered down liquor.
And you prove ya don't know crap about me. I don't drink.
A dog chewing on my leg is getting shot, which is the reason I carry. The reason for carrying pepper spray is to try to avoid that scenario. I would rather not kill someones dog and I sure as hell would rather not have to deal with all the legal crap that is sure to follow, but hey, if someone feels the need to go with plan A right off the bat I can't say I blame them, whether they drink or not. ;-)
I'm not advocating killing a dog. But if it's him or me, the choice is easy. I've never shot a dog in my life. Far as warning shots go, that may save the dogs life, or mine. I swear some folks in here wear pink skirts. :)
Right, and so does firing a weapon in public. Reckless endangerment. Sorry, the legality of either is stifling. Sorry RC, could not resist. Apology for the drinking thing but you do type "funny".
So if the dog did in fact start attacking you, or your kid, would you pull out your phone and call a lawyer first? Or wait and call the coroner? Gotta be something in the water up there in 5C..
No warning shots. None. At. All. If the threat is severe enough to draw your weapon and pull the trigger, it's severe enough to use deadly force.
Problem is Roy would miss no matter how close then the dog would take one bite then realize all that old bony thing was not worth biting and let go .
But then I would have a dog bite to prove I got attacked and then I could sue the owner:)
Yea you better hope i am not on the jury i would tell them you provoked the dog . then you would be paying the dog owner.
I havn't laughed so hard in years!!!!
My 2 cents, pit bulls arn't dogs, they're weapons. I got near bit by one a few months ago in Allentown. I would not have mercifully shot him.
I would have savagely cut his head off!
OMG.. Hain't nobody gonna like that answer. Theys gonna chew you up like ah junkyard dog now Bowjo.. Run, run now.. LOL
I'm ok with that, Bowjo. Sometimes they need to learn the hard way.
Best way to stop repeat offenders.
Well, it certainly looks like stupidity, and being an a••hole is still contagious on Bowsite.
Then go away BC iffin' you don't like a little ribbin'. Thin skin on some these days.
BC, you're barking up the wrong tree:)
No thin skin here, I can promise you that. But to blame a whole breed of dog because of faulty owners is well... stupid.
Alright. A little bit of life to Bowsite. Mission accomplished!!!
Ok boys, listen up...If'n we don't keep it bowhunting, Pat's gonna pull this thread.
In light of that I retract my last statement....
I would slip a Rage two blade between his second and third rib!
Seriously though.. where I live, the "inner city people" breed them like cockroaches. I guess it is some type of status symbol? Chains aroud their neck, spiked collars....Disgusting! Then, when their landlord finds out whats living in his apartment, they end up at the shelter. (ya don't see many poodles or labs in center city).
Then some do gooder comes along like that neighbor who thinks he is gonna save a life, and rehabilitate the beast. It just don't happen. I see it too man times. That's the view from here.
Not necsesary BC, If the shoe fits, I'll proudly wear it :)
Hell Joe, you wear muck boots cause yers is so deep:)
Heck I hain't scared of no pitbull. But my wife is Irish/Italian.. LOL
Bowjo.... i’ve worn it many times. Lol
Law enforcement is trained that they can legally use deadly force (against humans) if they are in fear of death or serious bodily injury to themselves or (to protect) others. I believe that would extend to animal threats. Having been there and done that I can tell you the decision to shoot may have to be made in a split second. I dog bite could kill you fairly quickly (ever see a femoral artery injury)? Convince yourself that "I thought I was going to die.) Make the first shot count then live with it. Let's get back to bow hunting.
Maybe if he just threw the dog a bone, it would give him time to escape while the dog ate it? But if checked by a warden, would dog bones be considered baiting?:)
"It's a dog eat dog world, Sammy, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear".....Norm Peterson
How about a pit bull story that is kind of amusing. Only two houses on the one half mile country lane, I started hunting near and parking at the last house. About the second or third time to my stand, I turn and see a brindle colored female pit about twenty yards behind and following me. I try to get her to stop and I say "Go home", several times. The stand is only about 200 yards away, so I'm not wanting to make a lot of vocal noise. She won't leave, and is wagging tale and in a friendly demeanor. She won't leave, and I proceed to my stand. About the time I pull up my bow, she has comforabley seated herself about five yards from my stand. I urge her to go home, but she just sits there gazing at me. After about one half hour I decide I may as well just go home. When I hit the ground, there she is wagging tail and at my side. We walk out to the truck like old friends, as I drive out the lane she follows me to the main county road and then follows me about three quarters of a mile to my drive. I pull up to the garage, get out, and she greets me like I am her long lost friend. Well, I have a 90 lb. male yellow Lab, and my wife will let him out to greet me. Quickly I call to the Pit, pat my passenger seat and she jumps in like it is an every day occurance. I drive back to the first house on the hunting lane, knock on the door, and tell the lady what happened. She informs me that Annie has now adopted me, so the lady says she will be sure to have Annie in here back yard kennel in the future. So, end of story, as the dog was always kenneled after that. My main concern was that Annie would not only mess up my hunting, but might get harmed following me home.
Could have ended like this
I wouldn't tolerate an aggressive dog charging me.
A few years back I had a brindle Pit Bull trail me almost to my stand. If it had made one step closer, it wouldn't have gone home. Dogs in the woods without collars are fair game on my property.
Nonrespropowner: Wow... just wow.. You sir must have a great lawyer.
Same here Stick n String! Same goes for WOLF mixes too- no good reason for that!
5C, what is a person supposed to do if a dog attacks them out in the woods?
Bottom line, the dog got closer than I was comfortable with, if the owner wouldn't have stopped it I would have had no choice but to give it a dirt nap since if it got any closer it would have been on top of me attacking. It is my right to defend myself against and aggressive animal and God forbid it my family is attacked, it's game over then!
Roy, same thing he's supposed to do if a dog attacks him anywhere else... anything and everything necessary to come out on top.
I was walking over to the post office two weeks ago and the new neighbor was out on his porch with his German shepard and some other anorexic pitbull looking pooch. By the time I saw them, I was in what could have been a vulnerable position. They were 20-30 yards away and I was in front of the fire hall and had nowhere to go. I thought 'oh crap'... but maintained my stride, faced straight ahead but kept my eye on them as I grabbed my shaving sharp pocket knife, opened it with one hand, and brought it up into my coat pocket, concealed all the while. I checked its edge in my pocket, yep, sharp as hell. They were at attention now, ears perked up, at the top of the steps. Bring it on, I thought. I might get chewed on, but one or both of you are gonna spring serious leaks before your owner gets across the road to try to save ya. Never happened. He wrestled them inside. I'll not go with just a pocketknife from now on.
Exactly.. I will shoot first and worry about the lawyer fees later. Sure beats bleeding to death in the woods. It's all up to the dog if it wants to live or die. I sure as hell "do not want to shoot a dog." But I sure as hell do not want to bleed to death either.
On the bright side, some of the best jerky I ever made, came from dogs I had to kill... Best tasting one was a Poodle. And I didn't even have to put an ear tag in them or send in a kill report..............
Gotta love the PGC and Gary Alt....
Jeff....I sure hope your pocket knife has a wooden handle, and not one of those fancy new space age composite ones! LOL! ;-D
Stick....my favorite dog jerky is Chewuahuah.
5C-I sure hope an attacking aggressive breed dog's owner has a good lawyer on speed dial, dealing with the repercussions(getting shot) of the actions said dog does is one thing but the legal side of the law will be another.
I wasn't saying to not protect yourself. My point was having an aggressive animal close and posing a danger is one thing. In the law suit society of today, you will be forced to answer some tough questions that you should be prepared to answer. Some of which (as a liberal lawyer would ask) are:
1. Did you make every attempt to diffuse the situation without deadly force? 2. Where were you, your property, SGL's, some one elses? 3. Could you have escaped the situation without deadly force. Meaning, a retreat of some sort. 4. Do you know the fee per hour of a good attorney? Ya know, things like that. In the case of Mass opinion, you are guilty before being asked those charges when an animal like this is involved. Sorry.
They have a saying out west where wolves were reintroduced, "dig don't tell".
Yupper, copy and paste:) Why ya gonna sue me now? LOL
And a good defense attorney would have an answer for each of those questions posed. Plus an aggressive breed of dog unleashed doesn't have a prayer in a court of law if it attacks someone.
Answers to liberal lawyer as follows:
1. Did you make every attempt to diffuse the situation without deadly force?
Owner failed to control a dog that is classified as a dangerous breed. Dogs that are bred to fight do not understand threats, speaking calmly, or "diffusing the situation". They respond to force. Overwhelming deadly force.
2. Where were you, your property, SGL's, some one elses?
Public property where I have the reasonable expectation to walk and not be attacked by a known dangerous breed whose owner failed to control it.
3. Could you have escaped the situation without deadly force. Meaning, a retreat of some sort.
Anyone with a modicum of sense, knows you don't retreat. It triggers a chase instinct.
The owner and only the owner is responsible for the fact the dog is dead. I did what I had to do to stop a deadly attack. The fact the the dog died as a result of that is not my fault OR my problem.
Courts of common opinion are running rampant...
Rc, have a good holiday.
Josh- LMBO! : )
Stay away from the Shi-tzu (jerky) though! ;-)
Thanks, John. And you also..
Just when I thought this thread was dead.....
LMBO!! Almost pissed my pants!
SSS
Shoot Shovel and Shut up
Wouldn't be the first time ya wet yourself, Bowzo. LOL
...and when I get old like you.. It'll be a regular occurance XO
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