Desperate for help! Shot a Monster
Massachusetts
Hi Guys, shot a monster 10 pointer. High shot, in the scapula area. Arrow stuck in him at least 6-8 inches. Not a pass through. Minimal blood at 5 yards. He immediately ran back into his bedding area.
I have no idea what I should do. he looked like he had a slight limp at 70 yards away. But, he was walking in icy type field marsh. Shot at 10 yards, 280 fps mechanical broadhead that expands on impact. This will be my first deer folks, and I already missed one this year. Shot him at 4pm
Mark last blood give him time to bed and die. Don't push him Go in at light go really slow . I hope you get him What zone u in?
At best it’s a high lung shot. It’s going to take him at least an hour to die, could be two or three.
The weather tonight is your friend.
Get a map. Grid the area you believe him to be in. Make it 100yds by 100 yds, and grid it out...tomorrow at 9AM.
No shit. He’s not going to rot tonight, if he’s dead right now he’ll keep til morning. You want to avoid pushing him.
I would start looking for people to start in the morning. Where you at?
Like everyone's buddy stan potts would say "when in doubt back out." I'm tellin u the buck is down, give em till first light tomorow morning though. Possibillity coyotes will take over but if you go stomping through their now could bump him onto someone else's property and that could be backstrap dinner for them tomorow night so I recommend give em the amplitude time to expire then go in closest to morning. With snow coming however double edge sword man atleast 8 hours. They gotta keep moving to find food to keep warm so either way you may be following blood trail for awhile. Ill even come help you let me know brother.
Nick, Need a little more info from you. What was the reaction of the deer after the shot? You say it was limping, was it running? How was the tail movement? Was it white side out as it left of tucked in? What zone are you in? How quickly did you go after it? how far did you look for it?
Sounds like a wait over night deal to me, but I'll be interested to hear what the more experienced guys on here have to say. Where are you located?
When you go in to recover, go in knocked and ready to go.
Please don’t be pushing right now.
Thanks for all the replies. I didnt see his tail after the shot. He hopped pretty high and fast but slowed to a walk about 30 yards away. I saw him drop his shoulder and catch himself at about 70 yards away. I didnt go after him. I waited 20 minutes. walked 15-20 yards found a little blood, fir )no white cartilage) I then backed off and drove home. I wanted to go back at 8pm because of the snow. I know exactly where he went and he definitely bedded right back down. I would say with confidence that I shot him where the red box is in this picture.
Zone 9
Nick, what zone you in. Ask for help, friends or family. It's dark now.
And he kicked his legs up high.
His rear legs or front legs? If front, you knocked the wind out of him and it’s at least a lung. Are you sure on the depth? How are you sure?
At 10 yds that’s at least one lung. He dead. Go in tomorrow morning with a grid.
Don't do what I did. Back out till morning. If es dead now he'll be dead in the am. Good luck man really hope u find him.
Wait till the morning . It is likely one lung . He needs time . Go in ready to shoot. If you have a Muzzle loader or hunter friend with one , bring it.
If you know where he went, he will be dead there in the AM. If you go in at 8, you may push him and most likley will not find him. Let him die where you think he is. It will be a long night for you but it sounds like a dead deer will be there in the morning.
Thanks PI, it is a bow only area.
Nice I had a less than great shot on a doe. Most guys suggested 12-24 hrs. I went in after 7 and it was still alive. Go look in the am. Having light on your side will help tremendously. Good luck man
Got it Nickade , If you can get the help and the landscape allows this ,you could send someone or a few folks around to the far side, as to cut off any escape . Have them go in first and way around as to push from the escape side back to you. If he is alive and he gets jumped , he is coming right to you. Stay on your phones and have them in orange.
I gotta say, I'm getting conflicting info from all sides. The people im calling are saying tonight, and most everyone here is saying tomorrow. I think I want to wait, but i gotta say, the wait is hard.
Why would you rush it ? It is cold enough . Coyote problem ? how much can they eat ? They won't eat the rack ... If it is one lung he is likely still alive . You don't want to push him out. 6 inches is not both lungs.
At 70 yards if you hit both lungs , he would have dropped .
If you insist on going tonight (not advised) : If you can see the spot from up a tree then you could go tonight with a strong flashlight . Like a Million candlepower search light. Light up the spot and make some deer noise . If you see eyes turn to you then back out till morning . If you see him and there is no motion , no breath (which you should be able to see with good field glasses) you could ease up to him but be sure and walk in as quietly as you can (just in case). Slippers .
If you are not sure then wait. Morning will be here soon enough.
I made the mistake of waiting this season and lost a beautiful buck to the coyotes. Didn't take long for them to get it.
Only you can make the call, good luck. Hope you find him.
I waited an hour and a half last night and lost a doe to the fing yotes. But she was dead !! Don't push him or you will lose him if he's not dead!!
Also, if it matters, it make a loud pop/snap when the arrow hit.
Nickcade I would say wait until morning. Good luck. You have snow and cold on your side by the sound if it. Dead deer in nature's cooler go find him in the a.m.
That loud snap could be hitting the shoulder blade. Loud pop could be pinching into the chest cavity Single lung deer can live longer than you think. Like others said when in doubt back out. If you're in the snow belt could be a bit of a hassle finding him due to no sign but a grid search and or following any type of deer trail will aid in your search. Deer will follow the path of least resistance even through the thick stuff. Good luck and if you are near south coast Z11 PM me I will come and help
Like you popped a balloon or like you hit a piece of plywood with the arrow?
Probably broke the arrow when he bolted. Pop / snap.
I had one break both ends when he took off leaving about 8 inches in the chest ( through the heart) That was a track and follow up on a friends deer that was liver shot and almost dead on his feet about a mile from point A. Still he bolted another 50 yards before dropping. Tough animals.
The sound was like hitting a muffled ballon. pop/snap sound. Yes im in the snow and its coming down like crazy. The arrow didnt come out within at least 15 yards. The arrow was definitely not broken after impact I saw it very clearly. It just made the snap/pop sound instantly on impact. Is that a normal sound mechanical make on impact? Rage hypodermic
After looking at lots of deer, Im very confident it hit the back side and high on the lung. Very likely it it could have hit liver.
It is bone being broken and probably lung popping. You must have hit dead center on a rib . If the arrow didn't break off then you did not likely hit the (Scapula) . I would not push him but good luck if you must.
If you shot him in the red box, then , unless he was strongly quartering to you , you could not hit the liver.
After cutting up a nice mature doe earlier this season I found my rage broad head imbedded in the spine. It then became crystal clear to me , if you hit bone with a mechanical it does not open. Because it did not penetrate it could fully open. It couldn't open because the 2.3" spread could not pass through bone. My broadside and quartering shots left huge holes with short retrieves. Ribs no problem . Shoulder, chest and spine problem. I hope your arrow busted through shoulder and punctured chest/ lung.
Rage hypo or not it can get to be a real problem when mechanicals hit any bone. I agree with other comments made wait until first light. By that time if its a lethal shot he will have expired. One lung shot deer can survive a lot. Anyway by morning you will know. Best of luck and try to get some shut eye. Let us know what happened.
NickCade - very sorry to hear you had this experience. Makes for a hell of a wait regardless how long... That said, good on you not rushing it right there in the moment with the fear of snow.
Super hard to have any idea what happened. Lots of dang good ideas.
I'm in the wait category. The height you were shooting from would be a factor. If it's that red box above it's a super tough one. Pending the angle that could have been over spine (it swoops surprisingly low there at the front of the red box), but that sound sure sounds like it got in the rib cage. With no arrow to see, it could have been half the shaft in there, or 4"...
The snow sucks... but my gut says you did the right choice - liver or one lung and you needed to give him overnight. over the spine or stopped at the scap and he's in for a sore few days, and you will likely see him next year. Let us know what shakes out in the morning!
I want out carefully and started tracking. First blood spot was ALOT of blood.. 100 yards away he bedded down for a short while and bled alot, a nice pool of blood. He then traveled through a neighborhood. I meant a guy who saw me with my flash light and he gave me permission to look. I was in his driveway and heard what sounded like a strange dog bark. I then hurt a rustle and sound like thick pieces of wood crack. something big definite tried moving. I was 40 yards away on the road. At this point I did not approach. I am thinking this deer is hit one lung and is mortally wounded. He traveled 500 yards, I mapped and measured his path on google map.
"The people im calling are saying tonight, and most everyone here is saying tomorrow."
"Yes im in the snow and its coming down like crazy."
Maybe you could have your friends join and learn a few things or examine their thinking about what to do when . The average of the many tends towards the best answer and gives a chance to ask good questions to people without emotional involvement. Its not always perfect and best when the information is clear and accurate . Either way it is good counsel.
Your instinct to ask here was a wise decision . Even if you decided not to follow it. I'm sure all are hoping for your successful recovery. I hope we have a follow up this morning. Good luck .
Hate to plant this seed, but do you think that strange dog bark was a coyote on your deer? Or was it a deer sound that just sounded weird? Guess you'll find out soon when the sun comes up. Good luck!
Your best shot will be to pick up blood this morning. If he traveled 500 yds as you say I think you have a tough job ahead of you.
Nick, i'm in zone9, let me know if you need help.
Nick, If you are in north Z9 I can help as well. Just let me know.
Nock fell off
Nock fell off
tip fell uff
tip fell uff
strange orange and sweet smelling.
strange orange and sweet smelling.
Arrow fell out this morning.
Arrow fell out this morning.
Went back this morning and jumped him. The deer bedded down exactly where we heard him and left him last night around 11pm. Not a tremendous amount of blood. He went 250 yards and bedded down again. I located where he was and did the following. My friend tracked him while I got ahead of the deer hopiong I could get a shot if he got up. My friend was 40 yards away and the deer got up and walked away. That is precisely the spot the arrow finally fell out. The deer has had the arrow in him for 16 hours. After that, we followed his tracks through a huge field, 500 yards. He bedded on a ridge. The blood is extremely sparse. I did see some bright orange patches (see pictures) the smelled was extremely sweet. And lots of scat.
The arrow head is almost definitely in the deer.
And words of wisdom? Is it a good thing the arrow finally came out?
By the length of your arrow looks like minimal penetration. Don’t think you are in the body cavity. Broadhead is in shoulder, deer will survive. That’s my guess.
How far have you made it from the shot sight?
The deer has traveled a mile.
Orange patches!!!! That sweet smell is blood in the piss. I’m willing to bet you hit his liver.
Keep on his tracks and have a muzzleloader in hand you'll catch up to him
I would get after him with muzzleloader like moons said, get on his tracks one slowly stalk and the other try and circle him with wind in your favor. Good luck hope you get him!
I think he said last night that it's a bow only place ? If you're on a trail I'm thinking the orange piss you are smelling is not from him but a doe in heat ?? Just what I have seen in the past . Good luck and keep pushing him at this point .
That is not big buck droppings it is hers . Agree, that is not his blood in orange snow . He is following a doe. Urine can get concentrated from dehydration and also be affected by diet . The doe apparently bleeds during menstruation as well. Hard to tell them apart.
I believe that the arrow was being dripped on from the wound as opposed to having passed through . Broken after all. Most likely you stuck the scapula and that caused the limping that you saw.
I would like to see the original blood pool and would like to know if you see evidence of snorting blood or patches of lung tissue. If no snorting out of the mouth/nose then it didn't likely cause much damage to one lung at best.
Sorry but I think that deer is well enough to follow a doe and will most likely live. He doesn't seem to be dying . Just hurt.
Keep on him. Hope you get him
The orange color is due to the snow leaching the blood over time. Seen that many times. Gotta get muzzle loader on him like said above. That deer is not hit bad. Liver, no way he'd be dead by now.
Bummer. Pee in the snow from deer can look a lot like blood - orange red colored - this time of year due to shifting foods and higher tannin levels in the diet. But those pic's look mostly like actual blood. It's pretty bright and doesnt look like a liver hit to me. But I dont like his bedding relatively often. Making me feel single lung or muscle (shoulder or barely over the spine)... but worried about single lung given his behavior.
Keep giving it your best. Hoping you get to put another shot on him.
Looked to me like the arrow snapped off at the broadhead. That’s why I’m thinking it’s buried in scapula and not in the body cavity. Could be wrong but this buck has traveled over a mile with almost 20 hours since the shot. Doesn’t sound like a vital hit.
Very true BC. Nick - can you post a pic of a "full" length arrow next to the broken one?
Wow they are strong animals aren't they, take one to the shoulder and still have does on the mind. I hope you find him. Snow for tracking him is in your favor. Good luck.
Nickade So whats the outcome of Desperate for help. Shot a monster?
I never recovered the deer. I chased him for a long time. Every time I found him he would get up and walk away. The blood spot he left behind was smaller and smaller to almost the size of a few quarters on his last bed. While on the move, there was almost no blood at all. After the arrow came loose on the second day, its like the blood speared. I really thick it was a high back of lung shot. He was certainly making the barking type sounds the night before when we located him. Everyone I talk to says that the "bark" is a tell tale sign of lung. I think it was a poorly place lung shot.' Its a buck of a lifetime and i cant help but feel annihilated
If u think you hit lung you owe it to him to go back out today
I agree with keeping after him if you've still got blood in the snow go get him. Sounds like he's laying down as soon as he gets ahead of you too bad it's Sunday because I think you should be able to spot him in his bed and get another shot in him.
I don't think you got lung sounds like the deer will live. You tracked him a long ways good for you for keeping on him. Obviously you wanted the deer as you said it was a giant. Too bad you couldn't bring a gun in there as I think you would've been able to get him. Good luck the rest of the way the cold coming this week will have him on his feet. Get back after him!
If a mature buck lets you get close enough to keep jumping him you will eventually find him dead.(If not from the wound it will be from infection weeks later) Listen for the crows and yotes your probably looking at a recovery mission. I had similar problems with poor penetration and quartering away shots that ran down the ribs with mechanical's so I switched to fixed blade heads and never looked back. Before everyone jumps on me one of my hunting buddies shoots rage and loves them.(He shot a beautiful 8-pt this year with them) I think they work ok on broadside shots and non bone hits but can fail to penetrate on angled shots, I'm just telling you what worked for me to regain my confidence and correct my problems. I hope you do find him. Good luck.
Nick, sometime where we think we hit them actually is a lot different where it actually did. If you did catch a lung they can live longer than most people think on one lung but eventually most of them will die. Sorry to hear that you have not found it but if it was me I would still keep looking. I do want to say that you have done a fantastic job tracking that deer as far as you did. I know how you feel I have been there years ago with a huge 10 point. Deer was found over a year later and the guy who found it came to my house and gave it to me. Never loose hope Nick.
U never said where in zone 9 you are. I could go for a walk in the woods today if u needed a hand.
Nick, you did a hell of a job tracking that buck! I can sneak our for a few hours today, might be able to grab one or two of my boys to if you need some help. Have to break off at 3 though or the wife will have my head!
Everything I’ve learned in this thread:
Nick knows round about where there’s a horny monster buck in zone 9.
Dude, head over to Jerry’s, get some real doe piss and get out there!
I am kind of curious what the outcome would have been with a good fixed head on the penetration. That is not the first deer lost this year due to mechanical and poor penetration. Like Ashby wrote use a set up for when something goes wrong not for when the shot goes right. Check out Cutthroat broadheads. That damn thing would blast through any shoulder minus the joint though that’s rock hard.
nick...I agree with most of the opinions above. you hit bone, very little penetration. if you got lung, you'd most likely have seen 'some' blood spray in the snow from it breathing while running or laying down/standing up from bedding. the blood I see in the pics above look like dripping, not spray. you got muscle bleeding and a broken bone. he will live. I wouldn't push him any more than you already have. let him lay up and heel.
its just my$0.02 but...read what spike says and take it to heart. I shoot traditional 90% of the time, but even my compound setup has cut on contact solid steel broadheads (not replace-able blades...ones you have to sharpen). my trad setup has shot through the shoulder blade ridge (thickest part of the shoulder blade), nearside ribs, far side last ribs and out the other side. I have confidence this setup with penerate just about everything out there.
Sorry you didn't recover, but I'm pretty sure you'll hunt him again....and won't that be a story to tell when he's hanging on your pole.
A poorly placed shot is a poorly placed shot. Most of us have done it. Fixed, mechanical, heavier arrow, greater draw weight, none of it matters if it just hits muscle and bone. He had enough penetration that I don't think a fixed blade would have made a difference. I'm sure he will be reevaluating where his setup and shooting could be improved for next year. I'm all for giving the man time to kick himself and offer advice and opinions on setup once he asks for it.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the helpful advice. The tip broke off 1.5" inches from the broadhead. I tracked today and found nothing. Honestly though, the rain may have washed away every drop of blood there was because I literally did not see a single drop. The deer went into an orchard and it became nearly impossible to track him. There were hundreds of prints from deer.
I definitely think it has to do with my set up. This is the the second time its happened. The setup is 370 grains total. I didnt shoot an ideal shot, but I certaily should have got better penetration. I was at a steep angle. If I hit scapula, it should have driven through. Im changing my setup immediately to something in the 450-500 grains, and definitely a fixed broadhead.
I want an arrow to plow through shoulder in the event of a less than ideal shot. Having a fixed head, and very heavy heavy arrow may changed the outcome significantly. Ill never get over this one. I sure as hell wont make the same mistake again though.
Most of us have been there (God knows I have ). It's a hard pill to swallow but if you learn from your mistakes thinks will get better as you gain experience. Hang in there you'll be fine.
390gr at ~285 FPS is more than enough kinetic energy!
With a fixed Broadhead like a G5 it should go through scapula with no problem.
A mechanical Broadhead caps out at 45,000 psi on impact. The ft/pds is there, roughy 65-70 ft/pds, more than enough to get a pass through.
Now, factor in a fixed blade, a G5 caps out at 176,000 psi at the tip on impact (same ft/pds). It’s more than enough to pass through bone, it’s actually enough to puncture a bulletproof vest.
So, yeah, fixed for the win. My recommendations are G5’s and QAD Exodus.
GL,
Sorry to hear but like everyone says we've all been there. Doesn't make it any easier but you did the best you could
Absolutely NOT passing judgement. I've without a doubt been there myself.
Strange things happen when shooting at live animals....they move, you hit an unseen branch, pick the wrong pin, etc. Just saying that planning for the non ideal is better than only planning for perfection because you'll never get there. My arrows are heavy, my heads are heavy & strong...."just in case" read the Asby reports. It's not all about KE...what can be more important is momentum.
Besides, you never know when a water buffalo is gonna step out from behind that brush? :)
Heavy is better that's what I keep telling my wife about my weight. Oh are we talking arrow weight? lol.
All good stuff guys. I agree about momentum. I think it would be wise for me to prepare for a less than desirable shot than to assume Ill make a perfect one.
My new set up I want to change to is the following. My bow is a Hoyt defiance, 28" draw 60lbs Right now it shoots 380 gr 282.fps. Victory VAP TKO arrows elite. 9.5 gpi, 28" shaft. 300 spine. 95 gr insert Blazer fletchings Solid Legendary Broadhead 175 grains Total weight I calculated is 540gr, and it would go 230 fps. KE 63 Momentum .55, FOC 20.7%
Im hoping some experienced opinions in this area can can guide me. If it sounds like a bad set up, please feel free to tell me. Any thoughts?
Just to clarify, my current set up is Bemen 400 spine, rage hypodermic mechanical, total weight 380gr.
I want to switch to: Victory VAP TKO arrows elite. 9.5 gpi, 28" shaft. 300 spine. 95 gr insert Blazer fletchings Solid Legendary Broadhead 175 grains Total weight I calculated is 540gr, and it would go 230 fps. KE 63 Momentum .55, FOC 20.7%
These arrows are micro diameter.
For what it’s worth, I love Easton FMJs to help get that heavier setup.
I shoot 340 FMJs, 11.3 GPI, with a 125gr G5 Montecs.
Hoyt Faktor 30, 28” draw, 65lbs. I don’t have my computer with me now, but if I remember correctly from the software, I think I get about 260fps. Love the setup - quiet, heavy, and blasts through pretty much anything.
I shoot Easton axis with nap spitfires 100 grain. No idea what it weighs in at but likely not that heavy. I get pass thrus 95 % of the time. When my son started hunting he was shooting 40lbs and killing deer. Put the arrow in the boiler room and you get dead deer.
Your not blasting through a shoulder no matter what bow you are shooting, at least on a mature deer with good bones. Aim behind the shoulder and problem is solved.
shoulder shots are always tough. I've lost a couple that way... and they weren't big mature bucks.
I think we over think this. Myself included. Any modern set up can get a passthrough on a perfect shot. My over thinking is that I feel as if there is more non bone surface area, and quartering away shots ideally have just a lot of organ and flesh to get through... So I go moderate in weight (405grn) but very fast (320~fps - chrono speed) and use big expandables - right now rage 2.3's but I may try grim reapers next year for fun (love the rages thus far). With this set up, the vast majority have been pass throughs, but one that stands out which was not, was on a 180# buck. High entry, through the lungs and heart stuck in the cartilage just to the side of the sternum (opposite side from entry). That was with a rage hypo. The tip curlled a little too. My theory on this, is that I hit the hardest part of the ribs (high and those next to sternum), saw the deer fall... But it brought me back to the extremes becuase I like the slightly less steep blade angle. Not sure that did anything... I mean Jrdeerslayer has shot, maybe 30+ deer with rage Hypo's or the china knockoffs in CT and has nothing but love for those heads. It just got into my head and I like the bigger cut if I screw up and hit guts.
See what I'm saying - overthinking is a hobby for me.
In the end, I dont think your mech was the issue... But I do think it's not bad to get more M or KE or both... And with your set up if you can't increase # then increasing weight is the only option - whether you go to a fixed blade or stick mech.
Thanks for all the good advice. Ill be switching to a fixed head and heavier arrow. I shot this monster from 10 yards away and did not penetrate the vitals. In fact, I barely penetrated anything. I replayed the shot in my head a hundred times. I watched video after video of kill shots on other deer just for the purpose of comparing my shot. I'm very certain this (not being a perfect shot) still should have made it into the vitals. My broadhead failling by getting caught up in bone is the most logical explanation. That being said, I would rather prepare for the worst (hitting shoulder meat or scapula) and still make significant penetration. In my case this means an arrow that weighs 45% more (good) and moving 18% slower (immaterial) . 540grn @ 230fps. FOC 20.7%. Topped with a SOLID Legendary 175 grn fixed broadhead 300 spine.
It may not be the most efficient arrow for my bow, but, it is certainly the most lethal. I'm hoping that god my worst case scenario is an arrow that makes it through just one shoulder and still gets into the vitals.
Check out IronWill broadheads they are tough. Or you can try a Cutthroat or Grizzly.
Best fixed broadheads I have used the last 30 years for big midwest deer and elk have been Steelforce Broads, fly excellent out to 40 yards, Have gone though deer shoulders, scapulas etc from a 65 pound draw weight Mathews Dx, easton micro arrows, 28 inch draw. Its where you hit them that counts though mechanicals can fail a lot when you hit bone.
2 inch wide cut. Serious damage with these.
Spike, those tips look awesome. Im looking for something exactly like that. I was lloking at these:
https://www.solid-broadheads.com/solid-broadhead-products/legend-dangerous-game-175-grain
The solids look close to the Iron Wills. The Iron Wills do look tougher though. Wish they weren’t so expensive as I would like to try them.
These heads look damn near indestructible and I will probably get these for my recurve.
I cant imagine anything stopping those things. Do you suppose they would shoot accurately out of a compound?
I would think so. Then their are the Helix heads lol. Gonna make your head spin.
I'll throw out another shout for the Montec's. I have never not had a pass through. I perch them on Easton Bloodlines and steer them with FOBs. Regardless the setup you choose, next year he's a 12 pointer with drop tines. Looking forward to your next encounter with him! If you want to be certain put some trail cameras up.
G5 Montec 3 blades Fixed 125 's with a stiff arrow spine :
Get two packs and practice with one set . Easy to sharpen or resharpen but very tough and dependable. Making that extra hole in your deer is the first order of business .
Personally I think ur worrying to much about making a shot into an area where ur not likely to kill a deer no matter what head you are shooting. Practice shooting until your proficient at hitting wat ur aiming for and let the board head do its work. Take high percentage shots. If you shoot great at 30 yds in back yard when ur in ur tree take 5 or 10 yds off that. Bad shots can happen for sure sometimes but basing ur decisions on buying a broadhead that you think will get thru the shoulder really isn’t the answer.
Agreed Pro. Shot placement first and foremost.
placement and shot selection are most important, you might think you have the best KE coming out of your bow but all bets are off when you hit a deer high in the shoulder blade. 60 pounds and a heavy arrow still don't guarantee a pass through, in fact I would count on the same result with that setup. I avoid steep angle close shots, they are the hardest to make and create a small aiming point. Hunting high is great when we see more deer but man is it exponentially harder to make a good shot at those angles.
XMan and others are making the point . Older deer just make that harder still. Bigger, thicker, bones. I go for simple broad-heads with lots of power out of my bow at 70 lbs and prefer flatter shots for better placement . Lower with great concealment works well for flatter shots or wait for that deer to be out at 30 yards.
Pro and BC...I agree to a point. my buck from 2011 "could" have been another unrecovered animal, had it not been for the projectile/point combo. My shot was dead on just above the heart, broadside. just at the moment of release the buck stepped towards me - ie moved nearside front leg in my direction dropping the shoulder and making it a high 'quartering to' shot.
it became a 55# recurve shot at 21 yards quartering to, but with a 600+ grain arrow it punched through the shoulder blade ridge, top of near lung, diagonal through far lung and out the last or second to last rib. penetration stopped at the fletching in the exit hole.
if I hadn't had a heavy arrow with a strong cut on contact head I double I would have recovered that animal.
again, its just one animal, one shot, but because I 'planned for the worst' instead of 'hoped for the best' it had a successful outcome.
Placement and shot selection are the key but nobody happens to be aiming for a shoulder it just happens sometimes. If I was psychic and told you the next deer you shot was going to be in the shoulder then what would the back up plan be?
This is a circular argument. By surface area you are way more likely to hit guts than shoulder - in which case a ginormous mech would be better than a super slippery coc. But you are aiming next to the shoulder, so one could say the odds are not to different.
I'm thinking the arrow ideally is the one with the highest KE*M number you can handle accurately and the head you have total faith in.
All good stuff. From my experience and what I've read, being able to at least get through one shoulder is ideal. Reason being, if you can get through a shoulder you will get into the vitals and still have an excellent chance to harvest a deer. Not all set ups will punch through a shoulder, mechanical's will almost certainly not get through. Ultimately, having a very heavy arrow with a fixed tough as nails blade will almost guarantee you can get through at least one shoulder and into vitals. Additionally it will not hinder your ability to shoot within 20 yards. Thats the reason I'm switching to a two blade VPA or SOLID Legand 175gn. Ill still make deadly pass through on good shots and, shots with less ideal angles or poorly placed, will still make it into the vitals. The only negative I really see is less accurate shots over 30 yards and (stressing possibility) the chance of a less than ideal blood trail; due to smaller blade width. I chose penetration over size of exit wound.
All that being said, I'm still learning.
I wouldn’t mess with a shot at a deer over 30 yards and the smaller blade width will not hinder the effectiveness. Just go on the Leatherwall as these guys kill a ton of deer with 2 blade heads.
X2 Spike ! Drive a ping pong ball off a tee at a 1/2 inch piece of sheet rock. Drive a golf ball off a tee at a 1/2 inch piece of sheet rock. All factors the same except for the balls !
I've been on some fixed blade liver/ gut shot track jobs and it's not fun. Chances of finding them are pretty low. I've been on some with mechs and it's totally different. Liver shot an 8 this November. I was on the top of ravine, and he never made it out of the ravine. Blood trail was was very easy to follow. Hit a doe back in 2012 nothing but guts. She made it maybe 70 and was dead when I got to her an hour later. The 2 inch mechs are just insanely devastating, and will save your ass if you mess up. I've seen quite a few times. From others, and myself.
Fortunately today their are a few choices of fixed heads that are a wide cut so the best of both worlds. Check out Simmons, Anarchy, Centaur just to name a few.
Spike , that is good with young deer but the wide blades are a problem on old bones. Those big deer bones are tough to get through and for that a thinner fixed blade has the advantage, Especially with steep angle shots.
Each has an advantage but all have a disadvantage. If your shooting guts and liver , wide is good . If you hit bone , thin is good. More power is always better.
This story is too familiar, I took a 198lb buck this year under similar circumstances, my first with a mechanical broad-head. Based on a lot of advice I left the deer over-night and recovered it in the morning. Here's what I learned, the mechanical basically exploded going in through the ribs, the entry wound was small and from the look inside the cavity it appears two of the blades came off on entry upon impact with the ribs. Like your shot the arrow went in 16" and came out almost whole, it broke off at the insert. On exit the broad head was between the exit ribs and the skin, only one blade (not deployed) remained. It was a 53 yard shot and landed similar to your diagram, it barely nicked a lung, hit the top of the stomach, but didn't do nearly enough damage, most of the bleeding was into the cavity. I've gone back to G5 125 grain fixed broad heads on 400's. I recovered the deer, but the meat spoiled as it was early and hot, I was heart broken on many fronts.
