Muzzleloader Woes... need some direction
Massachusetts
First off- apologies for Muzzleloader questions on a bowsite... but when the weather gets cold... and I haven't practice with the bow since November.... I am happy to bring along the boomstick (until recently).
Weapon = cheap CVA inline muzzleloader... 12+ years old ... it has put down a few deers... ugly but faithful.
I was using pryrodex 100 grain with 209 primer without any issues for years... never a misfire... then I seems like I took some bad advice and switched to triple 7 a few years ago "because it is much cleaner"... I thought why not. Hindsight: I don't mind spending an hour cleaning a weapon after a shot- because it usually means something will be hanging from the meat pole.
So last year and this year, I am using triple 7 powder (50 grains x2) with a triple 7 primer from winchester.
First week of shotgun last year, had a doe 30 yards broadside. Cap went off no boom.... reloaded another cap, no boom.... Before this hunt, i pulled the breech out, checked pellets- fine (no wetness) and the breech hole was clean as a whistle. I took the gun to the range the next day, swapped out the charge . Boom on target. Put the "bad pellets" back in. Boom on target!? didn't learn much from that experiment.
Yesterday afternoon, same setup... triple 7 pellets, triple 7 primer. Doe at 40 yards, cap went off ... no boom.... loaded another cap. Cap went off and then had this fizzle roman candle thing going on... no boom.... sabot vomitted out end of barrel...
Broke down the weapon, the breech hole was still clear... the powder in my speedloaders are still dry (from I can see and feel).
My plan short term... I am switching back to regular 209 primers. I am staying with the triple 7 pellets (unless you guys tell me they are trash). I figure switching powder brands will force me to resight in the muzzleloader. Not a big deal, but I will await some advice.
Late season deer for me are like unicorns - fabled creatures. Two years in a row, I didn't get the job done- and I need to figure out where I am messing up and remedy this.
Thanks in advance.
Are you putting any oil or bore butter in your barrel if so how much ? A lot can dampen your powder making it hard to ignite.
good question, Paul. thanks. i do use bore butter and probably was too heavy handed in the past...more is better .... after cleaning the gun this morning...I went real light on bore butter...and storing the rifle muzzle down for a few hours...
Let us know if it helps out , I learned it the hard way as well good luck with your season
Urban, I’m using Blackhorn 209 powder and it is real clean stuff. I read the Triple 7 is dirty but never used it so don’t know for sure. I hardly clean my barrel and never had issues and leave it loaded all year. I never used bore butter or any of that stuff with no issues. I think Paul is right on and with the pellets being encased unless I’m wrong probably got wet around it. Try switching to Blackhorn 209 throw the butter in the garbage along with the pellets and you shouldn’t have any issues.
I doubt you need the bore butter. I have never used it and i don;t have mis-fire issues.
thanks guys....I will wipe the bore butter clean out of barell b4 next hunt....I heard good stuff about Blackhorn powder...but I think it has issues with certain breech plugs....I will investigate. thanks!
Blackhorn209 best stuff. Around. Leave in gun all year always fires. I just put gunfire condom on barrel like days like today very clean stuff too been using it for 6 years. Best stuff in my opinion
Urban all you need to do is buy a Blackhorn 209 breech plug. I bought mine off eBay and it works flawlessly.
Try a different primer, pretty sure the triple 7 primer is not as hot as others. I know if you were to switch to Blackhorn 209 they tell you to stay away from that primer.
I don't think it is the powder or even the primer choice. ( I like 777 pellets and 209 primers. no problem with 2-3 year storage ) I am convinced it is the bore butter that is left over from your cleaning. If the powder is good and it fizzled then it got the fire from the primer but the powder had soaked up something. Oil I presume unless you have a lot of moisture getting in. Dry swab it Dry the breach plug before re-assembly. And , Before loading, touch off a couple of primers to clear out any remaining solution. Load in a slightly fouled barrel from primers . Test accuracy and do it the same way every time.
I put a little gun lube in for the long storage and clean it out thoroughly again before next season. No oils used in season.
So far I have tried the CCI and Winchester primers with the Blackhorn and they both work good.
good stuff, guys....thanks! saving me a bunch of trial and error....
I use the same combination as you first stated and had the same issues. I stopped using the bore butter and haven't had an issue since. After cleaning I also leave the breach plug out and gun open overnight just to make sure everything is dry.
I'm with Bowhunter7 I love the blackhorn209.
Research Blackhorn 209. The best muzzleloader powder ever invented to date.
I have used Bore Butter for several years in my side lock and in-line muzzle loaders with no problems. After a good cleaning, you need to heat the barrel with a heat gun and apply the Bore Butter to a patch and run down the barrel. After cooling I run several patches down the barrel to remove excess ( Bore Butter bonds to the barrel and protects). Now fire a couple of primers to clear hole. I do use a light coating of BB on the sabot or patch. I do use Pryrodex or Triple 7 with similar results.
I've switched back to powder instead of pellets. Had a misfire only a couple times...seems I was crushing the pellets some and creating a space between the bullet and powder charge. Figured this was the issue...with granular powder, it never happened again.....just saying......
I am very new to the muzzleloader game. However, in one short month I have put over 100 rounds through my CVA Optima. I started with pellets, but was not getting great consistency. Granted the gun was brand new and needed some shots through it but I was not happy. I picked up some BH209 and the breech plug. I also started purchased .452 XTPs and various types of sabots.
I have tried the BH209 out in every scenario I could because I did not want a failure to fire, or any inaccuracy when hunting. I shot it with the gun clean, I shot it with it dirty. I left it loaded for a week then shot it. I kept out in the cold, then brought it into the house with powder and bullet in it and shot it two days later. I left it in the garage with a load in it for days, then shot it. Spent the day in the rain, then left it in the garage, then shot it days after. Never ever a failure to fire. The only thing I need to work out now is that the first shot out of a clean barrel is not going to the same spot when compared to a fouled barrel. I may just have to shoot off a few primers before loading it. We will see.
Oh, and to practice on the cheap..... I purchased 400 rounds of lead RN .452 bullets; 250 grain. Same size as my hunting bullet. The lead bullet and sabot costs me 29 cents. An hour or so at the range is fairly inexpensive when compared to $1 to $1.25 per shot with some of the prepackaged bullets.
My issue is not the ML. My issue is the lack of dear to shoot one at :)
Pete
Pete, don’t forget those lead practice rounds will leave a ton of residue in the barrel. My gun also seems to shoot better dirty. Every year I take it to the range and fire off rounds at a few various yards then load up for hunting. I never really clean the barrel just a swab every now and then.
I used old triple seven pellets at the beginning of the season. Inconsistent shots. I bought new pellets, changed to XTPs, and stayed with triple seven primers. Made a difference. Never had a misfire, but I plan on trying powder next year for the better accuracy and flexibility.
Excess cleaner, moisture, or bore butter are likely the problem.
Spike, I am using sabots with them. You still think it will lead up? I have not noticed it, not that I am looking down the barrel with a light or anything. I also break the gun down after every range session. I love to clean guns.
Oh I missed the part where they were sabots. Those probably won’t be dirty.
