Does anyone on here have any way of getting in touch with him. I just really want this head back
I should add the reason I had his contact info in the first place, I was going to use him to pack meat.
he told me he was back from the plains earlier this month. I just can’t get him to get back to me.
I’m not intending to bash him on here, I’m sure he’s a stand up guy. I just hoping someone might be friends with him and can help me get the moose before it’s gone. I have every intention to compensate him for his work if it came across as I was asking for charity
“however now he is giving me the run around and no longer responding“
“and can help me get the moose before it is gone”
where do you think the moose is going?
Sounds exactly like bashing...quite nasty things you are saying. If you never see the head you kinda deserve the outcome but Scott is a great guy and you will get it most likely.
runaround definition: To be deceptive and persistently evasive with someone. To delay, dodge, or frustrate (someone), especially by providing useless information or directions .
I agree patience goes a long way, but to say Truckie deserves the outcome of not receiving the moose head is a bit much.
In today's world with cell phones and emails that go to cell phones, if you cant contact someone within two or three days, they are avoiding you for a reason. Not to mention as a business owner every call or email you dont respond to or you are "too busy" for, could be money walking out the door. In a business where reputation is everything, im surprised he would even create a situation like this. Hopefully it truly is just a misunderstanding.
Oh.. Never mind...
As for this moose head issue, I wanted to talk to my Head Wrangler and a guide that are involved before I made any more statements to Dwight or publicly. Here is the "Rest of the story"...
I was first contacted by Dwight before any elk seasons opened. He inquired about elk packing services. He mentioned that a local road closure would make it more difficult for him to pack out an elk on his back due to the increased distances involved. I sympathized and said I could help him in certain areas but not areas close to my camps because my hunters would see that as a conflict of interest on my part. He agreed and we spoke of areas that would work for both of us.
In early October while I was in the North Park/Walden area conducting moose and pronghorn hunts on private land, two major snow storms hit the high country prior to the opening of 1st Rifle elk season and just after archery season closed. From Walden, I contacted my wilderness wranglers and elk guides and asked them to pack-in to our 7 unoccupied wilderness elk camps to check on the tents, repair any damage, and pack-in horse feed and dry goods for the upcoming rifle seasons. It's a good thing they did because the camps were hit pretty hard with cement-heavy type of snow - twice in one week! Two trips to each camp inside of a week makes for a lot of work and repairs. On the second trip, my Head Wrangler and a guide noticed the birds squawking on the now infamous moose kill site. The wrangler wanted to stop but the guide wanted to keep moving (plus the pack animals were loaded) and get home before the guide had to depart for another trip so they kept riding by the kill site. The kill site was just above a major horse/hiking official trail. The wrangler tells me he planned to go back and check out the kill site when he and others were back up there for 1st & 2nd Rifle season. Since I was in Walden, I knew nothing about this kill site and this all happened before Dwight found the kill site. Most all of this snow later melted prior to the opening of 1st Rifle season.
Days later during 1st Rifle season, Dwight contacted me and said he had found a dead moose and wondered if one of my moose hunters had lost it earlier. I told him we had not wounded any moose and thanked him for asking. He told me the location of the moose and asked if I could arrange for it to be packed out to him. Not knowing that my staff had already seen the birds/kill site, I indicated it should be possible and we should talk again later. I was not up there with the wranglers because I had business to conduct on the Eastern Plains. I left the wranglers a message. I also asked Dwight why he didn't take the head out with him. He said he got spooked by a storm that blew in and barely got out alive. I found this to be incredulous as my staff said it was a small storm with only a couple inches of snow and some wind - definitely not a bad back country storm in our experience. I also questioned him about how he expected to get an elk out of the same area (4-5 trips on your back) because it was not in an area where I had agreed to pack meat for him. He claimed he thought he could manage on his own. I doubted that because he didn't carry out the moose head. Then I received another call from Dwight and he indicated he had been contacted by CPW because he put a post on the Bowsite asking if anybody else had lost a moose. I then contacted the CPW and told the Officer that we had not seen anyone moose hunting in the area of the kill but had seen some muzzleloader elk hunters camped nearby earlier. I told the CPW that I figured it was a natural kill from a fight as I have seen several of those in the last 26 years. I gave him information on the muzzleloader hunters just in case. In the meantime, I received a message from my wranglers that they had packed the bull back to our base camp so I told the CPW Officer that he could find the head at our camp and told him where the carcass was found as well. The Officer rode in on horseback to check both locations and determined it was a natural death, not a wounding by a hunter. My Head Wrangler later packed the moose head out from camp and took it to HIS house. I have never had the moose in my possession and I just went to talk with my Head Wrangler now (in January) face to face and he showed the head to me. We do not live in the same town.
Now that I have had TIME to talk with my staff face to face, I will contact Dwight and give him the phone number for my employee and the two of them can figure it out. I am not involved. I was not there and did not know that two members of my staff already knew about the kill site before Dwight saw it. I was trying to be nice to Dwight and have the head packed out for him even though he was hunting in an area where I had NOT agreed to pack meat or anything else for him. I had no idea my staff had already discovered the birds/kill site when I spoke with Dwight. Both of my employees that knew about the kill site before Dwight have worked for me for over 10 years. They are honest and trustworthy. My advice to Dwight is to only hunt where he can get all his meat out on his own if other arrangements cannot be made and to pack out any heads he finds himself. It is also wise to have a hunting partner to camp with in the back country in case of illness, injury, or a storm (small or large) on a DIY hunt.
Scott made his commitment not knowing his wrangler had already seen the head. No fault of his. You would have made the same commitment if you were Scott.
Scott admits that he has been ignoring Dwight the last "several weeks" so what did you want him to do? Just drop it and always think that the outfitter screwed him out of a deadhead? Dwight originally posted about it on 10/15. 100+ days ago. If someone made a commitment to you 100+ days ago and still hadn't followed through, you would be getting a little frustrated too.
Bottom line, Dwight was only trying to get Scott to follow up on his commitment. Scott made a commitment and hasn't followed through still to this day.
Now that Scott actually has the full story for himself and we know that the wrangler has the head, Dwight and the wrangler can get in contact and work it out. For all we know, the wrangler thinks a deadhead is as worthless as I do and will just give it to Dwight. If the wrangler keeps it, well nothing Dwight can do about it. Its not like anyone is truly "owed" it.
My only advice for Scott is that if you are going to tell people you will pack heads out, dont give them advice 100 days later to pack it out themselves.
Again, nothing against Scott. I have researched his outfit in years past and read countless forums about his operation and many posts from him personally that are 100% helpful, honest and informative for anyone requesting help or information about his guide services or hunting in the units he operates in.
Dwight, at the end of the day its just a deadhead. There is no personal hardship or awesome 4 day, 6 miles back, solo hunting trip with a blizzard story behind it, so dont sweat it. If you get it from the wrangler, nothing but respect for him for understanding the commitment Scott made and being willing to give it up to fulfill that commitment. If not, move on and live to hunt another day.
As for the CPW, there is no requirement to involve them but if they want to look at the scene, obviously I have always cooperated. We have nothing to ever hide.
My advice at the end of my post is to prevent waste of game meat and emergency back country issues affecting my hunts. Numerous times I have discovered wasted meat in the field from hunters that have no business hunting where they cannot get their meat out before it spoils OR AT ALL. It is a pet peeve of mine. When I find such things, I have to let the CPW know so I don't get blamed. We have also witnessed elk hunters shooting moose on purpose and fleeing the scene. That creates a big mess for us and the CPW trying to catch them. Same for lost hunters in storms. I have had my hunts ruined by Search & Rescue teams looking for guys that have no business being in the back country who cannot follow a simple topo map and/or compass. It's better now with GPS but still a problem. I've got a million stories that will go in my book someday.
Scott what you said in your long post is mostly true with a few key details left out. When I contacted you to see if you lost a moose you were the first one to say you would be willing to pack it out. I will post the text stream in the next line to prove it if anyone doesn't believe me. I have all our conversations on text because that is how we have communicated.
To clear something up, When we originally discussed packing services he advised me he could only do it if I had an animal down that was not near another camp of his due to conflict of interest. I told him I understood and if I got something that he was unable to pack that there would be no hard feelings. I have been hunting this area for the last 4 years and I am fairly familiar with it. In case anyone knows this area I wont divulge much but typically I hunt between 4-7 miles from the truck and I always go alone. I had never had the services of a packer but I have several tags this year and if i had the chance of a few extra days with the family not spent hiking meat I would pay him to do it gladly. Scott told me about a 2 months ago that he was upset that I hunted in his area. Scott told me we needed to talk, that I broke our agreement and hunted too close to him. I told him I never had planned to change my strategy I was only going to use him if it worked out for both of Us. There is a lot that went on in this part of the conversation that I will leave out but to be frank I dont care if Scott (who has never met me) thinks I am physically fit enough to hunt the back country or not. If you know me you might understand why I think that is so funny but I digress... I understand that an outfitter might be upset when someone hikes into where they pack clients into but this is public land.
I did leave without the head, first I didn't want to disturb it if indeed it was a poached kill. Second a storm blew in and I lost my shelter that evening and got pretty dang sick. (I was a little under prepared because I usually hunt this area during archery) So I planned to go back after I got better but without shelter and being sick I did leave. After Scott offered to pack it out and the DOW confirmed it was OK and not poached I figured I would just compensate him for it and truck hunt the rest of the season.
I understand people are busy. I contacted Scott when he told me to and I followed up often when he said he to contact him back. I was always very polite. (again I have all the texts if anyone needs proof)
Scott I look forward to receiving the contact information of your employee.
Classic. Outfitter. Mentality.
Threat: an indication or warning of probable trouble.
You are free to hunt anywhere you want. You just left me with a different impression in our talks. You need to take down the post with the phone number. That is not the same wrangler. Who does this?? Geez.