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Article for those who did not see it

Posting this for others who don’t get this paper as I don’t I just saw it posted on another forum.

Sorry here is a better link I hope to take you directly to the article.

Did you get your buck ? I hear more hunters asking get a big one this year. Dnr is going to tell you what they want ? Did you get your buck ? yea i got 3, a spike, 4 point , button buck on class n tag . Sad that this is how things are in wv

If that is how things are then it’s from a poacher - because numbers show that very few legal hunters kill 3 bucks. And I fully agree - I would love to see something to help control the numbers of buttons killed. I have never done it because I always look before I shoot.

Jayd , 2 bucks tags and button buck on class n is not legal. Does dnr know how many button bucks are take on class n , I dont think they do could be wrong.

If few hunters kill 3 bucks then why would it hurt to drop the limit down to 2 bucks ? (Money that is my opinion) I am for one and done , but would be happy with 2 buck limit and button bucks count toward that limit. But i guess i am one of the few hunters who thinks that way according to dnr.

It’s sad to say but sometimes it seems like money makes the world go round - but again a very marginal number of hunters kill multiple bucks so it is probably worth it. Where they say the health of the deer and other wildlife is great I am happy for that but I would like to see our forest in healthier condition myself.

JayD, are we at the point of calling a hunter that takes a legal limit as stated above a poacher now? It seems to me that very scenario that hoppie described is what you have been passionately advocating for.

Hoppie, I too hear more hunters asking about size or age of buck rather than did you get a buck. The other thing I hear a lot of is how many bucks someone passed up.

Gobbler you and I are on the wrong channel. To me hoppies made it sound like a lot of hunters kill a 3, a spike a 4 and a button buck which yes it could be legal if they check them in but that is not the norm - the numbers do not say it is the norm. So if the average hunter is doing that - then yes they are a poacher because they are not reporting it - what would you call it? The numbers say very few shoot 2 bucks - so again if you or hoppies know otherwise than those people are poachers - because something tells me that the two of you don’t know each of the guys or gals who are legally checking in multiple bucks.

And no I have not been passionate for someone shooting 3 or 4 small bucks. I have been saying I bet that there are very few who do shoot 3 bucks I bet the one who do not all are small bucks - you all sure do like to put words in people’s mouth!

Gobbler do you really see our DNR in such sad shape as you and other say on here - that you give them a “F” for management? So these guys completely are not doing their jobs according to you and others on here?

The question was about Deer management only. I’m very happy and proud of the vast majority of things the DNR does and think they do a great job. With Deer management, taking the state as a whole in my opinion I think they are failing to do what’s in the best interest of the Deer herd. If you live in a bow county it’s easy to sit back and say everything is great. Other counties, not so much. In some areas down there such as Wyoming county the quality is dropping off because of too many Deer.

You complain about deer management. I remember in the 60's and 70's if you saw a deer track you were excited. Now when you go out if you don't see numberous does and a few bucks it is poor management or there are no deer. You should be thankful for what you have and enjoy deer hunting not complaining because you weren't fortunate enough to shoot a Pope and Young deer. They are there just not behind every tree. You won't please everyone and if you want one and done practice it. I haven't killed a buck for a couple of years, I just prefer doe to eat.

I can understand why some hunters do not want one and done. What i cant understand is why those same hunters are so against a 2 buck limit. maybe they are the few who use that 3 buck tag. I am lucky to have 1 shooter buck ( 4.5 plus ) in bow range let alone 2 or 3, so what should i care if it is one and done.

I remember those days very well also. I remember hunting and not seeing a deer for a week. I’ve never said that I don’t see enough deer, in fact too many deer is the problem in some areas. There was a time not that long ago where the majority of the state had way too many deer for the habitat to provide for, some areas still have too many deer. I am thankful for what I have but see nothing wrong with wanting to improve the deer herd, , the habitat, and hunter satisfaction. 20 years ago most people judged Deer season success if they had a buck in the back of the truck. But hunters are changing, especially the younger hunters. In the DNR Survey the age group that had the highest percentage of approval for reducing the buck limit was the youngest group surveyed. The younger generations have different goals and opinions and that is the group that needs to be focused on. They are the ones that are going to be carrying the torch going ahead and buying or not buying licenses. If we don’t provide what they are looking for they will seek it somewhere else. Hopefully we can reverse the trend of decreasing license sales, but I don’t see it happening doing the same thing over and over. One of the reasons WV is at the bottom of the list of so many things is because people are satisfied with the status quo and afraid of any little change . As I have said 100 times I’m not specifically a one and done person. But self imposed limits will never work in WV unless someone has control over at least 2000 acres. I’ve killed 2 bucks in the last 5 years in WV because those were the only two that I had a good chance at and were what I wanted. I eat a lot of does also.

A serious question, how many would quit hunting in WV if the buck limit was reduced?

I don’t think the question should be would you quit hunting but would you reduce your hunting? Yes I would and hunt other states. I would more than likely reduce the management I do on my land as well and spend the money to hunt other places - so who benefits? I also would stop buy an extra tag as well and just use my lifetime license or landowner tag. And again I ask other states have multiple buck tags and perform as well or better than certain states you all quote as being so great that have very limited tags - why is that ? And our number one game animal is deer and you gave them an F so I just don’t see how you can say you are that proud of them if you give me them an F on probably the biggest job that they are responsible for? Or is the F a way to help promote the cause to lower the buck limit?

JayD, you are free to have whatever opinion you choose to have. Whatever I say you will question it. And that’s ok. If you don’t understand how I can be an advocate for and be proud of the DNR but still feel the Deer herd can be managed much better then I don’t know what else to say. So, I’m done with this one.

BTW, CJ Winard from bowhunting magazine told me that while doing research for a story he discovered that in states with a lower limit and/or antler restrictions hunters actually increased their time Afield because they became more selective in what they kill.

Jayd J You said Multiple !! buck tags, Does that mean 2 or 3 buck tags. I ask You what states have a 3 buck limit that you seem to think are so good. Just dont understand why you are so against a 2 buck limit?

Gobbler Probably none would quit hunting, but they would hunt a lot less. The hunters that I know hunt for meat and a nice rack is a plus, but they will shoot the first adult deer. I know of a few that pass on small racks at the start of the season, but by season's end they are particular. The three buck limit has keep hunters in the woods and tag sales high and there are plenty of deer and if you hunt the right areas and put the time in your will find your big rack.

Mountain, I appreciate that but it isn’t about me. It’s about what’s right for the deer, the hunters, the DNR, and the state going ahead. I’ve got plenty of good racks on the wall, most taken elsewhere with a gun.

Hoppies I was the one on here who came up with the phrase - 2 and your thru! So I am not against it - if the Dnr thought a lower limit was needed I would be fine with a two buck limit. They say a two buck limit would not make a difference and would only hurt revenue - so why do it? And there are multiple states with multiple buck limits - research a bit. Not saying that to be smart but after researching and seeing how they operate and the results from them maybe you will understand why I feel the way I do. Gobbler sorry to upset you - just hard for me to comprehend how you can give someone an F for their main job but then say you are proud of the work they do. - just confusing.sort of like you saying it’s easy for someone from a bow hunting only county to say things are good.

Not upset JayD, just tired of going around the hamster wheel

BTW, do u have a new BBF?

Jay D ....I would say your right in the fact that not as many people kill 3 bucks, but the issue is, how many people kill the 1st buck they see in bow season knowing they have a 2nd tag to use on a older mature buck? How of those same people then go into gun season with that same mentality? Killing 2 immature bucks while holding those xtra tags.

How many people would kill the the 1st buck they killed this year if it was 1 and done? or 2nd on an APR? I bet most of those bucks would have walked...

Guys suggesting a lower buck limit will reduce days afield are aware that united states fish and wildlife stats suggest the opposite is true?

Yea - I sort of take that with a grain of salt - I literally had a well known biologist tell me one time that a one buck limit would result in more hunting time in the state after he just killed a buck and was packing to go to another state to hunt. Not complaining about it - he was just doing the same thing as I would do. Big-Otis that’s the thing it is all just guessing on both our parts - we will never know unless it happens - I am hoping I won’t have to worry about it.

So hard, how many times have you filled your archery tags and gone to hunt another state to extend your archery season?

I live on a county that borders the Ohio river, Was employed in Ohio 14 years , father owned land in Ohio at one time, hunt with friends in Ohio, and believe me there is no comparison to size and number of older class deer you will see . It always amazes me size of sheds friends find. Had co worker tell me one time easier to find big sheds when there are big sheds to find. Might be something to do with 1 antlered deer rule.

Well thankfully At this moment WV gives us the opportunity that we don’t need to go elsewhere if we don’t want to - which I think is a good thing. One buck limit or the fact there is a higher percentage of private land and OH is 69% agriculture compared to WV being 76% forest. I am sure those two things have nothing to do with it.

Jayd , How many times have you hunted the state of Ohio, counties that border the Ohio river are much the same as far agriculture concerned, corn, soybeans, I honestly think if you could see the number of older class bucks that they take in counties that border mason co wv where i live. Maybe you could see what i am trying to say. Other than maybe the bow only counties , I dont know of anywhere in wv where you have the same opportunity to see and take a older class whitetail buck as Ohio,

Hoppie, I agree with you. Yes OH has more Ag than we do overall. It increases as you go north and west. SE Ohio in my opinion is not that much different than western WV in habitat. And yes OH Deer are supposed to be a different subspecies than WV Deer . But subspecies delineation is a gradual process that may occur over a few hundred miles. It’s not like there’s a high fence separating the two subspecies. I would venture to say that a Deer on the WV bank of the Ohio river is not much different than a Deer on the OH bank of the Ohio river. Now a deer in western OH close to Indiana is probably going to be more different than a deer in WV close to the VA border. But even that has become fuzzier because of transplantation of Blennerhasset Deer into southern WV and going back even further Michigan Deer into WV in a few places when WV had very few Deer left.

But getting back to your point, I think the main difference of what you are seeing across the river in SE Ohio is the contrast of 2 different types of management.

Hoppies it must be because we live in different sides of the state - I am telling you right now the guys I Know in MD, VA or PA on the norm don’t kill anything bigger than what I do and most of the time they cannot believe what I kill here in WV. Gobbler’s nephew killed one heck of a deer in MD but that is not a common occurrence there. I can understand why you think one and done is so great - I don’t see it as the main variable for OH or KY’s result. I think the article I post in another post from The Kramer guy hits the nail on the head. We will just have to disagree - in my opinion it doesn’t make you a bad guy - just wrong! LOL jk oh and I didn’t lie about what I saw for those two weeks as well - just to set the story straight. I am excited for this Fall already!

I am excited about next fall also , I saw a couple good bucks this year that i think made it thru rifle, muzzle loader seasons and passed on couple more that just where not old enough. Hopefully i will confirm that some of those bucks made it when i pull sd cards this week.

Yes I need to get my cards back in my cameras - I got lazy and didn’t put them back in.

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