I am surprise it happened this quick!
Contributors to this thread:West Virginia
From: JayD
10-Jan-18
JayD's Link
I figured the crossbow kill would surpass the bow kill eventually but within 3 years! Wow!
From: sundaynwv
10-Jan-18
It's just fine the way it is! A+++
From: David Mitchell
10-Jan-18
I sure don't agree that it is just fine the way it is. I totally expected this result. The theme of the day is "easier". I lived and hunted in Ohio when they legalized crossbows during archery season. It didn't take long for the same results we see here. Crossbows are not bows. I knew that lots of guys would be throwing down their compounds for a yet easier way to kill deer. They now have created a crossbow that is advertised as "your next rifle". Hunting accuracy at 100 yards is advertised. How long before we see them taking over the woods I wonder. This same thing has happened to muzzleloader hunting. What was once a primitive weapon season has been largely taken over by brassless center fire rifles with scopes and essentially the challenge of the primitive sport has been lost largely to technology and the desire for "easier". On principle, I am not opposed to those modern high tech weapons, they should just be put in the regular rifle season. I realize I am in the minority, but the impact on our herds and seasons will be felt more and more. We have started down a path that we will not be able to come back from due to the fact that money and special interests speak too loudly to our legislators.
From: JayD
10-Jan-18
I totally agree - I think WV got this right by making a crossbow season concurrent for the time being with archery season.
From: JayD
10-Jan-18
David - I think WV set it up if the numbers increase too much a shorter season or something will happen and it does not have to affect bow season then.
From: Babysaph
10-Jan-18
I didn't think it would take that long. How can a weapon that has surpassed a weapon in kills be used in a season that is for primitive weapons? It has to sell tags though. I know guys that have never bow hunted that use them
From: Babysaph
10-Jan-18
And Dave for what it is worth I am in complete agreement with you. And we are surely in the minority but that is ok with me. Luckily I own enough land and they are not allowed on my property
From: Lefthand Hunter
10-Jan-18
For what it's worth Dave, I agree with you completely. It was a big mistake to put them in archery season.
From: David Mitchell
10-Jan-18
Well, lefthand, technically they didn't put them in "archery season" but created a "crossbow season" that just happens to run concurrently with archery season. Just one way politicians and bureaucrats have of creating nice loop holes to say they didn't do what they did!
From: JayD
10-Jan-18
If you look the total archery and crossbow harvest did not go up but crossbow did surpass the bow kill. Again I think WV did get it right by creating a crossbow season. Now if the kill gets higher than they want they can shorten crossbow season and not bow season. Other states that included the crossbow into their archery season - would have to pretty much shorten the season for everyone.
From: Big-Otis-Jeff
10-Jan-18
With the bag limits in place now= bad idea about concurrent season ....Now , get the limits down, not an issue.
From: JayD
10-Jan-18
The increase of archery harvest in both OH and PA since the crossbow was put into bow season has been an issue in each those states. Both states are considering shortening their bow seasons. And they are each one buck limit states so I guess we need to make it zero bucks for it not to be an issue?
From: Big-Otis-Jeff
10-Jan-18
As i have said in the past......one and done solves many issues.........Including this one.
From: JayD
10-Jan-18
So it solves it here but not in OH or PA? It is truely magical the way it will supposedly work.
From: hookman
10-Jan-18
I am not totally against crossbows but don't agree with the hype. 100 yard shots is not an ethical shot regardless if it's in the open or not. Most shots have brush, limbs and other obstructions to deflect the arrow to cause a bad shot. Nuff said.
From: sundaynwv
10-Jan-18
If inclusion in a one buck state is an issue, how can inclusion in a 2 buck archery state not be an issue?
From: Big-Otis-Jeff
10-Jan-18
plus in Ohio, bow season runs from what, end of Sept to middle of Jan? I would think that is a tad bit long.
From: RunNGun18
10-Jan-18
Babysaph, just my 2cents which probably isn't worth 1 cent.......but I wouldn't call bows of today primitive weapons by any means!! They are very technically advanced to say the least! Now if everyone hunted with recurves then yes that would be primitive weapons! I have all 3 and have killed deer with all 3! I agree with crossbows being allowed but that doesn't mean everyone gonna go get one and go shoot a deer! Contrary to popular belief ya just can't pick up a crossbow and hit what your aiming at without practice! Plenty of deer out there, makes no difference if they shoot more during bow season or all the extended doe seasons, #s on on par with previous years with their highs and lows! Heck in the early 80's you be lucky to see a deer a day let alone be able to pass on several deer! Not bashing anyone just giving my thoughts on this subject! Keep hunting men!!
From: WV Mountaineer
10-Jan-18
I have to pubically admit, I didn't think this was going to happen. I just really didn't. I was pretty certain that number of kills wouldn't go up and, they haven't as of yet. But, I never thought this many bow shooters would trade a bulky, clangy crossbow for their vertical bow. God Bless men
From: David Mitchell
10-Jan-18
Actually run n gun I have picked up a crossbow and in less than 10 shots was hitting a styrofoam coffee cup at 60 yards and that with only sight pins--no scope.. That was 32 years ago so would guess they are a bit more advanced technologically than that one was.
From: Babysaph
10-Jan-18
I agree rut gun but we all know they won't go to traditional only . I guess since the compound bows are not primitive we could allow rifle in the bkw season too . Wait, they already do that with the early rifle hunts. Bowhunting is a short range sport in my opinion.
From: Babysaph
10-Jan-18
Once again I agree with Dave. My neighbor in the mountain got one because he couldn't kill a deer with any other type of bow. He had it sighted in and gave it to me to shoot. I hit the bullseye on the first shot at fifty yards. I handed him my recurve and asked him to do the same. He couldn't even get it to full draw.
From: hoppies56
10-Jan-18
I can shoot 2 inch groups at 60 yards with my Mathews, but would never take a shot at a buck that distance. last i shoot it was week before rifle season and wont shoot till March before Turkey season. Guarantee when i pick it up in March i will shoot 2 inch group at 60 yard.Compound bows today are just as good as any maybe better in right hands, Now stick bows that is a different story. Doesnt make anyone less of a hunter just because he or she uses a crossbow. we need all the hunters we can get nowdays.
From: hoppies56
11-Jan-18
If it so much easier to kill deer with crossbow and more hunters are using crossbows, then why are archery/ crossbow harvest numbers down ? I dont think crossbows are as much of a problem as an over killing of deer in certain areas
From: Jack Whitmrie jr
11-Jan-18
I don't have a problem with crossbows, just the people who think it is ok to say they are a bow. I said they would surpass the archery kill and they have . Hate to be a downer but here is what is yet to come. Most people will say that is OK also.
* Next will be a shorter season - like VA and PA * Then Muzzleloader in the middle of the rut - like VA
From: JayD
11-Jan-18
Jack that is why WV did it the right way - making a crossbow season - they can reduce the season and let bow season be.
From: hoppies56
11-Jan-18
Those things may happen someday Jack and Jayd, But you guys know change doesnt come easy in Wv I think the state missed a chance for extra revenue by not charging 10 dollars for a crossbow stamp.
From: sundaynwv
11-Jan-18
But Johansen said he doesn't want to limit opportunity and shortening season would drastically limit opportunity.
From: David Mitchell
11-Jan-18
It seems the powers that be think it is OK to just take our archery season and put whatever they want in it--early gun hunts, youth gun hunts, senior and youth gun hunts, after Christmas "family" gun hunts, gun seasons pretty much throughout December, x-bows, etc. We get what's left of our season.
From: JayD
11-Jan-18
Well for the time being the season doesn’t need to be shorten but where I think they got it right and made it separate season so if the season needed to be shorten they can do it without affecting bow season.
From: babysaph
11-Jan-18
They can but they won't. The crossbow guys will cry so much they will be forced to shorten both seasons. I agree with Dave. We have all kinds of guys hunting during the bow season now. I won't let it bother me. I will hunt with my bow no matter what. I am lucky that I have some land and some friends with land that isn't rifle hunted.
From: Ron Miller
11-Jan-18
Hook man , 100 yards with a crossbow, I’ve seen the add that the shoot 3 inch groups at a 100 yards ! Is that ethical ? I think not ! The WVBA guest speaker this year typically shoots 70-100 yards with his bowtec !!
From: Babysaph
11-Jan-18
100 yards is a long drive in a Buick.
From: gobbler
11-Jan-18
When zone was in AZ elk hunting and practicing during the day I was proud that I was getting good shots at 50-60 yds. Some of the guys that were guiding that hunted coues Deer every year was drilling the bullseye at 100-110 yds with their bows. It was amazing to watch them shoot.
From: woodstick
11-Jan-18
From: RunNGun18
11-Jan-18
Listen regardless of the weapon someone chooses to hunt with bottom line they are still hunters! Yes some weapons may take more skill and practice then others but to each his or her own! Some people use shotguns and slugs in rifle season, some use muzzleloaders during rifle season, heck some use bows all year long, never a gun! Yes there may not be as many deer today in certain parts of the state but in other's they are!! Since the more liberal doe seasons I have seen an increase in the buck size on several properties I hunt in the last 5-10 years! No increase in deer killed overall regardless of weapon choice! Have fun hunt ethically and practice practice practice!!
From: hoppies56
11-Jan-18
Very well said, RunNGUN
From: Jack Whitmrie jr
12-Jan-18
"They can but they won't. The crossbow guys will cry so much they will be forced to shorten both seasons."
EXACTLY
From: Babysaph
12-Jan-18
I agree to each their own. But let's have each weapon in their own season. Overlapping the seasons and saying they are separate is not the same. I do realize however that the state is forced to do this to sell tags. They want more deer killed and Bowhunters simply won't kill enough.
From: woodstick
12-Jan-18
Don't know why I have a blank comment above. I never chimed in. I know I'm seeing a lot of crossbow users in Wyoming county. Must not be hard to get a Dr's excuse.
From: JayD
12-Jan-18
If it was the case that they will still shorten bow season along with crossbow season if or when they think it is needed - I just don’t see them doing it. If it was the case that they would shorten both seasons then why make it a crossbow season and not just lump them in with archery season to begin with?
From: David Mitchell
12-Jan-18
Woodstick, you don't need a doctor's excuse any more--they legalized x-bows for anybody.
JayD it's called political cover--or cya in the vernacular. They can claim the high ground--"Oh no, we didn't put crossbows in archery season, they have their own season" which just happens to be archery season. Politicians are great at such things.
From: woodstick
12-Jan-18
You do in the bow only counties. It's bow only. Crossbows can be substituted for a bow if you have a medical excuse.
From: David Mitchell
12-Jan-18
OK, gotcha. :o)
From: Babysaph
12-Jan-18
Why can't you use crossbows for deer in the bow only counties?
From: gobbler
12-Jan-18
They were exempt in the law unless u have a special crossbow permit
From: babysaph
12-Jan-18
but why? a bow is a bow in the other counties.
From: gobbler
12-Jan-18
I can’t answer that because I only have opinions not facts on that one. I do know the DNR is proud of having one of the biggest bow-only deer hunting areas anywhere. I’m just not sure it’s a good idea to allow open crossbow hunting for bear in the same area at the same time.
From: woodstick
12-Jan-18
I had a picture of some guy on 4wheeler riding by my camera with a cocked crossbow. Dont know what he was hunting.
From: David Mitchell
12-Jan-18
Not untypical.
From: Babysaph
14-Jan-18
But a crossbow is a bow . That has been determined. They are allowed in the other counties Why not allow them in the bow only counties?
From: JayD
14-Jan-18
No it has not been determined - I took a screen shot of the most recent reg’s - a crossbow is not considered a bow in WV - the crossbow season does run concurrently with archery season though.
From: Babysaph
14-Jan-18
Well say what you want. If you are hunting the same time I'm bow hunting then you are hunting during the bow season. Like Dave said its just the wording.
From: JayD
14-Jan-18
Well the decision could have been to insert crossbows in to archery season like most other states have - WV did not so at least there is the option to short one season and not the other if they feel it is needed. Right now both OH and PA are considering shortening there archery season because crossbows have made such a huge impact. I am glad we are not in their shoes.
From: sundaynwv
14-Jan-18
At least we have the option to lower the limit.
From: Christian Deerslayer
14-Jan-18
Its also important to look at this another way. The use of crossbows is better for the deer. By that I mean that a lot of hunters (true with guns also) take their bow out of the case a week before deer season opens, fire a few arrows, and call it ready. Yet, when the action comes, they don't have the fundamentals down and only end up wounding the deer and possibly never recovering it. The deer suffers and maybe dies, maybe not, but suffers nonetheless. At least with crossbows, it takes the bow out of the hands of the lazy, marginal hunters and gives them the chance to get their prize with the little practice they are doing.
From: Babysaph
15-Jan-18
You are right Christian but you made my point. Crossbows are just too easy and do not belong in a bow season where it is a short range sport. I have a neighbor that can hit the bullseye and 100 yards with his. My friend in the mtn that owns the mom and pop store where I hunt orders bows for people. He has ordered hundreds of bows for people that have never bow hunted before. They use it as another way to kill a deer. And when the crossbow season is shortened the bow season will be too.
From: Babysaph
15-Jan-18
You are right Christian but you made my point. Crossbows are just too easy and do not belong in a bow season where it is a short range sport. I have a neighbor that can hit the bullseye and 100 yards with his. My friend in the mtn that owns the mom and pop store where I hunt orders bows for people. He has ordered hundreds of bows for people that have never bow hunted before. They use it as another way to kill a deer. And when the crossbow season is shortened the bow season will be shortened too. I argree. If we are killing too many deer just reduced the bag limits.
From: Babysaph
15-Jan-18
I meant to say he was ordering crossbows for guys that didn't bow hunt at all when they were illegal. I know you guys are like me and I work hard to be a good bowhunter and be proficient with my bow. I would at least like to have a season where that is recognized and filled with other weapons. That is my rant. I am done. I realize what is happening and all I can do is keep doing my think and not worry about it.
From: hookman
15-Jan-18
I don't know if someone misunderstood me or not but I was meaning I think a hundred yard shot is absurd with any weapon except a gun/ muzzleloader.
From: Babysaph
15-Jan-18
Me too Hookman. That was my point. Lots of guys are taking them with those crossbows
From: Christian Deerslayer
15-Jan-18
I'm in agreement with you. I don't much like them either. But, there are two sides. I have a friend who could absolutely drill with a bow. Shot in several world tournaments. However, he messed up his shoulder to the point he could never draw a bow back again so having a crossbow worked out great for him (he got the permission through his doctor anyway). But, at the same time, I see crossbows like I see these new-fangled muzzleloaders - with scopes and the works that are capable of long-range shots. They are "in name only". I could go out with a single-shot 12 gauge slug gun and be more in line with the ethics of muzzleloading season than these new muzzle rifles. I guess my long winded point was we are losing the spirit of the law.
Oh well, just my two cents.
From: Babysaph
16-Jan-18
we are actually losing hunting the hard way. And that is ok. we do lots of things the easy way. I use a phone and a computer and a truck. But when it comes to hunting I like the challenge of the hard way. But that is just me and sometimes I get a lil carried away with my enthusiasm for it. I am just glad I can still hunt the way I want to. And who am I to judge a guy that wants to do it the easy way?
From: Little Bear
19-Jan-18
Little Bear's Link
WI has experienced the same trend we have seen in WV. Interesting how they note the claims of the Xbow industry that it would attract droves of hunters hasn't really happened. They have seen license sales decrease. I also like how they are monitoring the effectiveness of the weapon and can shorten the season just as can be done in WV, providing someone is watching - and WE ARE!
From: Babysaph
19-Jan-18
Yea but they are still are killing more deer than bowhunters. I'll bet they shorten bofe seasons if they are shortened.
From: Big-Otis-Jeff
21-Jan-18
Bad as i dislike crossbows.....There are some good points, easier to shoot,less practice to get them shooting.......I hate it, but i would rather have someone jump over to a crossbow who doesn't practice very much, way easier to make a good with it, versus a bad shot with a bow.
From: Christian Deerslayer
21-Jan-18
Exactly my sentiments, Otis. Most importantly, its better for the deer.
From: JayD
21-Jan-18
Big Otis - you see there is something we can agree on! I know others disagree but I do think if the time comes where the powers that be think to many deer are being killed with them - then they will shorten the season and not our bow season. I have shot a recurve most of my life and still do but if the time comes that I need to use one - I will and if they shorten the season then I hope I feel the same way as I do today!
From: Big-Otis-Jeff
22-Jan-18
It about broke my fingers to type that...LOL...........But on a different note, it also makes guys think they can shoot them like rifles at any distance, which could causes some wounding issues........ I wish it had never passed, but it is what it is and who knows, i may need one one day......Hopefully not.
From: Christian Deerslayer
22-Jan-18
As much as we'd all hate to admit, hunting is a privilege rather than a right. And, sadly, its a privilege I think is slowly eroding away. Even worse, its not by the actions of the antis.
I just don't feel as if the younger generation is as into hunting anymore. They don't see guns as tools anymore but as weapons of mass destruction that are fired on video games and in schools and casinos. Not to mention putting forth the effort to learn to shoot a bow at an animal. Not everyone or everywhere, but overall. 20 years ago the first hour of rifle season sounded like a Vietnam firefight - you could actually track an animal by the gunfire! I can remember even just 10 years ago on the first morning of rifle season it wasn't uncommon to hear 15-20 shots in the first hour. Every year since that number has dwindled. I think this year, I may have heard maybe 3. I bowhunted on youth day this year and didn't even realize it until someone told me. I heard one shot and figured that could have been a squirrel hunter.
I know crossbows are taboo to some (me included right now) but until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes, or find ways to get more kids hunting (even easier ways) then this great privilege we have may slowly erode away in our lifetimes.
From: Babysaph
23-Jan-18
Christian Deerslayer. Make sure you wear that blaze orange while hunting in the yute season. :}. And I agree with ya. Kids generally are not into hunting anymore. Real hunting is hard work. Hunting is declining. I don't mind though.
From: gobbler
23-Jan-18
I think we all should all be concerned about it. I know it sounds good if hunters numbers decline because that would mean more for the few remains hunters would have more and be less crowded . Unfortunately, that would put the DNR out of business. What we need is something people want to get them out in the woods hunting and keep them hunting. Otherwise the quality of DNR and what it manages will go downhill.
From: Babysaph
23-Jan-18
I agree with that but the liberal seasons hasn't done it and reducing the buck kill and revenue would not do it either. If it was good for the deer they would have done it. I don't think they can afford to reduce the buck kill. It is a precarious situation. Neither choice will not help the DNR. It is hard to get the younger people into hunting. Like I say the liberal seasons have not done it. I am not sure what the answer is. Kids have more choices these days. When I was growing up we played sports and hunted. I have families come in my office and their kids are waaaay too busy. Hunting is the last thing they choose.
