Crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow
Wisconsin
Crossbow deer kill topped vertical bow kill in Wisconsin this season for first time in history. Also the combined crossbow and vertical bow buck kill set a record. MJS article summarizes the data through last week.
There you have it, bowhunting (as defined by the P&Y Club) is in a rapid decline in Wisconsin, Michigan and other states. Little overall hunter recruitment, more hunters during the archery season, and less during the gun season.
Lots of bowhunters have quit bowhunting and become crossbow hunters. Real bowhunters, hunting the hard way, are once again a minority and elite group.
The P&Y Club and others should take note of the huge drop in potential members, entries and revenue from Michigan and Wisconsin.
Here is a big issue with crossguns. As they get more accurate, the ability to kill doesn't change. It is hard enough to see an arrow hit at 20 yards let alone 75 or more yards.
How many crossgunners are inexperienced trackers and assume they missed, or cannot locate the hit?
I am going to go out on a limb here, but I would believe the recovery rate of crossguns is all over the map.
Inexperienced gun hunters are bad enough, but normal damage inflicted with a bullet can exceed a poor broad head hit. There is vice versa too, but why is there a need to shoot a broadhead up to 100 yards? I take back my saying about change being good!
Treefarm - I know a fellow that has gone to a crossbow two years ago and has lost five deer in those years . He blames it on his broad heads, but not on the ridiculous long shots he has taken.
We are headed in the same direction as Ohio & a few other states . In the near future we will be limited to 1 Deer per year per hunter .
If you kill a Deer on opening day of Archery you are finished for the year .
When we were fighting the crossguns we tried to warn everyone .
Remember to thank the DNR, NRA & the crossgun factories when it happens .
"When we were fighting the crossguns we tried to warn everyone ." So true, yet to this day, we have a few members here who will defend crossbows, singing "kum by ya" as archery hunting becomes a lost art.
Thank the love of money and making things easier too
No Ruger, thank the hunters who buy and use crossbows. They are the driving force.
When something easier is offered more people partake. When smoking weed is legal in Wi, do you think there will be more or less weed smokers?
Missouribreaks, Exactly. Hunters created the demand for them. No demand =No crossbows. They are here to stay. The question is where will crossbow numbers level off at? And once they level off, what will the success rate be?
Follow the money. Some politician benefited from this or it would have never even came about. Now that it's here it is never going back.
Consumers drive consumption, be it weed or pop tarts.
Where will crossbow numbers level off? I do not know, I believe the next major recruitment to crossbow use will reside with the P&Y Club. If P&Y accepts them, then I would expect at least a small acceleration towards crossbow purchases. Another hurdle are western states such as Montana. Some multi-state hunters keep using compounds so they can hunt in areas such as Montana where crossbows are currently not legal. With time, these obstacles will be minimal.
If one reason given was to allow young kids to partake (although lame reason), do you think kids will move to archery tackle? HA! Why does it have to be easy? How did crossguns ever become a tool other than for elderly or disabled? I wonder when wheel chairs will become the norm for walking???
Crossbows shooting 440 feet per second. Manufacturers touting 100 yard shots last year pushing the envelope to 200 yards this year.
We are well on our way to a 1 buck a season choose your weapon.
Regardless if a bow could shoot a thousand yards, what does that have to do, with having a one buck season..... If it was to happen, than it should be for biological reasons, real science not political science....
Now there are always two sides to every coin, so I will play devil advocate,,,, what the compound shooters are most upset about, is sharing the woods, not wanting more people out there,,,,,, I think that is true......
We have the argument of having to pull the bow back, yet we have compounds going 90 percent let off, they already have triggers, and lazer sights and range finders all in one, I mean it continues to make the argument weak
A plus is more money in the Pittman Robertson fund, that we get a share of... It allows younger hunters to get in the game sooner, under supervision of course. just sayin....
I do not believe that the average cross bow shooter, is spending money on bows that shoot 100 yards or more, as well as actually doing it, no more than do I believe the average compound shooter is spending a lot of money on lazer/range finder sights
DT talks about distance, well lets see, the compound shooters are touting all the time, on bowsite to You Tube on there 75 yard plus shots, and striving for more with there equipment........ The average cross bow, bought by the average guy is what a 40 yard weapon,,,,,,,,,, in the real world
this month I have used a Parker cross bow,,,, to be honest its a pain in the a.. I would not walk with one cocked, so that eliminates the ability to shoot while on the move for the most part,,,, I am sure some do, but I wouldn't, not safe...... I hunt stuff that maybe you could sneak an arrow thru at 30 yards, but that is all,,,,,,,
I understand, a deer in the field is another thing, I am sure many cross bowers will take that long shot, but so will his compound counter parts.............
I am just stating facts, that I see out there,,,, me I have a new take down recurve, that came to me last Sept, and I pull it every day, and am about 2 months away I think, from being spot on,,,,,, In April I will pick up my new long bow, that I bought last Sept......
These are 15 yard weapons for me, I take pride in being able to shoot close. I love the looks and feel of my stick, and work hard to be able to shoot one,,,,,
I will watch the war, between the compounders and the cross bowers, which they are getting more and more alike......
The cross bow has been around since the 2nd century, and the last time I looked, still shoots 1 arrow...... My recurve in my hand, under 20 yards, I am more deadly and faster,,,, I can shoot moving deer , I can shoot when I am on the move, and I can have 3 arrows out, before the cross bow is cocked....
I do believe that archery would not be as great as it is today, if it was not for the compound,,,,, it let so many in the game, but I remember how many said, "its too easy"
I understood back than that not everyone is going to dedicate him or herself, to shooting a recurve or long bow,,,, I get that.......
I have no concern about the cross bow,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Because the deer numbers may be higher, but that is only because rifle hunters have joined the ranks, but we still are not recruiting more hunters, for the most part
Its nice to see the passion, but in the end, its not that important in the scheme of your real life.......
Just enjoy your days afield,,,, be a good steward of the land, and show respect for the animal, and other hunters........
The weapon choice, does not define a hunter, its his choices in the woods and his actions, that define a hunter
You guys can start here. Mary Felzkowski, http://legis.wisconsin.gov/assembly/35/felzkowskiShe (Mary Chaja) at the time, was the one to introduce and push the crossbow legislation, aided by the NRA Rep, (Brent Gardner, Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/brentwmgardner?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab&pnref=friends.all ) who was with the NRA at the time, and Scott Meyer (Facebook https://www.facebook.com/scott.meyer.12139) who at the time was working with and representing the WI Bear Hunters.
These people were the main ones driving the issue. At this time, Gardner and Meyer have moved on to other, sleazy lobbying positions but Felzkowski (Chaja) is still in the legislature.
Albeit slight, there is a chance that the legislature or the DNR Board could be swayed to look at and consider shortening the crossbow season. This might only come about by a loud and recurring voice from hunters and constituents. The WI Bow Hunters are still actively pursuing this.
A good friend whacked a 14 pt 166 inch bruiser in Marathon cty recently . He admitted that he pulled off an 80 yard lung shot . The quality of our Deer herd will slowly go down .
Yes the WBH is still fighting this battle. It's all we can do. Thanks to the big money machine....the NRA. Funny how the NRA can keep asking for $$ when they pulled this crap.
The writing is on the wall , just a matter of time.
Some more will quit to. As of February 1st two more counties have been added to the infamous no feeding list for at least 2 years. A lot of guys don't know how to hunt unless they have a golden pile of feed in front of them. It will be interesting how this goes around La Crosse metro, especially late season.
I thought baiting was the ticket until this year....I decided to spend the rut hunting and camping in Marinette. Every hunter had a pile of corn.
They would all mention they had deer on cameras but nothing during shooting light.
Heck....maybe baiting is great for the herd. Secure food, makes them nocturnal thus less harvested.
I believe we should bring back a Primitive season,,,,, that is both archery and ML,,,, I remember going to the WCC hearings and all of the old goats were complaining, they needed scopes, since there eyes were not as good,,,,, they said to me,,, one day your eyes will be like ours,,,,, my answer was,,,, get closer when you shoot......
I believe all baiting should be banned period,,,,,, but where do you draw the line on the compound, which is getting so efficient, not much of a primitive season anymore
No Ruger. Thank Scott Walker. The clown you and many other "Sportsman for Walker" voted for. He's the one that sold out to the NRA and crossgun companies. So, he had support for his "lame and laughable" attempt at becoming President.
Another battle. I think Ruger & Captmike are on the ball. Nobody could beat the NRA and the others involved in this issue. I think the NRA should stick to the many and more important gun issues and not stick their nose where it doesn't belong. There is nobody to blame except maybe the crybabies that do nothing but complain. I can't wait until the xgun gets taken out of the rut. We will need all the clubs and organizations to help on this one. I wish we could go back to a traditional season only but that is not going to happen. One thing that I find funny is all the xgun kill pics I see don't have a weapon in the pic but they say they shot it with a bow. I guess they are a bit embarrassed that they took the easy route. Just my personal opinions.
I hope you're right albino. The xgun season should be shortened. But, that involves politics. The same politics and political supporters that put it there in the first place. Just don't see that happening.
Stagetek, what did you expect Walker to do? When this bill reached his desk, it was almost entirely supported by both Dems and Repubs. Don't let your disdain for the guy who has lowered taxes and increased jobs in the state blur your vision on any single issue, particularly one you know nothing about.
I know of people that have lost 5 - 6 deer a year with these stupid things.
Ground, I know compound shooters (lower numbers of them) would take that 80 yard shot at a deer, but not many of them. Now you get (I believe the majority) a crossbow hunter out there with the thing ready to shoot, a scope, knowing they are advertised as a long range weapon, will take the shot. A bow still needs to be physically drawn and released to make the shot happen.
I hope they shorten the season on them big time, even get them out of the rut. There's a reason we don't have the gun season during the rut, the bucks would get annihilated. People now days have lost there pride of outcome from hard work, and lost there sense of adventure. Our time of Fred Bear, American Sportsman, Howard Hill, etc are fading fast, sad.
Our time of Fred Bear, American Sportsman, Howard Hill, etc are fading fast, sad.
So true!
+1 on ground hunters first post. I have no interest in shooting crossbow and don’t really care what the other guy does. I am in it for my experience in the field which is always enjoyable whether I’m sharing the outdoors with a crossbow hunter or not. Not worth the stress, anger that comes along with worrying about what the next guy is doing. Sure, I admire the guys that get it done with a stick and string at 15 yards more than the guys that opt for crossbow and get it done at 70 but either way they are both still accomplishments.
If this was a conversation about making the pursuit too easy, then we should be talking about doing away with the gun season.
If it were a conversation about recruitment, then with today’s generation, making it easy is seems to be what they are looking for because that is what they are used to in all other walks of life.
If it is a conversation of improving the age structure of the herd, add per side antler restrictions.
Enjoy yourself in the woods!
Wrong? On which count? Taxes, unemployment or the number of legislators who voted for this bill. All can be verified, unless you are like the typical lefty, spewing without basis or fact.
The horn epidemic is the main reason for the crossbow hype. Only worry for people is that they get a mature buck on their wall. Crossbows do not create hunters to take better ethical shots( what they r intended for). It creates more deer to b shot n WOUNDED until EVENTUALLY they get a good hit at 50+ yards. Not good for the herd at all that 4 sure
If u must shoot a deer at 80 yards with an arrow u may want to re-consider where to put ur stand or blind. Why shoot it that far away with arrow when that's why god invented guns????? Wait for a better oppurtunity. Crossbows r used un-ethically to kill deer at far distances but it's not the weapon that's the issue it's the person shooting it that makes it look bad. They do the same thing with vertical bows. Take the crossbows away does no good. They'll just do the same with the vertical. If we only had #s for all the deer that don't get found/die b cuz of long range arrow shot's I believe we would all b n shock. 30 yard maximum with or without a crossbow just do to the fact I want the animal to die quick n that's my comfort zone. Anything farther tends to make for a long day tracking.
I have had my shop for almost 24 years . So I hear a lot of things probably believe maybe 50 pct of what they say . I watch guys shoot bows crossbows etc. and can tell you there's a lot of bow hunters that shouldn't shoot past 15 yards . So a 25 yards shot to them is like a 50 yards shot for a crossbow . Before I built the indoor range and got these guys shooting more then just a couple days before hunting the stories I heard about wounded animals was unreal .After they started shooting winter league and the 6 week league i have right before opener most of these stories went way down . As long as the kill numbers during archery season don't go up because a bunch of gun hunters move to archery I don't see it changing the season . But if 200,000 gun hunters buy archery licenses and the kill go's to 175,000+- then they will have to shorten the seasons .Just what i think . I am around a bunch of hunters and I don,t hear about all these wounded deer . Now bar talk is a different story .
What would we be saying if the kill numbers were exactly the same without cross bows? Would we in the in the bowhunting community be upset? What would we be advocating for; a shorter season, lottery for archery tags? I wonder what the message would be?
"What would we be saying if the kill numbers were exactly the same without cross bows?"
This is hypothetical because the state has data for many, many years on vertical bow kills and that has never happened. But, hypothetically speaking, I do believe many of us would take notice of a potentially dangerous trend, as is happening with the crossbow.
Just think in another 10 years the crossbow guys will get to complain about Airbows or what ever other way they figure to launch a arrow . Look at the new black powder some are capable of 1/2 moa and shooting 600 yards . They have around as much knock down then my 375 H&H .
Old news like C2D said, but a sober review on the inroads made by crossgunners. Crossbow kills overtook vertical back in 2014 in the county I hunt. That's not good in my opinion, but lots here prescribe to the "hunt any method you want as long as its legal." This shortsightedness (IMO) will hurt bow hunters in the long run as discussed plenty on this forum. I wish we could change the direction we're going, but the writing is on the wall I'm afraid.
As a gunsmith I get calls every year to " fix " crossbows that won't shoot or they are too noisy . The 2 to 300 dollar crossbows need alot of tuning. I setup & tuned 6 of them last year . The age group was 19 to 75 .
During the crossbow wars 8 ? Years ago I tested a 10 point on Bowsite . I tuned it . Cleaned up the trigger & mounted a quality BDC scope . I was shooting 5 to 7 inch groups at 100 yards .
As I walked back to the Jeep I thought " We are in trouble if these ever get into our archery season " .
Yep...I know someone who took a shot at a doe 95 yards away. Shooting over the top of her the person laughed. I must say it was hard to not ask why this shot was taken. But no answer would have been good and it would have been an argument in the end. At this point the argument isn't worth it. Ill wait till that arrow ends up in his tractor tire and then laugh. Crossbows are not the answer for everyone. Infact I believe they are disasterous for the hunting community. More wounded deer gives ammunition to animal rights groups.
We're in trouble alright. A commercial running now on the Outdoor Channel about x-gun grouping at 100yrds.
Yes sir. They claim to group at 100 yards right out of the box! And they do, according to YouTube... I agree with most on here, crossbow needs a separate, shorter season. In 50 years we'll only see vertical bows in museums...
Its the future guys get over it. Soon it will be 80% CB and 20% Bow. But keep sending your money to WBH that will fix it;^)
Wyoming is taking a hard look at limiting crossbows due to their increased range and ease of operation. Maybe other states will have the balls to do the same.
"Its the future guys get over it. Soon it will be 80% CB and 20% Bow." I'm sure the lil fella can show us where he got these numbers from but it is not really needed. Upnorth, let me be the first to offer you a great big hug. You are hurting inside and your need for attention shows.
I have been upnorth for many years . I looked at the post and wondered when I wrote it . So all you have to do to have the same handle is use a capital letter from u to U that don't seem wright can make it easy for someone to get the wrong ideas about someone .
Well...guess we have an Upnorth Jim and an upnorth Bob
Upnorth Bob, my apologies for the mix up. Too bad there is another who seems to be looking for trouble that you had to be associated with. You would think the site would not allow a duplication of names.
On another thread, Happy said, "HunterR, you will surely be called names now for dropping Bowsite's know-it-all on his head for attacking the wrong member. That is too funny."
Upnorth, Tweed, Pasq, and others. Apparently Happy feels you too should be "dropped on your heads" for not knowing there were two different Upnorth's. Of course IF he were honest, he would admit he did not know this either, problem is he lacks the integrity and honesty to do so. That is what is really funny.
Guys do not worry about Happy, he is a self proclaimed crossbow enthusiast hanging out on a Bowhunting site.
I think there are some differences between the compound revolution and the crossbow revolution. When compounds came on the scene was a time when overall hunting was growing and in many areas deer herds were on the increase. More land was also available to hunters. This coupled with the facts technology such as computers did not compete with our time, youth sports programs were less intense, rural values were more prevalent and hunting more socially acceptable, meant compounds were able to be a very effective archery and overall hunter recruitment tool. A real positive to hunting, archery and game management.
In the above paragraph, none of this is as true during the crossbow revolution. Crossbows are simply another advancement in making killing easy. Crossbows are not a recruitment tool other than moving more hunters from other seasons and into the general archery seasons. No net hunter recruitment, in fact culturally ended bowhunting in the mind of some supportive voters who believed bowhunters hunted the hard way.
Here's my take on this...bowhunting is a physical sport and chances are pretty good your great grandma won't cut the mustard or your four year old either. Some times adjustments need to be made to be able to bowhunt. I really think that "my shoulder is a little stiff in the morning" really doesn't cut it. Selling that many of the shoulder fired, scope sighted weapons that shoot bolts (not arrows) sure made someone a LOT of cash. Just like chasing crooks-follow the money. If you view deer as groceries on the hoof think about how much money gets spent on chasing them...sure could buy a lot of beef. Am I the only one that has lost some hunting because "Uncle Charlie got a crossbow and wants to hunt back there". If you haven't brace yourself...and I am glad I own some land that I can use and I will not allow x things there....Again-my $.02-LC
Lame you are correct. I have hunted with a group of guys for years. On public mostly and their private land a few times during the season.
Out of those 6 guys, all but two are using a shouldered weapon now with one being myself. Three years ago none were using them and 4 had the ability based on age but shot compound.
I just bought a quarter side of beef that cost me 485 dollars prepared. I don't spend that on deer hunting every year but again I don't hunt lots of places anymore.
It was all about the money with introduction of that weapon. That's my .02
why do you care, what someone uses for a weapon, and you get your pants in a twist..... The compound is a wonderful bow, but its only 50 years old.... the cross bow has been around since the 6th century, and still, the last time I checked, shoots one arrow,,,, yes it is an arrow, at least that is what I think is on my fletcher......
I have had to temporarily use one,,,, to me , its a pain in the a.. and will be glad to go back to my recurve,,,,,,,,,, all the compound shooters are so upset about this,,,,,
The truth is, they are upset, because it causes more people in the woods, its that simple,,,,,,
If and when the statistics go off the charts, adjustments can be made, according to what Wisconsin set up,,,, but if you take the time to look at the total harvest for the last 10 years, not much difference......
For the record, I think all scopes should be off all muzzle loaders, except for those 65 and over,,,,, if you have a tough time without one, shoot closer,,,,, I think cross bows should be limited as the lesser weapon rule, and I think compounds should not be allowed during the rut, what do you think about that???????????
My pants are NOT in a twist as you so eloquently stated...I would not be happy if someone used a .270 during the fall season-how about that!! If they want to take the compound off the table during the rut-so be it. My opinions are formed because, like you , I thought I had to use one in 2002 when I was limited. Used the weapon, shot a buck with a bolt at 8 yards and decided that I might as well have used a shotgun. I still think that it is all about the money...Guess I will never embrace the shoulder fired, scope sighted weapon that shoots bolts. We can agree to disagree on this one.
A shoulder fired weapon looking through a scope is simply not archery in my opinion. Drawing back a bow by pulling is. Now if needed by injury or elderly is ok. I wish Wi would adapt all of Iowa's regulations and charge the same for non res licence.
"The truth is, they are upset, because it causes more people in the woods, its that simple,,,,,,"
That for sure is some of it. But really what's wrong with some of us not wanting more people in the woods? We don't need every jackwagon that can pick up a crossbow stomping around the woods. If able bodied men and women are choosing crossbows they are already cutting corners and taking the easy way. IMO that's not the kind of "hunters" I want to be sharing the woods with.
Is there a significant portion of xbow users that shoot without a scope?
Tweed. I have seen only 2 people that didn't have scopes on their crossbows. They both had to use a pin system to hunt out of state where scopes are not allowed on crossbows.
Rut, Choosing a 85-90% let off compound over a stick bow is also taking the easy way out. Explain to me how compound users aren't taking the easy way out, but crossbow hunters are?
The difference is very easy to see for anyone who has shot both. One requires a drawing and holding action, the other only requires a trigger be pulled. Not rocket science.
Rut doesnt like able bodied people taking the easy way out with crossbows. Compound users are also taking the easy way out instead of using a stickbow. If we dont want people taking the easy way out, why arent we angry with compound users? Whats a bigger advantage? Crossbow over compound, or compound over stickbow? Not rocket science....
Interesting discussions, the take away is this. What is very obvious is that many, if not most of the posters on this forum, and maybe even Bowsite, are now really crossbow hunters. Some openly, and many others who are not yet ready to come out of the closet. They like to say their friends use them but they do not, ya right! The Op posted a good article, which pretty much sums it.
"Whats a bigger advantage? Crossbow over compound, or compound over stickbow? Not rocket science...."
You are correct, no rocket science. Pulling a trigger is much easier. Do you really hunt or are you some sort of an anti type troll?
Yeah, I love to hunt. I shoot a recurve. If your not familiar, they have no let off, no sights, no release trigger..... How bout your equipment Capt Mike? Are you taking the easy way out?
I hunt a bit. Use all different weapons, depending on the season. Still have and occasionally use a couple of my early Bear recurves. The ones I killed my first rabbit, pheasant, deer and squirrel with. Speaking of squirrels, you figure out the difference between a crossbow and a vertical bow yet?
Just went to AT and they have a separate thing for crossbowers. This site has the "Leatherwall". Is it time for the crossbowers to have their own??
I could shoot a paper plate sized group at 20 yards the first day I bought my compound. It took me a couple months to achieve that with my recurve. Not suggesting this is accurate enough to hunt, just a size reference. I limited my distance to 15 yards this year with my recurve because after a whole summer of shooting I had more errant arrows than I was comfortable with to shoot at an animal at 20 yards.
The sole reason I got into bow hunting was to get away from the jackassery that was public land deer hunting at the time in the northwoods. Bow hunting allowed me to do this. For me, one of the greatest parts of bow hunting is chasing game while they are not pressured and having natural behavior, not running scared because of the invasion of the orange army. The more hunters you invite to the woods the less likely this becomes. So call it selfish, but I think many people prefer to hunt low pressure deer and would prefer to keep it that way vs sharing it with with those who can't even find the extremely scant amount of time it takes to become proficient with a compound.
I watched a 10 girl shoot an X on an NFAA spot target at 30 yards with her very first first shot with a crossbow. It was the first time she had ever shot anything.
Yes, shooting a compound proficiently is easier than shooting a recurve or long bow but it takes no skill whatsoever to shoot a crossbow. Beyond that you don't have to draw a crossbow and hold it while waiting for the right shot.
Anyone that thinks the advantage of a crossbow is equal to the advantage of a compound over traditional equipment is delusional.
Delusional is right skook. Amazing all the phrases guys use to justify their crossbow addiction. The best is " my friends use them, but I do not ". LOL like Brutus on the old Popeye cartoon.
A crossbow is obviously easier, but let's not make shooting a compound seem like it's hard. Both are on the easy scale if you are looking at the 20 ish yard range. Now if you are comparing 40 yard shots the advantage clearly goes to the crossbow, plus it can be shot off a rest making it infinitely easier at the longer ranges. When compared as short range weapons, which archery hunting should be, both are pretty easy. Have a friend that uses a crossbow and they are heavy, or were several years ago the last time I shot it.
Yeah, I know the difference between a compound and a crossbow. About 10% letoff... LOL!
Delusional is carrying around a 85-90% letoff compound and then walking around pouting and kicking furniture because it went to a 100% let off. What did you think was coming after 90% let off? LOL!
"Both are on the easy scale if you are looking at the 20 ish yard range." Mostly agree, however there is a big difference in remaining stationary, putting the crosshairs on the animal and pulling the trigger, as compared to having to draw a vertical bow. Those who argue otherwise are merely attempting to justify in their mind, something they know is inherently wrong.
Movement is movement. If you are in an enclosed blind it probably doesn't much matter. If you are in a tree it's a crap shoot. A deer on alert will likely bust either hunter and calm deer are not that difficult to draw on. I have never been busted during the draw, but have never drawn on an spooked deer either. The deer I shot this year, I drew at 5 yards and shot him at 4 and that was after he stared at me for 10 seconds at 3 yards. From the ground both hunters have a challenge to not get seen if at eye level, but I agree the crossbow hunter has a slight advantage.
You have to raise the crossbow just like you have to raise the bow. Both require movement. But lets give credit to the compound shooter, hes probably holding back about 6 pounds of draw weight or so, versus nothing for the crossbow hunter....:>)
All of you take the easy way IMHO.
I use an atlatl and sometimes I'm too close for that to work so I just jump on their backs and use a melon sized rock.
retro, if a compound with high letoff is so easy. Why is it not the weapon of choice for the elderly and disabled?
I would suspect alot of people in those groups dont have the necessary range of motion in their shoulders to use a compound. If your shoulder is destroyed, its your only option. But for perfectly capable individuals the difference between 85-90% let off and 100% let off is small. I just saw on the main forum that a high profile compound shooter just shot a sheep at 88 yards. Many were praising him for it. If somebody came on here and told you they shot a deer at 88 yards with a crossbow, you would get lynched. LOL! I hate what technology has done to the sport of bowhunting, but if you wanted to stop crossbows, the line in the sand should have been drawn a long time ago before we had 90% let off compounds. You cant make much of an argument anymore. The whole sport has turned into a s$#% show. Its pretty sad.....
Shoulder fired, aim with a scope, release a bolt= crossgun. Pulling back a string and releasing an arrow= bow. Bowhunting should include archery only, not crossgunning or whatever they call it.
"I would suspect alot of people in those groups dont have the necessary range of motion in their shoulders to use a compound." Retro-that option was therefor those BEFORE full inclusion..
The only reason people are switching to crossbows is for the increased range. We have all had a nice deer that we would have loved to get a shot at, but it was just out of range. This left us with a few options, become a better hunter and figure out how to out smart the deer and get closer next time, or spend a bunch of money and gain zero skill and knowledge. We all know which option many people have chosen. This is one of the largest factors effecting hunting right now, people want something that shouldn't be easy, to he easy. Since younger kids can now take up hunting, crossbows will be the weapon of choice for youth and not because of laziness but because of strength limitations. Many will probably never become archers. It is becoming a $#@%show, but sadly this apple is softening from the inside out and not from all the outside influences as many would like to believe.
LC, I realize that. Rutnstrut asked me a question.
"Shoulder fired, aim with a scope, release a bolt= crossgun. Pulling back a string and releasing an arrow= bow."
Ding, ding, ding! Most of us get it. A couple of the dense ones, not so much.
Inmyelement is right on the money, no denying it.
A lot of them go to them because they can out later . Most have trouble seeing through there peep before the end of legal hunting time . But with a scope they can stay there much longer especially those that get pictures at or just past legal shooting hours . Almost any scope that comes with a crossbow is good enough to use to closing . But I get guys that upgrade there scopes because they want to see better later . This is not all of them but some , it varies year to year . But most of them will say they don,t have time to practice because of there kids being in sports .
I get a huge kick out of the guys that say they don't have time to practice. But you see a lot of these same guys playing golf all summer, sitting in the bar, playing softball, shooting trap, etc. I would bet if the majority of these no time to practice guys, made it a priority. They would have plenty of time. Even when I was working 80 plus hours a week with 3 young kids at home. I was into softball and various motorsports and still shot at least twice a week.
Just like the guys that don't have time to go register a deer .
Isnt the excuse "I dont have time to practice" also the reason people choose the compound over the stickbow? Somebody mentioned above that the reason people are choosing the crossbow was to extend their range. Same thing can be said for people choosing a compound over a stick bow. Fiber optic pins, drop away rests, releases, stabilizers, baiting, food plots, heated condo stands, game cameras, and the list goes on. All things used to make it "easier". This "making it easier" has been going on a long time. Shouldnt we be mad at more people than just the crossbow hunter?
The reason is because a crossgun is a totally different weapon than a hand drawn bow. The reason xguns are popular is because there is nothing physical about shooting at an animal. Its look through the scope and pull the trigger. Any bow you have to pull back is archery, xguns not so much.
You guys are getting it right.
Yes MO, most are. Then there are the trolls...
No trolls. But there is one immature little $%#@* that throws a tantrum every time theres an opposing opinion to his.....LOL!
Yea, but he has not been around much lately, which makes me Happy.
