Really MASS?
Massachusetts
maybe if we all live in little bubbles no one will piss anyone else off
Im totally cool with this. My poor daughter was knocked down by an off leash exuberant lab in lsf, and it changed her view of dogs. Many times trail running or mountain biking ive had off leash dogs aggressively charge me. Really annoying. In this case hunting activities can be off leash the whole time... seems reasonable.
Fine with it too. We would leash our dogs on the trails no matter what. For the people with calm dogs who are used to being around children it's a little restricting. I have 2 very calm dogs that have grown up around children and when we would meet other people on the trails it was not a problem. i have had more than my share of other people's dogs who were not leashed, and they have come up rather quickly on us and put the fright into my little 6 yr old daughter or ran up quickly to our dogs and that can make for problems. As far as I know there is a public leash law in MA. I do not know if it is town bylaw or statewide though.
I see your points but I do think this sucks. It is hard enough finding a place to run your dog off leash as it is. WMAs were some of the few places left where you could really exercise your dog. Walking an athletic dog on leash is not fair to the dog. It doesn't cut it. I run my dog for 2 hours off leash and he still has energy. For people that want to bike, hike, run, whatever, there are a lot more places (that have leash laws) for you guys to do this than places where you can actually run your dog off leash. Theres no reason both parties cant meet in the middle on this. Bikers, hikers, etc already have numerous places to do their activities without worrying about off leash dogs. Dog people do not have many places at all to run their dogs off leash. This really sucks for people with dogs. Where else do we go now? Do you just not own a dog because you cant find anywhere to run them off leash? That's not fair at all.
Just another reason to live in NH I guess. People just seem to get it here. You go hiking and for the most part, people that have psycho dogs keep them on a leash. Those that don't, keep them off leash. Its the owners discretion. It really just boils down to if the owner of the crazy dog wants to be an a$$hole or not. And for the vast majority, they aren't and it works out just fine.
Agree with ther NH comment but...............things are changing up there as well. In the past 5 years it amazing how much land become posted.............
This is a tough one. My anarchist bent says let em run. But I've run into some nasty dogs with jackass owners. Just one more reason to live in the Berkshires. Enough room to avoid this kind of BS. Tekoa
I guess it depends where you are. I stick to my area for the most part which is the west side of rt. 3/Merrimack river. I cant believe how much land isn't posted. Every spot I find on a map that I go to scout is open. From what I hear, south and east of Manchester is different though like youre saying.
Okay, this one is gonna be a long one.
Easy answer to this issue. People just need to be responsible and respectful of each other and the environment they are in and there are no problems. There will always be a mishap, no matter what we are ever talking about, but if people follow this general rule, it is almost all good. Here is the problem; most people suck.
I have a dog. I worked tirelessly to train her to be comfortable around people and other animals. I started dragging her into the woods at 8 weeks. Shortly thereafter, I would drag her through crowds of people (at a ski resort). I do these things every week, for the past six years. She is very timid (to a fault), and lives to hike and mountain bike. She is almost always off leash (not while walking in crowded public places). However, I always have a leash with me or some other way to secure her. She ignores other dogs on the trail (because she thinks she is a human) and leaves people alone. I cannot leash her when biking and she and I have done hikes in NH and Maine (4,000 footers) that would be dangerous for her and me if she were leashed. If say "stay", she stops. If people are coming toward her on a narrow trail (like parts of the AT), she stops and moves to the side so they can pass. When I am on the bike, she will never stop to play with another dog or visit a person. She just wants to go. If I sense someone is nervous of dogs, I leash her until we pass.
I keep her out of the woods on Saturdays during hunting season. However, whenever we are in the woods during hunting season, even Sundays (poachers), she has hunter orange on and a bell. I tend to keep her in places that have mostly walkers, not hunters.
If she shits in a trafficked area, I pick it up. I always have bags with me. I am also one of the guys that picks up things like beer cans and carry them out because I don't need a couple of assholes screwing it all up for the rest of us.
Now, let's talk about the dog people I encounter. Every dog I encountered when hiking any of the mountains in NH and ME were off leash. They were also the best dogs ever. Why? because I can guarantee that the dog is part of the family and it goes everywhere with their owners. Just like my dog Roxy, all they want to do is hike and be with their owners. See another dog... what dog. They just keep moving forward.
Then there are the dog people in the towns where I live and walk the trails like in Northborough (Pisgah). Woman with psycho boxer. "Oh she is not friendly". Well put it on a fucking leash before I shoot it lady. Or my favorite, the 15 pound yippie dogs that want to tear my dog apart. Thes little shits are off leash all the time. The owners are all the same. "He/she doesn't like other dogs". My dog tries to get away, ignores them, etc. until she feels cornered. Oh, Roxy weighs 80lbs. She will get frustrated at some point. I tell the owners, "you need to get your dog away from her because she will get pissed at some point and eat you dog". For some reason, they think their dog's behavior is appropriate or funny.
These folks ruin it for the rest of us. I go out of my way now to hike obscure areas whenever possible. We actually turned it into scouting during the Spring and Summer months. She loves going off trail and can smell a deer a 1/4 mile away.
I can see both sides of this. Again, if people were just responsible and respectful to one another, this, and everything else, would just not be an issue.
This punishes the responsible people just to cover the state's ass if an off leash dog bites someone. god forbid people use common sense and respect each other. No we need the state to step in. Worst part is the stupid owners who can't control their dogs will still be an issue. Lets just say this puts a bee in my libertarian bonnet! Same as paying $150 a year for my second amendment rights... SMFH
Regrettably, Peter summed up an important component: "most people suck".
Hate that I don't totally disagree with that. Because I do think most people are inherently good. But there is to much "I, ME" thinking. Couldnt say the number of times a dog owner has said to me: "Dont worry, she/he is good with people" only to have the dog lunge at me growling when I walked by or biked by or ran by or whatever. People just get into their own little worlds and forget to consider the bigger picture.
If everyone treated their pets like Peter describes, bigwoods and others here seem to have a similar approach, that's a different deal. There's respect for other users. So many people just dont give a hoot.
Some people own dogs to say they have a dog. Some people own dogs and they become part of the family. That's the difference.
You guys got it right. Most people just don't care, and those people ruin it for everyone else that has done all the work to make their dogs "good dogs". Like anything else in life I guess.
I have a lab and a labradoodle that I take in the woods a lot. Once I grab their orange collars from the drawer they know where they’re going! Lol The totally love it and if I walk 2 or 3 miles they’ve probably run back and forth twice that. I have a small yard so they need a place to run. That being said, I pick up their poop and always have their leashes with me and will leash them if I see people coming which is not often on the back trails I usually am on. As previously mentioned there are too many dog owners who just don’t get it. Now I just need to get them to stop eating every pile of deer shit they find. It’s pretty gross when the puke it back up all over my truck. They love the couch when we’re done. Lol
Gorgeous dogs JCIII! Dogs, Guns, More Trespassing signs... Etc... all things folks who seem unwilling to "Adult" have made hard for the rest of us.
Thanks and I totally agree with what you just said.
I just hate going to bass pro and stepping in Dog shit. Some people cant leave the dog at home.
PeterK1234 is spot on. One of my best friends has a dog that he leashes everywhere because he gets excited. When my buddy says stay, the dog stays. He knows his dog gets jumpy, so he makes sure there aren't any issues and uses the leash. I have come across very calm and friendly dogs. No issues. I have a couple that love to jog the trails I hunt on public land. They have a dog and it is off leash most of the time. This dogs doesn't like animals or humans. They warned me. I warned them that if it lunges at me, it gets field dressed in front of them. I love dogs and the only reason I don't have 1 is because my son is scared. We are working on fixing that so we can get a dog. This 1 dog on public scared off 3 deer my other buddy was about to shoot in 2016. He was ready to shoot the dog. He has 3 dogs. His dogs are friendly but you need to move slowly. They are big and strong. So if you move fast, they can attack. They are pitbulls. I start to pat the girl and the rest fall in line. Then she is my friend and the others play with me. We see the couple with that angry dog every time we go in the woods. 1 time this year, the husband had the dog on a leash. He saw us regularly so he leashed it. Especially during shotgun. We would say hello and be nice, but he knows I meant it when I said his dog better stay back. Important bote, it almost bit my nuts off when it came rushing up on my while still hunting one time. Thanks, I feel better that I got that out. This leash issue is the same as hunting and guns. The few idiots ruin it for the rest of the good people.
K9 Mickey !
K9 Mickey !
This is a 4 bladed broadhead for me. At 1st I thought FU MassWildlife. Will, thank you for the common sense approach about the dogs that are out of control. I started out training dogs as a bird boy for a professional trainer on the AKC and NAHRA circuit for Labradors when I was 16. I saw how important it was for obedience. 20 yrs later, my wife and I were accepted to foster family MSP K9 puppies. When my wife became pregnant with our son, we went from "Apprehension K9s" to "Searching K9s " . I go berserk when I'm hunting and we heal our dogs and the other person says that there dog should be OK with mine. Call your F-ing dog away from mine ! Will, you changed my mind on this, leash your dog ! As for picking up the dogs pooh, yea, not gonna happen. Next, why is MassWildlife listening and acting on this so fast when we have been banging down the doors for Sunday hunting for so many yrs. Lastly, beware of the sponsor of this bill, Mass Audobon. We are screwed, 10-20 people complain about loose dogs and we have new regulations. 20,000 plus at a minimum want Sunday hunting and we go unheard, think about it please !!!!! Sorry about the rant also.
Kid, come the day in time when I or any human I know has to move slowly around a dog or set the pecking order by being nice to a dog. Prestone burger treats for those that need to calm down. No disrespect to anyone, they are all dogs 1st and foremost and serve a purpose in one way or another. No child should ever fear a domestic dog, ever. Respect them yes, never fear !
Xi, your point about Audobon is interesting. about 5 years ago now, DCR went NUTS over trails that, mostly, have been in Rutland State Forest since I was in high school - and earlier. So 25+ years (ouch). They came at the New England Mountain Bike Association gangbusters, hung trail cam's which they have used to "sleuth" their way to riders using the trails and fining them 50 bucks. They patrol like crazy. Now, bear in mind, the DCR's own documentation notes that mtb's are not more trouble environmentally then most other activities. The trails the DCR confronted us with at various meetings - which were attended by many user groups now blocked - like snow mobilers and horse back riders - were trails which had been in existence for decades, yet they are going on the "word" from a few people that these are new trails. It's literally gotten national press in the trail advocacy world for how negative it's all been - thankfully DCR has a new leader and god willing they will be more open minded.
Why note all that... Because as they felt more and more pressure from folks at DCR, I've noticed MDFW has put out some pressers and what not noting limits on trail usage on their land etc. Sucks, but the point is that these groups connect... and we sure as heck want MDFW open to Audobon, but with a bit bigger ears for "us"! We DO NOT want a Rutland State Forest scenario to occur on hunters and fishermen. That is frustrating.
Sorry for the tirade, the RSF thing may piss me off more than solar farm discussions :)
Will, do something( MA EPOs and MassWildlife) about the unlawful ATV and UTV use on WMAs. I'm sick of hearing were under staffed. You Easties are screwed first. Pissed me off about the dog pooh thing, that's nothing but harassing a hunter. Get some sleep, your singing tenor at Church on Sunday !
Did someone say solar farms ? Kidding.
Dog thing is simple . A Dog growls at me and gets a hurtin' ... Bites me and gets a deadn' .
I fail to see how further legislation prevents pit bulls and bad owners from being an issue. Dipshits break the law everyday as anyone "missing" a trail cam, tree stand, or truck window can attest. Issues with problem dogs (HUMANS) will still exist. And don't tell me that under the current laws, an enforcement officer would turn a blind eye or have his hands tied to do nothing to a dog attacking people or other dogs, public land or not. So the only outcome of further legislation is that good dogs and responsible people get punished.
Tangental Rant: My brother in law just bought a Boerboel aka South African Mastiff... If your unfamiliar with the breed, imagining a 150 - 170 lb pit will get you close. When the breeds wiki page includes the lines "It is not unusual for this breed to display aggression toward other dogs or strangers" and "will not hesitate to defend their loved ones to the death" ... YEEAAA, you're announcing the size of your manhood and your brain to anyone who cares to notice.
oh also this gem: "it is the owner's responsibility to keep the dog safe, properly controlled and supervised in public, or when around children or people it is not familiar with. It is also important to note that the boerboel was bred to tackle large animals like lions and baboons, so strict training should be incorporated to avoid aggression "
My understanding is that this will not be an issue on pheasant-stocked 'hunting' EWMA's, but F&W also owns some small properties that are really just glorified dog-walking areas. Too small, too close to houses etc. Leashed dogs there makes sense.
Personally I'm more concerned about talk of legalizing crossbows for all hunters.
