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Set Up for Heavy Game

Here's a great write up about a hog hunt near Escanaba.

http://ronkulas.proboards.com/thread/405/russian-boar-bow-arrow

With so much emphasis on light and fast arrows it's a good reminder about the importance of kinetic energy. This was a 691 grain arrow going "only" 221 feet per second.

Forgot the link..

And I believe this knife has been around.

I have to agree , although light and fast arrows can reach way out their with good accuracy you loose a lot of penetration , although they work great on regular game but you run into trouble once you go for big game with thick skin and overlapping ribcage . We always try to use anything north of 90 ft-lbs kinetic energy on buffalo and giraffe

I have to agree , although light and fast arrows can reach way out their with good accuracy you loose a lot of penetration , although they work great on regular game but you run into trouble once you go for big game with thick skin and overlapping ribcage . We always try to use anything north of 90 ft-lbs kinetic energy on buffalo and giraffe

Yeah that's a great blog,,,, if I did not have rehab, he asked me, to go with him, as I have been there before,,,,,,,,,,,,I told him he would have a lot of fun, and its a great place,,,,, when you have snow, you can get on them pigs, they trail, very well in the deep snow, so you can set up on them..................................Without snow, they are tough, and they have great noses................................. I agree with a heavy set up for them, and I chased them for 3 days with my recurve,,,,,,,,

shot placement on a pig is critical,,,,, they are tough animals,,,,,, I would use that Woodsman any day, over a single bevel head,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

That knife looks exactly like the one I have that was my grandfathers. He died in '54 and probably had it for a long time before that.

I killed this Russian a few years ago. They are tough animals.

I was shooting a Mathews rival pro at 70 # with Easton ACC arrows tipped with Magnus stingers. My arrow weight was right at 460 grains. I don't know my fps but it was no speed bow.

My 15 yard shot was perfect, but with their extra cartilaginous armor around their vitals i did not get a pass through to the other side. The Russian only went 30 yards and tipped over.

That knife looks identical to my Colorado Elk. Oh yeah, its the same knife.

The infatuation continues. Just let it go already.

I have one guy that "s killed multiple animals in Africa I think up to 800 # also elk and moose here . Another that killed a 8 foot coastal grizzly they both shoot 70# with under a 375 grain arrow . The guy that killed the grizzly had lost 2 in the previous years. He had been told that he had to have a 80#+ bow and 500 grain+ arrows he's around 5 1/2 foot tall . He asked me what the problem was . I asked him to bring his set up in so i could watch him shoot . The problem was he was over bowed , when we reduced everything he could hold longer and became more accurate . But he was hesitant on the arrows . Before he went for the bear he killed a mountain lion , a Alaskan goat , and a 300 # pig with the set up I have the pictures in the shop. At bear camp he said he said Randy Elmer was there and asked him about his current set up . Said should be no problem if tuned correctly . All his equipment was tuned and his arrows were tuned on my hooter shooter . Not even going to tell you where he hit the bear and what the arrow did because most wont believe it , but it was a 1 shot kill and the bear only went 30 yards . Like the doctor that did all the arrow tests in Africa said a 200 grain arrow difference is the equivalent of a nat on a elephants butt . Not saying anythings wrong with shooting heavier arrows but lighter arrows to a point will do the job if put in the right place . This year I am dropping my shooting poundage twenty years ago I went from 84 lbs and a 475 grain arrow to 71# and a 370 grain arrow to this year 60/62# with a 320 grain arrow to keep my speed up . But like what I have said before should what you want .At my shop I will set them up any way you want light or heavy makes no difference to me what you want unless you ask what I shoot .

In 55 years of archery I started with fat wooden arrows & now use super slims with 100 gr Slick Tricks .

Speed kills when it come to archery . My 395 gr setup with a 65 lb had a pass thru on a mature Elk at 45 yards .

The same arrow with a 55 lb had a pass thru on a mature Elk at 36 yards .

All those years of shooting has convinced me that skinny arrows do penatrate deeper . All things being equal . Thats fact . To me speed is more important that wt .

With the compound, I shoot a FMJ's 5mm 4 fletch fusion vanes, QAD drop away, and a 125 grain head,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I shot razor caps on pigs, blew right threw em,,,,,, I would have as much faith in the 125 Wasp sst or the Magnus I got for Christmas,,,, my total arrow weight is 506, for a 55lb bow,,,,,,,,,

I don't know what my set up is today, but when I was hunting for big bears I shot 75#'s with Gold Tip shafts and a 125 grain Hellrazor. The biggest bear broke a 550 lb scale and had a skull of 21 1/8" The arrow weighed 503 grains on my scale. Punched right through the bear at 15 yards. If I recall he went right around 50 steps before piling up.

The pigs I have shot were with 55# Bear recurve heavy fiberglass shafts and Bodkin or Bear broadheads. Tough animals, but with good shot placement didn't have to worry.

I still lean toward the heavy side, I like to punch through animals. I am now working on an Elk setup with my Matthews HTR.

From what we tested its more about the broadhead then the arrow weight . This has nothing to do with what happens on a animal . I have a customer that is a retired Chicago fireman . They had to were bullet proof vest where he worked , so every fuel years they had to replace them and they kept the old one . So we started shooting different heads at them . there wasn't one chisel type head that would even go through one panel . had them bend some twisted some exploded when they hit it . This was shooting at it at 340 fps . My Bowtech guy told me to try the Crimson Croc . It went through both sides of the vest (vest was free hanging in front of the bag not against it ) and 6 inches into the bag target behind it .Problem with the head is its hard to get it to group at those speeds . We have shot a lot of different things in my range from ballistic gel to patio blocks we get bored every once in a while .

upnorth, did you try any cut on contact trad type heads on them?

Momentum = MV KE = 1/2MV^2 Increasing velocity does more for KE. Which is more important to penetration? Both decline linerally with less Mass. At least with faster stuff your tradjectory is flatter and you are less likely to have arrow drop issue given your distance estimate, not to mention staying on a moving target. I use camohunter superlites & 100 gr tips, perfectly tuned for FOC and to beat the bare shaft planing test. Likie it said on the 140 MPH speedometer of my Charger, speed kills.

I would shoot my wasp boss into that any day of the week,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

That's what a Croc is .

Yep speed kills, thats why I get passthrus on elk, caribou and deer with my super fast 175fps longbow.

Ruger, People kill elk every year with 45 lb recurves. If speed kills, how are trad hunters doing it? Your conclusion after 55 years is wrong. You got sucked into the marketing ploys of high tech archery....

Kinetic Energy is a combination of TOTAL arrow weight and speed. There are diminished points of return for both points. Speed alone does not generate into penetration killing power. For some reason on cannot click on any link on this site...so I couldn`t read the Boar article. But using his data his KE is 74.95. Now if you`re trying to drive your arrow through a boar shield you would need this KE but you should shoot to miss the shield and you could get by with less.

As the African PH said for dangerous or extremely thick hides you MUST have the KE to kill the animal humanly. Elk are not hard animals to kill and only require 40 ft lbs and UP....65 ft lbs and up for Grizz...Buffalo and Moose etc.

Anyone want to know their set up give me your speed and total arrow weight and I will give it to you.

Up your weight and KE goes up , up your speed and the KE goes up exponential but what should also be kept in mind is the spine of your arrow , doesn't help shooting 340 ft/s with an arrow that will not punch trough , we have had women shoot and kill cape buff with 70lbs and 600gr arrow then we have also had guys shooting 750+ arrow weight on 80 lbs and wounded buffalo so it goes about more than just one aspect when it comes to hunting these animals with a bow

What is the avarage grains you guys shoot with the longbows ?

My elk arrows are 540gr. There are guys that kill elk with selfbows and stone points. My guess is not many get to 40 ft lb. I know I dont, but Im not hunting cape buff either.

KE is the energy at a moment in time. Momentum is the ability to resist change. Both are needed. Momentum becomes more important for penetration on larger animals. Lots of other variables, round and round we go.

Huh, I hadn't heard of them. Wicked looking head. I've been shooting Zwicky's, so I havn't looked at any other heads in awhile.

FPS Times FPS times x arrow weight in grains divided by 450240 gives you KE

upnorth,...yes, right on! Which brings up the question, "How much KE (foot pounds do we need for a whitetail?" I have always believed 50 foot pounds was enough for whitetails and for many, many years have set my tackle up to reach that goal. Lately I have heard of folks successfully hunting whitetails with far less; for example,...a 30# longbow with a 425 grain arrow (two-blade cut on contact broadhead). In this example the gal killed a doe and the arrow penetrated both lungs. I do not know the KE of that set-up but I cannot imagine it was anywhere near to 50 foot pounds.

I'm curious as to the thoughts of others on this. What is your KE?

From what I know 30 for a pass through 30 on deer and 60 on elk ,depending on where you hit them . I have a customer who's daughter killed here first deer at 8 years old with a 24 inch draw bow shooting 24 lbs . It was a spike and only went 15 yards . He hit a 8 pointer in the shoulder with a 70 lb bow and expandable and said it bounced off . like i said it all depends on where you hit them and the broad head .

General rule of thumb....25 ft lbs. minimum for deer...pronghorn 40 ft lbs. minimum for elk...black bear...caribou 65 ft lbs. minimum for grizzly....moose buffalo 80 ft lbs. minimum for cape buffalo etc. Most people shoot for the high end of these numbers.

50 foot lbs with a dull, nicked 3 blade vs 40 foot lbs with razor sharp 2 blade?

Dude....really??? If you go in the field with a "dull nicked 3 blade" you shouldn`t be on this site.

You missed the point of the question Franklin...

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