Mass 6 pt. Minimum?
Massachusetts
Would you support antler restrictions?
How about 3 on one side. Reasonable.
I'd be fine with it. But I am not convinced MA wants to improve the hunter experience or the quality of our bucks. They are looking to reach certain population goals, more in western MA and less in eastern MA, but don't necessarily care about hunters having a better chance at killing quality bucks. Just my opinion.
On the western end I would say one with restrictions and one without.
Many states do that, spike. Georgia allows two bucks, one 4pts on a side. I like the restrictions. In Pennsylvania it has helped harvest size of bucks a lot. Massachusetts deer size has been growing over the recent years without it, so it might not be as necessary here. PA was very "if it's brown, it's down" before, so a LOT of young bucks died every year. Now they live, and hunters need to increase their skill to be successful. Win, win situation.
Yup I be for it but it would never happen. Getting rid of one buck tag would be a start and they won't cave on that.
We have antler restrictions in Texas. Legal buck is 13" inside spread or one unbranched antler. I only hunt public land down here and at first I was really frustrated by ARs because it was hard enough to have an opportunity at a deer already. After several years though I noticed two things: 1) The population seemed to go up, as I had more sightings in from the same stand, and 2) I was seeing bigger bucks. There are growing pains associated with the process, but now rather than being flat out against them, I am only against them when a skipper shows up :)
PS 13" is a very challenging rule to ensure compliance with. It supposedly correlates with being able to see daylight between the inside of the main beam and the tips of the ears in alert position. You can't climb down and ask the deer to take a quick measure before you shoot so there is a huge pucker factor, especially considering that screwing up will cost you a couple grand minimum (yup). Passed on several deer due to uncertainty. The ones I've shot I bleated at first so I could get a look at them head-on before the shot. Silly Texas.
Yes. something like one antler with 4 points or better or a 6 point min. with both showing.
Or a one Buck rule at 6 or better. Perhaps, Every other year.
Maybe a mandatory photo with electronic Submission . Some kind of accountability .
Maybe we should trap some of the the deer from the Eastern side of the state and do a stocking program on the western side of the state might even out the population in those zones
Mass will never change anything
Cap'n . We just need to plant deer seeds right ?
I have a hard time grasping why the ( Low -Deer population) problem exists in Western Ma . Is it too much woods and not enough edge/fields or folks with rifles for a 100 years ?
There is zero chance this would ever happen since Mass just wants all the deer gone but I would fully support it if they did start doing APRs.
In dreamy land, I'm cool with this. Say a 3pt min on one side or 4pt min. I actually like the 3pt min. Has nothing to do with deer maturity for me. It just forces people to have to ID what they are shooting a little more during gun season (during pushes in particular) which in theory should create more deer overall.
Figure, you are sitting at the end of a drive, a group of deer come trotting past at 45-60yds. A lot easier to start shooting at them with a antlerless tag, if you dont have to verify what a buck may have up there.
(This may sound like I'm bashing gun guys. I'm not. I just get frustrated in low density areas when drives happen which lead to entire family groups getting whacked in one spot (say a doe and two skips etc. This seems like it would work).
No. Well I say No tentatively not knowing fully the end game. Would it be so everyone has a chance at a 130" class deer? Then No. Do we not discuss this every post season then the following meat pole thread is populated with some really great bucks.? Some giants. Is it for a reason like Will stated? Then Maybe. I think the heritage surrounding deer hunting in New England is founded on meat hunting. I would rather have healthy herd #s, putting meat in the freezer and if I want to trophy hunt go to a trophy state or personally challenge myself more. I would like to help our Western part of the state brothers with their herd #s but I don't know the answer to that.
How about we make driving illegal. That would solve a ton of issues right there.
No. Where I hunt in Western Mass we already have excellent age structure and I believe a good buck to doe ratio. Trail cams prove this and there is no need for antler restrictions. I've been lucky to kill some nice bucks in Western Mass but in the end I really just love to hunt and eat deer, any deer. What it has for headgear doesn't matter that much. If a deer is legal it is likely to end up in my freezer.
BUT......I would support antler restrictions if and only if the purpose was to re-establish a more natural herd balance. The timing and cycling of the rut is better for the deer and for the hunters. It just makes the fall woods a more fun place to be. As stated there is no need in Western Mass and I do not agree with limiting a hunters choice. Especially newer hunters who need to get a few deer under their belt. Tekoa
Western Mass deer density is low due to mature habitat and little to no agriculture. No secrets there. You will not see deer on most sits, just the way it is and I do not see it changing. Overall the population is what you would expect in big mature woods. There are pockets that are better. Most of the hardcore hunters I know get a chance and usually take a deer each year. It just takes more vacation days. Tekoa
I agree with Tekoa... the density is low out here... when you go you can most likely NOT except to see a deer. Some spots are definitely better than others. That is true everywhere... Other than killing bigger / more mature deer, I would need to see more results on what antler restrictions would do increase the over number of deer seen vs the quality of deer seen. I like shooting and eating deer. I've been lucky to kill a few good Western MA bucks... but I am far from a trophy hunter. Any legal buck normally gets it and generally I only have a couple opportunities each year at ANY buck in MA
What is puzzling is you drive a little further into NY state and the numbers a generally high. Is there more agriculture out there or what. Climate and geography is about the same. I don’t get it.
I think there could be higher numbers - at least in Central MA.
Ill use Quabbin as an example (sorry, here comes a Will beating a dead horse post). Every walk into the res you would see deer. And they were not all these starved to death weak shunted little things. Biggest deer I've personally fondled (term used intentionally :)) was a 172" 12pt I'd been tracking, and bumped into a guy who shot it almost across the street from Jrdeerslayers house heading to the safety of the res. Every year guys would shoot bucks that would be 140+ inches. There were many big deer shot around the res... and the first few years of the quabbin hunt, when there were a lot of deer in there still, guys shot some really awesome bucks.
It's high woods areas with minimal ag for sure, and certainly didnt appear over browsed (yes, the res looked close to southern CT browse wise, but the edges sure didnt. They didnt look much different than today). My end point, speaking solely to central MA, is that I do think more deer could live there healthy, happy and well.
I see this in the northern CT areas I hunt too. Big woods. Cross the state line and with a couple miles more deer. On that one, I'm convinced it's 100% written landowner permission required - which I want NOTHING to do with in as much of MA as possible. That said, a certain side effect of that, is more deer... Case in point: Bolton :)... ask Moons :)
That's the only reason I'd be into an AR here - to help elevate the numbers a bit.
BC, Yes NY has more Ag, also where there is mostly forest it seems a bit younger. At least where I go anyways. I hunt Columbia county NY and Southwest Mass. Tekoa
Instead of blaming deer for acres of empty understory , MA should have selective cut it's state land... but tree huggers dont seem to understand that reality
Cougar, Agree that cutting state land would help. From what I've seen, small clear cuts are more effective than selective cuts. By small I mean 5-20 acres. 3-10 years after a clear cut there are usually a bunch of deer focusing on that area. Great berry picking too. I just do not see the same impact with selective cuts. All the oaks get taken and not much in return. I don't think the lack of understory in the Berkshires was created by an overabundance of deer, there never was really high numbers. Rather it is just the shade impact from an 80 -100 year old tree canopy.
Tekoa
Will, there is no deer in bolton. Only wabbits. Don't give those z11 guys any ideas :)
I agree with Tekoa 100%. When you drive past the old mature Berkshires you run into NY and see young skinny woods along with fields and thick growth. Prime habitat for rabbits and deer. I hunt a spot in zone 6 that has clearcuts and every spring the deer flock to them. The odd part is this spot has clearcuts, swamps, stream, oaks everywhere, pines for cover, hardly any doe permits and I swear their is the same amount of deer every year I walk in the snow. I would think for that kind of habitat their would be a ton of deer by now. They also have nowhere to get hit by a car either so I’m baffled. For zone 6 though their is a decent population there as opposed to other spots in that zone.
We Wuv Wabbits. Lets go to Bolton ! I'm Starting the Z11 Bus fund ...The "Bolton -Bolt" bring your Crossbows !!! Thanks for the Tip Moons see you in October....
Spike , The good and healthy and smart deer all move towards the morning sun and that explains why they come east.
Happens with people too ! :) :( :)
Pi - air bow's... Crossbow's are yesterday's news. Bring your Air Bows... :)
Tekoa that's a great point on the cuts. I cant speak to everywhere, but I've been pleasantly surprised with many areas of DCR land I hunt from Quabbin east to Worcester where they have done many little patches - 2-5 acres probably, where they flat our clear cut little patches. The first few years, deer would browse the new growth, turkey's would use them as strut zones. As years go on, they turn into nasty thickets of new growth, but create funnels via the little bits of mature woods between segments. I hope they keep doing that. Sure feels like a good move to continue for sure.
Air bows it is. We will set up 20 man drives for the opening day of archery.
it's amazing the difference in deer density as you go over the line into NY from Berkshire County. Hillsdale, Ghent, Austerlitz, Spencertown, etc.. they are overrun with deer.
How come when I see an air bow, I feel like I should be wearing orange?
Gatling Air Bow'uns . 30 man drives . No setbacks... Mobile Death squad.
Pi - did you take that off the "description" of hunters from the PETA website :)
You guys are thinking too small !!! Airbows are cute but let's do it right
yes, please. How about 3 points min on one side, I am all in. And please go with one buck only while we are at it!
One Buck rule . At least every other year.
Tekoa, clear cuts have the advantage of getting thicker (possibly more bedding potential) and creating more hard edges and inside corners. this makes them easier to hunt IMO. I hunt a lot of land in Southern Maine where the selective cutting has been ramped up in the last decade. Ive seen just as good results in deer habit and numbers with this practice versus the clear cuts of the timber land up north. obviously there are other factors such as harshness of winter and loss of yarding habitat with clear cuts. And you know the tree huggers just might go for .... yea nevermind. saddens me to hike in the holyokes and see a big empty forest. Some day a fire will inevitably reset things, but maybe not in our lifetime
