Crossbow season change idea.
Wisconsin
What if, instead of piggy backing on the VB tag the HB season eats the F tag ?
Keep the dates the same but HB is stand alone or $3 option on the firearm tag. Still a 2 buck limit as now, only limits to just one buck with a superior weapon, like muzz does. Gun hunters would have nothing to complain about except not getting this new buck opportunity in the bow season which is what happened for those who were not VB.
This does the same to F as has been done to VB the past 3 years. VB didn't gain an extra opportunity, just a weapon choice. If it was good for the goose ….
The popularity of HB is largely fueled by Second tag opportunity for gun hunters who were not VB, and to a lessor extent VB who switched over or added the type.
This would allow VB that F tag all season (being lessor included to HB) instead of just as lessor weapon at certain times. Huge win for VB.
This would bring the buck kills back to VB and off of either HB & F.
I think everyone would admit it is an improvement over the current situation, amirite?
I realize it is never easy to take something away, but this is more of a rearrangement and the HB thing was supposed to be reevaluated anyway.
This might be something all bowhunters can agree on. Lets run this as a vote. On your first post in this thread please start with 'for' or 'against'.
Group hunting would mean this would have essentially no impact.
Group hunting has never been allowed for any kind of bow.
This would do nothing to address the ever-growing percentage of bucks that are being killed by crossbows. I'd guess there are many gun hunters not interested in investing another $1,000-$2,000 dollars on new equipment.
I didn't say it was. You insinuated that "burning" your buck tag with a crossbow harvest would make a difference. It won't because the hunter could still group hunt during gun season.
Take the scopes off of crossbows and the field gets leveled.
But skook, it still takes that gun tag out of the equation rahter having used a bow tag and still retain his gun tag.
Deer season does not need to get more complicated,,,,, since they are already here, run the cross bow season, from the beginning of archery to Oct 15th,,,,, resume gun season and late season,,,,, end of story
Guys on private land are going to do what they want, anyway,,,,,,I mean who is going to check? Sad state of affairs,,,, when they had the lessor weapon rule, they had it right,,,,,,,
No handicap or 65 and over person, should have to pay extra either
For, but only allowing xguns during gun season and muzzle loader would be better.
How do you deal with kids? Now that we have no hunting age limit, you disenfranchising those kids that can't pull a vertical bow minimum weight. Do you allow those kids to be treated like the 65 plus age group? Should we even allow 65 plus or handicapped people to use crossbow during archery season? They technically would have there own season.
It doesn't really matter.....nothing is going to change
If kids can't pull the minimum they shouldn't be bowhunting. As far as the OP's idea, it's good but as skook said group bagging is the work around. People will just shoot bucks during gun season on others tags. Hell a rule like this might make more people buy tags for Grandma, Aunts, wife...
Exactly. Nearly anyone that shoots a deer with a crossbow and uses their rifle tag will just hunt on other people's tags come rifle season.
If kids can't pull they shouldn't hunt, but yet it is ok for old people over 65 to use them. That makes no sense at all.
Yup, gun season (muzzle loader included) is where crossbows should be. Have separate gun, xbow and vertical bow licenses so results can be tracked. Buying both gun and xbow not allowed. Buying vertical and xbow license is allowed but just one buck allowed. If someone wants to use both vertical and xbow then they have to buy both licenses but still can only use one bow buck tag total (vertical or xbow) during gun and bow season combined.
Geesh,,,,, lets just deer hunt...... Have a 2 season hunt,,,,, bow and gun,,,, glad you guys do not make the rules, we would need another 5 pages to read,,,,,,,
One buck should only be applicable for biological reasons, I mean real wildlife science not political science......
65 and over and the handicap should be able to use a cross bow, with no question asked, and they should not to have to pay any extra fee,,,, give them a break
Jeff explain to me, why you care what someone uses for a weapon? Why is it all the compound shooters that have their undies in a twist over this?
a lot of my friends, do not believe in the compounds, period,,,, they see nothing positive about them, but they do not complain, that they should have their own season,,,,,,,
I just do not get it,,,,,,,,, I will move on,,,,,,,,
A compound still has to be physically drawn at the point of kill. Now, if the law states that the crossbow cannot be at full draw till the point of kill, I would have no problem.
A compound still has to be physically drawn at the point of kill. Now, if the law states that the crossbow cannot be at full draw till the point of kill, I would have no problem.
This could be much simpler. Deer tags should not be weapon specific. Seasons should be weapon specific with a lesser weapon rule.
Helgramite is right on. X andbow gun in gun seasons. Regular gun and ML gun seasons. Archery (vertical bow) during archery season, which may overlap with either or both gun seasons.
Ground Hunter, the people (DNR or politicians?) that allowed crossbows were wise and made it so their success would be known, this was done specifically so if users of them started to dominate the archery season then they would have the facts to do something about it.
well Jeff, there not going back to the lessor weapon rule, I can assure you of that, but maybe they will adjust the season, not to include the rut,,,,, we will all kind of know this spring, that is for sure, would not miss this meeting for anything
Once airgun's are legal we won't have to worry about crossbow's anymore . Then season's may change .
What happened to the complains about the lack of hunter recruitment and how the woods will be empty in a few years? If the woods are going to be empty why push for separate bow seasons? There will be 100's of hunter free acres for those left to hunt.
Gojakesgo, That's another subject entirely. They want to increase usage. But they want nothing to do with increasing access.
Here is another reason to vote,,,, stopped by today a local club, finishing up a week long predator hunt, prizes etc,,,, the talk on the cross bow, from all these target shooters, was very casual, they really did not care, one way or the other,,,, so you see, it will depend on who shows up to vote,,,,,,
This is all about greed. Compound hunters have bows/tools to make shooting a deer in 2018 as easy as shooting a deer with a crossbow. It's not hard during the rut in a stand in the right area at 10-30 yards. Compound hunters always had 1st pickings over the rifle guys, and now the rifle guys are encroaching on their 1st opportunity pre-rifle hunting with a crossbow. Yes, crossbows also make killing at greater distances easier but I don't know anyone that hunts like that. They all sit in the same areas, at the same height in tree's.
What is also being missed is that all these hunters who got used to hunting in fall now pre-gun will just buy a compound bow and shoot that same deer you wanted regardless. We got a taste of how nice it is to sit in the woods during that time.
It's also being missed some people who couldn't hunt for medical reasons like my wife actually enjoys hunting now, and got her 1st deer of her life last year because they made crossbows legal. Sadly the medical reason present wouldn't qualify for the handicap/crossbow license in years past.
Crossbows season needs to stay. Only dates that matter is the rut, and if you take that away you take away crossbow season and the DNR knows that. I will vote pro to keep, as will everyone I know who uses one.
If the DNR and study reviews we are hurting the herd, then laws should be changed at that point. People shouldn't decide that. Proven facts by officials who care about our environment should decide that.
Then loose the X-gun and use a BOW. Like you said, they are the same, right? Cocked and loaded.
Most cross gunners are liars and thats a fact.
"It's also being missed some people who couldn't hunt for medical reasons like my wife actually enjoys hunting now, and got her 1st deer of her life last year because they made crossbows legal. Sadly the medical reason present wouldn't qualify for the handicap/crossbow license in years past." If that is the case, chances are your wife does not have the determination to really want to hunt with a vertical bow.
Greed is a beautiful thing. More gun hunters are taking away the advantage bow hunters had for years. I have a vertical, and shooting something dead at 20 yards is simple. Got a monster buck last year, and taking the other one this year.
Enjoy the new rules boys. I found this forum because of other crossbow forums pointing out how much hatred/bias is on this site.
DNR cares about the health of the heard, and money in-take to support our environment. Not a bunch of hunters who want first pickings. Tide has changed boys!!!!!! Take care all!!!!!
dinky2.... go back to cross gun nation
Yes D?, this is for bowhunters, not people who want to exploit the archery season with a gun so they can make up for there shortcomings as a successful bowhunter.
Dtyne, your statements go to show clearly you have little to no experience hunting with a vertical bow. Crossbow and compound bow are not anywhere near equal. I could think of several situations, including one this year that I had a Pope and Young buck get away on me with my compound where if I had a crossbow, they would have been dead. Does that make me want to get a crossbow?? Hell no, because I like the challenge. It makes a successful kill that much more satisfying to me.
How about HB for the other game? Any problem with that or is it just about deer?
Door ,,,,, I can only speak for myself...... I love to shoot everything, but the issue is and has been, full inclusion into the "archery" season. There are many, myself included, that for the archery season, a bow should be drawn back by hand. the only exception, are those with a disability, those 65 and over, and those with physical problems, that there doctors, sign off on.........................
I always liked the lesser weapon rule. The crossbow, should be used, on any legal game, you can use a gun for. I am going to use one this spring, for turkey, for one of my tags......
On April 9th, there will be a vote, for whatever way you want it, "vote",,,,, than the chips will fall as they may.......................
Wisconsin allowed the xbow, for the reasons of looking hard at it, that is why they had the 3 year rule.... so we will see..............................
that is how I see it anyways................as always, stay well and keep em sharp
How about this. If you want to use a crossbow, you have to pass a yearly proficiency test. Three arrows out of five into a 5" circle, free hand at 20 yards. It has to be with broadheads also. I have a buddy that used to have a side job at the Gander in Woodbury. He gave the proficiency tests for the metro unt. He said the amount of people that would buy a new rig, practice hours and proclaim they were ready was outrageous. Most of these people could drill targets, but once even a little pressure was on, meaning someone watching and giving the test. A lot flopped. This was with mostly vert bows that the people with little practice flopped. The xbow users got to shoot off a rest so it wasn't much to it for them. But yeah there is no difference between xbows and compounds.
proficiency test for everyone, all weapons. slingshots to howitzers!
Dtyne, what, the flavor of tidepods has changed? In all seriousness, I agree with you. The greed of some people who would take advantage of a buck deer during the mating season, with a superior weapon, and just for the set of horns, is incredibly greedy. Do you scam the welfare system also?
I also don't understand Dtyne's statement about greed. He acts like gun hunters had been banned from bow season. I'd be fine with more gun hunters switching to BOW. But instead, many waited for a superior weapon to become legal. What was stopping them before that???
Has to be at least one in every crowd. I hear a lot of uninformed people talk about how compounds are as easy to shoot as xguns. Have they not looked at the reason this became an issue? The success rate on bucks is almost twice as high with an xgun as a human powered bow. Even a dtyne should be able to do the math.The lame excuse about not qualifying for a xgun permit from you Doctor is fake also. There is no test, there is no qualifying. You tell your Doc that you cant pull your bow and he will ask if you need a class A or a class B license. Class A is for shooting from a vehicle. Simple as that. I know many that have done it just to see if they could. My Doc has been telling me that it would be easier on me if I would go to an xgun for over 10 years. I told him I am a hunter, not a killer. Also funny that these guys with bad shoulders can take a pounding from their rifles & climb trees with no complaints. Nobody is trying to eliminate xguns. Just looking for equality for all hunters & to give back the advantage to the elderly & handicapped that can't hunt with a human powered bow.
LOL @ human powered bows. What bow isn't drawn back by a human?
Xbows. They are cocked by sub humans.
I've said this many times before. If crossbows offer no advantage. Why are they the weapon of choice for the disabled, young, elderly?
Rut, you will continue to get no answer from the hypocritical users when their only truth is personal greed.
Albino.... I prefer untermensch
Tweed, have you been reading your Readers Digest again? I am old & had to look that one up. I'm guessing I skipped school that day. That is a fitting word & I learned something new today. Now I can get my nap in. Thanks.
Someone came up with an idea that I particularly like-during the archery season any weapon used must be "cocked" at the point of kill....To whomever-I like that idea. I may well get scolded but no love here...
If your looking for simple ideas, you could copy and paste from other state regulations. That's pretty simple.
Normally that does not need to be said but with the current crop of greedy buck killers, a remedial lesson is not a bad idea.
Nice, another hunter hater thread.
Why don't you go to a cross gun site
Shouldn't that say "at least" 24 inches? Technically, way it reads : 24 and only 24
"Why don't you go to a cross gun site. "
That would only make sense if I hunted with a crossbow, which I don't. One of these days you'll write a post that actually makes sense. ;-)
A crossbow has never been a bow. Bowhunters use bows, crossbow hunters use crossbows.
Those who hunt with crossbows are not bowhunters.....and most never will be ! Bowhunting is dying in the US.
This has been beat to death,,,, go vote
It is amazing how many fail to believe it ( or admit it ), despite overwhelming evidence.
ground hunter X 2. Also, why are so many of you highly opinionated people hiding behind fake names and states?
Agree with ground hunter 100%. Put your opinion to use on April 9th. Opinions don't change things, but votes may.
Missouri- you may be right but that doesn't change the fact that I love bowhunting and will continue to until Its physically impossible to pull back a bow. Everyone has a choice to stand for what they believe in or take an easier route.
Exactly correct RJN. Problems begin to occur when bowhunters are a minority to crossbow hunters, as they are now in Michigan and Wisconsin. Who do you think has the larger voice?
Here is the harsh reality. More and more are laying down their bow for a crossbow... and even more plan to do so in the near future. And, I would venture to guess the vast majority on this site are raising their children to be crossbow hunters, not bowhunters. Bowhunting is dying and cannot be stopped, save your money and energy. Any gains will be temporary.
Um, Missouri if you look at the tables in my link I posted the DNR sold more bow licenses than crossbow.
There are differing reports, I would be most concerned with the trending.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/outdoors/2018/01/13/hunters-using-crossbows-killed-more-deer-wisconsin-than-crossbow-deer-kill-surpasses-vertical-bow-ki/1016497001/
Today's numbers not available, trending pretty much says it all.
Don't let the trends and truths get to you, much greater things in life than a deer. Bowhunting is dying, but will not die completely.
"Here is the harsh reality. More and more are laying down their bow for a crossbow... and even more plan to do so in the near future."
A common thing I hear from guys that have made the switch from compound bow to crossbow is that they are more accurate which means less wounded deer running off to die a slow death, which makes sense. Also I've heard that not having to pull the bow back means less deer on edge and "jumping the string" resulting in less bad hits/wounded deer which goes along with the folks here that find it so gosh darn challenging to pull a bow back with a deer in the vicinity but so very easy to use a crossbow. I find it hard to hate hunters that strive for a quick kill.
Hunterr- with your theory then we should just use rifles. Archery is suppose to be a challenge, xgunners want to make killing easier, plain and simple.
Hunter R. I have actually talked to a lot of archery shop owners about this. They ALL say the big reasons people switch. Less practice time needed, sight it and forget it. Increased range. Last but not least, it's just easier to line up crosshairs and pull a trigger, than to draw, anchor, line up peep and pin, make sure your level is good and squeeze through a nice release. Not to mention having to bend at the waist if hunting from a treestand.
I disagree HunterR, I believe the wounding/loss rate has increased due to X-guns. STUPID SHOTS AT LONG RANGE!!! and not finding blood. This was also stated by a guy who rents out his tracking dog.
"challenging to pull a bow back with a deer in the vicinity but so very easy to use a crossbow." Great when people get the facts straight....
"I find it hard to hate hunters that strive for a quick kill."
Then why not push for rifles allowed during "bow" season?
I wish there was a like button on here for some of these responses.
Live2hunt - Exactly. I know a guy that has lost a number of bucks with a crossbow. He blames the broad heads. Maybe if he'd just take the shots he took when he hunted with a bow this wouldn't have happened.
Hoot that guy must be a real tool................ this winter I used one after my hear recovery, rebuilding my muscles. It is a killing machine,,,,,, I killed deer at 56 yards without a problem,,,,,,, You have to be a complete moron and inept with a weapon, not to kill quickly and easy with one..........................
any healthy person, who uses one, should be ashamed of themselves, like those with disabled parking stickers, but can walk ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I was told I could have one of those stickers, I told them, really, when I look down I see two legs,,,,, I would not think of it...................................
It should be in all gun seasons, and for those that truly need it, and elderly,,,,,,, At 68 I do not feel old,,,,,, too hard headed,,, plus I hang out with younger hunters, its more fun
"plus I hang out with younger hunters, its more fun"
That's funny because I have almost always hunted/hung out with older guys as I thought they were more fun to be around. When I was in my early 20's and my youngest hunting buddy was 12 years older than me, the oldest 50 years older. I just thought that was normal. Of course it makes sense why now I got dragging duty most of the time;)
Hunter, thanks for the perspective. Now we know what types you associate with. I only know one crossbow user but then again, I choose my friends carefully.
"Hunter, thanks for the perspective. Now we know what types you associate with."
Having a friend who shoots a crossbow is almost as bad as having one who hunt enclosures in Africa. :>)
Retro, jealousy is such an ugly trait.
Even worse would be hunting an enclose in Wisconsin with a xgun.
"Hunter, thanks for the perspective. Now we know what types you associate with."
Having a friend who shoots a crossbow is almost as bad as having one who hunt enclosures in Africa. :>) "
Almost? lol. I don't know any crossbow hunters that pay someone to get them close enough to their "game" and tell them when to shoot, or that shoot animals in the zoo. Talk about lazy and making things easy.
"I find it hard to hate hunters that strive for a quick kill."
"Then why not push for rifles allowed during "bow" season?"
Because there already is a rifle season. Much like there already is a crossbow season. Personally I wouldn't worry about the crossbow season, from what I kept hearing from the loudmouths on this site was that since it is a "separate" season from the bow season everything will be fine and dandy. In fact lets all thank those that helped create this separate crossbow season.
"I disagree HunterR, I believe the wounding/loss rate has increased due to X-guns. STUPID SHOTS AT LONG RANGE!!! and not finding blood. This was also stated by a guy who rents out his tracking dog. "
I know one of these guys and he did get busier, in fact much busier. Yes some of his clientele were crossbow users. He attributes his increase in business to the fact that more people are out there taking part in the bow season, which makes sense. Kinda like I'm sure there were more wounded deer running around shortly after compounds entered the picture years ago. Guess it all depends on who you talk to and what you want to believe.
Hunterrrrr, careful, your ignorance is showing.
Tweed has done surveys on this site before and it would be interesting to have a Bowsite survey on crossbows. Maybe a couple straight forward questions on how we prefer crossbows be used in deer hunting. If it was anonymous and everyone choose not to vote the Chicago way-vote early and often, it would be interested to see results.
It has been suggested once or twenty times that there are a lot of closet crossbowers here. That got me thinking...
Hunterrrr, what does already having s gun season have to do with using firearms during the archery season? Not to bright, are you?
They could have killed 2 birds with one stone,,,,, besides the crossbow usage and season length, they should have added no scopes for crossbows, except over 65 or disabled......
I mean you can not seriously be against cross bows, and go out with a scoped, ML,,,, do you not see the irony in that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
My first sentence should have read "they should have added no scopes for ML's except for those 65 and over and disabled,,,,,,, you can not support both in my opinion
I think since the x gunners slapped the handicapped & the disabled vets in the face by taking over their advantage that they should let the handicapped use rifles during the bow season.
Ground, is there such a thing as an unscoped HB, I don't think I have seen such a sight system yet. And do you really want to thwart accuracy? More wounded deer.
No I realize the HB needs a scope,,, I guess what I was saying, that a ML doesn't, but that is what got everyone into the game.... Heavens be, you have to shoot closer, than the single shot rifle season they have now....... Guys are against the scope xbow, but go hunt the ML with a scoped gun???? thought we were suppose to have a primitive season,,,,, guess not
They do in fact make non scoped sights for crossbows. There are states that don't allow scopes on crossbows, even for the disabled. I linked one, but there are quite a few manufacturers. The reason I know this is I researched it for my handicapped hunting buddy for a Colorado hunt.
Just received the latest issue of the Wisconsin Outdoor News.
Vol.25, no.7 - April 6, 2018.
Lot of good reading. Front page article, commentary,letters to the editor, etc..
Check it out.
Is there an age limit at Mondays public dnr meeting? Can anyone fill out a questionair or do you need to be a certain age?
Good question GJG. My 16 year old daughter wants to go. But I can't find any info an whether she can vote or not.
Yes she can vote, she is old enough for a hunting license, for that matter, I would think anyone could now,,,, how can they tell her no.....................
I think the cross bowers are going to win, from the talk at my club, a lot of bowhunters, want their wives to hunt, they are all in that late 50 to early 60 range, and since the cross bow has been allowed, they are out hunting,,,,,,,,,
I think that if the WCC had listened to the sportsmen in this state, for years, asking for a 55 year old rule change, this would never have been an issue,,,,,, But again the WCC has to listen, something they are not very good at........ they mostly have their own agendas, and we know best attitudes,,,,,,,,,
I think the WCC is irrelevant, except for holding these meetings,,,,,, Right or wrong it is the NRB that you have to go to,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
