G&F in full force
New Mexico
I recall a thread here about getting checked by G&F and I had stated I had been checked during deer season, well the department is in full force for barbary sheep! WOW. By the end of the 1st weekend (thurs opener) I have been checked 5 times by 5 different wardens.
Opening day G&F seized 2 sheep (26" and 29") shot on BLM by hunters with ranch only tags, I did not catch what their charges were but I'll try to report back when I find out. I'm glad to see my conservation dollars being put to good use! Keep up the good work gentlemen.
ceased = siezed
I suspect RO tags get used on public quite often for many species. In some cases I honestly don't know whether ranchers even know what land is "theirs" and what land is "ours".
Be careful out there, as quite often fencelines have no relation to public/private boundaries and likely sheep get killed by public hunters on private at times.
I get to typin and droolin... ya never know what grammatical errors I'm capable of!
Yeah, I've noticed the discrepancies and keep my GPS handy at all times. Sadly there are quite a few well known ranchers/hands that have a long reputation of harassing hunters. I cannot understand why they haven't been charged w/ such crimes.
If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. It really is that simple. Know where you are hunting! No excuse in this day and age.........
I have no problems shootin the Bull with LE, but I do have a problem with a land owner who threatens law abiding hunters and calls g&f when no laws are broken.
Not to mention my buddy who was with us is a retired cop who did some successful game stings with one of the highest ranking officers, can’t remember his title. To be more blunt nothing about this post is worrisome.... in fact quite the opposite.
Just a side comment - have had ranchers claim they have 50,000 acres, yet only 600 of it deeded. The other 49,400 are BLM. Also, have been in units where CO's kinda let things slide a little because of the local crowd.
Have dealt with ro guys on public land multiple times in the same unit the last 2 years. Took pictures,marked there locations , called the warden, EVERYTHING we could think of!! Nothing was done!!
Hunting in the Gila in 2015 a few years ago, a 4 wheeler and side by side blazed a trail past the dead end where I set my base camp. There was a sign that clearly stated no motorized vehicles beyond this point. Took pic with licence plate of the 4 wheeler, parked a mile in with gps coordinates. Like Splitlimb, nothing was done. The g&f officer I spoke to after the hunt stated there simply aren't enough officers to investigate.......
But, if you were to accidentally be on private, g&f would be on you like white on rice.
Then there'd be enough of them...
I had a similar issue last year but didn't report it as I know, and have talked to, the officer responsible for several units. Had I had cell service I would've.
Sheep opener we were on our way out of an area we crossed paths w/ a GW on his way to a bullsh*t call from a notorious complainer. This rancher had called b/c another hunter pulled up to the end of the road, which is posted, and turned around. The hunter then parked on a BLM and went hunting. There was a note on his window, it wasn't a pleasant one. So this guy calls LE for no apparent reason.. this is harassment and the warden was very aware of this ranchers reputation. Furthermore on the county road he has built an illegal berm you have to drive around. We told the GW and he was aware, told us to call the county road office... REALLY!! His knowledge of this should've translated to their knowledge and the rancher should've been cited. This surge of wardens were probably pulled in from neighboring units/areas, again, I'll ask my friend.
I did call county road services and they were aware and said it would be bladed monday. They also said he would be warned and if it materialized again he'd be fined or whatever. Pathetic if you ask me. Not defending the hunters in the first post, but I don't think they were extended the courtesy of a warning when they broke the law and I know I wouldn't be shown that degree of leniency either.
HDE hit it on the head! Tables turned,and we'd get the short end of the stick .
Yes and no, really depends on the officer. If level headed and the incident was an honest mistake then I have some faith in the officer's discretion.
My friend and I were "caught" on private property my first trip out west for otc. In fact we were camped and ready for the opener... Well after a short scouting trip we came back to a note and were met by a police officer on the way out. After pleading our case he said the LO wants to press full charges but he could clearly see it was an honest mistake and sent us on our way. We had 2 or 3 different maps showing the property as public and it was not adequately posted. It was also the day before opener so we weren't hunting on the property, just trespassing. If we had game down may have been a different outcome.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of officers who are flat out pricks.
Thing is though in NM it only has to be posted on the main entrance and too many times the CO's say "it is the hunter's responsibility to..."
HDE, I respect the hell out of ya. But the burden is on the hunter to know where he/she is. You know as well as I, a gps with land status is a must. Mine has NM and CO. I'd hate to rely on compass and maps these days that's for sure. But I hear what you're saying.
I had a ranch hand try to tell me I couldn't camp where I was camped one time back in the days of maps. So I interrupted my hunt long enough to pull my map out and place it on the hood of my truck. He left pretty quick. Thing is, he was probably 5 miles from the ranch on a 4 wheeler and still acted like he owned the joint lol.
Another time one of the Corn's stopped me on a county road north and west of Roswell and thought he'd ask me what the hell I was doing (with a big revolver on his dash) as I was coming off BLM. He told me he didn't appreciate big 4x4's rutting the 2 tracks up. (Had a '75 Ranger f250 highboy at the time. Very heavy truck :). I pulled out the map again and he left all pissed off.
Never used to be like it is now. Especially with money involved. Add to that vandalism and blatant trespassing and it's a recipe for hard feelings both ways. It's a small minority ruin it for all. Hell we used to have permission to drive across half a dozen ranches and fish a half dozen more on the stock ponds. That all seemed to end around 2000 I think.
Harassment sucks and 100% positive it happens. And far too often as I've heard real horror stories on that issue where guns have been pulled and the whole 9 yards.......
^^^ I know it is. That's why I have the quote "it's the hunters responsibility..."
The point to some of this thread is it seems CO's don't do enough to those who intentionally go against the rules, but when a hunter does by ommission, the world is coming to an end.
I have had both game wardens and USFS law enforcement tell me in 6A that they tend to leave the locals "alone" because they see the Jemez as their backyard...
Funny you should mention Corns, pretty much same area, I've not had nor heard of anyone having issue w/ the Corns. Marley is a real prick rancher along w/ Tate at the Wendall ranch, Tate is the one responsible for the berm and note. What blows me away is their reputation of harassment yet no repercussions to dissuade their assault.
Ole boy by the name of Gist spit in my buddy's face one year on public land. G&F came out and did nothing!
That’s assault, the cops should’ve been notified and charges pressed by your friend. I also would’ve ran in thru the g&f ranks.
Wow! Being spit on is bad. I don't think I would even bother with the cops on that one. I bet the rancher won't either when he is nursing his wounds. That may not be the right thing to do but sometimes those types only know one thing and need to learn the hard way. We all know what we want to do including myself but you have no idea what the other guy is capable of either. Tough choice there. Lol
He was 17 at the time. Monday morning qb'ing is easy. He did what he thought he should do at the time in calling G&F.
Assault AND battery. Assault if you saw it coming even if it didn't hit you. Battery if it hit you whether or not you saw it coming. And yes, charges should have been pressed.
That said, thankfully I've never been in that situation.
Although my buddy was yelled at by a rancher a year ago hunting Barbs. He had hiked a LONG way thru public to get to where he was (on public) and a rancher confronted him and accused him of trespassing because he couldn't believe my buddy had hiked. Plus likely the rancher didn't even know the actual boundaries of public and private.
My buddy basically said "let's call G&F because I have my GPS, land status chip, and know exactly where I am and can prove how I got here".
At 17, I would've had words with the SOB if he spit. What would've happened then, who knows...
On a lighter note, anyone going to the expo in Abq this weekend?
I'd probably would go if I didn't have this sheep tag to fill. Is that the DSCI banquet? I know the RMEF banquets are coming up in March.
It's the one affiliated with DSCI at the fair grounds I believe.
It's actually the NM G&F Banquet, hosted by the DSCI. Last year First in the Field hosted it and Steven Rinella (meat eater) was the guest speaker, it's amazing how much people spend on the live auction hunts. I'll skip this one and just go to the RMEF banquet this year, I spend way too much at these things to do two of them.
It would be very cool to get enough guys to reserve a table at the RMEF banquet under the UBNM name (10 people I think)LOL it's funny how the subject changes on these threads!
I'll be at the RMEF banquet with a buddy and the wives. The 4 of us are already registered or I'd be in on the table.
I thought the DSCNM was associated this year with the governors auction and the NM sports expo were different events? Or am I just more confused?
Went to the expo today and bought the winning raffle ticket to the Govr's elk tag at the RMEF booth.
What you’re really trying to say is you have the winning raffle ticket until the raffle?
Congratulations in advance.
Talked to my GW buddy, said one guy was charged with hunting without a tag (he hadn't shot anything) and the other 2 with unlawful possession of game. Something like that, I can't keep up w/ the LE lingo.
We are not required to carry a map or GPS while hunting. It is the responsibility of the landowner to post all outer/exterior boundaries of his property in order to prevent trespassing. Posting the front gate or the area way down by the road that you have no knowledge of isn't enough to say you've been notified. Look it up under the landowner statute. The G and F will quote the front gate statute if you say I didn't know it was private land. They most certainly won't quote the landowner statute to you, because it doesn't benefit them. the landowners don't want the responsibility of having to post all exterior boundaries of their properties. They also seem to think we should all be running around with expensive GPS gadgets and should know better. As far as I'm aware, a fenceline way back in the back country does not constitute private land in NM. Every circumstance is different, but my point is, we are not required to carry a map, gps, or a compass.
No you are not required to carry all that. But you are required to know where you are hunting..........
Any private land boundary that is not fenced requires it be posted every 300' , every private parcel that IS fenced requires only the access points of the property be posted. I have a dad and uncle that are in their 60's and don't even know how to turn on a gps. Sure it is the responsibility of the hunter to know where they're hunting . I'm sure there is a large number of hunters who do not know how to use today's technology. This past season we ran in to several locked gates and posted private land signs ,ON PUBLIC LAND! If I was not with them they would have had no idea that the land behind the locks and fences were PUBLIC LAND. Wardens were called by myself and several other hunters about the issue ,and to top that 10 of us had pics and eye witness accounts with the RO hunters hunting the public land behind the gates and in in other areas and NOTHING WAS DONE! How many people did those signs turn away? If one person didn't hunt there for lack of being up to date with technology that is ONE TO MANY! Even after several of us met with the warden ,showed them the signs,locked gates, pics of the private land only guys on public land , NOTHING WAS DONE! If a guy accidentally wonders on the private I doubt the result would be the same.
The only thing the proc reads on trespass is that a hunter who knowingly enters property legally posted and/or does not have permission.
Sounds like for it to be a legit complaint of an LO, they (the LO) is responsible to legally and properly post their property, not the hunters to make sure it's legally posted to ensure they are not trespassing.
Talk about needing GPS units, just think when the antelope changes to unlimited LO tags that are only good on their deeded lands, you think they wont be hunting all those leased parcels of BLM and State that will be open for unit wide public tags? I would bet that the LO's will do everything they can to keep the public from accessing those leased or blocked lands and start making it harder for the public to access just like they were trying to do in unit 32....it's going to be a mess and there is not enough LE to do a thing about it. I would like to see them sign agreements for access if they want any antelope tags, shoot that is the leverage they should apply for any LO tags for any species, access to our lands or no tags!
After thinking about it for a couple minutes, there is no way to leverage anything without amending or getting rid of the Jennings law
The deal with our situation I am speaking about is that the gates that were locked were from public land to public land, the signs that were posted were on public land. There was no private around! Matter of fact the private was locked by the public ! It's just a revolving cycle of LO can get away with just about anything.
I have the same experiences that splitlimb speaks of. EVERYTIME I hunt nm. It is a struggle in nm every time I go there to get landowner permission to hunt legally accessed public land! Nowhere ive hunted is even close to as bad as nm with the wardens looking out for private interests and not assisting in keeping public lands public. I agree with above post 100%
Might be a dumb question but , why not cut the lock ? Public land is public land and it's illegal to lock off or post as private what is public. Doesn't seem like cutting an illegally placed lock could be illegal.
I agree with you BMC with we still need to get G&F to start enforcing things. Cutting a lock but then being shot at by LO's as you enter public are two different things. That's the problem and what LO's do. FWIW George Munoz has a plan to open up all SLO properties to hunters. No questions asked.
swampokie " EVERYTIME I hunt nm. It is a struggle in nm every time I go there to get landowner permission to hunt legally accessed public land! "
you don't need landowner permission to hunt legally accessed public land, do you?
Well priley I didn't think so but some landowners didn't agree.
well I don't know what to tell you swamp, but I'm pretty quick to to tell said landowners they should call the sheriff cause we are going to need them.
If its public and accessible I hunt it.
I'm going to quote the warden" YOU SHOULD NOT CUT TGAT LOCK, ITS DESTRUCTION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY" what a joke.
That's the same as some one moving their family to the 30 foot wide road right of way in front of my house and walking on MY land to lock MY front door to keep me out of MY house. I guess it's the way it's always been. Just ask the Apache. Free country??
What does the Apache have to do with anything?
Cut the lock and leave a $5 bill in Monopoly money...
I agree hde. I figured out the combo, drove my truck n trailer through ,called the warden myself , and took my horses to get my wife's bull. The ranchers wife was SO PISSED. She didn't have a response when she threatened to call the warden and I replied with " I already did,he's on his way"! I came back four hours later only to find she tried to lock me in!
So then you'd be detained against your will - kinda like kidnapping...
I would've waited behind the locked gate and called the police then filed charges for imprisonment. Just think about it Split, you could've owned that ranch!
DMC, the unit I hunt deer in is pretty notorious for having locks where they shouldn't be. I carry a cordless peanut grinder for just such an occasion. Though I haven't used it in a few years ;)
split I think that is called false imprisonment and I think its a fourth degree felony.
I haven't been in criminal court for twenty years so I could be mistaken.
I did not even think about that guys! I was to busy worrying about the meat! You guys are right! I should have played that !
That would be classic if it ever happens.
We may be there again this season! I'm going to keep this in mind.
Trophyhill , good for you! Have run into a similar situation in az. Locked gate on state owned land. Border patrol has the combo and run all over that land working and hunting, hmmmm! I have some amount of understanding for those who place the locks. Let's face the facts, there are slob hunters and they make things difficult for those who aren't. Some who lock us out of public land are just plain selfish and feel they are above the law. I live in Michigan and there is a large amount of national Forest and state land which is used recreationally by many people. Very rarely does anyone get away with blocking legal access. Occasionally an adjacent landowner will try to post public land as private , but a call to the D.N.R. , our game L.E. , gets that taken care of promptly. I would love to hear some suggestions on how this locked public land issue can be remedied.
"I came back four hours later only to find she tried to lock me in!"
I keep a tow strap in the truck.
The landowner statute clearly states in the first paragraph. Any landowner wishing to prevent trespassing shall POST all exterior boundaries of the property. It doesn't say anything about the fenceline constituting the boundary. There is cattle fence running all across the western states, running right through public land in many places. Some of it I've ran into in NM is not maintained, missing for several hundred yards at a time. In Montana, the landowners use red paint for boundary markers, in Missouri it's purple paint, Colorado I don't know for sure. My point is, nowhere that I have found, does it say that a fenceline constitutes private land in NM. The landowners in NM don't want the hassle of posting the exterior boundaries of their property, but when people inadvertently end up on their property they want to scream bloody mary and have you prosecuted. Post your property so there is absolutely no question in the hunters mind that you are entering private land, it's just that simple.
Ned, you're correct! I meant in the absence of a fence the boundaries still must be posted! Thank you for that.
500' is a long way in the trees...
It is a long ways but I can't remember seeing a property line or boundry that wasn't fenced.
There are quite a few . Just depends where you are hunting of course 21 has several.
I've seen a few on the north end of 17. That's all though.
The only place I've seen an improperly locked gate was by Roswell similar to the sketch.
When my buddy and I arrived at the XXX locked gate we were skeptical because the gate had large "Private no tresspassing" signs but according to maps it was public. We eventually decided that our maps may have been incorrect and didn't cross. We later ran into G&F officer and showed him on a map the area of our concern.
His response was the landowner kept locking the gate at the XXX instead of where he could legally lock it where the road went into his property at OO. But since the legal location was only about 200 yards beyond the XXX, G&F had given up fighting and just left the lock where it was. WTF?!?!?!
I perhaps understand the CONCEPT that driving an extra 200 yards wasn't a make or break deal at all, but it was obvious that the only reason gate XXX was locked was to give the impression that the public land was private and off limits to hunting.
We didn't make it back to the area, but if we had I'm not sure if the lock would have remained in place. Or the gate for that matter...
200 yds might as well be a mile if packing an elk out on your back.
I'm with all of u on this. I won't only remove the lock this time ,but the entire gate! I can't believe g&f are so deep in the LO pockets.
