Extended Archery in Massachusetts
Massachusetts
Mass DFW public hearing on Extended Archery Deer Season, to be held on March 7th at 6:30pm, at the DFW Headquarters located on 1 Rabbit Hill Rd. Westboro. All Sportsmen need to show up and support each other.
I'm excited at the prospect for my Z10-11 hunting brothers and sisters of the bow... Regrettably I cant get to the meeting that night. Hope a bunch of folks get there.
How exactly does this meeting work?
They discuss it, we're in the audience. They do whatever they're going to do anyway. However, with a presence there of DFW officials and anyone from the office of any State Senator, they take the "temperature of the room." Viewing our presence as a heavy Pro/Con for whatever it is that they're doing. So few people show up most of the time that if so much as 7 of us showed up they'd view it as friggin riot in support of whatever.
So, show up, say you're interested in extended season. Inquire about whatever else, and the DFW along with state reps (potentially) take note. I know it doesn't sound like much, but if only 10 of us showed up, it would have a huge impact.
I got an email about this from MassWildlife, which I find interesting.
Please e- mail
Please e- mail
Dear fellow bow hunters please support this initiative to extend the season for zones 10-14. I can honestly say as a disabled hunter in a wheelchair I will most definitely hunt more early as cold weather during late season do not mix well. Please send an EM in support of this proposal. Thanks John P
I support this , but there is no reason they can't do it state wide and adjust anterless tags accordingly to meet I believe we went thru this year's ago , then they opened up same time after a year or 2
The reason is, the gun-only hunters would scream bloody murder if you traded 'their' doe permits away for a longer archery season.
According to MA Wildlife website, they estimate 80 deer per square mile in the eastern part of the state. I'm sure there are more deer here than out west but that number seems inflated to me. I'm ok with two extra weeks but, based on my MA hunting experience, 80 per sq is a stretch.
I am in western PA periodically, and am astonished at the number of deer I see while driving around—often about one deer per minute of driving. I looked up the deer density in that area, it is reported as ~40 per square mile. 80 per square mile around here isn’t a stretch, it’s a fantasy.
If there were 80 deer per square mile therebe absolutely no vegetation on trees and bushes as high as deer could reach. It’s acrually embarrassing if those clowns claim that.
I'm going to ask about that on the 7th. It's just a flat out lie. I support the extension to the season, but the thing that's really screwing the deer population in eastern MA are the town bylaws. Until that is addressed, extending the season really isn't going to help. I would expect that reducing the distance to 250' for archers would likely have a greater impact.
Yeah, I really want to find out how they're calculating deer population because they're lying. I know the biologists handed in population numbers less than the reported 70 per sq. mile for the Blue Hills. I don't care what they say, pushing in the blue hills for a few days should net more than 3 deer. Additionally, with a success rate in the blue hills that is double the state average (~20%); that doesn't tell me 70 per square mile, that tells me there's about 15 per.
Surprised me as well. MA Wildlife sent an email about the two week extension. In it you can click on a link about deer management. That is where they list the 80 per number. Very surprising based on what guys are actually seeing out there.
I'll be there on the 7th also Sosso. I'm interested to hear what they have to say about that. I think we have a pretty good population here in eastern MA, but anyone who hunts here regularly knows that 80 per square mile is complete lunacy. State biologists must have their hands tied or are being forced into saying that number for some reason. I can't imagine a self respecting biologist intentionally putting out such false information.
I also wonder if the lack of deer seen in the Blue Hills is caused by the way in which the state runs the hunt. Do they just flood the entire place with hunters into their designated areas all at once? All those guys, with differing skill levels, just barging in there all at one time would be a great way to lock all the deer down in some thick cover or push them onto neighboring properties. Plus a big chunk of those guys are probably heading into scout a week or two before the season begins. Might be a case of less = more. Less hunters spread across a longer period of time might net more deer sightings and deer killed. Just speculation on my part as I haven't actually been part of the hunt.
I wish they would open Western MA sooner... even if it meant ending gun season prior to year end (like NY). But that will never happen... so i'll just keep dreaming...
As s former Mass resident, I would like to see an end to the "No Hunting on Sunday" policy. I can't wrap my head around this restriction when most people have only the weekends to hunt. I suspect it is part of an anti-hunting agenda that is hell bent to discourage more young people from getting into hunting. Numbers are down nation wide. I encourage that you show up at this meeting in numbers to send a message. Don't get caught in the long vs. bow hunter vs. muzzleloader debate. Fellow hunters are not your enemy. Instead of crying over a smaller piece of the pie, we just need a bigger pie! LOL! More time in the woods is plus to all. Don't forget your trappers either. My last bow hunt in western mass I saw more coyotes than deer. Was great to see the recovery of the wild turkey and also got very close to a cow moose in my old home town of Monson! LaGriz
I'd not heard the 80dpsm number before, so hoped on the MDFW site. The place I see it is in the general description of deer management - below is all cut directly from the MDFW site here https://www.mass.gov/service-details/deer-management: ------ White-tailed deer are an important part of the ecosystem and a valuable natural resource. There are now more than 95,000 white-tailed deer in Massachusetts. Densities range from about 10–15 deer per square mile in northwestern Massachusetts to more than 80 deer per square mile in areas of eastern Massachusetts closed to hunting.
Historically in Massachusetts, deer populations were controlled by three main predators: mountain lions, wolves, and humans. Now that mountain lions and wolves are absent in the Commonwealth, deer populations are able to grow in numbers in areas without regulated hunting, despite vehicle collisions and predation by black bears, bobcats, and coyotes. ----- I'm less surprised at the 80 number than the 10-15 number in NW MA :). That said, the way it reads clearly is designed to lay a very broad brush. "in areas of eastern MA..." is the key I think. There could be a pocket of deer in an unhuntable area where that may exist. All it takes is one little pocket.
It feels high on both ends to me, so I checked here, the harvest data page on the MDFW site https://www.mass.gov/service-details/deer-harvest-data: ----- MassWildlife biologists estimate that there are over 100,000 deer statewide. Estimated densities range from about 12-18 per square mile in western and central Massachusetts to over 50 deer per square mile on Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket Islands, and certain areas of eastern MA where hunting access is restricted. ----- When I read that quote, I'd debate the 12-18 number, though you kind of cant when it's "about"... likewise, eastern MA includes the islands - I could see 80+ there based on the reports of guys who hunt there. But putting the super high numbers to the islands feels more realistic.
I dug a little more but couldnt find a write up I've seen before, which estimated dpsm in Z6 as being close to 6-10. I dont remember other zones, that was the one I really wanted to check out. But I did find this https://www.mass.gov/files/2017-07/2016-deer-harvest-summary.pdf link showed some really cool info on the 16 season's harvest numbers and the goals for deer numbers in that year. Pretty cool info... I dont think they have it yet for 2017's season.
Regardless, the numbers noted seem a bit high... but they are also hyper generalized so the accuracy quotient does not appear to be a goal. It's more just a bit of "we are around here, sorta".
Having said that, if "we" show up at a meeting for a longer season (due to high numbers) and say: "Hey, those are way high and you guys are lying", that does not seem likely to help the cause. Then again, if that causes the Xbow change to stall maybe it's good (look at me stirring the pot :) - I'm kidding round there).
Maybe the better approach would be to call/email/snail mail the deer project leader and specifically ask for info and clarification. In the end, if they feel there are more deer, that's good for "us" from an opportunity perspective since they will keep looking for ways to improve hunter chances to take deer. Longer seasons, set back changes (man, I'd LOVE to see that) etc. It's frustrating as a hunter though who wants to see more deer over basically everywhere from I190/290/395 west...
Micro-zones, yes. Where I’m looking out the window right now, it’s zero per square mile. But the spot where a deer happens to be standing, it’s probably about 50,000 per square mile.
To be fair—how are you going to do a perfect job of determining deer numbers? I have no idea. For what it’s worth, Mass is about 10,000 square miles. So overall, I guess that would be 10 per square mile.
Jeb, in this case it sounds like they sent an intern to find a deer yard in January, count them up, and draw his own conclusions...
Edit: Didn't notice your micro-zones post before. That's kinda what I was getting at.
Will, can I offer one correction to your post.
In the end, if they feel there are more deer, that's good for "us" from an opportunity perspective since they will keep looking for ways to improve hunter chances to take deer.
The only thing that is good for us is if there actually are more deer, regardless of how or what they "feel"...
I have to find me a place to hunt in zone 10.
Smile for the cameras, and look up in the trees for the stands!
Peter, there in is the problem. Z10 has more towns that you can't hunt in than it has deer.
One of them being Brookline. They really need to reduce that setback.
""""The only thing that is good for us is if there actually are more deer, regardless of how or what they "feel"... """""
Bingo!
IF they ""think"" there are more deer than there are ,.. and then they end up adjust things (bag limits, dates, xbow, laser weapons, yada yada) and end up reducing the populations ,... that is bad for us,..
Eastern Ma. folks sounds good for you,.. we are jealous out here in western mass,.. word of warning though,. careful what you wish for,.. xbow ,. extended season, etc Protect what you have,... cause it is a blessing,.. dont wreck it with greed,.. ,...
Bruce - correct me any time, and yes... You are right.
To my knowledge (anyone correct me here) MA estimates numbers via kill. I'm not sure if they use aerial infra red or anything like that... But, that's not perfect either, see the CT forum's threads on deer numbers for LOTS of talk about how to estimate deer numbers that way (yikes).
Regardless, It seems MA numbers are estimated guesses, vs guesses. I have to admit, my end point would be more deer if possible.
I would suggest that the western MA guys plan some time to hunt CT and NY. Both states open early and there is definitely more deer per sq. Not sure about access but there must be places close to the boarder. Be worth it.
I hunt NY and used to hunt CT religiously... Lost my spots in CT, so that has been shelved for the past 3 years. My NY spots hold deer, but generally nothing too mature. I usually have good deer in MA on camera during daylight up until the 2nd week of October. I wish I could have hunted some of my spots that first week of October in MA... not saying I would have connected on one of those big Berkshire bucks, but they definitely are more patternable up till then. I find my spots usually slow down with daylight activity around the 10th... looking back through trail cam pics anyway.
BC, I returned to CT last year after a hiatus. No time to get private land permission, so I just hunt public. My experience in northern or central CT is that it's similar to slightly better than the western half of Z9 - so it's pretty decent. SW CT is a different beast, that's like hunting in Lexington or Concord I imagine (or better)...
Some year I'm going to consider NY or NJ for a road trip...
I hunted the last two early seasons in CT and we did very good. Saw many deer the times I got down there and someone always fills a tag or two. My bud who manages this property killed 11 (some with deprivation tags) last year.
NY has also been a great state. Not really a trophy hunt but we always kill deer. We hunted more toward the southern part but I see deer during the drive too. I posted a link about the NY state watershed property awhile back. It's open and there are good deer numbers there.
Ya I wish they would consider it for all zones and get rid of the 2nd buck tag it’s hard enough seeing deer never alone getting a shot opening soonercmy give us that chance
As a reminder this meeting is at 7PM on Wednesday night. Brave the snow!! See you there.
DFW Westborough Office 1 Rabbit Hill Road, Westborough, MA
Wish i could make it. 2 hour ride in a snow storm isn't going to allow it.
I would hope they postpone the meet. I am going if there is any way so see u there anyway .
You go somewhere else, and it makes it hard to get motivated to hunt Western Ma. Three days for the Ohio opener. 40 deer seen between 4 people. 4 deer killed. 2 bucks over 130 inches, and 2 does. Second week of November. 3 guys, 73 deer seen. 2 bucks killed. Some places are just deer paradises. New England isn't one of those places.
I was planning on 100% being there, but with the snow I might be clearing snow. Can't say no to money. We'll see what happens with the storm. I'd really like to go.
I got an e-mail with a snow date on it.
I can't make the meeting but I sent Susan Sacco a nice email in support.
rescheduled notice on mass.gov site: Rescheduled — Due to the forecasted storm, the March 7 public hearing to extend the archery deer season in eastern Massachusetts has been rescheduled for April 10 at 7 p.m. at the MassWildlife Field Headquarters, 1 Rabbit Hill Road, Westborough, MA. Read more.
But i emailed Susan as well MRW to voice my support
