Show me the $$$$$$
Wisconsin
Where's the money going to come from? Its amazing how fast hunter participation has dropped.
Sad reality. Hunters fund wildlife, not bird watchers, hikers, PETA or HSUS.
The price is likely to go up for those that are left . The man with small means is further away from a quality experience than ever . The man that wants to just put a few toes in or hunt a few days a year is further away from a quality experience than ever . Everything is big-time . How you going to change that ?
IMO one of the biggest reasons we lose hunters is loss of access to quality hunting ground. I know this, but like many I have no answer outside of buying your own dirt.
Rut, while I do agree with you, I still must add that we do have a fair amount of available hunting land. Even in countries where all lands are private, hunting has still managed to survive. But, and this goes to Jim's point, it will become tougher and tougher for the average guy to find a place to hunt. No easy answer that I am aware of.
Its dieing slowly . The midwest & deep south will be islands of hunting shortly .
When I moved to NV I held a meeting with all 68 of my employees . I introduced myself & asked how many of them were going to be hunting opening day of Muledeer aeason next week . 3 raised their hands .
At certain social gatherings you had to keep your mouth shut about hunting .
Its headed our way .
We will see..... I am a big proponent for user fees, as long as that where the money is..... Here is an example... Currently all boating training, education, and equipment, etc comes from a fund by the registration fees, of boats. That is why they ask now, for registration, on non motorized boats................. even up to 10 years ago, not much on non motorized boats but now go to boat landings, and the kayak craze, is on going, getting a free ride, on the others expense......
Rescues etc, have gone up big time, on non motorized boats, because so much of the population is out on the water on them, so now they are thinking, they will have to anty up some,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you will see that question, on the spring hearings........
I know a lot of bird watchers, myself included, but non hunters I know, fail to appreciate the state woods, and everything, that is being paid for, by hunters and trappers dollars,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I tell them this all the time....................
Everyone should kick in................... Wisconsin is unique, there is a lot of hunter access, if one really wants to find it, and its not hard.................. Quality is how you make it, this state is filled with areas to have a quality hunt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
As we all are aware the number of people hunting is declining and I feel certain someone could write a full length book on the reasons for the decline. Were I the author my number one reason would be that for many it is not so much fun anymore.
IMO it is not so much fun when you are driving home with a deer on your vehicle and some animal lover gives you the finger.
..........when you show pictures of your buck and then hear, "you should have given him one more year."
..........when your hunting buddies seem less involved and begin to drift away from hunting.
..........when those camp traditions fade and you seem to be the only one who gives a damm.
..........when a great deal of what you thought you knew about the field experience is changing and there isn't much you can do about it.
..........when one of your game cameras, or a stand, mysteriouslydisappears.
..........when you have to patrol and guard your property against those who fail to respect boundaries.
..........when your favorite pro-shop or sporting goods store closes their doors.
..........when the trails get longer, the hills higher, and you begin to realize the call of the wild has taken a toll.
And I am certain the list could go on and on ad nauseam.....
(Apologies to MF for taking a off beat tangent, for some reason this is where my thoughts went when I read this thread.)
quite the article and good posts but? Overall he paints a level view but only a guy from CA would visit a camp the last day of the season and this is the norm of WI hunting? In our camp he would have been invited the second Monday.. I like he's writing that sportsman not game "watchers" fund wildlife programs and is probably his point to his state. On the dnr personnel positions dwindling its pretty clear that our Gov is sapping that so this isn't a revelation.
Our "target audience" is the younger people in our State. Rut makes a good point but for many young people - buying their own dirt is not and will not be an option for many years down the road.
When I was a kid - we hunted all day and walked and never worried about trespass. RR tracks were the best for bunnies and frozen cattail marshes held good numbers of pheasants.
Our insistent pursuit of BIG deer/Horns and "would have been a nice one next year" mentality doesn't help.
The lack of people involving themselves in the mentoring program also effects us.
It sucks!
Good article. Groundhunter and Casekiska summed up my feelings. Not much more for me to add.
Casekiska.. No apologies needed
Case - Exactly my thoughts.
There are so many reasons why hunter participation is down its hard to really find the lynch pin. Overall I'd say it boils down to 1) instant gratification and 2) disconnection from the land.
Video games, text messaging, cable tv or streaming services, FB, ect.... give people a sense of instant gratification in one way or another. I see this urban, suburban and rural areas. Emphasizing getting the monster buck has taken the joy away because too many think that's the only kind of hunting but as mentioned above, have forgotten how fun squirrel, rabbit and bird hunting it.
With more people spending times indoors, working primarily in offices and retail there seems to be a disconnection from the resources of the land and what it can do for us. The sense of satisfaction when something is taken from the landed be it a warm ripe tomato, crisp apple, fresh maple syrup or a fat doe.
Just my 2 cents.....
The current bad publicity firearms are getting in the media and political posturing are a definite detrimental force within the non "hunting" community.
^ Yeah that ain't helping any either. My dear wife is being persuaded by such.
Good post and good replies, I think Tweed hit the nail on the head with "instant gradification". It is so true in many different aspects of life now, not just hunting.
"A new study by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service shows that today, only about 5 percent of Americans, 16 years old and older, actually hunt. That's half of what it was 50 years ago and the decline is expected to accelerate over the next decade "
Maybe we can apply for minority status.
Strange how with this rapid decline it keeps getting harder and harder to draw out of state tags. I wonder if this hunter decline is something like global warming...?
So this thread got me curious so I checked out some of the metrics. What happened around 2008/09?
Truth of the matter is if this trend is for real, then what difference will it make??? All of us who participate in blood sports will be dead and gone and the generation we leave behind will either be sleeping in the bed they made (Not supporting conservation through license sales) or not know what they're missing in the first place (because they choose not to hunt for whatever reasons). If they (the up and coming generation) don't care enough to get into hunting then they won't care if there's such a thing as conservation that supports hunting. It will only change when it MATTERS TO THEM...and we can beat our heads against a rock the rest of our lives naming the multitude of reasons it doesn't matter to them! Enjoy it while it lasts..
Here is on thing I have seen in my family and friends family's. My two boys had no time to hunt and or fish, almost acted gut shot when I would try to get them to go. Now, one is 30 years old and can't wait to gun deer hunt and to ice fish. The 20 year old is starting to do the same. These same things have happened to a couple of my friends also who could not get there kids to go. Just a thought.
Tweed-I found this from DNR concerning 2009 harvest. "This fall, wildlife staff indicated that they expected lower total harvest numbers - especially antlerless deer harvest numbers - due to several factors including lower deer numbers in many areas of the state, fewer herd control units and no earn-a-buck units outside of the chronic wasting disease management zone."
Also..."There was pretty dense fog until 10-11:00 a.m. opening morning," reported Kris Belling DNR West Central Region wildlife expert. "The fog coupled with wet conditions, made it hard to hear anything coming and definitely impacted the morning hunt. Hunters I talked to (in West Central Region) enjoyed the mild temperatures and it was comfortable enough for them to stay out hunting, and that seems to have offset the original difficulties due to the fog. Overall, it was just a nice week-end to be out. Lots of interest in getting the deer butchered quickly."
Too warm and lots of fog on opening weekend according to this report. IMHO, the weather was not a primary factor because this also was about the time that all the aggressive antlerless harvests over the past seasons started to really put a dent in the population. Then a few winters later... winter got real ugly in back to back years. Throw in some wolves in the north, too and harvests look nothing like the pre 2009 harvests.
Freddie, too bad your mind was not as fast as your mouth.
We are still only at 62% of the 2006 levels. Is it from lack of participation or lack of herd population?
If you want to play with the numbers yourself take a look. http://dnr.wi.gov/wideermetrics/DeerStats.aspx
Looks like we're at about 2006 level herd population but mid 1980s harvest totals.
Another factor is I bet most of us weren't straddled with $100k in student loans...which cuts into the old extracurricular activities. It blows my mind how broke kids are these days compared to when I went to school. Self-inflicted debt or not it has to play into why they can't/aren't participating in the field.
Although awful tragedies with these school shootings, these school walk outs have been a big bonus for the anti hunters and there agendas to put a end to hunting etc.
Lots of good thoughts here. I also think complex and ever changing game laws take some of the fun and tradition out of it. Constant changing of units, rules, complex and lengthy draws make hunt plans somewhat difficult. In many states such as Montana regulations have become a complex booklet rather than a simple to understand pamphlet. CWD testing is another step. CWD health concerns are turning off some hunters and their spouses from eating venison and serving it to children and friends. Use to be people asked for some venison meat, not as much today. Venison went from being the all natural and low in fat healthy choice, to a potential but unproven carrier of a serious disease(CWD). That bothers many people whether it turns out to be fact or fiction. For all the reasons in this thread, I see no upside potential.
South Farm nailed it. Who cares if the next generation is not interested so be it. That's on them not me. I am looking forward to all the lease land that will open up when the baby boomers get put in the ground.
MO, I think you hit a major issue with CWD. Our own Fish and Game departments have done their best to scare the hell out of the public.
Here's my answer. Kids have changed. Parents have changed. In my opinion, what recruits hunters is the need for flesh. We spend far more to kill an animal, than the return on the investment. Today's kids are far more satisfied by being popular on social media than by posing with big horns. Notice I said big horns? That's because parents unknowingly push their ideology on their kids. When I was young, it was a great day if you killed a buck. A little fork horn was today's 150 incher, and today's 150 incher is still small in the professional hunter's eye. Lee and Tiffany want their bucks to reach 5 years now, pass great deer that these potential hunters watch on T.V., and feel perhaps they're not as good of a hunter for taking a lesser deer? Can you imagine being a kid, used to instant gratification in the form of a smartphone, and hunt several years and not pull back the bow, because that deer wasn't worthy? BORING! Hell, sometimes I get itchy finger, and I've killed plenty.
We don't recruit, because today's kids don't care as much as we did. We had pong. They have virtual reality video games, play online with like-minded people. An interesting thing has happened. More and more kids are saying they don't have a best friend. We played tag, ding dong ditch, baseball or a pickup game of kickball. Kids today don't do that. They have far greater choices, and we parents did that. We GAVE them everything. They EARN very little. Kids have changed for sure, but parents changed right along with them.
What will make recruitment rise, is when people become hungry. Not that long ago, people hunted for the bounty of flesh and not the fame of horn. We don't recruit, because we're selfish. We don't want to sacrifice our time, sacrifice our up and comer deer, sacrifice our deer woods to small game hunting. The reasons are many, but it isn't getting better.
As a parent, I parented nothing like my folks. My kids have the best hunting ground to hunt. Plenty of game. Ton of success. Nope, they don't hunt. If they don't hunt, with every opportunity available, then those kids without the opportunity stand no chance. I can't find a kid to mentor. I thoroughly enjoy teaching, and there's no one out there? Have I taken an ad out on Craigslist? No, but I've made it very clear to all the people I know, and quite frankly, kids aren't interested like I was. It's sad, but it's true.
CWD is a big deterrent for some. It affects how and where an animal can be processed, hunted, mounted, transported across state and even county lines etc. This scares hunters and the public. Not saying I have better answers, but there are much less complicated and cheaper ways to get a piece of steak. Major negative IMO.
Good post pete-pec, and very, very true in many cases.
Round of applause for Pete!
Cheesehead Mike - Although hunter numbers are declining as a whole I think the percentage of those remaining that are the diehard, 100% all in, 12 month a year lifestyle type is increasing. Applying for dozens of tags throughout the west has never been easier with the internet and credit cards. There has never been as much information out there or application services as there is now. More and more guys that are really into it and can afford it are applying for just about every hard to draw tag in the west these days covering 12+ states and like you said, that number is growing which is contradictive to the overall decline in hunter numbers.
Good post Pete! Very well said!
I have just kind of stood on the sidelines for sometime and just read but not contributed anything because as soon as someone doesn't agree with the majority you push that person around until they leave. This whole thread is the definition of hypocrisy. You complain that people aren't getting into hunting but if someone were to pick gun or crossbow as a hunter you immediately belittle that person for their weapon of choice. So which it is? Do you really want more people to pick up hunting? Or is it that if they choose compound bow then its ok?
I can see how one would view it on a surface level as hypocrisy but look a little deeper.
It's not that people are 100% anti crossbow, its that they don't feel the need for the crossbow to have as long as a season for young, healthy hunters. Many probably feel that having a nearly 4 month crossbow season is the same as the society of convenience and instant gratification we have today.
I see very few people having a problem with the gun season other than some gripes around the metros but I think that has more to do with having to continue wearing blaze. Some don't like the youth weekend but I think the majority support the youth weekend.
brewcrewmike, I don't know that others will give an honest answer, but I will. No I do not want a huge influx of hunters. I want the right kind of new hunters. Maybe that sounds elitist or whatever, but it's how I feel. It's no different than a company needing employees. We all want honest, hardworking "employees". No one wants the lazy, do just enough types.
Full_Curl, I agree with your theory.
By coincidence, I happened to listen to this story on public radio last night and I thought they did a pretty good job with it...
Another thought that came to mind is that if only 5% of Americans hunt it seems pretty amazing that we have been able to maintain our gun rights as long as we have. Obviously there are more gun owners than there are hunters but if there is any correlation between the two groups it seems that the writing is on the wall for the future of both hunting and gun ownership...
Rut, you want the right kind of hunters? Accoring to who? You? Tell me what exactly is the right kind of hunter? Maybe we can do vetting of hunters and only allows those who want to shoot Mathews compound bows, with Maxima Red arrows, and Rage broadheads. You must be able to hunt every cold front in September, October, and December. You must also be in the woods morning to evening each and every day of the rut. Must also sign document with applicable fines to only shoot 8s and better.
You asked, I answered. Not my fault if you can't handle honesty. Not everything in life has to be fair or easy for everyone. That's not how life works, you don't get participation trophies.
They added crossbows to the archery season a few seasons back and looks like they are here to stay. Not my fault if you can't handle honesty. Not everything in life has to be fair or easy for everyone. That's not how life works, you don't get participation trophies.
It amazes me how many cross gunners come to a bowsite and try to get a participation trophy.
According to published Wisconsin statistics, crossbows have done very little to recruit new hunters. I am all for crossbows, but not during the real bow season, except for those with specific medical requirements. Nevertheless, crossbows are here for those desiring an easier way than bowhunting. Crossbow users are crossbow hunters, NOT bowhunters.
Looks like I may ask the boys in India to do some searching again on FF and where he is from and how many handles. Not sure if Mars is accessible to them but we shall see...
Freddie deserves to be recognized as an adult after he learns to spell. I am thinking it will be a while.
Brewcrew, this is an archery site. The only belittling I see here is when guys like you and Freddie try and inject a crossbow or a firearm into the archery season. What did you expect from people on an archery site? LOL!
CaptMike you hit it on the head. I just don't understand why they come on this site.
I agree with CaptMike. I think FF needs an English teacher. By the way, what is the issue with food plots? They help to keep the herd healthy. Especially standing corn and beans in the winter. I don't think a lot of people realize the amount of time and effort it takes to establish, plant, and maintain good food plots.
Time for a hall monitor to reach out to Pat. This site had a really nice stretch of good posts and respectful bantor. If I want this kind of noise and immaturity, I should teach fifth graders. Oh wait...I do.
Who dropped the Ball ? The archery deer hunt now is a wood arrow at 150 fps or it can be a bolt at 400 fps . It's a ground hunt where you have no ideal where you will set up or it's a hunt where your cameras and year around scouting tells you where to set up . So it's Everything you could want . We can not change anything more to attract or beg people . We need to survive without
I didn't come here looking for a participation trophy and I still stand by my first post. Go back and read most of the posts in this thread. Then read what I wrote again. If you want more hunters to join the sport to help put more dollars in, what does it matter what they choose to hunt for or hunt with? If while hunting those hunters are following the rules and regulations then it shouldn't matter.
Yes, I know my support for people to have free choice of their weapon seems to bother the large majority of you but look around. Deer hunting numbers are on the decline and all you want to do is argue over what weapon we should be allowed to use/when. How does that help introduce new hunters to the sport? How does that get people who used to hunt back into the sport? How do you get more women into the sport?
I like blowing stuff up and lots of people like blowing stuff up....maybe we can get a claymore season?
Brewcrew said, "Deer hunting numbers are on the decline and all you want to do is argue over what weapon we should be allowed to use/when. How does that help introduce new hunters to the sport?" Let's turn this around. After three years of a crossbow season, why don't you show us how having this season has contributed to hunter numbers?
Just because I don't want to go back and forth, I'll answer for you. It has not. It has done nothing to bring new hunters to the sport of hunting.
Next...
Tweed good one. Its funny after cross gunners lie at hearings then they want to stick together. Sorry not gonna happen.
brewcrew mike..... Both my boys archery hunt and my daughter likes to fish and shoot. My son in law (35 years old) shot his first deer with gun with me. He just bought his first bow and will be shooting league and bow hunting with me . My three grandkids have started limited shooting with the bow and sit with me some days when I hunt. I will be working a kids booth to encourage archery at the expo. Im doing what I can do to encourage hunting. What are you doing besides telling everyone that we have to accept cross gunners.
Buckmaster, have we not seen a higher crossbow harvest over the past several years? Isn't that what you all are complaining about? Bottom line - I don't care what weapon someone choses to harvest an animal. I don't care what that person deems a trophy. I don't care what walk of life they come from. If they play by the rules, come out in the woods and enjoy your time. It's sad that people have to choose their words carefully around here. It's too bad that people belittle others who have a different opinion.
Buckmaster, my son is only 3 so I have taken him fishing a few times but he's still a little too young for sits in the woods. I take him to parks and up north, we talk about the animals and trees we see but you are limited in what you can teach a 3 year old. I am hoping one day he enjoys the outdoors as much as his mom and I do. Please keep doing the things you are doing. I think it's great you encourage archery at the expo. Get more kids off the tv/video games and into fishing or hunting! My brother has 3 kids, I've taken the two older ones fishing but the one is a newborn but we'll get him out there too. So yes, my time is spent in the outdoors and I use my time out there to teach my son and nephews. Just as you have I spend time with my family in the outdoors.
brewcrew mike....First offf its not complaining its stating facts. Unlike cross gunners who lied thru their teeth at hearings and meetings. Its heavy, its a short range weapon and its hard to get a shot off. Its hard to get a doctors permit to shoot a cross gun. I never seen such liars in my life. Oh .... and the best one it will bring more hunters into hunting. I myself don't care if someone baits , has food plots or shoots a 4 pointer. But.... I do care about having a superior weapon during the archery season. Cross gunners said it would not affect the buck kill. more lies
Pretty strong "I never seen such liars in my life". Ever met any politicians?
I don't post much and you have furthered my point. Just because I don't agree with you, we can't have a constructive conversation because your right and I'm wrong. You seem to have all the cross gunners looped into one giant group of liars and cheats. Hopefully, you get the chance to meet some of these hunters because I know a few and they are actually contrary to popular opinion around here, really great people.
lets just cut thru all the BS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The x bow issue is over the rut PERIOD...... and on April 9th, we will see who shows up, and votes on it, either way...... I believe the NRB will act on whatever decision is made, this season.....................
brewcrew mike ....I can telll you did not attend meetings or hearings other wise you would understand my position. Yes ...I don't trust any politicians. Yes... I do know hunters who use a cross gun. Most are 65 or 70 years old. I have a question for you. What happens to the archery and cross gun season when the buck kill keeps going up?
Brewcrew, thanks for affirming my point for me. That you choose to ignore the FACT that crossbows have not done anything to increase hunter participation speaks volumes more than you could have typed. And, I agree with Buckmaster, you obviously have no idea of what transpired during the hearings and meeting leading up to this farce of a season that includes crossbows during the rut. However, that has not stopped you from adding your two cents. Of course you are entitled to that but the content is what gives you away. And no, complaining about other people being pushed around does not automatically make you immune to it. Content matters.
It is the xgunners that are the greedy ones. They want to use a gun during archery season. They are certainty not caring about equality or the handicapped when they took their season away from them. Disgusting .
Wow, yet another thread with hunters bashing other hunters. Who needs anti's a few of you are doing all their work for them. Be proud of yourselves.
Sorry HunterR, all out of group hugs.
Hunter R we are not bashing hunters just wanna be archers
Conspiracy theory- anti's supported crossbow legislation.
I think the Hunterrr needs a bit of morale and esteem booster. Group hugs can be therapeutic and are needed by some.
Not bashing just the truth spoken here on this bow hunting site. I think the trap shooters are on their site, The fisherman are on their site, the rifle hunters are on their site, the ice fishermen are complaining because their season is to cold & they can't cast as far as the fair weather fishermen. Almost everyone is where they belong & leaving the places that they are not wanted. Life is good. Now, lets get back to golf.
"It is the xgunners that are the greedy ones. They want to use a gun during archery season." This isnt the first time greed has reared its ugly head in this sport and made things way easier. Remember when the girlie bows with wheels, cables, and high let off were introduced? :>)
Can hunters not disagree on the issues of the day? Insinuating we have to walk lock step like blind sheep is like saying back when all my G.I. buddies were hitting the vill at night getting herpes that I should've went with 'em. Fact is we all hunt with different types of weapons and for a multitude of reasons...and while we may agree on some issues we don't have to agree on them all.
Kumbaya my Lord Kumbaya......
retro, nice of you show up and parade your ignorance once again. History has proven that wheel bows have had no noticeable affect on the percentage of bucks taken during the archery season. Not true for the crossbow as these first three years have shown us. Thanks for playing...
Stick bows, Xbows, compounds, how one hunts, arguments, what's better, what's not etc. I'm just hoping I can get out and walk in the woods this coming year and not rely on someone else.
Shoot yourself with a crossbow?
Hope you mend up well.
"History has proven that wheel bows have had no noticeable affect on the percentage of bucks taken during the archery season." LOL!!!!!!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! Yeah compound bows arent any easier than stick bows. If everyone that uses a compound bow would switch to a stick bow, there would be no noticeable difference in the buck kill. Ha! Ha! Ha! LOL! That has to be the dumbest thing you have ever said. Capt, Why do you use a compound over a stick bow? Let me guess? To make it more challenging... :>)
Don't go away mad. Just go away.
Someone suggested HB guys stay off this site? Dayum this would be a ghost town.
Retro, another grand display of your ignorance. Look no further than past totals, if you are able to count past ten without taking off your shoes. By the way, how do you know what I hunt with? Of course, another example of your ignorance, on display.
how do you know what I hunt with?
Capt, You posted a couple pics containing compound bows and animals from Africa. I distinctly remember the baboon pic because of the strong resemblance.....:>)
Retro, another example of your overflowing ignorance. I also hunt with rifles, shotguns, muzzle loaders and pellet guns. However you try and bolster your self-esteem with your recurve claim is more than erased by your lack of intelligence. Headed to Africa tomorrow so stand by for more pics.
Capt, The recurve got brought up because you assumed I was a crossbow hunter. When you made that assumption, you were being "ignorant" by your own definition. Sorry about that. :>)
Good luck in Africa! What time in the morning do they open the gates at the enclosure? :>)
Sorry Capt. but your statement that compounds have had no noticeable effect on the buck kill is false.
During the past 60 years, there has been a gradual shift in how and when antlered deer are killed. In the last decade, about 30% or more of the total antlered deer harvest occurred using archery or crossbow. The percentage of archery/crossbow antlered harvest began to accelerate in the 1980s. The two most likely influences on this trend occurred shortly after compound bows became popular and hunting from an elevated platform became legal.
"Hunter R we are not bashing hunters just wanna be archers"
I'm pretty sure that people who choose to legally pursue deer with a crossbow are considered hunters by every definition of the word. Nice job on yet another well thought out post buckmaster69.
Accelerate to what? Vertical archers and gun hunters share very similar buck kill rates while crossbows are noticeably higher. Your comprehension does not seem to be too good.
"Capt, The recurve got brought up because you assumed I was a crossbow hunter." Sorry Retro, I have never assumed anything about you. However, I do know about you. I know you talk often with no thought behind your words. I know you have no regard for the long term health of hunting in WI from your reckless comments regarding a superior weapon in a primitive season. I know you are jealous of those who venture beyond their county in their hunting adventures. Fear not, I will post some pics for you. Other than that, I know you are easily amused by drawing little smiley faces with your keyboard. But, I never assume what you do in the dark corners of your basement.
" I know you have no regard for the long term health of hunting in WI from your reckless comments regarding a superior weapon in a primitive season."
Sorry Capt. but this is where your delusional. We have had superior weapons in what started out as a primitive season for a long time. The train wreck started a long time ago. Your high tech compound is why we ended up where we are today. Sorry. Dont preach to me about regard for Wisconsin bowhunting when your a member of the 85% let off club. I support your right to use one, but understand that no one is going to listen to you bitching about technology moving forward and ruining the sport. You took the easy out, and now another group is taking an easier way out. Pot meet kettle. Oh, I almost forgot... :>)
But not delusional on the other points? LOL, you are simple.
I can just deal with the truth. You are one of many who cant.
Maybe I am way off base, but this is just something I have noticed..i think the youth deer season in October has hurt more than helped. I took several kids on it and talked to others that did the same. Seems like they all wanted to hold out and shoot a buck. I had a couple kids that wanted to pass easy shots at mature does because they wanted to wait for a buck. this created a generation of hunters that shot a lot of nice bucks without having to do any of the work to kill one, and in turn made them appreciate it less and kept less interest. when I was a kid my first deer was a fawn and i was absolutely thrilled to take that animal, and when I finally killed my first buck I definitely appreciated it more than a lot of kids that went out in October with a gun, in a blind their dad set up, on a buck he had 100s of pictures of, hitting a food plot he planted for this particular deer. also, the kids who didn't kill a huge buck right away saw all their friends that did and got discouraged and quit. people can say that the youth hunt was a tool to recruit but I think it hurt more than helped. just my 2 cents.
grindersonly, I agree with you 100%. But kids now days are soft and want everything NOW. They don't appreciate the journey, they only want the destination.
Although intended to be good, I believe hunting shows & videos have done more harm than good.
I think you make a valid point...... My daughter is 29 now, but when we started I never needed any special time or seasons for her,,, we went out together, and had a great time, and all the hunts, were focused for her, not me, heck most hunts I did not even have a weapon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I think changing the turkey season another week, because of weather, was another indication of the babying of our youth. Truth be told, its not the kids, that bring this on, is the parents and grandparents, who worry too much..... Heck the average kid, just wants to go, he is tougher than you think.............
Give the kids more credit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I’ve said it 100 times. When hunting became a industry rather than a sport it is what brought us deer farmers and shooters rather than hunters.
Kids today are soft and we coddle that further by giving them special seasons in warm weather. Some of the days that I remember most hunting as a youth with my dad were absolutely brutal for the clothing we had back then.
Guys I agree to some of your points. I think the youth hunt should just be for the first two years when they start hunting. With changing the youth hunt for turkey I think it was done thru the CC hearings. I believe it was voted on and it passed. Some may get mad but I think it was a mistake to let youth buy licenses before hunters safety and 12 years old.
My serious big buck deer mentor, was my age, but a vast more experienced in killing big bucks, in the big northwoods. Even Mike Steliga from Bruin bows was impressed with Gary, who was buying a bow from him, ,,,,,,,,, Gary and I sent to the first Deer Classic in Wisconsin together, in the 80's...... Gary enjoyed Rothar and Keller and Fratzke, and wenzel, but truth be told, they were not telling him much, but one thing did stick in my mind.......
Gary said "they are going to now turn deer hunting into a circus", its all going to change now,,,,,,, better buy land, because good public land is going to be ruined" He also use to advise, when hunting big bucks, "keep your mouth shut" and honor the buck not yourself............... Gary never went to another show.....................
As he left Bayfield county in the early 90's, he said time to get out,,,,, guides, baiting, atvs, and once he saw deer farming, he just rolled his eyes..............
Retired today, living in SW Wisconsin, with a wall of so many big bucks your eyes would roll, he was way ahead of his time...... he believed in scouting, and was a wind expert
He said, in the end, money and fake fame will change this great sport and tradition, we know as bowhunting....... He always said, its not the weapon, but the hunter behind that weapon, that makes it a great sport
I totally disagree, you can make it as easy on the kids as you want, but if you do then you are the one to blame. Dont blame the season for what adults do. I have mentored for 5 years straight now and by no means do I make it easy. Rain, cold, wind and no sightings have all been a part of it. No shacks over food plots for me mentoring. The child helps build a debris ground blind and that is what we hunt out of. We have had years with nothing and years of success. But one thing holds true "they all want to come back again". So I suggest you teach them, not baby them. Dont spoil them to hold out for that "big buck". Teach them right and there is a good chance they will stick with it. My first grandson that I mentored will be bowhunting this year. Make me proud and makes me feel like I did my job.
the kids who hunted the youth hunt and stuck with hunting would have been hunters anyway...even without the youth hunt IMO. Trout, im sure you were a great mentor and taught him the right way, but honestly do you think without the youth hunt he wouldn't have ended up a hunter? just a serious question.
grindersonly, You could very well be right. I cant argue that point. Maybe I am a little bias because it is two days out of the season that the woods are not crowded and I can spend some quality time with the grandkids. I dont get to see them often and we have a blast. I didnt support the rule changes this year, but I do support the weekend hunt.
These are also times the kids will never forget, the will remember hunting with grandpa long after I am gone. To me thats what it is all about. The more days in the woods the better.
We had a general hunting season open to everyone. Anyone who wants to participate can. Parents and mentors could always take kids hunting. The difference being without the "special" hunt, you had to sacrifice your own time to do it. Maybe the fact that we "need" special seasons for kids says more about the adults than it does the kids.
I knew this was coming next. I still sacrifice my time to do the "special hunt". Its a two day hunt designed to get kids out hunting. Does it work? It does for my family and I am sure it does for others. Just like all things, some may take advantage of it, for dads,moms or mentors to do the wrong thing. Why is it such a problem that the kids get a" two day" season to themselves with a mentor? Is it they might shoot your deer? If you think it is more for the adults than the kids Im sorry you feel this way. I strive to make it enjoyable for them, but not easy. I think it is a great hunting program. I have 6 grandchildren, 3 of them participate and 3 dont, all of which is their choice.
Trout, I completely understand it, and I think getting kids into the woods is great especially when guys can use it to create memories and have quality time with their children and grand children. I was just pointing out that I don't think it was a successful tool as far as new recruits goes. I hope I didn't come off as a dead hearted guy that doesn't care about making memories and stuff..i totally didn't mean it that way.
Agree with retro and his post. Setting a priority above your own is part of the lesson, and perhaps the most important part!
xtroutx, It doesnt affect me. The "special" season didnt create any opportunities that werent already there. If it wasnt for the special deer season, what was stopping you from taking your grand kids small game hunting? I have 5 grand kids myself. We recreate year round outdoors doing all sorts of things. Our time together isnt dictated by a calendar date/time thing. The whole "special" season thing is a feel good drama. If somebody needs it as an excuse to spend outdoor time with kids, then they are kidding themselves. With kids, a love of the outdoors should come first. Everyone is trying to shortcut their kids to the killing right off the bat. Typical of our society. Instant gratification....
Grindersonly, I understand completely what you are say. Last couple coments of mine were more directed to other replies. Retro and Missouri seem to think because it is a "special hunt" your "time" is not invested. I don't gun hunt and haven't in years, I also dont bowhunt during gun season, so all I am lossing out on for myself is the time I spent during the youth hunt. So with that being said,I find it hard to understand what the meaning of "setting a priority above your own" really means. My priority is to get the kids out and hope they enjoy it enough to be a future hunter and carry on a tradition I was fortunate to have as a child. I find it hard to believe that some would think this is wrong or somehow selfish.
Reto, we were typing at the same time.lol. You being a father that has your kids at home make it alot easier than someone whose grandchildren are hours away. This is one time of year eched in stone with them for me. I do some shooting,scouting and other outdoor things when they are around. Nothing stops me for taking one during regular season and I do when they are available.
retro, I reread your post and stand corected, you did say grandkids not kids, sorry. I still am all in favor of a 2 day youth season. Going to celebrate easter with family now. I said how I fell, and I will leave this thread alone.
