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Sickle cell trait
Colorado
Contributors to this thread:
BuzAL 24-Mar-18
Longcruise 24-Mar-18
Paul@thefort 24-Mar-18
BuzAL 25-Mar-18
Longcruise 25-Mar-18
Treeline 25-Mar-18
BuzAL 25-Mar-18
BuzAL 25-Mar-18
BuzAL 25-Mar-18
BuzAL 25-Mar-18
BuzAL 25-Mar-18
swampokie 25-Mar-18
swampokie 25-Mar-18
Treeline 25-Mar-18
ryanrc 04-Apr-18
Aspen Ghost 08-Apr-18
wkochevar 08-Apr-18
BuzAL 11-Apr-18
From: BuzAL
24-Mar-18
How do folks in the mountains (that have to deal with this) handle altitude? How dangerous is it for visitors?

Even with an Internet it seems hard to get more than bits of info on this subject.

From: Longcruise
24-Mar-18
Straining the brain here. I only remember a bit about it from a college bio class. How does it effect the ability of cells to carry oxygen? I thought it created an iron deficiency.

From: Paul@thefort
24-Mar-18
Google, Sickle cell and high Altitude. Lots of info there that might answer your question. It seem there is a higher risk above 6,000 ft elevation for issues arising. Paul

From: BuzAL
25-Mar-18
Best I can describe what I understand about it - the blood cells are more likely to sickle (change shape) at altitude because lower air pressure isn't keeping them "plumped up". The sickle-shaped cells may inhibit correct blood flow.

I'm hoping to hear some real-world experience. For instance, googling shows me nothing about acclimation related to this. Makes me think its N/A. I haven't seen any numbers (such as 6000', and how long?) either.

Guess I'm hoping to hear from black elk hunters. (Surely there ARE some)

From: Longcruise
25-Mar-18
There certainly are some but it's gonna be hard to find one with sickle cell.

I wasn't aware that the cells could change shape. I thought that the ones that were sickle shape were that way from the get go and stayed in the same shape.

From: Treeline
25-Mar-18
There are definitely black elk hunters! Dr. Warren Strickland comes immediately to mind - he has bow hunted all over the world. I think he is still in Huntsville, AL and is a cardiologist. Great guy with a wealth of hunting experience.

I looked up some of the stuff on line and it actually sounds like some pretty serious issues can occur with sickle cell at altitude. Might be worth contacting Dr. Strickland with regard to sickle cell issues at altitude.

After living up at 10,200' in Leadville for many years and working at 11,500' in my office at the Climax Mine, I have seen a lot of issues with how altitude affects different people. It definitely seems to exacerbate any health related issues and can happen rapidly.

I also lived and worked in Peru for three years at even higher altitudes and actually got pretty severe altitude sickness after spending several days above 14,000' when I had a cold. It can be life threatening and can be even worse with something like sickle cell that can limit your oxygen assimilation.

Good luck!

From: BuzAL
25-Mar-18
I know Dr. Strickland, have shot 3D with him. Been a while, though. Can't believe I didn't think to give him a call. Good tip!

And FYI- sickle cell "trait" isn't the same as sickle cell "anemia". I think anemia can develop in people with the trait.

I also think two parents with the trait will have anemic kids. Its one of the things a pre-marriage blood test is for. I think.

From: BuzAL
25-Mar-18
Found this from an actual study -

"The risk of altitude-induced hypoxemia causing painful crisis was determined in a group of 45 predominantly adult patients with sickle cell disease. The patients were divided into two groups: those with hemoglobin (Hb) SS and those with Hb SC or Hb S ?-thalassemia. Altitude exposures were divided into airplane travel and mountain visits, and the latter subdivided into stays at 4,400 or 6,320 ft. The average risk of crisis was higher for both groups while in the mountains (37.9 percent and 56.6 percent, respectively) than it was during airplane travel (10.8 percent and 13.5 percent, respectively). The latter group had more splenic crises than the former group and also had a greater risk at 6,320 ft (65.9 percent) than at 4,400 ft (20.0 percent). Patients with sickle cell disease are at high risk of crisis in the mountains, and we advise those with intact spleens to breathe supplemental oxygen during air travel."

But "disease" is not "trait". That's the trouble I'm having getting info.

From: BuzAL
25-Mar-18
Oh crap, y'all. This is out there, too. From a study of studies -

"Variability in the clinical severity of sickle cell diseases is often genetically determined.... It is intriguing, however that reported associations of sickle cell trait and splenic infarction have occurred exclusively in males and mostly in whites."

Check, and check, she ain't neither. May get to do this after all.

From: BuzAL
25-Mar-18
Since most cases of altitude-associated splenic infarction are in people with no prior knowledge that they have SCT -

"is also essential to promote preventive measures for individuals with African or Mediterranean ancestry know their sickle cell status before traveling to places above 2,500 m."

Seems a good idea for all high-altitude hunters to know their status so they can alert docs of it in case of health troubles.

From: BuzAL
25-Mar-18
"Splenic infarction at altitude corresponding to different circumstances can evolve in three stages: a) Acute (focal, uncomplicated), b) massive attack (more than 50% of parenchyma) and c) spontaneous rupture.Early diagnosis is crucial, allowing the quick and timely introduction of various measures, including adequate hydration and oxygenation continues until its evacuation to lower altitude locations. These measures would reduce the phenomenon of sickle and some patients may overcome this acute trance without major complications. The delay in diagnosis leads to action that can exacerbate tissue hypoxia and cause ischemia or infarction of various organs. A large population of black and mixed race of African descent living in the Peruvian coast, 10% and 2% respectively have hemoglobin S; Caucasian subjects with Mediterranean ancestry this hemoglobin also can carry. It is therefore essential to disseminate within the clinicians working in regions of high status and to thus prevent potentially fatal complications in patients"

From: swampokie
25-Mar-18
Wow

From: swampokie
25-Mar-18
Wow

From: Treeline
25-Mar-18
Interesting.

Have personally had several incidents with people working at high altitude that ended up in the hospital with major complications with internal organs - spleen, liver, lungs - and were told by their doctors to not come back up there for work.

They were Caucasian as well.

From: ryanrc
04-Apr-18
Lots of pulmonary hypertension if you get up high enough. Like 10,000 feet and up. I was talking to an anesthesiologist the other day who lived and worked in Breckinridge for a bit and he was telling me the reasons why, but they are long and complicated. Bottom line, people don't do well with substantially less o2 is the air long term. Many SIckle cell professional football players don't play when they come to Denver. That's 5280 ft. Chase an elk at 12k with an underlying condition and you will find out in a hurry how bad that condition really is......from what I understand people with sickle cell are less likely or immune to malaria, hence the incidence with African descendants (the people without it died from malaria.).

Good luck, be safe.

From: Aspen Ghost
08-Apr-18
I found the following info on the CDC website (https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/sicklecell/traits.html) regarding SCT:

"Most people with SCT do not have any symptoms of SCD, although—in rare cases—people with SCT might experience complications of SCD, such as pain crises. In their extreme form, and in rare cases, the following conditions could be harmful for people with SCT:

Increased pressure in the atmosphere (which can be experienced, for example, while scuba diving). Low oxygen levels in the air (which can be experienced, for example, when mountain climbing, exercising extremely hard in military boot camp, or training for an athletic competition). Dehydration (for example, when one has too little water in the body). High altitudes (which can be experienced, for example, when flying, mountain climbing, or visiting a city at a high altitude).

More research is needed to find out why some people with SCT have complications and others do not."

Sounds to me like it is not common for people with SCT to have problems at altitude but is a possibility. I hope your trip to the high country works out BuzAL.

From: wkochevar
08-Apr-18
So Buz are you concerned about hunting at altitude because of a pre-existing condition or are you concerned the altitude will cause a condition? I would bet if you are SCT your doctor can answer all your questions for you...

From: BuzAL
11-Apr-18
The SCT is a feature present in my newest hunting partner. These flat-land docs just blink at you when you ask about altitude.

She hasn't had trouble flying across the country, and isn't worried in the least about heading to CO with me. It's just my problem, at this point. Where I'd like to go back to (the North Park area) would have us staying around 9000'. Maybe this time I'll stay lower for a few days before we go up for our hunting trip.

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