Bowsite.com

https://youtu.be/0KH8qN3anQY

WB is on the move to the next racket. Who counts ovaries in 2018 anymore?

I still think it's just a bad strategy whether the politicians or what not feel it's a good idea. It's a big investment that either has to be continuously performed (since deer can and will relocate) or you are in the same spot every few years.

I dont have a better idea (outside archery hunts in town parks etc, which people would likely freak about and bad interactions would happen)... Maybe nature just takes it's course and every X years or so there is a big die off (yuck) due to disease or something. I dont like that better either...

But man Bob - there is NO DOUBT that a lot of simplification should be done.

"State Department of Conservation does issue permits that, if approved, allow the killing of deer on private property -- Staten Island included. You also don't have to be a government body or homeowner's association to get a permit, virtually anyone can apply. The DEC said city residents can use crossbows to remove deer."

So you're for lethal deer removal and market hunting by anyone other than WB is what I'm gathering. Right?

And even BETTER,....if you want to pay ME $150 to kill a bunch of diseased buggers on Block Island vs paying Tony D from WB $128k to deliver half as many deer, well once again that just makes sense to me.

And neither of these is hunting in my book, but then again we're NOT talking about state land are we Doc? We're talking about unique situations where the landowners get to decide how to eliminate a problem and spend their money, not the government.

Market hunting? I know where the markets are Doc, I don't need to hunt for them. I have Stop and Shop on Queen St, Shop Rite as well, and Price Chopper is right between the two.

6:43 and time for glass Chianti. I deserve it for helping you understand how normal intelligent people view the world.

"A team of biologists led by Paul Curtis, an associate professor and extension wildlife specialist at Cornell, began to closely track changes in the deer population. Initially, the results looked promising: The birth rate went down. Yet the total number of deer remained steady over five years. Something strange was going on.

“Sterilization definitely did decrease fawn numbers, and doe numbers also declined,” Curtis said. “However, these population reductions were offset by increasing buck numbers. There were about 100 deer on campus when we started, and there were still about 100 deer [five years later].”

Something was attracting an abnormal number of mature bucks. Cornell’s biologists realized that the reproductive cycle of the ligated does was to blame.

Under normal conditions, all female whitetails go into heat within several weeks of each other and become pregnant at around the same time. This annual event is called the rut. However, if a doe is not impregnated during the rut, it will enter heat again the following month and again the month after that. Because the ligated does were unable to become pregnant, they continued to produce chemical signals of readiness to reproduce — signals that can attract bucks from miles away."

“Given current deer-control technology, we agree with the recent position statement by the Northeast Section of The Wildlife Society on managing chronically overabundant deer that lethal removal via regulated hunting or shooting currently remains the most effective management option for mitigating negative deer impacts,” Boulanger concluded."

"there was a 38 percent decrease in sightings of adult females, a 79 percent decrease fawns, but an 873 percent increase in adult males. The authors hypothesized that the large number of adult male deer might be the result of continued estrus cycling until late winter or early spring in the female deer treated with tubal ligation. These females, the researchers suggest, attract more adult male deer to the campus.

Further, the team noted that impacts of deer on the campus, including damage to vegetation and vehicle accidents, continued throughout the study regardless of the number of sterilized female deer. For example, Cornell University police did not see a reduction of vehicle accidents during the study."

Mayor Bill better get ready for the public outcry and explain why he wasted taxpayer money. Liberals will never learn.

Does a hunting culture exist in Fairfield County? Does a hunting culture exist on Staten Island? If hunting worked to manage overabundant deer, then there would be no need for WB or non lethal alternatives.

A department spokesman said the city would prepare and bid out a new contract should there be a need for deer population managment after three years."

https://nypost.com/2018/04/03/the-birds-and-the-bees-are-bucking-nycs-deer-control-program/

The birds and the bees have bucked the city’s $3.3 million plan to humanely shrink Staten Island’s deer population. In its first two years, the program to neuter white-tailed Richmond County bucks nipped 1,154 of them. But it only takes a few of the fellows to keep the does reproducing. The Parks Department says the area held more bucks than thought, perhaps 2,200. Which means Year Three won’t reach the goal of sterilizing 98 percent of the lads. Then, too, does in heat release a scent that can bring unaltered bucks swimming across the Arthur Kill from Jersey. In nature, predators limit deer populations, but the top predator in these parts won’t put up with wolves or other deer-killers — and urban liberal sensibilities quail at just shooting the Bambis. Which leaves the white-tailed ranks booming: The count has grown 9,000 percent since 2008, a plague for gardeners and a menace to motorists. Naturally, the city’s program is running over budget; the contractor neutering the bucks is likely to ask for more funding. And Cornell deer-management expert Paul Curtis warns that cities often need at least a 10-year program to do the job: “If you don’t have a plan for the future, the deer will quickly reproduce again.” Mother Nature’s not so easy to beat.

The NYC politicians are going to have a tough decision to make. Keep on with an expensive and over budget non-lethal approach or opt for lethal removal. The voting and vast majority non-hunting public will decide the course of action based on emotion, not effectiveness. And it looks as if the Mayor is sticking with the non-lethal approach: “Mayor Bill de Blasio thinks the Island's three-year, $3.3-million deer vasectomy program is still the "best plan" and worth the investment to curb the borough's surging deer population despite it running over budget in only the second year.” (http://www.silive.com/news/2018/04/post_2091.html)

Mayor Bill has enough problems with one of his directors caught with an illegal, loaded gun in her car and another aide was pulled over by the cops and the car reeked of marijuana, so I'm thinking his judgement when it comes to game management is not the best. And if the people of NYC agree with him, then they deserve each other.

And I don't need to be a taxpayer to have an opinion about game management, an area that I've been involved in for nearly 50 years. So when it comes to stupid decisions made by politicians I say all of us should have the ability to point it out. Except in this case it's so obvious there's no need for anyone to mention it (except for me, I can mention it).

The article mentioned above is one of countless articles written about the inability of any sterilization program having any long term impact on the deer herd, especially when they place the deer back into the parks and city streets to get hit by cars and continue to carry lyme disease to all of the residents. And what happened to your concern Doc about LD? Why aren't you outrage at the risk this program puts the people of SI in? Do you need to be a taxpayer to speak out against this plan? You weren't a taxpayer of Redding when you went there and scared the crap out the residents by saying LD, LD, LD, kill the deer!! I have this study that will prove less deer = less LD. NOPE!

So your Redding project failed and I recall saying it would, and you gave all kinds of excuses as to why. And this WB project will fail as well. There's no science being used here Doc, just stupid politician being taken by the snake oil salesman Tony D from WB.

Do you know what a citation is? When I make a statement and provide a link, that's me showing the Bowsite readership that that fact was published elsewhere, and not made up. All you need to do is go to that link to verify that statement. So the article I cited said there are up to 2200 deer on SI. This recent NY Post article erroneously claims there are 2200 bucks. Get it? Are you truly this obtuse or are you doing this for my benefit? So it's not fake news when it works for your argument? Right? Just like Trump?

Here's a link to the Redding study. Science never fails. You apply treatments, measure the results, and report them. Here you go. Glad to discuss. Surprised guys haven't picked up on the results. I've only posted the link like 5 times.

Once again, talk with your kids about factual information vs an article on the internet. Once they explain the difference you should be ok.

Sterilizing a buck and putting right back where you got it does not reduce the deer/car accidents. I did the math and the odds remain the same. Here's a simplified version of the math. 1-1+1 = 1. The total number of deer remained the same at 1. But if you can explain how a sterile deer avoids being hit by a car I would suggest you write an "Article" and have it posted on the internet so people like you think it's a proven fact.

And am I "getting you" Doc? I have no idea what you mean by that. I'm trying my best to have an intelligent discussion about serious issues here and my intent is never to just post stuff to "Get You". My time is far to valuable to do such a thing. I would much rather have a discussion with notme about how hidden meaning transforms unparalleled abstract beauty. There's a clue in there for you, ask the kids, they'll find it.

“Not only have we completed more than 1,100 vasectomies, we’re tagging and tracking deer, and finalizing a scientifically accurate count of the deer population,” said Anthony DeNicola of White Buffalo. “By any estimate, we’re making excellent progress here.”

Let me decode this statement. "We didn't know how many deer were here when we started and we don't know how many are here now, but we're getting more and more money, so that's great progress."

By "progress" he's obviously referring to how much money he's stealing from the taxpayers of NY, right? So Tony didn't know how many deer were on the island at the start of the program (expert? hmmmmm), and when he starts the program more and more bucks show up, and he says it's great progress. I say it's a complete failure because the doe are coming into estrus over and over, pulling more bucks over to the island, and increasing the deer herd and therefore the incidence of deer/car and lyme disease. Yeah, that's great progress for one thing,......future business for WB.

And he's getting a scientific count???? HOW? Is he saying the deer herd will remain the same once he puts collars and tags on all of the bucks? It appears that MORE bucks are showing up, so that can't be the case (remember, he already admitted the count was under estimated). And if the herd isn't going to decrease after the sterilization program then it's a waste of taxpayer's money (well, that's not true, it's a waste either way, my bad).

So I hope thar arr no speling erors in this postin, becuz I wood hat to confuze yu mor then yu alredy arr.

A sterile deer ceases to reproduce (kind of the definition of “sterile”), thus reducing the number of deer in the population over time, resulting in fewer deer available to be hit by vehicles, and ultimately, fewer deer vehicle collisions. Anyone can write an “article” which is basically an opinion piece someone chooses to publish. My work I have shared here is peer-reviewed scientific papers which have far more credibility having been through an anonymous review process by a panel of experts in the field. In fact, here is one that proves if there are fewer deer out there, there are fewer to be hit, resulting in fewer collisions with vehicles.

And yes Bob, Vision Air’s 2016 Staten Island flight resulted in 527 deer detected, far less than the previous years and far fewer than city officials were expecting. Here is a quote from this article found here and I apologize that if you want to verify the quote that you will have to go through the painstaking process of copy and paste into your browser window, but rest assured, I copied and pasted the quote myself from the “article”. (http://www.silive.com/news/2017/04/staten_island_deer_herd_size.html) “Only 527 deer were found on Staten Island during the city's latest aerial survey of the herd -- 236 less than a count three years ago and well below what the city expected.” Then that fall/winter, WB sterilized 720 bucks! Then using mark-recapture techniques and camera traps, they determined there were between 1918 and 2188 deer on Staten Island in 2017. Guess who NYC is no longer using to do aerial surveys, yup, Vision Air. Cause they detected 25% of deer on SI and their survey erroneously indicated the population was declining.

The snake oil thing is getting old. NYC put out a bid seeking a non-lethal solution to their deer problem, WB offered their services, and NYC accepted and they signed a contract. Now, there are over 1100 sterile bucks on Staten Island and yes, they are over budget because NYC officials were naïve and actually believed Vision Air’s data because they had no experience with them previously. So when WB gets boots on the ground, they are handed 4 times as many deer than they were told and budgeted for. Duh, of course they are over budget. I am surprised they didn’t ask for more. WB is merely providing the service that NYC sought to pay for.

Sterilized bucks can't produce offspring? Really? Thanks captain obvious. Why do you leave out the other fact that doe in estrus draw bucks from miles away???? That's why Tony is finding more bucks. Even a stupid hunter can put 2 and 2 together to get that answer Doc.

So the survey that WB used to kick off this program was waaaaay off, and WB didn't know this? These are the experts that the taxpayers are giving $3.3 mil to run a deer management program. WB starts with bad data? Really?? Wow!!! All they had to do was walk around, you know, like a hunter does every time he's hunting, and it would have given your expert friend a different picture.

And the snake oil comes into play when your so called EXPERT Tony D from WB fails to tell them he doesn't know how many deer there are, or that sterilized bucks will cause other bucks to be drawn to the island, or that returning the sterile deer back to the parks results in the same incident of deer/car crashes, or that LD will continue to rise, and that in 2-3 years they need to come up with another $3.3 mil because the herd is back where it started.

Follow the bean under the shell the Doc, Tony has some quick hands when it comes to providing the complete story of his services.

This thread is about WB (White Buffalo) and how they are acting with their billing and contracting practices on SI........So let’s get back to the thread topic.

White Buffalos’ contract is less than straight forward and leaves readers baffled; “I composed a cost basis on worst case scenario.”.......or.....This is not a flat rate contract"...........the reader can decide.

Prior to the start of the SI program in 2016....WB had the SI park department personnel (drivers / oversight) removed form the contract yet they did not have the contract price reevaluated for this change (years 1,2 and 3). With no oversight there can be as many deer as WB wants. In the second year, Oct 2017 WB left for Guam for another project they had previously scheduled. Now as most hunters know Oct-Jan are the main months for Whitetail deer to breed. The reason WB gave for their departure was a large amount of acorns on SI were interfering with the program and they would be returning in the spring...... after the remaining fertile bucks breed all the remaining fertile does on the Island.........This is funny stuff!

After working just 60 days in 2017 and being paid 2.35M dollars +..............WB now wants more $ (approx. + 10% above original contract pricing) because they say there are a lot of deer on SI.............Were was WB.....October - January ? Maybe SI and the mayor should actually read the contract and ask WB for the $ allotted for the city drive a longs and over sight in the original contract pricing. WB has been playing fast and loose on all their contracts over the years.....Redding, CT. included.

Pay close attention to the contract verbiage as well as years 1 and 2, SI drive a longs included in contract pricing estimate. And let us not forget that WB is now looking at "maintenance charges" for years 4.......through the future.

And now WB wants additional funds ($334,770) above his contract pricing........Funny Stuff !

Bob, to answer your question “it's so easy to tell when Scotty can't respond with a clear and reasonable explanation for why WB is doing what they're doing.” WB is doing a non-lethal buck sterilization program on Staten Island because the Mayor called for it. WB put in a bid with a management plan, it was accepted, and they signed a contract for $3.3 million.

Federal grant funding to the state of NY for FY 2017 (second to last line item) was $52,885(M) or 34.4% of the state of NY's FY 2017 budget. For all of you who either a)didn't take civics b)slept through or flunked civics federal grant funding comes from all who pay federal income tax; that would be applicable to all who meet that standard in any of the 50 states in the US.

Just for completeness the flow of federal dollars goes: FEDERAL>STATE>CITIES. Once upon a time when fiscal sanity had a fighting chance cities "cut" from states was sufficient to keep property taxes low; of late (especially in CT) states are cutting back on funding to cities and property tax rates go up. (Witness the migration of people and businesses from CT to see what a boon reckless government spending is.....)

For anyone with way too much time on their hands by all means feel free to do the math and report on the per federal income tax paying citizen's share of that funding. Who knows, maybe you'll discover the per person stake in this game falls somewhere between a decent used pick-up and a grande mocha latte at Starbucks.......

Glen, they should have continued to allow Vision Air to count the deer. They produced a "favorable outcome" from one year to the next without handling any animals, lethally or non-lethally.

Do some homework; look into how the funding was fast-tracked by the City Comptroller and the justification used; I'll give you one hint; public health was cited as the reason for the emergency budget request.

If you need any other hints on how emergency funding is procured for public health emergencies let me know......

yes the politicians are stupid for paying $3.3 mil for a failed, foolish program, and Tony is the guy that fed them a line of crap about the potential success/failure of this program since he's your expert. So I blame the elected officials for their part in this farce, but Tony is just as guilty.

I've dealt with thousands of contractors, vendors, salesmen, trades people, etc over my 45 years in the purchasing/materials field, and I can tell the good ones are upfront and honest about what they can and can't deliver. The guys that tell half truths, fail to present all the facts, don't run through the pros/cons are the companies I stayed away from.

Here's what the headline should have read once silly mayor Bill signed the contract with WB: "Mayor commits $3.3 mil to sterilize deer, no herd reduction long term".

I wonder how the taxpayers on NYC would have reacted to that headline,.......because it's the truth.

As Doc tells us; no one should pay attention to what’s happening on Staten Island, NY.........We should just accept and not question the word and results of WB.

I'll try to keep this simple; there are "standard" budgetary protocols and a timeline that goes with those; any request for funding past that timeline will only be approved if certain metrics are met, the "easiest" of which to use as justification is anything related to public health.

Once that path is chosen the most likely channel to procure funding is via either the NYC Department of Health & Mental Hygiene or straight to Albany and the NYS DOH. Funds can be "shifted" from one fiscal "bucket" to another but the source to secure emergency funding under the auspices of "public health" most likely (99.999999%) come from one of those 2 sources.

It's not the final disbursement of funds (SI Parks Department) that pinpoints the source of the funds; its the means those funds are acquired; in this case a request for emergency funding was requested under the need for public health/safety; that's a straight line to one of the 2 departments I mentioned and in either case you're tapping both state and federal funds; it's an inescapable reality.

Now if you've got the same background as I have by all means share with the readers here how many contracts you've negotiated and written for either entity over the past 16 years and how many times you've been in direct contact/meetings with either the heads of those respective departments that provides you with a level of insight into the process engaged in here.

I'd have to go back and check my figures but I can tell you in terms of responding to RFP's, RFQ's or actual contracting it's probably well north of 100 for me in that 16-year timeframe.

I'll step away now and let the readers come to their own conclusions about which one of us has an actual frame of reference and which one of us is simply blowing smoke.

This thread is yet another example of why I've chosen to avoid them like the plague for close to a year now; my entry was borne out of a pointless attempt to stifle legitimate concerns with a highly likely incorrect premise; and yes, in the high likelihood of federal tax dollar involvement it's everyone's business concerning the efficacy of any action.

Apathy is how this country has wound up in the fiscal ditch; there's no need to continue to encourage it.

As for apathy - Doc could post a thread on how to mow the grass and I would still harass the hell out him, only because this is a bow site for bowhunters. He has no vested interest in our sport and yet he's on this site when you should working. On the contrary, his goal is to spread his lies about his good friend Tony from White Buffalo and tell us hunters we're ineffective when it comes to herd management.

This is a state worker who should be so busy with his responsibilities that he has no time visit the internet and post on this site. He's wasting my money when he should be working. He's the typical example of government waste!

If this is a bowhunting site for bow hunters in Connecticut, why are we discussing buck vasectomies in New York State? What has that got to do with bow hunting or Connecticut? I'm curious what lies I have been spreading. Not wanting to hear reality does not make it untrue.

I need to take a nap now, let me know if you need more examples of your lies Phd man.

I beg to differ; my post has accomplished 2 things; for those open to a basic discussion on state fiscal policy it's clearly shown it's only a question of how much of a contribution federal tax dollars made, not if. City budgets are comprised of tax collections from residents but also are supplemented with dollars from the state coffers. As my initial attachment clearly shows in FY 2017 NY State received over 1/3 of their state budget from federal tax dollars; that's a contribution from every single person in the US who pays Federal Income tax.

Even without the emergency request federal tax dollars were in play, albeit for a relatively small per taxpayer contribution. Once you go the emergency funding route you've got 3 avenues; if the state has funds left they can reallocate (most unlikely scenario) or the state can either request funding either under the Stafford Act (Homeland Security-public health threat), FEMA (same auspices) or they can got the NIH grant route.

Now it's a much more substantial kick-in per federal income tax payer. I'm sure everyone reading this post not named Scott Williams gets this without need for additional explanation.

The above effectively addresses the question of why CT residents (or any of the other 48 states for that matter) have a stake in this program and have every right to voice an opinion on it. By the way voicing an opinion on a program's merit isn't dictating policy; one can posit that the program is a waste of tax money without it following there's any influence on that policy. What's not acceptable to me is any implication that the right to an opinion on how everyone's tax dollars is spent begins and ends at any particular person's state borders; that's not a position anyone should ever advocate.

And my prescription is to harass the hell out you until you go away. I bow hunt Doc, so I'm very patient. And anyone can kill deer, it's not hard, so challenge me with something other than one deer in 16 years since that's by choice.

With the rate that Dannel is spending taxpayer's money and running up debt, someone at the Bug Lab will likely notice that paying him to troll bowsite isn't a worthwhile use of research funds, especially when: there's ticks that need countin.

I hear that there is a new proposal for a study that will perform vasectomies on the ticks. They are still working on the tiny ear tags, but just as soon as they nail that down there will probably be grant money flowing like crazy. If that happens Doc will have to limit his time here on Bowsite to just a few hours a day.

The best part is that whenever anyone posts something, he has to jump right on and counter it. So far we have Mike, Glen, Bob, Shawn and V pulling the strings this week, Are you guys almost ready to hand off the marionette duties?

Annnnnnd GO!

This is really to show everyone else here how you're taking arguing for argument's sake to the nth degree. Open the attachment and proceed to slide 45; look for the line item of federal categorical grants (you can also factor in state categorical grants as better than 1/3 of NY revenues originate from the federal government).

Now, as I said above this represents normal expenditure revenues. Once you go for emergency funding you're tapping additional federal tax dollars. It isn't (nor was it ever) a question of if federal tax dollars were involved only how many federal tax dollars were involved.

I'm sorry this doesn't provide you the cover to try and shout down opposing viewpoints; additionally denying what are plainly evident facts doesn't alter their reality; what it does do is paint you in a most unflattering light; of course you are afforded the same 1st amendment rights as all who post here; evidently some here find it amusing to watch you twist in the wind and far be it from me to deny them their sport.

I tried to avoid the time-sucking vortex most threads of this type inevitably become; my participation was brought about by your perpetual inability to acknowledge when you are wrong; it's part of the human condition Scott and you're as susceptible to it as everyone else here, me included.

Welcome to the human race......

"The nonlethal experiment to reduce the deer population will cost the city $3.3 million over three years." https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/nyregion/deer-vasectomies-staten-island.html

"When the city awarded a contract to the company White Buffalo to perform the vasectomies, the contract was not supposed to exceed $3.3 million over the three-year research study." http://www.silive.com/news/2018/03/post_2073.html

"Yet with an exploding deer population on Staten Island causing an uptick in Lyme disease and a hike in buck/vehicle collisions, the city decided to launch a 'first of its kind' project that would cost $3.3 million dollars over three years: deer vasectomies." http://pix11.com/2017/09/29/3-million-dollar-deer-vasectomy-plan-may-not-contain-population/

"New York Is Going To Spend $2 Million For Deer Vasectomies In Staten Island...Seriously." http://www.realclear.com/offbeat/2016/06/10/new_york_is_going_to_spend_2_million_for_deer_vasectomies_in_staten_islandseriously_13573.html#ixzz5DAGXqIIr

White Buffalo sued for evidence tampering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NszxW3g8xRU

WB is botching the surgeries on SI and is sued. http://www.recordonline.com/article/20151112/NEWS/151119810

I'm as certain of my facts as I am the sun will once again rise in the east tomorrow morning; equally certain is that all of you have no doubts about the reality that all departments in NYC derive funds from local, state and federal sources and it's only a question of degree, not whether it occurs.

Desperate? Hardly; proving the obvious is about as difficult as deciding it's a good idea to continue breathing. Bemused? Somewhat, but then I've seen this movie before so there really was never any cause for suspense.

Disappointed? Only in my lack of judgment in deviating from my self-imposed exile from these threads given my knowledge of someone's capacity for denial.

Carry on Robert, you're retired so I guess you need a hobby or two.....

Doc keep in mind that many publications have a particular bias or agenda, which may not be obvious at first glance. One only has to read any of your articles or papers of fiction to see why fact checking is important !

The irony in your admission is breathtaking; you clearly acknowledge what I've said all along; the only means to prevent any federal tax dollars involvement (as you would like all to believe) would be if filters were set up for every single line item in every cities budget in NY to prevent a penny of those federal tax dollars from finding there way into any single line item.

Ponder for a moment the level of ignorance required to ascribe to such a theory; the expression "weapons-grade stupid" comes immediately to mind.

FYI, this isn't arguing wildlife management, it's basic civics and economics 101.

"You can argue with me and continue to broadcast your ignorance,"

You might want to heed your own advice here; you're in a hole and it would be a great idea to lose the shovel.....

I have clearly expressed that everyone who pays federal taxes has a right to an opinion on how they're spent and to voice it; the agency those taxpayers are questioning has no obligation to do anything about that opinion, including even listening to it.

This is worlds removed from the idiotic cover you continue to hide behind; be a man, grow up and accept that in this instance you are indisputably wrong on the facts.

Continued efforts at obfuscating to avoid that reality only makes you look small and petty, not to mention intellectually dishonest.

Poor guy has been picked on since 3rd grade. That's gotta have a lot to do with growing up to be an asshole.

I bet if we found out the name of the bully who took his lunch money, just saying it would make him run away and cry.

And for those out there that think I was wrong for writing to Doc's boss, I say this. I'm taxpayer in this state, and if you've followed any of my posts you know that this is an area that concerns me in so many ways. Writing to a government official about a situation that I view as a waste of my money is not only right, but I view it as my duty. It was interesting to learn CAES and other government employees only work 6.5 hours a day, so I can use this when talking to my state rep.

Scott - There is no such thing as anonymity on the Internet-none. Every web site we visit, every comment, picture, whatever we post leaves a digital footprint, and that digital footprint is ridiculously easy to backtrack. It's very simple to get to the who, what, when and even where a poster posts; putting a time in your posts is meaningless; it can be any time or the real time; the real time can be uncovered very easily, such as, for example when someone posts something in haste, realizes their mistake and then removes the post.

This person probably thinks they're slick and they just got away with one..... WRONG! That digital footprint remains and it doesn't lie; posting during work hours is very provable if someone wants to insist on being obnoxious.

Here's one example of a digital footprint (there are additional tracking means but this should illustrate the point about trace ability).

Long ago I pegged (and publicly (here) labeled) you as a pathological liar; all you've done is proven how spot on my assessment of you was. I've posted multiple times that people were voicing an opinion not dictating policy yet you insist on regurgitating a blatant misrepresentation, not just on thread but on others.

The reason is obvious; declaring people have no right to voice an opinion wouldn't fly here, even amongst the usual suspects who seem invariably to ride in to your rescue when you step in it (you really should be paying them you know). Knowing this you resort to misrepresenting the argument and try to cast it in a light that is justifiably easy to attack; sorry but you don't get any free passes when you lie so blatantly here.

To be very blunt it's this kind of chicken shit game-playing you pull that casts you in the unfavorable light you so rightly deserve-your penchant for intellectual dishonesty is probably only exceeded by the level of arrogance you parade like some badge of honor; to quote my youngest daughter in her teens, "dude, you ain't all that." Actually that statement gives you too much credit; what you are is beneath contempt.

Now as to what I've proven it's obvious you can't eliminate any federal tax dollar involvement, your infantile whining notwithstanding. Say it ain't so to your hearts content Skippy, it just highlights how low you'll go (not that any here needed proof of that).

Shawn also pegged you right on the money Scott; you are an ass. Let me know if you'd like that repeated to your face; be more than happy to oblige.

Wow. Threatening. Call me a liar. And chicken s_ _ _. Over what? The fact that Staten Island hired WB to non-lethally control deer within NYC limits? That NY State decides how their deer are managed and not CT taxpayers?

The Redding project was a federal government overseen, taxpayer-funded competitive research grant program to test the best combinations of controlling ticks of which deer reduction was one treatment. The Staten Island project is a city-funded for-hire service for the purpose of non-lethal deer management. They are completely different animals. CT taxpayers have nothing to do with it. If I'm wrong, show us. Posting a City budget that nowhere has the word deer in it is not proof. And if I'm lying, where? What am I lying about? You need to chill dude.

The labels I've applied to you have been earned every inch of the way, with every post you've made over the past few years here. You are simply incapable of anything approaching honest debate.

To your last post you continue to lie via misrepresentation what people have posted; no one, not one soul has stated they feel they can or should dictate game management policy to Staten Island; people have stated their opinions about how they feel about the project; the problem for you is that's not a winnable argument (that people have no right to voice their opinion); no one would support muzzling free speech. Instead of recognizing this and simply arguing your point on merit you have to misrepresent what has been posted and argue that-that is the height of both intellectual dishonesty and cowardice-hence the apropos dispensation of the title 'chicken shit'-it fits you to a "t" here.

What's truly pathetic is your continued obtuse blathering about federal tax dollars; I've wasted enough time on what's patently obvious to everyone here (and that includes you, petulant whining notwithstanding).

The real burr in your saddle you actually revealed on your response to Wild Bill in your thread; it simply galls you that "ignorant hunters" would dare to disagree with you. If your abilities matched your arrogance you might have something of a leg to stand on; pity is they don't. You're opinion of your relative worth is vastly overstated; most here are measured by a different yardstick; they're actually men; men who live and breathe honor and integrity, concepts of which you are simply incapable of measuring up to them in.

You're a bully Scott, and like most bullies when push comes to shove at heart you're a pussy. You'll hide behind your keyboard and dole out the smarmy patronizations but you'll never put any skin in the game; you simply don't have the balls.

The offer stays on the table if you think I'm not prepared to say any of this to your face.

Fact of the matter is I honestly feel sorry for you......

Doc - you said you work 7 hours???? From the very polite email you sent me after I contacted the CAES director (wonder why you weren't your usual self in that reply to me, could it be you're ashamed of how you usually talk to us on this site??) I find you work 6.5 hours, not 7. 8:30 to 4:30 minus two 15 minute breaks and an hour for lunch is,..............check with your kids for the answer, I know math is not your strong suit, spelling is, right?

1. WB meets ANY contracted kill figure. 2. WB is run by experts (several law suits have been filed against these experts and they had to pay against all of them - google it) 3. WB knows how many deer are on Staten Island today or when the project was first quoted. 4. Hunters can't reduce the deer the herd if allowed to hunt on the land in question. 5. Great Mountain Forest has too many deer. 6. Federal funding doesn't come from taxpayers. 7. Federal grants don't come from taxpayers. 8. It's not a conflict of interest to hire your friend. 9. Sterilizing deer reduces the deer herd long term. 10. Sterilizing deer reduces deer/car incidence. 11. Sterilizing deer reduces lyme disease. 12. Killing deer is a way to reduce lyme disease. 13. All science is based upon fact. 14. Deer management can only be achieved via WB. 15. You know more by reading about something from a book than people who have first hand knowledge and experience in a topic.

Next we'll start checking with the IP search engine to do some fact checking.

I never said it was ok, I said being snitch is lame move. I used the word lame to stay family friendly. I had much more colorful language in mind.

What goes on here is one thing, but you don't take it any farther and you certainly don't do anything to threaten someone's livelihood over an internet squabble.

I told you a long time ago we would never share a campfire, and we never will.

Has anyone noticed that since airrow mentions the IP search engine that Doc hasn't been posting with his usual frequency??? Hmmmmm.

Sent from my IPhone at 1650.

Do you really believe that you haven't promoted WB on this site? I have to stop laughing to address that LIE. Expert company thats been sued several times and had to pay to settle them, but they're the EXPERTS. They're the future of game management, not ignorant bow hunters. They couldn't kill their quota, pick any place, because of excuses given by you. I could post a long list but I'm on my phone doing something much more important than entertaining your drivel, I'm watching paint dry. What color is the sky in your world Doc.

Your penchant for lying is almost eclipsed by your penchant for hyperbole. Offering to repeat something face-to-face is simply removing any potential for anyone to imply it's a case of keyboard bravery and nothing more. Trust me, if I had something else in mind I'd have left no room for misunderstanding....

As Bob correctly noted the points I've made are grasped by everyone here, yourself included. The issue is they don't foster the straw man argument you're attempting to make by your repeated misrepresentations so you just do the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ear and humming as if that negates the point; you really need to grow up Scott.

I stand by every label I applied; your conduct here has been the same from day one; when all else fails lie your backside off. Of all your antagonists here can you take a stab at the number who've ever posted under a fake registration? You're the one who went down that rabbit hole Scott; there's real character and integrity. (that was sarcasm for the galactically slow). We're up to 178 posts before mine; if, as you continue to claim (lie) someone said they can dictate game management policy to SI it would be ridiculously easy to do a cut-and-paste to show that was the case; you haven't because you can't-because no one made that claim. Of course you continue to make the misrepresentation anyway, don't you? That's the kind of chicken-shit nonsense that someone who's just here to be an ass pulls; own it Scott, it's all you.

Man up Scott; admit you were wrong, that you've been proven wrong and take that first step towards becoming a recovering liar.....

And the offer is still on the table......