Contributors to this thread:
Well name your county and what do you think,,,,,, In Washington County the cross bow advocates won hands down,,,,,, the air bow is next,,,,, what can I say,,,, if there was anyone else, not in favor of full inclusion, they sure did not back me up,,,, because I never heard a word from them........ I was out there on my own, that is for sure.....
Saw some WBH jackets at the meeting, did not see them say anything though,,,,,
The Pro Cross bow guys for full inclusion, did speak, ,,,,,,,,,, will be interesting to see how the state went on this
La crosse co. Older people think they are going to take their crossbows away. Did they read the entire question? Curious to see how #53 went.
66 attendees in Lincoln County. More talk for support of crossbows than against. No talk at all on air powered weapons.
Nice to see some groups of younger people tonight.
Sad to say people are stupid, how hard is it to read, that question,,,,, you cant fixed stupid
Milwaukee County seemed about 50/50. The older hunters were for limiting the season, and younger ones were for keep it as is. Gonna be a tough road ahead.
My friend just told me, all support for the cross bow in Vernon county
Sadly there was a lot of vocal support for crossbows in Chippewa county. Really though what difference does it make what the vote is? The vote was never in favor of crossbows, yet here they are.
I was told that in Columbia County there was all but 2 were for xbows & that one old guy asked the dnr if that meant that he couldn't hunt with his any more & the dnr said I don't know. The answer was right in the question. I guess they can't read. It got a bit heated in Jefferson County after I spoke. Then the CC chairman said Whats the difference what weapon someone uses as long as we get new hunters. Then I had to speak again. He wouldn't even look at me after the meeting. I had a few people thank me after but I doubt it was enough.
Our WCC guy, he was clueless,,,, he said "well we can not take any more comments, we will be running late",,,,,,,,, the crowd did not like that, and one guy said, listen, its here in the rules, we have the right to be heard, for 3 minutes, and you have the duty to respect our thoughts, other wise, why in the hell are we here,,,,,,,,,, This guy was pro cross bow, but he was right on that issue...... So it continued, but there was not doubt in my mind,,,,,,
The WCC head did not like that question, he was bias against it, and tried to shut it down,,,,,,,,, I am fed up with the WCC,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If the comments become repetitive or sway from the original topic the question will be called and a vote taken and move on to the next question. To keep things moving in a somewhat timely fashion.
sorry, I was there, maybe that is how it is suppose to be, but it is not what happened,,,, no way, to sugar coat it, I am not an idiot,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I stand by what I said, and I have never missed a meeting, unless I had to work, and always backed the WCC, but not anymore.......
The same guy, allowed repetitive comments like you say, go on and on, about some fishing rule, but as soon as the cross bow issue came up, he was going to be quick to put a lid on it,,,,,,, to his credit, he did not, but than again, the mood of the crowd may have swayed him.....
Everyone was very civil and respectful, which they should be, but that is what they came to this meeting for,,,,, and you would have to be out of touch, not know that......
“The same guy, allowed repetitive comments like you say, go on and on, about some fishing rule, but as soon as the cross bow issue came up, he was going to be quick to put a lid on it,,,,,,, to his credit, he did not”
So then what’s the issue if he let the comments continue? Did you listen to the opening statement of rules that is read at the start of the hearing in all 72 counties?
I am not going to argue with you about this,,,,,, its over with,,,, as I said, it continued only because the crowd, got so loud about it, he did not have much choice,,,,,, its over with,,,,,,,
Over 100 people at the Kenosha meeting. Group hunting/sharing tags got more vocal involvement than anything followed by the goose roundups.
The easier weapon is here to stay I'm afraid as it seemed like this meeting was just a formality and the "vote" has already been decided before the meeting.
The main reason I went wasn't for the vote per se but in hopes of our freinds who banter on and on how nobody gets involved will find other arguments. HA!
Disclaimer - I truthfully didn't go, read it in the paper
Well Pasq - Glad to see you left the couch! Hopefully ya enjoyed the evening!
My wife and I attended Lincoln Co. Had to leave for work after question 17. Seems the questions are vague and cause confusion. Hard to get any clear info from the table guys-if they had any. I voted so at least I have the right to groan. Thousands use the resources and only 66 shared their voice. My outdoor fun wont be spoiled so I'll move on
Pierce County. Seemed like 40 or so attending. Two guys seemed to really back the shoulder fired, scope sighted thing. One of them seemed to have his panties in a bunch and wanted to know where this was coming from. Another from the southern part of the county said that he hunts with one and is a member of WBH and that is where the pushback is coming from. Despite the clear wording of the question they seemed to think that their things are going to be taken away....
I was there at the same Washington county as groundhunter, he has it right mostly. The old guys clearly did not read the question, the entitlement mentality was on display for sure. I did not speak up because frankly, my blood pressure was so high I was mad at all the bullshit, I would have probably started a brawl. There was a lot of us against. Hard to argue with a bunch of morons, some guy even brought up Russia!
The misinformation was rampant, apparently we are all wounders, no deer ever get wounded with the superior crossgun! There is no affect on the deer herd, clearly not even the dnr had the facts about how fast the crossgun numbers have surpassed verticle bows.
The crossgun lobby had a rep there and was full of lies. He whined about how unfair it will be cause they fought really hard for full inclusion and any limit placed on them would be a travesty. He even stated that crossgun users used to have to pay for a test to get certified to use one? When was that?
The bow season is forever changed, they are here to stay, the foot is no longer in the door, the door has been ripped off and burned. We all know it, thanks to all that fought the good fight.
It was hard to get a read on the crossbow question/vote here in Washburn County. There were more comments on group hunting and on a resolution for group bagging for fishing.
It was evident to me, the WCC did not like this question,,,,, the DNR does not have a clue, on what deer hunting traditions really mean to a lot of us,,,,,, like longbowbud said, it was frustrating,,,,,,, I am going to leave this alone, to say I am disappointed from what I have seen, is a understatement........
I was really thinking about the future of deer hunting, for our young hunters of today,,,, I think they will be the big losers...................
Some of you guys live in la la land. I have been telling you for years there are more crossbow supporters on this very forum than there are guys against. And, this is supposed to be a bowhunting forum, not a crossbow forum. Come out of your box blinds and fess up.
Bowhunting with hand drawn bows is in a steep decline and will continue , crossbow hunting will steadily increase. Only a matter of time here in the west too.
Yes, we heard you , we tune you out, you bring the same thing up on damn near every thread, we get it. Feel better?
I was at the Eau Claire meeting and there were 4 or 5 people who spoke in support of them, all older. I and another younger guy got up and spoke against them. I know there were others there against because I had a few come up and give me the thumbs up on what I said. They stopped it when things started to heat up. I had more that I wanted to say but it was done and on to the next question. One guy really got my blood boiling when he started in about the WBH was behind all of this. This moron does not understand that he would not have the chance to be out there with these non-bowhunting devices if it wasn't for them. Especially to have the season we do for BOW HUNTING. X=bows are a joke, and from what I saw the ones that support them are also. Oh, one guy said "why don't they have the first 3 days of the gun season for 30-30's and smaller, then 06's for a couple and then open to all after that, it's the same difference" REALLY DUDE????
Thank you longbowbud. I was there for the entire compound revolution. All of the arguments..... and attitudes are exactly the same. Best to listen to one with experience.
La Crosse Co. - Seemed about 50/50. As Bman said, many must not have read the question as they seemed to be under the impression that the entire crossbow season would be taken from them (many of these individuals were elderly or disabled and could obtain a permit under the old crossbow regulations).
This was my first spring hearing, was disappointed to see a few individuals in support brining their kids as sheep to vote on the issue. I didn't even know individuals under 18 could fill out a card? Pretty disappointing.
You should not be able to vote in my opinion, unless you can show a valid or pass in the last year, a hunting fishing or trapping license, as the actual holder..... But today every one gets a trophy
I went to St. Croix County. A couple guys spoke up for the crossbow, and a couple guys stood up against. I got the feeling that it was 50/50 or maybe even tilted a little against the crossbow. Does anybody know when the results are supposed to be out on this?
ground hunter +1. Its a shame.
So who is behind the movement to limit crossbows, if its not the WBH?
I'm going to be interested to see the results as well. Present company excluded I have a feeling most of the hunting public is in favor of the x-gun being used throughout the entire archery season. Simply because they perceive it as easier, and when shooting from an elevated box blind or enclosed tower or enclosed ladder stand with nice rests for every shooting port or a sweet padded rail all the way around, it is. I carried one a couple years ago because of a shoulder injury. It was the biggest Pain the A$$ piece of hunting equipment I ever used. I attempted to use it out of my more 'traditional' archery setups (hang on's and simple ladder stands in thicker areas) and it was heavy, cumbersome, hard to maneuver...ugh I hated it (and it was a newer crossbow from one of the top manufacturers)...that and I had two warranty issues with it (that's another thing, warranty claims on x-guns are higher than even the most high performing compounds...) . I have since rehabbed by shoulder and am now shooting a new Hoyt RX-1...which most x-gun supporters will say "that is more technically advanced than my crossbow!" and I will say "Yes! it is, it's a better engineered, higher quality, and more advanced weapon than most x-guns"...but I still have to DRAW IT AND HOLD IT when the time comes to make the shot. I am not advocating that x-guns be outlawed, but am in favor of separate season and tag just like the Muzzleloader But x-guns are here to stay I'm afraid and I doubt the season structure will change, but I think we need to approach this a different way and support the elimination of group bagging and the support for a one buck per year regardless of weapon season.
I was hopping all the a$$cracks would go back to their xgun forums after this was over but I guess not. Of the 2 CC members one was for & one was against. It was the 4 dnr people that really showed their stupidity. Too much book smarts & not enough common sense.
I am glad they are,,, that's why I am a member
The Bow Hunters of the State are behind the movement. If you didn't have the WBH, you would not have the seasons you do now.
Hey I got a idea.... lets get a lobbyist..... go around the CC. Everyother organization does it.
If you are an able bodied man and use a cross bow you should have to were pink camo. Really? your to lazy to practice with a real bow that you need a point and shoot weapon? Man up Suzy!
Whats really sad is when you have cross gunners coming on a bow site pretending to be true archers.
I love Bowsite and the how things should be done. "We all come with our built-in limitations, restrictions and boundaries. No matter how eager and determined one is, a man without legs cannot win the world high jump competition, and a lady without eyesight can’t shoot brilliant world-class photographs."
This question was premature at least 2-3 years and was supported/advanced by the wrong group of hunters. In 2-3 more years, the group of hunter truly affected by the crossbow season would have had the numbers and reason to advance this question.
The reason in giving the separate license/season and the ability for the DNR to adjust the season was for this group to point the finger at the crossbow season and separate the bow season. Not bow hunters.
When this question was pushed 2 years ago, I knew it was ill advised. It probably has caused more harm than good. You were impatient.
Waiting for the "orange army" would have been best. Their numbers are/will be the most affected.
Just a poor strategy and a bit of selfishness on bow hunters.
"Waiting for the "orange army" would have been best. Their numbers are/will be the most affected."
I feel the same. Bowhunters have unfortunately given themselves a elitist image whether we wanted it or not. I fear that some hunters might become pro xbow just to spite bowhunters....that is until the xbow hunt impacts the orange army hunt. But by then not just the xbow season will be shortened but also the archery season.
Oh...and because we love bickering among ourselves so much I could see the DNR just simply changing the definition of a bow or archery giving xbow full inclusion.
" I could see the DNR just simply changing the definition of a bow or archery giving xbow full inclusion."
That will not happen as only the legislature can change the crossbow law. DNR only has power to change the season.
BUT....... if the question sides with crossbows, the pro-crossbow lobby has good ammo to lobby legislature to change to full inclusion. I expect this.
When attempting to change law or administrative rule, you need to think things through otherwise you're going to step in "it". IMO, they stepped in a huge pile on this one.
+1 Bawana Hunters will hunt & killers will kill. I don't think it will take too long for them to decimate the heard.
" I could see the DNR just simply changing the definition of a bow or archery giving xbow full inclusion." "That will not happen as only the legislature can change the crossbow law"
That could be reality.
Ahhhh.. You see that boys? You're greed would never win. The longer this great evil(crossbows) is legal for your full archery season the longer this evil will prevail!
Maybe you can encourage the DNR to have a blow dart season before the archery season since you guys really just want first pickings instead? You know, to keep with your GREAT HISTORICAL BOW TRADITIONS in this state as you call it. Since your all concerned about traditions and health of the heard or whatever direction you can spew it to have less guys in the woods with you during rut.
Love you guys.. Can I insert the Rodgers flashing his wrestling belt here after scoring a TD? =) =) =)
Wanna be archers crawling out of the wood work.
I have said for a while that the gun only hunters will get pissy as they always do, then and only then will things change. My biggest worry is now when that change happens it will be for ALL bowhunters. Gun only hunters don't care if you use a compound, recurve, longbow, or crossbow. They will not look at the facts and see that one weapon is majorly impacting their season. They will just see that those damn bowhunters are getting all the bucks before gun season opens.
Like I asked earlier. Why does last nights vote matter anyway? There was never a majority vote to allow crossbows for the able bodied lazy, yet we have them.
I've been lurking at crossbow nation for a bit. Most of the time its entertaining to read what they have to say. And boy do they hate bowsite lol
Well today they seem to be doing a victory dance.
Wow, lots of complaining on tweed's link about greedy bow hunters trying to take away peoples' right to hunt. I've stated this numerous times; Nobody is taking away anybody's right to hunt. If the crossbow season is shortened, anybody can still hunt the rest of the archery season with a real bow. If the bow is just as easy to kill with as the crossbow (like crossbow guys are claiming,) then what's the difference if the crossbow guys switch to vertical bow??? Anybody not physically able can still use a crossbow as the old law states.
Issue with the gun-hunter logic is a lot of these old-timer gun hunters who can't deal with the cold anymore are just going to crossbow. That's the logic you guys are missing. It's not crossbow hunters/ compound bow hunters/ and gun hunters. I am a gun hunter, and most gun hunters are now crossbow hunters. Most of the push back will be nothing because these guys can now relax, not feel forced to shoot a deer in the few days they get, and not blow loads of money to go up north for a weekend.
Dic2 why even come to a bow site. You are not a archer.
"Issue with the gun-hunter logic is a lot of these old-timer gun hunters who can't deal with the cold anymore are just going to crossbow. That's the logic you guys are missing."
Now this is funny stuff. Dtyne posts about logic yet he fails to use it himself. Older hunters always were able to hunt with a crossbow. You cannot make this stuff up, just allow people a bit of time and they readily flaunt their ignorance, hypocrisy and overall lack of intelligence. :) :) :)
Yup, another Moron that can't use his real name because he is embarrassed that he is a girly girl using a xgun in the bow season. Go away little girl & Man up. I checked the site out & it is full of ding dong wanabes. I think that is why some of them come over here. They just can't understand that they are not bow hunters & they are not wanted here. Shoo Fly Don't Bother Me.
Here's another place where people are having a field day. 24hourcampfire.
I can only picture guys like Dbag out there sitting by there corn pile, x-gun at ready on a tri-pod, shoot a deer and prance around with there to-to on like they accomplished this feet bow hunting. They don't have the competence nor the desire or heart to be a bowhunter, just hit the easy button there whole life and learn nothing. Just a kill.
Line2hunt ........funny.....Dic2 is probably from Ohio.... all happy that we can have a screwed up season like theres.
Well, it just isn't that bad. Wisconsin is still a wonderful place to hunt, regardless.
Boy, the state wide vote was much closer than I thought. 2660 YES, SHORTEN SEASON. 3164 NO
"Boy, the state wide vote was much closer than I thought. 2660 YES, SHORTEN SEASON. 3164 NO"
But wait. Good ole ronnie, rancid crabtree, sharpthings, or whoever he will be tomorrow, says this vote don't mean "CHIT". Because good ole Kazzie will git-ur-dun.
"Does that come from your deep hunting archery traditions?" Nope, comes from common sense. Same thing I mentioned last time that you were sorely lacking. I see you have gained no intelligence since then. Thanks for playing.
"Because good ole Kazzie will git-ur-dun"
Yes, the decisions were already made. Long ago and far away, before anyone local could chime in with their opinion.
I'm sure this vote means nothing. If these votes meant something we wouldn't already have the crossbow problem.
"Yes, the decisions were already made. Long ago and far away, before anyone local could chime in with their opinion."
Perhaps, but that is how crossbows became legal for all able bodied lazy wanna be's anyway. If that's how we curb them a bit, I can sleep with that.
Funny the airbow question didn't turn out with the same numbers that the x-gun question did? I would think the easy button boys would be jumping all over that or is that stepping on your toes too much? Hopefully the vote does mean nothing and the DNR will see what is happening and shorten that season (like take all of November out). I know one thing, if I had a x-gun in my hand the kill for me on large bucks would be 100% every year. But, I will continue to watch with my recurve as the majority of big boys are out of range after 30 yards and use my skill to figure a way to get closer.
Well at least they do not want the air bow..... that vote is close, that's for sure,,, thanks Drop Tine
WOW, Dicktyne is a Moron & very uneducated. I'm sure he is not smart enough to get my social security number. As for finding my children you could check the Inch Cemetery near Portage. Checking to see who the Morons are is not stalking you Moron. That is where they have info & success pictures. I guess you can't take a hint little girl go home. You are not a bowhunter. My name is in the WBH magazine also. OH NO I'M GOING TO GET HACKED. You are a d bag and no one wants you here. Slime....run slime run. Hide behind your key board little girl & put your panties back on over your diaper. BAHAHAHA. You can't seriously think that you could stand with real hunters. I just find it hard to believe that fruits like you even exist. Have a nice day.
Nobody without some disability will ever hunt with a crossgun on my properties.
Anyone who needs this to call themselves a bow hunter is not a real bow hunter.
All gun hunters always had the opportunity to take up bow hunting.
Thanks droptine. Is there numbers per county out yet? I think the xgunners didn't want the airbow because it would screw up their season. Looks like we will get yellow to hunt with now. That should be required for all x gunners for safety. Only 504 votes short state wide. That is not bad considering we are a small group going against the lies & misinformation put out by the dnr & x gun manufactures. Those that stayed home should be ashamed of them selves.
Seems like another funeral service for the public land hunters in a way.
albino these wanna be archers are so funny. Come on a site that does not support cross guns and can't figure out why there is no LOVE. Let me help you wanna be archers out.... this is a bow and arrow site....You wanna be s go to the cross gun and bolt site.
Where was Ron Kulas to back you up? I heard he came, voted and left.
"Seems like another funeral service for the public land hunters in a way." Pasq, you are spot on. private land owners can set their own rules but it is the poor guys who must hunt public that will suffer the most.
Yes, I see the same 2 guys that are on the CC are the same guys that are on the CDAC. They want to give out 3 times as many doe tags to private & then have a doe only season. Guess where all the tags will be. There is a ton of good public here. They have a meeting on the 17th & say about 50 people come. I don't know much about the county yet but it sure don't sound right.
I can't believe my computer said this!
"it is the "poor" guys who must hunt public that will suffer the most"
You sir, are so faaaaaar out of touch with the common man that it's pathetic...
Here you go Albino. The citizen resolutions presented last night will be sometime next week before being published.
"I can't believe my computer said this!" Youngster, you use text to speech? Reading is becoming a lost art among you pod eaters.
From: CaptMike 10-Apr-18 Private Reply "Youngster, you use text to speech? Reading is becoming a lost art among you pod eaters."
Brilliant!
So how do those Tide Pods taste? Did you get a swirly today?
It was very close here in Washburn 18 yes and 19 no with 16 abstaining.
It was very close here in Washburn 18 yes and 19 no with 16 abstaining.
Young hunter just trolled you all. Thinking he could cut and paste the entire thread is an attempt not to allow the thread to be change bit only deleted entirely.
Savy more, even for a troll
Funny, he changed it already.
"So how do those Tide Pods taste? Did you get a swirly today?"
Great mentoring!
EAsy now, I heard a rumor that the WI forum was a "No criticize the DNR/CDAC zone". There are some here that think it's their job to enforce this;)
Don't feed the little troll. While most of us are home with ours kids, some are switching from Bowsite to others sites. At least he will not need starch for his socks;)
I think it is the other d bag coming back with a new name. I did see the attempt he tried. Not the computer genius he thought he was.
I disagree with the attitude it will not affect the private land owner,,,, it will in the future, with a shorter season and a one buck rule.......................
Very true GH. When the gun only crowd starts crowing loud enough, and they will. It will be all bowhunters that are punished due to the lazy crossbow wannabes.
That seems to be the group that cant read. Every county I have heard from said the same thing that they thought they would not be able to hunt. We also lost 20 counties by 7 votes or less. Some by only 1 vote.
I have a question ..... when you are on the CC or CDAC are you allowed to endorse cross guns as a management tool for deer during a meeting.( not coming to the mic and giving your opion but from the podium like your somebody). My county did not do thank but I heard a couple did.
Here's to hoping the xbow season is shortened in the 18 Counties in favor.
Those results are very sad; the entitlement attitude on full display in WI.
From what I have now seen, and the numbers etc,,,,, I think the NRB and the legislators are going to shorten the season, somewhat,,,,, there is going to be a change.....
The DNR did not help themselves, sending out different numbers, to those who requested them...... What I saw at the Deer Classic from a NRB member, did not coincide with what the WON printed out,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
WON is nothing more than an echo chamber for middle management DNR people.
It is an echo chamber for bitter old DNR people,,,, that is who gets printed anyway,,,, I once told a friend, good guy in the DNR, that the way the DNR treats people, one day it will come back to haunt them, the chickens will come home to roost,,,,,
They are trying to find a savior, except they can not find a Democrat who will support trapping, etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
From what I saw in Eau Claire, it was mostly misinformed old guys, 65+ who voted. I think they needed to explain the question better.
Or maybe, at 65 they have figured out that there are much more important things to worry about than what weapon someone hunts with.
Live2hunt, I saw the same thing in La Crosse Co. Elderly (~60-65yrs) and disabled individuals thinking the xbow/season was going to be taken to them. These individuals clearly misinterpreted the question or had been extremely misinformed.
Additionally, it still does not sit well that I observed children and other individuals, clearly under the age of 18, voting on this and other issues.
Inmy, the archery season as we know it was not set up or was intending to include x-guns, EVER. Get off that "worry about what someone hunts with" kick, that's B.S. Did you vote yes for the airbow? Eat your comment if you didn't.
Live2, +1. Some people are so ignorant and uncaring for the future of the sport that they spew their greed shamelessly.
I am not happy with the outcome. Remember these things... The way this question got into this years meeting..... The negative publicity "aimed at bowhunters"..... The reminder that all of these votes are"non binding". Which in my mind means that the politicians will continue down the slippery slope of passing laws to appease those that continue to grease their palms. I don't know how they can sleep at night.....
When all you have left are personal attacks, it may be time to reevaluate your stance.
I still think the outcome needs to be looked at in a glass-half-full mentality. There are 18 Counties for which the xbow season should undoubtedly be shortened (in my opinion, somewhat significantly) and comparative data, to the remaining xbow counties in terms of harvest/success rates, should be collected for a number of years.
After a period of comparative data is collected (~2-3 years imo) for the 18 counties with a shortened season, the remaining counties should then be reevaluated by the WDNR.
Joe
Joe That will never happen.
The bowhunters did not seem very organized on this question. I was hoping for more.
cross gun wanna be archers .....Please go back to a cross gun forum.
Yep, have venny every year. Some of us have skills we use and have worked on to get our venison. Those without the wanting to learn a skill have to go to things like x-guns to try to keep up and really have nothing, so Sad. You get your airbow yet Dbag? You would have nothing if it wasn't for the greedy bowhunters who got you the season you don't deserve now. Fade away Dbag.
Dic2 your still not a archer.
LOL DTYNE2 is doing a good job trolling you guys with his bait. Don't let yourselves be his prey.
Dtyne2 loves his penis shaped deer veni... Mmmmm... baby.... soooo sooo sooo good! lol don't shoot your thumb off!
Fellow hunters what a great day to be a bow hunter..
I just watched the website live cast of the NRB meeting in Madison, and the cross bow was the last agenda..... It is evident, that no one, has any intentions of stopping cross bow hunting, for anyone. It was seen as a positive for younger hunters and some women.........
The numbers the DNR put forward, were shown in a factual manner, and what it does show is a very high trend of success, compared to the vertical bow and gun harvest,,,, the trend was quick, and distinct. The issue was how will this weapon affect the deer herd overall, in distribution for everyone......
It was also recognized, that for the first time, the last 3 years showed a decline in gun hunting, where prior to that, we were one of the few in the nation, where gun hunting was on the rise,,,,,,,,,,,
They want fairness for the gun hunters, to also have opportunity, and the fact that bowhunters to their credit, in the past, got rid of group bagging.....
They are looking at the revenue that is brought in by gun hunting, and the revenue overall, that the DNR needs frankly as a huge chunk of their budget, and they do not want to lose that.......
So they are looking into, the suggestion, of the cross bow, having its own season,,,,,,,,
Don't forget this ground hunter..... don't want to see us end up a one buck state
10 pntbow; how about you tell us why we should happily accept the CB? Seeing as you come to a archery forum asking the obvious stated questions. All you do is look through a scope and pull the trigger and so on. Lol.. Does it take skill to shoot a crossbow? Please enlighten all of us? Please shine the light?
10 pnt, I'd like to ask the opposite question to answer your question... Why are so many crossbow hunters so concerned about the crossbow season changing?? Most crossbow guys claim that they are no deadlier than a vertical bow, and just as difficult to shoot. If that's the case I don't understand peoples' concern. If a real bow is equivalent, then just start shooting a real bow if the season changes...
Simple 10pt, it is not a bow, it is not considered archery equipment to the dnr, the archery season was not intended for a weapon like this, the long season was because of the low chance of taking an animal, it is not a season for a long range weapon like these are now. Why don't we have the gun season during the Rut? Because it would be a catastrophe for bucks in the state. You need to read all that has been wrote before you ask. These have been said before, or are you going to take all these answers away? If you want to do it the way the season is set up, draw that thing back at the point of kill!!
10pt.... a lot of us bow, gun and black powder hunt. Most of us don't want to end up like Ohio a one and done state. You ask why some of us don't like cross gunners..... Its because most of you LIE.
The only advantaged i see using a xbow is you don't have to hold your draw. Ding Ding Ding there is your answer. Plus 100 yard shooters with them now.
10pnt, why not open the whole season up to guns then??
"If anything i think the compound has the advantage, you can release/fire faster than an xbow."
That's laughable. Please explain to me how you can release faster. Anybody can pick up a crossbow and hit a target using a rest with little to no practice. Put a bow in the hand of someone who has never shot one and see what happens.
Why are you on here asking these questions if you're not concerned?
Why would they make hunting the rut with a lesser weapon illegal? That logic makes zero sense.
@
[email protected] don't shoot 100yrds...my kill zone is 35 yrds or less...even with the xbow. Just last season, I had low 150ish come in, he got within 43 yrds...but I never let one fly. So believe what you want about shooting 100yrds.
Thanks for stopping by Nopoint.
'Why don't we have the gun season during the Rut? Because it would be a catastrophe for bucks in the state' -- not true. Manage your property better than. Last couple years the rut is still going doing gun season.
10pt, manage your property? realy
Why would you need a second shot with a xbow?? Not only that, but how often does someone get a second shot with bow? That's a serious question. I'm sure it happens but in my 18 years bow hunting, I've never got a second shot or heard of anybody I know getting a second shot. That's you're argument for saying crossbows are inferior???
@jeffd Why would they make hunting the rut with a lesser weapon illegal? That logic makes zero sense - ok make rut only - long and re curve... don't like that idea either do you bcs its not benefiting you
There's a difference in your argument. A compound bow is still a bow. An xbow is not. Completely different mechanics and style of shooting. If that were the case though, you can bet your ass I'd be heading to A1 Archery right now and buying myself a recurve. That's what a lot of crossbow guys don't seem to understand. They make it sound as if their right to hunt is being taken away. It's not. Go get a real bow and you can hunt with the rest of us real archers.
I was hunting with a recurve, just starting when compounds came about. Not many bowhunters, I didn't hear much complaining. Matter of fact most tried a compound and some went back. I've gone back and forth a couple of times. Both compound and tradional bows are hand held, hand released. The crossbow isn't. Has it impacted me, actually it did. I hunt public and seen more hunters than I ever have this year and I expect it to continue as long as the success rates are up there. I've been shooting my compound every day because I ended last season with a sore shoulder/arm. I dropped the weight so I could still hunt with my compound. I'm 65, so the vote wouldn't have changed things if I wanted a crossbow. But I have a son who is also bowhunts and on public land. I showed up at the spring hearing more for him than me. When I can no longer pull my bow back and release it bowhunting for me is over.
"Why are you on here asking these questions if you're not concerned?" JeffD nailed it with this question. Want proof? The proof is that 1/2pint elected to ignore the question.
as i said before i have both...i hunted 25 yrs with a compound, its only the last 2 yrs I used a xbow. I came on here thinking i could have an intelligent conversation...but as soon as i mention xbow...everyone gets their undies in a bundle and starts lashing out at me.. calling me names and say i lie? Really? So again - i will propose my question - how are xbow impacting you?
Boy I sure hope Charlie comes and clears this site out again. Time for some spring cleaning.
Why did you decide to switch? Let me guess first though... injury?
I'll answer for him Pasq,
10pntgun, because its easy and i don't have to practice. And i never get anything by actually bow hunting.
"'Why don't we have the gun season during the Rut? Because it would be a catastrophe for bucks in the state' -- not true. Manage your property better than. Last couple years the rut is still going doing gun season."
You whine about people picking on you snowflake, don't make dumbass statements like this.
MN gun hunts the rut and they haven't killed all the deer there....
@rutnstrut...how is that a dumbass statement....last 3 yrs where i hunt...the rut was still going strong during gun season...and i wasn't whining i was asking a question. But thanks
The vote is really unfortunate. I doubt the vote matters though. Just look at when the vote for xbows did not pass (multiple times) but the Legislature voted 96-0 in favor of them anyway. The vote means nothing.
Maybe there is still a chance xbows can go back to the elderly and disabled during the archery season or their season is shortened. I am skeptical because the money won once and I just don't see how the money does not win again.
The name calling in this thread is over the top. Why can't people agree to disagree in a civilized (adult) manner.
10pnt, to answer your question, I don't want crossbow to run the entire archery season for the same reason I wouldn't want rifle season to run the entire archery season. It's a superior weapon, and there are numbers out there proving that the crossbow has a higher success rate. Higher success rate equals more deer being killed. I would like to see the heard increase, not decrease. I hope that clears things up.
Also, I haven't hunted Minnesota, but from what I hear, I'll take Wisconsin. Likely because of the way they manage their seasons.
Also, I hunt private land, but what is happening around private land effects private land. Deer don't know property lines.
10pnt, this is an intelligent answer, Ravin x-gun ad is 'the new rifle', that is your answer. I hunt N.Mn. and last yr. the zone went to 1 deer only, your choice gun, bow or ml and this may be coming to Wi. Do not come on here and say you are a bowhunter, it is disrespect to the ones that got the season and the ones that hunt with the bow, that is my intelligent answer, enjoy your life.
Yes, I'm guessing 10pip is a woman or child. Sounds like he is dumber than a rock. I shot the Ravin at the Deer Expo. Pin point accuracy and it was only the 2nd shot I have taken with a scoped gun in many years. It was way more like a rifle than a bow & any one that says different is a complete moron. Why do these idiots keep coming to a bow forum? Looking for intelligent conversation she says. Obviously there is none on the x gun forum. Go away with the women & children where you belong. You are not wanted here.
I admit I shouldn't have stooped to name calling and i apologize for that. As far as having gun season when the rut is hot and heavy, it's not good. Having gun season well after the rut is one reason states like Iowa and Kansas are deer management successes.
Minnesota has a gun season smack dab in the rut!
Can anyone say that State has suffered? Seriously, I do not know, but it appears that they have not.
I agree, it SOUNDS like they sure would, but from the looks of it....they have not.
BT, you are way off on that. yes MN has suffered. I have friends and relatives in MN. They hate that gun season is right smack dab in the heat of the rut. Most serious hunters/land managers in MN this is one of their biggest gripes. The weekend warrior types love it. That way they can go out with a rifle and shoot that love struck 1.5 year old forkie. I'm not bashing anyone for shooting any deer that makes them happy. But gun season in the thick of the rut is just plain DUMB.
JJS just gave a perfect example of the danger of gun hunting during the rut. One deer a season. And, long term, I'd bet it will lead to a reduced percentage of buck's in the herd.
The most disappointing thing I see by reading some of the comments here is that many of you fail to realize or understand how important crossbows are to recruiting vertical archers. In one state that has kept those stats for a long time, the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there. Other known stats show that if kids don't begin hunting by the early teens, they likely will never hunt.
I just shake my head when I think that some would rather shun a particular type of bow instead of using it as a tool to bring young vertical archers into your ranks that will likely stay there until they get much older.
dpms, then why even bring in the x-gun? You know why you went to the x-gun, it's an easy way out!!! There should be no issue with killing a buck with one during the rut!! I can't believe the kill isn't higher, but once more people go to these things it will and that will affect all of us. IT SHOULD NOT BE THE LENGTH OF THE ARCHERY SEASON!!!! What don't you guys get.
"In one state that has kept those stats for a long time, the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there. " Where can I find the data for that????
You are right, no season should ever be shortened if objective heads prevail. In this country we are bleeding hunters. We are not backfilling our ranks with younger hunters as we lose older hunters. It is a systemic problem that will be difficult to overcome. The problem will be getting enough deer killed, not trying to limit the deer kill.
If I am understanding the numbers in Wisconsin, the archery kill is actually less now than prior to crossbow inclusion. What matters from management perspectives are total kills. Not when the deer are killed.
"In one state that has kept those stats for a long time, the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there." I find this laughable. What state? Whose study? Saying they "stay there" is a pretty broad term. How long has this study gone on? How long have they "stayed there?" What was the retention rate as compared to kids who started out with vertical bows? Without answering these, the statement has no merit.
Ohio, which has been crossbow legal for decades, has pretty detailed findings on youth and crossbows. The data was discussed quite a bit during the inclusion debate in Pennsylvania. The great majority that started out with crossbows switched to vertical bows in their teens. IRRC, it was close to 70-80%. Also national studies show that if kids don't start hunting by their early teens, likely will never hunt.
The scoped crossbows made today are far, far superior to those made ten years ago and earlier. There is no way the majority of kids starting with a modern scoped crossbow later switch to a compound as their go to weapon for archery season. A few may switch........... but the vast majority will not.
As more and more states allow crossbows, the number of crossbow hunters who also use a compound will decrease. Many stayed with a compound simply because crossbows were not allowed in other destination states, mostly out west. Those barriers are being removed in states such as Wyoming.
Whatever study is being referenced is outdated and not pertinent.
dpms - be careful...if they don't like what you are saying they will start calling you names. The herd has been declining long before xbows came into the picture. So if xbows don't belong in the 'archery' season, and should have their own season, are you willing have a shorten 'archery' season? Im all for having one tag per person each season, it will help increase the herd. There was a comment on here...'most of us hunt ml, bow and gun? why? why do you need 3 - 5 deer a year? Don't you think your part of the problem? As sportsmen, we need to stand united, regardless choice of weapon. And lobby that they get rid of some the these extra hunts and handing out so many tags to a hunter during the year. And albino - im not a child or a woman...but nice try.
My God in Heaven......dpms... your telling us cross guns will save hunting!!!!! Give it a rest. Guys this is the reason I can't stand cross gunners... THEY JUST KEEP TELLING LIES !!!
Good morning gentlemen and trolls, Why are Wisconsin Hunters listening to the drivel from people who have no say in how the season is set and supposed facts. To which there are no statistics to back them up.
If you recall, way back when this whole "Crossbow Season" issue started, we were told that the season length would be revisited after harvest data was obtained. after a number of years, the harvest information has been collected and the season will be set. It is not being shortened, nor lengthened, it is being set. The number of deer harvested with a crossbow determined that.
This was all set up when the law was passed and signed, way back when this all started. We knew going in that it would possibly be adjusted due to the harvest numbers. Now it is happening. After it is set, it will take "an act of God" to get it changed or adjusted. Which, we all know doesn't happen over night.
Time to stop the bickering, infighting and move on to protecting our "rights" as they are on constant attack from the ant-gun and anti-hunters.
Turkey season is here, go out and enjoy it, find a new hunter and introduce them to hunting.
Time to put down your grudges against fellow hunters and join together. This infighting is exactly what anti's want to see, and it doesn't help the situation.
Thank you and have a great day!
People keep saying shorten the season. I ask you, to what? If these people are as you all claim lazy millennials who sit in their basements playing video games and drinking Mountain Dew eliminate September and December hunting for those who choose to use a crossbow. Shouldn't have much effect on them, they can play more video games and drink more Mountain Dew, all the while getting fatter and diabetes. That should cause some of them to stay out of the woods altogether. Winning!
"the great majority of kids that start out with crossbows switch to vertical bows in their late teens and stay there."
LOL, How do you explain all of the adults using crossbows then???
It IS refreshing that guys from other states can take their time to come to the Wisconsin forum to save us from ourselves.
Do remember that some nonresidents own considerable land in Wisconsin, pay Wisconsin taxes, and hunt there. Some of these issues can affect their land values and hunting experiences too. What happens in Wisconsin is not just for the residents, it is for all who pay Wisconsin taxes and recreate there. Wisconsin is part of the USA.
In response to this; "The scoped crossbows made today are far, far superior to those made ten years ago and earlier. There is no way the majority of kids starting with a modern scoped crossbow later switch to a compound as their go to weapon for archery season. A few may switch........... but the vast majority will not.
Whatever study is being referenced is outdated and not pertinent. "
The facts simply show that your beliefs and assumptions are incorrect about kids that start hunting with crossbows. A good example being the stages of a hunter are well known. One of those stages is trying to use different weapons to harvest game. Most of us have gone through those stages. An objective person understands that there will be a drive for someone that starts hunting with a crossbow to try another bow. Known data does show that kids are switching to vertical equipment as they age by a large margin. Sorry the facts don't jive with your assumptions.
In response to buckmaster; "My God in Heaven......dpms... your telling us cross guns will save hunting!!!!! Give it a rest. Guys this is the reason I can't stand cross gunners... THEY JUST KEEP TELLING LIES !!!"
I never said crossbows would save hunting. If you can't stand "crossgunners", maybe you are not actually reading or trying to comprehend what some are saying? It seems hatred is trumping objectivity and civility? Those that use crossbows where they are legal are just hunters as you and I.
Where are these guys coming from & why do some keep coming back. Can't they see that we don't give a crap what they think? They obviously know nothing about bowhunting in Wisconsin & have no facts to back up their drivel. One says the population is down & one says it is up & we can't kill enough deer so we should have a nation wide season because if it works for hillbillies it will work for us. No wonder I hate x gunners. Well no so much the weapon but the type that uses them. Nobody was even trying to get rid of them. Just trying to get equality for all deer hunters. INCLUDING XGUNS. Take your preaching down the road. We will save ourselves. Now go back to your xgun site & stay. You are doing more damage than good by far. We could get better info out of Texas if needed it. No wonder we call you names. You just don't get it. And please try not to get your skirt caught in your string.
When they gave them the same season as the bow hunters, that was and is the problem.
Rut - Other than you having a "few friends and relatives" in Minnesota that don't like the gun season in the rut, WHAT statistics shows us that this is detrimental to the herd? Let me note - I like WI structure and LOVE to hunt with bow in the rut period.
Just curious however as I have seen no problems, like HUGE numbers of antlered deer taken with a firearm...because of the rut.
Any info?
@Live2Hunt - So if xbows don't belong in the 'archery' season, and should have their own season, are you willing have a shorten 'archery' season?
Why, the archery season was set for BOW's and BOWHUNTING. NOT X-GUNS. What are you not understanding?
Can you please post these studies so we can understand the facts and methodology?
Unfortunately our studies are kept on secret files by the DNR & if we ask for them we will get different numbers that they use in different situations made up only to make them look better & justify their jobs. They also can't count Bear, Wolves, Bobcat & so on. Has any of those types that use the @ sign ever told us what the difference is between a gun & an x gun is besides the x ? From my limited experience the x gun is more accurate out to 100 yards because of no recoil although I have fired both I do not hunt with either.
10.... agreements were made concerning the separate cross gun season. If any season gets shortened because of over harvest of deer.... You guys agreed to take the reduction. If down the line archery needs to take a hit then I can live with it. But I aint gonna take a hit for you wanna be archers.
dpms... you are right cross gunners are hunters GUN HUNTERS.
Buck, there hasn’t been a over harvest though. Yes it looks like the success rate is higher for xbows. BUT the overall harvest has not increased.
Mike F said the following and it does not seem to have sunk in or is being ignored.
"If you recall, way back when this whole "Crossbow Season" issue started, we were told that the season length would be revisited after harvest data was obtained. after a number of years, the harvest information has been collected and the season will be set. It is not being shortened, nor lengthened, it is being set. The number of deer harvested with a crossbow determined that.
This was all set up when the law was passed and signed, way back when this all started. We knew going in that it would possibly be adjusted due to the harvest numbers. Now it is happening. After it is set, it will take "an act of God" to get it changed or adjusted. Which, we all know doesn't happen over night."
end of quote.....
THIS PROCESS IS FOR THE SEASON TO BE SET, not changed, not shortened.
Experience and history has taught us that when two parties are in a discussion, and one is unable to discuss an issue without attacks and slights, that party does not have a solid foundation from which to develop a constructive position from. From the beginning of the crossbow debates years ago, one side has always welcomed the data, and the other side has feared the data. What we have happening is data trumping emotions, stereotypes, and assumptions. If the chosen angle of attack continues along the lines of the venom that spews forth here, I suspect the battle will be a difficult one, in the long run, for those that choose that path forward.
Also (as others have pointed out) the technology in today's xbows has changed drastically and will continue to do so. It would not surprise me if adjustments continue to be needed in the future.
So has compounds. Speeds have gone up and let off from 50% to 80+.
Guns more accurate scopes that range and calculate the hold.
Muzzleloaders that are inline and ranges of 300 yards or more.
It’s not just xbows.
This thread is just further proof of how hunters are the most divided of any hobby on the planet. And, hunting is just a hobby in the big scheme of life. IMHO, we bowhunters are by far the worst and really do border elitist status with people who want the woods all to themselves and want to dictate others' weapons of choice. It can be embarrassing at times. The personal attacks and naming calling is just ridiculous, unless you were a teenager...
Drop tine, I think the point you're missing now that has been talked about over and over is that the crossbow is a completely different weapon than a vertical bow and in two ways; It is pre drawn, and you don't have to hold it back. You shoot it in the same form you would shoot a rifle or shotgun. Much more substantial difference than the difference between a compound bow and a recurve or long bow. This is why the crossbow is not defined as archery equipment by the DNR.
I'm guessing pms can't remember that we don't want or care about his input. When you walk into a hornets do you try to talk to them or do you leave their nest alone and go home? Yes to what Jeff & Mike F said & again blame the dnr for sitting on their hands & not doing their job for a couple years as they were told until the NRB forced them to do some work & so they made up some numbers.
Happy, you should take a look at a snowmobile forum sometime. Although that mostly has to do with brand bashing... Politically, I would have to agree but I'd say it's the nature of the beast.
OMG, & then pms is talking data & emotions. We love the correct data. In fact if the correct data was used the vote would been overwhelmingly different. If you want emotions stay in your own forum & state and hold hands & sing fairy songs. Not too worry we will get the season corrected with facts not emotions, lies & out of state wanabes.
I do enjoy calling them names as that is the only part they remember. Guess I am a teenager at heart. If I wanted to talk about x guns I would invade their forum. They still haven't answered the question about x guns being different than rifles as their is none under 100 yards.
albino - who in their right mind would take a 100 yrd shot with a xbow? 90% of time you can't even see that far into the woods. Think about it. btw...aren't you on the WI bow hunting board? And you have a mouth like that? No wonder hunters get a bad name with garbage that comes out of your mouth.
Albino said ; "They still haven't answered the question about x guns being different than rifles as their is none under 100 yards. "
Lets see at 100 yards. 1- A game animal can react to the shot from a crossbow and move resulting in a miss or a poor hit. That cannot happen at 100 yards with a rifle. 2- An arrow kills by hemorrhage, not hemorrhage and hydrostatic shock from a high velocity expanding bullet. 3 - An arrow, even from the fastest crossbows, requires a significant shooting window to avoid deflection of the shot. Whereas a rifle projectile requires an opening the size of the projectile only. 4 - An arrow can drift considerably at 100 yards with even a modest breeze unlike a high velocity projectile from a rifle that will move a fraction of the distance the arrow moves. 5 - A crossbow is capable of one shot in 30 seconds, unlike a rifle where 5 or more shots can be taken in the same amount of time. Do I need to list more???? This is a good example of why folks that approach the issue as you do are not taken seriously.
I'm sure allot would 10pnt. They have the capability as advertised, it will be used or tried I should say.
Yes, that is what the x bows are advertising. They are calling it your next rifle with 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Certainly a true hunter would not take that shot but an x bow sissy would try it. That is why the wounding rate is so high on x bows. I have pics of many but don't post them. I do have pics of trespassers with x guns tracking their bad shots that I do post though. We all know how an broadhead kills, that was not the question also I did not ask how many shots some rifles can take. Some use a single shot. If you need more than one shot maybe you wait for a better opportunity. Try to stay on track. OK, now tell me the difference at 50 yards. 10 pip, it is not garbage when I am dealing with your type. You can't even tell the difference between a gun and a bow. We handed a season to you that took 70 years to get on a silver platter. Now you even want to take over our forum & don't want to let your season to be adjusted to be equal for all or give the advantage back to the elderly & handicapped including our vets. You are a greedy & disgusting.
dpms and 10pnt you're wasting your breath on this group if you haven't noticed. I've tried and its the same thing - name calling, asking if you want a participation trophy, you're not a bowhunter, etc. If your ok being labeled a deer hunter, just leave it at that! They don't address how superior the compound is to recurve and how unfair the comparison is. 80% let off, drop away rests, trigger fired releases, 4-pin sights, carbon fiber arrows, mechanical broadheads, etc. etc. The recurve guys back in the day were likely saying the same thing about this group. Technology changes and a certain group is always going to want the latest and greatest at their fingertips.
" From: albino 11-Apr-18 Yes, I'm guessing 10pip is a woman or child. Sounds like he is dumber than a rock. I shot the Ravin at the Deer Expo. Pin point accuracy and it was only the 2nd shot I have taken with a scoped gun in many years. It was way more like a rifle than a bow & any one that says different is a complete moron. Why do these idiots keep coming to a bow forum? Looking for intelligent conversation she says. Obviously there is none on the x gun forum. Go away with the women & children where you belong. You are not wanted here. "
Just wow.
The reality is many "bowhunters" also take low percentage shots. Trying to single out one user group is disingenuous. It is also a reality that a significant number of "bowhunters" practice very little before heading to the woods. That is why the two weeks just before archery season is referred to as "crazy season" by the pro shops.
Bewcrewmike said ; "dpms and 10pnt you're wasting your breath on this group if you haven't noticed"
I know. I have broad shoulders so the schoolyard attacks don't bother me much. I don't mind a good discussion sometimes and it is possible with some that feel different than I do on certain issues. I had many great discussions with members of United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania during our crossbow wars. There are some good guys and girls scattered among you all. One just has to weed through the poison ivy to get to the fruit.
I get that there is a difference between a recurve and a compound. It's definitely apparent. But a recurve and a compound are both still archery equipment that have to be drawn back (not pre-drawn) and held. A crossbow is shot the same way as a rifle or shotgun. You can even use a rest the same way. That, to me at least, puts the crossbow more similar to a rifle or shotgun than it is to a vertical bow. Either way, a compound and a recurve are much more similar than a compound and a crossbow. Completely different way of shooting and much easier to take an animal with.
albino... one thing I will never do is ever hunt with a cross gun ....NEVER.
lol, I0 pip, your mouth is no cleaner than mine. I just enjoy firing back. We are hunters you are thrill killers. This forum is for bowhunters. Even our dnr says the x bow is not archery equipment. What do you guys think you are going to gain by coming here to harass us? Do you make your self feel better about your shortcomings? I realize there is no reasoning with you because you can't understand facts. You obviously don't understand what bug off means. I see why most quit posting here. I will leave too & you guys can talk to each other. Or you could go back to the x bow forums & talk to some one that may care what you have to say. Bye Bye Fly.
Guys.... I changed my mind.... I don't want the cross gunners to leave.
Drop Tine I have a question for you ..... During the meetings are delegates on the CC and the CDAC allowed to endorse seasons and questions that are being voted on??
BT, we could just ask Bowsite's most respected and well liked mud duc er i mean MN resident. jeff in MN, what do you feel is the overall opinion of serious bowhunters in MN about gun season being the first weekend of Nov?
It amazes me how a few guys on here will not listen to anyone else's point of view! I've read all the posts and can honestly say both side have good points! some of the guys to me sound like they're worried about someone else shooting "their" buck. I hunt with a compound but i do hunt with 2 people that use a crossbow and over the past couple of years they haven't shot anymore deer than me. The people i hunt with know enough to only take ethical shots just like the rest of us! To judge anyone by the choice of the weapon they decide to use to me is just foolish! Enjoy your time in the outdoors and don't worry about what anyone else does as long as its legal!
albino - Might want to look in the mirror, the only harassing and name calling is coming from you. I hope you feel superior being a keyboard warrior.
Not trying to "harass" you 10pt, but what's the deal with all the blank posts you've been putting out?
no clue...everytime i post it posted double.
no clue...everytime i post it posted double.
Odd. On one post, there were 3 blank posts before it.
Live2hunt hit the nail on the head when he said they gave them the same season as bowhunters.
"They don't address how superior the compound is to recurve and how unfair the comparison is." Some people are particularly dense. There was no question at the hearing and there is no consideration of any season, law or rule change that pertains to compound bows. Brewcrew and the others who keep referring to this do so only because their argument for crossbows is void of any fact and logic. Maybe that is how they attempt to be relevant when their real motive is simply riddled with greed and hypocrisy.
RC sent me an email with the following. I have copied and pasted it because I agree with it 100%. "For the love of God, can somebody please tell bowsiters that the crossbow season IS NOT being shortened. Its being SET. The first few years were a trial period in which the state punted and ran the season the same length as bowhunting so as to gather data. That WAS NOT the crossbow season length. What is happening now is the setting of the crossbow season length based on harvest data. This is what the legislation that created the crossbow season set as the path for the creation of the crossbow season. Why are people not getting this?"
Because they close their ears and say la la la really loud, and keep what they think they are entitled to. Even if they know the truth, they will not admit it, or agree to it without whining to the high heavens. The lies and whining at the hearings was off the charts, the crossbow federation rep was lying through his teeth in his speech, and the whiners were whining dont take our rights!! Did I say whiners enough, lol!
"Albino" : "You are a greedy disgusting pig."
Apparently this forums moderators are not aware of their code of conduct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oldhunter, is it name calling if it is true?
Drop tine if you don't know..... thats ok... I can find out in a couple days when I go to Madison
"Oldhunter, is it name calling if it is true? "
Oldhunter forgot more about bowhunting than you will ever know "Captain"...
Buck, I believe they can if they go on the floor and announce this is their personal opinion.
They can not do it from the tables they are seated at as a representative of the CC.
DT thank you. Am checking their were a few counties that gave it a recommendation from the CC and one from cdac.
Doin some checking..... when delegates are asked their position on questions the answer they are suppose to give is WE SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPION. but..... i want to make sure before I turn them in....ya gotta love cell phones
Dang, I was trying to stay off here. The CC Chairman in Jefferson County said during the discussion "What difference does it make what weapon we use as long as we are getting more hunters".
OK, I edited out the Pig for the softies. That is a terrible name. Did you know RC shot 2 Pigs recently? OOPS, I did it again.
Young Tide Pod Eater, you know nothing about me yet you attempt to comment. That in itself shows your shallowness of thought.
Big fist fight at the Holiday gas station in Washburn this morning, all over minnows.
Samy..... its not archery.
If you come to wi to hunt you can either bow hunt during that season, or x-gun hunt during that season. You pick.
If you come to wi to hunt you can either bow hunt during that season, or x-gun hunt during that season. You pick. --- Same season!!
Same time period ..... NOT SAME SEASON.
First of Crossguns should not be in archery seasons... maybe for truly handicapped, but thats it... kids, teach them how to shoot a vertical bow ... ALL shoulder fired weapons should be in the gun seasons ... and give the damn things a separate license ...
Simple solution.
1. Vertical Bow Seasons - First week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.
2. Cross Bow Seasons - Second week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.
3. Muzzleloader Seasons - Third week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.
4. Gun Seasons - Fourth week of Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.
Equal opportunity for all. Pick your weapon and your 4 weeks. Done deal.
Matt
I don't have a dog in your Wisconsin crossbow hunt. Take this Jan 13, 2018 article for what it's worth. It may answer some questions being raised. Personally...I wouldn't pit hunters against hunters.
For first time, Wisconsin crossbow deer kill exceeds vertical bow harvest
Paul A. Smith, Milwaukee Journal SentinelPublished 9:44 a.m. CT Jan. 13, 2018
For the first time in Wisconsin, hunters using crossbows last fall killed more deer than those using vertical bows, according to preliminary 2017-'18 harvest data from the Department of Natural Resources.
In addition, the combined crossbow and archery buck harvest set a state record for antlered deer killed with bows.
Both events, though milestones, are not a surprise and represent a continuation of trends in Wisconsin and other states.
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According to DNR data from last week, the total crossbow kill was 47,086 deer in Wisconsin, while archers (using compound bows, recurves and stick bows) registered 45,034.
And the combined bow buck kill of 53,154 in 2017-'18 surpassed the previous high of 51,823 set in 2015-'16.
Hunters using crossbows took 27,371 bucks and 19,715 antlerless deer this season, while archers registered 25,783 bucks and 19,251 antlerless.
The 2017-'18 data reflect registrations as of Jan. 10, three days after the primary crossbow and archery deer seasons ended.
However, the registration figures are considered preliminary, since a few hundred deer are likely to be killed in metro zones open to hunting through the end of the month.
The use of crossbows by hunters and the number of deer harvested with crossbows increased significantly in Wisconsin after a 2013 change in state law allowed hunters of all ages and physical abilities to use the equipment. It had previously been restricted to those with disabilities or over the age of 65.
Over the last four years, the crossbow deer harvest in Wisconsin has gone from 26,891 deer (15,768 bucks and 11,123 antlerless) in 2014-'15, to 34,094 (20,594 and 13,500) in 2015-'16, to 39,776 (23,562 and 16,214) in 2016-'17 to 47,086 (27,371 and 19,715) this season.
Meanwhile, the number of deer killed with vertical bows declined from 54,810 (30,433 and 24,377) in 2014-'15, 53,004 (31,229 and 21,775) in 2015-'16, 48,272 (28,172 and 20,100) in 2016-'17 and 45,034 (25,783 and 19,251) this year.
License sales have followed the same trajectories for the two categories. Crossbow licenses increased from 69,022 in 2016-'17 to 82,660 this year (through Jan. 11), according to DNR records,
And archery licenses declined from 166,161 in 2016-'17 to 152,186 this year.
(Numbers from 2014 and 2015 are not included since an "upgrade" option was available which allowed hunters to use both crossbows and vertical bows and confound direct comparisions).
The license sales figures from the last two years don't tell the full story, either, as they don't include conservation patron license holders (46,805 resident patrons in 2017-'18) who have crossbow and archery privileges.
It's unknown how many patron holders used crossbows or vertical bows, according to the DNR.
In a survey sent out this month to bowhunters, the DNR is for the first time gathering data on crossbow use and effort.
Such information is necessary to estimate hunter success rates. Although wildlife managers assume higher success rates among crossbow deer hunters than vertical bow users, Wisconsin officials said they'd wait to see the results of in-state work before discussing such differences.
A deer hunter carries a crossbow as he walks to a standBuy Photo A deer hunter carries a crossbow as he walks to a stand in Marquette County. (Photo: Paul A. Smith)
While some crossbow details are being researched in Wisconsin, it's already clear the trends in the Badger State are mirroring experiences elsewhere.
Michigan, for example, has allowed crossbow use during its archery deer season since 2009. The first year, 19% of hunters used a crossbow during the Michigan archery deer season. The percentage increased to 37% in 2011, 44% in 2012 and 50% in 2013.
In Ohio, where crossbows have been legal for all hunters to use during a four-month archery deer season since 1982, about 55% of hunters use crossbows.
Increased crossbow use in Michigan also corresponded with fewer gun deer license sales and more bucks being killed earlier in the year, according to state officials.
The same shifts have been observed in Wisconsin, as gun deer licenses dropped below 600,000 in the last two years, lowest in more than 35 years.
And as evidenced by the record bow buck kill this season, more hunters are taking antlered deer with arrows and bolts than ever before. Most bow-killed bucks in Wisconsin are taken before the nine-day gun hunt in November.
Although there is no data to substantiate it at this point, some Wisconsin hunters who traditionally only hunted in the gun season might be opting to use a crossbow earlier in the year. And, if successful, they might not buy a gun license.
All of this, of course, is playing out against a backdrop of generally lower participation in hunting .
In fact, claims by crossbow proponents that the equipment would lead to a net increase in hunters hasn't been borne out in Wisconsin.
Overall deer-license sales have fallen over the last few years, including a drop from 833,990 in 2016-'17 to 824,505 this season.
A crossbow is sighted-in from an elevated stand.Buy Photo A crossbow is sighted-in from an elevated stand. (Photo: Michael Sears)
Anecdotally, however, crossbows are helping keep some deer hunters in the woods later in life and helping to re-engage some vertical bow hunters who quit years ago.
The average ages of crossbow and archery license buyers in Wisconsin is 50 and 35, respectively, according to a sample from the 2014 season.
This year's deer harvest also continues a decades-long trend toward an increasing percentage of the buck kill occurring during the bow seasons.
In 1967, bow hunters took 1,714 bucks, 2% of the total antlered kill that year. In 1977, the numbers increased to 16,790 and 7%. In 1987, it was 21,278 and 15%. In 1997, 26,812 and 23%. And in 2007, 38,000 and 22%.
All of this increase took place before crossbow use was expanded. In 2013, the last year before crossbows were legal for all hunters, archery hunters killed 41,517 bucks, 29% of the antlered deer kill that year.
This year, the 53,154 bow buck kill was 34% of the total antlered deer harvest.
And the total bow kill (antlered and antlerless, crossbow and vertical bow) of 92,120 deer was 30% of the 2017-'18 Wisconsin deer harvest.
As seen in Ohio and Michigan, crossbow use shifts hunting effort and deer kill earlier in the year, but hunters using firearms still kill the majority of the deer.
The Wisconsin DNR hopes to have results of its bowhunters survey available by mid-year.
JTV they do have a separate license
as they should, put them with the guns and keep BOWhunting vertical .......
But also can use a vertical bow or switch over for $3
This is why I call the x-gun the transgender method, is it a he or she just do no know, at least the state defined it not to be in the bow season and Pat needs to delete here as in the past since it is not define as a bow.
"Fellow hunters what a great day to be a bow hunter.."
Buckmaster, I understand your position on the subject. But crapping all over your "fellow hunters" because you dont agree with their choice of weapon is foolish. There may come a day when your "fellow hunters" may be able to stand with you and bolster a situation that affects you. Keep insulting folks the way do, and you'll be all alone if you ever need their support. We all need to stick together when it come to protecting our right to hunt...Regardless of an individual's preferred method.
Nothing personal...just sayin'!
70lbdraw....Thank u for the advice. But...I wish fellow hunters from other states would worry about their state and let Wisconsin sportsmen worry about theirs. I know all the cross gun lovers come here just to sing kum bi ya. look at the ravin cross gun. I WILL NEVER HUNT WITH A CROSS GUN ITS NOT ARCHERY Nothing personal.... just sayin
"What does it matter which weapon your fellow sportsman/women choose to use during the BOW hunting season." Comprehension certainly seems to be a common trait among crossbow supporters. Let me try and help. It is a BOW season time frame. Designed as a hunting period when deer are more vulnerable. Crossbows are not bows. This seems to be difficult to comprehend for the emotional thinkers but is really not so hard to comprehend, at least not for the logical thinkers.
Well said Capt. Its comprehension issues for sure not understanding the term BOW.
All the x-gun users and all who bowhunt this state should read History Of Wisconsin Bowhunting by Bill McCrary. Maybe you will understand how we got a Bow Season in this state, and why Bowhunters are upset. There are years of work and dedication to the sport that you are unaware of that even give you the opportunity to hunt our season with x-guns.
All the x-gun users and all who bowhunt this state should read History Of Wisconsin Bowhunting by Bill McCrary. Maybe you will understand how we got a Bow Season in this state, and why Bowhunters are upset. There are years of work and dedication to the sport that you are unaware of that even give you the opportunity to hunt our season with x-guns.
I see they are still here & getting dumber each time. They must want to be hunters really bad. The season will be adjusted & we will still not want them here. We can't even get the true facts & numbers but they read it on the internet & are instant experts. It is so simple. You have a Million Forums. You got your bowhunters, you got you Mustang Forum, you got your Corvette Forum, you got your crossbow forum, you got your crossdresser forum. Everyone has a Happy place. Just because they both say cross that does not mean they are the same. I would much prefer the xdressers on here than the xbowers. DO YOU GET IT YET?
Buckmaster, I lived in Sun Prairie for 15 years and still own that home. I may be back one day. I loved Wisconsin, but my ability to bowhunt depended on knowing someone that would allow me to hunt their land, or be stuck in a public zone with 6 guys hunkered down within 25 yards of me. Even if hunting with a rocket launcher was legal. So I still have a vested interest in WI hunting laws. I dont care about the new fangled stuff, but I care about the sport. And WI has soms damn good laws compared to other places I've lived. Not only do you get 1 deer, but you have to enter a lottery against thousands of others just to get a fighting chance.The liberals in WI do a good enough job of driving a wedge between themselves and folks like us. To act them when it comes to hunting, does us no good at all.
Live2hunt if I leave Monday for my turkey hunt and ice fishing trip I think I will pick one up.
Buck, you should, its a good read.
"Maybe you will understand how we got a Bow Season in this state, and why Bowhunters are upset. There are years of work and dedication to the sport that you are unaware of that even give you the opportunity to hunt our season with x-guns."
Not all bowhunters are upset, I'm guessing most don't even care that they have to share the rut with a few other hunters these days. The loud repetitive posting ones in this thread calling names/etc although not the norm out in the real world their posts come across as very angry and out of sorts which is a bit amusing to read. Anyway, the part of your post that is incorrect is where you say that crossbow hunters hunt "our season with x-guns." From what I understand those crossbow hunters are hunting their own season, a "separate" season that just happens to take place during the exact same time period as "your" season. I'm sure someone else here can explain to you how wonderful this separate season is better than I can but I remember hearing about how great it would be since it is separate from "your" season. Why isn't everyone happy and cheering and thanking those that were involved with creating this "separate" season?
"I'm sure someone else here can explain to you how wonderful this separate season is better than I can but I remember hearing about how great it would be since it is separate from "your" season. greedhunterrrr, pay attention to what is going on with the NRB and you MIGHT comprehend why giving x-bows is and was such a great idea. The comprehension issues are symptomatic of you and your fellow x-bow hunters, not that of bow hunters. No thanks needed, I am happy to help!
How many times does it have to be repeated before the crybaby whiners can comprehend. It is not our archery season, it`s open to anyone, ANYONE!
Simple, just buy a real BOW, practice, make it a great part of your life, dedicate yourself to become as proficient as possible, and hunt the nice long ARCHERY season.
IT`S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!
Its not a right, it is a privilege! There is a long season precisely BECAUSE the weapon is harder to kill with, it has limits. We limit everything in hunting, 3 shot plugs, size of rifle caliber, bag limits etc. It was never meant to be a management tool, it has a longer season because it is supposed be a challenge. It was fought for on that basis.
Of course the crossgun whiners all know all this, but they need to throw up all the gray areas and silly straw men to try to get what they think they are entitled to.
What I can't understand is why they keep coming back. There is no way they are goin to change anyones mind. Actually.... they motivate me and Im sure the rest of us.
"greedhunterrrr, pay attention to what is going on with the NRB and you MIGHT comprehend why giving x-bows is and was such a great idea. The comprehension issues are symptomatic of you and your fellow x-bow hunters, not that of bow hunters. No thanks needed, I am happy to help! "
Captmike, that's cute what you did with my name, very witty for a 12 year old. Speaking of comprehension issues I've stated here before that I don't hunt with a crossbow, I would think you'd know that since you stalk anyone's posts that don't agree with you. I hunt with a high-tech "primitive" compound. I imagine there are a few guys that might be thanking you when and if the DNR decides too many deer are being killed (hard to say that without laughing) and shortens the crossbow season but again those guys are the minority and simply too greedy to share "their" rut with other hunters.
Hunter, x-guns don't have a "season" yet. They are trying to decide a season. They just lumped it in with the bow season. Do you understand that.
So the crossbow season that runs during the same time as the archery season is not really a crossbow season? "Lumped in with the bow season" sounds like full inclusion, which I kept hearing didn't happen either. Apparently I don't understand. Maybe the 6 or so of you angry hunter haters that are jealous that other hunters are having a chance at your easy to kill rutted up bucks can explain it in a different way so we all can understand. BTW what is a x-gun? Do you mean a crossbow?
Yep, I see you clearly don't understand any of it. I hope they open up the season for all weapons. Your mindset is sad, no effort, easy kill. The mindset of all x-gun hunters, right?
Explain... explain ... explain... like talking to a block of wood.
YUP. +1+1+1, I think that equals 4. ( I'm assuming the Yup is the first +).... HUH? I keep hoping they will be gone away from a bowhunting site. WOW they are dense. I am guessing they are members of the wolf patrol.
Buck - no one here is trying to change your mind. Just trying to get a sense..so if xbows don't belong in archery season...when should the season be? Are you really that biased towards a xbow or you just don't like hunters using them in the archery season bcs they aren't 'bows' ?
10 pt- do you also believe a 3rd air bow season should run concurrent with the xgun and bow season? If no, why not?
Honestly, it wouldn't matter to me. I could careless what my neighbor or other hunters are hunting with as long as its legal.
There is no biological or scientific reason to alter the season.
If there is, please share the study.
Overall kill is down, bow kill is down, crossbow is up and just shows a shift in the tool used. I’m sorry but the crossbow eclipsing the bow kill by 2000 animals in a herd of 1.4M does not show a need to do anything.
Greedhunterrr, ivecread your posts enough here to know you converse at a twelve year old's level so I just dumbed it down so you had a chance to understand.
Drop tine- what is the main reason for xguns besides hunters with a disability? If you don't care about weapon choice, then your for airbows, rifles, or anything in our bow season.
RJN, no that is only for his wife. He is a pure bow hunter! ;)
Capt. Give me a science or biological based fact that there is a reason to make change and I can accept that. The BS you spout off on brings nothing to the table.
And yes I’m a “pure” bowhunter. I actually just found my first hunting bow and I’m going to slap a string on it and for giggles attemp to kill another deer with it. Then if successful I’ll try and get one with my dads Bear Kodiak.
Dt- what is the main reason for xguns for all during the bow season?
I'll ask again . Why do the pro crossbow people continue to hang around a BOWSITE . Go find a crossbow site & STAY there .
Because at this time I don’t see it hurting a thing. In a herd of 1.4M deer this is the percentage difference in the kill between bow and crossbow. It’s a pimple on a elephants butt.
"Because at this time I don’t see it hurting a thing. In a herd of 1.4M deer this is the percentage difference in the kill between bow and crossbow. It’s a pimple on a elephants butt."
That's a whole different thread/subject as you are very naive if you believe what the DNR tells you are in the state for deer numbers.
Oh wow... do you really believe those numbers Drop? Look at that picture of the crossbow someone provided Drop and tell me that shouldn't be in a rifle season before archery. Not even close to being bow like and everyone knows it.
Pasq,
I’ll say it once again. The overall kill is down. The bow kill is down, the crossbow kill is up only reflecting the shift of the tool being used.
As I said show me something based on biology or science that a change needs to be made and I can accept that. Everything I read here gives me nothing but a headache.
Pas..... I agree with you 110%
Studies show that actual success rates with crossbows is virtually the same as the success rate with vertical bows (somewhere between 30-35%). Therefore if everyone that currently shoots a vertical bow were to switch to a crossbow, the kill would be very close to the same.
Where is the major crossbow advantage?
KPC
cross guns are not archery
What do you base that on buckmaster69? Your opinion?
A crossbow meets the definition of a bow:
bow
a weapon for shooting arrows, typically made of a curved piece of wood whose ends are joined by a taut string.
synonyms: longbow, crossbow; recurve
A crossbow bolt meets the definition of an arrow:
ar·row
a shaft sharpened at the front and with feathers or vanes at the back, shot from a bow as a weapon or for sport.
synonyms: shaft, bolt, dart
Therefore using them would meet the definition of archery:
ar·cher·y
the sport or skill of shooting with a bow and arrows, especially at a target.
KPC
K, your figures are flawed if looked at as a percentage of hunters.
Percentage of hunters is irrelevant when the
success rate is the same.
If 35 out of a hundred bowhunters are successful with a vertical bow, that's a 35% success rate. If 35 out of a hundred bowhunters are successful with a crossbow, that;s a 35% success rate. If there are a 200,000 bow hunters, they are going to kill 70,000 deer regardless of whether they all use crossbows, they all use vertical bows, or they use any combination of either.
It's basic math.
KPC
The math calculation is correct, your numbers are wrong. Why are so many crossbow users flocking to this site to spew lies and deceit?
Drop I can't and won't comment on science etc. I understand the need for science etc but I am not smart enough or willing to study it. I try and keep things simple in life and I guess that includes knowledge and my brain.
I have been chastised about only relying on "logical emotions" before and good with it each time.
I am asking you to set aside your numbers or need for science a minute. Look at that picture on here and tell me it belongs in the bow hunting season with a straight face. I truly believe you agree it doesn't.
It's very funny how the xbows guys from other states are piling in to try and defend like Capt. said.
Here is what you crossbow lovers don't get. Say the average bowhunter has an opportunity at a certain amount of bucks in a season. The added difficulty of using a real bow allows a higher percentage of those encounters to live. The superior weapon that more "hunters" are switching to is easier to use therefore more efficient.
I don't want to hear about how easy it is to shoot a compound. If it was that easy, the crossbow lovers that are arguing that would be using one instead of a crossbow. Some things in life are sweeter when you work harder for them. But that seems to be forgotten in today's society.
"The math calculation is correct, your numbers are wrong. Why are so many crossbow users flocking to this site to spew lies and deceit?"
My numbers are contained in this article.
Furthermore, I'm not a "crossbow user." I've hunted exclusively with a recurve for decades. I have never hunted with a crossbow in my life, nor do I have any desire to hunt with one.
Ten years ago, I was as adamant about NOT wanting crossbows in the regular archery season as anyone. I believed all the doomsday predictions. After seeing the actual numbers, I've come to the conclusion that it was much ado about nothing. On a list of the top 5 things that pose the most risk to bowhunting, I would put crossbows at about number 11.
KPC
Don't you just love it ,,,,, no one hunts with them but they want you to accept them in Wisconsin. KPC.... you are so full of $hit.
"Here is what you crossbow lovers don't get. Say the average bowhunter has an opportunity at a certain amount of bucks in a season. The added difficulty of using a real bow allows a higher percentage of those encounters to live. The superior weapon that more "hunters" are switching to is easier to use therefore more efficient."
Here's what you don't get. The actual statistics don't bear that out. The success rates between the two are about the same.
"I don't want to hear about how easy it is to shoot a compound. If it was that easy, the crossbow lovers that are arguing that would be using one instead of a crossbow. Some things in life are sweeter when you work harder for them. But that seems to be forgotten in today's society."
Here is where arguments based on emotion fail. Being a traditional bowhunter, couldn't I say the same thing about those using compounds?
KPC
KPC.... you are so full of $hit.
Show me. I showed you where I got my numbers from, show me where I'm "full of $shit."
KPC
KC, ignore Buck. He’s like a dog, all bark and no bite and brings nothing to the debate.
DT at least I don't lie about having a agenda at the sprig hearings.
Kpc- what is your reason for allowing xguns to be used by all hunters during the bow season. You are also like dt, hunterr, that believe any weapon should be used including the air bow? I keep asking the question but all I get is who cares as long as the #s are the same.
"Some things in life are sweeter when you work harder for them. But that seems to be forgotten in today's society." If thats true, how come everyone isnt still shooting trad bows? Why did everyone go to compounds? Added challenge? Thats the whole problem. Compound users complaining about people making it easier..... Of course nobody is going to listen to it. I despise whats happened with crossbows, but when a guy shooting a 30" a.t.a. high tech compound starts throwing a tantrum about people "cheating" there way into the sport, I dont take it seriously either. As I said before, the uninterrupted tech advancement in compound bows that "bowhunters" have been cheering on for many years is the reason we ended up where we are today. The pot is now arguing with the kettle.
Who did Buck, if your insulating that I did you’re so full of chit it’s overflowing. I didn’t even speak at the hearing other than to accept the nomination to another 3 year term.
The rest of the time I was out front working the table handing out booklets and answering questions. Then remained out front to collect ballots of people leaving early and thanking them for attending.
Quit riding on the shirttails of others like Capt. Your embarrassing them with your lack of knowledge and single sentence insults.
"Kpc- what is your reason for allowing xguns to be used by all hunters during the bow season. You are also like dt, hunterr, that believe any weapon should be used including the air bow? I keep asking the question but all I get is who cares as long as the #s are the same."
I have no reason for wanting them or not wanting them other than to help stem the tide of dwindling hunter numbers.
Same with compounds. I don't use them, have no desire to use them, but others do and I'm good with that.
Not sure about the airbow. Haven't given it much thought.
KPC
This thread is proof that bowhunting, as defined by the P&Y Club, is going right down the sheeter.
Mr Cummings - all due respect but I smell a skunk within your answers.
"Here's what you don't get. The actual statistics don't bear that out. The success rates between the two are about the same."
Yet the actual statististics do in fact show that crossbows used during the archery season are a superior weapon.
K Cummings, from the very bottom of the article you cite I found this. So tell us, just who is Adam Preston and what qualifies his article as the be all, end all? If you want to see accurate numbers, watch the video from the link that Tweed posted regards the NRB Board meeting. "Editor’s Note: If your business caters to deer hunters, it’s pretty clear that getting into some aspect of the crossbow market makes sense. For more perspective on crossbows’ impact on the hunting industry, read this previous blog by Adam Preston."
"Quit riding on the shirttails of others like Capt. Your embarrassing them with your lack of knowledge and single sentence insults." DT, I am not embarrassed by a man who understands and respects what archery is. You on the other hand, when you call yourself a bow hunter, turn me a pale shade of red.
Again can Capt. Bring some science or a biological reason the season needs adjusting that I can accept. The fact you have dodged this for a few days now reflects that you have nothing to back your personal resentment to those that use crossbows to hunt. Pretty petty that you take opportunities away from people like my wife and youths.
Just because crossbow hunters killed 2000 more bucks than bowhunters is not a reason.
"Mr Cummings - all due respect but I smell a skunk within your answers."
Really? What might that be?
CaptMike:
I don't know Adam Preston from a cake of soap. I base my opinions on my experience here in MI and the articles that I read.
KPC
Good luck with your voting down the use of crossbows during the general archery season.
Their impact will be negligible in the beginning, as were the compounds when they first were allowed, and now look at the compound numbers, over 90%. Slowly their crossbow numbers will grow until they equal or out number compounds. Traditional bowhunting is no longer even in this dog fight as they currently make up only 3% or 4% of bowhunting today.
My objections: 1. Crossbow hunters will walk around and then climb it and out of deer stands, with a loaded Crossbow.
2. Crossbows will essentially shrink and end the growth of bowhunting
3. At least 75 TX hunters have cut their thumb off using a crossbow.
4. The crossbow, and high-fence, are not the "salvation for the future of hunting" as claimed.
JMO
KPC I believe you are a troll from Crossbow Nation.
"I don't know Adam Preston from a cake of soap. I base my opinions on my experience here in MI and the articles that I read." You don't know him but you reference him and post a link to his article? You have just marginalized yourself to troll status.
Good grief you guys are paranoid.
That just happened to be the first article I found when I googled "success rates crossbows vs compound bows."
If you want the actual harvest reports, Michigan statistics can be found here:
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/3485_236922_7.pdf
In 2007 (pre- crossbow inclusion) overall bowhunting success rates were 34.6%. (page 34)
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2016_deer_harvest_survey_report_575841_7.pdf
In 2016 (crossbow inclusion) the overall crossbow success rate was 33.6%. (page 57)
As to me being some kind of crossbow troll, give me a break. Do a search for my name on the Leatherwall (K Cummings or GEREP) and you will see my thousands of posts over there since about 2000. Or Archery Talk Traditional Forum (where I go by GEREP) since about 2003.
I will repeat, I have never hunted with a crossbow, nor do I have any desire to hunt with a crossbow, nor do I stand to benefit in any way from crossbows in the archery season. The numbers are the numbers, that's all I'm interested in.
KPC
"If you want the actual harvest reports, Michigan statistics can be found here:' This is a WI forum and the topic regards crossbows in WI. I did not post the article, you did and you referenced it. Now I will take Kevin's advice and let you be.
Must be the City Stats like the City Slicker Pauly Smit. That wrote da udder article. You form da city boy? I think those huggers are pretty shaky for some reason.
Oh Wow Man, I think I got a @TWICH. I better get a x gun dude.
Thank You KK. Bye hey. Don't come back now ya here?
Hey guys, show them your nuts & maybe they will leave. lol
"Hey guys, show them your nuts & maybe they will leave." Or, they may flock to me like the squirrels they are.
Mr short Cummings said " Good grief you guys are paranoid"
Uh... look at the out of state xgun users on the Wisconsin site trying to state how they love them.
Who's paranoid?
KPC is not a crossbow shooter. He shoots high tech recurves, and is pretty good at it. He just happens to be one of the community forum regulars who loves to debate and pretend he owns the high road. He and a few others are just having fun at our expense, there is even a thread there poking fun at us. Pretty much reminds me of the trolls mister high road is always telling them to ignore.
Cumming, you are a joke. You keep talking about "actual statistics" yet you still have none. Go cut some wood.
Once again, what is obvious is that many on this forum are really crossbow enthusiasts, closet users, and liberal hunter enablers.
You other guys who are real bowhunters are wasting your breath. I would move on and accept the bowhunting challenge without all the technology to handicap your efforts. It is a lot more fun to be a part of Comptons Archers than it is to fight the losing battle against crossbows and the Liberals who gave bowhunting and the associated culture away. You know the type, I own a crossbow but never use it. I bought it for my kids, friends, wife, father and,......just in case I ever get a herniated belly button and have to use a crossbow.
"Must be the City Stats like the City Slicker Pauly Smit. That wrote da udder article. You form da city boy? I think those huggers are pretty shaky for some reason."
"Hey guys, show them your nuts & maybe they will leave." Or, they may flock to me like the squirrels they are. "
"Oh Wow Man, I think I got a @TWICH. I better get a x gun dude."
"KPC..... You are full "
Some of you "real" bowhunters come across as lacking in the brain-cell-connected department, here's hoping anyone reading here doesn't think all "real" bowhunters are this stupid.
"KPC is not a crossbow shooter. He shoots high tech recurves, and is pretty good at it. He just happens to be one of the community forum regulars who loves to debate and pretend he owns the high road. He and a few others are just having fun at our expense, there is even a thread there poking fun at us. Pretty much reminds me of the trolls mister high road is always telling them to ignore.
I don't say this often longbowbud but that is a lie. Everyone is welcome to go to that thread and they will clearly see that I did not poke fun at anyone, nor have I called anyone names, or personally attacked anyone.
Yes, there is enough of that to go around, both on this thread and that one, but not by me. I have not done it there and I have not done it here. My only interest in this was to discuss the facts and statistics as I see them and have experienced them.
Carry on now. I said I wasn't going to participate here any longer but I'm not going to allow you to lie about what I've done.
KPC
Look at the title of the thread, fun on the WI forum. You cant help but participate, you need to prove your superior high road intellect. Its what you always do on the community forum. Of course you had to come here and show us.
ttt - this one needs to hit 500 posts. There is far more name calling that can occur yet to prove to the antis how united and elitist hunters are...
"You cant help but participate, you need to prove your superior high road intellect. Its what you always do on the community forum."
If you think factual posts are an attempt to prove ones "superior high road intellect," that says more about you than it does about me.
Along those same lines, maybe your real bow hunting brethren on the compound side would be interested in knowing how you speak about them in other circles.
"I may not be able to drive tacks at 80 meters like some awesome internet shots on here, but at least I dont turn to a compound when the going gets tough like some of the sallys on here, lol. It`s hard to take advice from guys who turn to a compound when they REALLY want to get serious about hunting."
KPC
And I will still defend their right to shoot any bow in the archery season. As long as it is a bow of course. String guns need not apply lol. You want to post my address and profile right away? That will prove your superior!
That was actually a dig at trad wannabees, your superior, holier than though skivvies are showing lol.
Happy you trash Capt for "caving for cash" and then come here preaching about anti seeing us divided blah blah. I'm sorry, I don't believe xgun belong in bow season and emotions run high at times. That's one of the many issues in today, accepting things just because it either doesn't personally affect you or its the "right" thing to do. Sorry I see it differently.
Stupid is the international language of x bowers. They obviously can't understand English. They should go back under the rock with the rest of the low level scum.
OH NO!!! Did the KCUP CAVEMAN call us brethren?????????? His colors are starting to show. I see you lurking in there. You can't hind your stupidity. You came here why? To see if we gave a crap about your opinion but won't leave when you cant baffle us with your BS. Or was it to call us names. Wawawawawawa. Go back to your original planet & start over as a Grape. Thank You, we got a handle on it here.
one thing KPC always tries to do, is show his mental superiority over all those he deems to be lesser than him... just looking a face value of the crossbow argument, he tries to show his higher intellect here .... I BOW hunt for the challenge, bow seasons were set up to be longer because it IS harder to take deer with the vertical bows... many deer get past me every season using vertical bows, that would be easily killed with a crossbow or a firearm... I no longer use a firearm for deer (I do for other critters), because I like the challenge the vertical BOWS give me... ALL shoulder fired weapons/tools should be in the gun seasons... that is my opinion, and it will never change... I wish luck to Wisc. as my state years back bowed to the lobby of the crossgunners ...
"Happy you trash Capt for "caving for cash" and then come here preaching about anti seeing us divided blah blah." And the real irony is that there is not one tiny shred of truth to the B.S. that Happy wrote. Since I can remember, he comes on here attempting to take the high road while injecting his own vitriol.
And KPC, mr. superior intellect high road, you talk about keeping older hunters in the fold. The proposal we are debating does NOTHING to change the season for older folks or anyone disabled. It is proven crossguns do not help recruit new people if you look at overall numbers. It is a shift. We arent talking about taking away the crossgun, we have already lost that battle. Maybe if you knew what proposal was on the table, to set the crossgun season, you would not need to interject your uninformed opinion.Then again that would prove you arent the smartest guy in the room.
So KPC if a compound is SO easy. You should be able to pick one up and out shoot the best competitive archers in the world. I mean they practically shoot themselves, right?
You have the wrong guy RutnStrut. I never said anything close to that. It was longbowbud that implied that about the compound shooters. You know, the ones he called “Sallys.”
KPC
Heeeee's back. I thought you said you were leaving?
I just joined and wanted to give my two cents. I am born and raised in wi. and bowhunted since 1963. I have shot recurves then compound and now crossbow. I HAD to start shooting crossbow since 2005 because of a disability. If I had a choice I would be shooting recurve but that is impossible. I feel that everyone should have a choice on what they shoot. If there are any elitists, it would be straight bow shooters. Instinctive shooting to me is the ultimate. That is my personal opinion. That being said, if they wouldhave had bow shooters and compound shooter tags when compounds came out you would have seen upwards of 90% taken with compounds. The compound is a huge jump from the stick bow days so please stop the elitist attitudes because your all lying to yourselves if you think that your the Fred Bear of the hunting woods. The compounds of today ONLY have the draw left and that is with a huge let off to compare to the stick bow shooters. You all just tend to look the other way on that issue. Crossbows are just another step. And, if it lets people enjoy hunting so be it. Feel free to tear it apart. I said what had to be said.
Jake my guess is you are of age to use one and disabled. Can you tell me why you decided to join now and comment? Long time lurker right?
Jake- people with disabilities have always been able to use xguns. Bows have to be drawn and xguns are shoulder fired, thats the huge difference.
Anyone ever notice that a lot of the people hunting with crossbows either don't have the "bow" in their trophy pics, or it's tucked away? They say "arrowed a nice one" but hide the weapon. Yet bowhunters usually have the bow displayed front and center. Kind of like the bait guys never proclaim how they shot their deer over a corn pile.
I heard on CBN about this site and was curious as to what you vertical shooters had to say. For the life of me, your not all that special so I thought that I would give my perspective. I was a vertical bow shooter at one time. This site is open to anyone is it not? You do want all sides heard right?
Yes RJN, I do understand how the rules of wi. work. And yes I do know the compounds pull back at a faction of the pull of a stick bow. I pointed that out in my first post. By the way that is the only thing that vaguely resembles a stick bow.
Trust us, we've heard it from enough of the xgun supporters on this site. Back to CBN please, and take some of these guys with, dt, hunterr, kpc, etc.
No not really. I could care less about xgun information or input or perspective. This is a bow site as sooo many have said. Nothing personal against you Jake but you won't see me on whatever sight you came from talking about shooting a bow.
RJN, why should I go to CBN? I don’t own or shoot a crossbow and as a matter of fact I’m attempting to shoot traditional equipment this fall if my shoulders allow me to become proficient enough to hunt. If not I’ll use my Bowtech another season. :P
Again KPC, are you daft? The dig I made was making fun of the stickbow elitists (like you) that talk about their awesome skills, and then go to a compound when the serious hunting is to be done. And of course the post was pretty much in jest, hence the lol. Maybe you need a smiley face so you can understand. Try again, MR high road. You want to dig up some more things to try and bolster your point, maybe post my isp?
Jake, how bout we have rifles and airbows in the archery season, you know, if it feels good, do it? Just another way to enjoy deer hunting right? Save the stickbow elitist crap too, most here are compound shooters. Your season will not be affected if you are disabled or senior, how many times do you need to hear it?? My God, I feel im back at the spring hearings hearing the deaf whiners! READ THE QUESTION AND PROPOSAL IN QUESTION! YOU WILL NOT BE AFFECTED!!
Pasquinell, I am sure that you have not come on any crossbow sites but we have had others frequent the site. I am always interested in opinions and that is why I came here. Again, you guys are really not special. Stick bow shooters got it going and you guys are being hypocritical saying that there is some resemblance to a stick bow. So please drop the better than thou opinion. In fact if you set your ego's aside crossbows and stick bows have been around much longer than the wheels and pulleys and mechanical releases and jazzed up sights that your using today. By the way are any of you using the new sights by Garmin? Check it out. It is right up your alley.
DT, dont care what you shoot but honestly, a stickbow was better on my shoulder the a compound bow. Something about the rollover of a cam/wheel that was murder on my right shoulder, stickbow, not bad. And that is after painting and spraying lacquer for almost 40 years(still am). Just an fyi. Back to the regular scheduled bowfight.
Jake, we are not special so would you please be special and leave?
No thanks CaptMike, I am not special but have an opinion like everyone else. If they really want credible change they should make it a one buck season and let the person decide for themselves what they should carry. THAT would flush the greed factor of taking one with vertical bow crossbow and gun. Then there would be more than enough for everyone. You all know that it will not happen because the DNR would lose revenue. To honest and direct.
Dt- you may not shoot a xgun but you support the use of all hunters using them during the archery season. A superior weapon included in the archery season is going to have a huge negative impact on our archery season in the future. Since you support that, maybe it's time to move onto xgun nation.
RJN, and so said the stick shooter when they saw the compound bow. Superior weapon. LOL
" The dig I made was making fun of the stickbow elitists (like you) that talk about their awesome skills, and then go to a compound when the serious hunting is to be done."
Three lies in one sentence. That's pretty impressive. Can you go for four?
"Daft?
In what parallel universe would a person who advocates for everyone being able to hunt with the bow of their choice (vertical or horizontal) be a "stickbow elitist" and someone who calls compound shooters "Sallys" not be one?
KPC
Jake- when I was 16 yrs old I bought a car for $350. I now own a car that's much nicer and drives better. The point is they are both cars when xguns are a totally different weapon than a bow. If I used a xgun and was not disabled I would feel like I cheated on my wife with my cousin. Lol
I guess you are just an idiot, or purposely being obtuse. You are getting into the weeds because you came here not knowing the issue at hand to show us your superior high road skills and show us how we are all wrong and you are right.
CaptMike...Rjn..longbowbud....Pas....RutnStrut....albino lot of good posts. The one JTV sent shoots like a rifle says it best.
The guys begging people to leave this forum so they don't have to read differing opinions make me laugh, why not just ignore posts you don't like and can't handle reading and that make you cry and/or bring out your anger issues?
The wheels on the bus go round & round. Someone actually said that the xbows have been around for longer than the wheel bows. Most of the xbows have wheels. None are like Willie Tells. Was there an issue when they went from the longbow to the recurve? I hunt a compound because I am handicapped. I shoot my recurve for fun, both hurt pretty bad but I wouldn't use a gun during bow season. I shot an x bow. It is a gun. If you don't like this post please ignore it or my anger issues will come back plus I am right. RJN, that must have been a nice ride. My 63 Chevy only cost $50.00.
RJN your vertical bow is nothing like a stick bow. Really! Take a crossbow and turn it to vertical and you have what your shooting plus 20% of hold at the draw. Not a heck of a lot of difference. In fact the vertical bow is must closer in function to a crossbow than a stick bow. You just wish it was. Like I said, make it a one buck shoot whatever weapon that you want and be done with it. No, that would strike to close to the heart of the matter.
Denserrrr, we are doing things where it matters. With the lawmakers. You continue to come here and offer your baseless opinions, they give us amusement.
Most people start calling names when they lose the argument. LOL
Most people start calling names when they lose the argument. LOL
When i see an able bodied person with or talking about their crossgun i get the same feeling i get when i see someone with no handicapped placard parking in a handicapped parking stall.
Jake - last time to spell it out to you. A bow is physically drawn, an xbow you raise it up to your shoulder, look through a scope, and pull the trigger. I have shot a xgun at 40 yds and the 1st 5 shots the bolts were almost touching. I have to practice a lot to be very consistent with my compound at 40. Huge difference!
If your all that jump to a stick bow, your able bodied right. I hate that when I see a able bodied man shoot a mass of cables and pulleys when he could be shooting a stickbow. See how easy it is to put down another hunter. Make it a one buck any weapon season. The gun hunters will go back to their guns and some vertical bow guys will come back to the fold. All we are getting now is the possibility of three bucks per hunter and that is what is wrong seriously..
The new-to-bowsite xbow guys are playing a whole lot of people on here like fiddles. So many panties in wads. So many adults being lowered to intellects less than their grandkids. Hell, there's even another board's thread laughing at y'all. Gotta pop some more corn and continue to watch this one play out. I'm thinking 600 posts or more. The end result = the same as it ever was.
ELK, Wow, that is the exact feeling I get & I always say something if I see the vermin.
I must have hit a nerve here with the three buck per person possibility. DNR wants the revenue and you guys wants the bucks. You and I both know that this would help the herd and solve the to many hunters in the woods problem. Or are we all just to greedy. Hmmm.
Jappy- no they are being b____h slapped back to xgun nation. Are you taking a break from shooting your ravin at 100yds?
LOL I will leave you alone. Poor thing can't stand the truth.
According to another thread on Bowsite it is now ok to post pictures of animals killed with a crossbow. I am not convinced crossbow shooters are not welcome on this forum.
Jake, yep Im able bodied that's why i use a recurve and a compound. I go back and forth and enjoy both. I've not tried a longbow yet, possibly will some day.
The one thing the crossbow guys can't argue, but they will. Crossbow innovation is in its infancy. Who knows what the things will be capable of in 5 years, hell in 2. Compound bow advancements are pretty much plateaued. The crossbow lovers won't be anymore willing to compromise in the future than they are now.
Honest question to you crossbow guys. Where do you draw the line? What will make it too easy for you?
RutnStrut; Sorry but I have to give my opinion on this. Yes, Yes and YES crossbows are getting to fast for anyone's own good. States should set a limit on speed to hunt is the archery season. I say that the state should set it because bowhunters will not. Unfortunately speed sells. I think one of the biggest advancements in hunting is the range finder. Go out west hunting and see what you get without one. Garmin's new sight. point at the target it judges the distance and moves the dot to the correct yardage and shoot. WAY to much technology in all of archery. Scares the bee crap out of me. By the way I stay around 350fps. And the reason that guys want crossbows faster and faster is to sooner or later having to use only one pin. That's right lazy. Pay the big bucks and less practice. My hope is that the bows hit a certain speed and they become to erratic to hold it and hit something. It is a gun hunters mentality where results are everything and the chase not so much. When this is all it become I hope that I am pushing daisy's.
Those sights would not be legal in many Western States. I'm guessing you haven't been to many? Wisconsin will never go to 3 Bucks. Better chance at 1 Buck which wouldn't bother me as I do not gun hunt.
Albino, I have not gone out west for over 25 years back in my compound days. Remember when the rangefinders were target the object and turn the dial till it is one for your distance? You were better off judging the distance which is no small feat with the bows then about 220fps. As far as three buck I meant one with vertical one with crossbow and one with gun which it is now. A one buck setup would make people choice any weapon they want but only harvest one with that weapon and your done. I have hunted in Utah, Colorado Wyoming South Dakota, New Mexico, and Iowa. That is why I say the new laser rangefinders are a BIG advantage.
Jake, it's not 3 bucks now unless you are group bagging during gun season. Then technically there is no limit if you have tags. Anyway, you don't get a seperate crossbow/bow tag. If you kill a buck with a crossbow, you can't kill one with a vertical bow and vice versa. I definitely agree with you on the speed limit on crossbows. But most crossbow hunters will not.
Yes, I remember that brick of a range finder. It took 2 hands & you had to look at the dial after you ranged with it. The laser rangefinders are a big advantage but would not be legal out west if it is attached to your bow like a lighted sight. Good law. Still not sure on your 3 Buck. You can only shoot 2. One with a bow or crossbow & one with a gun.
Rut; Oh, I thought that it was three. Good that is much better for the sport. Since I stopped vertical which I was at 220fps. I think the verticals now shoot in the high 300's right? The crossbows are getting waaaay to fast and it is all for laziness. The crossbow does need a certain speed to compensate for the short arrow to bring up the KE but approaching 500fps is ridiculous. A crossbow can kill with a 300fps any north American animal. It is sad to see it spin out of control like it is. If it were my decision 400fps limit and the rest can go bench shoot with the speed bows. They can also shove Ravin where the sun don't shine to. I hope that they shave enough fingers off and create enough lawsuits to put them out of business for good. They have done nothing for the sport.
Albino, yes it was a brick LOL I had a friend that shot vertical and he went twice out west and shot an animal both years. He ran me a dig and said wow you went out several years and came home with nothing. I said that is because I was ranging my shots by eye. Leave your laser rangefinder at home and see what you come home with. He gave a half grin and walked away. Hey he used the laser rangefinder and it said 67 yards and he slide his dial type sight to 67 and hit that antelope good. Never could have guess that yardage or should I say I could never have guessed that yardage. Different times. Technology is slowly killing us all. Nobody cares about the stalk anymore. Away want results and fast.
Bigfeet, baiting sure whatever. Been good talking with everyone and good hunting to you.
Even most speed bows only IBO around 350 there are a few at 360 or so. But realistically with a hunting set up most aren't shooting much over 300. I know a few guys that their hunting rigs shoot 315+. But they have long draw lengths and shoot light arrows. Now crossbows on the other hand, have no DL/DW handicaps. A crossbow will shoot pretty close to it's rating depending on bolt weight and tune.
Rut on crossbows the advertised speed is usually done with a 370gr. or in other words an arrow that is not meant for hunting. By the time you get to 425gr and heavier the speed drops dramatically.
I did have a bright spot this weekend. A friend of mine bought his son a x-gun last fall because his son needed a new bow and he figured he would like the x-gun better. His son is 15 and said he is not hunting with that thing, he wants to bow hunt and use a bow. Love it when I see the kids still wanting to BowHunt during the Bow Season.
Great livetohunt. I hope he enjoys his stick bow.
Two years ago I traded a hunt with a friend in FL. He took me to shoot an alligator and in return, he was to come for a white tail bow hunt. Imagine his surprise when he told me he had heard that WI now allowed crossbows and that he was going to bring his. I told him WI may allow it but I do not. He ended up killing a low 140" deer with his vertical bow.
I dropped the compound years ago and never looked back. The "ease" in which it became, started to bring a boredom of sorts for me personally. No bragging intended in that statement at all. I went with a recurve after that with cedar arrows and it brought a whole new rejuvenation to my passion of bow hunting. I wince when people say " tip of the hat to you trad guys". Unless legitimate disabilities keep you from it, most guys could do it if they truly wanted to.
I will never embrace the use of that xgun in the bow season unless of age to do so or legitimate disabled.
Drop Tine you never answered my question: look me in the eyes as a bow hunter and tell me that weapon in that picture above should be allowed in the bow season.
Rutnstrut said; "he one thing the crossbow guys can't argue, but they will. Crossbow innovation is in its infancy. Who knows what the things will be capable of in 5 years, hell in 2. Compound bow advancements are pretty much plateaued. The crossbow lovers won't be anymore willing to compromise in the future than they are now. Honest question to you crossbow guys. Where do you draw the line? What will make it too easy for you?"
The fastest crossbow ten years ago was 425 fps. The number of crossbows in the woods that shoot that fast now is probably less than 5% of the total number. Crossbow design took a big leap at that time and it does continue to evolve. Vertical bows saw the speed game some time ago and performance has pretty much plateaued. With crossbows, the speed game is still happening but not by leaps and bounds. Engineers are figuring out you can only get so much performance out of limbs and pulleys in a package that is safe, reliable, and ergonomically appropriate for hunting. There will be a plateau with crossbows just has there has been with vertical equipment. Now if designers want to start messing with springs, pistons, compressed air etc..... speed could be increased some more, but most crossbow enthusiasts draw the line there as these designs do not draw their energy from within drawn limbs. The "airbow" is a good example. Most crossbow enthusiasts consider that weapon a air rifle that shoots arrows, not a bow, that should be placed in seasons where air rifles are legal. The ATA also agrees with that position.
It seems much of the back and forth is about what is a bow as just about all statistics from various states show there are no resource concerns as a result of crossbow inclusion into archery. The general definition of a bow is a device that propels arrows from energy stored within drawn limbs. Some states have come up with their own specific definitions, some of which define crossbows as bows. There are states that define crossbows as crossbows, not bows. Some private clubs, such as Pope and Young, have come up with their own definition that excludes crossbows from their definition of a bow. Some organizations consider them bows, and others don't.
Die hard anti crossbow folks only believe the definitions that exclude them. Many crossbow enthusiasts believe the definitions that include them. Some on both sides formulate their own opinions on whether crossbows are bows or not bows. Many hunters could care less either way.
I consider them bows. Obviously, many here do not. That is okay. We are all free to oppose or support various issues but I could never understand the venom and vitriol that spews forth on this issue instead of good civil discussion.
So, the draw locks should be legal for the compound shooters. They do not allow them? Unless they changed that and I am not aware of it.
I have stayed out of this debate for several years. I do remember the product called "the 3/4 draw" that made its way onto the scene in the '90's. At the time it was determined to not be acceptable as it "provided the hunter with an unfair advantage." I always wonder why the crossbow was not viewed the same as it removed the element of the draw from the equation.
My thoughts overall - I do believe in use during the regular season for reasons of age or disability - I also believe a separate season dates for the rest is needed while also allowing it to be used during the gun seasons. You can always use a more primitive weapon in season structure.
I have hunted several states over the past years. Most have gone to a one buck tag that is not weapon dependent, but they still hunt specific dates based on weapon of choice. It is the hunters choice how he/she fills their buck tag. You buy a regular hunting license and then your deer tags separately. I believe the state will eventually go this route.
Live2hunt said "So, the draw locks should be legal for the compound shooters. They do not allow them? Unless they changed that and I am not aware of it."
It is my opinion that they should be legal in archery seasons for those that want to use them.
And, all the x-gun shooters should save there money and just buy the airbow? I still can't believe that did not have the support from the x-gun community? Was that over the top for them?
dimples.....The Wisconsin DNR is also one of the groups that do not recognize the xbow as archery equipment. Those venom breathing victrolas as you called them. But hey as long as you say they are archery equipment it must be so. The Messiah has spoken. He knows all. I think I saw you on Johnny Carson a few years back. After he retired you joined a freak show as a geek that bit the heads off of chickens. Now you are back. This is the wrong place for your big comeback. You know very little & must have low T. Do you drive a Hummer? When we get up to 500 post you are all invited to my house for a cook out. Bring your xbows so we have some kindling. Every time one Troll leaves another joins in. HMMMMMM.
Albino said; "dimples.....The Wisconsin DNR is also one of the groups that do not recognize the xbow as archery equipment. Those venom breathing victrolas as you called them. But hey as long as you say they are archery equipment it must be so."
Actually, I have not seen the Wisconsin DNR spew any venom at all on this issue. They have been very professional throughout this process. I disagree with their position that crossbows should have a separate season, but that doesn't make me hate or despise them, unlike some of you that hate and despise those you disagree with.
Okay, I have taken a Valium and decided the dpsm demeanor is the best way to handle things.
I am happy to say that IMO anyone thinking that stringed rifle belongs in the bow season is full of poopoo covered with rose petals.
It's all good though... no biggie I love you all.
"Rut on crossbows the advertised speed is usually done with a 370gr. or in other words an arrow that is not meant for hunting. By the time you get to 425gr and heavier the speed drops dramatically."
Jake, All speed tests with crossbows I have seen were done with a 400 grain arrow as the lightest or starting weight. They seem very efficient with heavier weights and you can really get some impressive momentum numbers with them.
My two cents. Believe me when recurve bowhunters saw the compounds coming into the woods they were not at all happy with it either. The difference is that they were a more mature bunch and not like the greedy people that think they own the rut now. Just think what the harvest report would have looked like if they took it back then for traditional and compounds. Oh I forgot, you only think of yourselves.
"My two cents. Believe me when recurve bowhunters saw the compounds coming into the woods they were not at all happy with it either. The difference is that they were a more mature bunch and not like the greedy people that think they own the rut now." Sorry Jake but you are not seeing the big picture. The difference is that a trial period was set for crossbows so their impact could be observed. Now, with three years of results, the numbers clearly show the crossbow to be a more efficient, lethal weapon. And this simply because a few forward thinking individuals had deep enough thought to get such a provision in place.
Cap, if they would have taken the same study when compounds came on the scene versus recurve or stickbows the results would have overwhelmingly showed the same results. That the compound is a more efficient and lethal weapon. And if this study would have been done YOU would not have been describing them as forward thinking individuals. Your compound bias is showing big time. Compounds compared to stick bows and crossbows are a small blimp in time.
"Cap, if they would have taken the same study..." Jake, "if's" do not matter. The current issue regards setting a crossbow season is what matters. Of course "if" I won the lottery...
Cap it is not a matter of "if's" That is what happened. Compounds took over the traditionals bowyers rut season by storm and your in denial. Traditional and crossbows were used in the crusades. Compounds have been around for what 25 years. You refuse to give traditional bowyers there dues yet take complete credit for owning the rut. crossbower are yesterdays compounds. BUT because you are more organizied and arrogant in your thinking it is this way. Keep thinking short term and worry about your rut and never mind how compounds came on the scene. You are very fortunate that traditional bowyers were so open to new idea's and not so greedy. I suppose you think Pope and Young carried compounds around.
"Compounds have been around for what 25 years"
Closer to 50 years, but you were close.
Jake, your comprehension level gives you away as a greedy crossbow user. One again, the only reason you are here is because of the recent talk about crossbows and a potential change from the temporary season they were given. Attempting to relive the past does nothing for your argument nor does it have any bearing on the issue at hand. Statistics show that the archery season (longbow, recurve bow and compound bow) has remained static for quite some time. If you really have a need to relive the past, why not start a thread with Doc Brown and Marty McFly? Maybe strap a longbow on the top of the Delorean?
Rut; Yes, I started seeing them in the mid 1970's. Compared to stick bows and crossbows it is but a speck of time. You guys get so self absorbed that is probably the only thing you read.
Sure Cap, I am not referring to the longbow, recurve and compound bow statistics. I am talking about the recurve, longbow statistics before compounds came to be and how much harvest data went up after they arrived.
Jake; No, your math is a little fuzzy much like your knowledge. Keep up the good fight though soldier you will only be here but a speck of time.
Pasquinell; Hell yes, I'm way on the downside of life. LOL It amazes me how hypocritical you guys can be. Sir, you don't know your bow history or you don't want to know it. Poor baby.
I am going to go hunting & will try not to look at this thread. Can you guys handle it or is Jake smarter than you? Try to push it up to 500 posts because I would really like to throw some trash on the fire. Pas, save me a chill pill. I am going to use my compound because one of the wheels fell off my recurve. I am only going to take one snowshoe as I don't want to make it to easy. It would be nice to have a Ravin because on the edge of the field I could take a Tom at 100 yards. That is twice as far as a shotgun & 85 yards farther than I shoot with my compound. The hard part is walking that extra 85 yards just to pick the dang bird up. I believe they make a window mount for the xbow so maybe I could just sit in the truck & keep warm & listen to oldies on the radio. TaTa Carry on. I'm off to hunt.
"I'm way on the downside of life." - obviously with your use and weapon of choice. LOL it amazes me how hysterical you guys can be.
You're right sir, history of the bow doesn't tickle my fancy but seeing you dance the x gun shuffle like you are, certainly does.
"Can you guys handle it or is Jake smarter than you?" No evidence of that yet.
Jake, you have aroused my curiosity. Will you cite the longbow and recurve bow statistics before compounds came out for us? And will you please give us the harvest data? Also, since you will be presenting numbers and factual data please give us your source for the information.
Casekiska your baiting. I just observe it through life. I started with recurve and when compounds were introduced I bought one. These were more basic than today's bows. Finger release and basic sights. But never the less a vast improvement over recurves. The recurve hunters then were rare to find. Hunting was hard but gratifying never the less. We really did not worry about harvest amounts seeing that we very rarely took anything. When compounds came to be an explosion of hunters hit the woods. Not right away but over six to eight years people started to take notice of more deer being harvested. It surely improved my success. You would have to google or check with the DNR on numbers harvested, but if they would have done a separate season as to compare as they have done now with compounds versus crossbows it would have been a helluva gap in favor of compounds. Common sense and observing would tell you that. I think that it was a shrewd move on the compounds shooters part to do that but it rubs me that they cannot see how they got their start. Compounds totally steamrolled recurve shooters. Archery shops started popping up and there was a lot of money to be made and yes greed took over. It is the same today as what went on earlier but with different players. What me is the total disregard and arrogance that compound shooter process. We all have a right to hunt the archery season as compounders did so show some sort of humility like your brethren recurve shooters did and let progress be what it is. So selfish you all are.. Now I have no dog in this fight. I was force to crossbow in 2005 because of RA and connective tissue disease and am 67 and live off of drugs but I just do not like what I see. Believe me your not all that special. Funny but Pope and Young and Fred Bear would most laugh at all this fuss.
Jake, compounds came on the scene more than 25 years ago, I was there. 25 years ago was about 1993.
"Common sense and observing would tell you that." Firstly, Jake is a troll who crawled over here from some xbow site. More importantly, he is a hypocrite. When called out to present facts, he replies with using "common sense and observing." Funny that he ignores hard data, collected over a three year period when it is not in his favor, otherwise his "common sense and observing" are his fall-back. Troll exposed.
"Jake, you have aroused my curiosity. Will you cite the longbow and recurve bow statistics before compounds came out for us? And will you please give us the harvest data? Also, since you will be presenting numbers and factual data please give us your source for the information."
In Michigan in 1965 (pre-compound) the bow hunting success rate was 6.1%.
https://www.ourmidland.com/sports/highschool/article/Compared-to-50-years-ago-present-Michigan-deer-6902551.php
In 2007 (post compound - pre crossbow inclusion) the bow hunting success rate was 23.2%
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/3485_236922_7.pdf
KPC
Yes, my mistake it was around the mid 70's. It is just that stick bows and crossbows have been around way way longer. It just seemed to me offhand to be far less. No offence meant.
Cap, see that is what bugs me. You said hard data over three years, seriously. You and I knew when the question was asked that this is the first time two bow harvest numbers were ever compared. That is why I called baiting. I am talking about the real bowhunters. The ones that started the deer hunting trend here. You want to make it as if they did not exist. Why, because of your arrogance and now selfishness. I will say it again that you should thank your lucky stars that stick bow shooters accepted compounds unlike your crowd.
K Cummings thanks for looking that up. I am surprised that the 6,1% is that high. I wonder how many hunters were in the woods accounting for that success rate?
Although I am biased towards traditional as the all in way to bow hunt, I think mechanical releases combined with sighted compounds allowed shooting deer with an arrow to be easier. Now why are you arguing about this?
In Wisconsin, 1970 (pre-compound) bow hunting success rate was 6.4%.
In Wisconsin, 2013 (post-compound, pre-crossbow) bow hunting success rate was 32%.
(source: Wisconsin Department of Natural Recourses)
KPC
Earth to Jake. You continue to live in the past with your meaningless issue. I am focused on getting a crossbow season set. Troll on.
Well you can call it whatever you like. I understand why you avoid it. The way things fell into place or evolved is interesting to me. And some others here see it to. Try to be more open to now you came to be in the archery season and it may rub off on you. Or, can you not face that?
Glunker, they do not want to hear that. It all boils down to being selfish. Something evolved in the sport (compounds) to make success easier and now it is happening to them and they can't handle it. Selfish for sure.
"K Cummings thanks for looking that up. I am surprised that the 6,1% is that high. I wonder how many hunters were in the woods accounting for that success rate?
In 1965, 46,000 Michigan bow hunters took 2,800 deer. (6.1%)
In 1970, 101,573 Wisconsin bow hunters took 6,520 deer. (6.4%)
In 2013, 266,380 Wisconsin bow hunters took 87,628 deer. (32.8%)
KPC
Thanks much K Cumming. The explosion of hunters is amazing. I see why they only want to concentrate on the here and now.
I do not think the issue is one of too many deer harvested, or even too many hunters. The CWD reservoirs will be thinned by biologists one way or another,.... and overall hunting participation is declining and will continue to decline given today's society and values.
Missouribreaks I hope that you right. Today's kids are more into techy stuff much less something that takes amount of time to do. It will be interesting to watch all this play out. I have my memories sorry compounders you can not take that away from me.
In 1972 a quarter pounder cost $.55.
Missouri with all due respect, you quoted 1993 as the compound coming into age, they have been around a lot longer than that, coming into the scene, in the late 70;s and taking off in the 80's, so I would say they have been around 50 years.......
As far as the cross bow, the argument now is over, Wisconsin will have cross bows during the archery season, it is the season that they set, that is now the discussion.
What they are looking at now, is what dates will they set, for the cross bow season. The argument of having them or not is over with,,,,,,,,
It also is a public land issue,,,,, private land hunters are going to do what they want, and that is a fact for alot of them......................
Again the issue now, is what the dates of the season will be,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ground hunter you totally misread my post. I did not state compounds came in 1993. Please reread that post.
CaptMIke said; "The difference is that a trial period was set for crossbows so their impact could be observed. Now, with three years of results, the numbers clearly show the crossbow to be a more efficient, lethal weapon. And this simply because a few forward thinking individuals had deep enough thought to get such a provision in place."
Crossbow folks could have told you that crossbows are more effective before this trail period began. We have no reason to hide that fact. They are slightly more effective just as compounds are more effective than traditional equipment. Decades of data from other states has shown no negative impacts to the resource from crossbow inclusion. It appears the data from Wisconsin is the same. The archery harvest is actually less now than prior to crossbow inclusion. All that has changed is that more folks using crossbows in archery season and that is something some of you are having a difficult time adjusting to. If the resource has not been impacted, there is no biological reason to adjust the season.
A little historical perspective on the compound bow in an article written by M.R. James:
"Allen excitedly filed for a patent on his invention on June 23, 1966. It would be granted three years later. Meanwhile, what is surely the most widely hailed and hated device in archery history, rattled our sport like the Great San Francisco Earthquake of 1906."
I shot my first deer with a recurve in 1976 and at that time the popularity of the compound was just starting to ramp up in my area. It wasn't until about 1979 that I got my first compound (Darton Trailmaster) but I can assure you that the friction and downright hatred was just as strong, if not stronger between factions then as it is now.
If I understand what Jake and others are trying to say, in my opinion they are right in the sense that many of the compound shooters that are dead against the inclusion of the crossbow, are actually hunting with a weapon that was seen exactly the same way, and hated just as much when many of us started. This animosity isn't new.
Time marches on...
KPC
Dpms, your making way to much sense for these got to have my rut, it is my deer season guys. They are hypocrites and their selfish ways prevent them from listening to logic.
" they are slightly more effective..." Now that there is funny! A machine gun is slightly more effective too! Keep trying to convince yourselves.
Pasquined you are one bitter little man. You should enjoy life more and be more considerate of others.
DPMS, you have unique way of interpreting data. Luckily for all hunters of the state, the powers that be do not see through the same convoluted eyes. Pasq, go your garden and talk to a rock, the conversation will be much better than with Jake the troll.
CaptMike, you called me Jake the troll, jake the troll jake the troll. Oh your argument are so intelligent and insightfull. LOL Can't you do better than that. LOL. So the hamburger was .55 way back when. Inspiring revelation there. Precise data indeed. LOL Must be very lonely up in the head of yours. LOL
Pasquinell said; "" they are slightly more effective..." Now that there is funny! A machine gun is slightly more effective too! Keep trying to convince yourselves"
There is no need to have to convince myself of anything. There is decades of data from inclusion states that shows what the advantage is in hunting situations. Even in Wisconsin. Your own data shows that it actually your assertion that is funny. I prefer to talk in facts, not assumptions, stereotypes, and innuendo.
CaptMike said; "DPMS, you have unique way of interpreting data. Luckily for all hunters of the state, the powers that be do not see through the same convoluted eyes."
Interpreting data? The data is what the data is. In Wisconsin, there are a significant number of hunters using crossbows and the harvest is now actually less than prior to inclusion. The resource has not been negatively affected and many hunters have embraced the crossbow as a legitimate hunting tool. Yes, even some of your brethren.
Jake LOL you LOL called LOL me LOL a LOL name LOL. It's LOL Pasquinell LOL not Pasquined. LOL My LOL feelings LOL are LOL hurt. LOL. Please LOL be LOL more LOL considerate. LOL
Capain please check your inventory on group hugs. I'm out. Looks like our newly aquired xgun buddies need some.
LOL I thought that you would like that Penquin. LOL
Pasq, knowing the trolls would be out in force, I tripled my regular order of hugs that I normally keep in stock for the "happy" resident snowflakes.
You guys started the back and forth. You must be resident trolls. It is hard to stoop down to your level I do admit. But if you have nothing else, have at it. LOL
Bowhunting and hunting are declining and will not be reversed by propping up a toddler in diapers next to a crossbow or gun held in a vice inside a box blind. Simple as that!
Missouribreaks said; "Bowhunting and hunting are declining and will not be reversed by propping up a toddler in diapers next to a crossbow or gun held in a vice inside a box blind. Simple as that!"
This is true. This country is bleeding hunters. As we keep losing hunters, opportunities will continue to increase. Crossbow inclusion is just one of those opportunities that game agencies are looking at. In urban areas, where deer numbers are difficult to control, crossbow inclusion helps to get more archery hunters into areas that are difficult to hunt with firearms where a higher harvest is needed. In Pennsylvania, that was the impetus that drove crossbow use in this state. First allowed around our big cities, then expanded statewide.
30-40 years ago, we had plenty of hunters in this country. That is not the case today.
"...crossbow inclusion helps to get more archery hunters into areas that are difficult to hunt with firearms where a higher harvest is needed." Really? How does crossbow inclusion get a person get into archery? It might make them crossbow hunters but they are still not archers in any sense of the word.
That is your opinion. In much of the country it is considered archery hunting. Many in your own state also consider it archery hunting as do many of your neighbors in Michigan.
Really, this looks like archery? Just because people keep telling themselves that, doesn’t make it true.
Yep. Once you get past the ridiculous advertising, it still shoots arrows, kills by hemorrhage, has a ton of drop at the advertised range, is driven by energy stored in drawn limbs, and the deer can move before the arrow gets there, among other things.
"In Wisconsin, 2013 (post-compound, pre-crossbow) bow hunting success rate was 32%."
Whatever you do don't factor in other important variables. You know like better gear,treestands,bait,much more knowledgeable hunters...
Rut that would automatically get figured into any stats so what is your point?
What dpms meant to say:
Yep. Once you get past the spot on advertising, it still shoots bolts, kills by hemorrhage, has a ton of drop at the advertised range but compensated by using a firearm scope, is driven by alot more energy stored in always cocked drawn limbs, can shoot while laying on a rail or table and the deer can move before the bolt gets there among other things.
"Rut that would automatically get figured into any stats so what is your point?" OMG, stupid is alive and breathing?
No Jake, KPC was comparing trad gear of yesteryear to compounds from their invention on up to 2013. You can't count just the weapons in those early years as gear was primitive as well.
NO Cap, you still hold the prize for that. LOL Still your boyish charm. You will never grow up.
Whew! A lot to get through there. I still say 1 buck per year, per hunter.
Rut, but you could count it on a year to year basis and the gear would as far as anything not attached to the bow such as stands, blinds camo and such go up the same. Anything attached to the bow would be part of the bow up to the guy holding it. Way to hard to figure in because nobody does it the same.
Keep er going fellas, almost to 500.
So what occurs at the 500 mark?
LOL! Maybe they all head back to their homes in MI and PA?
Although I do not like crossbows, why do some of you tell crossbow hunters to go away? It has already been established on a Bowsite thread that crossbow kills and pictures are ok.
OK fine they can stay as long as they don't post or make their presence known;)
In 2013 there was a multitude of antlerless tags available, so i dont think those stats are comparing apples to apples. Also in those early years there weren't near as many deer on the landscape. Poor stats to quote to support an argument
Poor? The graph shows a rate of kill. Omg!
"Also in those early years there weren't near as many deer on the landscape."
Bingo, we have a winner.
This is precisely why game departments keep expanding seasons, methods, and weapons. Like it or not, in spite of all the advancements in equipment and technology, we still need to kill more deer in order to keep the herd healthy and keep them within the carrying capacity of the habitat.
The fact that hunter numbers continue to decline exacerbates the problem even more.
KPC
Captmike, I wasn't referring to your graph I was referring to the 1965, 1970, 2013 success rates shown several posts above yours. Of course the success rates are much higher with multiple tags of late compared to 1 tag all season and deer being less plentiful.
My feeling is that each weapon, any weapon, should stand on it's own two feet. As it stands now, the crossbow season is linked to the vertical bow archery season. Continuation of that link is not what was originally agreed to when the crossbow season was established. I believe it was to be disconnected from the regular archery season after 2 years of data and evaluated on it's own. So the DNR should do so and go ahead and evaluate it. It's been 5 years, why has this not been done? As far as any shortened seasons, I think everyone is getting the cart a bit in front of the horse. The disconnect has to happen first, then management decisions like shortened seasons can be made, if necessary. The DNR, the legislature, and the NRB need to live up to their promises made during enactment. They have now, what, 5 years of data. Get it done. JMHO
"The disconnect has to happen first,..." In a sense yes, but in fact, there is no connect. They are two completely separate seasons. The crossbow season was designed to mirror the archery season mostly due to legislator ignorance. This was to be for a trial period of time, after which it could be evaluated. And I agree, it is time to get it done!
bewcrewmike, I agree one buck per hunter per year is a way to go.
bewcrewmike, I also agree to one buck per hunter per year. You can bet that will fall on deaf ears. Compounds were invented to make bowhunting easier and choosing between gun and bow to get a buck would be a hard choice. But then again the ones that stay with bows would have lots of room in THEIR WOODS.
There is no reason for one buck per year in WI. We are seeing an alarming success rate w/ the cross bow and need to adjust the season.
WausauDug I beg to differ. This would bring things back to balance. Crossbow licienses would decline I am betting by a third. Verticals would also lose members. The gun season would remain the main source for herd control.
Of the tags registered as filled,.....How many hunting days does it take a crossbow hunter to fill a tag, vs compound, vs stickbow? Anyone see a study?
There are of course other variables affecting number of days hunting, just looking for the simple answer.
Have crossbows caused " point creep " in the Wisconsin or Michigan bear drawings?
Here is something, to think about, for those who believe in a one buck rule,,,,, I listened to a CWD scientist who was from another state, and lectures on the subject, and believes that in heavy CWD zones, multiple bucks should be taken, not less,,,,,,,
also when you speak of one buck, your talking political science, not wildlife science,,,, I believe we should do what is best for the herd we manage, not because of a weapon dispute
that is a good question Missouri, I do not know, but since you could always use one for bear hunts anyway, I do not think so,,,,, cheap application fees, not having to hold a hunting license to apply, and transfer ability is what clogged up that system
Ground hunter if that is the case then their should not be any problem with crossbow success. I tell you it is the same as when compounds came out the success rate went way up. Same story as before. Compounds shooters cry crossbow hunters have to much success and the wildlife science behind it says shoot more bucks. Now which is it?
With bear, now that many bowhunters (maybe as high as 50% depending on the state) have quit bowhunting to become scoped crossbow hunters it has to be much easier to kill a bear over bait. I have done a lot of it, it is far easier to sit 45 yards from the bait and kill a bear with a scoped crossbow at last light, than it is to sit 20 yards from the bait and hope the bear still gets in. The harvest is set more by number killed, not hunter numbers. This is true with most draws which is why many here in the west do not want crossbows for elk. Anything which increases the harvest over objectives, will result in fewer tags being offered and therefore less opportunity.
Ground Hunter, we already have special tags/permits in CWD areas. In CWD areas offer additional buck tags if you wish. When I say CWD areas, I'm not talking about areas where a game farm was found to have CWD on it. Yes, I understand that this disease could be passed to the outside herd but let that be found to be true before a blanket CWD label due to game farms.
brew I did not know that,,,, I knew that there was EAB at one time,,,, in Vernon County I only get 2 buck tags one for bow, and one for gun,,,,, if I am missing something, let me know......................
jake you would have to explain to me, why we need a one buck rule,,,, that is something I do not understand?
ground hunter what I mean by the one buck rule it would put people back to their first choice in hunting weapon and decrease crossbow numbers. Yes, it is more of a political way and not a herd management way but none the less a way. The numbers show that the long bow and compound bow numbers decreased and no you can not see it on the gun hunters numbers believe there are a lot of gun hunters that went out for crossbow hunting. What I am getting at is it would take pressure off of the compound shooter since they as I mentioned early can dish it out but can not take it.
Ground hunter if you look at this strictly as a herd management tool I see no reason to change anything. You know that one or the other would have been higher. It strikes me as humorous though that from compound shooters own ranks the crossbow hunters licenses increased. It is amazing how it mirrors the compound revolution. And according to the last year on the above chart in comes to 13 deer per county over compound shooters. WOW!
Crossbow hunters are largely former bowhunters (compound users). Additionally, many bowhunters, and former bowhunters, start their children out with crossbows. Common sense and personal observations will reveal that most crossbow hunters are not from the gun hunter ranks, although some are. Stop trying to kid yourselves, it is the bowhunters and former bowhunters who support crossbows, including many right here on this forum.
I agree Jake, by making us "pick a weapon" one buck rule could be a big start in right direction.
How many of those “crossbow kills” were deer shot by virtical bows and registered as crossbow kills to get to this point where we are today?
Shortening the crossbow season will be bucking all the politics and money that got the season in the 1st place and will just pit hunter vs hunter (never a good outcome). One buck rule will likely keep a good share of crossbow users in the gun season. But I see a lot of opposition to this as a lot of primary gun hunters have invested a lot of $ in a crossbow s already. I just hope we don't all lose by a shortened season for everyone with less hunting in rut time.
Missouribreaks this is the very same thing that happened when compounds entered the stick shooters world. In fact it was a much bigger advantage over stick bows shown as they do now with stats. Like it or not this is just the progression of the sport. Nobody is making anybody hunt with any weapon they do not want to hunt with. But, some are trying to keep hunters away from the rut.
One buck rule always made sense to me. To control populations, kill does! Common sense!
Ground hunter, the term special tags might not have been the best word choice. I recall and maybe it has since been changed but it was an extra antlerless tag for Southern Farmland. If you wanted more bucks taken from this area, add an option to purchase one additional buck tag for $24 like they do in the other areas of the state. More $, seems like a win, win! This would of course have to be approved by the county boards.
CaptMike,
You posted the graph. I assume both traditional bows and compound are lumped together as "archery". If compounds were separated out, I suspect the graph would take on a different look entirely.
"They are both archery."
I agree. Would be interesting to see a breakdown among all three on the same graph. While a crossbow is certainly "superior" to traditional equipment in most every way, the gap narrows significantly when comparing compound the crossbow. The graph that Capt posted doesn't tell the tale about how "superior" the crossbow really is. In Wisconsin anyway. In other states the difference is 3-5%.
Some have made it a big issue that the crossbow sees higher success than rifle. "Archery" hunters are knocking on that door as well, pretty much right there. If compounds were looked at separately, they also would undoubtedly be seeing much higher success than rifle as well.
Of course this may be off topic, but in MI I get a buck tag, but it is not weapon specific, so I like that, I can save it for any season,,,,,,,,, I wish in Wis they would give me 2 buck tags, and let me fill them with either my bow or sidelock, or both,,,,,,,
However I think Wis wants to keep gun hunting stronger, so that would not happen,,,,
I may be selfish, but I do not want us to go to a one buck rule,,,,,,
Why go to a one buck rule? The group baggers will continue to shoot as many bucks as they want during gun season.
You guys want to keep giving things up. Crap we gave up the ability to shoot a buck or doe with the bow license. We’ll never get that back.
Now your talking about going to 1 buck. For what? Crossbow hunters killed 27 more bucks per county than bow hunters and you guys are going nuts.
It’s hilarious and scary at the same time.
FWIW.....in Michigan I believe the percentage of hunters that take 2 bucks is real low....I think it was in the 5%-8% range. The DNR has said in the past that is not a significant impact on the herd. Unless the science says you have a problem and need to go to a 1 buck rule to help the herd....I wouldn't give it up anything just yet. Also....I like the Michigan option of doe or buck with a bow.
One buck works for me. The gun hunters will shoot the bulk of the deer which is the way it has been. The archery season will let everybody shoot their buck if so desired and you can buy doe tags. The crossbow and vertical bowhunter numbers will go down so more room for everyone. Like I said works for me. At least YOU get to choose your weapon for deer hunting with no restrictions.
What about Buck only areas? Not everyone hunts the southern farmland.
Drop Tine if it would help bring back the herd and I mean temporarily then yes.
++we gave up the ability to shoot a buck or doe with the bow license.++ Sounds more like the managers have better heard/population control that way. Not about bowhunters getting pimped. The entire authority tag structure has changed vastly since the days of 'good for one bear or deer'
More about that, would you really want to shoot doe when the herd was hurting?
Where south of Hwy. 8 is the herd hurting? I could move the comment to Hwy. 2 but will leave it to Hwy. 8
I haven’t punched a tag in WI. In four years. So I think if I want to take a Doe I’m entitled to do so. Especially on my own land.
Without the CDAC and public’s critiques you would see 1000’s more doe tags available.
Doorknob not sure who that your asking but no I would not shoot a doe instead of a buck or no doe if that is the case. It would never work voluntarily that is for sure.
"FWIW.....in Michigan I believe the percentage of hunters that take 2 bucks is real low....I think it was in the 5%-8% range.
It was 4.3% in 2016.
KPC
"The graph that Capt posted doesn't tell the tale about how "superior" the crossbow really is." It doesn't? The little squiggly lines on the graph represent success rates for the different weapons. The higher up a squiggly line is, the higher the success rate. Hope this helps.
1 archery buck and 1 gun buck. but now your telling me since the crossbow has been pushed on us for 3 yrs we need to scrap our system that has been worked pretty well for 55 yrs? Big picture we are the envy of probably every state for our deer hunting opportunities, meaning great deer and available hunting land. The crossbow season needs to be changed and duhh, this is why able bodied hunters shouldn't be using them in the first place.
CaptMike said; " It doesn't? The little squiggly lines on the graph represent success rates for the different weapons. The higher up a squiggly line is, the higher the success rate. Hope this helps."
I am happy to see your graph reading skills are in line with mine. My question was where would the compound squiggly line fall on the above graph if separated out from traditional gear. I suspect it would be significantly above rifle success as well. Some of you keep making an issue about crossbow success being higher than rifle.
The issue pertains to setting a crossbow season. That was the sole motivator for this thread being started. I know why you lazy crossbow supporters keep attempting to change the subject. It is because of the greed for your unfettered use of a superior weapon in the archery season. Now, if you'd like the WDNR to start keeping record of what type of archery equipment is used to kill a deer during the archery season, you should suggest it as a future question for the Spring Hearings. Oops, I forgot, you are not a resident of this state.
CaptMIke said; "I know why you lazy crossbow supporters keep attempting to change the subject. "
Actually, I am responding to specific comments made by you and others. You and others have made an issue out of the crossbow success being higher than rifle. I haven't changed the subject at all. If you haven't noticed, I always quote what I am responding to so your claim of changing the subject simply doesn't hold water.
If your approach is to make a talking point out of the "superior" success which is "higher than rifle", you would think you would be prepared to be able to discuss it without hurling insults instead?
Is the success rate of the compound bow also "superior" to rifles in Wisconsin?
When you have a graph in front of you that clearly shows the higher success rate yet you choose to ignore it, what other "discussion" is there?
Some questions on that graph.
1. Are ML's included in the firearms category?
2. How long is the firearms season and how long is the archery and/or the crossbow season?
If as I suspect the archery/crossbow season is longer than the firearms season....I would then think the firearms percentage would be much higher if firearms season was the same length as archery/crossbow. My thinking is the archery guys have more days (opportunity) to hunt than firearms guys....consequently their percentages are going to be higher. You may get a more accurate picture of true success percentages if all season lengths were the same. It can be asked this way.....if firearms season and archery/cross bow season were each 20 days long, where would the higher success percentages be? It would have to viewed proportional as there are more firearms hunters than archery/crossbow hunters.
CaptMike said; "When you have a graph in front of you that clearly shows the higher success rate yet you choose to ignore it, what other "discussion" is there? "
I have always been clear that crossbows have a higher success rate than other bows? I have said many times stats in other states also back that up. I prefer to discuss issues using known data and facts. What I have also said is that the impact from crossbows has not been significant enough anywhere in the country to impact the resource in negative ways. If one looks at the issue objectively, using the good data that we have, there is no biological reason to adjust the season. I actually posted archery and crossbow harvest numbers that are no higher than they were before crossbow inclusion. You never responded other than to say they were difficult for you to read. It seems population and tags are driving harvest, not weapon types.
Again, since you and some others have continually kept trying to make a point that the crossbow is "superior" due to it having a higher success than rifles. Most objective minds will also conclude that compounds bows do as well since the success of "archery", which seems to include both traditional and compound bows, is already right there with rifles in Wisconsin.
Why in the hell are all of these non-residents sticking their noses where they are not wanted?
I know one thing. I'm done with this game with you guys. Not only have I got the board involved already, I will be creating multiple seperate handles/names to say why compound bow season and crossbow season should both not be able to hunt the rut. Forget the success rate garbage. Compound took 20,000 bucks and so did crossbow.
Book it. You greedy compound hunters want the woods to yourself during the rut, let's see if we can get you adjusted as well. You know, for the health of the heard right?
=) I will also be spreading this message to my countless crossbow hunting friends who hunt rifles as well. Same men I had turn out in droves for voting in spring.
Just a fair warning. Enjoy boys and girls. As the board member Mr Kazmerski stated, data does not lie. Especially when the kills are about the same for both bows. =) Poor poor rifle guys.
LOL! A troll with too much time on his hands. If he was a vertical archer he could spend his time practicing but that darn crossbow scope causes him too much eye strain.
Too much time on his hands? My 1st post and that's what I get when I look at you, and you have like 100's of posts all throughout the day?
That makes sense right? Lol.....
Anyways, I can't tell you how many people I have involved already to the DNR/friends/other local leaders to my massive county after watching the last meetings. It's ok you want to sit back and cry and mock on forums, but I have one goal. However, because of hunters with greed issues for deer just like you, it has split over time into two goals. One, keep the season as is, however if you are going to re-analyze data and the numbers are present to show both groups and taking 20,000+ deer shouldn't both groups be out of the woods during the rut for the greater good?
=) Makes a lot of sense eh? Maybe not to you, however that is the new message we will fight with.
Ron; Man did you shut them down. Cap is a real dandy.
I can see the validity of the argument that if success rate is to be considered important for limiting a certain type then we should examine the rates for all types.
"I can see the validity of the argument that if success rate is to be considered important for limiting a certain type then we should examine the rates for all types." Not sure why when there is only one weapon currently being reviewed by the NRB. But, I agree! Let's use all available data. Funny, now that I think of it, I do not remember any question pertaining to weapon choice when registering an archery killed deer. Wonder where that data will come from?
I am only on the 15 page of the 46 there are on the subject on camofire,,,,,, wow
Wow Ron, you reaLly said, NOTHING!!
Live2, that is not Ron, it is Jake talking to himself.
It is me Jake. Well there I go again talking to myself. LOL
Neh, don't know who Jake is. However, I know who the board is, and I know all my supporters who will be flying the same message to the board members frequently these next few weeks.
If Mr Kazmerski's main argument is protecting the deer for the deer gun hunters, and he finds it necessary to adjust the crossbow season because of how many deer they are killing, compound also needs to be suppressed then since they are both archery. Especially during the rut.
There is no hiding the fact that Mr Kazmerski is a member of the Wisconsin Bowhunter Associated who openly attacks crossbow use during the season. There is also no hiding the fact that if seasons are changed, all these men who bought crossbows from a business like his will also need a compound bow from his business. Sounds like conflict of interest when your selling both types of bows right?
=)
Like stated before. All you compound hunters and greed to hunt bucks at their dumbest moment to yourselves pre gun hunters is the reason this is all coming the surface. If we do lose part of our season, me and all my counter parts will try are darnest to make sure no one is out there with a lethal arrow during the rut hurting those poor poor gun hunters... who are already crossbow hunters.
=)
But its OK for any X-gun hunter who basically have a rifle in there hands. No having to draw, anchor, etc to make your shot. Oh Ya, they are the same thing totally, LOL, what a joke x-gunners are even making that statement. Anything to justify there downfalls on why they have a crutch.
I don't have a rifle in my hand, I have a crossbow, and I'm shooting from a stand 20 feet up during the rut when deer don't care. Is that hard with a draw and a scope with line dots on yardage? Get real.
You guys want to spout about how crossbows are hurting anything, the fact of the matter is no hunter should be in the woods during the rut if this state solely cares about gun hunters.
You can call it a rifle. If your talking about that bow up top, then make those type of bows illegal. I don't care.
Don't sit here and tell me it's hard to shoot a deer with a compound bow during the rut. I have had my bow up aimed at a deer while he moves for over 10 minutes. I couldn't get the deer away from me unless I started dancing and yelling during the rut.
So spare me.
Wrong guy here Ron, I'm a trad guy.
Ron, pick a person that has never shot a crossbow or a compound bow. Have them shoot 6 arrows with each weapon at 20 yards. Tell me what happens. It's the crossbow guys that are greedy and too lazy to learn to shoot a vertical bow. If they weren't, they wouldn't be so upset about their season being "set" shorter; Instead, they'd take the time to become proficient at shooting a vertical bow. Nobody is trying to take away anybody's opportunity to hunt, just adjusting the length of season you are able to hunt with a crossbow. Nobody is stopping anybody from hunting the rut, as long as you're not too lazy to hunt with archery equipment. Why are crossbows so attractive to someone looking to get into the archery season? Because they are easy to shoot, PERIOD, without even having to practice. In no way, shape or form, do they have any similarity to shooting a compound bow. I'm all for the old rules. If you're disabled or over 65, fine.
Yea Jeff, your right. Even you vertical compound hunters struggle to make good shots. I see it all the time on shows, where you hurt deer and they die slow or you never recover.
Crossbow is cleaner and quicker for the animal, and it's getting kids and wives out to hunt.
So Jeff, here. You suggest the season is shortened right? Obviously no one cares about opening of rifle to Jan. They won't take that away b/c no one likes the cold. So that leaves Sept 20 to like Nov 9th or something. What would you suggest?? When's the biggest kill rate for both archery hunters? Oct 24th to Nov 9th during the rut. So, that leaves Sept 20th to Oct 24th. I don't think anyone cares if that goes away, but I will tell you due to greed once again a lot of your other archers will be baiting illegally to get that one buck you want before anyone else.
There is no applicable solution. It's just like most of compound guys going out in groups to vote down extending the gun season years ago. However the difference now is that crossbow hunters is not built of just crossbow guys.
It's built of compound guys who converted( a lot), rifle guys, and new young and women hunters, and some new men. A lot of people willing to shoot a doe or a buck with cleaner kills.
The only possible solution is 1 buck a year for guys. Once again, we all lose. I shoot one deer every year. I still buy a gun license to get up north and enjoy that week with friends, however I pass up all the does and bucks and am willing to only shoot if something massive walks across. That being said, it's been over a decade where something 'massive' has walked across me up even in Cable WI on private land with food plots.
Now the state loses all that income to, and companies up north who depend on those two weeks if they say 1 buck a year.
There is no median man. The season has to stay the same. They can't logically look at crossbow and say it has to be shorter then compound when both are killing approximately the same deer now that is' balancing out and the new hunters that were going to buy a crossbow are out there.
I know how easy it is to shoot a deer during the rut and the gorgeous foliage. If they knock out dates for me, ill just be out there with a compound bow to pop off the deer I want. Most guys arn't shooting a deer at 30+ yards. They are hunting the EXACT same way as you are in a tree in the woods.
I support clean kills, not compound kills. You all can say as much as you want that it's about the herd but that's all crap. The root of all of this is more people in the woods to take all your deer you wanted first dibs on. Plus the fact that you had to get better at shooting your compound to be successful. Period. Period. Period.
If DNR and deep analysis is put together charts saying we are hurting the population then fine, but not a chart on kill success rate. All I hear is how much deer we have in the state, and people need to get out and kill the does just like the bucks.
The sales of licenses would of dropped off drastically without crossbow hunters. I know many men in their 40s to 50's that couldn't afford the trip up to a cabin anymore, or want to sit in the cold with a 50 50 shot of shooting a deer so they gave up hunting. Also a lot of men who couldn't pull a compound bow with their strength, but not qualify as handicapped.
So once again, spare me on all this crap everyone is spewing.
Or here. What stops guys from using this with a compound? http://www.lockadraw.com/
Now all i have to do is pick up, know my range with the rangefinder dots and release. Unless this is illegal already.
I am completely against guys using crossbows to shoot 50+ yard shots. Yet, god I can't tell you much I don't want my deer to suffer long. The last 3 deer I shot two went through the heart. The other was a double lung shot. I like the fact of things dying quickly I shoot.
Ron, you made it sound as if anybody can just pick up a bow (just like a crossbow) and go out in the woods and shoot a deer. I simply stated that you're full of it by pointing out that's not the case, and you agreed. All the other stuff you spewed about changing seasons is crap. It was fine the way it was. It kept most of the lazy hunters out of the woods. Now they're pouring in. Call me selfish, but I don't think there's anything wrong with weeding out a few due to their own laziness. If you really have a true passion for the sport, you will shoot a vertical bow if you want to hunt the part of the season crossbows are not allowed. Man, woman, or young kid. If you have a disability where you aren't able, you can shoot a crossbow.
Ron what are you going to do, if they set your season with no rut dates? just sayin
What we need is a new thread, " Hunting with Cross Bow over Bait ",,, that might get some replys,,,,again don't take it all too seriously
You didn't answer about the lock draw being illegal. If it's not, it's the same as crossbow. However, you guys invested your time in compound and invested your money and now are all up in arms because a law was changed.
You call it laziness now? I still shoot and practice my shots at 20/30/50 yards with my crossbow. Do I really have time to practice with a compound? Sure. However would I feel better with a clean kill with a challenging kill to have the deer suffer? Yes.
It's not about passion either. I have a passion for deer hunting. The 12pt I shot last year got within 15 yards and didn't tag me. It was during peak rut, and he was behind 2 does. Having passion doesn't equate to practicing or being compound hunting. Having passion is find a good spot, building a good stand, and committing a lot of time to get the deer you want as well as not getting marked while he walks in. Passion is finally also getting my wife to hunt and seeing her shoot her first doe ever. She has a shoulder injury from work, but would never qualify as a handicapp. Yea, I have passion for my loved one shooting a deer, but also not just hurting it with a compound.
Ground Hunter: What will I do? I stated that above. Take out the compound bow I also have and take that out for the rut dates and square that same deer off. I hunt good farmland where I see a lot of deer finally. During the rut there is no challenge. The only challenge is getting the deer you want before gun opens.
Yet.. It's highly unlikely they take that away. They take that away, they take away crossbow season, and sales, and money, and families hunting together. The one board member has strong ties to the wisconsin bowhunter association, and also gains sales from bow purchases. He is the same man who tried to get crossbows stopped minus for handicapped and old old men. Now this is his new mission. He presents facts poorly, and the other board members can clearly see his intentions.
He even stated people at the spring hearings didn't understand the question. Funny part of this all? DNR originally crafted a question to shorten the season, and he insisted he revise it so its clearer to understand. So, Mr Kazmerski re-defined the question himself to post.
I think it blew him off the post realizing he lost in all the 90% of the counties. So then it sent him scrambling and blaming other reasons like the question he crafted. Then he had have someone find ANY slide he could use as an argument against.
All you crossbow guys here. I insist you write to the board, attend any important meetings they discuss this further on agendas, and get your friends and higher ups in your county and DNR involved.
Also, in the end if we feel like they will limit us. I beg of you to bring up the numbers and how both groups are equally hurting the deer herd at 20,000 each. We really are not hurting the herd, and it's just evening the playing ground, but take down the compound hunters who are the main force behind this one board member. Ron Hulas is actually a guy working with Kazmerski. Ron Hulas is also a man who used to work on herd control in wisconsin who was busted for poaching over bait a few years ago and lost his position of power.
Yet, push the fact if it's about deer herd management. BOTH groups should be out of the woods during the rut which is their most vulnerable time. I beg of you, because this is the culture of compound hunters. To show out and force, and make sure the woods is theirs first because they feel entitled.
This is why guns season was never expanded years back. The compound hunters showed out in force.
I have never heard of this lock draw. I do hope that it is not legal, but since the crossbow is, I don't know why it wouldn't be. Ron, I'm not necessarily stating you don't have enough passion. As you stated already, you would make the switch if they shortened the crossbow season. You just simply choose the easier way since it is available. As for your wife, how do you know she would not qualify? Has she tried? My dad is 63 and can barely move his wrists. He gets cortisone shots as often as they allow. He will not switch to crossbow until he absolutely can no longer draw the minimum weight. I believe he shoots 50 or 55 lbs right now. He shot a beautiful 10 pointer I posted a while back in a different thread this year through both lungs. Is it painful for him to draw a bow? Yes. Could he qualify to shoot a crossbow? He's never tried so I can't say for sure, but I'm nearly certain he would. He is passionate about shooting the bow because he enjoys the challenge. It amazes me how many people are upset by this talk of shortening the crossbow season when they could just as easily switch to a real bow. They don't want the challenge. It is purely laziness. They make it sound as if their ability to hunt is being taken away when there is absolutely nothing stopping them from hunting with a real bow. Everybody just wants to take the easy way, and feel entitled to it. That's what the crossbow is really about. Anybody that tries to tell you different is full of it.
I'm done. Time for the weekend! You guys can now troll/insult and name-call like you all do after a post you don't like. However, I can see why it upsets you guys, but I also can see the same amount if not more that the season should stay set the way it is.
If it comes down to facts we are hurting the deer numbers for future years, then I completely agree to shorten it or put in place a one buck rule. However, both sides should have equal rights and both sides have equal arguments. In the end, I believe all men should be able to hunt during the best dates.
If the law doesen't change? Go buy a crossbow and get it over with if your a compound hunter and kill deer more cleanly. Don't worry, a lot of your friends who say they wouldn't already have. Heck, I even know a guy who brings his compound just for the picture because of the personal attacks he receives from people who live on this type of board. It's sad.
Later gents. If you live up north to mid-wisconsin put some food out for birds. At least till the grass is fully visible. Lots of robins dying off right now. Saw a few in washington county last night by my house. I put out over 200 nightcrawlers and fruit feed for them. They can't get to food sources, and they don't have the muscle or proper temps to re-migrate south. Just google it. Plenty of articles. By Monday down here the ground should be open again for them.
Once again Ron, all men can hunt during the rut. Always has been that way. Nobody is holding anyone back from using a vertical bow. If you're too lazy to learn to hunt with a vertical bow, that's your own problem. (Not stating you personally here, as you said you would hunt with a compound)
Ron- what is the main reason you choose to hunt with a xgun and do you support an airgun?
"...compound also needs to be suppressed then since they are both archery." Marginalized right off the bat. Anyone making such a stupid statement can not be taken seriously with anything else he writes. Maybe he wrote it while doing the Hula-hoop?
Jeffd - about 30 years ago, they came out with a draw lock system, it would hold the bow back 3/4 for you,,,,, I had a friend who had MS, and he used it for awhile,,,,,,
Once again Ron, all men can hunt during the rut. Always has been that way. Nobody is holding anyone back from using a vertical bow. If you're too lazy to learn to hunt with a vertical bow, that's your own problem. (Not stating you personally here, as you said you would hunt with a compound) Once again Ron, all men can hunt during the rut. Always has been that way. Nobody is holding anyone back from using a stick bow. If your to lazy to learn to hunt with a stick bow, that's your own problem. There I fix that for you. Only thing that changed is compound shooters were once the lazy ones and now there are to organized and greedy. And big fricking hypocrites.
"I also can see the same amount if not more that the season should stay set the way it is."
+1, there is no reason to shorten the crossbow season because a few greedy bow hunters are whining because they don't want to share their deer with others. Thanks to it being a separate season and tracked separately the numbers have shown that yes while hunters have had success with crossbows, when combined with other weapon harvest info the deer harvest overall shows there is nothing to be concerned about and there are plenty of deer to go around. What a great idea to track the crossbow kill separately, otherwise we would not know this. I also think the crossbow season has persuaded more people to take part in the great sport of deer hunting and the wonderful Wisconsin outdoors, and that is a great thing no matter how you look at it.
I remember when I use to waste my breathe on these subjects. The public voting has takin its place. The end result will be the end result. Anyone who is not happy with the end result can organize something to get their opinions heard. This is not the place. To see this thread go for this long, is petty. Come on gentlemen.
Noc, the public voting means absolutely nothing. If it did we wouldn't have crossbows for all.
I do agree though that arguing on here with the whiners will do no good. They lack even a small amount of common sense. I'm done wasting my time with the wanna be's .
You have to stand up and fight for what you believe in. Xgunners who arnt disabled or elderly are just plain lazy. I believe the xgun #s will continue to increase which is going to negatively affect my bow season, so yes, I will voice my opinion against lazy hunters.
RJN said; " I will voice my opinion against lazy hunters"
Do you also voice you opinion against "lazy hunters" within the vertical bow ranks that have embraced every new gadget and gizmo to make their hunt easier which vastly decrease the amount of practice it takes?
I agree RJN. Stick and crossbows are the primitive weapons. Recurve crossbows and then compound crossbows advanced after that. The introduction of Compounds was a huge advancement from the stick bow and they have advance even farther since. That is why I call compound shooter hypocrites when they cry about crossbow shooter. Compound shooters did the same thing to stick shooters by entering their sport with huge advantages. Now lets talk these 100 yard shots. Anyone can take a 100 yard shot be it stick, compound or crossbow. The whitetail limits a hunting shot to 30 or 40 yards depending on who you talk to. Anything farther is not an ethical shot and should be kept to paper shooting. Any hunter worth his salt should know that, but it is a verbal weapon for everything because speed sells. This all boils not to progress in the sport. If If I has my way there would be al limit on speed when hunting.
Yeah I hear you rut..
Dpms is from Pennsylvania? WTF is he doing here? You guys gotta pass him up like a dumb buck asking to get a (virticle) arrow... ;)
Jake is not from WI either. They are internet trolls, only here to try and advance the crossbow.
Capt at least your constantly wrong. LOL Try to absorb what I said. I know how you hate history when it exposes you for what you really are.
Jake, wrong? About you being a lazy hunter? About you advocating for lazy hunters? About you being a troll who only came here for the crossbow issue? LOL!
I see your 59, Hit you just right when compounds came out and you the lazy able bodied one grab he compound. I am 67 and have lived all three progressions. Went on disability in 2005 and retired now. Just don't like the hypocrisy of the compound bow people. You just are not all that much.
Jake from Michigan? Lol.. captmike don't waste your breathe!
I have lived in wi. all my life. What are you Nocturnal from PA?
Jake please be truthful. You have lived in Wi all your life but just showed up on this site during the crossbow discussions.... why?
Why not? This conversation has been going on for weeks. Are new people not allowed to join in?
Perhaps you guys should talk to Pat and make the WI. Page a closed group where only members that pass your muster are only allowed to participate.
Pasquinell I got the website from being on Crossbow Nation and with all the bullshit flying around I was curious to see what it was all about. Like I said I do not have the dog in this fight but I do have an opinion. And that opinion is that stick bow or recurve shooters were a much more forgiving group and let compounders use a lot LAZY people into the sport. And, now the compound shooter think that they are the be all and end all to bow hunting which is bull crap. Same as you same for able bodied crossbow shooters applies to compounds. If your able bodied why are you taking the lazy man route with compounds and not shooting stick bows.
Lol ^^^^ Good luck bowsite.. If that's what we should call it now? What's next? Crossbow nation partners with bowsite? NRA ads pop up too? Ravin gun ads? The 100 yard bullseye missile. Maybe in 5 years. Seeing as most will switch to the easiest. Or better yet. We will have AirGUN Nation trolls defending their rights on bowsite. Remember, though. My bowsite family, you guys are keeping them here when you comment. Hey droptine! Your overly opinionated. We get it. I thought you were better then that. I'm sure CBN will love you over there. Just sayin... The old days here, seem to be a thing of the past. Turkey season is here and it is half of what it was last year already. I'm with Trapper.. probably see you all in the fall.
Nocturnal; Is not what it used to be. There aren't enough turkerys. Wa Wa WA. Cry me a river.
Nocturnal; Is not what it used to be. There aren't enough turkerys. Wa Wa WA. Cry me a river.
Noc, I’m opinionated? Look at Captmike. He’s as bad as Rancid dominating threads.
I’m still waiting for him or anyone to post up sound scientific or biological reasons the season needs to be altered. The success rate is not cutting it when the overall harvest rate isn’t increasing with it.
Next..........
Jake, that's not what I meant and 'm not going to lower my standards to meet eye level with you, sorry.
Obviosly the technology has advanced but the concept is the same. Physically pull back, hold, aim and release. Now when a superior weapon gets allowed into bow and arrow season that has been the same for decades, anyone who is a true bowhunter is going to be upset. In my opinion, anyone who supports xguns for all doesn't belong on bowsite or anything that involves archery.
Look the gun harvest in 2017 was in the mid 90 thousand. We are fighting over a fraction of that for bow. And yet there are bucks next year to shoot. Sorry, that is all I see is greed on your part compounders. If anything you should be pissed at all the deer the gunhunters shoot. They are shooting a boat load. NUTS!!
Noc I just read what you wrote. Your standards I am not worried about.
Drop you didn't answer my question on the Raven. Do you feel that weapon belongs in the bow season?
What’s so special about the Raven? Are you falling for the advertising also?
Any person that’s decent with a bow and have a pin sighted for 100 yards can accomplish the same thing.
Also do you really believe those shots shown on target were consecutive shots and not edited?
Raven has come under fire from their own community for their advertising practice and their quote “your next rifle” it’s still a limited range weapon.
Until something tells me otherwise I don’t have a problem with them.
"Jake" - "Look the gun harvest in 2017 was in the mid 90 thousand. We are fighting over a fraction of that for bow. And yet there are bucks next year to shoot. Sorry, that is all I see is greed on your part compounders. If anything you should be pissed at all the deer the gunhunters shoot. They are shooting a boat load. NUTS!!"
JAKE - X2
As the saying goes, 600,000 "GUN HUNTERS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECIMATE THE DEER HERD YET", do you think 70,000 crossbow hunters will?
Oldhunter your making far to much sense for this forum. Me thinks it comes down to he rut and the greed of mankind. And, from the mouths of people that overwhelmed the stick shooter season. Makes you go Hmmmmmmmm.
What’s so special about the Raven? HAHAHA! OH NOTHING ... LOOKS LIKE A BOW TO ME!
Are you falling for the advertising also? YEP, PHOTO SHOP ALL THE WAY. NOT A TRUE TESTIMONY AT ALL.... (pssst... if it doesn't do what's advertised there might be some lawyer chomping at the bit to sue)
Any person that’s decent with a bow and have a pin sighted for 100 yards can accomplish the same thing. NOW DROP.... YOU DON'T ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT RIGHT? AND "DECENT"??? REALLY??? LMBO! I GOTTA CHECK MY 100 YARD PIN EVERY YEAR.
Also do you really believe those shots shown on target were consecutive shots and not edited? YEP
Raven has come under fire from their own community for their advertising practice and their quote “your next rifle” it’s still a limited range weapon. YOU MEAN YOUR COMMUNITY? OF COURSE THEY DID! WE ARE SAYING THEY ARE RIFLES WITH STOCKS, SCOPES SHOOTS FROM A TABLE RAIL ETC. IT VALIDATED WHAT WE ARE SAYING!!! THAT'S WHY THEY ARE UPSET IN YOUR COMMUNITY.
Until something tells me otherwise I don’t have a problem with them. I DIDN'T THINK YOU DID AND COULD HAVE SAVED YOUR FINGERTIPS FROM TYPING BY SAYING YOU SUPPORT THEM.
So do I in rifle season.
Pasquinell.... don't waste your time.
Not my community. I don’t shoot or hunt with one.
Still waiting for Capt. to provide the info I questioned. Or anyone else for that matter. Lots of avoiding and twisting going on.
The big deal with such a statement "here is your next rifle" think that you can shoot a 100 yards at a deer. Hey, you stand at one end of a 100 yards with the ravin and I will stand at the other end with a rifle. I will even give you the first shot. After that you better learn how to duck bullets. LOL It is all said for the sales. Most any compound can shoot a 100 yards also. That company is out to make big bucks fast and will be out of business within 5 years.
Nobody has a 100 yard pin on their bow.
You can't set your lower cam on a shooting rail and shoot.
You can't set your recurve/longbow tip on a shooting rail and shoot.
You can't set your lower cam on the window sill of a condo and shoot.
You can't set your recurve/longbow tip on the window sill of a condo and shoot.
You can't set your lower cam on your knee to shoot.
You can't do it with a recurve or longbow either
You CAN do all the above with a firearm and a crossbow. (should be together in the same season)
Pete, Pete and Pete. I hope that your not the one that takes me up on the shooting match.. ANYONE can put a 100 yard pin on any bow. I am talking hunting distances and a bench is never used for hunting. Bench shooters shoot paper. I pointed this out to you a while back.
Jake do you hunt from a tree stand, condo or the ground? You can rest a crossbow on anything like a rail, knee or window sill to aim and hunt correct? You can't with a bow correct?
Yes, it is possible but using a rail limits your scope of where you can shoot. Example; A deer comes in and it walks to close to your tree or even walk through below you and your committed to sitting and the shot is lost and the rail is completely in the way. I only hunt from treestands and that is why crossbow hunters usually stand so they can follow a deer wherever it goes. Your thinking of bench shooter shooting at paper or someone sighting in their bow. Or, it just fits your narrative. Another thing that you probably do not realize is that a crossbow only gets one shot. They take to much time and movement to get a second shot off. The your better off with a vertical bow.
Pas a crossgunner will never use a railing on a tree stand.... THAT WOULD MAKE IT TOO EASY.
Jake you are scrambling a bit and you know it. You totally did a Fred Astaire dance on that one but its okay. If we took a survey most would agree I am correct. Like I said, nothing against the weapon, just against the weapon in the archery season.
"The success rate is not cutting it when the overall harvest rate isn’t increasing with it." Clearly, you are not too intelligent. In the same sentence you mention "success rate" and then "overall harvest." It is the overall BUCK harvest and the associated success rate on those bucks that is the issue. You have not grasped it to this point and now I doubt if you could grasp it if I could write it in pastel Crayola.
No I am not. That is how I hunt and my friends hunt. I don't hunt condo. No even sure what the are in hunting terms. Rails get in my way. Why would I want to blow a chance at a good buck sitting down. Do you gun hunt? Have you tried aiming at something that is 20 yards or closer with a rail on? From the ones that I have seen the rail is up to just below your chin when your sitting. I see no use for it other than camo before you stand to shoot.
Capt said; And I said what a dick. LOL
I do not gun hunt but own many. I decided they give unfavorable advantage to the hunter. I gun hunted for years and decided to let it go. So... you hunt in Wisconsin and don't know what a hunting condo is? And never once, not once do you sit and use a rail or your knee? Come on man...
I have hunted bowhunted longer than your old. As for condo's that can be a lot of things. I don't gun hunt either but I have seen a few pretty elaborate stand for gun. I have used my knee a time or two if that makes you feel superior. I also vertical hunted and got a second and even third shot with my bow and you only get one chance with crossbow. l got that asked once or twice why I only carry three arrows. One was to shoot in the ground to uncock it. And the other was going along for the ride. Try cocking a crossbow in a treestand. That is dangerous. I tell you that I am from wi. and you keep questioning that. Do I question you on whether your from wi.? I came to the same conclusion with gun. I shot one a long time ago at 80 yards and I felt like I cheated so I quit altogether. That was back in the mid 80's. By the way Pete you can not crossbow hunt cornfield's either with one. I miss that. I used to wait for a stiff wind and silent stalk one row at a time. Veriical works fine but horizontal not at all.
Oh yes you can! I am friends with a gentleman that has had open heart and two bypass surgeries. He sits in the corn and shoots one every year with a crossbow in Crawford.
Superior??? I don't feel superior about anything.
A second or third shot means... oh never mind. I now know why you use a crossbow, its easier.
I did not say sitting in a corn field. I said still hunting through one. Haven't you ever cut across rows into a stiff wind and checked every roll. It is a blast. Yes, I know a second or a third shot means that you missed the first or second. Boy people must be on pins and needles hunting around you fearing that they did not do it as you see it done. You do know that people have varied opinions on hunting right? Of course it is you that does everything the hard way because your some macho purist. Why don't you use a long bow, recurves are so easy. And why not a spear and then you can look down on even more of the so called hunters in your area. Superior much.
Capt. For the last time!
Gun buck kill down. Participation down.
Bow buck kill down. Participation down.
Crossbow buck kill up. Participation up.
Overall the combined weapons used harvest is down and the kill shows only a shift in weapons used. There is no evidence of over harvest. Something I’m still waiting on you to provide details on to show otherwise Capt. Quit deflecting. Time to put up or shut up. It’s as simple as that.
Jake, you mention that the ability to get off a 2nd or 3rd shot with a vertical bow is an advantage that crossbows do not have. The accuracy of crossbows eliminates the need for a 2nd shot. You just explained one of the reasons they are a superior weapon.
DT, you cannot be that dumb? Success RATE. Do you understand what the word RATE means? I should just let this go but I so enjoy letting you make a fool of yourself.
You surly don’t understand Rates and trends.
Still waiting.
Glunker, that would be your slanted opinion. I have never spoken to any crossbower that said he never missed a shot. I know that I have. You get one shot and you better make it count or you are done.
I would encourage you guys to think beyond deer in the Midwest, weapons impact more than just whitetail deer hunting. There are many other species which are effected by the hunting method and weapon. Those being elk, bear, antelope, mule deer and turkeys to name some of the most common species already on a limited drawing. I hate to say it, but here in the west 75 yard shots are common with a compound on many of these species. Scoped crossbows where legal such as Wyoming, even much further.
Missouri I could not agree more. What we consider out of range with our quick reflex whitetails in Wi. is an average shot out west with mule deer and elk that have slow reaction time. When I went out west with vertical a 50 yard shot was the norm. I would expect the crossbow would take advantage of that weakness. I was hoping that it was not the case. Technology has taken both vertical and crossbows in the wrong direction in my view. They should put a limit on speed or it will forever damage our sport.
Unfortunately, quite a few wounded animals by all methods out west. Long range shooting has it's drawbacks, especially with arrows and bolts.
Yup Capt, while a mule deer will stand there and give you that 50 and now 75yard shot the whitetail would be tearing out of the area. That is why rifle hunters from out west hate the whitetail. They don't give them that look back shot I heard that Coues deer are really wired.
Jake, ok I will be more elaborate, I did not mean to imply that it was impossible to miss with a crossbow just very much harder. I suspect hunters trying 50-80 yard shots will miss more often but a bowhunters does not take that shot so the 2 weapons do not compare on that criteria as with all the others. Hope that is more clear.
SMH! This sums up this entire thread. It's like two groups of kids arguing over who gets to play on the ball field. Here's an idea, why don't both teams play on the same field? Maybe you can even keep track of the score and record outs! ;)
Glunker said; "I did not mean to imply that it was impossible to miss with a crossbow just very much harder. I suspect hunters trying 50-80 yard shots will miss more often but a bowhunters does not take that shot so the 2 weapons do not compare on that criteria as with all the others. Hope that is more clear."
Here is a nice chart from Ohio on shot selection and hits between crossbows and compounds. The reality is both user groups are taking very similar shots and have similar hit rates. There is no reason to believe that as the range increases, the chart flow will change much. As range increase, less shots are taken with both weapons.
Is a wound the same as a miss?
"Pasquinell - Drop you didn't answer my question on the Raven. Do you feel that weapon belongs in the bow season?"
I will answer your question. YES, As long as it is used by a ethical hunter that when shooting at a live animal to keep the shots under 40 yards. The same can be said for compound bows in hunting. Call Raven and ask them point blank if they advocate shooting at a live animal at 100 yards. If anybody does not think people are shooting compound bows at 100 plus yards, just google it on you tube. I even seen one shooting at 160 yards.
So lets discuss this further. When shooting arrows either from a crossbow or a compound bow, there are two categories. 1 - shooting at targets/competition, 2 - shooting at live animals. Either weapon can be accurately sighted in to hit bulls eyes at 100 plus yards under ideal conditions. In hunting, shooting at live animals, there are no ideal conditions for 100 plus yards. If you study trajectory tables, you will see how high either weapon would have to be aimed. miss-judging the range by a mere 10 yards would cause a complete miss. Even a simple 5mph crosswind could push the arrow one or two foot to the sides. Anybody that wants to shoot either compound bows or crossbows at targets at 100 plus yards, go for it. If you want to use either weapon for hunting, ethically they are a short range weapon.
Yep -advantage crossbow. And please you proper terminology - crossbows shoot bolts not arrows.
Using a scope and resting the weapon - advantage crossbow.
If I fart at time of arrow release from a real bow, my body could convulsed making a clean miss. If I fart while resting the cross gun on my knee, rail or sill, the farts impact will be less severe on the shot. Of course that changes with the duration and severity of said fart.
Setting the stock firmly against the shoulder while looking thru the scope at that 100 yard Raven shot at a deer while resting it should help.
Free handing a real bow ... well I'm looking forward to seeing a 200 yard pin if 100 yards are now common.
"Pasquilnell - Yep -advantage crossbow. And please you proper terminology - crossbows shoot bolts not arrows."
Guess I need help on that one. Other then length, what is the difference between a modern crossbow arrow and a bolt?
Not trying to be a smart hinder here, but when I need projectiles for my crossbow, I go the arrow section at a archery retailer. When I need bolts, I go to the fastener section at the hardware store.
Speaking of shopping, just a suggestion, maybe Walgreens could help with your gas problem.
Google “100 yard bow kill you tube” and see just how many videos are present.
It seems your next rifle was present long before 3 years ago.
Pete, I beg to differ. If in a sitted position while resting your elbows on your knee or rail or sill AND YOU FART, the result with a crossbow would be a complete miss because upon farting it would propel your body upwards causing you to shoot below the target. LOL
Pasquineel said; "And please you proper terminology - crossbows shoot bolts not arrows."
Actually, Since you brought it up. Modern crossbows shoot arrows. "Bolts" are short, heavy projectiles, often made of various metals that were developed in medieval times to pierce armor and chain mail. Above are some examples of true crossbow bolts.
Same arrow manufacturers refer to arrows sold for use in crossbows as bolts, to lessen the confusion during advertising and in the retail space.
After reading table 9 I can see why you able bodied compound shooters take the easy way instead of shooting stick bows. Can you sniff out the hypocrisy there?
For years people would get on here and say they quit their recurve " because they owed it to the animal to use the most accurate weapon available in the season, that being the compound bow ". I am not a crossbow or compound advocate, but is this line of thinking by some no longer true?
Oldhunter, now I AM mad. Why would you refer Pete with his gas problems to Walgreens when he could go to Walmart and pick up his groceries and pick up something at the pharmacy there. Really!! LOL Talk about wasting ones gas.
Dpms - anything you need to say and or do to try and negate the LARGE difference between the two weapons in an effort to keep the fire against squashed. It's obvious that the xbows manufacturers are interested in your time here on bowsite. You are a good spokesman for them. Problem is, you're comparing apples to oranges. Where is the stock on a compound or recurve ?
Pete, there is a similar difference between a longbow and a compound bow. Where are the cables and pulley and sights and mechanical releases found on a long bow. A look at the huge difference in wounding of animals between the two. Why are you blind to those glaring differences and stuck on stupid when it comes stocks which is part of a crossbow.
Pasquinell said; "Dpms - anything you need to say and or do to try and negate the LARGE difference between the two weapons in an effort to keep the fire against squashed. "
I suspect you have not being paying close attention. I have always said from the beginning that crossbows have an advantage over other bow types. Known data supports that position. I have no reason or desire to pretend that crossbows are the same as a compound bow or spin the truth. I prefer to discuss issues using facts. In states that separate different bow types out, crossbows usually have a 3-5% advantage in success rates. Data does not prove any LARGE advantage when it comes to real world hunting performance.
What I have also said it that the advantages are not large enough to justify crossbows not being included into existing archery seasons. They are most similar to compound bows and belong next to them in archery season. The general acceptance of the compound bow, and all of the gadgets and gizmos that are available today to assist archers using compound bows, paved the way for crossbow inclusion. I also believe they are bows falling under the definition of a bow that states that bows are devices that propel arrows solely from energy stored in drawn limbs.
Jake I understand your becoming agitated when stocks are mentioned but my question was to Dpms.
Data does not prove any LARGE advantage when it comes to real world hunting performance.
That's a great statement. You guys are living in a fantasy world. Data from who? A select group of xbows users? Manufacturer sponsored "hunters"?
I hunt with a guy that didnt bow hunt for 15 years because he didn't have the time to invest he said. But when the xbows came out he has shot one every single year since over a legal pile of corn. One and done with zero effort. That's a fact for you.
Pas.... dont waste your time with these guys. There out of staters and their pet monkey.
Pasquinell said: "That's a great statement. You guys are living in a fantasy world. Data from who? A select group of xbows users? Manufacturer sponsored "hunters"?
From neither. Some states keep statistics of various success rates. I believe Michigan has crossbow success 1% higher than compounds. Other states have it at 3%. Some at 5%. If my fantasy world is game department data, I am comfortable with that world.
Everyone say hello to dpms from Pennsylvania! Just pinning the tail on the donkey.
Anyone want to see Jake from Michigan?
Yes, I want to see Jake from Michigan. LOL
Nocturnal said; "Everyone say hello to dpms from Pennsylvania! Just pinning the tail on the donkey."
Actually, that is not me. That is my father who is not a hunter. If you could please edit your post to take his picture off of this thread as he has nothing to do with this issue, I would appreciate it.
Dpms, he can put anyone's pic up there and say whoever he wants it to be. I think that you got to them. When you can not stop the message attack the messenger.
Your right dpms.. this is you... I guess you'll have to contact a moderator to take the picture down. I cannot, I'm sorry.. so I'll post a more accurate one.. maybe you and your trolls can try to ban me also. I would appreciate that. Seeing as this state forum has been overrun with garbage
I like that. He is posting pics of people's father and we are the garbage. To much! LOL Post away sunshine. If you post pics of my family I will do my best to have you banned.
That picture is more like it. Not sure posting photos of other members without their permission is acceptable here or not? Yeah, I would appreciate it if my fathers picture was removed by moderation if possible.
Not sure why I am "garbage" to you? I have been nothing but courteous and respectful here. Do we hate other hunters just because of what weapon they choose to support or hunt with? When I hunt with my longbow, am I no longer a hated man?
I do have to say thanks to those who have got in touch with me to voice their support of my approach to this issue. Even here, there are some good apples scattered around, I must say. Though we may disagree on certain issues, folks that really want to promote our sport find ways to work together respectfully on common goals, putting disagreements on some other things aside.
Looks like a sissy crossbow shooter to me. Scattered apples? Only under your stand. LOL!
After listening to all your pure hatred that comes out of your mouths I have decided to stop my 40+ year lifetime membership to the WBA. Your all consuming hatred is driving members away and your to arrogant to see it. GOOD LUCK
Women's Basketball Association?
Or WBH?
Pete as usual your missing the point. You can look up my name on their lifetime members. Ask Nocturnal, he is good at digging into other people business.
CaptMike - On April 17 of this thread, you posted a graph/chart that shows license sales, buck harvest, success rate for years 2010 thru 2017. This same chart was used in the crossbow presentation by Greg Kazmierski at the April 11th Natural Resources board meeting. Can you tell us if that actual graph/chart originated directly from the DNR, or was it designed by Greg Kazmierski, using certain information provided by the DNR?
It says it based on data provided by DNR staff and from the website.
If you take the time to sort out the registration numbers you can see that in many counties, especially in the north, buck harvest success is over 50% with a crossbow. Some are near 70%.
"Skookumjt - It says it based on data provided by DNR staff and from the website."
I am aware that the data used on this particular graph/chart originated from the DNR.
The question still remains, Who specifically designed this particular graph/chart?
Can this graph/chart be found on the DNR website? If so, where?
Kaz put it together for his presentation at the NRB meeting. It isn't from the DNR If you want a copy, you could try getting it from him or request it through the NRB.
OMG. I went hunting for a week & this is still the same. Not worth the time to be on here as the xbowers are getting dumber every time a new one shows up. Most don't seem to know the Wisconsin laws & actually believe the DNR stats. They spin it any way they want. They had 3 sets of numbers for the xbow success rate. The last one put out by Keith was a joke. Including Patron licenses as all xgunners really washed out their success rate. Then they say they didn't qualify for a xbow under the old rules. That is just plain BS. There is no qualifying you just ask & you shall receive. Even chiropractors will give you one you morons. They are not bow cops. They could care less. Your excuses are all lies. My biggest problem with xguns besides using a gun in the rut is the practice that is used hard by large groups starting on opening day & that is driving deer & taking wild shots with their xguns. Maybe blaze yellow or pink should be mandatory for pussys using xguns. I would feel a lot safer. I'm out of here.
whew,,,, took awhile to get here to read the posts, this forum needs to use a page system, so you can get to the ending last post faster..............
CaptMike - On April 17 of this thread, you posted a graph/chart that shows license sales, buck harvest, success rate for years 2010 thru 2017. This same chart was used in the crossbow presentation by Greg Kazmierski at the April 11th Natural Resources board meeting. Can you tell us if that actual graph/chart originated directly from the DNR, or was it designed by Greg Kazmierski, using certain information provided by the DNR?
"Skookumjt -Kaz put it together for his presentation at the NRB meeting. It isn't from the DNR If you want a copy, you could try getting it from him or request it through the NRB."
Skookumjt - Thank you for that information. However back at you or CaptMike or anybody for that matter that could explain some major discrepancies with the numbers used in Kazmierskis chart.
When you compare the categorized numbers (licenses sold, buck harvest, success rate) to the numbers on the DNR's March 22nd "Weapon use by Wisconsin deer hunters"report, The numbers for years 2014, 2015, 2016 are pretty much a identical match. For the year 2017 only the gun numbers match, However the numbers for archery and crossbow are considerably higher. On the DNR's march 22nd report they separated the numbers to not include upgrades or patrons license numbers for all years 2014 thru 2017. On Kazmierskis data chart it appears the numbers for years 2014 thru 2016 also excluded the upgrades and patrons, but for 2017 the upgrades only (not patrons) were added, into the archery and crossbow numbers which makes a huge difference on the success rates for 2017. Any explanations or is this possibly Just a mistake that needs to be corrected, as this does have a very differing impact on the final data?
Hope I didn't get to confusing or long winded and thanks for any explanations.
Wow guys named Mike sure are going off the deep end here.
You guys really need to step away for a while and contemplate what’s important in your lives. If this is it here you are either very blessed or out of sorts.
By the expressions exuded here I tend to believe it’s the latter.
Oh, and Capt. I’m still waiting.
I go on this while I watch baseball
LOL Drop Tine. I went off the deep end long ago. I'm so Far Out I'm on my way back in again. I did step away for a week & nothing changed. I am going to try to stay away from any thing to do with xbows on here. Nobody is going to change anybody's mind & it heats me up. The sad part is I took a quick look for the Turkey thread & it must be buried under all this crap. Take Care fellow hunters.
"Can you tell us if that actual graph/chart originated directly from the DNR, or was it designed by Greg Kazmierski, using certain information provided by the DNR?" That chart was not made by the DNR or by Kaz. Who made it is not nearly as important as in how honest it is. The departments numbers were not lies but were not assembled in an easily read, straightforward and understood format. The same numbers can be made to say different things. At this point, no numbers needed for you guys who support the crossbow.
What??? ^^^^
LOL Albino, agreed 600+ posts and we’re right where we were.
Did anyone actually think there was going to be progress made on an internet forum? This is just a place to ask provocative questions and gain insight into why issues become reality. In this case, with crossbows, it is simple. What has clearly been identified is that most who hunt the modern archery season in Wisconsin and Michigan prefer to hunt with crossbows. Many use a crossbow, support friends who use crossbows, and buy crossbows for their children as their introduction to archery.
There are simply very few real bowhunters left. That is supported by almost all known data and common sense when one looks at what stores are selling and have available for hunters. Also note, the Michigan bowhunters forum is dead, few bowhunters left in Michigan. The Wisconsin forum is vocal but really only a few making the noise. Most in Wisconsin also are no longer bowhunters, in fact many are closet crossbow users and enablers. The party is really over guys. Bowhunting ( as defined by the P&Y Club ) is declining and will continue to decline as will most organizations and clubs who only accept bowhunters. The crossbow revolution will continue to grow.
Missouri, what do you expert is going to happen? When compounds were introduced to the Archery season many ABLE bodied individuals join the sport and some stick shooters crossed over including me. When I joined a 50% let-off, shooting fingers and 200fps with hand shock was the norm. Fast forward to today and Compounds shoot what 350 or 360fps with mechanical release and because of newer designs little hand shock. Compound shooters are the main equipment carried going into the woods. When I started with WBH it was something to be looked up to. Now, it is nothing more than a bunch of blackmailing hate filled clingers wanting to think that they are first cousins of the stick bow shooters and ignoring the vast improvement in their own sport. You dug your own graves by pushing technology into your compound bows. If you want to compare apples to apples than any able bodied compound shooter should be forced to shoot stick bows. But, you will have none of that but preach to able bodied crossbowers the same damn thing. WAKE UP. OH, and by the way stick bows and crossbows ARE primitive weapons. Compounds got 50 years or so on them.
I think Jake if you read my posts carefully you will see I largely agree with you. I am a selfbow shooter for 49 years. The compound and continued acceptance of technology spawned the modern day crossbow,...... which is nothing like the primitive crossbow.
Hunters, and only hunters are to blame. They are the ones who buy the technology which supports the tech industry and encourages even more advancements. When I read "big money" is to blame, I shake my head. Who do you think big money is? It is the hunter and his willingness to spend money. Manufacturers only cater to their desires, they do not make them buy it.
The acceptance of the compound and all it's advancements was the catalyst for the modern scoped crossbow. In fact, it is largely these same compound shooters who are advancing to the crossbow.
There are very few arguments in this entire thread that really meet common sense objectives. For me, bowhunting is emotional and I draw my own line based on how my desire for challenge and accomplishment are defined. When you read here about all the wounding, it is no wonder the voting but non hunting public has archery in it's crosshairs. Seems archery hunters are supporting their claims...... right here on a public forum.
I was anti compound, anti inline and anti crossbow..... and have been a three time loser. I am in the minority, and am fine with that. I am entitled to voice my unpopular opinions for all to see. Join Compton's today!
Modern compounds do not shoot 350 to 360,most vb hunters are shooting 240 to 280.Do not look at rated numbers there from 360 grain arrow,30inch draw,70lb draw.Thay changed 540 grain,30 in draw and 60lb with older bows.My last fingers bow shot 220,my stick bows are at 190 my release bow 260 big deal.
Missouri, I agree with you admire you as a stick bow shooter. Facts are hard to argue with. Good hunting to you.
Nor does my Excalibur 330 matrix. With hunting arrow it shoot 302. Manufacturers post with lighters arrow bump the speed because Speed sells.
" CaptMike - "Can you tell us if that actual graph/chart originated directly from the DNR, or was it designed by Greg Kazmierski, using certain information provided by the DNR?" That chart was not made by the DNR or by Kaz. Who made it is not nearly as important as in how honest it is. "
I must say it is quite important who made this chart/graph, as it is quite obvious there are mistakes with the numbers. If you want to use the term "honest", then the chart/graph used by Greg Kazmierski would be classified as "dishonest. As there are obvious discrepancies with the numbers for 2017 with there origination source compared to the numbers sources for years 2014 thru 2016. You need to reread my post and actually compare the two reports, maybe you are confused with what I am pointing out. Whoever designed this report obviously made a mistake, and it needs to be corrected.
When you compare the categorized numbers (licenses sold, buck harvest, success rate) to the numbers on the DNR's March 22nd "Weapon use by Wisconsin deer hunters"report, The numbers for years 2014, 2015, 2016 are pretty much a identical match. For the year 2017 only the gun numbers match, However the numbers for archery and crossbow are considerably higher. On the DNR's march 22nd report they separated the numbers to not include upgrades or patrons license numbers for all years 2014 thru 2017. On Kazmierskis data chart it appears the numbers for years 2014 thru 2016 also excluded the upgrades and patrons, but for 2017 the upgrades only (not patrons) were added, into the archery and crossbow numbers which makes a huge difference on the success rates for 2017. Any explanations or is this possibly Just a mistake that needs to be corrected, as this does have a very differing impact on the final data?
Hey, I'm not really here but I was reading some posts on the Monster Muleys forum & they make us look like good buddies.
Oldhunter, I'm not going to waste my time with you but what makes you think the source numbers are accurate? The issue is now with the NRB and as a member, Kaz can and did explain the discrepancies.
"CaptMike - Oldhunter, I'm not going to waste my time with you but what makes you think the source numbers are accurate? The issue is now with the NRB and as a member, Kaz can and did explain the discrepancies."
CaptMike, you still don't understand what I am saying. What I am asking is, On the report that Kazmierski used, the years 2014 thru 2016 EXCLUDE the upgrades, for the year 2017 the upgrades are INCLUDED. WHY???????????????????????????????????? That obviously creates a very different outcome.
CaptMike, you also responded that particular report did not come from The DNR or Kazmierski, Where did it come from? I was merely asking for information on this forum with hopes that someone could share some information on this matter, but apparently not.
"WHY????????????????????????????????????"
"That obviously creates a very different outcome."
I'm pretty sure you answered that question yourself^
Jake, your still trying to argue the point that the compound is the same as the x-gun? WHAT DON'T YOU GET!!!! ARE YOU THAT BLIND!!! You still have to draw, aim and release a compound, the x-gun is a gun. It is loaded and ready just use it like a rifle, not a bow.
"the x-gun is a gun."
Are you ready to back that up? I can list a half dozen facts right away that prove your comment wrong. For the heck of it, here is one that I would like you to try to disprove. A deer can react to the arrow being launched from a crossbow, which can result in a poor hit or a complete miss. From a rifle, it is impossible since the speed of sound is slower than than the velocity of the projectile.
Every time you and others say a crossbow is just like a rifle, you lose credibility from those who can look at issues objectively. And for the record, I have been clear that a crossbow is not the same as a compound bow. The crossbow does have an advantage when all else is equal.
Old, you won’t get anything from Capt. All his replies are simply a bias for a specific weapon.
He has yet to provide any biological or scientific reason the season needs to be adjusted. Just “lip service”
Sounds like Kazes numbers were made up leaving out certain stats to advance his cause and up percentages. Given reason all his testimony should be thrown out. How could Kaz gather numbers differing from the DNR? It’s them who gathers the data and compiles the stats?
Anyone that has a hat in the fire and can profit from the decision and on the board should recuse himself from any and all discussions and decisions made.
Livetohunt, No, I am saying that a compound is like a crossbow the same as a stick is the same as a compound. I am saying that you and others are being hypocritical for judging crossbows when compounds did the same in progression as crossbows. I am saying that the true primitive weapon are stick bows and crossbows and compounds are vast improvement over stick bows compared to compounds to crossbows. Do you get it!! I have a question. Why are the vast majority on here compound shooters instead of being original stickbow shooters. Answer; Because it is EASIER to shoot a compound. The same thing you compound shooters accuse the crossbow user of being. It is called progression.
I am a stickbow (recurve) hunter and have no issues with a compound because of the way you still need to draw, hold, release to make the shot. I have issues with drawlocks (illegal in WI) and X-guns because your already to go. More so with the x-gun because it is shot like a rifle. There season needs to be limited, it is not the same as a bow. dpm, come on? do you shoot a x-gun like a bow or a rifle? give me a break.
Live; Actually the recurve is an improvement over the stick bow and YES they are similar. To me there is something different in all phases of the compound. The draw is easier because of the let-off. The hold is easier because your only holding a small percent of the draw. The release is easier because of the mechanical releases. Everything made EASIER. The crossbow is the same as the stick bow because it is a true primitive weapon. Also crossbows have improvements on being the scope. Having a scope does not mean that In hunting situation it is use to infinity. The distance is determined by the animal your hunting. In this respect crossbows have progressed just like compounds have. IMHO
“There season needs to be limited, it is not the same as a bow”
Actually it’s “their” a compound shooter need their season limited also. A compound is not the same as a stick bow. Success rates are I would believe far greater for compounds over the stick bow.
Drop Tine; Fair is fair. But compared to the gun harvest the Archery season takes far less deer. And, yet there are plenty of deer come next season. So where is the argument when archery season is not the main source of harvests In the first place?
Live2HUnt said: "There season needs to be limited, it is not the same as a bow. dpm, come on? do you shoot a x-gun like a bow or a rifle? give me a break."
Did you read my post. I said crossbows are not the same as a bow. I also asked you to try to disprove something which you have yet to address?
To answer to question if I shoot a crossbow the same as a rifle. The answer is a crossbow is held the same as a rifle, but I do not shoot at game like a do with a rifle due to the significant differences between the two when the projectiles leaves the weapon. Things such as speed, noise, arrow versus expanding bullet, game reaction, range estimation, wind, shooting arc, tissue damage etc....
In case you missed my direct question to you. You claim a crossbow is a rifle. Disprove the fact that a deer can react to the shot of a crossbow and move prior to the arrow impact, which they cannot do with a rifle due to the fact that the speed of sound is slower than the speed of the rifle projectile.
One change that certainly needs to be made, in regard to crossbow use in WI, is to disallow the use of scopes with any magnification (zero magnification only).
Since someone will more than likely mention it, might as well disallow magnifying peep sights for compounds as well; although I have never seen one in person or met anyone who used one.
Certainly no place for magnified sights in either the WI archery or WI crossbow seasons.
Joe
DPMS-would not (perhaps) your time be better spent working on the strange Pa regs. Is an autoloader rifle more/less effective than a bolt action? You cannot use the autoloader at my last check. Why is hunting not allowed on Sunday? (Perhaps someone's religious beliefs?) Why start firearms deer season on a Monday since a lot of guys start their workweek on Monday.
Been working on changing those too! We finally got semiauto for predators and small game last year. There is some movement on both a Saturday gun opener and Sunday hunting as well.
Lol! "Working on it" must mean you post drivel on those topics also? Internet warrior!
I love my crossbow do not have to think about torque just like when I shoot my 7mm.No problem with getting spotted like when drawing my compound,or stick bow.I sight my crossbow in and forget it just like my 7mm.Now we can get the air bow in are season great.Roy Case must be rolling in his grave.
What they should eliminate on both compound and crossbow is the pulleys. This would cut down on the run away speed issue and then real men could claim to be stick shooters or at least close.
He is all about guns. Things such as "speed, noise, arrow versus expanding bullet, game reaction, range estimation, wind, shooting arc, tissue damage etc"
That is funny stuff and nothing short of weak! Boys he is all NRA. Look, even Ruger supports his clothing.
"Drop Tine" - Old, you won’t get anything from Capt. All his replies are simply a bias for a specific weapon. He has yet to provide any biological or scientific reason the season needs to be adjusted. Just “lip service”
Sounds like Kazes numbers were made up leaving out certain stats to advance his cause and up percentages. Given reason all his testimony should be thrown out. How could Kaz gather numbers differing from the DNR? It’s them who gathers the data and compiles the stats?
Drop Tine, Have to agree with you. Guess it does tell a story that a certain few on this forum seem to have all the answers, until they are asked a question.
Are turkeys easier to hunt with a crossbow than with a hand drawn bow? Anybody use a crossbow for turkeys in Wisconsin or Michigan?
Are turkeys easier to hunt with a compound bow with 85% Let-off and stabilizers , mechanical releases peep sights and sights then a stick bow. Anybody use a compound bow for turkeys in Wi. or MI. Hint, I am baiting like above.
OId guy, you and the prostitute lover DT deserve no serious answers when you cannot comprehend simple facts. Yes, why don't you have Kaz's testimony "thrown out?" LOL!
Geeze's Capt sometimes I want to just squeeze your cheek and shove a bar of Lava soap in your potty mouth.LOL
Says the idiot that pays a PH thousands to sit over a water hole to shoot animals and call it hunting.
Still waiting!
Jake, feel free. DT, jealousy is such a terrible trait. Now we have to add that to your other bad trait of greed.
oldhunter, your question with the stats is
100% valid and I too would like to know the answer. I suppose only Kaz could explain the discrepancies and where his numbers actually came from.
You should know by now that the Capt has never once backed up any claim he's made with facts. He'll simply just call you names when he knows he you dropped him on his head making him look dumber than normal.
Yes Happygolucky, even Lava soap will not help him.
Happy, you are not nearly smart enough to stand a chance with me. You show up every once in a while to throw a bomb from behind your wives skirt, then disappear again. You had stated I received compensation from crossbow interests and I challenged you to prove that. In typical fashion and like a little momma's boy, you duck behind your lacy panties. Still waiting for your proof, otherwise you the hypocrite and do exactly what you claim about me.
"CaptMike" - "OId guy, you and the prostitute lover DT deserve no serious answers when you cannot comprehend simple facts."
Captmike, Would you please "explicitly" point out one simple fact on this forum, regarding my questions, inquiries, responses, that I did not comprehend. PLEASE BE SPECIFIC.
Old, earlier in this thread, you said, "As the saying goes, 600,000 "GUN HUNTERS HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DECIMATE THE DEER HERD YET", do you think 70,000 crossbow hunters will?" What I have said time after time after time is that it is the RATE at which crossbow users are harvesting BUCKS. I do not think the crossbow users will kill all the deer. I fear they will continue to take more and more bucks from the landscape, before the gun hunters get a crack at them. IF this happens, 600,000 unhappy gun hunters have a real chance of getting the ear of legislators, who could mandate a shorter season, for crossbows or worse, for vertical archery hunters. I'd like to see a shortened crossbow season to bring the rate of kill back in line with that of vertical archers and gun hunters. For the last time, it is not a biological issue, but rather a social issue.
There was a time we had no seasons, and guns did decimate the herds. As Captain has pointed out, season length and available tags for various sex of the species regulate the herd size, not the weapon. As killing becomes easier, there will be shorter seasons, or fewer tags where draws are required........therefore less opportunity. Good post Captain.
CaptMike good points like normal
For those that think the gun hunters will have no voice when they have had enough. The removal of EAB is a perfect example of otherwise.
Rut, that is a perfect example.
And who’s going to kill the deer? Gun participation is down, Bow participation is down and the kill reflects that. But the herd still needs to be managed.
You have to control the herd by managing the does. Remember, other species are involved too, such as the bear drawing and turkeys.... as well as elk and antelope here in the west. Not all species are as prolific as deer. And, there are always wolves if hunters worry there will be too many deer in the face of declining hunter numbers.
DT, game hog much? You are always worried about killing the deer, but your comprehension is lacking. It is about killing bucks. I don't think a sledge hammer could get that through your thick skull.
I’m looking at numbers as a whole. You want to pick on one demographic. Overall the harvest is down.
27 more bucks per county is not an alarming rate. You say shoot doe’s to control the herd. How many nubben bucks are taken when doe tags are available? I mean a buck is a buck.
Wow, this guy is worse than dense. Anyone else want to take a try at it?
Actually you are. You are just focused on one item in the grand scheme of things.
"Nobody is holding anyone back from using a stick bow. If your to lazy to learn to hunt with a stick bow, that's your own problem. There I fix that for you."
Hey Jake, I'm not usually one to be a grammar or spelling Nazi, but if you're going to "fix" something I wrote, you could at least try a little....
Surely people "should" be able to see from the photos above that the stick bow and the compound bow are close cousins. The compound is simply a progression of the stick bow. The crossbow is in a class of its own. Not a rifle, but fired like a rifle. People for the crossbow have said it themselves, the crossbow has been around a long time. It did not progress from the stick bow in recent years. It has always been in a class of its own.
Jeff, good post but logic falls on deaf ears when talking to selfish, lazy people who need to try and defend their hypocrisy.
"People for the crossbow have said it themselves, the crossbow has been around a long time. "
I think that is a stupid argument, the gun has been around a long time too, we dont allow them in the archery season either (for now). Who cares how long a weapon has been around , its not relevant.
Jeffd, come on the first photo the woman with the great posture is only holding back 15% and using a mechanical release and gadgets everywhere. The second photo is a pure shooter holding all the weight of the bow and shooting fingers with no gadgets hanging all over the place. The third is pretty close except I have never used a any type of tripod to shoot, but that is OK. By the way that second photo shows a person that practices endless hours to accomplish that art whereas the first and third take very little practice for hunting purposes. As I have always said the stick bow is the purest of the pure in archery.
Longbow, I couldn't agree more. My point is that some of the crossbow guys have used that as an argument in saying that the crossbow has been around longer than the compound bow. Others have stated that the crossbow is just a modern progression of archery. That is not true. The compound bow on the other hand is a more modern progression of archery. That is the point I was trying to get across.
Jake, you are correct on the fact that the stick bow is more complicated to shoot than the compound. I don't disagree on that. That's because bows have progressed. But a crossbow is not in the same category. It's not just a progression. It's a completely different weapon that is fired in the same form as a rifle. COMPLETELY different. You really believe you could hand someone a compound who has never shot one before and they could go out to their stand and put a kill shot on a deer???? I'm asking because I believe most could with a crossbow.
Jeffd, I will always be in awe of people that shoot stick bows. That being said, I would never buy a crossbow and walk into the woods and hunt with it. First I buy bare crossbows and put a scope on it that I like. Now that is not just putting it on and shooting it. You have to sight it in to the crossbow's speed. And I buy good carbon arrows for it, which have to be shot with the broadhead that I want to use and weed out the flyer's. After the scope is set to the crossbows speed and the arrows are flying good. THEN I would think about heading for the woods. I have hunted with stick, compound and crossbow since I was disabled in 05 and since I am betting you have not used a crossbow, then you read the narrative that fits what you want to think about a crossbow and run with it. Like I said earlier, if someone wants to shoot a crossbow at a 100 yards I will stand at the other end and let you take the first shot. After that you better be good at dodging bullets. There is no comparison in that respect.
"CaptMike - the RATE at which crossbow users are harvesting BUCKS."
If you are using the misleading data report fabricated by Greg Kazmierski, LOTS OF LUCK.
"CaptMike - I do not think the crossbow users will kill all the deer. I fear they will continue to take more and more bucks from the landscape, before the gun hunters get a crack at them."
That is your opinion based on speculation. That's OK, everybody can have a opinion. However, other states that have included crossbows in hunting have found after a handful of years, that licenses sales, harvest rates, etc. level out and settle in. The end result was, (In their words) the sky was not or did not fall.
"CaptMike - 600,000 unhappy gun hunters have a real chance of getting the ear of legislators.
Since the year 2014 when crossbows were included in deer hunting, I have yet to hear ONE SINGLE GUN HUNTER complain about crossbows shooting to many deer. The only complaints (and Whining) I have seen or heard is coming from the small group of elite Wisconsin Bowhunters Association members. Other then some on here, Thirteen to be exact. Want proof, ask away.
But you know what, we are just spinning our gears here and accomplishing nothing. You or nobody else on this forum has answered my original inquiries. Simply because you don't have any answers. Or you haves answers, but don't want them to be known to the public.
So, enough is enough.
Jake, You missed my point completely. I was not talking about setup. Pretend that the crossbow is already set up and sighted in. I don't have to shoot one to know that I could kill an animal at 30+ yards with it as long as it is sighted in. I could not have done that with a compound, and anybody that says they did or could is lying. A compound requires practice to get proficient with it. A crossbow does not. Trying to state that shooting a crossbow is similar to shooting a compound bow is BS. If this was the case, there wouldn't be such a push to keep the season the same as the archery in the first place. Why do people want to hunt with a crossbow during the archery season?? One simple answer.... Because it's easier!
Jake if you took a guy who gun hunted but never touched a compound or crossbow and gave him one shot from each, which would he do better with?
Hey, you were the guys comparing crossbows to guns. I'd say the crossbow but if it is only one shot he would not hit anything. I had a brother that tried it. the multiple dots in the scope threw him for a loop. And, he almost cut his thumb off with the string. He had not a clue on yardages. But if you only gave me one bullet I believe that I could hit you at a 100 yards and most could not do that with a with one arrow out of anything.
Look... If the crossbow wasn't easier by a lot, there wouldn't be such a push for them. Plain and simple. If you really think it takes even close to the amount of practice to become proficient with a crossbow as it does with a compound, you probably don't belong carrying any kind of weapon.
Jeffd, there is no reason to get upset. We can talk about this. What gets me is that this is a mirror image of the explosion of people taking up compounds and crowding the stick shooter. They were far easier to shoot and there was a big push for them because they were easier. I see the same thing happening all over again. Is it wrong, time will tell.
I'm not upset. A compound is easier to shoot than a stick bow. But... the compound is merely a progression of the stick bow. Technology has changed. My point is that the crossbow is not a progression of the stick bow; It is shot using completely different fundamentals. You still have to draw a compound and you cannot use a rest.
How about this for a competition... Let's set a target up at 40 yards. Set your compound up however you want. I will shoot your crossbow (since I don't own one) from a rest since it is very easy to do. See who shoots a tighter group. I have never shot a crossbow but I would put money on it that I do. If there is someone on this site around the Hudson, WI area that owns a crossbow and a compound, I think we should give this a try. It would be a great experiment to see if these crossbow guys are telling the truth.
You guys need to just give up on jake. He is just a pig head and has his heels dug in, nothing you say will convince him otherwise. Guys who are using them are not going to give an inch, half the stuff I read from them is just bullshit. Like the movie frozen says, let it go, let it go!!
Over 730 posts in this thread, impressive. Of course 250 or so of those posts appear to all be from Captmike, but still, that's an impressive number. Folks that frequent this forum must enjoy talking about crossbows.
Yes, Frumperrrr, I am an avid contributor. Glad that you noticed. I am also happy we can amuse you with such simplicity as counting posts. Even elementary brain activity can help keep a simple mind functioning.
Longbowbud, yes I am pigheaded. But there is a reason for it. When I got sick my wife also did to. I had to sell my hunting land to pay the hospital bills. All my life I thought that I was going to retire and hunt till I died. That is all I wanted from life. I had to sell my land. I could not shoot my bows and started giving away stuff to people that I thought would take care of them. Bowhunting meant everything to me. Year round that is all I thought about. Then I bought the dreaded crossbow and it breathed life into me. No it is not a gun. No it is not a bow but it is something that gets me into the woods and I can plan and scheme and get out maneuvered by a buck or two and that I owe to the crossbow. So I really care less what your elitist view is of bowhunting because you have not walked in my shoes. As for able bodied people hunting with them I really am not sure because I have never walked in their shoes either. I do know that I would not keep anyone out of the woods to hunt. I know how it feels.
"So I really care less what your elitist view is of bowhunting because you have not walked in my shoes." Yet you litter these pages with your drivel touting the use of crossbows when the law already had allowed for you to use one?
Capt, you would like to control when I say and what I say but it ain't happening. Prick.
X2 CaptMike.
Previous law already afforded him the use of an xbow. No need for this new season; hopefully it is shortened.
As the xbow season, in its entirety, will not be going away, shortening the season and disallowing the use of magnified scopes would be a great starting point to leveling the playing field.
Joe
Well then lets disallow mechanical releases. Has nothing to do with the original bow and sting other than making it easier. There really is not any need for it, just laziness. They just do not want to put the time in to perfect their finger release.
Jake, thanks for confirming my opinion of you. It has nothing to do with your sob story but everything to do with you promoting unlimited crossbow use.
Capt I did not say anything about crossbow use. I stated about mechanical releases for vertical bows. Man, talk about pot calling the kettle black. I think this is all about 50 years or so of unbridled improvements in the compound bow and now something came out that out does them so stick your arrogant nose in the air where the suns don't shine.
"Well then lets disallow mechanical releases."
Jake, what a perfect idea; without a mechanical release the xbow would be obsolete/illegal!
Finally, we could put this thread/issue to bed!
Joe
You know what? It would be worth it just to see you wannabe's shoot at least somewhat like where it began.
So I was on the main page and stumbled onto this in the link.
Setting up 3D courses for 100 yards plus now and becoming the norm. It’s funny how everyone embraces technological advances except a small minority group here.
This is the new technology argument I spoke of earlier. Some here happen to think that the crossbow is just an advancement of the compound. It is not. It has been around forever and it is a completely different weapon than a vertical bow and is a superior weapon type. That is the issue.
So I was on the internet and stumbled onto this in the link. Shooting the Raven 600 yards plus now and becoming the norm. It’s funny how everyone embraces technological advances except a vast majority group here.
680 yards on the first shot!! Whaaaaat NO WAY!!! Hahahaha
If you watch the video they clearly admit there was more than 1 shot taken.
This in no way compares to actively setting up courses of 100+ yards where scores are kept and prizes of monetary value are given.
Many of you here have admitted to buying a new bow “every” year to have the latest and greatest. Why? Chasing technology?
"Many of you here have admitted to buying a new bow “every” year to have the latest and greatest. Why? Chasing technology?"
What has considerably changed in them over the last decade? I'd like to know?
Come on Noc , you know nothing about crossbows and now you want us to tell you about compounds. Is there something that you anything about.
Come on Noc , you know nothing about crossbows and now you want us to tell you about compounds. Is there something that you anything about.
You really are just to stupid to talk to Jake. I wish you would have listened to me before when I asked you to read over what you say.
Right to name calling. lost he argument so soon? LOL Shhhh, I left the t off of the.
I wish you the best on your illness Jake..
"You know what? It would be worth it just to see you wannabe's shoot at least somewhat like where it began." OK Lone Ranger, you are the only one who has or does shoot a stick bow. LOL! Get a life, better yet, get a job. By the way Jakey, "stick your arrogant nose in the air where the suns don't shine", and "prick" are just two examples of you calling names. Hypocritical much? If your level of intelligence is representative of all crossbow users, you are certainly a sorry lot. You must make supporters like dumberrrr-hunterrrr proud to associate with you.
Oh, Capt are we not friends?? LOL Coming from the guy that is condescending to everyone and will not answer a simply question when asked. You sure can dish it out but can not take it. LOL And you have no idea why the WBA is losing members right and left. Clueless much! Now Noc, coming from a guy that posts personal pics of ones family for no other reason than to hurt them and you come up with a statement like that. Sure, OK.
Sorry Jake, I associate with folks a bit more intellectual and self-reliant than you seem to be. You know, people who draw their bow. Then you say to Noc, "Now Noc, coming from a guy that posts personal pics of ones family for no other reason than to hurt them and you come up with a statement like that. Sure, OK." All I can ask is, butt hurt much? LOL!
Ahhhh, that is the Capt I have come to know. Carry on.
I do have to say, I am against crossbows for physically able hunters, but it is true the success of the increasing let off compound bow with modern sights did lead to the overwhelming acceptance of the scoped crosscompund bow. I cannot see how others fail to see and admit that progression. It is here, no turning back.
Missouri, I am not crazy about able bodied people using crossbows either. But that being said I have no regard for compound shooters that hold 15% at full draw and have all the gadgets hanging on it. The hold is next to nothing and it was OK for them to progress unfettered with the sport. They to me have no grounds for opposing crossbows. Now stick shooters have a world of things to complain about but they are of a breed to themselves. They are at a whole new level.
Probably. The crossbow guys have gone back to their wives, MI or PA and the issue has been handed to the NRB.
You show up every once in a while to throw a bomb from behind your wives skirt,
It would be wife's skirt Captain. I only have one. But, in all honesty, it was your wife's skirt ;). Wow, you are teaching me how to lower myself to your level.
You know the truth in that you all accepted payment to switch your votes. Every single one of you switched your "No" votes to being pro-xbow in 3 months. How does that happen? You voted in favor of having xbows run the same season as vertical bows when you could have stood your ground. You already told us all it was all about the money. I'm sure the steak and lobster dinner the Xbow Federation and NRA put on for all you cavers was not enough. The NDAs are working.
You never have answered this question - Did all your SCI members and SE Bowhunter members know you were caving and going pro-xbow on them with your vote or did you just surprise them all?
Wow...this horse just won't die, eh?
I will say though, I'm gonna miss bowhunting.
"Wow, you are teaching me how to lower myself to your level." Sorry Happy, you have been a lowlife weasel on this forum since your first post that I read. Again, show some proof of your contention. Otherwise, you prove what a spineless windbag you are.
Happy you are pro crossbow. You stated you have friends who use them, and they are welcome in your camp. What is the beef since you are clearly a crossbow enabler and liberal sympathizer? I have never liked crossbows or compounds.
Missouri I do not see any end to the advancement of both crossbow and compound and I believe that it will at the least alter how it is today or lead archery to its demise. There needs to be limits on what a bow can do to keep it primitive. Right now it is running itself off the rails. And, to point fingers at each other just divides us and works against us. IMHO
No Missouri, I am not pro-xbow. I have a disabled hunter who has used one in my camp which I have told you 100 times. I also had a 10 year old kid use one. Neither of them killed deer although they had opportunities. You have stated before that you are even against disabled people using them. I also have told you 100 times that I value friendships over anyone's weapon of choice. Sorry that you hold inanimate objects in higher regard than human lives.
Let me help you out going forward. Just cut and paste this quote as it fits every post you make on every board on Bowsite - Bowhunting is dead. Sell your stuff. I've told you all this before. I hate people who shoot compounds. I hate people who shoot xbows. I am a far superior person in life because I shoot trad gear. I hate disabled people too. I hate people who shoot guns. I hate all people who don't hate people who don't shoot trad gear including disabled people.
Glad I could help Mb.
Speaking of low-life weasels Mike, welcome back! You really represent the low-life weasel community well.
Don't you see the hypocrisy in how you attack the xbow hunters while you were one of their primary enablers? It is just like Kaz too who voted yes to xbows, calls his shop the Midwest's Leader in Xbows, and then in the next breath says he's against xbows.
Do you ever feel guilty about stabbing all those people you represented in the back for your personal gain? I really wonder what they all had to say when they learned you caved. I hope that selling your soul was worth it to you. Hypocrite.
I hope you got Pegasus in the h20 and am hammering on the Lakers on Lake Huron West!
Lol! Happiness, you are not sounding so happy. Little guy syndrome got you down? Again, no proof of your contentions, just more bubbly sounding noises, similar to those you typically emanate.
I could not be happier. Life is grand. Bowhunting is still alive and well.
How come you never any answers there Captain. NDAs are working as designed. No guilt at all for caving on your peeps for accepting personal gain? I have to believe you surprised the hell out of them when you voted pro-xbow. Oh the hypocrisy ;).
How's fishing? Getting your wife any new skirts for Mother's Day?
"How come you never any answers there Captain." Incomplete sentence and lack of punctuation. Happster, you appear to be an all-around idiot. Just more Happy, gaseous noises.
Unhappy that is a flat out lie. I have no issue with handicapped hunters using a crossbow and there are many posts here to verify that. I would however never use one myself, and I am against the Wisconsin diaper brigade. Please stop posting lies.
The little unhappy guy is prone to lying. Most here do not take him seriously but rather use him for entertainment.
Oh man, you guys are so full of yourselves. Let me give it a try. Compounds are no different than water tubs, food plots, mineral blocks, PHs guides, ect. All those able bodied boys and girls would shoot stick bows only it is just so much easier to do it with a compound bow. Love the grand standing. LOL
Stinkbait, meet Jake. I think you two will get along good together. It will make all of you very Happy.
Capt, you know that shooting compound is just the easy way out instead of shooting stick bows for all you able bodied he men that are so prone to bragging.
Man do we have to empty the trash again! Thought we did this once before? Rolls right back in..
I think this thread has been pretty good. Occasionally some drink too much and spread the fake news. Lots of closet crossbow lovers, enablers, and users on this site, just a sign of the times I guess.
Neverbait, I hate to say it but your right. When I first started hunting it was stick and string and at first you could hunt most anywhere and nobody cared. Then the compound came along and the no. of bowhunters exploded and after that you better ask permission to hunt anywhere. It progressed to the point where you least land out to bowhunt. And then SAME as the compound did, the crossbow entered the market. Same old same old. The times are changing.
Agreed, and do not forget all the limited draws and quota seasons which came around the same time as the hunter and technology explosion. Now we have point creep and limited opportunity everywhere. Hunters and manufacturers seem to be in favor of more hunters... but outside of whitetails in some areas much of the resource cannot handle the technology, hunter numbers (even in decline) and success rates. Hence the closed seasons, limited seasons, limited tag availability (draws), call in quota seasons, and drawing point creep with many of the other species throughout North America. Wisconsin bears and bear hunting are a prime example.
++ From: Missouribreaks 05-May-18 Private Reply Happy you are pro crossbow. You stated you have friends who use them, and they are welcome in your camp. What is the beef since you are clearly a crossbow enabler and liberal sympathizer? I have never liked crossbows or compounds. ++
Lemmie think ... Scot is gov and his republican buddies are in charge of both legislative bodies and make the rules for a long time now. Liberals did this to you?
I have never given a private reply, all of mine are public, more fake news. It is true, I am not a fan of crossbows or compounds,.... neither are for me as I do just fine with my longbow. Others can use them and it is perfectly legal, I simply am not an advocate and never will be.
Stinky, stay tuned, in progress.
Pope and Young have an excellent description on their website which describes a bow and bowhunting. When using their definition, it is now an established fact bowhunting and bowhunter numbers are in a very rapid decline in the United Sates.......... and especially so in states where scoped crosscompounds are legal for all during the general archery season.
When using the P&Y definition,........How many of you have participated directly, or indirectly as enablers and supporters, into the decline of bowhunting, bowhunter numbers, and all true bowhunting associated clubs in the United States? The closet door is open, please be honest and come out.
CaptMike..... .......What a great day to be a archer!!!!!!
It is a great time to be a real bowhunter. Once again we are becoming the small minority who choose to hunt the harder way. The group who puts challenge and hunting skills to the forefront of the mission, not just simply killing a precious resource. I am proud to be a real bowhunter,........... a great day indeed.
I am very proud also while I'm stringing my bow up at my truck knowing I am a bowhunter and all my practicing and work put me at that moment.
Oh, I had to laugh thinking about you on hear who (try) and say there is no difference between a compound and an x-gun. I was talking to a buddy who talked about screwing up on a buck of a lifetime because he was having a hard time drawing his bow and got busted by the buck at close range. So, he went out and bought a x-gun so he would not have that issue again. Ya, they are the same weapon for sure? LOL.
Yes, I have to laugh when compound shooters compare themselves to stick bow shooters. Oh, the hypocrisy. LOL Oh, by the way the so called hunter that screwed up the close shot should not blame his equipment when something goes wrong. Man up and get your timing down pat. It was not the compounds fault at all. He screwed up. Hell he is only holding 15%. Draw and hold that puppy.
Recurves have advanced, compounds have advanced, crossbows are now very high tech compared to crossbows of yesteryear, muzzleloaders are true rifles now. Hunters are the one's driving this, NOT manufacturers. The "big money" comes from hunters wallets, and only hunter's wallets.
Where will it all end, who knows. All we can do is try and make bowhunting great again for the few dedicated and real bowhunters!!!
Missouribreaks, I don't think that it will end. Man always strives to make things easier. The only thing left is for it to be regulated with restrictions. I don't see the DNR doing anything because they usually push for more deer killed. Not sure where the answer is. Sad situation indeed.
++ From: Missouribreaks 07-May-18 Private Reply I have never given a private reply, all of mine are public, more fake news. It is true, I am not a fan of crossbows or compounds,.... neither are for me as I do just fine with my longbow. Others can use them and it is perfectly legal, I simply am not an advocate and never will be. ++
that is simply the result of a cut and paste of your entire post. we can't quote back on this site so cut and paste is the way to go far as I can tell. Perhaps I should edit out the private part, but it makes clear that the cut and paste is verbatim, without any modifications. sorry for any confusion.
Sticks now have less competition for the P&Y record books. A win!
Yes, the crossbow guys will take deer in Sept. and there will be plenty of YOUR deer left to hunt.
You guys can talk about this for a lifetime!? Why don't you guys get each others numbers and let this thread die! Lol
I am on my way, of posting the longest thread, on the bowsite, on the Wis Forum, so lets keep it going,,,,,,, what is it you do not like the xbow,,,,,, lets discuss
Ground Hunter, I do not like its heaviness, looking through a scope, drawing it, one shot only, cost of them and the chance that it may cut my thumb right off. The good about them is that it gets me in the woods which cancels out all of the above.
Buckjabber, I like the simple solution. Put your season and one buck only. That would be fair across the board.
I like the simple solution. Put your season and one buck only. That would be fair across the board. This so the x-gunners can use there weapon? Oh ya, that's fair.
Live, I said it would be fair. You want it all one sided and want crossbowers out of your so called bow season AND judging by what you have just said, you also want more than one buck by using the gun season. OH, your the guy that thinks that he is a hunter until a miss occurs and then blame the equipment. Got it. ME, ME AND ME.
I do not think it would work,,,,, I think in the CWD zones, they should be killing more than one buck,,,,,,,,,, I believe what eventually will happen, probably about 2019, is that a xbow season will be set, within the general season frame work........
I have no idea, why anyone would be upset with a crossbow during the turkey season, since it is a any weapon season,,,,,,,,
It would be a change Ground for sure. They could make it more than one buck in CWD zones. Lots of variables
Longest thread MMMMMMM what can we talk about now!
Lots of hypotheticals. However, don't lose sight of the fact that the thread was started in response to a Spring Hearing question about a potential change in the crossbow season. In that regard, the wheels are in motion. Now we need to wait and see what comes of it.
Anyome of an ETA when we'll hear something about setting the season?
I heard three times now from friends in the field, that there's talk of shortening the season for the crossbow. The apparent blowback from real archers is likely going to shorten the season to 4 full weeks starting the 2nd Saturday in October. Frank Draftman, Thomas Littlefield and Rodney Blackburn are three people I've heard it from, and none are related. None of them gave specifics on their source, but what I find odd, is all 3 said the same starting date? So maybe our voices were heard? Perhaps unlike other states we can call it what it is. Crossbow season. Squirrel hunters will likely be up in arms not wanting to share the woods with these new hunters. Can't blame them.
Hahaha, 4 weeks and the rut. Works for my wife as we don’t hunt till bear season is over anyway.
DT, thanks for proof of your greed and selfishness. Not that it was ever in question.
Capt, same could be said for you. Hypocritical much.
Beat me to it Jake. Poor boy is stroken out! Hahahaha
Jake, OH, your the guy that thinks that he is a hunter until a miss occurs and then blame the equipment. Got it. ME, ME AND ME. You think like a killer instead of a hunter. With the limited equipment I use, it's all me when a miss occurs. Unlike your type that say's oh, there an easier thing to kill with, the x-gun. Loaded and ready, just pull the trigger. Also, I have all this time to use it, perfect. I will stay a proud bowhunter that has worked to get proficient enough with a bow to cleanly kill an animal with my learned skills. You can stay with a bait pile and gun, just don't say you killed your deer with a bow.
Psst, your the one that brought it up. I don't hunt with a gun. Your the one stuck on stupid. Your so full of yourself that everything you see is so much less. I learned a long time ago that people that keep having to tell you that they are all that are NEVER all anything.
Jake, yes you do hunt with a gun during archery season. Will the reduced usage impact you financially?
Well, if the crossbow season is shortened to something similar to the dates mentioned above we all need to thank captmike for single-handedly making this possible for all of us with his invention of the magical "separate" season. Just think, if it wasn't for this completely "separate" season, deer hunters using compound bows would still be forced to unfairly share their easy to kill rut drunk bucks with deer hunters using crossbows, but now since the "separate" crossbow season might be shortened.......oh, wait. ;-)
In all seriousness though shortening the crossbow season to that type of time frame is stupid and will just cause confusion. A much better idea would be to run it from September 15th through January 6 (identical to the archery season) but shorten it by not allowing crossbows to be used during the 9 day gun deer season. That would cause less confusion while still shortening the crossbow season and make the whining compound users happy and the chest-pounders like captmike still proud of themselves. It could also create more rifle sales as crossbow users might purchase rifles so they can take part in the gun season, which the NRA should back. Win win for everyone!
Pete, will what impact me financially. Not following your train wreck.
Live, you showed what you really are when you laugh at the reasoning behind switching to the crossbow. If you were any type of hunter you would have explained to the compound shooter that it was HIM not the bow that missed the big buck. No, you had to stroke your ego and laugh at his decision. We would go nowhere with you in charge.
I think that stick shooters should demand that all wheeled and cabled contraptions should have a separate season and maybe call it the catapult primitive weapons season. Maybe put them with the crossbows and let them hate each other to the death.
One season, one buck, do your thing. Populations are controlled by harvesting does.
Dumberrrrr said, "Well, if the crossbow season is shortened to something similar to the dates mentioned above we all need to thank captmike for single-handedly making this possible for all of us with his invention of the magical "separate" season." Thanks Dumberrrrrr but I did not do it by myself. I played a minor part. There were many involved, although by no surprise, you were not there. That the separate season was genius is easy to see. Had there been no separate season set up, the DNR Board would not now be considering a modified season. Thanks for playing, and for helping to make my point.
DT said, "Beat me to it Jake." No surprise there. The reality is limited ability to reason and think has consistently put DT toward the end of the line. Jake, you could say it but that would not make it true. The archery season as WI hunters have known it has maintained a relatively equal and consistent success rate with gun hunters for quite a while. Not so for the crutch, err, crossbow some of you lean on.
No, I just have better things to do than babysitting a brat Capt.
"No, I just have better things to do than babysitting a brat Capt." But not so much to do that you have time to respond to one? LMFAO!
Your doing a great job of alienating yourself on here from the number of PM’s I have received. So keep it up!
"Had there been no separate season set up, the DNR Board would not now be considering a modified season."
There is no reason to shorten the crossbow season other than to cater to greedy folks like yourself that don't want to share your deer with others that choose to use a different weapon, as if there aren't enough deer for all hunters to share. Pure greed on your part.
"Capt Spend more time getting that brilliant cross gun season changed with the DNR board and less time making a fool of yourself on bowsite,"
He's a one man show but he has like 3 followers and when they post it's funny too as you can tell by reading their posts they ernt the smurtest bunch-o-folk either. lol good stuff.
Hunter you nailed it. When the cable and wheeled contraption entered the market their was all kinds of room for them but over the years with even more improvements in the compound their is now no room for crossbows. Pure greed on their part.
"Your doing a great job of alienating yourself on here from the number of PM’s I have received." DT, I could care less what others think. I am not looking to win a popularity contest. You and your pen pals can keep the circle jerk going, I am fine on my own.
Blubbererrrrr gets schooled so comes back with "There is no reason to shorten the crossbow season..." My God man, how ignorant are you? The DNR Board thinks there might be a reason, so what drivel you spew means nothing. Carry on now, send DT another touchy-feely PM.
Well the head of the NRB and Kaz were both in attendance at the CC annual convention and neither had anything to say about the crossbow season and following the statewide vote, question 18 to adjust the season was rejected.
There should be a diaper only season, for toddlers and incontinant citizens.
As always it boils down to MY DEER. Pure greed on display.LOL
Jake , either you are being intentionally obtuse, or you are stupid as a stone. No one is saying its my deer, again for the umteenth time, the bow season is open to anyone who uses a bow, real simple. Anyone !, just buy a damn bow, practice, and go hunt. Do we need to say it slooooower? The greed comes from people like you who want what they want, damn the rules and the season.
"CaptMike" - "There is no reason to shorten the crossbow season..." My God man, how ignorant are you? The DNR Board thinks there might be a reason."
Lets be correct with your statement. At this point in time, only one member (KAZ) of the DNR board seems to think there is a reason. His reasons stem from the WBH. Within the last two years, who, besides the certain members of the WBH have been complaining about the crossbow success rate? BE SPECIFIC.
Long, how stupid are you. Compound BOW, CrossBOW. Open your eye's.
And there is your answer, I know you are but what am I . Brilliant. Yup, stupid as a stone.
Is an airbow a bow too? If a crossgun is a bow, just like a real bow, why the debate? Why has it always been not allowed until whiners like you got lazy and cried the blues until they were let in? By your "logic" it should have just naturally been part of the real archery season.
You can call a crossgun, you know the one with the horizontal limbs and a stock anything you want to make yourself feel good, justify your greed etc. You want what you want. Damn future bowhunters, as long as you get what you want, and feel good about your greed, you can just keep up your arguement.
Missouri, you really need to take my advice and just post the boilerplate I created for you since you post the same shit incessantly on every board on bowsite -->
Bowhunting is dead. Sell your stuff. I've told you all this before. I hate people who shoot compounds. I hate people who shoot xbows. I am a far superior person in life because I shoot trad gear. I hate disabled people too. I hate people who shoot guns. I hate all people who don't hate people who don't shoot trad gear including disabled people.
Captain, when are you going to tell us what all your peeps felt about being stabbed in the back when you mysteriously turned $$$$pro xbow$$$$ and $$$$caved$$$$ on your vote? They had to be so proud of you. NDAs are a great thing there Captain. Working as designed.
Long if I go by your name and assume that you shoot a longbow, why the hell did you group allow those masses of pulleys and cables and mechanical release and sights to enter you world in the first place. Now you can put up or shut up.
"You can call a crossgun, you know the one with the horizontal limbs and a stock anything you want to make yourself feel good, justify your greed etc. You want what you want. Damn future bowhunters, as long as you get what you want, and feel good about your greed, you can just keep up your arguement. "
The rules are that there is a magical "separate" crossbow deer season that takes place during the exact same time period as the archery deer season that was pushed through by people like Captmike who you should be thanking (according to Captmike as he pounds his own chest all proud-like) for making it happen. People are simply taking part in the legal crossbow deer season that Captmike helped create. What "rules" and "season" are being damned? What exactly are you crying about?
Actually I have never used the term "hate", fake news on your part. Hate is Liberal Dem term.... for the never happy entitlement crowd.
I do not much care for demies either! No hunter should be a dem.
" Damn future bowhunters"
Well if they are using a crossbow they aren't future bowhunters, they are future crossbow hunters.
MO, happiness chimes in just enough to serve as a constant reminder what a lying POS he is. He has no substance, substantiation for his lies, thus no backbone. Probably typing from behind the safety of his wives Mother's day skirt?
Crosbowerrrrrr, you are welcome.
Oldhunter, I guess you missed the number of people who voiced their displeasure at the Spring Hearings? You guys with pure emotional arguments are not very good at making a point.
“Oldhunter, I guess you missed the number of people who voiced their displeasure at the Spring Hearings? You guys with pure emotional arguments are not very good at making a point.”
Here is a point of interest for you. More people showed up in favor of not changing the season than did for.
Boom, there it is and the numbers don’t lie. Oh and by the way still waiting for you to add some substantial biological or scientific reason the season needs to be changed. Wants and greed are not substantial evidence.
" Oh and by the way still waiting for you to add some substantial biological or scientific reason the season needs to be changed. Wants and greed are not substantial evidence."
DT, what substantial biological or scientific reasons were there for crossbows being forced into bow season? I'm not busting your chops as some do. I am asking a question just as you are.
Rut, to keep hunter numbers up in a stagnant sport? Well, and of course money.
DT, I am busting your chops as someone needs to find a way to allow logic into your thick noggin. You continue to come up short on your ability to comprehend. Old said, "Lets be correct with your statement. At this point in time, only one member (KAZ) of the DNR board seems to think there is a reason. His reasons stem from the WBH. Within the last two years, who, besides the certain members of the WBH have been complaining about the crossbow success rate? BE SPECIFIC."
So, I was specific. I brought up the Spring Hearings. I did not say what the vote was, I simply brought it up as evidence of other besides Kaz and the WBH thinking there was a reason for structure change. Unless all those who voted in favor of change were WBH members, it is very good evidence that there are others in favor of a season change. BOOM! There it is and the words don’t lie. Now, and for the twentieth or more times I have said this, there is not, nor does there need to be, a biological or scientific reason for a structure change. At first I thought your argument stemmed from simple greed but the more you write, I believe it stems more from greed with a healthy dose of ignorance.
Jake says; "Long if I go by your name and assume that you shoot a longbow, why the hell did you group allow those masses of pulleys and cables and mechanical release and sights to enter you world in the first place. Now you can put up or shut up."
For the Ohh many'th time Jake, YOU STILL HAVE TO DRAW, ANCHOR, AND RELEASE A COMPOUND!!!! NO WHERE CLOSE TO A X-GUN!!!!!!
Live the draw on a compound is next to nothing from a stickbow. The anchor is close but again your holding next to nothing with your wrist attachment. And the release is a trigger release. the stick bow has a finger release and needs years and years to perfect. Compared to a stick there is NO comparison but your OK with that RIGHT. Get over yourself and let people hunt. The compound was introduce because it was easier and brought more hunters into the sport which translates into MONEY. This is the same go around as with the crossbow only your blind greed stands in the way.
My Greed you keep saying, If I was greedy like you say, I would go buy a X-gun to use so I could make sure any buck that walks by me can be shot with ease. Instead, I went with the recurve, and that you say I am being greedy about. Greedy to me would be sitting on a corn pile with that x-gun mounted on a bi-pod in a blind.
Well live, you should have opened your big mouth when the compounds invaded YOUR hunting land. The WBH has turned mostly into a hate group and that is why they are losing numbers. You stepped aside when it came to compounds so now you have no credibility.
I had no issue with compounds, the act is still the same. It is easier than a trad bow, but it is still shooting a bow. What is shooting a x-gun like? A Bow or a Gun?
A crossbow is a bow with limbs and string and has to be drawn. The crossbow differs from a gun because in shoots an arrow and is only a fraction of the speed of a gun. It also kills by bleeding not shock and the crossbow gets one shot only compared to a gun that get multiple shots. It is as much a bow as a compound is. When compounds came on the scene it was the same damn argument. Maybe you are to young to remember the introduction of the compound. I do give you credit to staying true to your sport. Damn hard with a stick bow.
A toddler in diapers can buy a Wisconsin deer tag and shoot a crossbow, not true of a compound bow.
WHAT, now you hate babies to?? LOL Hate group for sure.
WHAT, now you hate babies to?? LOL Hate group for sure.
I started with a recurve in 74 and switched to a compound in 77. Switched back to a recurve 4 years ago.
Yes, I switched around that time to, to compound. 2002 all hell broke loose and had to go on disability in 2005 and take up crossbow or give up the woods. Now 67 and remembering the beauty of the recurve bow at the start of all this. What poundage are you drawing back? Got to be getting tough. Yes, stick and string has it hands down on the flavor of the hunt. I admire those that still carry them. Are your numbers holding up hunter wise?
Yes, I switched around that time to, to compound. 2002 all hell broke loose and had to go on disability in 2005 and take up crossbow or give up the woods. Now 67 and remembering the beauty of the recurve bow at the start of all this. What poundage are you drawing back? Got to be getting tough. Yes, stick and string has it hands down on the flavor of the hunt. I admire those that still carry them. Are your numbers holding up hunter wise?
I just bought a 56# @ 28 Wes Wallace TD, But draw at 30 so around 62#. Great price on the bow, but maybe overbowing myself. I am going to get a set of 45# limbs for it. There seems to be a steady number of us out there and maybe even growing according to the owners of the Footed Shaft. I will never regret going back to Traditional, it brought a new life to my bowhunting/shooting. I have a hard time stopping when I start shooting. That flight of the arrow and the style's of the bow really hooked me.
Excellent! Where is the tip hat icon?
I don't think the airgun has a chance in hell of being in the archery season. It has no string or limbs. This is more or less the sky is falling fear.
But it has a stock and scope so hopeful they put it in the gun season where it belongs....
One time I saw this horse in South Carolina....it laid on the side of the road dead.... I walked up and kicked it. Really didnt understand why people like kicking dead horses so much....still don't.
Tweed, they are swinging for that 1K mark. Maybe the latest article in the trash paper will push them over. At least the residents. Starting to look like Jake is talking to himself. Bring it home Jake.
OK, Tweed. First off a gun is like a crossbow instead of the crossbow is like a gun. The crossbow came around way before a gun. Smile.
Jake keeps stubbing his toe with every kick, just not quite bright enough to realize it hurts.
Crappy, just stating facts. You still come off as a prick.
Now please tell me what the physical similarities between the stick bow and the compound bow are. I will start it off. THE STRING.
Well let me show all the things that are NOT similar to a stickbow versus a compound. Peep sight, split limbs, sights, mechanical release, pulleys, cables, eccentrics, stabilizers, arrow rests and carbon risers. Did I miss anything. Now with all these differences should we have a separate season for the compound bow to?
The only way to end the divisions is to have one medium length season, use whatever weapon you choose to harvest your animals. That way, everybody can have fun and equal opportunity for all.
Missouri your making to much sense. This crowd lead by Capt, who cannot look away from the mirror, have no idea how to compromise. I agree with you that one buck and choose any season that you want.
God, it is like pick a subject and you guys bitch. No wonder WBH is losing members.
No wonder the xbow association went under. They lost all their members & it didn't take too many years. They were just riding on the coat tails of all the things WBH took 70 years to get. They got it all handed to them on a Silver platter. Your Welcome. We will be teaching over 2000 kids to shoot archery in the next 2 days like we have the last 4 years since the Youth Expo at the MacKenzie Center. It is great that the xbow people get to sit there with their finger up their a$$ & do nothing but cry & talk smart. They can shoot an xbow there but there is no challenge for these young kids so they don't bother. Just one of the things WBH does for the future of hunting.
Albino, you are making too much sense. Emotional curmudgeons like ol' Jakie do not process sense or fact very well. WBH does much for archers. Crossbow users are not archers.
70 years you say. That means that the Stick shooters started the WBH and the compound shooters rode on their coat tails. Compounds have only been around for maybe 50 years. By the way has anyone found anything other than the string that is similar to the stick bows. Compounds don't resemble anything but EASIER.
Unfortunately the vast majority of kids learning with a stickbow or compound will eventually migrate to become crossbow shooters. No different than learning to shoot a gun with a BB gun, migrating to the .22 and .410, and eventually to the high powered rifle and larger shotguns. I guess at least some will become hunters.
1. Bending limbs
2. Riser that is held in one hand
3. A string that is drawn with the other hand
4. A sight widow/cut away in the riser to view the target
5. A rest or shelf to support the arrow
6. The draw cycle undertaken by only human effort at the time of the attempt on game
7. The requirement to overcome the peak weigh of the bow with only human effort at the time of the attempt on game. (limiting the user as to the power of the weapon they can pull back)
8. The requirement to hold the draw to aim with only human effort (for as long as your style dictates)
9. The requirement to release the string held back with only human effort at the correct time
10. The requirement to have a practiced form to achieve consistent accuracy
11. The requirement to follow through on the release to ensure you hit the target (still working on this)
12. The requirement to let down with only human effort (with all the related noise and motion of such an act) if the shot does not present itself
13. The requirement to draw again with only human effort and to get away with the noise and motion of a human powered effort in the close proximity to game and to do so fatigued from the first attempt.
14. The requirement that you make certain your upper and lower limbs are free and clear of anything they might strike upon release. (I've learned this the hard one more than once)
Tweed, the question was physical similarities, not the functions. Nice try.
That's funny Jake. When shown the difference you pick and choose what differences or answers you want
Pete, read the question real slow.
Here's a question for ya Jake.....How many times do you think a x-bow hunter has had to pass up a shot at a buck of a life time in 0° temp with wind chill -15° because their muscles were so cold they could't draw? OHHH, wait a minute, how silly of me, that answer would be 0 since that contraption was already at full draw. And yes, I AM A PROUD MEMBER OF THE WISCONSIN BOWHUNTERS ASSOCIATION. What groups do you support besides the X-bow orgs.
Pete let me try it this way. On your stick bow do you have a Peep sight, pin sight, split limbs, cables, pulleys, eccentrics, carbon riser, mechanical release, and stabilizers. The answer is no. And what reason would there be to have all these gadgets on a bow. To make it EASIER.
Konk, I strongly recommend an Iwom and be prepared. Nice deflection.
What's wrong with sights on a stick bow?
I use the arrow shaft and tip of my arrow when shooting my longbow. Both sights/sighting techniques.
Not a magnified scope though...
Joe
Tweed, you will not see one on a true stick bow. they shoot instinctive and some are snap shooters. An art unto itself. Takes endless hours to perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/gPYwGHZrmL8?start=754&end=773
Never had a gunpowder smell when shooting either a Compound bow or Longbow. A crossbow on the other hand...
JF, that is the string warming up on the rail when it is shot. It smells like gun powder. Yes, it is misleading probably on purpose.
So since shooting a crossbow already has a similar look, feel and sound to firing a gun, you can now add "smell" to that list.
4 of 4 applicable senses; sight, touch, sound, and smell (as taste does not apply). How does that old saying go? If it looks like a duck...
Joe
"Tweed, you will not see one on a true stick bow. they shoot instinctive and some are snap shooters. An art unto itself. Takes endless hours to perfect."
Jake, you must have missed my post. No sight present on my longbow, still use sighting techniques... I have done the same with a compound (fixed crawl and no sight or release aid) and it works quite well.
Joe
Shot my first archery deer (buck) with a compound in 2008.
2004 Martin Jaguar
- No sight: Fixed crawl aiming system using my arrow tip (essentially small gaps with a 20 yard point on distance)
- No release aid: Shot with fingers
- No rest: Shot off the shelf
- Single top wheel with the lower fusion cam
Point being, not all modern compound users incorporate sights, release aids, rests, etc.
Note: I killed my last buck with that same bow during the Fall of 2016 (before switching to a longbow).
Joe
I have a tap for a pin on my recurve. Plenty of long bow guys also use a pin. And then there's this guy.....
I'm sorry, I only talk hunters. To me target shooters are another breed.
Also, I will state I have no issues with sights on any bow (longbow/recurve, compound, xbow).
There is just no place for magnified sights in any archery season or crossbow season.
Joe
JF, that is because you have been told scopes on a crossbow are for magnification. The reason for different powered scopes is because looking in the scope you will see dots or plus signs space vertically apart. To make those dots spread apart or come together you need magnification. The more fps the bow shoots the more magnification you need to bring them closer together. The opposite is true of slower bows. The deer determines the distance the shot will be. My limit is 30 yards. Any true bowhunter must know his or her limits. We have are rookies just like you that will launch an arrow at much greater distances. They give the sport a bad name. So the answer is yes the scopes have magnification but not for the reasons that your thinking of.
"Konk, I strongly recommend an Iwom and be prepared. Nice deflection." Boy talk about deflection.
Why would a person need an Iwom" "To make it EASIER."
Your hypocritical nature shines through Jake. Why don't you just go troll somewhere else and leave Bowsite to Bowhunters!!!!!! Have a nice life....
Konk, blaming your equipment because you get cold is your problem not the equipment. I love hunting the late season and found out that it is not equipment failure that make you cold. Hey, just wear a T shirt then. Ya can't fix stupid.
Nope. Scopes have no place in the archery season or crossbow season. A line needs to be drawn and this would be a great starting point.
Jake, your statement below makes absolutely no sense. Magnified scopes are for magnification (as you described)... Fine to allow scopes on crossbows but with zero magnification; this is not a gun after all, right?
"JF, that is because you have been told scopes on a crossbow are for magnification. The reason for different powered scopes is because looking in the scope you will see dots or plus signs space vertically apart. To make those dots spread apart or come together you need magnification. The more fps the bow shoots the more magnification you need to bring them closer together. The opposite is true of slower bows. The deer determines the distance the shot will be."
Joe
JF then I see no reason that you should have multi pins or a sight dot slid pin for your compound. Your removing the ability to adjust sights on a scope so there is no reason for you to have that option. You seem to not be able to get it into your head that the scope on a crossbow is not at all used like it is on a gun. I am not going to explain it to you again.
++ From: Konk1 16-May-18
Here's a question for ya Jake.....How many times do you think a x-bow hunter has had to pass up a shot at a buck of a life time in 0° temp with wind chill -15° because their muscles were so cold they could't draw? ++
Why would anyone hunt in conditions they were incapable of performing in?
Kong, you answered your own question. Why would anyone hunt in conditions they were incapable of performing in. Get a heater body suit or and Iwom and you will perform in those temps just fine. I did hunt this last late season and yes it was cold but I was toasty warm. If I was using a compound my muscles would not have left me down. Believe me that their are crossbow hunters that will freeze up to.. Remember we have to uncock the bow to and cold muscles lead to a tear. By the way those stiff short limbs on my Excalibur are a bitch to cock and uncock in the cold. I have to keep warm for that reason alone.
I have hunted in cold weather with stick, compound and now crossbow and never could not draw back because of the cold. I can not speak for anyone else. The secret is don't sweat and how you dress.
Jake, there are certainly many non-magnified crossbow sights available that allow for adjustment, compensate for bolt drop, etc. I have included a link so you can further educate yourself.
http://www.badriveroutdoors.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=66&zenid=tlpep1cvmtose5g4i90prlh662
Magnified sights simply have no place in an archery or crossbow season. Eliminating magnified sights in any "bow" season is the main push that needs to be made in the beginnings of leveling the playing field between compounds and crossbows. This will help to put a ceiling on the role technological advances play in our hunts. Hopefully this issue comes to fruition over the next couple of years in WI and other states.
Joe
"CaptMike - Oldhunter, I guess you missed the number of people who voiced their displeasure at the Spring Hearings? "
You mean the number of people that were in the minority? No, I did not miss it. Is that all you got?
CaptMike4 - So, I was specific. I brought up the Spring Hearings. I did not say what the vote was, I simply brought it up as evidence of other besides Kaz and the WBH thinking there was a reason for structure change. Unless all those who voted in favor of change were WBH members,"
Being the fact that WBH sent out a mailer to its entire membership just prior to the spring hearing requesting a yes vote, I would say yes, the majority of yes votes were from WBH members. Also being the fact that it was voted down, Why i s Kaz still adamantly pursuing a change? That goes against the process of the spring hearings. Kaz recently stated that any changes would be through public input The vote on the spring hearings would be about as good as public input they could get.
If you want to mention the spring hearings, Why don't we discuss the 2016 and the 2017 spring hearings citizens resolutions?
JoeF, I never said that there was not an alternative. And if your so worried about crossbows having an advantage over compounds then why not take away the advantage compounds have over stick bows. Fair is fair right??
Jake you only came on this site to promote xguns, you say you were a life member and quit the WBA errrrr I mean WBH and continue to spew nonsense. We get it, you love the weapon. I almost hate saying this but you only type on this thread and add no value. Again nothing against you personally but you and others that support their use in the archery season are wrong and it isn't greed. They are guns. Please don't get the Cummings engine started for support either.
Actually Pete I have been promoting stick bows mostly while condemning compounds for their double standard. Unfortunately your the one with a single minded idea the crossbows are bad and compounds with all the gadgets are ok. I have no idea what you mean by the Cummings engine statement. Explain to me what nonsense you are referring to. I STILL am a member of the WBA errr WBH. Got to take care of that.
Next one to comment has the worst deer season ever...
I guess it is me with the worst season? Old asked, "Why i s Kaz still adamantly pursuing a change?" Old, those would be great questions for Kaz. I am not him, I am not his press secretary, nor am I his parent. As strongly as you feel about this, I suggest you get involved. Maybe get a seat on the Board?
I have had 4 requests to setup crossbows in May . Ages are 22, 26, 40 & 58 . Bowhunting will never be the same .
I have 55 years of the best Bowhunting . I feel for you young people out there .
Real bowhunting is in a serious decline, never to return to the original splendor,.......... NEVER!
Hey Dipshit Jake, in your case, you're right "you can't fix stupid". Nobody's opinion will be changed by this or any other x-gun thread, so why don't you just go to a x-gun forum and spew you bullshit there!
Missouri, I'm afraid that your right. OR, we are getting old and are resisting change. Not sure which it is but I don't like it. If I had my way we would be back to stick bows but then I would have to give up hunting. Tough choices for sure. Oh Konk, I did not notice you. You may go now.
I put the over/under on a 1000 posts Sunday at noon.
Jake has demonstrated demonstrated his ignorance and stupidity, then he reaffirms it, then he provides follow-up prof of it. He has done that many times on this thread alone.
I'll take the over!
Yup..Over for me too, Cant stop stupid.
I will end it the way Capt did. Stuttering, stuttering all the way. LOL Did you acquire that from your trophies hitting the high fence and worrying about them ruining your prized cape. LOL What an arrogant joke you are. Bye.
I know I haven't been the most pleasant on this topic. But did Jake just say bye? Wooooooohoooooo!! The sun just popped out...
Good bye Jake. Tell all on the x gun site you did your best.
Rut said
“DT, what substantial biological or scientific reasons were there for crossbows being forced into bow season?”
The same reasons that small game hunting was forced into the bow season. Or how about bear season forced into the bow season. Then we add those pesky Waterfowl hunters forced into the bow season. Then we have all the other user groups like the ATV and snowmobilers, hikers and bikers. The horse people all using public resources and not one gripe from the bow hunters.
But OMG the world comes to an end when a user group shows up and competes for “their” resource.
Rut you will have to address your question to Capt, Kaz, and Ron. I’m sure they had all the info sitting in front of them when they gave approval to the crossbow season.
Sorry, would have posted sooner but I was busy doing my "happy" dance. Jakie sounds like he is heading back to the dark side, not that he ever left. DT, nice to have you back. We were getting tired of Jake's same old same old. Now we can laugh at your ignorance again.
No, I just like to throw a jab now and then knowing full well the Bowsite idiot (insert Capt.) will reply.
"Again nothing against you personally but you and others that support their use in the archery season are wrong and it isn't greed."
It shouldn't matter who supports the use of crossbows during the archery season from what I hear crossbows will never be able to be used during the archery season they are used during the crossbow season which is separate from the archery season so you have nothing to worry about. Maybe Captmike can elaborate on the details and how great he is (assuming he's sober enough.)
If we get a thousand post, I believe I will win a free set of broadheads from Pat,,,,,,,
Drunkerrrrrr, too sloshed to reply. While you wait for my response, get yourself some Deer Regulations and get your mom to read it to you. Maybe with some purty pastels she can get through to you?
Not many real bowhunters left in Wisconsin, even fewer in Michigan. Two of the great historical bowhunting states have lost so many bowhunter numbers they have little voice, and will have even less. The bowhunting culture is dying and many will not be Happy until it is all gone.
I do not think there will be any changes.... politicians are testing the wind,,,,, I think the xbow will peak out, I mean really how many new hunters, are even coming in to the sport today,,,,, my opinion, not many, not enough to make a difference.............
If I am wrong, and there is an increase, well than a 1 buck rule will only be a matter of time. I also think the golden age of bowhunting, and deer hunting in Wis is over with...
Agree with above archery/bowhunting as it was meant to be has tanked for some time. Just do your thing with stick and string. Hey good title for a song :). The fight is over, politicians in majority who are under the so called "conservative" label are on board lock step for the continued liberalization of equipment use for archery/bowhunting etc. There seems to be no end in sight.
The politicians are not the problem. It is former bowhunters choosing to buy crossbows and giving up their hand drawn bows, AND, bowhunters bringing up their children as crossbow hunters rather than bowhunters. Nobody to blame but the hunters themselves. No turning back, the happy enablers have enabled the demise.
Disagree Missouri Breaks. Could go on and on as to why but just will leave at that. Buck jabber spot on your take. Prediction of yours unfortunately will probably be true.
The "love and need" of money - the core component in everything we do in life.
Buckjabber is directly on. The market creators and money sources are from the scenario he describes. They are sitting in the towers with wallet in pocket!
Yippee Skippy, The x bow guys are still here. The youth Expo went great. They didn't even have an xbow for them to shoot this year. The kids could care less about them. They want a challenge. Not a Duck shoot taught by that kind of person. You know, those thrill killers that have to compensate for their short cummings. lol.
It would have been interesting to have say 3 bows and 3 crossbows in the rack and see which attracted the most attention without steering them to any certain weapon.
so what's everyone PLANTING for bait this year?
Ten acre, two year old, Aspen clear cut salad bar.
Ten acre, two year old, Aspen clear cut salad bar.
^^^ beans, corn, clover, more beans. Lol
albino.... way to go....happy the youth expo went so great.
Albino, congrats! The youth expo is an awesome tool to help get kids interested in real bow hunting. I suppose DT has something there. Putting a crossbow out would sure help separate the lazy people from others.
They will become crossbow shooters soon enough.
MO, I disagree. Most of the crossbow users are lazy adults, not kids.
The lazy adults were once kids.
MO, it is not bowhunters who are switching to crossbows, it is gun hunters and other vermin who were always too lazy to become proficient with archery equipment.
Um, ok keep telling your self that.
Almost all of the former compound bowhunters I personally know have switched to scoped crossbows. I am sure that some, if not most of todays crossbow shooters, were former bowhunters,...... most likely compound bow shooters. Some of course are also gunhunters who now have moved into archery seasons with a scoped crossbow.
I believe the crossbow revolution is "mostly" the result of former bowhunters laying down their compound bows for the more advanced scoped crossbow. The scoped crossbow is simply the next logical technological step from the 85% let off compound bow with it's hi tech sights and trigger release.
Sorry Blabber, no trolls allowed.
MO, I guess we form our opinions based on our experiences. I have many vertical archery friends and many more whom I know through our Bowhunters SCI chapter. Virtually none of them has changed to a crossbow and most are vocally against crossbows. The winter league shooters at the archery shop I frequent have not changed in the numbers, and the league remains full, so from my perspective, I do not see archers turning to the crossbow.
"The scoped crossbow is simply the next logical technological step from the 85% let off compound bow with it's hi tech sights and trigger release."
Very true. Due to those hi tech sights, trigger releases, and all the other advanced technology hunters were putting on their compounds to make it easier for themselves, compound bows were starting to resemble crossbows quite a bit. About the only difference is that one is held in a horizontal position and has 15% more let-off.
<1>
it is gun hunters and other vermin who were always too lazy to become proficient with archery equipment.
Buckjabber, ask the Captain what he shot his turkey with this year. He should tell you how he lazy he was (vermin applies too) and used a gun instead of his compound. Perhaps he has not become proficient with his compound? I bet he just took the lazy way out. The hypocrisy continues...
Why dont you cross gunners just LEAVE......
Yeah, get out of hear bow gunners you can't post hear.
Do you realize how stupid you sound. LOL Sure your free to criticize but no, no, no not us. Your pushing me to come back. Hmmmmm.
Yappy, glad to see your wife lifted her skirt enough for you to utter a bit of nonsense. Shot it with a gun due to lack of time. It is not weapon specific but I don't have the time to explain that to you. Anyway, I read where you admit to not being a real hunter. Many of us already knew that but admitting your problem might get you on the road to recovery?
Do you suggest the same method for trying to help Yappy with his comprehension issues?
"Happy +1 You found Cinderellas shoe" Of course he did, he normally is hiding behind it.
Blabber you little troll, you staying under your bridge and out of the rain?
"Obviously there is no season change yet." That took a really smart person to figure that out. BACKSTABBER, you have an amazing intellect.
It blows my mind the support for xguns on a archery site. You simply can't fix stupid. I will send you guys more pink camo if you leave and go back to xbownation. Deal?
It blows my mind the lunacy and childishness of supposedly grown men on this site.
Weapon choice is simply a pimple on an elephants butt in the scheme of things. We are faced with far greater issues like diseases being the driver at reduced numbers in both deer and hunters.
Why shoot an animal if it can’t be consumed? One of the greatest arguments FOR hunting was the prime fat free meat acquired from a successful hunt. Managing numbers was secondary in social asseptance aspects of hunting.
With big predators on the rise on the WI. landscape they are doing a better job than hunters at controlling populations and doing it for free and no bitching from the unsatisfied.
Other than the monetary value hunters bring to local economies and paying the bill for management we hunters are not needed and social acceptance is slipping more and more every day.
Yep, one specific weapon will be the demise to all hunting as we once knew. NOT!
Many, (and probably most) on the Wisconsin and Michigan Forums are now happy closet crossbow users, supporters, or enablers. That is why there are so few posts against crossbow inclusion. According to moderator posts in other forums on this same site, pictures of crossbow kills are allowed to be posted. Therefore, I do not believe this is a vertical, hand drawn, bowhunting only site,.....If I understand correctly, seems like crossbow hunters are welcome here.
Lets just have gun season start in Sept. end in Jan. Wont make no difference. One buck here we come
Here's your new archer, sure looks like a compound bow setup to me? You can hardly tell that this is a x-gun setup can you? This pic is from a article about someone crossing over to archery hunting, what a joke.
And here is what your archer looks like. Can hardly tell he’s a hunter can you?
Good post, Live2. Funny that all DT can come up with is a photo shopped picture to try and support his position. His lame attempts are certainly pathetic. And, all so he can get his wife to kill an extra deer. The greed of some is amazing. Then, the greedy ones are supported by the ignorance of those like zitjabber.
I think those hunters that use those types of stands are lazy hunters, they should all go back to this type of tree stands
Yeah, some of the keys on the ol' Smith-Corona are sticking.
Hey, I have been trying to avoid x gun talk. They used to have xbows at the Youth Expo but as I said...No interest so they don't have them anymore or maybe it is the lazy d bag mentors that don't have time to teach our youth. Either way it is a win win for the whole state. Congrats on 1000 post that did nothing. So here is something that might get us to 2000. lol. A lady in Waunakee bitched & moaned so much about the Youth Expo because the NRA was one of the sponsors that the school district canceled the field trip for 200 students. These kids get to do everything outdoors from building Blue Bird houses to looking at the animals that are in cages even they did nothing wrong, climbing the fire tower, eat bugs, train dogs, go through a museum on logging history, making maple syrup, identifying trees & plants, see how the mountain lived, throw axes, pretty much anything outdoors with no phones or video games. Maybe we should send Jake to see her & talk some dense into her. And yes I know it says dense, must be auto correct.
Actually the photo is from one of Charles J. Alsheimers articles on baiting. So if it’s photoshopped he gets the credit.
Speaking of greed pot meet kettle when it comes to Capt. You are the one trying to take away opportunities for no reason other than your self imposed crisis.
Albino, my kids went to Waunakee and I helped Duffy teach his fishing corse several times and the day on/in the water with the kids. I’m in the process of writing a letter to the principal and the school district to voice my displeasure. It’s a shame these kids lost out on the event. It’s a shame Madison and money took over that community it was a great place at one time.
Albino, what a shame that the kids lost out on a great experience. As has been exhibited on these pages by dense and DT, some people care less how their greedy, personal wants and views impact others. They are "me" people and to hell with anyone else. I am very proud that SCI has been such a significant factor in resurrecting and keeping the Youth Expo going. Thanks Albino for your help with it!
Can you imagine how many scoped crossbows were sold by BassPro/Cabelas since this thread started on April 9, 2018? Has anyone been to their archery area lately?
Myself, I don't even go into the Archery shops at the big stores anymore, nothing there for me. I despise even looking at those stupid contraptions hanging all over. I have to get most of my things on-line. I should open a shop in E.C. for myself and other Archers.
Capt. You need to quit abusing your Meds. You are the one “trying” to restrict opportunities.
CaptMike do you feel like your talking to yourself when trying to talk sense with these wanna be archers. What I like are the guys who own land that feel they are entitled to doe tags.
Was talking to a 11 year old boy yesterday in the archery range shooting his compound. What a great kid he was. Talked for awhile and I asked him if he ever shot a crossbow? He literally laughed and said yeah, my uncles.. I laughed and asked what was so funny? He said idk you called it a crossbow! Aren't they called crossguns? What would a 11 year old know?
Sorry Buck, but if your talking about me. I’m a full blooded archer and have been since 1963. I don’t use or shoot a crossbow.
Don’t you get tired of riding the coat tails of others?
DT Im not talking to you because its a waste of time. I can't wait till they do away with the CC and just have a survey when you buy a license. This way you guys can't endorse some of theses stupid changes at the spring hearings.....
I agree Buck, the altering the crossbow season was a stupid question.
I indorse what our county does. Sorry if it doesn’t match your agenda.
That was a agreement made when they let the gun in the bow season. Your like a politician........ what ever is good for you.
Drop is it more difficult to navigate the horizontal limbs thru branches and is there a worry that a errant branch may hit your trigger launching the bolt? Do you keep lens covers on your scope until comfortable or while walking in the woods?
Buck, I liken it more like talking to a rock. Or a liberal. Both the same mentality. Luckily the stupid does not go far, it is limited to a few ignorant folks here. Noc and Pasq, you can try to make sense to these couple of goofs until you are blue in the face. Rocks do not absorb much.
Pasq, I wouldn’t know. I hunt with a Bowtech Destroyer 350. Gun hunt with a Layman Great Plains Sidelock with a patched .495 round ball.
DT, maybe your wife can answer for you??
Drop I assume you hunt with your spouse?
Does she/you find it more difficult to navigate the horizontal limbs thru branches and is there a worry that an errant branch may hit you/her trigger launching the bolt? Does you/she keep lens covers on your/her scope until comfortable or while walking in the woods?
Crabpicker, I'll put it on my "to do" list.
She doesn’t put a bolt on the bow till she is on stand. Yes it can be a pain getting through the woods. But she only hunts our land which is fairly open till she gets to her stand and it thickens up there.
I don’t even know if her crossbow has lens covers. I shot 3 bolts through it and never paid attention. She knows her equipment wether the crossbow or her PSE and doesn’t need me for adjustments. I’m just her pack mule.
DT, get her a Ravin. It is only 6 inches wide. I think that is what my Hoyt is with the quiver on. Glad you wrote a letter. It is good to see the troops sticking together. ; ) It is hard to believe that Dane County actually lets bowhunters hunt in the County parks. I did stop at Cabelas on the way back from the expo & they did have a number of xbows, compound bows, recurves & longbows. The good thing there was that after a so called airbow sat on the shelf for 2 years and none were sold they discontinued carrying them. The bad news is that Corporate HQ backed out of the Deer & Turkey Expo & canceled appearances at most if not all shows. They also seem to be caving to pressure. Apparently they also forget who pays their bills. I did mention that they are not the only game in town. To my surprise Gander Outdoors is better than I thought they would be. I have been to The DeForest & Janesville stores. Better than the mountain was any way.
Probably typing from behind the safety of his wives Mother's day skirt?
Captain, you are infatuated with my wife and skirts for some odd reason. I told you before Captain, not my wife's skirt, it is your wife's skirt. Kinda putrid there, so I get out fast ;).
Are you getting over the guilt of stabbing all those who supported you in the back by voting pro xbow? You've never told us what they all felt by your "surprise" gift to them all for your own personal gain.
Crappy you little weasel. Just poke your head out of the hole? Lol! You are still a spineless, self-admitted non hunter.
I will not attack anyone personally, just be happy with the huge, I mean huge, revolution by the crossbow shooters. Thank you all the enablers, be happy.
^ If captmike can break away from calling people names he could explain to you that since the crossbow season is separate from the archery season, you, and every man, woman, and child, has nothing to worry about, the separate part makes it all ok. You should thank captmike for making it happen.
Snowflakerrrrrr, are they still names if they are true?
CaptMike your a better man than me........ I would not even give these wanna be archers the time of day.
Buck, they are a small handful of guys who have been butt hurt by my blunt honesty. Internet sissy's, lazy and overly emotional people. At least "Happy & Ignorant" admits he is not a real hunter. Kinda makes one wonder why they frequent a hunting site.
The problem is not Captainmike or the the DNR. The problem is every hunter who buys, enables and endorses crossbows for all. Once again, this is hunter driven, nobody else to blame. There is no big money influence, it all has to come from hunters opening their wallets and enablers their camps to the happy crossbow crowd.
Crappy you little weasel. Just poke your head out of the hole? Lol! You are still a spineless, self-admitted non hunter.
Never said I was a non-hunter Captain. I said I shoot a compound so I am not really a bowhunter. We both have that in common seeing you shoot a compound too. We are not in Missouri's league and he'll tell you over and over how great he is and how he's a better person in life because he shoots trad. Have I mentioned that he does not like disabled people who don't shoot trad? You though, call gun hunters vermin and lazy and then admit to taking the vermin-lazy way out by shooting your turkey with a gun. That is so f'ing funny!!!!! When does your hypocrisy end? Next thing we know, you'll vote for full inclusion of xbows. You sort of did already. I suppose that will come down to what the NRA and Xbow Federation offer you huh ;). Speaking of spineless...
The problem is every hunter who buys, enables and endorses crossbows for all.
That would include Kaz and who admits 40% of his revenue is on xbows. Another hypocrite but not quite in the Captain's league. He's in a league of his own.
Hey Captain, how are those tasty Lakers biting?
How about we let this thread die and drop off the page? Nothing productive is coming from it.
Crappy, you've learned well living as a liberal. Continue to spew BS and a little sticks. So far you've stuck a good pile on hunterrrr and the Canadian blabber. Of course from the stench that follows you, a bit must have stuck in your mouth also?
DT, the good continues as the Board considers reducing the crossbow season. No thanks to weasels like crappy who do nothing but post from the safety of the wives skirt. But yet, Crappy, a self admitted non-hunter continues to post on this site. Can you say "Troll?"
Serious question........ can I use this? Its a "cousin" that's "been around a long time" as well.
Scabpicker, as a Canadian resident, who is the "Scotty" you refer to?
"DT, the good continues as the Board considers reducing the crossbow season."
Ooooooh, that sounds exciting. Please let us know just as soon as the crossbow season is reduced, and also keep us informed about how great you think you are, and please don't stop the name calling, it's super funny.
ATA talking-liberalized-crossbow-laws-archery-industry/
Cryerrrrrrr, I knew you were easily amused. I'd send you a "Happy" doll but worried you might mess it. Stay tuned, change is in the wind (not Crappy's Happy breath).
MF, ATA is a money making, money promoting organization. They will promote whatever brings money to their pockets. They have people like Happster and Dumberrrrr as customers. They capitalize on simple people's ignorance.
Too bad no one has an opinion on this subject. So here is mine. If it is redundant due to the fact that I didn't read but a few of the preceding comments just ignore mine.
Crossbow use in WI is a legal, and personal choice. At age 66 I choice not to use one. If crossbows were essentially the same as a modern compound bow, and therefore did not offer a significant advantage over a bow, able-bodied people would not be dropping $2000 and beyond to buy one.
"I'd send you a "Happy" doll but worried you might mess it."
I imagine you get more use out of your Happy doll than I would so you might as well hang on to it. ;-)
"Stay tuned, change is in the wind"
Oooooooh, more exciting news. I wonder if the crossbow season will be reduced to just a couple weeks? Any idea since it sounds as if you're steering this ship of change?
Longbows, recurve bows, compound bows, etc are all the same in that they have a riser/grip, limbs, and a string. The archer holds the grip with one hand and pulls the string back, which stores energy in the limbs. Release the string, energy is transferred to the arrow.. The only real advantage a compound offers is to store more energy and shoot the arrow harder. All the do-dads hung on and used with various compounds can and sometimes are used on recurves. Yes, a compound reduces holding weight -- which would be similar to shooting a lightweight recurve. The arrow speed / energy stored is the difference. Still need to have mastered the fundamentals of archery to be consistently accurate with either one. As former Olympic coach Len Cardinale wrote in Bowhunter magazine back in the late 70s, 'gadgets are no replacement for good form.' Meaning, you can use all the junk you want, but in archery, if you don't have good form, it just doesn't work.
Just wanted to add my two cents after reading all the obfuscation coming from crossbow people wanting to justify using them in the archery season by saying they're just like shooting a compound. That's just not true.
Very well said bowguy. But most of the crossbow lovers will stick their fingers in their ears and yell la, la, la, la... Hmm, that's also a favorite tactic of liberals, perhaps all crossbow lovers are liberals.
Rut, you are on to something there. Yappy, a self-professed non-hunter and liberal regularly spews his lies on these pages, along with his disdain for hunters and his love for crossbows.
Join Comptons,..................... the one true major National bowhunting organization left. Great culture, real bows and excellent bowhunting values promoted.
Yes,..... there are some flaming liberals on here that are not really Happy without promoting and enabling crossbows.
I don't think it was "liberals' that promoted and passed legislation to get the crossbow allowed here in Wisconsin. Think about it.
Compton is a good group and will only get better if the rank and file reach out and extend the hand of friendship and communication to those within and those unaware, agreed Missouribreaks?
What party is the NRA ??? Thats who helped push the crossguns
Yes, I was not a fan of the NRA getting involved but I am guessing since the xbow is almost a gun they thought they should push them instead of using that money to teach responsibility to gun owners that don't lock up their weapons or something less important than xbows. Certainly no state org. could go against them & think they could come out ahead. Bully for them.
Albino, very difficult to fight money as it relates to politics. The NRA response to basically my same question as yours was that they felt they have morphed from a purely First Amendment support group to one which includes general hunter support group. Their WI state lobbyist from that time period was eventually replaced, although I do not know for what reasons.
This past weekend I stopped at a local gun shop that has phased out their archery equipment over the past 3 years; they used to be ~50-50% archery equipment and guns/ammunition, etc. Now they only carry guns, ammunition, gun accessories, and ravin crossguns and blots.
The grouping of similar weapons made me smile. Not a true bow in sight :)
Joe
Merchants have to cater to where the money and sales are, that would not be bowhunting in Wisconsin or Michigan. In both states, the number of bowhunters is declining rapidly and significantly as are sales of bows and arrows. On the other hand, crossbow shooters are increasing, as are crossbow sales in states where they are legal for all archery season hunters.
Ask Kaz, he voted in favor of a crossbow season and increased sales in his shop 40+ %. Now that non-bowhunters have had a taste of hunting the rut if he now votes to take the rut away from crossbow hunters he can look at an increase in bow sales as I’m sure some of those guys would buy a bow to continue hunting the rut. More money in his pocket.
He sold the bowhunter out for personal gain and now doing the same to the crossbow hunter. I said it before he should recuse himself from any and all decisions related to bow hunting being in the business and can profit from his decisions.
Maybe he simply votes his pocketbook.
"Now that non-bowhunters have had a taste of hunting the rut if he now votes to take the rut away from crossbow hunters he can look at an increase in bow sales as I’m sure some of those guys would buy a bow to continue hunting the rut."
There definitely are guys out there that had no idea how easy bucks were to kill during the rut until taking part themselves, and they now realize how easy compound shooters have had it and why so many nice bucks never make it to November to give gun hunters a chance. I could see those guys picking up an easy to dial in and easy to shoot compound if need be to continue hunting during the easy time of the year if the crossbow season is changed to that degree.
"Ask Kaz, he voted in favor of a crossbow season and increased sales in his shop 40+ %. Now that non-bowhunters have had a taste of hunting the rut if he now votes to take the rut away from crossbow hunters he can look at an increase in bow sales as I’m sure some of those guys would buy a bow to continue hunting the rut." DT, are you an IRS investigator? How else would you know how much a business might have increased sales by? Your ignorance overflows. When you make one ridiculous, unfounded statement like that, you marginalize yourself in all aspects. Oh wait, you did that when you used your wife as a reason to defend crossbow use. LOL!
Wives, kids, sore shoulders and grandpa are all the excuses for that beautiful new crossbow hanging in the den. Guys are funny! Man up, ......you wanted to use it yourself.
If those on here proclaiming compounds are so easy to master. You must be elite archers. Why aren't you out there winning competitions and making your living shooting a bow? After all, there is nothing to it.
DT, the good continues as the Board considers reducing the crossbow season. No thanks to weasels like crappy who do nothing but post from the safety of the wives skirt
I absolutely love the name calling too. It just shows how little the Captain has to offer. I wonder if his daughters taught him that when someone disagrees with you, just call them names. I sure hope he did not teach them that tact.
Not only does the Captain never answer questions about stabbing his people in the back for personal gain, he calls gun hunters lazy and vermin and then uses one to kill a turkey because he's lazy. He sure is infatuated with skirts too. And get this, he's not a real bowhunter either, like Missouri is, because he shoots a compound. He and I are alike there but I admit to it while he does not. But then again, he's a lazy hunter and does admit to that though. Seeing how he voted in favor of xbows and is a huge fan of his good friend Kaz being a hypocrite, he probably owns an xbow. I'm guessing Kaz set him up well. Heck, maybe the Xbow Federation and NRA gave all those people who caved and voted pro-xbow a nice setup, from Kaz's shot where he could profit too?
We can't let this thread ever die. The Captain has so much more name calling to do. It is worth a daily laugh. People need to always understand how he caved on his people and voted in favor of xbows for personal gain and tried to hide that. NDAs are beautiful hey Captain. Let me know when I can come over for some more skirt activity ;).
Sorry Capt. But the 40% were from his own words when he gave testimony. You must have been counting your money under the table when he was speaking at the time and missed it. LOL
The only thing you add are insults and name calling. Hillary has more credibility than you do.
"The Captain has so much more name calling to do. It is worth a daily laugh. People need to always understand how he caved on his people and voted"
That assumes he had people which I would disagree with. Riding on the coattails of others that "have people" does not count.
No one answered my question. Must be too busy counting your winnings. Ihave a feeling though that none of you "experts" are going to be putting Levi Morgan out of work.
Ah Rut, you sucked me back in. I think that it is not so much that anyone has compounds master in that they are comparing them to traditional bows. And everything that is different from a traditional to a compound is to make it EASIER. Take the draw. The traditional takes years to master the correct anchor and style be it snap shooting or conventional hold shooting. Some never master it. The hold on a traditional is max. weight at full draw and compound are what 15%. The mastering of a finger release compared to a mechanical release. Guess which one is harder to master. The sights on a hunting traditional is mostly instinctive. (by the way I only compare hunting bows). The sights on a compound are costly little buggers all jazzed up with lighted pins and peep sights on the string. Guess which one is EASIER. The compound was born because it was EASIER than traditional and now you hypocrites are crying because crossbows are EASIER than compounds. Traditional is the true sense of Archery and we all know it but avoid saying it. Now go back and stroke your oversized ego's some more.
Sappy, you offer reach-arounds with that drool emanating from you? Come over, you are welcome anytime you'd like. I am easy to find.
Jake's last post is 100% accurate, not even debatable in any fashion.
Compounds are still a bow that is drawn and released. When you do that with the x-gun, I'm all in.
Jake, you make a good point for a trad only season.
Traditional Archery: 2nd or 3rd Saturday in September - October 1st - Bare recurves, longbows and selfbows - no sights or draw aides (pins, clickers, etc), shoot off the shelf, finger release
Archery: October 1 - December 31 - Includes compounds and all trad bows; arrow rests, release aids and sights acceptable during this season
Xbow: October 1 through 9-day gun season
Perfect. Preserving some tradition while acknowledging the differences in modern technological advancements.
Joe
Your right live2hunt they are drawn and released and all in a much EASIER fashion than traditional bows. ALL done to make it EASIER. EASIER and you know it. TRADITIONAL BOWS are the true archers here and you know it. So quit being a greedy little hypocrite and get off your soapbox with crossbows because YOU ain't all that much either. Your just a greedy little cry baby that had it EASY for to many years and now it is being done to you with crossbows. And yes I was guilty of it to but with one big difference. I acknowledge the skills it takes to master a traditional bow and live with it. Crossbows are the next step and I don't like it but I will live with it. I still want to get out there and hunt.
This nonsense about shooting 100 yards with non powder 'primitive weapons' has got to stop. Next rifle ads, etc. Glass optic sights encourages this behavior. Lethal hazards exist especially before leaf drop. And this is usually during the rut sometime in WI. Do you ALL want to wear blaze orange or pink because of these new 'primitive weapon' seasons? Scoped crossbows and the possible future inclusion of Airbows may cause that to happen. Many gun hunters could say that they don't shoot over 50 yards too, but they still make you wear orange because of the weapons capabilities and the shooting habits of others. The DNR was overdue for a full evaluation of crossbows for many reasons, and it's not just about success ratio differentiation. JMHO
I agree Myke, the crossbow has advance to far. It needs restrictions on fps. And don't tell me that compounds do not take 100 yard shots. Ask any person hunting out west if this has happen on a regular basic. Advancements is killing our sport. Something needs to be done. Just like they have minimums they should have maximums.
So far, the winner is.....no one! Bumping this awesome thread to the top, even though it wasn't needed. I have so much to say, but it falls on deaf hypocritical ears. Stop the insanity. It's like arguing about politics or religion. We are determined to be so right, when we might all be wrong? The most important thing when arguing a point, is knowing if facts are the priority or if opinion takes precedence. I was told this a long time ago about politics. The far left and the far right are what we think of when we think of a Republican or a Democrat. It's simply not the case.....they are the loudest. So while about 6 of you carry on, there's hundreds who watch what's going on, have their own opinion, possibly side with you, but also have the wherewithal to know you're not changing anyone's opinion, so they say nothing. Instead of trying to argue your point, how about you avoid the insanity? I'm speaking from experience. I know quickly, when a few people cannot understand they look very silly. I just avoid them like the plague. I refuse to converse with people who cannot get past emotional feelings, and look at facts. Any good conversation takes good reasoning skills. It only turns into name calling arguments when they lack them.
Jake, rifles are easier also, yet they are not permitted to be used during the archery season. You seem to be easily confused, but THAT is what this is about.
Capt, neither is a compound a traditional bow but here we are. Actually compounds opened the door to this mess by pretending to be a primitive weapon and it is not. Why do you think that the success rate for a compound is so much higher than traditional bows. We are now seeing an extension of that with the crossbow.
I think Daryl from the Walking Dead is to blame for this whole mess....
Crossbows are not permitted to be used during the archery season either, so there really is no worry here. Crossbows are used during the crossbow season, which is separate from the archery season, so I hear it's all good. From the numbers, it appears that last fall's crossbow season had some success and a good turn-out, great to see people out hunting and enjoying nature.
Jake, the rifle season is not under scrutiny. You are still confused.
Crossbow season had great success. Bowhunting is in a rapid free fall and crossbow hunting is exploding. Look at the retail stores, crossbows are the latest and greatest. Getting faster, with better optics, and less weight and noise. Just like compounds, technology is taking them to new levels and efficiencies. Many will continue to lay down their compound for a new crossbow, and of course crossbows are already the choice for the vast majority of new archery hunters. What a revolution!
Yup Missouri the sport is evolving just like the compound revolution so is the crossbow revolution. It is just human nature to go for the best tool in the box. I wish that crossbows would be limited to recurve crossbows instead of compound ones, because that would put the end to speed. Speed is the enemy of all and what most will look for sadly.
Agree, seems like posts on speed dominate stickbow, compound and crossbow discussions. Hunters are obsessed with speed and success.
It is a sad thing to witness. There has to be some restriction on max. just like there is on min.
MF, you nailed it. There is no end to advancement unless we have it restricted. We are, are worst enemy on this.
Congrats to Jake for the 1,100th comment.
Sad hunters need so much regulation. If they really cared for the resource, and were not so lazy and horn porn driven, we could regulate ourselves. Will never happen, so please bring on shorter seasons, point creep and whatever else is necessary to protect the delicate multiple species we are willing to decimate with modern day technology.
Missouri it is human nature. Everyone wants the biggest and bestest toy on the market. Next best thing to buying a buck. Sad.
The different seasons were structured to allow outdoors people a maximum amount of participation, while keeping harmony between the various weapons and the species. Greed will eventually force a one deer season or possibly a draw system, such as occurs in many other states.
Fortunately Wisconsin is not like other states in that crossbows were NOT fully included in the archery season, crossbows have their own season in wisconsin, completely separate from the archery season. The great part of that is the crossbow deer harvest can be tracked separately, and if the numbers show the crossbow harvest is taking too many deer (I would assume in the DNR's view) just the crossbow season can be shortened while not bothering the separate archery season. Other states be damned, Wisconsin has it covered. ;-)
Hunter you put a lot of stock into the crossbow being track separately from the archery season. Just imagine the shock if traditional and compounds would have been kept separated knowing full well that the harvest ballooned after compounds were introduced into the traditional bow season. Traditional harvest numbers are but a small fraction of today's archery kill numbers but you completely ignore that because of your greed and still go on posing as a true bowyer. Hypocrite much!!
Dumberrrr is slowly getting smarter. Jake, you keep imagining what might have been, we are talking about what is.
To be fair it should be tracked separately. Compounds were developed to make everything the traditional bow does EASIER and definitely are not primitive at all. And it gets worse, Capt is your spokesman. LOL
Jake, senility is clouding your ability to comprehend. But, being the nice guy I am, let me help. Refer back to the original post, (you know, the one that defines what the topic is about) and read, then re-read it. Do this as many times as necessary until you comprehend that the thread is about the Spring Hearings and a vote on the crossbow issue. No mention about compound bows, no Spring Hearing question about compound bows. Spokespeople need to be educated. You would not make a good spokesperson.
Being a nice guy. LOL, LOL, LOL. Yes, go back to talking about one guy's wife some more. LOL
You mean the guy who uses his wife to get an extra deer a year with a CROSSBOW? That guy?? Once again, your comprehension fails you.
Funny that you would mention CROSSBOWS. Check the title of the thread. This has nothing to do with the conversation. Your an idiot. A self absorbed idiot but none the less idiot. Go back to your high fence hunts. I forgot, if you have the time.
Jake said, "Funny that you would mention CROSSBOWS. Check the title of the thread. This has nothing to do with the conversation. Your an idiot. A self absorbed idiot but none the less idiot. Go back to your high fence hunts. I forgot, if you have the time."
Jake, I took your advice and checked the title of this thread. Here it is, just for you, "Cross Bow Vote." Now, please tell us who is an idiot. Funny you mention my hunts as you know nothing about me. Are you jealous I go to Africa every year? Are you jealous I hunt Canada, western USA and a bit in Europe? Are you jealous I hunt my own land? And unlike you, all of that without a single crossbow. You are a tool, I have time to tell you that.
What one's wife shoots has nothing to do with the crossbow vote. Sure everyone is jealous of you. Idiot. LOL
Sorry dick, er I mean Capt. Despite hundreds of pictures and video the right deer never came along last fall and no tags were punched. You see we don’t “need” to kill for self or your gratification.
I’m sorry you have no one in your pitiful life that you care about.
Don't be sorry, I love my vertical bow.
"What one's wife shoots has nothing to do with the crossbow vote. Sure everyone is jealous of you. Idiot. LOL"
^ Better than the Sunday morning funny pages.
You should like your vertical bow Capt. Nothing like a purist's stick bow with all the technology can offer to cover your weaknesses. Well, of course if you don't have the time just take your rifle. You know the kill is everything right?
Jakey, I own you. Now I've got you responding on command. Ignorant, illogical responses, but responses nonetheless. Even though dumberrr recognizes your comment as stupid, at least you and he have something in common besides a lazy love for crossbows.
LOL, your responding to me. I guess I own you. Puke!!
Oh snap, so quick witted! Lol!
I'm sure you say that to everyone, seriously EVERYONE. LOL
"Even though dumberrr recognizes your comment as stupid, at least you and he have something in common besides a lazy love for crossbows."
I recognized his comment as funny, the fact that you'd think anyone is jealous of you is laughable. I don't have a love for crossbows either, I just choose to not bash other hunters for their choice in weapon use as long as it's legal. Come to think of it though, aren't you the main reasons we now have this crossbow season (according to you)? Did you forget that you were very proud of yourself for making it happen all by yourself (also according to you) ? Talk about dumb, if you really hate the crossbow season you should hate yourself, of course maybe that is a daily struggle you face, and is reflected in your hate-filled posts. Eh, I'd say have another drink and try to forget about it for a spell. ;-)
Patheticrrrr, nothing but an internet warrior who claims to not love crossbows but readily accepts them. I think Patheticrrr is very appropriate. Now go lay by your bowl.
Many closet crossbow users, promoters, and enablers. That pretty much encompasses most on this forum. Crossbows are the new normal, following the history and precedent set by the compound bow enthusiasts.
Man it is just SCARY. We should not allow Missouri post just after Capt. It is like reading a knowledgeable, logical MAN right after a childish rant is posted. Of course Capt is to arrogant and self absorbed to pick up on this. No wonder archery is in disarray according Capt the man child. Go ahead Capt lets hear some more condescending rants. It is what little you have brought here anyway.
Condescending? Sorry snowflake, I'll cool it off for you as I'd hate to see you melt. As a crossbow user, that was aimed at you, although you are too dense to realize that. Jake, I was going to school you once more. After a bit of thought, I decided not to. Better to just allow you to continue exposing yourself as a shallow, unthinking person whose mouth runs without being attached to any brain. Please continue and I'll monitor for the laughs.
I can make you answer any time I want. I own you. LOL See how easy it is to be you. A nothing sandwich. LOL
Nothing sandwiches? You can't be THAT hungry using that crossgun during an archery season? Does it's scope come with cataract adjustments?
Took the time to read some of your posts Capt. This explains it all; "As a world traveler. It’s becoming a lot more hostile in other countries thanks to The.Bozo in office!" Why inject politics on a thread like this. Your a bleeding heart liberal while I am just a deplorable. Got it! Go Trump!! OH, and I apologize to you in that I had no idea that you had a mental disorder.
Capt dont waste your time with these wanna be archers.
Yes BM, they are wannabe's. Jake would love to be an archery hunter but he is just not capable. Blowblabber would like to be anything useful but again, not capable. I guess I am getting good at this. Now I can make Jake react without even being here. I know, I should have pity on these low intelligence dolts but the fact is they are fun. They sure do a heck of a good dance called the circlejerk.
Lol! Sounds like a theme for the next crossbow convention. Oops, I forgot. They don't do things like that, they are too busy trolling archery sites.
Oh those silly compound hunters. With all the advancements technology could put into them and they think that their somehow special. Nothing primitive about them at all. Just a bunch of wheels and pulley and such to make it EASIER for them. Poor snowflakes
Well this is just plain dumb.
https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/2018DeerExtendedArchery.pdf
Joe
Joe why is the extended season dumb, its been going on in the listed units for a lot of years, nothing new,,,,, it was taken out by mistake, with a bill from Klefish, but brought back in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I personally enjoy the late Jan hunt,,,,,,
I plan to remain a bowhunter with my osage selfbow. Modern, scoped crossbows are gaining shelf space at every outlet. This because more and more are putting down their bows and bowhunting to purchase scoped crossbows and become crossbow hunters. This shift away from bowhunting will continue.
Many on this forum are closet users and enablers. They already have crossbows in their families, under the cover a scoped crossbow is best for the wife, children and grandpa. They will eventually come out of the closet.
Bowhunting in Wisconsin will continue to decline,..... while scoped crossbow use for hunting will increase.
You sure worry about Wisconsin
Reigning in Crossbows
Arrowtrade has long seen the potential crossbows had to introduce non-archers to bowhunting and enable older bowhunters to keep in the field. Now, after attending the April ATA Board of Directors meeting, I will admit some reservations.
At that meeting, some board members were concerned that powerful new crossbows were far outpacing vertical bows in performance and would be difficult to consider as primitive weapons entitled to long seasons. The surprising data from the 2017 Wisconsin hunting season, during which crossbow hunters tagged more deer than vertical bow hunters for the first time in history, also drew a lot of attention from the board. Crossbows were just legalized for all Wisconsin deer hunters in 2014 and that is pretty dramatic evidence that modern, high-performance crossbows are easy to use and highly effective.
Comments from retailers and a distributor on the board also indicated anecdotal evidence that crossbows are not serving as a gateway to other forms of archery. Since little practice is needed to stay proficient with them, that can hurt sales of arrows, releases, sights, and many other accessories that retailers depend on to stay profitable.
The board voted 15-2 to study whether the ATA position statement on crossbows, adopted back in 2008, should now be revised. The existing statement reads, in part, "The ATA believes that crossbows are viable shooting and hunting equipment that provide opportunity for a segment of America's hunters and recreational shooters...The ATA leaves the seasons and regulation governing the use of crossbows for hunting to each state wildlife agency. ATA believes that when populations of wildlife, like deer, are overabundant, state agencies should make use of every type of hunting equipment to help control and manage those populations." A study group consisting of staff and board members has formed, has met once and is in the process of gathering data, Arrowtrade was told by the ATA early in June.
In the meantime, I would suggest major crossbow manufacturers declare a halt to the speed race. Speeds in excess of 400 fps and advertisements claiming the accuracy potential at 100 yards and beyond are only going to draw more negative attention from game departments. Nobody in the bowhunting industry will benefit if archery seasons are reduced as a result of the perception that crossbows are morphing into crossguns.
Major sports typically set equipment limitations, from the characteristics of golf balls to the types of engines used in NASCAR. The eight major manufacturers that sponsor the North American Crossbow Federation could consider a 400 fps limit: nothing to be advertised or warranted beyond that. Existing models that exceed that could be packaged with heavier arrows to fit within the new guidelines. With the speed limit in place, manufacturers could still innovate in ways to improve accuracy, comfort, reliability, and ease of use.
Setting these voluntary limits on crossbows would help them be viewed by the public and state game agencies as equipment that is not radically different in performance from a compound bow
-Arrowtrade, July 2018
From: Missouribreaks
