BGSS kickoff - Whatcha think?
Colorado
So I was in attendance at the commission meeting in Junction last Firday, where BGSS was kicked off. Commissioner Bray indicated he would support an archery season structure west of I-25 that started with a hard date of September 1st, and ended Sept 30th. Wyoming has the same dates, I personally really like it.
Friday night I attended the CBA board meeting, and the board was in favor.
What do you think of the proposal? Keep in mind, nothing is on paper yet, and this was an idea thrown out that needs support to move forward.
With BGSS starting, it would be great to increase our membership, you can join online at www.coloradobowhunting.org
I like it for elk but I bet many like the late August for velvet mule deer. But l could live with this. What about Pronghorn? still 8/15?
Steve, first - thanks for representing the CBA at this meeting. Win win in my onion. Pronghorn starts and ends the same dates every year, no reason Elk should not as well. Mule deer are still in velvet (most of the time) the first few days of Sept. Now we just need archery bear to fall in line.
I've long been an advocate for a hard date start and end...and have always been overridden. I'm surprised the CBA would be in favor. The main argument against is fewer weekend days most years, which seems to be important to many bowhunters.
Here is the link to the discussion, BGSS starts about 20 minutes in. As you can see, Pronghorn seasons are being proposed for discussion. More data, and meetings to come.
About 31 minutes in are Commissioner Bray comments. My comments are about 39 minutes in.
In terms of the ML overlap issue, keep in mind CPW staff has previously advised the family of the hunter killed on the Grand Mesa that this discussion is appropriate for BGSS, so will be on the agenda for BGSS.
One comment about bear, CPW would like to increase harvest rates rather than issues more tags. The director discussed a desire to have us survey our members about bears. Look for that in the future. One way to reduce conflict with rifle bear hunters in September is to harvest more bears leading to a reduction in tags down the road.
Steve, I would rather it started earlier - at least for deer!
There are already rifle buck hunts starting September 1 in a number of units. Rifle bear starts September 2.
Can we get the rifle hunters out if we move the start of archery to the first? Or any other date for that matter?
Please do something about starting moose hunts the same day for muzzle loader and archery! Since moose tags are so limited, could we not restructure to a September 1 start for archery, September 15 for muzzle loader, and October 1 for rifle with the ability to hunt through with the lesser weapon to the end? Hell, leave the season open till the end of November or even December. Why are the seasons so short and overlapping?
By the way, with respect to bear, around where I live it seems pretty common to see guys with both a rifle and a bow thru archery season -and no orange. Funny how well they do on elk...
I’ve probably had 30 tags for bear in Colorado and have yet to draw back an arrow on one. Can they do something to help bowhunters? Give us a week or two without guns? Statewide tags? Something??!?
Tavis - If you listen to my testimony, I specifically state deer hunters would prefer an earlier start.
Moose season timing and length is on the table for discussion. My moose hunt opened on the ML opener, The B&C bull I saw the day before the opener was gone opening morning, never saw him again.
There was banter about increasing the length of archery bear season, we will see what makes it to paper.
Topic list finalization will occur over the next couple months.
The one negative to it is that many years we would get 4 weekends instead of 5 to hunt.
I'm good with a hard date for elk and deer but deer should be earlier.
I vote in favor of September 1-30 if anyone's counting.
As I stated in my testimony, we have 48,000 elk hunters, and 11,000 deer hunters. Deer hunters hunters being east and west of I-25, totally limited by quota.
There were other thoughts on elk, I need to schedule a meeting so those who want to come out can throw ideas on the wall and see what sticks.
At the same time, the CBA also has an archery turkey season proposal in the hands of the 4 CPW regional managers seeking sponsorship to get an issue paper before the commission.
If you like whats going on at the CBA, join or renew.
"Please do something about starting moose hunts the same day for muzzle loader and archery! Since moose tags are so limited, could we not restructure to a September 1 start for archery, September 15 for muzzle loader, and October 1 for rifle with the ability to hunt through with the lesser weapon to the end? Hell, leave the season open till the end of November or even December. Why are the seasons so short and overlapping? "
Thanks Tavis... This can't be repeated enough!
Sept 1-30 would be great for archery Elk.
Aug 15-Sept 30 would be great for archery Deer
I'm with Tavis too. Steve, thanks very much for your efforts on our behalf!
What about a compromise on deer and run the archery season the same as pronghorn? Would give a better crack at velvet bucks, and would allow guys who hunt deer and elk to hunt deer early, then focus on elk?
The downside to Sept 1-30 is that it will reduce the season to 4 weekends, which affects many working folks, students and teachers. However, that doesn't appear to be a problem in WY because bowhunters can keep on hunting during rifle season with the same tag. Most of the resident "bowhunters" I met in WY felt that way.
I like it the way it is now
The long season in WY solves a lot of issues. No one is in a big hurry and pressure is spread out over more days. One benefit of having the same size state with 1/10th the population.
See the Moose Season Dates topic in this linked thread-
I have been working on the moose season dates for over 2 years. I have been quietly waiting for the next BGSS cycle to start and I reminded the State Big Game Manager and Regulation Manager about my petition via email before the last CPW Commission meeting last week. I will follow this to the end and expect season dates to change for the better for all future moose hunters.
Here is her reply-
Andy and I did not forget your petition. I will be bringing up moose season timing and length, as well as methods of take for moose hunting during my BGSS presentation in May. This presentation will be focused on gaining support from the Commission on a potential list of BGSS topics and the appropriate level of public involvement. We don't want to get too narrowly-focused at this point, but that should open the door to your suggestions for potential discussion. Thanks for the reminder!
Danielle M Isenhart Regulations Manager
Sandbrew
Split the deer season into 2 seasons - 2 weeks early for people that want velvet and 2 weeks later for people that dont care about velvet.
Same amount of time as elk, and possibly distribute hunters better
Jaq's proposition to make deer and goat start the same day 8/15 would make me cream my panties. Only downside is archery hunt codes preference point creep would get crazy.
BTW - I like the Sept 1- 30 elk dates
I also really think the 'Quiet Time' needs to be tapped for additional high PPs seasons
I am totally in favor of this hard start, 9/1 to 9/30 for elk. Selfishly, as a resident, the number of weekends limited to 4 is better for me as I can hunt any day. Plus 80F degree days in August SUCK for hunting so that early first weekend is a throw away for me. I doubt the State would want to create different starts and stops for other species, KISS and all. But that would be fine for me as well and makes a lot of sense for deer and speed goats.
Deer and elk being together all season doesn't matter to me. It was a big plus back when you always had an elk, deer and bear tag in your pocket but with muley population issues, going all limited for deer and bear going limited and OTC with caps, I don't see it as being that important anymore. My muley spots aren't where I like to elk hunt. As for bears I think they could make archery OTC in most of the State and not have a measurable effect on management.
Sept 1-30 sounds good to me.
I am totally in favor of archery dates, 9/1 to 9/30.
Keep it simple....
Up to a week more in the rut? You bet.
I do not like the hard set dates. It is a bad idea for those of use who hunt weekends. I dd a quick look at the calendar and in most years guys who hunt only weekends will have fewer hunting days than with the hard set. Like mentioned above we will have only 4 weekends some times where as now we currently 5.
I prefer the current timing.
Or maybe do like spring turkey in Missouri and start elk season the first Monday in September...... (evil grin)
I wish I had more empathy for guys who say they only hunt weekends as relates to this proposal.... Why should bow hunting season, in perpetuity, be scheduled for folks who do not prioritize the hunt and make time for it. We all make choices, including where we work and the time off policies of the places we work. If my work will not allow me to hunt some weekdays each September then my problems are a LOT bigger than whether the state goes to a hard start/end of Sept 1-30. I need a new employer.
Anyway, “I only hunt weekends” lacks strength as an argument against Sept 1-30 IMO. Even though many bowhunters have rigid job schedules that does not mean it should carry all the weight in the discussion.
I like the Sept 1-30 for elk, maybe earlier dates for deer.
Kirby - Who said the guys that would prefer to see archery season to continue to have 5 weekends only hunt weekends or don't take vacation time to hunt? I get 4 weeks vacation and use most of it to hunt (ask my wife :) ) But there is a lot to hunt during the year. Starting with turkeys in the spring, antelope, elk and bear in the mountains, plains deer if I can draw, maybe a out of state deer hunt, then pheasant hunting. Vacation time goes fast and a couple of extra days to hunt when the majority of people have days off (weekends) is a good thing for a lot of people.
If I had a vote I would keep the start date the last Saturday in August. You old retired geezers try to remember when you had to work for a living ;)-
I agree with Khunter. Who doesnt get vacation time from an employer? Hell, you could take LWOP if needed.
Its about priorities - choose wisely
I get the weekend thing. I have a lot of family stuff that eats away at time off. But, I would be fine trading that for an elk season that was pushed a few days later. It would not be a benefit for hunting muleys. If west of I-25 deer mirrored pronghorn, that would be a better fit date wise. If it can't due to fawn survival rates, push either sex until later in the season like pronghorn.
Kirby, I've argued that very thing MANY times in the past at CBA board meetings. Long before I was retired. The folks wanting more weekend days always won out. That's why I'm surprised that the CBA supports this option. I think if they polled the membership they would change their recommendation, even though there are more benefits to 9/1 - 9/30 than the one and only benefit of 1 or two additional weekend days.
Definitely in favor of the September 1-30 idea but wondering where ML would fall into this proposal.
Ziek - nothing is even on paper yet. All I said is the board members in the room were in favor. We can't take an official position until CPW produces alternatives to be voted on. We are months out on that. We don't also have a list of alternatives to poll on yet either. Way to early to even know if the concept gets any favor with staff or the commission. It was one commissioner throwing out his thoughts. I do think we have an open board position if you want to come out of retirement.
There was no discussion of where ML would fall. More info to come.
All that said, I personally could see a scenario where early deer, and Sept 1-30 elk could get some votes in favor. It would be more time afield for outfitting, and DIY hunters. We are still down one commissioner as Spehar failed to be confirmed on the Senate floor.
Just a thought as compromise if some guys having 5 weekends is most important. To others a later start date is most important. Start the season on the Saturday closes to Sept 1 and it runs 30 days. This could be best of both worlds. Instead of last Saturday in August that can be as early as August 23rd. This way season would always start between August 28th and September 3rd.
Who does not get vacation time? Try being a teacher. Sorry but I get 4 days of personal leave a year. Thus I only get to hunt weekends. It is pathetic to think I do not make hunting a priority. On the flip side when you limit the number of weekends you will see an increase in the number of guys hunting during the week. In Colorado we have a ton of guys who like the 5 weekends because they can hunt 10 to 15 days total with taking minimal days off. If you limit those days, then the guys who normally leave the woods for Monday through Thursday will be forced into taking week days off and increasing crowding when it typically falls off.
Also with our 5 weekend structure if you plan it right and are a "serious" hunter who takes time off you can usually partner our odd season start times with another hunt in a different state. For example a guy can hunt the last week of archery in Colorado then skip north across the WY boarder and hunt a week up there prior to the rifle opener. You could do this any ways, but there is something to be said for teaming the 5 weekend structure with earlier antelope of later hunters in other states.
I will take 5 weekends any day over hard set dates.
coelker
Looking at the local school/teacher workday calendar, I count 16 days that teachers get off Mid-Aug - May. Its just unfortunate that only one of those days fall in September for you.
Teaching isn't great for elk hunting but a free week during whitetail season, 2 free weeks to coyote hunt or ice fish in winter, a free week in the spring and a couple months off in the Summer to fish without using any vacation time isn't a bad gig. :^)
Not a bad gig, but there are careers out there where you can not get time off. Again I will strongly support the 5 weekend arrangement we have now. Because it is good for those in situations like mine. I look forward to my post teaching career time when I can actually take a week off to hunt. But until then, I need weekends... Having hunted other states like WY with hard dates, it becomes hard when the opener falls on a Sunday or a Monday, or when the season ends on Friday etc.
Since this is a archery hunting sight I was focused on what the hard dates meant for archery hunting, not all the other stuff.
"Who does not get vacation time? Try being a teacher. Sorry but I get 4 days of personal leave a year."
Wah, wah, wah. For most of my career I worked all holidays, including Thanksgiving and Christmas. It was really unfair that the airlines didn't shut down so we could be at home with our families. ;-) Just saying. Choose your trade-offs wisely.
Ziek - Wah, Wah, Wah - I guess we can confer from your statement it was not important to you to spend time with your family. Instead you spent a lot of time in hotels and away from your family on holidays. That is the trade off you made.
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I just don't see starting the season on average 3-4 days later being enough of a plus to the majority of archers to give up two days of weekends to hunt. If it see my suggestion above. I know old guys like Ziek are not concerned about the archers that have a responsibility to provide for a family and everything else that comes with it that limits time they have to hunt. They may even like the idea of keeping them out of the woods so they have less competition. I would suggest that there is a silent majority that because of there hectic life cannot show up to CPW meeting that would agree.
I have no problems with the "status quo" with 5 weekends, and prefer it to the "hard dates" alternative.
I'm in favor of keeping the 5 weekends also.
I like to refer to the 80-20 rule. I'd rather satisfy the 80 versus the 20. I'd say put a poll together, have the CBA send it out asap and vote on it.
September 1-30 would be awesome! Sure hope that goes through along with more reasonable moose season dates!
What about 2 tiers of OTC archery tags?
One that starts early in August and has 5 weekends an one that is Sept 1-30?
The Sept 1-30 OTC would cost a bit more in exchange for the later days. What if CPW doubled the $46 resident fee to $92 for the extra late days? If only 1/2 of the 48,000 archery elk hunters took the later season option the CPW would make and additional $1,104,000 per year. A cash strapped CPW might just go for it? A staggered start and end of the season would maybe ease some crowding issues? No more archery hunters in the field than before but more primo dates for archers. Just a suggestion....
Sandbrew
Steve, Just to clarify, I being at the same CBA BOD meeting as you, my impression was the BOD looked with SOME FAVOR, concerning the Sept 1- 30 elk dates. Not "in favor" of that season, at all. There were 5 BOD members not there. One needs to check on the opening dates of the Early High Country Rifle deer hunts in a variety of GMUs. Most of those start around Sept 1. We have complained in the past that there was a conflict with rifle hunters and bow hunter, hunting the same HC deer season. In most cases, the bow hunters have a least one week to hunt deer and elk before the High Country rifle deer season starts.
Yes, the Week End only elk bow hunters will not like having there season cut by almost 1/4. from 5 week ends to 4 week ends. Currently bow hunters have almost 2 weeks to hunt prior to the ML season. That would change to one week prior. And who knows where the ML season might end up. The Last 9 days of Sept???????. Lots to think about before we LEAP.
I don't think they can raise the fee without legislation, we just did that for an 8 dollar increase plus cpi.
What if they add a "second rod" stamp for the additional days? Sandbrew
Over the years we've discussed the CPW 'these changes', and 'those changes' and 'what ifs' - but in actuality, no big changes never really happen
If any thing does happen in the new BGSS , my bet it will be pretty 'vanilla'
Hmmm...what proposal will make the most (or increase) revenue for the CPW?
While you may think it is all about revenue, it is not. Managing hunter's timelines/numbers/fair share, for the various hunting seasons plays an important part of the decision making process. Then throw in the important inspects of actual game management, keeping a constant game balance on the ground in the various habitats that can change is an ever increasing challenge for the CPW staff and Regional Managers, biologists. My best, Paul
I would rather have more days in the peak of the rut than 2 extra weekend days. Sept. 1-30 is my vote.
