San Juan National Forest closure
Contributors to this thread:Colorado
From: J Man
11-Jun-18
J Man's Link
From: JRABQ
11-Jun-18
Well that sux, but not unexpected. I suspect Rio Grande Forest will be next. Hope we get an early and prolific monsoon.
In the link FS says; "Exemptions might be granted on a case-by-case basis with a written authorization from the Forest Service, which would include specific requirements for fire prevention." Wonder what it takes to get an exemption?
From: ColoBull
11-Jun-18
Bummer...
From: ColoBull
11-Jun-18
'Doesn't bode well. As for Monsoon hopes, unfortunately... "As of May 2018, most computer models agree that a weak El Niño (0.5 to 1.0 oC) could form during the summer and continue to gradually intensify later in the fall." Glad that there are OTC units elsewhere, rather than all draw...
From: Tomichi
11-Jun-18
Near 0 growth season here in the Gunnison Basin on our winter range. I have seen Sage summer kill on wetter years then this. This is the Lowest humidity in our fire fuels ever recorded.
From: 2dapoint
11-Jun-18
So what if your unit is closed during the season you draw. Eat the tag and lose 6 points?
From: altitude sick
11-Jun-18
You can get your points back. But you donate the tag fee.
From: Longcruise
11-Jun-18
That's the first time I have seen a flat out closure!
Is it necessary or overzealous bureacrats? we have been trying
From: RogBow
11-Jun-18
That's very bad news Tomichi, I was concerned about that.
From: bwallace
11-Jun-18
This is a joke. The reasonable access to the San Juan National forrest is already closed for 5 months in the 4 corners already. I guess hiking starts fires. Closing lakes to bank fishing? BS
From: Longcruise
12-Jun-18
There will probably be some backlash from business, Chambers of commerce, city councils and county commissioners. It's going to hurt anyone associated with recreation pursuits.
Other NF administrators have dealt with fire conditions with fire bans, smoking bans and enforcement. Be interesting to see how it plays out. Meanwhile, pray for rain.
From: IVL
12-Jun-18
I personally support this decision, in fact I would like to see more closures. I see too many irresponsible people who have no regard for our resource, abusing it. and there is not enough law enforcement to police these selfish people. in my area we have been in a stage 2 burn ban for several months, yet every time i drive past the reservoir to our ranch I see camp fires smoldering early in the morning campers sound asleep the only care they have is themselves. there are more and more transient people living in our forest leaving their trash in our forest to add to the fuel loading. not enough law enforcement to make them move after 14 days. there's a guy that shows up at the lake every year for the past three years and lives all summer in his broken down motor home trash all over. no official ever says anything to him. then there are the recreational shooters who think that anywhere in the forest is a good place to let the bullets fly, with no regard for ATV's riding by or dirt bikes. its out of control the lack of respect for others and not enough enforcement to police them. Shut it down and take away the carelessness! I've fought wild fires for 17 years and i have seen first hand how careless people ruin our lands. i want to enjoy the public lands with my family we shoot, camp, hunt, fish, pay for our licenses and foot the bill. lot of the people I'm talking about contribute nothing, they just abuse and take. This State thrives on recreationl dollars and hunting is a big revenue generator, and they will lift the stage 3 ban when hunting seasons come around. I would rather have a summer closure than turn in a tag cause my uint that i hunt is burned up and I won't be able to hunt there for 7 years, which is about how long it takes to re-open after a major fire goes through. just my 25 cents........
From: rickh
12-Jun-18
Forest service, county, and town officials down here didn't make this decision lightly. Most county commissioners as well as town officials are on board with this. It's a huge economic hit. Firefighting personnel are already spread thin. It's so dry down here and with the hot winds we've been getting one spark could start another massive blaze. It's just takes one careless, disrespectful bozo to start it. Hoping for some relief this weekend with chances for rain in the forecast. I'm starting to scout other areas for September.
From: Longcruise
12-Jun-18
Steed, I feel your pain. I see a lot of the same things in some areas. The closer to the front range the worse it gets. But, like you said, you like to do all those same activities so how do we decide who can use NF and who can't?
From: IVL
12-Jun-18
Mike that's a good question that will Haunt us for a very long time! cause if you go with a pay to play fee system that everyone has to pay for some type of pass you still have enforcement issues. As we all know there are still those people that still fish without a license, drive with out insurance, disregard fire ban signs.... i could go on and on. but when you close roads down and put barricades up and block people out maybe it creates an awareness. like the old saying you never miss something until its taken away. but this is only a temporary solution to a growing problem. The economic impact of forest closure will be hard on the recreation industry. we have to figure out a way to police ourselves or the government will step in and it will cost all of us more in the long run.
From: rideold
12-Jun-18
In my eyes this closure is as much about keeping things safe as it is the forest service not having enough staff to keep an eye on things. Since the fire danger is so high and there isn't enough coverage the only option is a closure.
From: Nomad
12-Jun-18
@rideold I agree 100%. The closure sucks for sure but with so many morons out there it makes sense until some rain decides to show up. Lets hope it starts soon too.
From: Longcruise
12-Jun-18
Supposed to be a hurricane going on in the Pacific off Mexico. That's usually good for some moisture coming up across AZ .
From: a'Lish
12-Jun-18
Looking north out of Durango on Saturday evening
From: rideold
12-Jun-18
Just heard there is a fire near Rico that has started.
From: bwallace
12-Jun-18
I am sorry to hear that I am one of the few that is dissapointed in punishing everyone for the ****possible**** bad acts of others in the future. Again, shore fishing, walking in the OUR national forrest or anything that has never and will never be associated with building a fire is now ILLEAGLE? Again, BS
From: Buglmin
13-Jun-18
The forest is expected to be closed at least 4 to 6 weeks. Gates are locked across the roads allowing no motorized travel. It's bad here, and will take a lot of moisture to allow the forest to be opened.
From: ColoBull
13-Jun-18
Human activity contributes to fire starting, plain & simple. No matter how careful you are, accidents can happen. & not all fire sources are from campfires. All it takes is a little grass up against a catalytic converter, or a flat tire & a steel rim on gravel, throwing sparks. 'Lot's of "non fire activities can contribute to accidental wildfire. It's tinder dry, and eliminating the "human factor" is the one controllable variable. 'Been watching Hurricane Bud, and keeping my fingers crossed. COME ON BUD!!!
From: Longcruise
13-Jun-18
Your not alone, Wallace. Precautions needed to be taken but a full closure is an extreme overreaction IMO.
From: bwallace
13-Jun-18
People hauling ass through a dry field with flat tires does sound dangerous. The forest will likely not open back up in a timely manner if rain arrives. Nothing like serfdom in La Plata County.
From: altitude sick
14-Jun-18
Looks like rain is on the way bring hurricane Bud. ??
From: cnelk
14-Jun-18
Two years ago during the Beaver Creek fire in the N Colorado / WY border, many areas were closed for hunting seasons, there definitely wasnt the wining about that closure like there is about this one.
Moose hunter that had tags were allowed to hunt the following year.
From: PECO
14-Jun-18
We had a very recent fire north of Canon City, it was caused by lightning. No rain, just lightning. I don't know how many fires are stated via lightning, vs. idiots, vs. flat tires, but I am in favor of closing the forest and eliminating the idiot factor.
From: Fins&Feathers
14-Jun-18
I have heard that the train was what started this fire, but haven't seen confirmation of that.
If that's true, it's ironic that one of the main economic drivers in Durango created such a detrimental effect to the others in the region.
From: Orion
14-Jun-18
Oh it was the train, but whether they will put it as the cause in the actual report is up for debate. There is an article and video of the two gentleman that saw the train start it but their water truck wasn't working and they couldn't extinguish the fire in time.
From: Longcruise
14-Jun-18
Cnelk, that wasn't a closure of the entire NF but rather the area of the fire.
There has never before been a closure of an entire forest.
Administration of the San Juan NF has a history of heavy handed management.
From: Buglmin
14-Jun-18
When the fire first started it was reported to have been caused by the train that had recently went through. That night, as the fire grew, the story was changed.
We don't need just a day of rain, that won't help. We need days and days and days of rain. Lakes are do low that they are worried about water in the sun divisions and even in Farmington NM.
From: ZachinCO
14-Jun-18
Longcruise, are you speaking about CO only when you refer to entire forest closures?
I was just over in Pagosa Springs Tuesday & Wednesday, pretty dry with lots of tinder. I was surprised to see a few campfires tuesday evening on the drive up 160 between South Fork and Pagosa.
I see there is a new fire up on the CO/WY border, SW of Laramie.
From: bwallace
14-Jun-18
"Two years ago during the Beaver Creek fire in the N Colorado / WY border, many areas were closed for hunting seasons, there definitely wasnt the wining about that closure like there is about this one."
Not sure what the point of that statement is. Maybe it's something like "back in my day, 2 years ago, we took our public land confiscation with dignity". I don't know. Maybe complaints were warrented then as they are now.
From: txhunter58
14-Jun-18
If "I" express a "concern" it is just that, a concern. Is someone else does, it is "whining" LOL
Just let people express their feelings without giving it a derogatory label so you can feel superior.
From: cnelk
14-Jun-18
Struck a chord about an area that’s near and dear to many people.
Good to know
From: Longcruise
14-Jun-18
Zach, I am referring to Colorado only. One problem for the southwest corner is that it's loaded with tourists this time of year and many of them have only been in the state for a couple hours and know nothing about a fire ban.
Area I was talking about is South Park and most of the campers along the back roads are locals who are better aware of bans in effect.
From: Ermine
15-Jun-18
It’s a little dry down here. :)
From: ZachinCO
15-Jun-18
Longcruise, I figured was just making sure. I know when I lived back in SoCal they closed off a few of the NF completely during some fires. I never went west of Pagosa, but driving on 160 I would have thought I was in TX....lots of trailers with UTV's on them.
From: swampokie
15-Jun-18
I hear 65% of homes in pagosa are owned by Texans. Not sure how accurate that is as it seems a little low
From: cnelk
15-Jun-18
Easy now... there are Texans on here that may take derogatory
From: txhunter58
15-Jun-18
So what you are saying is that in addition to NRs paying 70% of wildlife license revenue, Texans pay the majority of property taxes up there too? :-)
From: ohiohunter
15-Jun-18
Sounds like Ruidoso NM, that neighborhood sure went to Sh@#$
From: Paul@thefort
15-Jun-18
above picture taken from Lake John, this picture take as the fire moved east, on site.
above picture taken from Lake John, this picture take as the fire moved east, on site.
a week later and the fire has not been contained.
a week later and the fire has not been contained.
Last Friday this Mountain Home Wyo fire started just north of the Colorado line. It has now expanded and is still burning and has jumped the Highway moving east.
From: ZachinCO
15-Jun-18
"So what you are saying is that in addition to NRs paying 70% of wildlife license revenue, Texans pay the majority of property taxes up there too? :-)"
About time the commission raises NR fees.... :P
From: PECO
16-Jun-18
Easy on the Texans, I'll take Texans over Kalifornians any day!
From: Jaquomo
16-Jun-18
2/3 of wildfires are human caused. I guess the rationale is that eliminating that 66% risk is worth the loss of revenue and heat from the public.
I live on the edge of a big roadless area in Roosevelt NF above hundreds of homes and cabins and a village. Last Sunday some idiot lit an illegal slash pile 1/4 mile up the hill from me in hot 25 mph wind. It took off but we got it out before it blew up. Could've been an epic disaster. Even the CPW WCO rushed up to help the USFS and our volunteers.
Idiots abound among us.
From: ColoBull
16-Jun-18
If you like the forest, imagine a burnt out wasteland in it's place. It took the Hayman burn a good 10 years to look somewhat "pleasant" again. It really sucked being "locked out" for years afterward to allow the sensitive vegetation to recover. The Platte and other streams & lakes were devastated by mudflows from the burn areas. It poisned almost everything . I know it sucks, but I have to agree with the likes of Jaq - eliminating the risk may be worth the pain. 'Good to hear you got a handle on it, Lou.
From: JLeMieux
16-Jun-18
Is the rain helping a little today, or is there too much rain?
From: Buglmin
16-Jun-18
We have out share of summer homes that at are owned by folks from Texas, but also California, Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico. It's funny cause folks buy three acres and then out four horses on it year round and wonder why they have to feed year round.
We got some rain this morning, but not enough . You go out and brush away two inches of pine needles and everything else is still dry. Rio Grande national forest is still open and campfires are allowed in fire pits. We've had a forest service helicopter flying around looking for people behinded locked gates or still riding atv's on the forest. And yes, they are writing either tickets or citations if caught.
From: txhunter58
16-Jun-18
"About time the commission raises NR fees.... :P "
They already do, every year. My elk tag cost total was $674 this year.
From: txhunter58
17-Jun-18
We are scheduled to be up there over the week of July 4th. Now that looks to be in jeopardy. Feel for those that were planning on being there now. And looking at latest updates, doesn't look like the present rain is enough to make a big difference, so probably won't open it back up anytime soon unless todays rains put out the fires. Forecast is not promising
From: bwallace
17-Jun-18
The roads into the San Juan national forest were closed all winter. When I called and asked why, I was told it was to keep people from getting stuck in the snow and causing ruts in the mud. It just so happened there was not any snow and no mud. So why was all convenient access closed again? If it rained all day for 2 weeks the national forest wouldn't open back up, and now that a total closure happened once it will happen again with much less provocation.
From: Orion
18-Jun-18
I agree bwallace and now that they have shut us out it will probably take an act of congress to get it opened back up
From: swampokie
18-Jun-18
It will not open back up without important people requesting it be opened. I have a tag this fall that I mite as well turn in. Very convienient to not monitor campsites and daily duties that aren’t required with a closed gate. It may protect the resource but it makes life a lot easier on a lota Usfs employees. Too bad the forecasted rain didn’t come.
From: ZachinCO
18-Jun-18
"Easy on the Texans, I'll take Texans over Kalifornians any day!" Native CA folks are ok, aren't they? :) It's the locust that moved from back east, ruined CA, then are now moving back east slowly you're referring to...
From: trackman
18-Jun-18
swampokie it rained for 2 days and helped the fire a lot.
From: swampokie
18-Jun-18
Thank goodness it rained more than I thought! Need a lot more
From: Orion
18-Jun-18
The problem is at what amount is enough to open the forest back up and who is making the decision?
From: cnelk
18-Jun-18
Next year should be a killing zone in that burn area
From: swampokie
18-Jun-18
Orion... those are the 2 million $ questions...
From: ohiohunter
18-Jun-18
ohiohunter's Link
As of the 16th its 30% contained, what days did it rain up there?
From: Orion
18-Jun-18
16th and 17th
From: Jahvada
18-Jun-18
In the eyes of the USFS the rain was not enough and other forest area's are looking at going to stage 3 very soon if we do not get more rain.
The leaders of the Uncompahgre, Gunnison, San Isabel, Pike, and Rio Grande National Forests are looking real hard at stage 3 right now...
Yea it might get real crowded in the OTC units north of I-70 if this continues as it looks like we will soon see other area's follow what was put in place for the San Juan.
From: ohiohunter
18-Jun-18
Not sure when they'll update the link, maybe every saturday? We'll see, and compare to local grapevine talk.
From: Longcruise
18-Jun-18
Longcruise's Link
The decision to close the forest is made by the NF supervisor. The Super for San Juan is Kara Chadwick. She will also be the one who decides when to reopen it.
Whoever said the winter closures are about mud and ruts was talking out their A$$. The back roads are closed from end of big game season until May 1st. It's about protecting wintering elk. If they weren't closed the snowmobilers and ATVers would push them all winter.
I have been there both before and after may 1st while turkey hunting and have hiked in on closed roads up to ten miles. I see lots of wintering elk. When the roads open they move up country right away but of course by that time they are able to move into their spring calving areas away from the roads.
I think I have attached a link to Chadwick explaining the closure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TEVkmBtFKE
From: Orion
18-Jun-18
FYI this came out today the Uncompahgre, Gunnison, San Isabel, Pike, and Rio Grande National Forests are getting ready to put stage 3 restrictions in place if we dont get rain. The forcast is for 10 days of dry weather with above average temps/wind.. That means they will all be closed like the San Juan.
From: JLeMieux
18-Jun-18
That's disheartening. I hope you guys get the rain you need soon.
From: bwallace
18-Jun-18
The road on the east side of Vallecito dead ends within 1 mile and it is gated. Elk don't winter there, packing in shoulder to shoulder on a dirt road, especially when there are hayfields everywhere else down lower. Again, I don't think the elk winter up in the mountains if there are open fields to enjoy. Why would they prefer starving over hayfields? I've seen seasonal closures for areas where animals winter, but blocking off EVERY road leading all into national forest land is an insult. I also don't believe that anything winters at the 25,50,75 or 100 yard backstop on the CPW sponsered (formerly Lions Club) *****public**** shooting range, but it is shut down December 1-May 1. Why is that? The closures seem to be more to remind us that we are subjects first and foremost and our recreation on ****public**** land is available at the disposal of the powers that be.
From: rickh
18-Jun-18
Hopefully with the above average rainfall this last weekend things have changed with the criteria for stage 3 restrictions and the forest will open soon. bwallace, depending on the snowpack, there are a good number of elk that do winter on the east side of Vallecito. Not on the road, but definitely on the west facing slope above the road in the old burn. The same holds true with a lot of the winter closures around here. A lot of elk used to come down lower and some still do, but with new sub-divisions going in elk are definitely being displaced. I don't mind giving them a break in the winter if possible.
From: bwallace
18-Jun-18
I don't mind giving them a break, but I'd love to see someone try to take a vehicle up the side of said mountain to disturb the alleged elk. I guess I haven't lived in the area long enough and having access for nearly half they year yanked away, and then some, still burns me. Its like I'm an invited guest on ****public**** land. We should not be treated like children. Maybe in time I'll just get numb to the process.
From: Longcruise
19-Jun-18
Well, you know that country way better than I, but the only road I ever drove on the east side was the one at the north end. It was steep and winding and went way beyond a mile. We drove up it around may 3rd two years ago and started seeing elk within a half mile. They wouldn't have been there if the road was open to snowmobilers.
I think I know what you are talking about re the shooting range and if it is closed, that is sorta rediculous.
From: Orion
19-Jun-18
What's scary is Kara and other San Juan foresters claiming we are 5" of moisture short for where we should be. So does that mean they won't re-open if we don't get at least 5" inches of moisture before fall. Who is measuring and where? What if we get 3 or 4 will they still not open? So many questions and we aren't getting many answers. Heck Durango closed the dog park and the college just closed all their walking trails.
From: bwallace
19-Jun-18
Those were "feel good closures". Agency's that don't fall in lock step with forest service closures may be made out to not care about the fire, fire fighters or five evacuees.
From: Orion
19-Jun-18
True there is a lot of that down here anymore
From: swampokie
19-Jun-18
Will the loss of millions in turned in tags and otc purchases affect them in any way. I know the Usfs won’t be affected by this revenue loss but the state will absorb a huge loss. I just wonder if anyone in the state has Enuff influence to get the gates opened in August in lue of the millions that ride on open or closed gates.
From: Longcruise
19-Jun-18
It's a long way to go before opener!
From: swampokie
19-Jun-18
U are correct but I bet they don’t have an easy button to push to reopen the forest. Just sayin.
From: Orion
19-Jun-18
Your right it is a ways off, but now that they have it closed I have a bad feeling it isn't going to open as easily as it was shut down. Especially if they keep playing the rain card.
From: Longcruise
19-Jun-18
Well, all things considered, Chadwick will be damned no matter what she does!
We and the entire recreational business want it open for our uses be they personal recreation or business. Local businesses and government were on board when the threat was/is very real but there will be pressure from many different sources to get it back to normal.
From: swampokie
19-Jun-18
I agree longcruise its no fault of hers but it is very unfortunate for all except the trees and wildlife
From: trackman
19-Jun-18
they are letting cattle go on the forest ???
From: trackman
19-Jun-18
they are letting cattle go on the forest ??? and sheep
From: Glunt@work
19-Jun-18
I wish I could have steered weather their way today. Major hail damage to my rig, killed my friends chickens and can't get rid of the water as fast as its filling up.
From: RogBow
19-Jun-18
We took some fire here too.
From: Longcruise
19-Jun-18
Wow! Where are you, Roger?
From: RogBow
19-Jun-18
Brighton area. A lot of damage throughout the neighborhood, including roofs, cars, trees, and generally anything outside, my bbq grill has dents.
From: Longcruise
19-Jun-18
Wow, sorry you were in the path. All part of living in Colorado.
From: swampokie
20-Jun-18
The San Juan opens back up tomorrow according to their website!!!!!
From: txhunter58
20-Jun-18
Check 416 fire facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/416Fire/
THEY ARE GOING TO REOPEN THE FOREST TOMORROW UNDER STAGE 2 FIRE RESTRICTIONS!!
From: Orion
20-Jun-18
Crazy it's still dry they must not be able to keep letting that revenue leave.
From: Jaquomo
20-Jun-18
We had a sudden wave of big hail on the north end of FtC yesterday and my GF got caught in it. Her Mercedes looks like somebody took a sledgehammer to it. I saw the wave coming and did a u-turn over the median, sped up the other way and stayed just ahead of it. Yep, part of living in Colorado.
From: bwallace
20-Jun-18
Outstanding , opening not hail damage
From: trackman
20-Jun-18
The San Juan forest will open 6/21 2018
From: Buglmin
20-Jun-18
But still under stage two fire restrictions. And only certain gates will be opened. If it gets drier or a fire starts they will reclose it.
