Its on right now. Premeeting workshop they are going with workshop and education over a baiting ban. Loveless tells the commission they can ban baiting at anytime. Lauber is scared of the legislature (read that Ken Corbet) taking power away if they pass a baiting ban. Fast forward to regular meeting. Outfitters showed up in force to protest a baiting ban and the turkey draw. I dont see a baiting ban ever going through in this state.
Some folks are just dumb ^, and SMALL minded, but nobody with the sense God gave a field mouse would disagree...after watching and listening to all of the presentations...that baiting should be eliminated.
Don't care what the outfitters think or want, and they don't care about the health of the herd.
I commend the presenters, and the Commissioners, for taking first steps. Not going to be easy, there will be a lot of moaning, but it's the right thing to do and we all know this.
I just got to the public comment section, will watch later, but Commissioner Lauber's quote below pretty much says it all.
"In a perfect world the Commission would ban baiting, on a science standpoint".
Stopping feeding will not stop deer from eating off the same plant or grooming each other.I just don't know because they are so social.One expert says feeding is not the problem and may even end being how they treat it and others scream that they swap spit anytime they feed from a feeder.While several biologist say CWD has been here forever and just like anthrax will be here long after we are gone.I just hope Kansas doesn't bring in sharpshooters to try and shoot all the deer so they don't die like some states have.
I've yet to hear anyone, at any meeting, bring up "sharpshooters"? I have heard them ask, even implore, that sportsmen and women take it upon themselves to stop the unneeded and unwarranted supplemental feeding.
I wonder how many have the wherewithal, or moral compass, to do so?
Disappointed no one on the commission, biologists or in the crowd responded to the outfitters by asking what the economic impacts would be of losing one or more of these resources altogether? When EHD/CWD, drought, bird flu, or another natural phenomenon causes these fellows to lose some or all of their herds/flocks are they going to be the first to raise their hands to say by congregating all these animals we had a huge impact on their demise? Just like they want credit for the good they think they’re doing now? What if instead of buying 30,000lbs of peanuts and protein pellets that one fellow was bragging about that money went to habitat and an extra guide or two that helps your clients actually hunt rather than simply sitting and waiting. Most in favor of baiting can’t see past their own personal interests and greed. Who gives a damn if you allow a few doe hunts a year? How much permission and opportunity did you confiscate in the meantime to run a 50k acre operation? Sad they can’t look at the big picture and more than just the one or two species they earn a dollar off of.
It was described best to me in this example. Baiting is like a metro area that sucks inhabitants from outlying areas. Just like in human metro areas, more disease and more death per square mile. This made a lot of sense.
…just remember if you can’t make these meetings “in person” you can always participate remotely via Zoom and add your comments, thoughts and opinions to the meeting when the Commission opens the floor up to public comment at the end of agenda and non-agenda items. They are real good about asking if anyone on Zoom has any comments before moving on. Just means you have to listen in to the majority of meeting to some degree to know when it’s time for public comment and then man up and engage the Commissioners. Also helps to look at the Agenda to try and gauge when public comment portions might happen.
Outfitters are losing their minds. I hope they get rid of baiting. And do it right so that it doesn't create loopholes such as spreading of crops and mineral blocks made of food
So is the Native American thing a real deal? Like are normal people trying to say they are NA and get a tag? I have no clue…..I’m just asking. Because there is ZERO chance in **** in todays society they contest someone’s word on what nationality,sex race or whatever they are!
Horrible use of statistics to try and back up his use of baiting. And I would say he’s no more qualified to speak on this topic than my 11 year old son, but my son has no financial gain or loss from baiting. It will never be about supplemental feeding or deer observation, with these outfitters and feed salesman. It’s not about herd health. It’s about killing a deer over bait and putting coin in their pocket.
Here's what's important, the baiters will whine and they will most likely be sending their whining diatribes to the commissioners. I would encourage those here who do hunt, and do have morals, to send their opinions on as well.
The same friend who goose hunts (can't bait migratory birds) is upset a ban will trample private property rights. I do not see that side. You can still feed all you want, you just will not to be legally able to hunt there. Hunting/fishing is a privilege under current law. So would this be affecting PPR or Hunting Privileges.
I picked up some buckwheat seed and fertilizer this morning from the local coop. The owner asked about the bait ban, so word is definitely getting around. When I asked him how much corn they sell to hunters each fall he said from October through the first week of December, they sell around 5 tons a week at the most, and it would average around 3.5-4 tons/week during that same time.
That’s not even two semi loads a season. Even with a little markup the time involved in messing with baiters wouldn’t be worth it to me. Peanuts on his overall balance sheet I would think.
Watched the expert “hobby” feed salesman do his fear mongering. Zero mention of anything other than deer. It’s obvious the pro bait folks are incredibly tunnel visioned towards one thing only, “their” deer. It has to be driven home that the more feed sites are studied the negatives continue to compound for a variety of species. These hobby expert “herd managers”, as he calls them, that learned everything from the Outdoor Channel can’t see past their nose on this deal. To them this is only about their experience and ability to kill a big buck as simply as possible. The decision should be made with all species and user groups in mind.
Doesn't matter to me really the only question that no one seems to answer is has CWD gone away in states that don't allow supplemental feeding?Don't think so.I just don't see a reason for a certain to constantly put people down because they have a different opinion.
It’s been proven time and time again that feeding animals corn doesn’t benefit them. Cwd is just one of the possible downsides to it. Instead of feeding corn why not work on some actual habitat improvements. I’m not talking about food plots either. Plant some native species that benefit every thing.
My favorite expression is all of Kansas is a food plot. I then ask so why do you need to bait. Ahhh to get that specific animal right where you want them.
I’ve only been in Kansas for a few years but already noticed things that has changed in that time that needs corrected….something along the the lines of last line of defense!
Talking to a buddy of mine and both of us doubt baiting will ever be banned, UNLESS, it comes down to the science that it does in fact spread disease.
If it comes down to the ethics of it or if it will ever be voted on by the public baiting will stay because money buys votes and ethics have been thrown out the window.
True conservatives are a dying breed as well as true conservationists.
Kdwp believes in the science they have and that is more than enough for the commission to put a ban in place. Generally if they are talking about it, it will happen. They have the science they are just softening the blow to the people that want to keep baiting.
Probably impossible to figure out how much corn is dumped in various states, but I did a quick equation to see what Iowa farmers were missing out on by not allowing baiting.
Their deer population sits around 400k and whitetails eat 2-4lbs of forage per day. Let’s say baiting were to be legalized and every deer in Iowa decides to only eat corn from feeders/piles for 365 days a year. That’s about 8million bushels of corn per year. Iowa raises 2.5billion bushels. So deer would account for far less than 1% of the overall use. Even if you had the math to add coons and turkeys you’re probably still not getting to 1%.
If anyone thinks baiting is somehow supporting the ag industry in any significant way I think their sadly mistaken.
Sorry for wasting your time with this dumb brainstorm. I found it mildly amusing though. Carry on. :)
I guess I should finish my thought Matte… I do think there is a chance the Commission will put a ban in place. I think it’s a slight chance personally, but I hope they do.
However, if and when that happens a bill will soon follow in the legislature and it will become Kansas Law that it’s legal.
Perhaps, I’m being too pessimistic based off past experiences.
I think the concern within the AG industry KB is that leasing will become more difficult at the current cash values if baiting is banned. I don’t think it will, but the people who lease are concerned and the people who lease are generally farmers in my area. I think the perception is that it could affect their pocket book concerning leasing value, because people come here to kill, not hunt… I don’t think it will, it’ll just weed out the laziest of “hunters”. Outfitters on the other hand will have a problem on their hands.
If this happens and people follow the rules, I’m expecting a complete age structure shift in the local whitetail herd for the positive. When I think back to what an outfitter did next to my land in one season (and every season since) I can’t help but be excited at the prospect this could actually happen.
I’m sure there are much bigger concerns than the actual grain usage. Your question up a bit had me curious though what a ridiculously exaggerated total would even look like.
Agree with many of your points, but I think outfitters will be just fine. Maybe even better off. Already some talking on other sites how they would simply use their previous bait expenses to pay farmers to leave a few acres standing here and there. It also might steer some of the lease crowd towards an outfitted hunt. Instead of spending the money on a lease and bait/cameras a few might opt for letting the outfitters do all the work. The draw stats aren’t updated yet for this year but with 8,000 unsuccessful the last two, there are plenty waiting in the wings. And if your thoughts on age structure would happen to play out the demand for quality habitat will be as high as ever.
One arrow, I do believe you are correct. The commission will pass it and the legislature will override. Another thing I think the legislature is fixing to get mixed up in is NR waterfowl and NR turkey hunting.
I was in the coop one time when someone was pulling in with their wagon before rifle season… the guy running the scales wasn’t all that excited about filling it.
Corn used for deer bait isn’t going to affect much on the Chicago Board of Trade.
I wonder if outfitters will be a little more selective in what they lease? I know some are leasing open fields next to timber and dumping corn on the lines.
I would think the high quality acres would bring a premium if scenarios like that were done away with Ray.
I see North Dakota passed a house bill this winter that would’ve prevented bait bans on private land. It was narrowly shot down in the senate. That’s a state that’s probably even more private lands focused than Kansas and R senators outweigh D’s 43-4. Maybe there is hope?
1. OUTFITTERS will be just fine and will have better success finding clients. 2. The NR who leases and gives up do to no baiting and or draw odds will, have Kansas hunters standing in line. Remember Genx had it good till about 2010 and we didnt jump on the wagon. Alot of this generation now has money to lease. 3. The next generations it will be normal to lease just like having a smart phone so they will get friends together and find a chunk. 4. It cant happen soon enough.
Funny how most states that have feeding restrictions,it only restricts during so many days before and during hunting season.Some are deer and turkey and some are only turkey.
Lots of different rules for sure. Pretty much any state west of Kansas and including Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana it’s illegal entirely. North Dakota, Minnesota, Missouri, Wisconsin, Ohio and Michigan all have CWD zones, some half the state or more, where it is illegal completely. Interestingly Arkansas only allows hunting over bait in CWD zones. Where it is legal in Michigan there are maximums for the amount of feed allowed and it has to be spread over a large area, at least 10’x10’. South Dakota doesn’t allow it except for a few months when no hunting seasons are open. Nebraska has a 200 yard/10 day no hunt buffer on feed sites. Even Tennessee and Alabama have restrictions.
Kansas and Saskatchewan are the only two regions I can find where CWD is prevalent and there are no restrictions whatsoever.
Yeah, didn’t include Texas because a majority of their cases are still from captive sites. Though I’m not sure how thorough their testing is. Oklahoma would likely be another, but they don’t test. Just found it interesting in all the areas where wild herds are known to have significant positives those two places are the only to do nothing regarding feeding yet.
I think there are quite a few more states that you can feed deer, I counted 37 that you can feed deer according to last online list.Some of these you can't hunt over or have time restrictions you have to follow after removal.
Cams were dam near banned on the Spot. If they ban this year, it will be as a buffer year to educate the public and give people time to plan a habitat goal. If it does get banned I might get into the food plot business.
Ray, in the meeting last week the department’s recommendation was to start a big education and outreach mission that’s going to include more meetings (not just commission meetings), some with the public, those financially invested in the matter, landowners, hunters etc. Sec Loveless told the commission they’re more than welcome to act on it today if they choose, but the department wants to see more discussion and information put out. Commissioner Lauber said with the information they have now they’re all of the mindset to go through with a ban, but if they did it today without gaining more support “it might be the end of the commission as we know it”. And Commissioner Sporer asked “how many fingers would we like to lose” if they did it today.
I’d look for hopefully a really thorough (all angles of baiting impacts) informational campaign via social media and traditional media outlets coupled with Zoom and town hall style meetings with biologists. They didn’t set a timeline for a change but I can’t imagine they’ll feel comfortable enough until at least the ‘24 season.
Is being passed around by folks calling it an attack on agriculture and basic private property rights, they are also firing up the bird feeding folks telling them they are targeted as well.
This guy claiming that the commissioners are bringing this to the table without science is laughable
Montana a huge ppr state, yet no feeding of hoved animals. Nobody bitches about it up there. I see ppr need fo stay intact but hunting as a privilege that not only needs to be governed but also granted. No if your lost in the woods and need to eat different story.
Wyoming too. Their ranchers just won a Supreme Court battle dealing with water rights and it looks like folks crossing corners/microscopic amounts of private air space might even make it to the Supreme Court. Yet no one is complaining about not being able to set out alfalfa bales at pronghorn water holes. If anyone could argue that feeding wildlife over the winter is beneficial it would be them after this last die off, yet no cries that it’s their “God given right” or that they’re going to do it anyway despite what the law is. The disconnect in Kansas is bad and the sooner the department clears up exactly what the direction is (food plots, bird feeders, etc.) and gets the proper information out there as to why they’re looking into a ban, the better.
One would think the whole herd would be wiped out with CWD, but they’re not. I’ve been to Jackson Hole in the winter and have seen the elk herd. It’s amazing.
Check back with that comparison when anywhere in Kansas starts getting 50”+ of snowfall per month Slate. Also CWD hasn’t been present in the Jackson herds, but it’s knocking on the door. They’re having discussions on how to proceed with the feeding program.
With lions, grizzlies and wolves present unhealthy animals don’t generally live near as long. The spread can be much slower as a result. That said it’ll be an issue soon and things will change I’d imagine.
I know you’re just generally a troll around here Slate, but I am curious though if you’ll sell your farm after the ban? Or just continue to dump and break the law like a bunch of the other internet tough guys who think this is an infringement on their “God given rights” and ability to manage “their herds”?
I ask the question. If it’s so bad and so terrible why is it ok for the federal government to do it? These arguments will come up. How can you defend this? Remember you won’t be in warm little fuzzy forum where everyone agrees with you. You can’t bully someone at the podium. You will need real answers.
Maybe Slate is worried he won't be able to kill anything without baiting. That is what this all boils down to. I really could care less about CWD, but it isn't fair chase hunting over a feeder or corn pile. Outfitters won't have near as high of a success rate for clients and the tv guys won't be able to kill near as many big ones on camera. Looked like Michael Hunsucker was whinning on the tik tok post already. If they do ban it, most on private ground will still do it. But the tv guys and the outfitters will be the slobs it hurts. I hope they get it banned, but I don't know if it will be near as easy as banning camera's on public.
Slate I wasn't trying to answer a question, and if CWD wiped out the entire herd and there wasn't a deer left in Kansas, it really wouldn't bother me. It would get rid of all the leasing and bring land prices down. I wouldn't have to worry about hitting a deer every morning going to school. And I bet it would be much easier gaining access to hunt pheasants.
Jeff what will you say when someone pushes a disabled kid in and asks you whether baiting a deer in for him is fair or not. You going to bully the kid and tell him you are just worried you won’t be able to kill something kid. Get out of the wheelchair kid walk across that creek and kill a deer on that deer run. This is what it boils down to kid.
Jeff talking nonsense on here won’t get you anywhere. If you want change you have to make a good educated argument. Yours is not. The argument is not with me it’s with the commission.
The comparisons between the Jackson/Teton elk herd and Kansas wildlife situation are so few and far between it’s not really worth discussing. You already know that though Slate. Just stirring the pot. If the best argument a pro baiter in Kansas can come up with is that, they’re in trouble indeed. Will agree with you there needs to be less opinions involved and more facts. The facts don’t/won’t favor those whose interests are financially/selfishly motivated when it comes to dumping corn in Kansas.
Not worth discussing because it throws holes in your argument. KB we will agree to disagree that’s fine but, others might just say you are stirring the pot. Baiting animals so they remain on one’s property is what the federal government is doing as others do in Kansas. They are baiting the elk knowing it could possibly pass disease and that’s what they say but, yet the practice is continuing.
Here’s an Alaskan mountain goat guide carrying a legless marine up a mountain to successfully harvest a billy last year. Anyone who wants to use a disabled kid as a prop in this argument says a lot about the type of person they are. Plenty of hunts around the country a disabled person can’t bait. Would bet many still have a quality experience. I’d also bet if this ban was to pass the commission would at least listen to expanded season dates for disabled folks. That sounds like a better outcome than keeping corn piles as an option during the hottest week of the season.
No holes to any logical person. By keeping them off private land where they cause damage and are wanted dead is much different than the greed involved in hoarding deer from your neighbors in Kansas. Again, this is dumb. Have a nice 4th. Let me know how the commission feels about your Jackson Hole elk analogy.
There were disabled youth and adults killing deer in Kansas without bait for several decades before baiting became a thing. Slate we managed to kill deer without bait for many years. It was around 90 or 91 when I discovered my first bait site, a hanging feeder. It isn't about killing, its about hunting, at least for me.
That’s cool Jeff. I’m with you. That could be a good argument. Kansas was fine and the hunting experience was wonderful before 90, 91. Explain how it has changed for you.
No arguing. My reason for baning baiting has nothing to do with cwd, I just think it's an unfair way to hunt. I think it has been toxic to turkeys and helped destroy our turkey population. It gives outfitters leverage to book hunters who have 3 days to kill a deer. So many negatives on top of cwd. If cwd is going to be the ace card to get it banned, it won't ever pass.
Slate what positive impact does baiting have for deer? If we cut out all baiting and supplemental feeding, would Kansas deer suffer? We know the answer, and that should be good enough for a ban.
I get it Jeff trust me. I never told anybody I bait. Making assumptions of me and calling me names and others that might disagree with you won’t work though. You need to take good educated arguments like that to the commission. Following Kyle’s lead won’t help. A lot of good guys on here that want to jump on that pricks band wagon.
Slate I never insulted you or called you anything and I never get on someone's bandwagon, I fly solo. These guys have to get passed CWD. It can't be the only argument against baiting. Deer hunting has infected hunters and our governing body to the point it ruins all other forms of hunting. So many other animals suffer from bait sites. Hunters are greedy, Outfitters are greedy, the state is greedy. It is the commissioners and legislature that has caused all this. The commissioners and legislature put us all against each other through poor management. If they just would have left the model alone and let 10% of Non Residents in, and not made special seasons, we wouldn't have all this crap. They created the outfitters, they created the leasing, and they created the mess.
I definitely understand it Jeff. I bought land in Kansas to get away from the baiting mess in NJ. That is the only way guys know how to hunt here. The younger hunters know any other way.
Yep all these young pups know is technology and baiting. I hope they ban baiting and I am glad they banned trail camera's on public land. But there is such a long list of things wrong that banning baiting is small potatoes. I would rather keep baiting and cut back on NR tags, make NR lifetime license holders go through the draw, do away with the any season tag, and put some regulations on Outfitters. Those things are much more important to me than banning baiting.
It was well into the 2000’s before I saw baiting… it was on property we farmed (didn’t own) that was leased to an outfitter. It steam rolled pretty quickly from there. I doubt there are very many bucks in SE Kansas that hasn’t had their picture taken with their nose stuffed in a feed tube. I know several guys with feeders ready to get rid of them… outfitters baiting has caused a lot of people to bait who never would have otherwise.
It needs to go, but like Jeff a lot of other things I wish they’d change.
Kyle, I’d be somewhat concerned… I think you have a stalker.
I was in high school in 1990 and 91. Why was baiting introduced? What’s the real back story. Outfitters in other states are very successful without bait.
Slate I think you could always bait, just residents never did. What changed? Simple, non resident hunting. Guys started leasing and wanted to make sure they got a deer. No easier way than over a corn pile. Outfitters are greedy and want to make sure they hoard all the big ones on their property. Without successful clients, they can't make money. Hunting went from a hobby to an industry, overnight.
If you graduated in 1990 then how are you still a child? Who posts pictures of other posters without consent?
The excuses with biologists feeding wildlife in winter or bird feeders…there’s a big obvious difference. The intent isn’t to train wildlife to kill it. I guess some of us just respect wildlife too much to bait.
Less hair, add 75 lbs then yes, that might be a pic of me. The smooth girlish skin is a dead giveaway.
Jeff, was it an outfitter or NR that had that feeder? The first time I saw baiting was a left-over pile of corn. The huge piles of coon and coyote crap around it and then the uneaten specs of corn… took me a while to figure out what it was. Once I saw the tree stand exactly 20 yards away I figured it out… at the time I just thought man, that’s a waste of money. But I soon realized and found out from scouting around other land that was leased for outfitting that it was their main method for killing deer. Then, years later, once I started seeing “hero” pics of bucks I had seen on my property in their photo galleries my guts were ripped out and knew I had been beaten by that lazy tactic. Literally everything I worked for.
Years of habitat work and passing on younger bucks lost. An entire generation of 5 and 6 year old bucks wiped out in a patch of timber not more than 40 yards wide…. in one season. 2 boss buck feeders and tree stands within 20 yards of the feeders. The first year you could easily see the mountain of corn they dumped from the road. It’s all about money… that’s why I think this is going to be difficult to get done, but I’ll try and make that next meeting in Pitt and do my part if I can.
Ray it was before NR hunting so a resident, I assume. It was a property that I had just received permission to hunt on and was in their scouting in late September. I am pretty sure I know who's feeder it was, as he lived across the highway. I can only imagine he walked across the road to hunt it. Once I saw the feeder, I just never went back and ever hunted in there.
I’m 26, so even though I started young, most folks here have been hunting far longer than I. I cut my teeth deer hunting during the era of baiting, and thought that’s how you were supposed to do it.
It didn’t take but a few seasons, and a few deer killed over a pile of corn, for me to realize that was boring as heck. Not to mention how darn expensive it is. You’re fattening up the coons more than anything else.
I haven’t baited in several years. I’d much rather hunt deer the “old fashioned way”, over sign, and natural paths of travel. Over the past couple of seasons, I’ve pretty much ditched the cameras, calls, gear, and gadgets. I just walk out amongst em with my bow, and sit down in a spot that looks good. I’m by no means saying that’s how everyone else needs to hunt, but I do greatly enjoy the simple approach.
I’m 100% in support of the baiting ban, for a number of reasons. I think that the KDWP has finally realized that they’ve been shitting where they eat, and they need to right the ship. They’ve not been on a sustainable path (not just in regard to deer) and they know there’s no denying it at this point. Fortunately, they’ve made some corrective measures as of late, but a baiting ban will be huge, IMO.
I’ve been telling everyone I know that this is coming, and the idea is well received by most hunters I talk to. The time is now!
It's definitely a step in the right direction. I really would like to see the HB on a task force to look at Outfitters happen. They are a thorn in the side of resident hunters.
That went downhill quick. Got a nice PM myself. The party must have started early in New Jersey.
Jeff, I listened to an interview with Sec Loveless not too far back and he said there has been a lot of interest from the outfitters themselves to police their own ranks. Many are tired of the cash only fly by night nonresident guys that make big promises to landowners and don’t follow through. They’d like to see some certification measures once again, but Sec Loveless said the legislature wouldn’t allow that to come from the department. I guess they are working together to create a certification criteria within the outfitters association and that KDWP will likely only advertise for/direct clientele towards businesses who are involved with and qualified through the outfitters association. Apparently the criteria will look very similar to the previous rules KDWP had back in the day. Probably not exactly what you’re looking for, but maybe another step in the right direction.
Ryan glad you are so full of yourself and think that you represent the feelings and opinions of everyone. I could care less that you think I’m a dbag. I absolutely can be at the hand of certain people. I embrace it. A few of you guys on here and you know who you are cannot handle anyone who just might have a different idea or opinion about a topic than yours. Right away they are dumb or what they say is dumb. Even someone who might agree with you. You and some others here are so self absorbed you can’t see it. Again if you want change with baiting or something else etc. and feel so strongly about it go talk to the right people. Arguing with me or others, insulting them because of different opinions won’t fly outside of your comfy Kansas forum.
Expressing differences of opinion and arguing I got no problem with. It’s someone who is anonymous posting pictures of others that is a dbag move. Post up your picture.
By the way, I’ve known Brad Loveless for 20 years. I do express my opinion to the right people.
LOTS of money being left on the table by the state for sure… I especially like that non-res outfitter fee in IL. Local outfitters are one thing, non-res outfitters are a completely different animal.
I would imagine that 50% of the outfitters in Kansas are NR, with many just moving here to capitalize on Outfitting and gaining access to a Kansas tag. They buy the LL then eventually leave. The LL is about as bad as the any season tag and TTags.
Slate quit being a dipshit. Seemed like you had figured out how to be civil but I guess not. Supplemental elk feeding by the government to help them survive an incredibly harsh winter is comparable to rednecks shooting trained deer over 5 bushel feeders in Ks? You are dense.
Cherny your boy jowls said if you feed animals they get nasty CWD and die so that’s a no no feeding those elk. Failure piles for the elk. You support that right. Umm well that’s different because it’s not Kansas and the Sito boys know everything.
No I don’t support supplemental feeding. Prefer to see nature run its course which is similar to you prolly not being able to procreate since you are such a douche you’ve likely never been laid.
Until you guys stops calling other guys names and insulting them I will continue to be a DBag. Ain’t nothing you going to do about it there Patrick. Jump on Kyles band wagon and you will be treated accordingly.
The federal government is doing exactly what guys bitch about in Kansas. Supplemental feeding of animals (failure piles) :-) to keep them on the federal property. It can cause CWD but it’s still being practiced. This is a fact. Why is it ok for the federal government but, not ok for Kansas hunters? Haven’t had an educated answer yet. Just insults. So when you are at the commission meeting and this and other similar examples are brought up how will you answer? Are you just going to call people idiots, dolts, dense. Tell them they never got laid. Meow at them?
They are trying to help them survive when they don’t have enough food to make it thru the winter. Folks here are trying to help them kill big bucks so people think they are cool. Big difference.
I understand that Patrick I agree but, both reasons risk the spread of CWD so they say. CWD is so bad yet the federal government continues the practice risking killing the elk anyway. The step down plan is not working. Remember guys in Kansas are using the CWD argument as a reason to stop baiting. It’s ok for big government right but, not for the average everyday hunter.
Dude let me break it down for you. If you starve to death or are killed for invading someone’s hay shed then CWD doesn’t matter much does it? Deer in Kansas don’t starve to death. You argument is like saying someone in the early 1950s should starve themselves to death to avoid the risk of polio. Let me repeat, deer in Kansas don’t starve to death. They don’t need feeders for food. This is a red herring argument. Try again buddy.
Your point is well taken and would agree with you Patrick. I think the CWD argument is a terrible one. Just like I don’t agree with shooting a whole herd of deer because they might get CWD. The polio analogy is pretty funny though. I will use that one. This argument was brought to me and relayed to you guys. We saw where that went.
Again, this is a person who actually "designed" its own Emoji...do any of you know of another man who's done that? Multiply that by adding a "Hello Kitty" shirt to its Emoji, and he/she sets a confused tone.
They/them have never had anything positive, or substantive, to add here...never will.
It didn't watch the first two hours of the Commissioners/Biologists presentation, so it really can't speak to the topic.
Pretty much anyone can do Photoshop Todd Sodano, but I wonder what the township of Byram would think about one of their officers spending so much time obsessing over another man?
That’s pretty funny. :-)Oh no Kyle you know where I work with a little google search. Call them Kyle. We don’t have any issues with men loving other men. That might be an issue with you but not me.
They feed the elk even when they don't have bad winters,they have feed yards and contracts with what is usually outfitters to haul and feed hay in these feed areas. The other states don't have much on their sites here but at least what they do have is about hunting and not thinking a couple of people are always right.
Randy, I'm not always right...in fact once in 1994 I made a mistake.
We can both think for ourselves, and formulate ideas/opinions. I tend to err on the side of the Biologists, not guys that just want to train deer. While some here just pander to those who post, hoping they'll engage.
Slate I don’t quite understand. Up there above you was telling Jeff that baiting in New Jersey was what caused you to buy land in Kansas to get away from all that mess.
Now you seemed to be messing with a guy that is working tirelessly to end baiting and to make Kansas better.
Again. If another person went and bought land in another state to get away from the baiting then I would think that person would be thrilled to have a guy like Kyle out there doing what he does.
That is a big component to why I bought property yes. There are many.
I’m messing with Kyle really? Did you follow the post at all because Kyle started with me first as he always does.
You really think Kyle should be a spokes person for anything but how to be a complete ass. You been around long enough you see how he treats others here.
Just because I don’t bait doesn’t mean I have to follow his thinking.
Quick note watch your grammar. I see a mistake. Kyle likes to insult others for that also. I’m sure you saw that while I was messing with him.
I know a lot residents in Kansas that bait also. I don’t hate these people because they don’t hunt the way I do. They enjoy doing things differently and if the law changes they will have to make changes which I have no doubt they will. Not everyone that baits is a scumbag hunting over a failure pile. They are not all looking to kill giants but just enjoy the taste of game.
My 9th grade education is something I’ve dealt with my whole life so that part doesn’t bother me much. She says I use double negatives all the time and she gets irritated when I tell her…well it isn’t probably ain’t never gonna stop.
But I think I have a little common sense though and what you seem to be doing here is not adding up. Sounds like you’re losing sight of your goal and what you’re trying to accomplish just because this particular guy talks to people the wrong way.
Yeah I’ve been on here for awhile and right when I got on here years ago I embarrassed myself. Things like that you remember and Jeff and Kyle got to me right away. Remember Jeff saying something about people who baits needs to be neutered. I guess I got a little excited and thought dam…who is this guy. Don’t know if I said it but but I was thinking now if he comes south of the Red River to try and cut my balls off there was going to be a decent chance when he heads back across that his singing was going to have a higher pitch tone than normal. Of course I had some words with Kyle as well but it didn’t take long to know that I was in the wrong.
Probably said it before but I’ve come across quite a few people that talk all nice but inside ain’t quite all that. I’ve never met Kyle but I’ve met and talked with people on here that I have grown to respect and they all say the same thing…that he’s a great person.
But to answer you’re question yeah I was reading and watching this thread. I’ll have to look again but I bet he said something to you like he does to everybody that stands or says something that’s negative for trying to stop the ban of baiting. Doesn’t hurt to have a guy like that on our side…not everybody speaks the same way.
Now every now and then Jeff still gets under my skin with the negativity but I’ve think the man has gone through a lot and that’s not even counting all the changes in Kansas on hunting. So it’s all good.
We have had assholes on the KBA site before, is there a way to take this creep off? Used to happen, does nothing for bowhunting just stirring up crap. Stay on the right coast and hang out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Getting scary around here now. Davie wants to take me off. Davie that ain’t nice. I ain’t going nowhere :-) I already bought up some of your Kansas land. Looking to get some more :-)
What it all boils down to though if you really have put some serious thought into this is that Kansas would be a lot better off if bait was banned. I’m not saying this because somebody else is saying it either. About 5 years ago I’m not sure if I would said that but after being there awhile and really paying attention and giving it some thought it’s definitely the best move for just about everybody.
Be Still LMAO!!!!!!! I have changed my stance on neutering. Those that bait must have already been neutered. Baiting and flying that rainbow flag seem to go together. I just like to get a rise out of people and so does Kyle. All in fun.
Randy I think somebody up above asked someone a few of the negatives that would come with the baiting ban but that question didn’t get answered. I wouldn’t mind hearing some of those.
I've had two people send me the link to this 12 minute infomercial from "GB feeds" out of Hays Ks??? on why banning baiting isn't a good idea. He's selling feed, supplements so he definitely has an axe to grind but he questions biologists opinions who don't want baiting and possible backfire consequences to local economies.
"To the game warden, you already don't have enough time in your day and are spread too thin to handle the current poaching and wildlife violations happening in Kansas. How are you going to enforce this? And when you don't, as a law abiding hunter, how is it fair when the neighboring hunter is still feeding deer and I can't?"
There are some states Michigan being one of them that makes an exception to baiting for handicapped hunters. Example people in wheelchairs and people legally blind. It’s a good reference. If used as an argument.
If I’m not mistaken didn’t that other outfitter talk something about the Kansas economy. There is some decent outfitters I guess…I finally met one last time I was up there that I’ve been wanting to meet. He’s homegrown and I really like him for the short time I was around him. So we better not lump them altogether but I think for the most part most of them pay the landowner very little.
I met a new landowner awhile back that decided for the first time to lease his place of about 300 hundred something acres. Of course it was an outfitter and ended up telling me the guy was going to pay him around $2,000. Decent money but the outfitter told him there was enough spots for 3 or 4 guys. That’s what he told him so you know how that story goes he might put more. Just do the math on 4 guys though say around $4,000 to $5,000 per man. You don’t have to be smart on figuring out who’s making the money. It’s not necessarily the state or the landowner. Not only that then the guy was probably going to shoot way too many bucks off that property. This is not a property I would say that’s overloaded with deer I must add.
If that guy has the potential to make that much off of one small property just imagine what he’s making if he has about 20 to 30 thousand acres. I’m not really a jealous kind of guy about other people making good money but I do care about the wildlife up there and corn and outfitters is hurting it up there.
Just a few select people in Kansas making money out of all the other thousands of people up there ain’t really helping the economy up there.
I didn’t see a quote from Matt. However, it appears that he did give that GB Feeds Facebook message a “thumbs up” if it was indeed him. Assume it was him since it appears to be tied to his job and I am sure he has his own good reasons for liking that specific GB Feeds Facebook message.
I wouldnt assume Matt is opposed to a baiting ban. I have seen some things he’s written on another post and it seems he’s just questioning whether they are using the right motivation to persuade the public that it’s necessary. Guess he can speak for himself. I will say the GB dude openly admits it creates an unfair advantage to bait vs people who don’t. Also the whole “how will you ever enforce it argument” always cracks me up.
Cherney, I for one really would like to know how they are going to enforce this… I believe that’s a legitimate concern.
I have read a few articles in regards to law enforcement overstepping their authority… and that bothers me. I have nothing to hide, but privacy is extremely important to me. I don’t like the thought that someone can just walk your property because they “assume” you are baiting.
People illegally use cell cams to aid in killing animals constantly in this state. It’s still against the law to do so as it should be but it’s hard to enforce.
“The terms probable cause and reasonable suspicion are often confused and misused. While both have to do with a police officer's overall impression of a situation, the two terms have different repercussions on a person's rights, the proper protocol and the outcome of the situation.
Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed. The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a crime has most likely been committed.”
I would hope that wardens wouldn’t enter private property on reasonable suspicion… however if they can see your feeder or corn pile on the satellite image that might be probable cause
They would enforce just like they enforce all the regulations. It will be difficult, just like everything else. Which is why very few that violate game laws are ever caught. But you have to have laws in place. When someone sees a semi truck hauling corn into a section, that is a pretty good indicator that someone is baiting. We see that quite frequently out here. They catch them in other states.
Yes if they suspect someone is hunting,fishing or trapping they can enter.Should they I don't believe so as I have had them drive across my crops just because they knew the river was over that way.The whole feeding thing will never be about what a biologist says.As I mentioned 37 states still allow it.If really worried about a deer catching something because they are being fed supplemental feed then why would a state only allow it up until 30 days prior to hunting season?A couple of you have your views and lord knows we have heard them and all the name calling for months.Go to the state and tell them and let bowsite get back to bowhunting.
Randy I can’t see that being legal for them to just drive over your crops unless there was some crazy emergency. No one can just destroy one’s property. They still have rules and laws to follow. I don’t care what branch of law enforcement they are. Yes they have a little more leeway with certain things.
I’ve caught that too Randy and if any state is thinking about CWD and allow that type of feeding before season then that is wrong. Doesn’t mean it causes us to do the wrong thing. I know some states ban feeding for the purpose of sportsmanship though too which I’m not just real big into the sportsman thing but that’s not important now.
Aflotoxin Ray. That's my argument. After everything I have read, I really feel that this is what has happened to turkeys. Cutting out the game tag and limiting NR to a draw vs over the counter won't help the turkey population at all. If the state wants to see turkeys bounce back there is only one option. You can't bait turkeys, you can't bait waterfowl, you can't bait anything but deer. To continue to allow baiting of deer is pure ignorance and only about financial benefit to outfitters and those selling feeders and grain. Its the only argument for it. Conservation should be about what is best for wildlife, not about what is best for man and his ability to kill a single species. The state and most hunters are only focused on deer and that is bad biology.
He's talking about enforcement Jeff, I think everyone here agrees it needs to go away.
Sure it will be hard to enforce, but as said so are other regulations when dealing with cheaters. I can promise you this, I'll turn in every damn person I know or see using bait in a heartbeat...with evidence.
Yup it will be business as usual for the Fish and Game officers. If the violation is called in by a complainant or suspected by them they will act accordingly.
This argument is not a good one. Every law enforcement agency in the country is under staffed. This never prevents the government from creating new laws to enforce.
We weren't understaffed until 1995. Now wardens can't keep up with all the regulations. Back in Jan. the warden here told me they only had one gal to monitor the illegal license sales and she was new just learning the ropes. It's just a shame that things were allowed to go this far south in such a short time. An epic failure to take something that worked so well and to completely change everything. We had the greatest model of deer management in the U.S and the commissioners and legislature completely caved and gave in.
Closed caption....now that is a reach. I was actually throwing you a bone by responding to your thread as I got a chuckle out of your Jerry, Jerry reference....do you not know what this symbol :?) means?
According to what's known as the “Open Fields Doctrine” wardens are authorized to enter private property without a warrant. They can do this to regulate and manage the publicly owned resources, which are fish, game, and wildlife.
Also rewards offered for turning in baiters is a driving force along with stiff penalties, fines. I know alot of guys who hate that their neighbor baits across the fence. So take the chance and bait or just hunt.
Matte is correct. Law enforcement can enter the property even without probable cause. They can even set up cameras to monitor activity on the property. It’s a terrible ruling watering down your fourth amendment right. I believe there are only 5 states that don’t recognize this and have their own case law. Kansas is not one of them. This does not allow them to destroy one’s crops as mentioned before. Again wardens are not going to be walking everyone’s property looking for bait piles but, if there is complainant reporting a violation they can enter your property.
This post strikes home. We had 13 hens all Spring and hoped to see a bunch this summer as they normally hang out. I have seen one hen with no younglings. I hope they are around and just not on my side of the fence.
Patrick I don’t think it’s a matter of doing something wrong. The thinking is it’s my property and no one should be on it. Again I don’t think any game warden wakes up in the morning and says let me go trample through a land owners property today when there is absolutely no reason. All the cases that I know of there has been good reason.
Kinda what I’m getting at. I don’t think the vast majority of game wardens would do it without probably cause because they wouldn’t want it done to them.
Ray not much you can do about it. I don’t think it’s really something you have to worry about. The law has been in effect for a very long time. I’m assuming you have never seen a warden just walking around your property to date. If baiting becomes illegal nothing will change. Most hunters will follow the law. Violators if caught will have to deal with the consequences like any other violation. I don’t think there is going to be some baiting task force walking everyone’s property. Fish and game have less than 90 law enforcement officers and Kansas is a big state.
Not sure I agree Slate, but my concern lies more with neighbors/outfitters using this, more than game wardens abusing it. My mind always plays the devils advocate.
I hope this baiting ban gets done quickly, people follow the law, and it’s enforced ethically.
Well yeah, I understand that. That is common knowledge. Wardens aren’t supposed to be able to either.
But what’s going to keep your neighbor from making a complaint, warden goes in, finds nothing, but runs every buck out of your land in the middle of November or during rifle season.
I know, I know..,. Worst case scenario, but I’d like to see if there will be any safe guards in place to keep this from being abused.
Kyle is right. Drones are the future of law enforcement surveillance. I can fly over to the next county in no time and see more ground, but the costs and risks are far more than a drone.
You hear a rifle shot right at dusk during archery deer season. Up goes the drone with thermal capabilities. Instantly you see a motionless heat sig being approached by. That will be the story line.
I don't necessarily like it either Ray, but it's reality and we have to live in that. Think about it for a minute...we have very few GW's right now. They are over worked, and underpaid, but the ones I've dealt with(four over the last three years) have been some of the best kind of folks you could encounter...and quit isn't in their vocabulary.
If we could hire a few kids out of high school/other to run drones from their basements, or wherever, even as "ride alongs" it might lessen the workload on these guys. Besides, look around at the kids these days, what the hell else are they going to do? Make emoji's with Hello Kitty shirts FFS?
There was a friend of a friend that asked to use my place to run his drone 3 or 4 years ago. He quickly got tired of my 80 acres and flew it over to the highway a few miles away. When he was done, he hit 'return' and it autopiloted itself back to him. He said he could sit in his house in Benton and fly it to Towanda and back without ever leaving the house. From what I've seen as limiting factors are battery life and most will not fly very far. The scary part is, there are codes you can program them with to fly above their ceiling, which makes them a danger to aircraft. There is an elk hunting video on Youtube of a pair of DIY hunters that hiked miles back into a basin in CO and scouted a big herd of elk. As they were sitting there in the stillness of the morning, a drone zips by them headed towards the herd. The next morning, they find themselves contending with another hunter that is right on the herd but spooks them and the law abiding guys end up shooting a bull. I fear poachers will use these just as much as wardens in the future. Seems like everything the wardens used to ticket for is now legal : .223 caliber, kids under 14, any centerfire cartridge, carrying pistols in bow season, night vision on predators, silencers....the list goes on.
Yeah, I realize it’s necessary to fight fire with fire and use any means necessary to catch a criminal. And the understaffed department needs all the help they can get.
I guess I had never thought about sitting in my tree and then all of a sudden a drone flies over head that belongs to KDWP. I’ve had visions of neighbors trying it and me shooting it out of the sky:-)
Guess it’ll get to the point you’ll have to wear a badge and the drone can scan your license number.
Technology is here to stay… when I’m in the woods I try and get as far from it as I can, but times are a changin’ faster than this fool sometimes likes.
Alright Slate I’m sorry man I just gotta ask and hope I don’t hurt your feelings too much.
Why did you make a cartoon of yourself? I asked Erica a little while ago if men do that now a days and she hesitated before she said well…and the answer she gave me led me to believe it was more of a woman thing. She said she made one for herself a long time ago and I thought you might might like to see it since you seem to be in that kind of thing. I told her maybe men in New Jersey do that kind of stuff.
Also what’s with the cat on the shirt? Sito said something about “Hello Kitty”. She said that used to be some kind of TV cartoon show or something back in the day. Are you a big fan of that show or something or do you just like cats?
No big deal really but I guess we’re kind of curious. You said something about buying some land so I thought maybe you were older than a kid and this is another thing that just doesn’t make sense really. Or maybe that’s how y’all roll up there in New Jersey and if that’s the case I guess that’s just how y’all are.
I don't agree that Aflotoxin had anything to do with the turkey decline in my area.I didn't have corn within miles of my place for several years before or after the decline.I went from 200 turkeys to almost 0 in one year.We found dead and dying turkeys while shed hunting.I called the KW&P and they said they didn't know anything about it.I also talked to some guys in Butler county that shed hunt and saw the same thing.Corn has to be tested before it's sold if it reaches a certain level because they can't feed to anything.
Randy, I’m sure you know, aflotoxin toxin in corn is caused by drought stress when corn is growing. It grows further after being harvested if warm temperatures and certain levels of moisture exist. So, feed piles of corn can provide a diet of aflo toxin containing corn. And waste corn from harvest processes also provide the same aflo toxin diet. So if there are corn field in the area, and aflo toxin is present in the crop, “wild life is eating aflo toxin corn, period.” I bow hunted turkeys for many years in South Dakota and took 1-3 birds every year. There was some corn fields in the area. Baiting of deer and turkeys was not legal. When I started hunting turkeys there, I often saw up to 100 birds a day. But the population seemed to be on a steady decline. Last year the guy I hunt with in South Dakota told me to not come hunting because the population is very low. I’ve read that turkey populations have really dropped in many areas of the country. I do not know why, but I sure hope the cause is determined and the population increased.
Randy and Dale I hear ya and I respect what y’all have observed. I sometimes don’t necessarily trust people so I go off a lot of of what my eyes and nose tells me.
I still haven’t heard though some legitimate reasoning on when this baiting ban gets put in place how it’s going to affect wildlife in any negative way. Sometimes in these situations you got to weigh the pros and cons. There’s plenty of question marks on baiting but hardly any on not baiting.
I like Jeff’s stance on conservation of wildlife. We get wrapped up on the here and now and what we get out of it rather than looking what’s good for the wildlife. I know there is some people that is hungry in this world but I think for the most part a lot of us on this bowsite could go without a few meals and wouldn’t hurt us one bit. Most of us hunt for a different reason than what it was originally was. We need to come together and start looking for the future of our kids and grandkids.
Kansas still has a lot of hope if they straighten out the ship a bit and make some changes. Right now it seems it’s on a path to a rocky shoreline.
Dale you can take the best corn in the world and pile it up, and the levels become toxic in just a few days. I posted an article to you about last winter when we had the same conversation. You can't put corn in a pile and have any positive outcome for wildlife.
My point is, turkeys and wildlife are and have been eating aflo toxin contaminated corn from corn fields for decades or longer. And they have been eating aflo toxin contaminated corn from feeders/piles where it’s allowed, for decades. All of a sudden the turkey population is in a steep decline in states where there is baiting, and in states where baiting is not allowed. Banning the baiting of turkeys in South Dakota and Nebraska won’t help the rapidly declining turkey population, cause there’s no baiting to ban. So, help us with the logic of why all of a sudden the turkey population declining, in states where baiting is allowed and where baiting is not allowed. I do not have the answer to the declining turkey population.
Man oh man...what a time to get sucked back into bowsite:) I took the 45 minutes or more to read the entire thread before responding, but admittedly didn't read every link or watch every video yet.
I could go on so many tangents after reading this thread, but I will do my best to refrain. That said, I apologize upfront for my long winded response.
First off, it seems a post was deleted about something I said somewhere on facebook so I have no clue what that referenced. In the past I was strongly opposed to baiting, and very vocal about it. Over time I became apathetic, and frankly much less critical, primarily because some of my best friends, and best hunters I know hunted over bait. I admittedly neutered myself and have hunted over corn many times over the past several years. However, I hadn't killed a buck until this past December. It wasn't for lack of trying to kill him by actually 'hunting' throughout the season, but it never came together:)
I preface my comments by that history so those that don't know me understand a little about where I am coming from. Back to the comments. I liked Greg's post. Greg has killed some Giants and is a good dude. He may have killed some over bait, but he sure as heck didn't kill them all over bait and is a good hunter. That is neither here nor there and has nothing to do with my thoughts on the current discussion. I try to support my friends in their endeavors regardless of what that may be.
To the issue at hand. I am still in favor of a feeding/supplement ban for the right reasons. For me, CWD is not that reason. KDWP had a golden opportunity to ban it when CWD was found in Kansas. At least in counties where CWD was found, and they didn't do it. Now, many years later we are Texas north with feeders and box blinds everywhere. If slowing the spread of CWD is the main reason for the change I find it difficult to support at this point since the damage has already been done.
Another part of that is because for me CWD feels like 'Covid' of the deer world. Listen to yourselves talking about 'trusting the science' I almost thought Fauci and the media were part of this thread. Ya, you are still my buddy if you said that, just like I am still your buddy even though I used a failure pile:) Truth be told, one of my good friends was studying CWD when we were in college over 20 years ago and there is still a lot of unknown factors about the disease. It has been around for a LONG time in some states yet they still have deer. Also, when I have questioned higher authorities than I on the subject about why we aren't finding piles of dead deer in areas of KS where CWD has become common I have yet to hear a good answer. I will digress on that note and get back to the topic at hand.
I think focusing on the entire picture and how feeding sites can be detrimental to all wildlife is something most of us should be able to get behind. I will take it a step further and agree with Jeff, that it has changed how people hunt and impacted deer and other wildlife movements, lead to more leasing by residents and non residents, and contributed to more outfitters. It completely changed the game imo over the years. I know people that are adamantly opposed to hunting over bait but still feed because they feel if they don't all the deer will be on the neighbors. Hard to argue with that they have witnessed over time. It is impossible to know if leasing and outfitting would have grown exponentially without bait. It likely would have, but it definitely helped, and also tied up land that would be mediocre at best if it wasn't for the ability to attract deer by using feed.
Many want to use enforcement woes as a reason to not do it. Why have any laws then? People speed, drink and drive, don't wear seatbelts, etc every day but those laws are still on the books. Same can be said for many hunting regulations. I do think it will get ugly for the first few years with people trespassing when they think the neighbors are baiting. I hope I am wrong on that part, and cell cams may deter many from doing that, but I think it will still happen and hunters will be the best informants ever. The wardens will still be overworked chasing leads, but that isn't a reason NOT to make the change if it truly is the best thing for Kansas wildlife.
As others have mentioned, I commend KDWP staff for taking a stand. I just wish it would have happened years ago when they had the chance. I also commend people like Greg with GB feeds for standing up for what they believe in and getting involved. As much as people for the change dislike his message, you can't argue that he is well spoken and prepared.
Regardless of the side you are on, take the time to call the commissioners and talk with them. Call Levi and other biologists and talk with them and learn about their reasons for taking on this monumental task. Hell, even call the Game Wardens and get their take. I guarantee you will hear different sides even within the department and something may trigger you to think differently than you did before.
Now back to regular scheduled programming of insulting one another:) If you made it this far, thanks for your time!
Thanks Matt for letting us know that you’re for the bait ban.
As for the GB Feed guy…I’m sure he’s a great guy and that’s how he feeds his family but I’m sure he can find another job. He might have to move to Texas:?)
Well, Ive got a feeder on the north 25 yards from the fence, Ive got two on the south <50 yards off the fence. Ive got 1 on the east at about 75 yards from the fence. Of course these are just what I can see from my side. Far as I can see there is no feeder on my west and the best property as far as quantities of deer is west (and mine). Funny thing is the western neighbour and I both want way more deer murdered and those bait stations don't kill anything but bucks, and the day after the season ends the feeders go empty for the season when deer might actually need some chow in their hard times.
This is just a local snapshot and I don't pretend to know what goes on out of my sight but I would guess it is pretty typical based on retail sales of bait, and gossip I hear about big bucks pics taken over bait piles.
I do chuckle when apparently its a Kansas thing to bitch about how much you spend on corn to put in a pile for deer to eat. I never know if they are bitchin or braggin and im not sure if they know either.
I do know that when your debate points devolve to "its for the children" or "it's un-enforcable" you have officially lost the debate. The baiters use both with bonus points for "your illegal feeders will be worthless and you won't even be able to sell them". That was a new twist.
This boils down to money and money is on the bait side. Money wins deer lose, all the rest is just noise.
I started trying a different way of hunting the last few years but there is still a few places up there I got to take a few feeders off this summer. Don’t feel right to sell them to other Kansas folk…that would be dirty money. Thought about calling and trying to get permission to blow one up. Let Crested or Sito put it on YouTube and start something going like “Blowing up Kansas for Good”. Maybe raise a few dollars for the KBA. Or we could all take them to Texas here and sell them and give all the profits to KBA.
I was talking to an Iowa game warden back when I was up there last December. Heard there was a bill coming up about changing where if an NR bought 80 acres or more in Iowa they get a tag. I thought it was a new thing. Nope he or the realtor said that gets brought up every year but the Iowa Bowhunters Association shoots it down every time.
Now wouldn’t it be nice if the KBA could grow into that kind of power. You know the association that actually cares about the future of wildlife in Kansas.
DO NOT put the tannerite in the feeder! You'll just turn it into shrapnel. Wouldn't that be a good one; "how'd you loose your eye man?" "blowing up corn feeders."
Now that you got me thinking about explosions and whatnot... what a great way to plant a plot! Lay a bag or two of seed on 5lbs of tannerite and let her rip. Probably get pretty even seed distribution, and maybe some good seed/soil contact. Thanks for the ideas, you guys are great!
You onto something Cat…you could call it “Blow and Mow”. No what I was thinking of doing was sitting a propane bottle inside of a plastic feeder and getting back about 400 yards or so and shooting through the feeder with a 50 Cal.
Never have seen it done personally but heard about somebody doing it on a ranch down here. Now it wasn’t sitting inside a feeder of course but says it makes a pretty good boom and stuff flies pretty high.
Mike…kind of looks like a yellow tick to me? Anyway, I knew you couldn’t resist showing that stanky thing off (even if in sideways mode). Do birds try to nest in it? Does it conveniently provide you a second breakfast, lunch & dinner? Shall I organize an event to buy you some new razors…..we could call it a fund-razor? Looks to me like you or Erica have been manicuring it along the edges as I would have guessed it to be near Oakridge Boy length by now based on the growth I saw in April.
Let me know how much one of those shirts will cost me and I’ll buy one. However, I have one request that on the back (in either red or yellow lettering) that it says “KS Statewide Baiting Ban….Vote “YES!” If 100% Cotton, I’ll need a XXL please.
Thanks Matt…I’m glad you like my beard:?) Jason is just jealous. Now that you mentioned that it does look a tick but I’ll let you tell her that. We’ll fix that with 2 shadows in the middle to make it look more like a corn. This was a rushed operation.
Yes I do get some food caught up in it and she gets embarrassed when she has to motion for me to wipe it off in public:?)
Sorry for the delay but a crazy thing happened earlier…true story. Right before dark when she was in the middle of making the 2nd shirt I told her to stop and let’s go let Ella run. There’s 5 acres down at the river we go to in the evening so Ella can get some energy out. This time halfway down the hill she’s going nuts and when we stop at the bottom she flies like a bullet…that’s normal…up the hill. Later she’s starts barking and won’t come back so I go up and there’s a doe hanging on the fence with one of her front legs hung at the top. Now I specifically built this one without the top bob wire at the top so this wouldn’t happen. Had to grab Ella cause she won’t stop barking and won’t listen to me…that’s normal…and start running down the hill carrying her to the truck.
Find some wire cutters in the truck and I can tell by Erica’s exaggerated breathing she thinks I’m driving too fast up the hill. Try to pull up close enough to get the headlights on the deer but too many trees so got to stop. Tell Erica to get out but she doesn’t listen at first…that’s normal… until I tell her she has no choice.
Going through the tall weeds with her sandals on…she’s deathly afraid of snakes…she wants to know why she has to come. When I tell her I wanted her to video me freeing and saving the deer she gets mad again. Thought since I was still wearing my, Stop The Madness, shirt it would have been a pretty cool thing…you know since us rednecks sometimes build fences around feeders.
About that time I realize the deer has somehow freed herself so Erica gets mad at me again when I snatch the phone which was her only light source to take a pic of the fence.
Anyways she was still kind enough to finish the 2nd shirt when we got home. I think she did a good job and I’m sure Kansas will have her back and do the right thing.
Alright…gosh dang it Crested fix this pic for me. This thing wants to keep posting upside down just like that deer was hanging awhile ago. I done tried editing and twirling it around but it ain’t doing nothing.
This one was surprisingly staying real calm especially after just getting caught. She stirred a little when I got close to get Ella away but for the most part she was being pretty still. With those cutters though I wasn’t going to take a chance on her kicking me if she would have still been there. I could have repaired that fence.
Remember when I was younger though stopping to help a small buck in a fence. Didn’t have no cutters and remembering being nervous about grabbing him but he did the same way you talked about. Just calmed down after I grabbed him and held tight. Luckily another guy had pulled over and he freed the wire but it didn’t turn out good. Once loose he had a broken leg and the guy had to shoot him with his pistol.
You mean it looks like a "seed"tick right crested?
Great story bestill! I can picture both of your ladies not letting you live this one down. Ella's probably going straight to that spot ever night for the rest of her life, and the other one will have you sleeping in not just a different room... but likely a different structure!
Cat that was pretty slick what you did saying “OOPS” like you didn’t mean to do that. If I could be fixed I sure wouldn’t want him to be the one doing the fixin:?)
Kyle these were rushed and I didn’t necessarily like the red glitter but she only had one plain red sheet yesterday evening. I’m sure y’all have better ideas so just send it to her and she’ll make plenty of shirts and I’ll drop them off on my way through.
Alright I’m still waiting on some septic permits again today but I can’t sit here and have fun with y’all again like yesterday. I got to go find something else to do.
Is there any chance you will tell us who the taxidermist is that did this one? I realize you might want to keep it a secret as everyone would want to use him. The neck detail is amazing!!!!
Tom I took this pic so this deer was in the background. I seen it advertised up there about 2 or 3 years ago in an auction so I told a friend of mine up there if he happened to go there to buy it for me. It’s so ugly but there is something about it that I like. If I remember right I want to say it was in Portis, Kansas.
I keep hoping one of y’all up there might recognize and remembered who shot it or something. Sure wish I knew the story behind it and If I ever got that lucky I think I would make a plaque made underneath detailing the hunt.
But yeah since it’s very old and more than likely shot in Kansas thought it kind of fit in what we’re doing here. Those were probably the good ole days up there.
Thornton I’ll make sure to tell her that. What size you want?
We’re not accepting any money for just a few shirts. Lol now if she starts making hundreds or thousands of shirts we might have to think of something but we’re good for now. Just make sure you wear it around for people to see at all the important places and that’ll be payment enough. Go in JB feeds store wearing it:?)
Quinn- I can actually wear a medium just fine as an undershirt, but I prefer my clothing loose. I'm sorry I just figured the rest of you is fat since you have saggy jowls .
The baiters are working up a lather, but they know it's the right thing to do. Wish I could make it to the Aug meeting, I think it's gonna be a full house.
Also, I hate to be negative. But there is no way this is getting banned. No way. I come to that conclusion based off the fact they are holding off the vote. This’ll drag out and die a slow “death by committee”.
The pro baiters are likely going to outnumber hunters 3 to 1… and the commission isn’t going to fall on that sword.
I'm sure the folks in other states that have eliminated baiting had the same thoughts Ray, but the right decision was made nonetheless. Search "Kansas baiting" on FB and you'll see lots of support for banning the practice, maybe not as much as the comments against it...but those are all from feed companies/outfitters/lesser men.
There was never a vote scheduled for the August meeting, that's just a bunch of illiterates spreading rumor...none of which have taken the time to listen to the presentations or even look at the KDWP's plan.
Don’t discuss your tactics on here cause like Dave said the whole world is on here but if y’all want it bad enough get off your tails and do something about it. It’s 2023 and y’all have a legitimate shot of getting it done but if y’all just sit there and be negative…well y’all just might end up with negative results.
Find their trails and stay ahead of em while keeping the wind right…you do that and they won’t see it coming. I have faith y’all will get it done.
I put a lot of time and effort into the xbow debate. Not as much as others, but enough to give me the right to gripe about it. This might be different, but my experience from that has really soured my opinion on the whole process.
I get that, it was draining, and big money lobbyists will be involved this time too. The state has gotten itself into one helluva mess, and no matter what they decide, we as outdoor sportsmen have lost.
I'm pretty sure Waddell and Tbone have their lifetime licenses now. I much prefer that they make LL holders that live out of state go through the draw before they ban baiting. The state got into a mess in 1995. This is a small issue compared to allowing NR's in. I'm 100% against baiting but to be honest, I really don't care about bowhunting anymore. It has sucked ever since they allowed NR hunting.
