Informational forum
Kansas
Here we go...and I can't make this one either dangit. Please go if you can and represent sportsmen/women of KS. The baiters, cheaters, outfitters will surely come out in droves.
Sounds like it will be recorded and on their YouTube shortly after.
The press release reads that it will focus on disease transmission. Curious if each one of these will have a different theme/presenters or if that’s the angle they’re focusing on.
Wonder who their speakers are?
This was brought up towards the end of the commission meeting. Sounds like speakers will consist of department biologists and cover a “30,000 foot overview” on the effects of baiting for all wildlife. It will be interactive with Q&A time and a survey. It sounds like the survey and feedback from the meetings will be presented to the commission.
Hays and Wichita were mentioned as two other sites.
The Science Of CWD (From Current Scientific Knowledge About CWD, 2018, Donald S. Davis, PhD; Kenneth Waldrup, DVM, PhD; Greg Stewart, DVM, PhD; and James Kroll, PhD)
Another excellent CWD researcher Dr. Nicholas J. Haley (et al.) published an article in the Journal of Virology 2011. “Detection of Chronic Wasting Disease Prions in Salivary, Urinary, and Intestinal Tissues of Deer: Potential Mechanisms of Prion Shedding and Transmission.”
That investigation showed that prions are shed in very low numbers in feces and urine and could only be detected by special amplification methods (serial protein misfolding cyclic amplification or sPMCA) which result in a million fold concentration of the prions to allow detention.
More recently Dr. Haley ranked the infective potential of various bodily fluids in relation to potential CWD transmission. They are ranked as follows from highest to lowest in terms of CWD prions present.
Brain Carcass Lymphoid Tissue Deboned Meat Digestive Tissue Blood Saliva Feces Urine – takes 33,000 gallons of infected urine to equal 1gm of infected brain.
Unfortunately public policy often is made even in the face of published science. Urine lure bans commonly are imposed by State wildlife agencies, but a quote from Dr. Haley (who did the research) is “The Chance of Bottled Urine Transmitting CWD Is Virtually Zero” and that puts things into prospective. (Saliva Feces and urine at the bottom of the list.)
The Science Of CWD (From Current Scientific Knowledge About CWD, 2018, Donald S. Davis, PhD; Kenneth Waldrup, DVM, PhD; Greg Stewart, DVM, PhD; and James Kroll, PhD)
Another excellent CWD researcher Dr. Nicholas J. Haley (et al.) published an article in the Journal of Virology 2011. “Detection of Chronic Wasting Disease Prions in Salivary, Urinary, and Intestinal Tissues of Deer: Potential Mechanisms of Prion Shedding and Transmission.”
That investigation showed that prions are shed in very low numbers in feces and urine and could only be detected by special amplification methods (serial protein misfolding cyclic amplification or sPMCA) which result in a million fold concentration of the prions to allow detention.
More recently Dr. Haley ranked the infective potential of various bodily fluids in relation to potential CWD transmission. They are ranked as follows from highest to lowest in terms of CWD prions present.
Brain Carcass Lymphoid Tissue Deboned Meat Digestive Tissue Blood Saliva Feces Urine – takes 33,000 gallons of infected urine to equal 1gm of infected brain.
Unfortunately public policy often is made even in the face of published science. Urine lure bans commonly are imposed by State wildlife agencies, but a quote from Dr. Haley (who did the research) is “The Chance of Bottled Urine Transmitting CWD Is Virtually Zero” and that puts things into prospective. (Saliva Feces and urine at the bottom of the list.)
From 2011? Watch the presentation given at the Commission meeting June 22, 2023...your data is no longer valid. You worry about MN, we'll take care of KS.
The Science Of CWD (From Current Scientific Knowledge About CWD, 2018, Donald S. Davis, PhD; Kenneth Waldrup, DVM, PhD; Greg Stewart, DVM, PhD; and James Kroll, PhD)
Since CWD primarily is a frequency dependent disease in wild deer instead of a density dependent disease, and the benefits of supplemental feeding in most cases far outweigh any possible problems associated with crowding. There is no published scientific data regarding the risk of CWD transmission associated with supplemental feed.
Your data is biased, go to link and educate yourself.
This was just published last month here. Starting to hear a lot of it here lately in high fences and they’re worried about the high densities in controlled areas. So far they haven’t really started doing too much testing in the wild down here yet. I do know out west last year we seen a lot less deer that we’re used to seeing.
Reading obviously isn't your strong suit
Biased to fit your agenda ?
“and the benefits of supplemental feeding in most cases far outweigh any possible problems associated with crowding”
Please explain these benefits Backus. I’m genuinely curious what the benefits of supplemental feeding are for Kansas deer.
Hey Cherney. There is a difference between supplemental feeding and baiting. Supplemental feeding can provide early nutrition between growing seasons of crops and green plants in the spring. At the same time it could be beneficial for does lacking nutrients bringing new fawn onto the landscape resulting in healthier fawns. Post rut recovery is always a time when bucks need to replenish their bodies with nutrients and food. There is a difference between bait piles and true supplemental feeding. I think we could agree bait piles do little for supplementing deer nutrient requirements in October and November. The statement above is more related to the spread of disease associated with bait piles and supplemental feeding. I think the jury is still out on CWD spread. I have a feeling your side has a major ax to grind opposing supplemental feeding and deer baiting as an effort to get rid of non resident deer hunting numbers with the hope of making more leased land available for residents to hunt. CWD is a back seat driver in your fight to lower non resident competition. Let’s say the state bands baiting and the hunter numbers keep growing and the leases continue. I suspect you would still be complaining. I think many Kansas landowners and I know a few, won’t be very receptive to open their lands to residents after losing $30-40 an acre lease money. Can’t we just all get along! Ha. Best of luck hunting in a great whitetail state.
Hey Cherney. There is a difference between supplemental feeding and baiting. Supplemental feeding can provide early nutrition between growing seasons of crops and green plants in the spring. At the same time it could be beneficial for does lacking nutrients bringing new fawn onto the landscape resulting in healthier fawns. Post rut recovery is always a time when bucks need to replenish their bodies with nutrients and food. There is a difference between bait piles and true supplemental feeding. I think we could agree bait piles do little for supplementing deer nutrient requirements in October and November. The statement above is more related to the spread of disease associated with bait piles and supplemental feeding. I think the jury is still out on CWD spread. I have a feeling your side has a major ax to grind opposing supplemental feeding and deer baiting as an effort to get rid of non resident deer hunting numbers with the hope of making more leased land available for residents to hunt. CWD is a back seat driver in your fight to lower non resident competition. Let’s say the state bands baiting and the hunter numbers keep growing and the leases continue. I suspect you would still be complaining. I think many Kansas landowners and I know a few, won’t be very receptive to open their lands to residents after losing $30-40 an acre lease money. Can’t we just all get along! Ha. Best of luck hunting in a great whitetail state.
I would support off season supplements if there is science to suggest there are benefits to it that outweigh any negatives
Whitetails are overgrown rats. They can survive and thrive almost anywhere. Populations have exploded over the last half century largely before “supplemental” feed became a thing. There are other species in much greater need of help and bait sites have been shown to be a negative to many of those. It’s not hard unless you’re brainwashed by the biologists and folks selling these feeds. They don’t need it.
Whitetails have been supplementing their own feeding from what nature provides them and doing it very well, long before modern day supplements were provided them by humans. Does your supplemental feeding help them? Maybe, slightly, but you can't prove it. I'm not convinced supplemental feeding/baiting helps spread CWD, but you can't say supplemental feeding is beneficial to deer. I know you used can and could, but others have promoted that it does help. Especially at the commission meetings and online. Also, whether actually using supplemental feed, or corn, it doesn't really make any difference to the deer, it's still baiting if you hunt anywhere near that location.
Are you saying that they should prohibit food plots or maybe you can't sit on a crop field if a deer might walk out within 100 yards of you.Or wait you can't sit by a scrape or trail either because a deer is more likely to travel those areas.We will have to start cutting licking branches off every few days now also as they found prions at rates I bet are higher than at feeders.If you don't bait it doesn't effect you.
lol...if you don't poach then poaching is fine?
Supplemental feeding in Kansas is a joke, it’s not needed at all for the health of the herd. I love planting plots, it makes me feel good to see deer feeding in them, but they don’t need it.
What does poaching have to do with anything.
Maybe in Minnesota in a hard winter it might apply but not in Kansas.
You said if you don’t bait it doesn’t affect you…. By that logic if you don’t poach it doesn’t affect you
You can't train a deer to come to any of those other things Randy, you just can't get it can you?
It's all there 24 hours a day,I think you are the one that can't get it.I bet I saw more deer in my beans last night than were at a feeder within a mile of me.
Then that just proves we don't need feeders right?
Like I have said numerous times,it doesn't matter to me.I just don't agree with your holier than thou attitude against everyone thats not in your corner, no matter what the subject.I don't really think you give a rats butt about if feeding hurts the herd because no one can prove it does.I think it's just your high horse you are riding at the moment so good luck with all your future endeavors.
I'm sorry if you cannot read, or understand, the numerous studies proving the detrimental effects of baiting. I'm sorry if you can't see what baiting has done to our hunting heritage. I'm sorry that you and others can't just hunt, I really think you'd enjoy it.
Holier than thou,and you know nothing about how I hunt.
Much less holy than you might imagine, and if there's a feeder involved it ain't huntin.
To say someone hunting on land who doesn't bait is not impacted negatively by neighbors that shoot deer near feeders on their properties is totally wrong. Over the past 5 years I've seen the number of quality, older bucks drop from 7-10 per year, to 1, maybe 2. What's changed? I've got guys from Texas and OK hunting a couple hundred acres south and west of me. There are 2 feeders I can see, less than 40 yards from the property line. A guy from Florida bought 400 acres north of me 2 years ago. They have one of those 1000 lb. or more feeders about 100 yards north of our fence, with a big tower blind, ground blind, and ladder stand surrounding it. He said he has two more of those feeders in other areas. Landowner from Georgia to the NE has 3 feeders on 200 acres. The feeders are legal, for now, so I can't say much about that other than they shouldn't put them so close to the property line because they are drawing deer off me that have all the natural feed they need. This really impacts me because they are shooting nice 2-4 yr old bucks who haven't reached full maturity. The Florida owner bragged about his "hunters" shooting 7 bucks last season. The largest barely made 150. The average was around 130. I don't even know what the guys from TX, OK, & GA shot, but this was the first season I didn't see or have pics of at least 2 quality mature bucks. The numbers have been dropping every year for the past 5 years. In that period, I've shot one buck and my son shot 1. Here's a challenge for all who think they are "supplemental feeding"/baiting just to help the deer. Don't put a stand or hunt within 250 yards of your bait stations. You might actually find it's more fun that way.
Thank you for your opinion
Randy, honest question, do you disagree with the potential negatives regarding other species at and around bait sites or do you just not care?
It seems the outfitters, feed sellers and pro baiters just don’t care about other wildlife. All they ever talk about is deer. Antlers and money matter more. Sad times.
Link to presentation, Q&A starts around 43min +/-
Same'ol drivel from the cheaters/outfitters. Interesting threat at the end.
Just so ya’ll know….you have to be present/attend in person for live Q&A at these meetings. There is no interactive remote/Zoom link to watch, ask questions or make comments “live” during the meeting (like Commission Meetings). You have to attend in person. Not sure that will change any over the next year or two?
You make a good point Jason. All these guys yap a lot crap on here but, are a no show when it counts. I Wonder why internet tough guy Kylie wasn’t there telling guys about failure piles, how they are cheaters and not real hunters.
I've been in OK for two weeks working Tadd. But yes you, and they, are failures.
Slate I would say a high majority work jobs and the ability to take off and travel 300 or 400 miles isn't in the cards. That doesn't discredit them from having a voice or concern. Being a lifetime resident and hunter of the state for 50, 60, or 70 years paying taxes, buying a license, attending KDWP meetings or even working for the KDWP counts for a lot. Many of us were attending commission meetings long before the internet days and long before someone from New Jersey had a dream of hunting here. What doesn't matter is the opinion a rainbow flag flying New Jersey resident with limited hunting experience in Kansas.
Wow nice threats at the end. Ok so if you want to do whatever you want with deer. Then I will hire an attorney to lobby the state for any deer hit coming off someone's private property will be liable for all damages from that deer. I'm sure some big insurance companies would be all in on that as well.
Ah finally had one of the State Reps openly admit to their intentions in Topeka publicly.
Those of you from the Clay Center area, you voted him into office, you need to let him know how you feel about his mindset.
Is that even legal? To threaten to pull a million out of their budget m?
Can you guys explain more? I don't know what happened or what was threatened?
Kylie posted the link. Take the time to listen to it Jason.
Thanks sitO! I didn't realize the link is what you all were talking about. Kind of came in after that.
I told you the legislature will get involved and that individual is far from the only one. You are trying to push a rope uphill.
People are tired of the government telling them what they can and can’t do on property they own. A lot of you guys just don’t get it. Take your head out of your liberal asses and stop trying to push your own agenda. The science is a bunch of bullshit. Say what you want but, I listened to the 2 hour meeting. You guys just hate non residents and you think they are the only ones that bate. You guys think if the baiting ends the non residents will stop coming. I haven’t met a nonresident yet that baits.
We've had a lot of dumbasses on this site before, but you take the cake Tadd.
Don't care about NR's, just want them to actually hunt.
Outfitters do the most baiting. I don't hate NR's, I dislike the way that NR hunting is regulated.
Non residents don't bait? Are you insane? You must be to say that out loud. I can show you 50 different leases or ground owned by non residents with several 500lb feeders hell some are over 1000 lbs. Just saw a group of 8 guys from Texas with 40 bags of corn in several shopping carts at Walmart.
Slate, The guy across the creek from me has a 1200# feeder. Guy a mile down the road just built what we initially thought was a pond dam. Turns out it is a dirt wall so people from the road can't see the deer at his feeder. He has a cell cam pointed at every station on the feeder. Guys just south of him have 4 feeders. They are trying to get my neighbor to fill them when they arent up here from MS. He declined and gave them my number, but I have enough going on. I cant think of a single deer lease, resident or nonresident, around here without at least one feeder on it. I really dont care deeply either way.
Wow, that should be illegal (maybe it is, I don't know); for a group of politicians to blatantly threaten a department/agencies funding if they don't do what they want... line item by line item... that is bold. To do it at a public forum is extremely bold!
Lol Slate! I've watched you troll this forum for a long time. Never of post of substance but they keep biting!
there are millions of things you can't do on your own land Todd. Why you worried about this one?
Put it on the ballot and let kansas voters decide!
Why would this be something decided by voters? Wouldn’t that logic mean every wildlife management decision/law should be voted on in a general election?
At this point I wish every deer in Kansas would get cwd and die. I'm so over hearing people think they can own a wild deer because it feeds on there property. If you want to own deer then put a high fence up and buy them like cattle. Why do people only care about deer of trophy potential? I bet if Kansas had no buck over 140 no one would give two shits about the deer herd or baiting or wanting to own it.
KSGobbler, I seen the "pond dam". Its crazy to think about the money spent to kill a deer. Beef isn't near as expensive as corn and dozer work. LOL
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT864UBet/
Don't quit your day job little fella
Kylie when you starting your joke of a live hunt. I can’t wait to follow this year. It will be epic.
Why Tadd, are you writing about me again in your diary? Tell ya what...keep eating your veggies, and drinking your milk...maybe someday you'll be able to hunt like a man too.
"People are tired of the government telling them what they can and can’t do on property they own."
Should you be able to use a rifle during the summer since it is your land? Can you shoot as many deer as you wish? Should you be able to snare a deer?.......Besides being very small your kinda retarded as well.
It is nice to see Frank back after all those Covid boosters that didn't work.......he is still alive and dumb as ever. Breaking bread with professors talking silly with one another.
Todd, you came to this page 4yrs ago or so. Immediately you entered conversations with aggression.
I don't think about you. You occasionally show up with a "dig" at me, or another bowsite member.
The real problem is that you never offer anything substantive. I'd imagine that's a constant in your life.
Do you remember our discussion 2yrs ago, about agreeing not to even address each other? I'll give you a second chance.
Kyle, I came here to this page 4ys ago or so. Immediately I was met with aggression every time I entered a conversation.
I don’t think about you. You show up a lot with a “dig” at me or another Bowsite member who doesn’t agree with you or fit your narrative and agenda.
The real problem is that you are an insecure narcissists. I’d imagine that’s a constant in your life.
Do you remember our discussion 2yrs ago, about agreeing not to even address each other? This is your last chance.
From above…….”this is your last chance.” Michael is ready with his popcorn to see where this is headed?
The threat to strip funds from the KDWP is now in the news. Hoping Bloom, and moreso Corbet, get their "comeuppance"!
Bout time the peasants rise up and show these two pompous, fat jowled airbags how this works.
Sounds like politics as normal.
Unfortunately, I believe our normally biggest advocate against Corbet, is on the same side with him on this one —Rep. Blex. He doesn’t have anything to do with outfitting, but he sees no scientific evidence that baiting hurts the herd. This sucks, because if he’s thinking that way, most everyone else is too. As a former KDWP biologist, I cannot imagine him being for defunding the department though.
Stance aside on baiting, the Department of Wildlife and Parks should not be threatened or blackmailed (no other way to put it) by politicians. Game management should be their concern. It's pretty bold that they would make their threats on a public forum, I wonder how bad it gets behind closed doors?
Well he needs to do some research.
It's now on Yahoo news, and even Reddit
Probably because even the biologist don't all agree one way are the other on the subject.
The majority do, and anyone who can read and comprehend does. Yet the baiters, and poisoners, will fight tooth and nail for their crutch.
KSQ which is exactly why I said from the start if you want baiting banned you have to have a different approach from CWD. It is the worst argument to make if you want baiting banned. As usual, everyone wants to make Kansas game regulations all about deer hunting. The focus on getting trail camera's banned on public land was that constant traffic to trail camera's disrupted the wildlife, especially the young, and exposed them to predators. That needs to be the approach to banning baiting.
There are MANY reasons obviously, disease transmission is just one.
Pinch Point podcast covered the story as well
Nicely done with the podcast.
