Antler Point Restrictions
Contributors to this thread:Wisconsin
From: Jaybee
07-Feb-24
Do you think that antler point restrictions would work in Wisconsin? Does anyone have any first hand experience with this in Pennsylvania? I believe that it would work in the southern part of the state but in the northern forest zone with wolves and winter severity the success would be limited.
From: wihunter86
07-Feb-24
I think that would be a great idea honestly
From: Pete-pec
07-Feb-24
I'd never wish that on anyone, and I'm a person who passes little bucks, but there can only be one reason for it, and that is for growing trophy deer. The evolution of a hunter is normally starting at ground zero, where just a deer is an outstanding day. I'd hate to think of all the people who'd never develop the way most of us did, which is on our own terms, and not others. Like you said, you think it would work in the south, and I'd argue that it is already in place for the most part? The amount of private land, and the amount of trophy hunters already creates that ideology. My neighbors and myself don't do antler restrictions, but we don't shoot young deer either, but if there was someone who wanted to shoot a small buck, I'd congratulate him.
From: MjF
07-Feb-24
I think a good start would be to ban baiting.
From: CaptMike
07-Feb-24
Don't think I'd be in favor of antler restrictions, even though I do pass up a fair number of smaller deer. I'd much more like the approach of educating the public as to what a buck can turn into, given the chance to grow to 5, 6 or 7 yrs of age. I think more hunters would become more selective on their own if they were able to see what that young buck can turn into, given the chance to live a couple extra years.
From: vilascounty
07-Feb-24
I am opposed to antler point restriction. I'd rather take one spike buck each year and get 40 lbs of meat in the freezer than a more impressive buck every other year.
There are antler point restrictions in the UP if you buy the "combo tag". Basically if you want to kill two bucks, you'll have some antler point restrictions.
From: retro
07-Feb-24
I'd never support it. I'm not hunting to make my neighbors dreams come true. I like hunting for older bucks by choice, but if I had neighbors who tried imposing their standards on me, I'd shoot the first spike that walked by... By the same token, I'd never expect my neighbors to have the same goals as I do...
From: Hoot
07-Feb-24
There would be too many shoot now ask questions later.
From: grape
07-Feb-24
We have lost our way with deer hunting. Obviously, this opinion comes from a guy who started hunting in the sixties, so I am outdated; but I am entitled to an opinion.
When I was a kid, after season was over; the first question from anyone who was interested, “Did you get your buck”?
Today, we hear: “What did it score?” “What was the spread?” It makes me cringe!! Deer hunting is an experience every time you hunt. Every deer is a trophy. I owe it to every animal I kill the respect it deserves. If anyone wants to only chase only trophies, I have no problem with that. Go for it, however; it’s not what we should be telling anyone….especially our young hunters.
From: Bricklayer
07-Feb-24
Mjf I believe baiting should be banned but also food plots both congregate deer and the cwd deal that’s never going to change but I have sat on my property and watched deer dive into a food plot on the neighbors land in iron county they went in on the same trails everyday unhuntable deer but it’s big money to the seed suppliers but I say no antler restrictions I too do shoot your deer but I also see vilas point he would rather have 40# of meat in the freezer
From: Pasquinell
07-Feb-24
Kids want and get the icing on the cake before learning about ingredients or how it's made.
From: Bricklayer
07-Feb-24
Exactly Pasquinell
From: Groundhunter
07-Feb-24
Grape. Excellent post
From: Missouribreaks
07-Feb-24
Grape has an excellent perspective.
From: Live2Hunt
07-Feb-24
Grape summed it up for me also.
From: xtroutx
07-Feb-24
Greg, I agree, good post. I enjoy chasing the bigger boys now a days but I have had my fair share of all different size bucks. I shoot whatever seems right at the moment. This year I passed some smaller bucks, two years ago I shot a spike. I am not for antler restictions.
From: DiRTY MiKE
07-Feb-24
Antler point restrictions are stupid as hell. It's pseudo biology. Have fun. Shoot what you want.
From: Ridge Runner
07-Feb-24
Great post Grape , I totally agree
From: Nocturnal II
07-Feb-24
Hunting today has totally changed vs when I began. Most kids today aspire to shoot a big buck. We all did, but a buck was a buck and shooting one, no matter the size, was never regretted. Today, most have an idea on the deer roaming the properties they hunt. Now that cell cameras have exploded amongst the masses. So people set a the bar high and realize that shooting a mature buck takes time, and a different/learned set of skills. Most lower the bar at some point during the season and settle for a younger buck. The mindset of the 60's/70's are gone. Accessing private property has become almost impossible, unless you own or know the person who owns it. Public lands are overrun in the south and overrun by wolves in the north. Most hunters think for themselves vs a management perspective. Piss and moan due to a lack of deer, but whack the first doe that gives them an opportunity. I'm not saying yes to APR's but the topic is definitely debatable.
From: RUGER1022
07-Feb-24
Nope
From: Bricklayer
07-Feb-24
Vilascounty I haven’t been up there all winter due to health what is the deer sign with the easy winter our DNR won’t have weather for one of there reasons for the small herd
From: blackwolf
07-Feb-24
From: blackwolf
07-Feb-24
No. Agree with grape
From: RutnStrut
08-Feb-24
I would rather see some bow only zones in the state. This will never happen though. It's not inclusive enough.
From: Jaybee
08-Feb-24
Jaybee's Link
From: Groundhunter
08-Feb-24
Add to the conversation, from grape, not only today, do they ask " what's he score",, they ask what was his name. since deer now, have to have names,, geesh
From: Hoot
08-Feb-24
Great post grape.
From: lame crowndip
08-Feb-24
No thanks. I hunted a couple of ranches that required 4 on one side. I saw a half dozen monster 3x3 mulies and never saw a 4xwhatever. Pennsylvania can keep their stuff such as dpms, no hunting on Sunday no auto loader rifles. I appreciate taking whatever pleases the hunter. I would wholeheartedly back one buck tag per year and no party hunting. Also make nonresident license fees reciprocal.
From: xtroutx
08-Feb-24
Hey GH, I named one this year. First time I ever named one. He is called Missed Me.
From: Bow Crazy
09-Feb-24
I am a big fan of APRs. Michigan is a good example of a success story, Pennsylvania is too, SE Minnesota is/they may have shut it down. Will it ever happen in Wisconsin, very unlikely. We still have a hunting culture that would rather shoot any buck with antlers, as long as they get their buck. I am not being critical, that is just a fact. It would also take a group of dedicated, highly motivated hunters with a lot of time and money to take on the task. Michigan has that, not sure at this point we do. If you are interest in APRs or QDM start talking to your neighbors and promoting it locally. That is the best way to go for now. BC
From: Live2Hunt
09-Feb-24
MN wrecked there deer hunting when they put the gun hunting during the peak of the rut.
From: xtroutx
09-Feb-24
Their are many hunters that are not as dedicated to big racks as others are. A lot of Wisconsin hunters are happy to have the experience of killing a buck, any buck. A lot of hunters only get limited time to hunt due to family, work, health and so on. For me, to tell those hunters not to shoot what makes them happy would be very selfish of me. If you hunt for big bucks, put the time and effort into finding one. They are around, even on public. When living in Colorado in the 80'S they had an APR on mulies. 4x4 min. I was young and had a new daughter and had to pass on a 3x3 at 10yds. I sure could have used the meat at that time in my life. Not everyone hunts for the same reasons and those reasons can change throughout life. Instead of controlling the deer size, control the wolves and the deer will thrive. For the private land owners, practice what you and your neighbors agree on, but don't hamstring the guy that hunts public and could care less about horn size. JMHO
From: Live2Hunt
09-Feb-24
Well said xtroutx, my feelings exactly.
From: Bricklayer
09-Feb-24
Awesome post xtroutx
From: WI Shedhead
09-Feb-24
Antler point restrictions only take the best genetic deer from the herd and high grade the harvest. Make it one buck per person per year and that would level the harvest across the entire herd, and still leave more bucks on the landscape for those that desire larger antlers
From: WI Shedhead
09-Feb-24
Antler point restrictions only take the best genetic deer from the herd and high grade the harvest. Make it one buck per person per year and that would level the harvest across the entire herd, and still leave more bucks on the landscape for those that desire larger antlers
From: Missouribreaks
09-Feb-24
Agree with trout.
From: retro
09-Feb-24
APR's?...1 buck a year?... So we created all this opportunity (your labeled a selfish elitist if you don't support all of it) and now we want to reduce opportunity? Makes a guy dizzy trying to figure out what people want... Lol...
From: Hoot
09-Feb-24
Rick - Great post. Exactly how I feel.
From: Missouribreaks
09-Feb-24
I hunt in an APR unit. It appears it does work, if horn porn is your main objective. Nevertheless, I am with trout on this one.
From: xtroutx
09-Feb-24
"I am a big fan of APRs. Michigan is a good example of a success story" At the risk of sounding rude, Last time I checked Michigan sells NR licenses and is not far from Wisconsin. Sounds like a golden opportunity if you're interested in APR's. Retro, I agree. Our opportunities are constantly being infringed upon, no need for more.
From: Drop Tine
09-Feb-24
My feelings are exactly like Ricks. Well said!
From: Drop Tine
09-Feb-24
Earn a buck worked great also for upping the age class of bucks on the landscape until abused by the DNR. In the 70’s I could hunt public paper company land around Adam’s Friendship and see 20-30 deer in an afternoon hunt. This is in a woods and not some tree overlooking a ag field. This was also the era of party permits and not the free for all we e seen as of late. When it comes to bucks there appears to be no shortage of trophy class bucks around judging by the amount of photos on facebook each fall. No need to fix what isn’t broke.
From: Tomas
10-Feb-24
Spike bucks are the better tasting deer. I don't want another wall trophy.
From: TonyBear
10-Feb-24
Since two of my family members have 6 pt bucks in P & Y I would be against antler restrictions. Neither one would be legal to shoot in the stupid states and zones that push for 4 on a side.
From: Bow Crazy
11-Feb-24
APRs lead to high-grading of antlers? Maybe, but that's not the entire story. Mississippi State University did a 10 year study on APRs in Mississippi. What they found is that high-grading did occur on large parcels of public lands, but not on private lands. Why, private land hunters are more selective than public land hunters even under APR guidelines.
Speaking of public lands, APRs would allow a hunter on public lands a greater opportunity to harvest mature bucks. Yes, larger antlers for him/her if that what they desire, and more venison
What has happened in other states under APRs is that the first couple of years into the program hunter success rates go down. Year 3 that shifts back to where it was pre-APR. That means now the hunter that has to get his buck is now getting his buck again, but now it is an older age buck, with larger antlers, and more venison too. So, they "suffer" for 2 years or so, then back to normal for them.
Michigan has noticed an increase in doe harvest under APRs. Another tool our CDACs could use in areas of over populations of deer.
It was suggested that if I like Michigan's APRs why don't I go there and hunt. As I stated above, my neighbors and I have created awesome hunting on our lands here in Wisconsin. A QDM program is a better management style than APRs, and that is what we work together on.
There are some downsides to APRs I'm sure. For me, the upside far outweighs the downsides. A QDM program that focus on the Four Cornerstone of Habitat Management, Herd Management, Hunter Management and Herd Monitoring would be much better.
This has been a fun discussion, I've been more on Bowsite in the past week than I have all year. I think we can agree on one thing. We will never see APRs in Wisconsin. For the most part hunters in our state base their definition of a successful hunt on the number of deer they see and if they got their buck. BC
From: Ridge Runner
11-Feb-24
Some very good post Rick
From: LTL JimBow
11-Feb-24
This is 2024 correct ? I thought by now most are selecting only the big ones . Considering the equipment and information now available passing with a high hope for the big guy is something that is real . On the other hand some guys just like shooting a deer, period .
From: Live2Hunt
11-Feb-24
For me I hunt with a recurve on public land. I always try for and look for the mature animals which there used to be one in every area of public. If you are trophy only and not much for venison, you could find and hunt them about anywhere. But for me taking any animal with the weapon I’m using now is my trophy. In the end, I want a good hunt and venison, doe or buck. Nowadays, there are no does and few bucks. You put APR on public forests with the wolf issue, you may as well stop hunting. You can’t shoot a doe, and then limited on bucks you can take the hunt would be gone and would be solely trophy only hunting. This is not what the majority want from there hunt.
From: LTL JimBow
11-Feb-24
The WI public land archery hunt is basically free and provides unlimited access . You can't put a price on be able to roam and have as many options for a hunt as possible . That being said I always wished I could add more to the benefits of a public land hunt . .
From: WI Shedhead
12-Feb-24
Thiers revenue streams out thier to make public land much better, the state just doesn’t choose to go in that direction. Look to places like Missouri for what state lands can be if funds are allocated for improvements
From: WI Shedhead
12-Feb-24
Thiers revenue streams out thier to make public land much better, the state just doesn’t choose to go in that direction. Look to places like Missouri for what state lands can be if funds are allocated for improvements
From: Bow Crazy
12-Feb-24
Bow Crazy's Link
If you are interested in the history of APRs in Pennsylvania, here is a great podcast that walks you through it. They were looking at ways to get hunters to harvest more does, instead of just harvesting bucks. They were open to every option, discussed/study all alternatives and came up with APRs being the best method at their disposal. At the time they harvested more 1 year old bucks than any other state, or were near the top. Similar to where Wisconsin is now, I think we are #3 in the nation now.
Dr. Gary Alt is the guest, the Deer Czar of Pennsylvania. As he walks you through what he went through, you will realize that the odds of APRs in Wisconsin are slim to none. He also address a lot of common misconceptions of APRs, misconceptions of deer habits and biology that he had to overcome as well. It's long, the APR discussion is about the first hour and a half. Enjoy! BC
From: CaptMike
12-Feb-24
BC or any others, are you aware of any hunter satisfaction surveys that have been done after APR's had been implemented for a period of time?
From: Bow Crazy
13-Feb-24
I can find out. There is/was a chart on Michigan results, which of course I can't find now. BC
From: Live2Hunt
13-Feb-24
Harvest more does? You must be just talking private land hunting. In wolf country it is hard to find a doe and you did extremely well to find several.
From: Groundhunter
13-Feb-24
I know it's another state, but MI deer manager, eats and sleeps deer hunting. He got funding and started a Deer Initiative Mgt program, meeting in May. In a nutshell, his present focus is heavily on the UP. He states without reservation, the herd has dwindled the last 20 years. It's the perfect storm. Habitat loss, predator control. We always had some tough winters. But we use to shoot more bears, and allowed for more tags. Trapping has declined. Now you get 2 cat tags, he would issue 4. Coyotes are and always been there. The wolf takes 30 deer a year. His DNR downstate said their count is 671 for the UP. but his field staff for the region believes the number to be close to 2000.. He said we have areas with no does shot for 15 years, and the herd never grew. Loss if habitat and wolves, and alot more bears.
He wants a tax break for private land owners to prevent Hemlock from being cut. No value in it, except for deer. People want more maple for $$$$$.
CWD continues to spread due to game farms and their transportation. not because guys bait in the big woods.
On and on... I get email notices all the time, on deer stuff. Wis not a peep, not from DNR, or any conservation group I belong too.
It's habitat improvement, working with land owners, and predator control.....
He said wolves stress deer out badly in the winters, with heavy snow. Deer expand alot of needless energy, dealing with them.
Wis can shut off doe killing for 5 years, and it will not make a difference, without predation control.
From: Live2Hunt
13-Feb-24
"Wis can shut off doe killing for 5 years, and it will not make a difference, without predation control." Exactly GH. I was surprised to hear about the hemlock and such getting cut down up there in watching a Michigan UP podcast last night. I hunt wolf areas without bad winters and the population still does not improve, only drops. Sad thing is, the current wolf non-control is playing into the anti-hunting groups wants. Nothing to do with wolf numbers or where they are, just so it stops people from hunting, and the DNR's will not fight back.
From: Hoot
13-Feb-24
"Wis can shut off doe killing for 5 years, and it will not make a difference, without predation control. No truer words have ever been spoken GH
From: Bow Crazy
15-Feb-24
This is from the past President of the Michigan State NDA, "Found a DNR presentation that you will love shows that hunter preference for APRs was 68.5% before implementation and 76% 4 years later (they later revised it up to 77%)." It didn't indicate the years, or the DMU.
From Pennsylvania Game and Fish Dept., The proportion of hunters supporting APRs as a statewide regulation prior to implementation and after 3 years remained 60%. The first three seasons of APRs, this was 2002 - 2005 I believe. BC
From: xtroutx
15-Feb-24
Not a big swing but, seems like about 9% increase in hunter satisfaction in Mi. I know some people in the UP (Carny/Powers area) that also like it. I also agree 100% with GH on predator control.
From: dbl lung
15-Feb-24
10 years ago I brought the thought of APRs up on here. There is more support today than there was back then but I don’t see the legislative process supporting it. It won’t work in the whole state either. There are not enough deer in the distant North area of the state. But in the are areas where landowners want to manage for a healthier herd it would work. People who understand shooting does helps is where APRs would benefit. The challenge is getting the people who want to say “I shot a buck” to buy into a more challenging and rewarding hunt after 4 years of APRs. Not all give a crap about antlers, but this is about the health of the herd not antlers. Again, to many deer and we will have a natural disaster like CWD or blue tongue AGAIN. The DNR made the disaster with CWD, we certainly don’t need sharp shooters hunting over bait to kill deer at night.
From: Drop Tine
15-Feb-24
We don’t need more regulations telling us what and where. Much of the southern half of the state is following QDM practices of sorts already on private land which makes up probably 75% of the area so even public land benefits. Someone hunting a 40 isn’t looking for a challenge, they’re hoping for luck that a buck walks past their stand. The only challenge is finding the spot on the 40 that gives the best chance for opportunity. The area of that state that would provide a challenge is void of deer so seeing one presents its own challenge let alone a mature buck.
From: Pasquinell
15-Feb-24
Never understood why a doe is seen as a vermin of sorts. APR will bring boredom also someday when a deers antlers will no longer fit between trees.
The Wensels shot "woody" years ago and everyone had to wear a drool cup when looking at it. Now... hooo hummm... next....
From: Pasquinell
15-Feb-24
This buck was shot 20 years ago and considered a great buck. Fast forward to today and cameras and that same buck would be nice but needs another year or more growth?
Guys posting pics of bucks saying need more bone.... to each there own but I'm excited deer hunting not antler dreaming.
From: dpms
15-Feb-24
In Pennsylvania antler restrictions did increase the average age of our buck herd which resulted in an increase of antler mass on the typical harvested deer. Success rates on antlered deer did go down for a few years but now, the success rates are nearly identical to what they were prior to antler restrictions. As far as high grading, that is a difficult proposition to buy into on large tracts of land that contain both public and private land. The boys in Texas have been "culling" bucks on high fenced ranches that don't meet their antler standards for many decades and undesirable antler traits are still present. With all of that said, I do like antler restrictions for personal reasons and the majority of Pa hunters support them. But, I also understand that some hunters are happy shooting any buck they wish to and I can't argue against that desire. If they are happy, I am happy for them.
From: Hoot
15-Feb-24
From: Hoot
15-Feb-24
More rules and regulations, Hell when we had EAB a guy from the DNR shot a buck and then told us he now had to shoot a doe. He couldn't even understand the simple rules of EAB.
From: Pasquinell
15-Feb-24
Thank you Jim
From: retro
15-Feb-24
APR's would reduce opportunity. Why in the world would they reduce opportunity when they are still creating more opportunity? Would make absolutely no sense...
From: dpms
16-Feb-24
"APR's would reduce opportunity. "
Speaking only froma Pennsylvanian perspective, APRs have not reduced opportunities. Success rates on antlered deer are essentially indentical to what they were prior to APRs. The first year or two of implemenation, success was lower but it did catch back up pretty quickly.
From: retro
16-Feb-24
The "Pennsylvanian perspective" would change if it experienced northern Wisconsin deer hunting. Might as well compare Earth and Pluto...
From: Live2Hunt
16-Feb-24
What is the main goal of APR's? Bigger racks/horn porn/trophy hunting. What is sickening to me is having someone bring me a deer to mount and hear them say someone telling them they should not have shot it and let it get bigger. Why would anyone say that to someone?
From: xtroutx
16-Feb-24
I agree L2H. A few years ago the boys were both here and I shot a spike. They both looked at me kinda funny when they came to my stand. One said "you usually pass at deer like that", I said "I got you 2 to dress it, drag it out, skin it and get the straps out, I will start a fire in the pit". They both laughed and said, well that sounds good. We had a great night. Good memories.
From: Jebediah
17-Feb-24
Wisconsin is a 2-buck state it sounds like? “Just” switch it to one buck, and you have an instant antler restriction, in effect, without punishing those looking exclusively to fill the freezer. Made that argument in Massachusetts (a 2-buck state) for years, although no change resulted, not surprisingly, from some random clown sending emails.
From: TonyBear
17-Feb-24
Someone else's idea of what would constitute a "trophy deer" applied to my definition of a trophy deer, (especially for archery) will never work. If that were true, I would have maybe shot only 2-3 deer in 50 years of bowhunting. Until the DNR manages all species including wolves, APR is really useless. Personally, I still think of it as catering to the head hogs or horn porn in the attempt to legislate someone a "trophy" deer. Bring back "every deer is a trophy with a bow" and management similar to what McCaffery used. WI is not PA, MI or IA, MO, et al. It's the unique state of WI-treat it as such.
From: Pasquinell
17-Feb-24
Tony x2
From: CaptMike
17-Feb-24
One of the unique things about present day WI is having a DNR that does not seem to value the whitetail deer as the great resource it is.
From: xtroutx
17-Feb-24
So true Capt.
From: retro
17-Feb-24
Isn't the DNR required to manage according to what the legislature tells them? In alot of cases, aren't there hands tied from making changes? Seasons, weapons, wolves, treaty rights, etc....
From: Groundhunter
17-Feb-24
There was a time when our DNR, deer managers, ate and slept deer and it's mgt. Not today, pretty sad. Private land owners do more to improve the herd. I see John Plenke, retired warden DNR, wrote an article on how disappointed he was to see the lack of interest in Hunter Safety anymore by his old agency. Wis is not headed in the right direction
From: CaptMike
17-Feb-24
Retro, they are required to manage resources for all of the public, not just for hunters. As in all politics, who actually does the managing is far more important than what they are “supposed” to do.
From: grape
18-Feb-24
And again……”It’s not what you know , it’s who you know”!
From: Pasquinell
18-Feb-24
Groundhunter it's more than just Wisconsin heading in wrong direction but understand what you're saying.
From: retro
18-Feb-24
I agree the DNR is suppose to manage for everyone. If you watch the NRB meetings and the public comments time, you get a taste of how many different groups and people are trying to steer the ship. In today's world, hunters and fisherman's voices are diminished among many others. There's a whole lot of people out there who don't believe in any kind of game management. Let nature take its course... The future is bleak for sportsman even if your an eternal optimist.
From: happygolucky
18-Feb-24
I live in WI but own land in the UP and do most of my hunting there. I do like the way MI does things with APRs. It is a 1 buck state and I am totally fine with that. A person can kill 2 with a combo tag and those use APRs. For 1 buck, it needs 3 or more pts on one side and the 2nd buck needs 4+pts on one side. So, if a person wants to kill 2 bucks, they can , but they need to choose the combo tag. Otherwise, you get 1 buck of your choice. I used to buy a combo tag. Only once did I use both tags. I no longer buy a combo tag. We have plenty of does where I am at and can get my venison via a doe if needed. Killing 1 buck per season is not an issue to me. The cool part about the combo tag is that both buck tags are good in any deer season. In the LP of MI, where there is CWD, the combo tag can be used on does too.
From: Deets
18-Feb-24
Hello Jim What county are you hunting in the UP? Did or do you hunt in the Bond Falls area one more are wolves a big problem in your area in the UP like here in central Wisc.
From: Live2Hunt
19-Feb-24
I saw Dan the hunting beast got a taste of WI wolf country. He went to scout Clark County and was displeased of the lack of sign. Not much for rubs or any deer activity. Pretty much described the whole north half of the state.
From: Nocturnal II
19-Feb-24
Glad to see you make an appearance Happy! Hope everything is going well for you!
From: MjF
19-Feb-24
Live2Hunt ya I just texted him and he said “lots of wolves”
From: Nocturnal II
19-Feb-24
Clark and Jackson are covered in wolves. I had a discussion in person with the agent of Jackson county this fall and he told me the county has about 30 wolves. I said absolutely no way is that an accurate number. I can account for 2 separate packs close to where my cabin is, as they howl on an almost nightly basis. Trail camera photos indicate these are separate packs unless we are talking a pack of 13 in a 3 Mile Square. Today, science believes that a single wolf kills roughly 30 deer a year. Knowing what the population use to be, in combination with mild winters Jackson has had. It makes no sense to be only 30 wolves. The population didn't fall until wolves were back on the landscape.
From: Bricklayer
19-Feb-24
Noct what did he say when you told him about your camera pic
From: Nocturnal II
19-Feb-24
He politely listened but stood his ground with his response. He even spoke about the deer populations in Bayfield being higher than what hunters are precieving. As he spent 6 months in Bayfield. I asked him if he was speaking on private lands vs public and his response was no, both.
From: Live2Hunt
20-Feb-24
MjF, I figured he knew that, but why didn't he say anything about the wolves? As he stated and seen, all sign around there is old because the deer are gone and won't come back because of the wolves.
