Excited for Turkey Season
Contributors to this thread:Kansas
From: Matte
27-Feb-24
You know what you do not see on my photos? You dont see coons, cats, or coyotes. You do get to see Turkey. I figure we have close to 100 using the property right now.
From: Kansan
27-Feb-24
They definitely had a better hatch in my part of the state than they have in a long time. Great to see!
From: Dale06
27-Feb-24
Good luck on the gobblers Matte. I’ll be chasing easterns in Mn, and Merriams in SD.
From: crestedbutte
27-Feb-24
Upcoming turkey season could be promising in your neck of the woods!! On the property that I hunt, my past experience is the local flock tends to hang around and roost there in the Spring but typically roost 1/2 - 1 mile down the same creek in the Winter. Will hope that flock pictured is still hanging around your place come Spring. Good Luck!
From: Deerdummmy
27-Feb-24
Nice winter flock
Nice winter flock
From: crestedbutte
27-Feb-24
Wow....that is a HUGE corn pile????
From: Kansasclipper
27-Feb-24
Aflatoxin poisoning at its finest.
From: Buckdeer
28-Feb-24
Aflatoxin poisoning, I doubt it as very rarely does that occur unless alot of wet grain.Haven't even had to test for it in several years.If it was it would be killing livestock also as it goes to the same place from elevators.
From: sitO
28-Feb-24
sitO's Link
For the millionth time Randy, listen to the experts on this podcast. You are NOT a Biologist.
From: bentstick54
28-Feb-24
Thanks for sharing Kyle. I just listened to the entire podcast, and was glad I did. At least someone is at least doing some controlled studies and not just off of gut feelings. Predators have been at the top of my thought list, with Aflatoxin maybe a close 2nd or 3rd.
While aflatoxin may not be in the corn when you buy it, it can develop once at the feeder site depending on conditions. And I’m betting the toxicity of it in ppm to a turkey is probably different than ppm to cattle?
I also wonder how much new seed coatings might be effecting turkey poults, and even future fertility of the birds.
From: crestedbutte
28-Feb-24
Dear Dummy......your pic. above is dated 1/15/24 with snow on the ground. Do you mind providing us a more recent trail cam pic. of that same location?
From: Kansasclipper
28-Feb-24
With snow on the ground, sub zero temps, and a golden corn pile, every turkey in a 10 mile radius will be grouped up together. 15 year ago that pic would have been of 150 turkeys. 2 dozen turkeys over a corn pile in those weather conditions show how bad our turkey population is. Come April, those turkey will be spread out over 2 counties. Good luck.
From: Ksgobbler
29-Feb-24
https://www.refugeforums.com/threads/disappointment-of-kansas-turkey-draw.1103807/
From: crestedbutte
29-Feb-24
Matt…more duck hunting talk than turkey talk???
From: sitO
29-Feb-24
There were leftover tags so...
From: Buckdeer
29-Feb-24
My point is that just because someone has a degree it doesn't make them an expert if they haven't tested to see what is causing the issue, just as many people with the same degrees have a different theory.I know states that feed deer and elk and pay people with horse pulled sleds to do it in big wintering yards. Whats the difference,it's hay instead of corn or protein feed?Very few experts believe that feed was what killed the turkeys out. I would bet that seed covering chemicals probably cause more issues and could be with the viability of eggs even and when only 3% of all tom turkeys that hatch make it to 3 years old when you have something reduces how many eggs are laid that can make a difference.Habitat is a big deal also.I have had hens lay under my apple trees 2 years in a row.What are the chances even 1 egg will hatch when out in the open like that but theres nothing you can do to stop it.
From: sitO
29-Feb-24
Ok, so did you listen to the discussion?
From: Buckdeer
29-Feb-24
Yours or everyone elses?I have listened to 3 or 4 different ones.The only facts that seems everyone agrees on is that the prions will stay in soil for long periods of time and no one knows how to stop CWD.They do think that some deer get an immunity to it after getting it just like with EHD.You're right neither of us are biologist and the ones I believe may have a different opinion than yours but that doesn't make yours right.I also doubt if feed hurts turkeys.So basically you think feeding hurts hunting tradition.
From: Slate
29-Feb-24
Getting a lot of turkey pics on several different cameras. Thank goodness I have a healthy population on my property.
From: sitO
29-Feb-24
The discussion isn't just about CWD Randy, that why you need to hear it. Tell ya what, you post a discussion that supports baiting for turkeys and I'll read/listen.
From: Buckdeer
29-Feb-24
Sorry guess I lost you,never heard a discussion about baiting turkeys,W&P depts all over country do it to trap them.Didn't know it was a big issue
From: sitO
29-Feb-24
So are they trapping them in the same spot everyday 365 days a year? Yes, someone is lost.
From: Kansasclipper
01-Mar-24
It doesn't take a biologist to understand that the negatives of baiting far outweigh the positives. There simply isn't one positive that wildlife can gain from a bait pile. This isn't northern Canada. We had one week of cold weather this winter and one snow storm of less than 10 inches. Very mild. And Kansas has 21 million acres of cropland for food plus what nature provides. Baiting benefits greedy men only. It congregates animals to a very small area to be shot or filmed.
From: crestedbutte
01-Mar-24
Jeff…that is one of the best “short” summations that pretty much covers the majority of CONS of this issue that I have seen. Well done, Sir!!!!
From: Slate
09-Mar-24
From: Buckdeer
11-Mar-24
It's still your personal beliefs which in America you are entitled to.
From: Thornton
11-Mar-24
Saw 7 hens on my place today whilst driving the mower around looking for sheds.
From: Slate
16-Mar-24
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
From: Kansasclipper
17-Mar-24
Talked to the biologist at Cedar Bluff a couple of days ago and he filled me in on the big study into what is happening to the turkey population. They have collared several turkeys on the lake property. He said they had close to 350 on the property 5 years ago and are down to about 150 today. He said it will be one of the largest studies ever launched into the wild turkey. I drew a unit 4 tag but I don't think I will hunt. The one place and the best place that I hunt and know of it out here has about 13 birds on the property. I could put out a trail camera there and post pictures all day, but it won't change the fact that there are very few turkeys out here left. One property that held over 300 birds 8 years ago doesn't not have a bird on it. It just happens to be leased by the largest Outfitter here in Kansas and they haul in corn by the semi truck load. A friend of mine owns the property that borders it and has not seen a turkey on it in several years.
From: Thornton
17-Mar-24
They need to shut down the outfitters. There's one here in Butler County shooting dozens of gobblers a year. I'm not seeing or hearing any gobblers and I'm up every morning at dawn.
From: ksq232
17-Mar-24
Clip, is there much baiting that goes on in the neighboring land to the public there at Cedar Bluff? I didn’t see many feeders out that way when we hunted Cedar Bluff the fall before last. But I know out west feeders are often replaced by big piles that I wouldn’t have been able to see from the road.
From: Quailhunter
17-Mar-24
Place I hunt down here in Osage county Ok had tons of birds back in the mid 2000s. There were three jakes and four hens on it last year. Haven’t checked it this year. Did get a report from north central Ok that the hatch was very good last summer.
From: Kansasclipper
17-Mar-24
I don't know about baiting around the lake. I would say those birds stay pretty confined to the lake property which is why they have some left. He did mention influenza but he said they just don't know what is happening. Did you hunt deer or turkeys out here?
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
The turkey population on my property seems to be holding strong for the last 15 years. Kill a few toms off of it each year but that’s it.
From: ksq232
17-Mar-24
We deer hunted Clip. It was a rough go, there were deer there, fresh sign was abundant. They were nocturnal I’m sure. Pressure was disappointing, but we were there causing some of it. We left early and hunted on some friend’s ground in Mitchell County and saw lots of deer; no shots fired though, which is pretty normal for me. Lol
From: sitO
17-Mar-24
"Kill a few toms off of it each year but that’s it."...made me lol
From: Kansasclipper
17-Mar-24
I lived 20 minutes south of Cedar Bluff and spent my share of time there years ago. 25 years ago I could walk for 30 minutes and find a dozen sheds on Cedar Bluff. Not much pressure back then just resident hunters. Now a good portion of it is youth only. Then Guy Eastman shot the big mule deer there and pressure exploded. I still love it there and want to own a house there someday. Wish I would have done it before covid. The last house that was for sale there went for around $650,000. There is a 251 acres piece of ground for sale a couple of mile from the property I have permission to hunt. I inquired about it and found out they are asking $1,175,000 for it. Just when I got to a point in my life where I thought I could afford something. Almost $4700 per acre for hunting ground.
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
Kyle what’s the issue? What’s so lol? Thought we made a deal but, if you are ready to have fun again I’m a go.
From: sitO
17-Mar-24
How big is the property, round about?
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
Kyle I have absolutely no interest talking to you. I ignore you with no issues as you asked. So tell me what’s it going to be?
From: sitO
17-Mar-24
"Deal"? You have no honor and broke that agreement many times. Point was made.
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
Don’t F-up again Kyle. I know you like doing your live hunts without interruption's. You won’t be so lucky this year if so.
From: sitO
17-Mar-24
Oh geez, as if anyone cares
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
You do. It’s just entertainment for the rest of us. I live in your head Kyle that’s the best part. If I didn’t you wouldn’t say a word to me. Until next time.
From: sitO
17-Mar-24
Again, my point was made.
From: Slate
17-Mar-24
It was lol
From: Thornton
19-Apr-24
Went out for 1 hour opening evening and sat in my deer stand to avoid ticks. Did not call a single time, and shot a Jake as they walked by with my 100 year old Belgian made 16 gauge. He should smoke up real nice.
From: Slate
19-Apr-24
Very nice congratulations
From: DGW
19-Apr-24
Nice picture, Congrats that is a awesome looking shotgun!
From: sitO
19-Apr-24
Cool "piece" JT
From: Buckdeer
19-Apr-24
The turkeys started dying in the early spring right around shed season may 8-10 years ago.I talked to people in 3 different counties that found them while shed hunting.I even called KDWP and it just crept across the country it seemed.I doubt if collaring a few turkeys is one of the biggest studies as they have been doing huge studies in the southern states for several years.Probably all they had to do was test one of the dozen or so we found dead or dying.
From: sitO
19-Apr-24
Or ban feeders
From: Dale06
19-Apr-24
I’ve bow hunted turkeys in southern South Dakota almost every year since the late 90s. It used to be easy to see a hundred plus birds a day. But the numbers steadily declined to a small fraction of that amount about 5-7 years ago. Last year the guy in SD that I hunt with told me not to come, because of the low bird numbers. He contacted me a month ago, and said come and hunt this year. I’m headed there tomorrow. I’ve not heard the cause of the huge decline in turkeys in SD, and expect it’s not known. I’ve not seen any evidence of baiting there in my 20 some odd trips there over the years and I’ve hunted on numerous private properties. And baiting is not legal there. I hope the cause of the sharp decline in turkey numbers is determined and can be reversed.
From: Buckdeer
19-Apr-24
I agree with you Dale,kind of like saying feeders caused the quail die off.He has the same answer for everything just no proof.
From: sitO
19-Apr-24
Lots of proof, you're just unwilling to listen
From: sitO
19-Apr-24
From: keepemsharp
19-Apr-24
Nice shot Kyle.
From: Quailhunter
19-Apr-24
Are we now suggesting.feeders are the issue with Bobs and turkeys? Sigh……
From: Bwhnt
20-Apr-24
That barrel looks long. Congrats
From: sitO
20-Apr-24
Aaron, listen to the podcast above(posted Feb 28th).
From: Quailhunter
20-Apr-24
Will do
From: Thornton
20-Apr-24
I have a theory about bird die offs in general, and I think the Chinese are at fault. Quite a few years back I went to buy my annual load of generic Roundup at the weed department and was astonished to hear what the prices had gone up to. Found out the herbicide plants had shut down for the Beijing Olympics and prices had skyrocketed. Now we know for a fact that those SOB communists have been jacking with us for decades. I think they put some shit in the herbicide that goes on our corn that is killing everything. We already know that it renders certain insects sterile. The level 1 trauma center I've worked the last year is also a cancer center, and I see more people and farmers with cancer than I ever imagined possible. It's so bad, I'm going to stop buying vegetables unless they're organic. I've noticed that turkeys seem to be thriving in areas away from cropland. I found tracks all over the mountains in Utah in areas thick with cougars, bears, coyotes, and occasional birds of prey. They are doing really well in the orchards of western Colorado as well.
From: KB
21-Apr-24
Recently listened to the KS BHA podcast with Kent Fricke. Had some good tidbits. He said they consider a 33% nest success rate pretty good long term. But something only as low as 25% might not be sustainable. Numbers are off 60% since 2007. With what we learned about nest/feed site predation, predator numbers, aflatoxin health affects, etc. last year, it’s certainly reasonable to think removing feed sites could make a significant difference. Carrying over just a few more hens here and there may be enough to turn it around. Other than season lengths and limits, which largely don’t affect hens anyway, there really isn’t an easier tool at their disposal than to ban corn piles.
From: keepemsharp
21-Apr-24
Sito is right.
From: Quailhunter
21-Apr-24
Downloaded it and listened while I mowed today. Definitely interesting info. I’m asking because I seriously don’t remember but was baiting a thing in early 2000s? That’s what I kind of compare my turkey hunting to when I tell my son about how good it was.
Not a proponent of baiting but what I gleaned from the aflatoxin discussion was it’s much higher in high humidity settings. Do folks keep feeders full during all summer? IMO it’s a combination of several things together and the corn feeders could very likely be a contributing factor along with habitat, over harvest, etc….. no smoking gun.
Oh yea, I shot a big ol jake today. Second time I’ve called up the jake gang so let one have it. I’m ready for crappie on the bank anyway. Fried turkey for dinner this week.
From: sitO
21-Apr-24
I can't say, nor can anyone else, that feeders are the sole reason for decline in any species. However, If getting rid of feeders meant 1 more turkey, or the chance that my nephews/nieces got to experience an inkling of what we did...then it's an easy decision.
There's nobody on this forum that needs a bait pile to kill an animal, nobody with a conscience.
Congrats on the turkey, and I hope you get "crappie thumb"!
From: Quailhunter
21-Apr-24
Agreed. Had a Tom in there Wednesday but the Jakes were chasing him around. May take my son or daughter a time or two but ready for spawning crappie.
From: Kansan
22-Apr-24
For whatever reason, the birds finally had a good hatch in my part of Kansas this past spring/summer. 10 years ago, I would’ve put our turkey hunting up against anyone. It’s gotten pretty dismal in recent years. This season, though, there is a marked increase in the number of birds on the landscape. Mostly birds of the year, but it’s good to see good sized gaggles of jakes running around again.
From: KB
22-Apr-24
In the podcast Kent said drought in the eastern part of the state is excellent for turkeys. One silver lining I suppose.
From: Buckdeer
22-Apr-24
I am wondering if theres something else going on with birds in the Kansas area.Friday evening I was cutting down a tree and had been running the saw for a few minutes and turn around to go to truck and took a couple of steps and looked down and a dove was sitting there.Reached over and touched with my boot and he flew off.Saturday i was turning truck and noticed a dove sitting on the ground and I had to turn sharper to keep from running over it and this was 1/2 mile apart.Thats kind of the way the turkeys were when I first started finding them dead or dying that first year.If it wasn't for the time of year I first started finding turkeys I would say it could be from seed coating which is what alot thought caused decline of quail.
From: Trebarker
22-Apr-24
I'm in an area that from around 2000- 2016/2017, there were winter flocks of 200-400 birds seen about every 4-5 miles. I have not seen that since. I've had trail camera pictures of strutting toms every spring since I first had the cameras which has been a very long time. This spring so far, this tom shown in the picture is the only turkey I've gotten a picture of, he looks very lean. I had a late hatch show up last year, had pictures of them last summer/early fall with momma, have not seen them since. I've written about the lack of songbirds, quail, turkey in the deer woods for several years in my hunt threads. The most obvious things that have changed in my time bowhunting for the last 40 years; increased pesticide and herbicide use, GM seeds, wildlife feeders, increased hunting pressure, and commercialized hunting operations near my hunting spots. None of these things existed when I first started hunting with a bow. I hunted prairie chickens like quail back in the 80's, walking them up out of pastures mid-day. We routinely flushed 200-300 chickens up walking just 100-200 yards into one pasture. We limited out every time we went there, 4 hunters, 8 birds, twice a season. We never saw a decline in the flock size from year to year, until the season when we walked the pasture finding no birds and not a single nest. Nothing physically changed around the property, it is the same as it was in the 70's when we first started hunting there. All of the property for miles around it is the same as well, the only difference is increased use of pesticides and herbicides on the farm fields around it that birds ate from. They are planted with GM seed to allow for the GENOCIDE sprays being used. Birds eat grain and bugs/worms. You spray their food with poison, they get poisoned or starve to death when the bugs they rely on for protein aren't there. JMHO
From: Quailhunter
22-Apr-24
Yes! Not just gamebirds. Birds in general.
From: Tejas
22-Apr-24
All of the property for miles around it is the same as well, the only difference is increased use of pesticides and herbicides on the farm fields around it that birds ate from. They are planted with GM seed to allow for the GENOCIDE sprays being used. Birds eat grain and bugs/worms. You spray their food with poison, they get poisoned or starve to death when the bugs they rely on for protein aren't there. JMHO
Very good observation!
From: Trebarker
23-Apr-24
Bird feeder seed is grain that would not meet human food grade standards, same with "deer corn" packaged up in a fancy bag with big bucks printed on the bag. That is typically grain from the bottom of the bin, damaged grain that came in extreme high in moisture content, grain cut too early- was not fully mature, damaged broken grain, grain stored outdoors in the weather, moldy dust laden grain, grain that other food processors and ethanol plants would decline.
Bird seed is GM modified grain covered in chemical poisons used for weeds and insect damage prevention.
From: Kansan
23-Apr-24
No farming in my area, yet turkey numbers dropped precipitously here, too. The Deep South has seen the worst declines, often in areas of big timber, with no agriculture around for miles. On the other hand, states like Iowa and Wisconsin have some of the strongest turkey populations these days, and also lots of ag. It may be part of the story, but it’s definitely not the whole picture. Turkey numbers have plummeted across the majority of their entire range. Guys down south blame pigs. It’s probably a multitude of factors at play. Being such a huge drop widespread over such a large area, I would bet disease has played a significant role in the whole thing.
But, this year, there are more turkeys around in my area than there has been for the better part of a decade. Hopefully the trend continues.
From: cherney12
23-Apr-24
Imagine there was widespread disease that knocked the numbers down big time 10 years ago and now the carrying capacity in most places is much lower due to the GMO crops and all the spraying of insects.
